Abstract
Trinity Cathedral is the Cathedral of the Episcopal Diocese of Ohio and is located in downtown Cleveland.This is an interview about the history of the church in Cleveland from the beginning of its' first structure in 1829 to the present structure consecrated in 1907. The Bifanos give some background to the history of the area and how it relates to the growth of Trinity. Throughout the course of the interview there is discussion related to the previous buildings but the focus is on the present Trinity Cathedral with its' Gothic design. There is also discussion related to the detail of the inside architecture and symbolic meaning related to some of the work and design. There are other discussions related to the congregation and changes to it over the years. Toward the end of the interview, focus is more on the services provided and recent structural changes to make what is now Trinity Commons.
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Interviewee
Bifano, Martha (interviewee); Bifano, Wayne (interviewee)
Interviewer
Valore, Kenneth (interviewer)
Project
Sacred Landmarks
Date
8-3-2011
Document Type
Oral History
Duration
46 minutes
Recommended Citation
"Martha and Wayne Bifano Interview, 2011" (2011). Cleveland Regional Oral History Collection. Interview 127009.
https://engagedscholarship.csuohio.edu/crohc000/371
Transcript
Ken Valore [00:00:24] My name is Ken Valore. I’m joined by Martha Bifano and Wayne Bifano to conduct an interview for the Center for Public History and Digital Humanities to document the history of Trinity Cathedral. The interview is being held at Trinity Cathedral, located at 2200 Euclid Avenue. To start, could everybody please state your name and affiliation with the congregation?
Martha Bifano [00:00:59] Martha Bifano. I’m a parishioner here at Trinity Cathedral.
Wayne Bifano [00:01:04] I’m Wayne Bifano. I’m a parishioner at Trinity Cathedral as well.
Ken Valore [00:01:11] Okay. And whenever you’re talking, if you can, I’ll just ask you by name. So how long has this congregation been in Cleveland?
Martha Bifano [00:01:27] The history of the church, Trinity Church, goes back to the year 1816. So if you put that in context of the time that Moses Cleaveland sent out her surveyors, he sent them out in the year 1796. So just 20 years later, a group of men met in the home of Phineas Shepard and created Trinity Parish.
Ken Valore [00:01:55] And can you tell us something about the history of the community? Anything else? How it grew?
Martha Bifano [00:02:07] The parish did grew up, and their first structure was created in the year 1829. And it was a small, clappered, white wooden structure. And the area of Cleveland was beginning to grow with the setting there of both the river, the Cuyahoga River, and Lake Erie. The first structure burned down, and then the second Trinity was created in downtown Cleveland just off of Public Square. And I don’t know how many people. The whole area of Cleveland at that time was growing, and more and more families were living here in downtown. By the mid-1850s, the church realized. Trinity Church realized that it was, at that time, starting to outgrow its space. And a few years later, Trinity was approached to become the Episcopal Diocese. They were asked if Trinity Parish, Trinity Church, would be the home of the Diocese of Ohio. And at that time, then an architect was engaged to build what is now Trinity Cathedral.
Ken Valore [00:03:44] Just out of curiosity, you said the church, the original church, burned down. Where was that in relation to Public Square ? Was that farther west?
Martha Bifano [00:03:57] The location of the first one was at the corner of St. Clair and what was then called Seneca, which is now West Third. So again, it was very close to what we now know as, you know, Public Square downtown.
Ken Valore [00:04:11] And then the second church, was it actually Public Square?
Martha Bifano [00:04:13] Just off. Just off. It was at Superior and 6th.
Ken Valore [00:04:18] Okay. Where did the original founders come from?
Martha Bifano [00:04:33] They were from the east, if you will. Phineas Shepard was a Revolutionary War soldier. And as many of them did, at the end of the War for Independence, there was a movement to Head to the west, if you will. And so most of them were coming from what we now know as New England.
Ken Valore [00:05:05] This was the Western Reserve. So it was.
Martha Bifano [00:05:07] Right, you want to speak a little bit about their Western Reserve.
Wayne Bifano [00:05:12] The Western Reserve was identified as the Western Reserve of Connecticut. And in 1796 or earlier, the central government of the U.S. decided that we didn’t want a governing body, such as a state with territories, but rather a state with states. We wanted a federation. And so the states that owned property out here and Connecticut being the one that had Western Reserve, were asked to surrender that so that there could be a development of individual states.Now, that would be called part of the Northwest Ordinance. The southern portion of the state belonged to Virginia. At the time it was called Virginia Militia. And for that term phrase, rather, it was the giving of land to men who worked or fought in the Revolutionary War. Now, the only state that was reticent about giving up their land was Connecticut. They didn’t want to give up their land. And the portion would be 120 miles along Lake Erie from the border, the western border of Pennsylvania, and between the 41st and 42nd parallel. There were a few minutes included in that. Ultimately, in 1796, Connecticut did surrender the land. And the central government asked that the land before it were sold be surveyed in five mile by five mile squares and. And divided into four quadrants with a road going from north to south and east to west so that they could sell the land. So the party that first came out was headed by Moses Cleaveland. And ultimately they did sell off the land. The western portion of the west of the Cuyahoga River was the land that was really most desirable, but also the most threatening because it had Iroquois settlements there. The eastern side of the Cuyahoga was not threatening as far as the Native Americans, but it was threatening because of the terrain. It was rocky. It had rainforest, hardwood trees and so forth because of the amount of water. And there would be flooding and also malaria. Malaria was very, very common here. So that became the problem of where are they going to sell off? But that’s part of the- But actually, interesting enough, what was detrimental in the beginning became very advantageous later on because the water was part of the Industrial Revolution and the mills and so forth. So that became a very definite asset to people who were moving out from the New England areas.
Ken Valore [00:08:24] Okay, now, if you would, let’s just focus on the church structure. If we were standing outside looking towards the church, how would you describe the impression?
Martha Bifano [00:08:43] Well, traditionally, the way a church is supposed to be centered and oriented. The altar of a church is supposed to face to the east, east toward Jerusalem, east toward the rising sun. But we believe that part of the topography of the plot of land here, and also the fact that. That many of the benefactors to the building of Trinity Cathedral were part of the millionaires that lived on Millionaires’ Row. So they wanted the entrance to come off of Euclid Avenue and walk up several flights of stairs into this Gothic church. So as you approach from Euclid Avenue up into the area, before you enter the double doors, you will feel as though you have stepped into a medieval church, as though you were on some European tour and you might be in Germany, you might be in France, and especially you might be in England. So you walk into the structure and you are immediately struck by the size of it, the magnitude. And the choice of a Gothic structure was intentional because with a Gothic building, your eyes are immediately drawn up toward the top of the building, in essence, up toward heaven. So as we are down here on the main floor and looking up, we are in our earthly life looking up towards heaven.
Wayne Bifano [00:10:35] As you walk into the church, you’re seeing a very large cross. The nave or the center where the lay person sits is called the nave, or another way of saying a ship. If you look at the ceiling, you’ll see a vaulted ceiling which looks like an inverted ship. It has any number of explanations for that. One is that the ark is the way that mankind survived. And so this is reminiscent of the ark. It also means the church is the vessel that sails around the world, bringing salvation. And as you look toward the altar, that’s the head of the cross. And then the transepts, or the two sides with stained glass windows. At each side are the arms that cross. And this is called a cruciform form of architecture.
Ken Valore [00:11:37] There’s a tower. Did it or does it have a bell in it?
Martha Bifano [00:11:42] Yes, there is a bell in the bell tower. And generally it’s not struck. They don’t ring the bell. On Sunday, we are called to worship by chimes within the church, but there isn’t a bell in the bell tower. And occasionally they do use that.
Ken Valore [00:12:04] You mentioned that one part, the chapel part of that was really from the previous church?
Martha Bifano [00:12:14] Right. There is as you are facing the altar and you are facing to the south, to the right or to the west, there is a small chapel. And that again is very traditional. Both in the Roman church as in an Episcopal church or cathedral, sometimes they are referenced as the Mary Chapel, the mother of Jesus. And we do indeed have a chapel Here. And many of the artifacts and or pieces that are in the chapel are from that second building that is referenced by those of us at Trinity as Old Trinity. And that was the one that was at Superior in East 6th Street. So many of the things that are in that chapel were brought along. And again, that’s part of the Episcopal tradition, is that we carry and we keep our traditions and we take our things along with us to the. To our next place.
Ken Valore [00:13:22] Could you basically describe more about the interior of the church?
Martha Bifano [00:13:31] As I mentioned, it is a Gothic church. And one of the ways that you can tell a Gothic structure is that all of the arches come to a point and again, that is specific to. Again, to make your eyes go upward, we have an area that’s called the clerestory. And again, the reason for change, choosing the Gothic structure was so that we could have greater height and therefore have a building that could support the very large windows, of which we have three that you can see here at Trinity Cathedral. At one time, when the building was dedicated, and that was in the year 1907, in September, the structure opened up with pews that were fixed in place, and just a few years ago, those were taken out so that we could change the configuration and the utilization of the cathedral itself.
Wayne Bifano [00:14:53] The stained glass windows tell the story of the life of Christ. So if you start in the transept to the right, you will find the Nativity window with three supporting smaller stained glass windows below it. And they are the teaching of the Torah by St. Anne to her daughter, the Virgin Mary. And the middle one is a presentation of Jesus to his cousin, John the Baptist. And the last one is the visitation when the Virgin Mary visits her cousin Elizabeth, the mother of St. John. Next to that, to the right of that, is a small baptistery. And the baptistery goes back to a medieval concept of separating the baptismal group from the people who are members of the church until they were. Until the catechumens, as they are called, were trained in the rites of the church once they were brought into the church so they could join people. In the nave, in that baptistery is a font going back to Old trinity, which has 10 stones from the Jordan River, which were given by the Mather family. When you walk down the ambulatory, which is the length of the cathedral on the east, the west side, you find that there is the life of Christ as a child in glass or in stained glass. And when you come up the other side from the west side of the nave, you find the ministry of Christ in the transept to the left is the crucifixion and entombment of Jesus. It’s done in griseum, which is a silver etching and it’s from the 15th century German city of Cologne in that, the large window in that transept is the resurrection window with three supporting smaller windows at the base, including St Thomas touching the side of Jesus, the travelers on the way to Emmaus, and three women coming to the tomb to find the empty tomb. Over the main altar is the. It’s called the Te Deum window and that means we praise you, O Lord. And it has the history of the church.
Ken Valore [00:17:47] Original altar.
Martha Bifano [00:17:53] Right. What we reference as the high altar, the original altar here at Trinity Cathedral. It weighs 8 1/2 tons of Italian marble.
Wayne Bifano [00:18:09] Pavonazzo.
Martha Bifano [00:18:10] Pavonazzo marble. And it was set in place. And then once it was set in place, then the intricate carving that appears both on the front, which you can see, and also on the backside, which we just being in the church, are not able to see. This intricate design and work was done by artisans and artists who were mostly immigrants, many of whom probably did not speak English. But the work that they were doing here in the cathedral, they realized that they were in a sacred space and in a sacred spot. So we had the stone carvers and masons, we had artisans that were doing additional carving. We had woodworkers and workmen that were creating very ornate wood carvings as well. So we had an interesting juxtaposition of the people that were working here on the cathedral to build it and to create it and the gifts that they were bringing. And then we had the philanthropy of the people that were making it possible financially to create Trinity Cathedral. I’d like to, if I could, for a moment talk a little bit about the man who is the architect here of Trinity Cathedral. He was already quite well known and established here in Cleveland. He was a friend of the Samuel and Flora Stone Mather family, and his name was Charles Schweinfurth. And Mr. Schweinfurth today still has many existing buildings and places that have the wonderful mark of Charles Schweinfurth. So he was chosen partly, I believe, because of his connection with Samuel Mather. Mr. Schweinfurth created some of the mansions that were on millionaires row here in Cleveland. He did the reconstruction and redo of Old Stone Church after they had had a fire there. And Old Stone Church was the church of Flora Stone Mather. Mr. Schweinfurth originally had designed a Romanesque building structure here for Trinity Cathedral. But Bishop William Leonard and the governing body, which is called a vestry in the Episcopal Church, determined that they really wanted a Gothic structure. And the reason why they wanted a Gothic structure was they felt that it connected us with the Anglican Communion. The Episcopal Church is the US arm of the Anglican Church. Most people think of it as the Church of England, but we are part of the Anglican Communion. And Bishop Leonard felt very strongly that by having a Gothic structure that that connection would be very obvious. So the plans and the design were altered somewhat. And so we have a Gothic structure here for Trinity Cathedral. Many critics believe that this was Charles Schweinfurth’s finest piece that he did here in Cleveland. As I mentioned, he does have some other things that would be familiar to people who know Cleveland. On the campus of Case Western Reserve, he has Harkness Chapel and Hayden Hall. And then on a road that used to be called Liberty Boulevard but is now Martin Luther King Boulevard. Those beautiful stone bridges that arc over Martin Luther King Boulevard were designed as well by Charles Schweinfurth.
Ken Valore [00:22:18] When we were in the church and we were looking over the altar, that was kind of a unique backdrop. I can’t remember what you call it.
Wayne Bifano [00:22:27] It’s called a reredos. And the reredos simply means a back wall. The reredos is a copy of the reredos that’s found in Winchester Cathedral in England. It has 59 characters. Some are part of the wall, some are removable. Twenty-one of them are identifiable and they range from little known saints such as Saint Phoebe and Saint Bertha to well known Saint Luke and Saint Matthew, Virgin Mary, Saint John. They also contain some of the early church fathers such as Irenaeus and Ignatius of Antioch and Polycarp. They also have Saint, brother cat, King Arthur, and we’re not quite sure why King Arthur is up there. In some areas he’s considered a saint, legendary as he is. But the central figure is welcoming Christ with his arms open wide to welcome people in. On his Christ’s right is the Virgin Mary and on Christ’s left is the beloved St. John. And it’s done in Indiana limestone. Who carved it again? The Italian carvers from immigrants who in many cases could not speak English but were craftspeople in their own right. Above the reredos is the Tedeha window. I think I mentioned. I don’t. One aspect of the high altar is interesting. Traditionally in Orthodox churches you will find a relic. The relic that we have is from Solomon’s Quarry, which is just a short few yards away from Golgotha. And it’s a piece of marble, and it was embedded into the marble altar as part of the relic.
Ken Valore [00:24:48] Martha, you told an interesting story about the wood.
Martha Bifano [00:24:55] In the area that’s called the chancel or the choir and would be where the choir would sit, but also the people of the church, the deacons, the archdeacons, the canons of the church would sit in this area. The wood is English oak. We’ve been told that it’s one of the most difficult woods to carve because it is very dense and very hard. But in this area of the chancel, the work was done by artisans from what would be now present day Austria and Hungary, and a man who had a company here in Cleveland. His name was Theodore Kundtz. He did residential and commercial work here in the city of Cleveland, and he had done some work for a man by the name of Thomas White. He had done cabinetry for Mr. White’s home. Mr. White was very pleased with the work and the workmanship. So he suggested to Mr. Kundtz that the two of them go into business together. Now, Mr. White owned the White Sewing Machine Company, and with Mr. Kundtz’s company they created the cabinetry that perhaps maybe your grandmother or Aunt Minnie had a White Sewing Machine that was embedded into a piece of cabinetry made by the Theodor Kunst Company.
Ken Valore [00:26:32] Mr. White was a parishioner.
Martha Bifano [00:26:35] I don’t believe that he was. So it was. Mr. Kundtz was known as doing both. He also did religious institutions work for them, too. So Mr. White was not that I know of, a parishioner.
Ken Valore [00:27:00] You know, how is, how was the congregation changed over the years? And basically, since this is located downtown, where do most of your parishioners come from? How large is it?
Martha Bifano [00:27:22] Obviously, over the years it has evolved and has changed sort of as a sweeping generalization, we might say that the congregation, when we’re talking about the beginning of Trinity Cathedral, and that would be in the year 1907, when it was dedicated, that it probably represented the wealthy or an upper middle class people that were coming here. And they were drawing mostly from the immediate area. It was referenced as Millionaires Row. So the homes were large, they had large families, and they were all kind of very close in here. So we’ve gone through periods of time, of growth and challenges, Just as the city of Cleveland. We’ve often reflected what’s happened here in Cleveland. Things were very challenging in the 60s. In the 70s, as the structure and the look of the city began to change, people were moving out and away from the central city. But as far as looking at the congregation today, it’s very vibrant and active. We have more than 900 members, if you will. Right now, people are often looking to come to a church the size of Trinity Cathedral because of the numbers of activities and events and the energy that comes from such an entity. So we draw people as far east as Ashtabula county, as far west as Sandusky, if you will, to the south, maybe Medina. So we have people that are coming from all around to come to Trinity Cathedral. We are in an urban setting, and just a few years ago, when Wayne and I started coming, and that was, like, eight years ago, our neighborhood was mostly indigenous. We had a lot of homeless here in the area. And in just this short time. Now our neighbors are Cleveland State University, that we are surrounded on all of our sides by Cleveland State. So our neighbors and our neighborhood has changed. But we are an urban church. But we are a church that is very involved in the community for civic and service purposes. We have a very strong arts and music program. So we have an energy that draws people that then are bringing their energy to the situation, too.
Ken Valore [00:30:52] I’m just curious. You’re basically the cathedral for the Ohio diocese. Does that Episcopal Diocese cover the whole state of-
Martha Bifano [00:31:07] No, There actually are two Episcopal dioceses in the state of Ohio. So Trinity Cathedral is the home of the bishop of the Diocese of Ohio. If you took an imaginary- If you drew an imaginary line just above Columbus from east to west borders of Ohio, everything north of that imaginary line would be the Diocese of Ohio, Episcopal Diocese, and below that would be the Southern Diocese of Ohio. So we probably have- I’m not real sure whether we have, like, 180 churches. I think like 108, maybe 108.
Wayne Bifano [00:31:52] I’m not sure.
Martha Bifano [00:31:54] Different parishes within the diocese. So, yes, we do serve- And so we are, in essence, the church for all of those other churches. But we also have the dual role of that. We have our own parish, we have our own congregation at Trinity.
Ken Valore [00:32:17] What kind of services does the church provide for both congregation and the surrounding community?
Martha Bifano [00:32:28] Okay, we partner in many, many different ways. We are partnering with an elementary school very close by, just a couple blocks away, Maryland. Marion Sterling elementary School. So we have a partnership of both tutoring and also assisting with a national program that’s called Blessings in a Backpack, so that children who are on food subsidy as far as getting meals at school, they found that children were hoarding food because over the weekend, they had no access then to food. And within their families, they did not have the wherewithal to buy food. So Blessings in a Backpack then has food that children take home. In a backpack over the weekend to help feed the family. We have a community garden that’s on Cedar and 30th street and we are growing food. And the majority of that food then is used at a program that we call Place at the Table and that takes place on Sunday. And we serve a meal to our brothers and sisters who are having challenges in their life. Initially, this program, which is more than 25 years that Trinity Cathedral has been doing this food program on Sunday. Sunday. We used to see mostly men, but now in the situation that many families find themselves in, we are seeing more families that are coming for a meal here on Sundays. We offer here at Trinity, we are often a meeting place for civic and political dialogue. We have even hosted the police and representatives of various gangs within the city of Cleveland, because both sides recognized by coming and meeting at Trinity that they were meeting both in a safe place and also a neutral place and space where that they could have have meaningful dialogue. So we provide that as well. We have a very active music program and from October through May, on Wednesdays we have a free concert. We call them the brown bag concerts and they can be anything from organ recitals to bluegrass to jazz to. It could even be dance. Currently, the person that is heading up our music and arts program is Todd Wilson. He’s both a nationally known and world known organist. So there’s a great deal of energy and a great deal of things that happen over a year’s time. We may have 40,000 people that will pass through Trinity, and that doesn’t necessarily include those people that are here on Sundays to worship, but people that are coming to a meeting, people that are coming here for a class, people that are coming to have a bite to eat at the cafe. So there’s a great deal of energy and a great deal of activity that’s happening. We have space that can be utilized by organizations for their meetings. So we have a space use program. As far as people that would like to come and either have a meeting here or some kind of an event here.
Ken Valore [00:36:31] Are there different organizations that are really part of the church?
Martha Bifano [00:36:39] Yeah, we probably have maybe 30 different kinds of things that, you know that you could be involved in, Whether it’s the book club or the men’s club, the docents, if you want to be someone that helps out with the food program, the meals. What else do we have? Oh, yes, we have a knitting, what they call the knitting pearls. And they create scarves and blankets to give to the homeless. We also are very involved in being green and being Good stewards of the land. So the knitting pearls also make things out of plastic bags?
Ken Valore [00:37:25] Yeah. Could you just comment on the commons? Obviously. How long is that been there?
Martha Bifano [00:37:34] Okay, what was the rationale? Okay, okay. The commons ended up kind of growing a little bit like Topsy, if you will, when our current dean and the dean of the cathedral is, if you will, like the head pastor, the head minister, if you will. But going back and forth kind of to medieval times and the academic, with the church being often very close to the college or the university. The head of the cathedral as far as the parish is called the dean. So our current dean is Dean Tracy Lind. And part of her background was city planning, urban planning. That was what her undergraduate work was involved in. So when she came on board, the church had already done a study here at Trinity that we lacked an adequate kitchen and we also were lacking in restrooms, especially restrooms for women that the men were seemed to be doing okay, but we didn’t have enough for the women. Anyway, so Dean Lind comes on the scene and they’re at a meeting, ready to close out the discussion, the dialogue. And one person asks to be recognized and stands and says, no, there isn’t anything in this place plan that talks about being green, being concerned with the environment, being good stewards. In essence, you’re just constructing something because you have this need for a kitchen and bathrooms. Let’s go back to the drawing board and rethink this. The architect for, for the project was city architecture here in Cleveland. And everybody went back to the drawing board and they drove up what is now Trinity Commons. Before that time, there were like three or four different structures here on the campus, if you will. None of them were connected. So if you needed to go to the offices for the diocese, you had to go outside. If you wanted to go to an area where the gallery was, that was a different building. So what city architecture did then was to design what is now Trinity Commons. And it was made as green as they possibly could make it for that time. Trinity Commons was dedicated in 2002. So all of those different structures were connected. In the parking lot on the prospect side of where Trinity Cathedral is located, there are 130 geothermal wells underneath the parking lot that heat and cool the new addition portion of Trinity Commons. Everybody that works here are up on the second level above the commons area has natural light coming into their office. They used non-toxic paints and carpeting, triple glazed windows. They reduced, they reused, they recycled materials to make this possible. And if someone has told us who is involved in green structures that we would probably, if we had applied at the time that they were building it, we probably would have gotten a silver medal for our greenness here at Trinity. So. But the Commons is a place again, going back to the concept of the Middle Ages church, the church in the Middle Ages, as being a place for meeting, for conversation, for sharing, a place of equal opportunity where everybody in essence was the same as far as crossing paths with one another to come together.
Ken Valore [00:42:12] You mentioned Cleveland State. Is there any direct programming between the two institutions?
Martha Bifano [00:42:21] We have a person that’s on staff who is the. What’s the title? What’s Joe’s title? The chaplain. There it goes. Yeah. The chaplain for Cleveland State. And we have students that come and have a service here and we do interact with them this fall, or not even fall coming up in just a few weeks, we are having a welcoming evening for new students coming into Cleveland State. They are our neighbors and our doors are open to them. Yes, but we do actually have a person on staff who is the chaplain over there at, at Cleveland State, but he’s also connected here to Trinity.
Ken Valore [00:43:15] Do you have any other questions?
Martha Bifano [00:43:30] I mean, in a total response or the Koblin service? I didn’t know that. No, that’s correct.
Wayne Bifano [00:43:35] We also have four different types of services.
Martha Bifano [00:43:38] Right. Talking about the services here at Trinity Cathedral on a Sunday, we have an 8 o’ clock service, and that’s quite traditional in the Anglican Episcopal Church as far as the structure of it. We have a nine o’ clock service and it’s the one that most of our families with children come to. It’s a little more upbeat. We have a jazz band that plays for that service, and so we call it the almost Jazz Mass. And everyone at the time of the communion service, which is a component in the Episcopal Church, the Mass, the Communion, the Lord’s Supper. It’s often referenced in other churches. At the 9 o’clock, everybody gathers around the altar at the time of the communion service and the children help with the blessing of the bread and of the wine. So it’s quite lovely to watch them up there kind of dancing around the altar, if you will. Then we have an 11:15 service, which is a traditional choral Eucharist. So the choir is at that service and sings and very traditional. We also have an evening service on Wednesday that’s. That’s called Evensong, and it is very beautiful and it is a sung service for the most part. We apparently are going to start doing Compline, which is also an evening service. 9 PM on Sundays. And once a month during the academic year, on a Sunday at 4 o’clock, 5 o’clock, we have what’s called Solemn Mass. Sometimes people refer to it lovingly as smells and bells because they have the incense and they ring the bells. And that happens once a month during from like September through May. So we have a lot of services that are going on as far as part of the church structure and a lot of activities going on all the rest of the time.
Ken Valore [00:46:21] Anything else either one of you want to comment on? If not, thank you very much for your time. You’re welcome. We appreciate your time. And at some point you will be getting a copy, a CD of this, as well as a thank you.
Martha Bifano [00:46:46] You’re very welcome. We appreciate you wanting to come to Trinity and hear what’s happening here at Trinity.
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