Abstract
This oral history interview with Henry Loconti, founder of the Agora Ballroom, explores his early life in Cleveland, his family’s immigrant roots, and his entry into servicing jukeboxes and, in 1966, launching the Agora concert venue that helped define the city’s rock music scene. Loconti reflects on growing up in a close-knit Italian American neighborhood in the 1930s and ‘40s, the entrepreneurial influence of his mother, and his experiences serving in the U.S. Army during the Korean War. He provides detailed recollections of Cleveland’s social and cultural landscape in the 1940s through the 1960s, including neighborhood bars, music venues, gambling operations, and the role of jukeboxes in shaping popular entertainment. The interview also offers firsthand observations of racial tensions leading up to the Hough uprising of 1966 and the eroding sense of safety in the city. Toward the end of the interview, Loconti tells stories about a memorable 1978 concert featuring Bruce Springsteen and Southside Johnny, as well as when he hired a Case doctoral student to design a one-of-a-kind floor with customized lighting capabilities controlled by a teletype and a computer for the Rare Cherry, a disco club he owned in Willoughby in the late 1970s.
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Interviewee
Loconti, Henry (interviewee)
Interviewer
Calder, James (interviewer);Przybojewski, Ruth Rachel (interviewer); Tebeau, Mark (participant); Popovich, Steve (participant)
Project
History 304
Date
3-21-2006
Document Type
Oral History
Duration
82 minutes
Recommended Citation
"Henry Loconti Interview, 21 March 2006" (2006). Cleveland Regional Oral History Collection. Interview 304001.
https://engagedscholarship.csuohio.edu/crohc000/399
Transcript
Henry Loconti [00:00:00] Today.
Mark Tebeau [00:00:00] And because I thought I brought it.
Henry Loconti [00:00:06] Let me ask you a question, okay? What, after all of this, what more can you possibly ask?
Mark Tebeau [00:00:13] Well, there’s a lot. You actually are- After- I’ll just tell you why I suggested Jim come back. One, you’re going to see in his questions, there’s a lot of detail. I mean, you have a command of this city before the Agora that I think is unusual. So that’s partly what I think Jim was going to talk to you about today. But even some of the details about the Agora itself, it would be nice to get a little bit more. And then this is just one of the things we’d like to do maybe later, that Jim wanted to do, is look at some memorabilia and maybe actually bring it out and talk a little bit about it. And I’ll take some photographs of you and the memorabilia. Again, remember, we’re creating this kind of record for posterity. And one of the things that’s really interesting, as I talk about your story, everybody really recognizes it as a unique kind of record that doesn’t exist anywhere. Most people know about- [inaudible; phone interrupts] They can tell you about jukeboxes and all that, but the kind of details and the stories you’re telling are really special. So, I mean, that’s why we’d like to come back, and we may even come back again, so some of the same questions will reprise, and probably there’ll be some new things. We just wanted to kind of jog your memory over a period of time.
Henry Loconti [00:01:32] Okay. You’re going to hold that alternating? Can’t we set it down on something?
Mark Tebeau [00:01:40] No, she’s got a strong elbow when that gives out, I’ll take it.
Henry Loconti [00:01:45] Okay.
James Calder [00:01:47] Okay, are we ready?
Henry Loconti [00:01:48] Sure, go ahead.
James Calder [00:01:50] My name is James Calder, and I am at the Agora Ballroom theater with Henry Loconti, its founder. The date is March 21, 2006. To begin with, I wanted to ask you some background information about growing up in Cleveland. First of all, where did you grow up exactly?
Henry Loconti [00:02:08] I was born at 1202 Scovill Avenue, which, like I said previously, doesn’t exist anymore. It would be right about where- Oh, we’re at 77, where 90 comes in, in that area there.
James Calder [00:02:27] Okay. Could you tell me about your family? Are there any specific memories that stick out growing up?
Henry Loconti [00:02:35] Well, my grandparents came from Italy. My father came from Italy. My mother was born in the Bronx. She was born probably within a year or two of them arriving in this country. And then from the Bronx, they moved to Little Italy. They only stayed there maybe a year or so. Then they moved to what is now Brownell- It’s part of Brownell Court. It’s on Carnegie, right next to the church that used to be St. Anthony’s and right now it’s a Lebanese church right by the Aladdin’s Bakery. There’s an alley there. Well, she used to live in that alley. At one time I guess there were apartments there or some type of a little house or something. But that’s where they lived and that’s where my mother grew up.
James Calder [00:03:33] All right. What brought your family to Cleveland?
Henry Loconti [00:03:37] My father and his brothers - and I think there was four or four brothers - all came over. They landed in New York, naturally. From there they migrated into Utica, New York, and the majority of them stayed there. My father came to Cleveland to work in one of the factories.
James Calder [00:04:01] Okay. And so did you, in your specific neighborhood, do you have any memories growing up there or just as kids with you and your brothers?
Henry Loconti [00:04:15] Well, our neighborhood was, I guess, wasn’t unique to the time, except that we had a little bit of everything in our neighborhood. You know, there were times when there were gunshots and you dived for under a car. [laughs] They used to call our neighborhood, the police used to call it the Roaring Third. Well, we were in the Third District, and I guess that’s where it got its name, the Roaring Third. You know, there was bootlegging going on. There was- I remember houses that we were not allowed to go near or even look at down more towards 14th Street, which I guess were houses of ill repute. And then we had- To me, it was just a normal neighborhood. I was a kid. I didn’t know any better. And when I look back on it now, our neighborhood was a very safe neighborhood. I don’t ever remember locking our doors. I mean, in fact, we never locked the front door on our house. It was open 24 hours a day, seven days a week. Our house was a two-family home that my mother owned. My grandmother lived with us, my uncles lived with us, my cousins lived with us. So it was one large family.
James Calder [00:05:50] Are there any stories? So you had all those people living in that one house. Are there any stories you can tell me about that? What was that like?
Henry Loconti [00:06:00] Well, it was family. And the one thing I remember about our neighborhood is everybody watched out for everybody. We didn’t realize that at the time that the adults, you know, three blocks down the street were always watching the kids, yelling if they got into trouble, calling our mothers our fathers if we did something wrong. And one thing I do remember, parents didn’t defend you against your neighbors or your school teachers. In fact, if you did something wrong, you better not come home and tell your parents that the teacher was wrong, because then you got it twice instead of once. So, and that sort of changed today. Today, I watch these parents, they defend against the teachers like they were some kind of criminals instead of teachers.
Mark Tebeau [00:06:52] I’m actually going to jump in, Jim. As you know, one of the things we’re doing is talking about interview technique, training a little bit. But I want to make sure we get everything covered. There are a couple details that you asked, a couple questions you asked that elicited detail. I’m interested in what factory your father worked at and exactly how many people lived in your house? I mean, you described uncles, cousins-
Henry Loconti [00:07:16] Well, in our immediate home, there was my grandmother, myself, and my mother and father. Actually, you see across the street in the store, my mother and father also had another residence there, which there was a bedroom and a kitchen, bathroom, behind the store. So sometimes they’d come over at home, sometimes we’d go over there. I remember as a very, very young child, because I remember my brother having his crib in the bedroom behind the store. And I actually lived there for a while until it got to the point where there was the two of us and my mother and my father, and we got past what you would call toddler, and then we went across street because my mother bought three double bricks, which means there was three two-family homes, across the street. And my grandmother moved into one and my uncle moved into another. And then there was just a fellow by the name of Murrata that lived in the house in between us.
Mark Tebeau [00:08:27] Do you remember the address?
Henry Loconti [00:08:29] The house? Yes, our house was 1119 Scovill, and I don’t remember the ones next door, but they must have been very close.
Mark Tebeau [00:08:38] So did- You keep mentioning your mother bought them, not your father?
Henry Loconti [00:08:43] Actually, my father worked in a factory. And my mother, when she was 19 years old, she started a little store. And the way she- And we’ve got her on tape also telling her story about the store, but the store was for rent. She borrowed the money to rent the store. She went and talked somebody in the candy business into giving her, you know, a dozen boxes of candy and peanuts and things. And she opened up her store, and little by little, she started selling and buying more inventory and selling and buying more inventory. Eventually, she started buying groceries, and then it became groceries and meats, and it was a full grocery store.
Mark Tebeau [00:09:32] What was the name of the store?
Henry Loconti [00:09:34] It eventually became Loconti’s Confectionery,
Mark Tebeau [00:09:41] And which factory did your father work at?
Henry Loconti [00:09:44] You know, I don’t know. I do know that it had something to do with metals, but I don’t really know the name of it.
Mark Tebeau [00:09:54] Before I give the interview back to Jim, Loconti’s Confectionery. Is that actually, I mean, it strikes me, as I’ve talked to you in the past, that your family is sort of entrepreneurial. Is your mother the source of that?
Henry Loconti [00:10:06] I would say she was the main source of it, yes. My mother went to Brownell School. She only went to the sixth grade, but she was an amazing business person. I don’t know where, it just- You know, she tells about her child, how they grew up, and I guess they grew up so poor to the point where her mother used to have to walk the railroad tracks to pick up coal to bring home to heat the house. The house did not have electricity. It had oil lamps. And her father, when he used to come home at night, he would take his finger and if he rubbed it around and dirt came off, they got a belting, so they had to keep the oil lamps clean. She tells a story how she used to have to scrub the cobblestones in the alley on her hands and knees so that her younger brothers could play out there.
Mark Tebeau [00:11:03] And this is growing up in Brooklyn?
Henry Loconti [00:11:05] This is growing up in Cleveland. This is over on Carnegie, around, I was going to say, maybe 12th or 13th at Carnegie. Her mother used to take, you know, the flour sacks with the X’s? Well, flour used to come in a sack and would say flour, but it would have X’s on it. Her mother used to bleach, used to take the flour sacks, cut them open and bleach them till they were white. You could never get all of the printing out. And that’s how she made her dresses - out of flour sacks. At the time, there was no welfare, but there was a thing called relief. But I remember my mother saying that my grandmother would never go on relief, that they were too proud to take anything from anybody.
Mark Tebeau [00:11:57] Actually, I have a couple more follow ups. When was this? About what time?
Henry Loconti [00:12:02] My mother was born 1899. So I would say this is probably in the early 1900s. If she went to the sixth grade, that would have probably been what, 16 years old? No, no, not 16. What age do you go into sixth grade? About 12. Yeah, 12. 13 years old, I think. I think it was more like 13 or 14.
Mark Tebeau [00:12:28] And so, you know, I’m going to turn it back over to Jim here in a second, but back to thinking about your mother. So your mother’s- Your grandparents then came from Brooklyn. I’m trying to figure out. No, I’m trying to remember the story you told-
Henry Loconti [00:12:43] Actually, my grandparents came from the Abruzzi, on my mother’s side. On my father’s side, they came from Bari.
James Calder [00:13:00] In Italy?
Henry Loconti [00:13:01] Yeah. My mother never dated my father. She was never allowed out of, you know, she was never allowed to leave the site. And she got married when she was 15. In fact, I think she was like 14 and a half. I don’t think she made 15 yet.
Mark Tebeau [00:13:22] Go ahead, Jim. I just wanted to-
James Calder [00:13:25] I guess another follow up about when you were growing up. What school did you attend?
Henry Loconti [00:13:31] In the first grade, I went to a school at the time was called St. ’s. It was a Catholic school. We lived at 12th. The school was at 22nd Street. And there were no school buses. We walked to school. On the second grade I went there also. On the third grade, my mother sent my brother and I to a school called Villa Angela. It was actually a boarding school. And she put us in boarding school when I was in the third grade, my brother was in the first grade. And Villa Angelo now is called- It’s where St. Joseph’s and St. Mary’s are. That’s out by Euclid Beach, where Euclid beach used to be. I actually went to several schools. I went out there until I was in the fourth grade, third and fourth grade. But I went to fifth grade, the Holy Trinity. I went sixth and seventh grade back to Villa Angela. And then the eighth grade I came into Cleveland where we lived and went to Brownell High School, which was at 14th and- Oh, it’s right on 14th Street, right around Carnegie and the Prospect, closer to Carnegie.
James Calder [00:14:56] And did you say you went to school with some of your brothers or siblings?
Henry Loconti [00:15:00] I went with my brother Joe. My brother Joe and I are a year and a half apart. My mother had four boys. She had two that were a year and a half apart. Then 13 years later she had me. And my brother Joe and I are a year and a half apart. So she had four boys.
James Calder [00:15:21] It sounds like you were sent to different schools. Did you attend with other kids from your neighborhood or did it kind of get broken up?
Henry Loconti [00:15:30] At Villa Angela? No, I didn’t attend with any of the kids from the neighborhood. At St. Brigid’s I did. And St. Brigid’s became St. Brigid’s-St. Anthony’s because St. Anthony’s where I was baptized, was on Carnegie. And they sold the church and the school. Well, there was no- It was a small school, but there really wasn’t a big school there. They sold that to Lebanese Catholic. And then we all moved over to St. Brigid’s, which stayed there for years. So between St. Brigid’s Holy Trinity and Villa Angela and Brownell, I finished my ninth grade.
Mark Tebeau [00:16:13] I was just going to ask, were all those Catholic schools?
Henry Loconti [00:16:15] All except Brownell. Brownell was my first public school. I went there in the, actually the last half of the seventh grade. So I was there for seventh, eighth, and ninth.
Mark Tebeau [00:16:26] Do you have any stories about nuns?
Henry Loconti [00:16:33] [laughs] We had some. At the younger over at St. ’s not many stories at all. But at Villa Angela, yes, plenty. We had one nun there, Sister Mary Hubert, was probably the toughest nun I’ve ever met in my life. But I got to, looking back now, she was fair, but she was tough. I mean, she believed in corporal punishment [laughs], and taking banging you against the blackboard was one of them. We had another one called Sister Anastasia, who was a tomboy. We had a hill there that we used to sled ride. And there was like several runs. And the one run when I got there was nicknamed the Nutcracker, and I never knew why. I found out, but she went down that with the boys and I guess after they did the jump, it was like a little jump there and it ended up in a creek at the bottom and she wound up breaking her leg. So she was around on crutches for quite a while. But she was our football coach also.
Mark Tebeau [00:17:42] So this was what this sled run was where? It’s an urban sled run.
Henry Loconti [00:17:47] It’s still there. No, this sled run is- Well, right now you don’t remember where Euclid Beach was at, but if you went out Lakeshore, just around 185th, before you get to 185th, before you make the turn - it wraps around 140th - Villa Angela is still there. It’s called Villa Angela-St. Joseph’s now. But at one time, inside the grounds of Villa Angela, you had St. Mary’s, which was up by the lake, and St. Joseph’s which was a boys’ school that went to the eighth grade. And you used to- You could board there or you could be a day student. I was a boarder for two years and I was a day student for three years. And as a day student, we moved from Scovill for a short period of time. My mother owned a property and a restaurant and bar in Garfield Heights. It was on Broadway. My brother Joe and I- And I was in the sixth grade. I’d take my brother and we would leave Garfield Heights, which is on Broadway, and we would take a bus from there down to East 9th Street. We’d get off there and take a streetcar down to the square. Then we’d get on a bus at the square and go out to Euclid Beach. And then from Euclid beach, we’d have to walk about six blocks to Villa Angela. And we did that almost every day.
Mark Tebeau [00:19:24] How long was that ride? [crosstalk] Go ahead. I was just going to ask about the streetcar ride.
James Calder [00:19:29] That’s all right.
Henry Loconti [00:19:31] Well, if you think about coming from Garfield Heights and going all the way to downtown Cleveland, and from downtown Cleveland out to Euclid Beach, it took us probably an hour to an hour and a half to get there by bus. So we’d have to leave very early in the morning. We were late quite a bit. And then there’s many, many mornings my mother drove us.
Mark Tebeau [00:20:06] So that the hill was right next to your school.
Henry Loconti [00:20:08] The hill was right next- It’s still there. The school, a few years after I left. In fact, I have a picture of it. The school burned down a few years after I left, and they rebuilt it at 185th and Lakeshore, which is now St. Joseph’s.
Mark Tebeau [00:20:29] So you would have been 10 or 11 or 12 at this time.
Henry Loconti [00:20:33] Just let me see. Fifth, sixth, about 11 years old.
Mark Tebeau [00:20:37] And when was this one again? When would that have been? When you were born?
Henry Loconti [00:20:41] 1929.
Mark Tebeau [00:20:42] So this would’ve been around 1940.
Henry Loconti [00:20:45] It was around ’40, ’41. Yes. The war started in the- We moved from there in- While I was still there. We moved there in late ’41 because my mother bought a place at 55th and St. Clair, which was another restaurant and bar and- But we didn’t live there. We still lived on Scovill. That’s when we moved back to Scovill at my grandmother’s house.
Mark Tebeau [00:21:14] So you were very mobile. I mean, did that have- It’s interesting, you lived in so many different places in Cleveland.
Henry Loconti [00:21:20] I got to know the city very well at a very young age. [laughs]
Mark Tebeau [00:21:27] Back to the streetcar riding. What was it like to ride a streetcar? Because, I mean, this was-
Henry Loconti [00:21:31] Well, we rode a streetcar no matter where you went. I remember when they first put the streetcars on our street. I was probably five years old. We used to sit there and watch them put the tracks in. Because Scovill- The street that we lived on was called Parkman Drive, and it was- It became called Short Scovill when they put streetcars in. Streetcars- Scovill used to end at 14th Street because they put the car line in, made the turn there, came onto Parkman Drive, went to 9th Street, and then made the turn and went all the way downtown. So our street became “Short Scovill.” It was called Scovill, but we nicknamed it Short Scovill because it only ran from 9 to 14th and Parkman Drive sort of just disappeared.
James Calder [00:22:19] You don’t remember how much it cost to ride the streetcar at that time, do you?
Henry Loconti [00:22:23] Yeah, we used, I think it was a penny for children. Yeah, I think it was a penny. And when I got into school, I remember you could buy a student pass for the week because by that time it went up to like 3 cents and you could buy a student pass for 10 or 15 cents for the week. But you got to remember, like my brother, he worked WPA and the pay was $15 a week for a 40-hour week. So you go, the farmers market was maybe two blocks from us. There was a street that came in by my mother’s. My mother’s was on the corner of 12th and Scovill, called Allen Avenue. And Allen Avenue was only one block. But when you got to the end of it, it was a huge farmers market, probably the largest in the city of Cleveland at the time.
James Calder [00:23:18] I was actually going to back up a little bit. You mentioned that you had played football at school, or that there was football at school. Just curiously, were sports between all the private schools so big as they are now today?
Henry Loconti [00:23:32] Well, you’ve probably heard of St. Ed’s?
James Calder [00:23:35] Yeah.
Henry Loconti [00:23:36] Well, we used to play against St. Ed’s when we were at St. Joseph’s, and St. Joseph’s still plays against St. Ed’s. So yeah, football was very big at St. Joseph’s. We didn’t have basketball. We didn’t really have basketball except at the YMCA, and we didn’t have it at Brownell either. We got it when we got to John Hay. But in John Hay, wrestling was the big thing. That was the number one sport there for years.
James Calder [00:24:11] Were you an athlete in school?
Henry Loconti [00:24:15] I wrestled with John Hay and I played football also, yes.
James Calder [00:24:21] I was wondering if we could start talking about from the earlier transcript of the last interview, I understand that you spent time with the military. Is there anything you can tell me about that or would like to?
Henry Loconti [00:24:38] I spent two years in the Army during the Korean War. I went in in ’50- I believe it was ’52 I went in and I came out in ’54. I spent a year in Korea. I went there in January and left there in December. It was- The country had nothing. I never saw- Coming from Cleveland and I didn’t do a lot of traveling. I mean, I can’t even remember going to Akron, Ohio, until I went to Kent State when I graduated John Hay but that was very short. All I can say about Korea was that it was the most desolate country I’ve ever seen in my life. There was absolutely nothing. I don’t remember stores. All I remember is dirt roads and huts that were made out of anything they could get their hands on.
Mark Tebeau [00:25:43] How did you end up- I mean, I’m sure you’re going to ask this, Jim. When did you- I mean, how did you get into the- I mean, were you drafted?
Henry Loconti [00:25:51] I was drafted, yes. No, I did not volunteer. [laughs]
James Calder [00:26:00] And so you- Let’s see. After you came back from the military, you came back to Cleveland, right?
Henry Loconti [00:26:09] Yes.
James Calder [00:26:11] And it said before that, also from that interview, kind of said that you had had a game and jukebox route?
Henry Loconti [00:26:18] I had a game route only, because I worked for a jukebox company who did not have games. So I built a game route before I left. When I came back, I developed it into games and jukeboxes, yes.
James Calder [00:26:33] And it seemed like you had also mentioned that your brother had kind of got you into that. Is there any-
Henry Loconti [00:26:39] My older brother, yes.
James Calder [00:26:40] Is there a story you can tell me about that?
Henry Loconti [00:26:42] Well, my older brother was in the game and jukebox business back in the ’40s, probably. I don’t know. I think he went in somewhere around ’44 or ’45, because during the war he worked in a factory and he started the game and jukebox route while he was in the factory. And he turned it over to me in 1949.
James Calder [00:27:12] And so from- Just to recap from the other interviews, you would go around to the different bars and places around sell the games and jukeboxes. Were there any particular establishments at the time that were either, you know, famous or infamous? Anything you remember from that?
Henry Loconti [00:27:31] Well, I remember a lot of the places, not just on his route, but on Leif’s route that- They were all over the city. They were at Hough, like I said, Hough, Lexington, Cedar, Central, Scovill. We went out to 105th Street, all through the 105th Street area, from Euclid all the way to St. Clair, all the way out St. Clair, all the way out Superior. The route actually covered very strongly the east side and partial the west side, the near west side. I didn’t have any large stops out past, say, West 110th at that time.
James Calder [00:28:19] So originally it was just games you were selling?
Henry Loconti [00:28:22] No, at that time, when I was with Leif, I had games and jukeboxes, and my brother had games and jukeboxes and I had games and jukeboxes when I came back from the Army. I guess the more colorful spots were all in the Black areas. Very little happened, you know, out in the- You see, there was no suburbs. I mean, you got to picture Cleveland without suburbs. Yes, there was a Mayfield Heights. I doubt if they had a thousand people out there, you know, in the ’40s. If you went out to University Heights, it was very small. All the suburbs are very, very small. There were no large- There were no Parmas that had 100,000. There were no suburbs that had, you know, 10,000, 20,000 people in them.
James Calder [00:29:21] Could you describe some of these places you were selling these games or jukeboxes to?
Henry Loconti [00:29:28] Well, like I said, a lot of- In the areas where you would have- There were beer and wine places, there were liquor places. There were restaurants, drugstores, bowling alleys. There were places along Cedar and Central that had cheat spots that you had to collect down in the basements where they had after-hour places. There were a lot of people in Cleveland that ran numbers and ran gambling institutions. And most of them were covers with either a lunch counter or a restaurant or something that you’d have your jukebox in.
Mark Tebeau [00:30:20] Tell us actually a little bit more about that, actually, really interesting side of Cleveland that very little is known. I’ve read very little about the numbers business. Do you remember any places, the joints that you may have gone to where the numbers were operated? And did you ever get a sense of how it worked?
Henry Loconti [00:30:40] The numbers in those days weren’t called numbers. It was called policy. You played what was called the policy numbers, and there were virtually hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of solicitors. They would go around, you know, collecting 10 cents, 15 cents, 25 cents to play a strip of numbers. You would just give them your numbers on a sheet and he’d give you your little sheet showing you what your numbers were. The numbers, I guess, were not in restaurants and bars, but most of them were pickup places for the numbers. The numbers actually were nothing more than what your lottery is today. It was actually the beginning of it.
Mark Tebeau [00:31:23] When you say pickup places- [inaudible]
Henry Loconti [00:31:25] Well, there were several places where the pickups were made for the numbers.
Mark Tebeau [00:31:32] So just there, just like a corner.
Henry Loconti [00:31:34] Yeah. Candy stores were big, restaurants were big. I think they stayed away from the bars and they really used little confectionary stores and places like that.
Mark Tebeau [00:31:48] Now, was this in the Black community or through-
Henry Loconti [00:31:51] This was Black and white. Actually, it was both. I think the numbers actually started in the white community and then migrated into the Black community because they were great players. You know, they spent their tens and fifteen cents.
Mark Tebeau [00:32:09] So tell Us about, you know, if you- One of the- As Jim and I were talking about the interview before we came in, what we’re trying to start to do as we talk to you is develop a texture of the city in the ’50s. And you went from one side essentially to the other. So if you’re in Cedar-Central, what is it, you know, so the heart of the Black community, what is it that you’re seeing there that’s not there anymore? I mean, if you- That’s this area.
Henry Loconti [00:32:42] Well, if I go back, say, to the late ’30s and all the way up until, say, the mid to late ’40s, the war changed a lot of the areas. That’s when people started to move away because there was a huge influx of people into Cleveland. It wasn’t as large a Black influx as it was the southern influx. You know, West Virginia, Kentucky, Tennessee. In those days they were called hillbillies. I never heard the word country western until probably well into the ’50s. In fact, even on the charts it was called hillbilly music. And it actually was a cross between what we call rock today and country western music.
Mark Tebeau [00:33:37] So what is it? Give me an example of a hillbilly artist that you might have programmed in a jukebox that would’ve been popular.
Henry Loconti [00:33:43] I played everybody from Hank Williams Sr. Slim Whitman. I can’t remember a lot of the older names, But Hank Williams Jr. was probably at the top of his game back in the late ’40s, early ’50s.
Mark Tebeau [00:34:03] And so, I mean, a hillbilly bar, is there a difference between a hillbilly bar and a juke joint in the Black community?
Henry Loconti [00:34:10] Absolutely. [crosstalk] In Cleveland, there was one on Euclid called the- In fact, right near here, right on the other side of the bridge was called the Famous Cafe. And it was right on the other side of the bridge at 55th on Euclid, which would have been about 57th and Euclid, 58th and Euclid, there was a place called the Famous Cafe, which was one of the well known hillbilly bars in Cleveland. My mother’s place at 55th and St. Clair, had a fellow by the name of Smokey Robinson who used to play on Friday and Saturday. So she was actually playing a lighter version of hillbilly music. And with that type of a crowd coming in, you naturally had a lot of problems. The Famous Cafe was called, you know, was really a very bloody place. It was a place that you stayed away from unless you were part of that group that didn’t mind getting involved. Fortunately, my mother’s place didn’t have the same kind of problems.
Mark Tebeau [00:35:17] What was your mother’s place’s name?
Henry Loconti [000:35:19] It was called Dutch’s Tavern. It was originally called Tieber’s Tower and was there for many, many years. It was a hotel upstairs and a bar and a restaurant downstairs. She never took over the hotel. It was just the bar and restaurant. But the bar was called Dutch’s Tavern.
Mark Tebeau [00:35:41] What was the Famous Cafe like in a sense? I want to go to the Famous Cafe in 1950, what is it?
Henry Loconti [00:35:48] You walk in, there’s a bar, some booths, tables and chairs and a little bandstand at the back. And that was it. Just a straight little bar.
Mark Tebeau [00:35:59] Wood bar, wood paneling.
Henry Loconti [00:36:01] Wood paneling on the wall, yes. Wooden floors.
Mark Tebeau [00:36:05] Pool tables?
Henry Loconti [00:36:07] No, that was a little early for pool tables being in bars. Pool tables in the bars, the coin-operated pool tables came out, oh, I’m going to say ’50, ’51, ’52, in that time period. The Famous wasn’t big enough to even have a pool table.
Mark Tebeau [00:36:26] But it was famous.
Henry Loconti [00:36:27] It was called the Famous and it was famous. I would say in country, in hillbilly music, yes, that’s where everybody migrated to.
James Calder [00:36:39] Would there be different types of, obviously, different types of music playing in the Black communities?
Henry Loconti [00:36:47] Well, naturally, the Black community played actually rhythm and blues is what it was called at that time. They would play a lot of jazz and a lot of blues. The rhythm and blues was actually what would be their pop style of music. And then there was the blues and the jazz.
James Calder [00:37:12] Could you name some artists?
Henry Loconti [00:37:16] I remember- Oh, man. And he was on King Label too. And I’m trying to think of him because I’m trying to- He is 75 years old now or no, he’s 78 now and living in New Orleans. I’m trying to bring him in for our 40th anniversary and we’re going to have to give me a few minutes to think about his name.
Mark Tebeau [00:37:41] We’ll come back to it. But he would have been a live performer.
Henry Loconti [00:37:47] At the time, there weren’t a lot of live performances like you’re seeing today. There were not a lot of concerts. Groups used to play bars. There weren’t concert facilities like you see today. They made most of their money off their records and playing bars. We had one facility here in Cleveland, and this goes back before Leo’s Casino, that was on 79th in Euclid that played the up-and-coming groups. Johnny Ray, who became famous later- There was a Little Bar on 17th and Euclid called the Esquire and it was a horseshoe bar and up above there was a little bit of a balcony and I mean just enough for a little upright piano and a person. That’s how small it was. And he used to sit up there and, you know, play while people were drinking, nobody paying any attention to him until he came out with a hit and then suddenly he was a star. That was around 1950–51 he came out.
Mark Tebeau [00:39:02] That was the one you just mentioned at 79th? The one you just mentioned at 17th in Euclid was the Esquire.
Henry Loconti [00:39:09] Was the Esquire bar, yes.
Mark Tebeau [00:39:10] What was at 79th and Euclid?
Henry Loconti [00:39:12] It wasn’t at 79th. It was more of around 75th, 76th. Moe’s Main Street. Then you had the Theatrical downtown, which played a little more of a higher class jazz and blues.
Mark Tebeau [00:39:33] At Moe’s Main Street, what would you have seen?
Henry Loconti [00:39:35] You’d have seen Johnny Ray. You’d have seen most of the acts that were coming out in those days in the late ’40s, early ’50s, who were touring.
Mark Tebeau [00:39:53] What was it like inside? Again, trying to get-
Henry Loconti [00:39:56] Inside it was a little more, for its time, it was a little more upscale, had a bar, had the stage, a lot of booths, tables, more of what you would call a Las Vegas-type lounge. But today would be just another bar.
Mark Tebeau [00:40:18] A Las Vegas-type place, does that mean bright lights? Or was it-
Henry Loconti [00:40:21] It had lights on the stage, which was unusual, had a sound system, which again was unusual. And they charged to get in to see the performance. A lot of the Black acts that toured, you know, you’d get in free just, they’d put the act in just to draw the customers. Sometimes they would charge you 50 cents to get in.
James Calder [00:40:55] It seems like- So I guess like what I’m kind of getting here is that bars were maybe more than just a place to drink back then. Just there weren’t places to come for all sorts of entertainment.
Henry Loconti [00:41:06] Actually, the neighborhood bar in those days, I guess, was where people hung out. Just it was a social event. You know, it’s where they went to socialize. You either went to church or a bar. [laughs’ There’s only two places you could go. There wasn’t- I don’t think there was a third choice.
James Calder [00:41:29] Was there, I mean, could you find it at these stores? I mean, what were the age range of people you could find or basically how young?
Henry Loconti [00:41:35] I guess usually it was older, I’ll tell you, because they didn’t allow kids in bars. You know, you could be, you’re allowed to drink 3–2 beer at 18. But most of the times if you weren’t over 21, most of the bars wouldn’t let you in because they knew everybody. I mean, the clientele. There were very few strangers in a bar. When you walked in, everybody knew everybody because you were from that neighborhood. And I mean, if a stranger walked in, everybody in the bar would know he was a stranger. You know. And like I said, the bar was the community watering hole. It was the place that everybody in the neighborhood came to. And if there were strangers, they were with somebody. A friend brought them there.
James Calder [00:42:33] Was it ever awkward for you coming into, you know, all these different bars? I mean, I imagine you were there during the day or whatever, but selling your games or anything like that?
Henry Loconti [00:42:43] Not really, no. I felt very comfortable. I felt actually, like I said, I walked the streets of Hough with a bag of money under my arm. I never put it away. It was always under my arm. And I walked all through the Hough neighborhood, all through Central, Cedar. I’d walk in with my bag, which had the money from all the previous collections. [laughs] Keep putting the money in the bag until it filled up.
James Calder [00:43:11] So it always felt very safe?
Henry Loconti [00:43:16] Yes, I guess I did. I just- Nothing ever happened, so I guess I was lucky.
Mark Tebeau [00:43:22] Was there a point, though, at some point where you began to feel less safe?
Henry Loconti [00:43:27] Yes.
Mark Tebeau [00:43:28] When was that?
Henry Loconti [00:43:30] Actually it started, I’m going to say probably in the early ’60s. And the first time I was ever warned in all the time that I hung in all those neighborhoods collecting was at 79th and Hough Avenue. There was a bar there called P’Ale, and it was run by Rip Bivins, who was an ex-saxophone player who was very well known. And I remember one day walking in there and collecting his place. And we were talking, and right next door there was a diner. And he said, Hank, he says, I’m going to walk over there with you. I says, why? I says, what’s the problem? He said, well, he says, just let me walk with you. And when I got over there, I started collecting the place there. And there was about 8 or 10 or 12 young, I’m talking 16, 17, 18-year-olds that were hanging out there. And there were comments that were made and I could see why he walked me over there and I asked him there, I said, what’s the problem? He said, things are brewing, he said, things are stirring up, he says, and I’m afraid there might be some problems. And you know, ironically, I left there and about maybe a week later I was at another place that had a lot of young Blacks because it was a young hangout. It was like a candy confectionery store and it had the jukebox in there. And I heard them talking while I was collecting again. Now, the owner knew me, some of the kids knew me, but some of them didn’t. The ones that I was seeing there didn’t. And they were talking also about the things that were coming. And I started listening to these stories going around. And not long after that is when we had the Hough riots. And a lot of people blamed the Hough riots, I believed, on the wrong thing. Because there was a bar across from P’Ale on the other corner called the Old Timer’s Cafe that had a very large white, what you would call redneck crowd that hung out in there. Because Hough was a mixed neighborhood. And at one time they used to call Hough Avenue “Little Hollywood.” It was absolutely one of the prettiest neighborhoods in the Cleveland area, in the downtown area. And they called it Little Hollywood because that’s what it looked like. But anyway, a fight broke out in there between a Black and a white. And they say that’s what carried out and became what was the Hough riots. And I remember the night of the Hough riots, Rip Bivins called me and told me that his jukebox was broke. And this was like 11 o’clock at night. And so I told him I’d come down. And when I came down, the National Guard had already taken over the streets. And I drove past them, got there, and he sent a guy out to sit in my car while I went in and repaired the jukebox. But see, there were no comments while I was in there. Whenever I was in P’Ale, this was an older crowd. This was like 30 and up. And at that point I had no problems, fixed the jukebox, got my car and left.
Mark Tebeau [00:46:55] So wait, this is the night of the eve of the riots?
Henry Loconti [00:46:57] This is the day after the eve of, the second eve of the riots, yes.
Mark Tebeau [00:47:01] So you went down into the neighborhood, fix the jukebox.
Henry Loconti [00:47:04] Right.
Mark Tebeau [00:47:05] So like. So the riots going all around- [inaudible]
Henry Loconti [00:47:08] Well, the riots- The riots started at 79th, moved over further, moved 79th towards in the Lexington area. They called it the Hough riots, but it got worse after that. They started burning buildings and burning houses, and they burned them all the way up to Superior. There were buildings that were burnt.
Mark Tebeau [00:47:32] But it’s interesting. Almost a normal evening. It was almost normal in Pig Al’s.
Henry Loconti [00:47:38] Yeah, yeah, P’Ale. P, apostrophe, A, L, E. P’Ale. I think he named it- Isn’t there some place in France called P’Ale? [crosstalk] I’m not sure. He’s no longer with us, so I can’t ask. I never asked him why he called it P’Ale. [laughs] He just did. It was P, apostrophe, A, L, E, P’Ale. There was no G in it.
Mark Tebeau [00:48:11] P, apostrophe, A, L, E.
Henry Loconti [00:48:13] Yeah.
Mark Tebeau [00:48:15] We will do some searching on why that’s possible. Did you want to ask me more about that?
Henry Loconti [00:48:22] There’s. We’re almost running out of time.
Mark Tebeau [00:48:24] Yeah, but go ahead.
James Calder [00:48:26] Well, it’s just- The only thing I want to ask too, is that did you feel like the riots there just marked a big change in the way race relations were in the city?
Henry Loconti [00:48:34] At that time, it did, yes. You know, it didn’t change in my life because I still had a lot of Black accounts that I was servicing all through Superior and 105th. I still went to my normal routes. I worked- I had a fellow by the name of O’Dell Foster that used to work with me on the route. I’d pick him up, he’d come with me once in a while that I helped get a bar at 114th and 111th, I believe, and Superior. And once he got that, he didn’t work that much with me, but he still came out with me once in a while. And we went on our normal route. I never- Most of the problems were around that area, but they actually ended quickly. And I know the person mostly responsible for bringing Hough Avenue back would be someone like Fannie Lewis, who is the still the councilwoman. I think Fannie’s in her, she’s got to be in her 80s.
Mark Tebeau [00:49:48] You said there was an undercurrent in the air. I just want to go back to that a little bit. So there was talk. What was that? When you just describe that, if you will.
Henry Loconti [00:49:57] You know, the undercurrent I didn’t feel when I was at that diner, but I remember the one Black kid saying, somebody said boy. And I remember him saying, boy traveled with Tarzan. I’m not your boy. They objected to being called boy. And, you know, a very famous saying, when you’re talking to somebody, say boy, you know, and you’d say whatever you’re going to say, just like some people say, ah, there are a lot of people say boy. And they objected to being called boy. And- But where I felt the most was because I remember this was on 100 and Bartlett. Bartlett was off Kinsman. It was in that area there. And these kids up there were not Hough Avenue kids. These kids up there are the ones that could afford the clothes. They were educated, and you could see that that they were already involved in something that was going to make a change. I just- You could feel it. At the time I must have been 22, at the time. 21, actually. Excuse me. Jesus. I’m really- I’m going way ahead of myself. I was actually, after I Came out of the Army, it was in the ’60s, so I would have been probably closer to 28, 29, 30 when it happened. It might even have been late ’50s, but I’m pretty sure it happened around ’60, ’61, ’62 in that area. So me being older and listening to kids that are 16, 17, 18, talk like that just, you know, give you an odd feeling.
Mark Tebeau [00:52:00] Is there anything, I mean, this was actually, again, as you can see, we covered a lot of different ground than we did last time. Did you have any final questions you wanted to ask? Because we wanted to do memorabilia if we could find a good-
James Calder [00:52:11] Yeah, I was going to say this is a fine stopping point.
Mark Tebeau [00:52:15] If we go spend a couple minutes looking at some memorabilia, maybe, and-
Henry Loconti [00:52:19] Well, I’ve got a lot of it in my office that we brought up. We’re starting to sort. And then I’ve got a lot of it downstairs in the safe.
Mark Tebeau [00:52:25] Well, we could just run up to your office. It doesn’t have to be anything.
Henry Loconti [00:52:28] Well, we brought it down to this office. If we go into my office, we got to go Landerhaven. [laughs] But most of the stuff came up from downstairs and the pictures and all that are in the restaurant. But a lot of the personal stuff is still in the office there. And we haven’t even sorted it yet. We’re just starting.
Mark Tebeau [00:52:52] Well, should we save that for another day then?
Henry Loconti [00:52:54] You can, I mean, or you can look through it now. Maybe you can-
Mark Tebeau [00:52:57] Well, it’s up to you. I mean, part of what-
Henry Loconti [00:53:00] What kind of memorabilia are you looking for?
Mark Tebeau [00:53:05] Well-
Henry Loconti [00:53:06] These are posters and old pictures. There’s write-ups and things like that.
Mark Tebeau [00:53:18] I actually have- Jim, what would you be interested in looking at?
James Calder [00:53:22] I would suppose. I mean, really anything, especially from any of the Cleveland bands that played any or, you know, national ones too. Just anything. Mostly, I want to see what stuck out for you, you know, what brought out good memories for you and if there’s stories you could tell connected with them. Anything. Anything with a good story, I guess.
Mark Tebeau [00:53:41] Right. And so, you know, used almost the memorabilia as a way to jog some memories that you have about the Agora. And I think that’s one approach. The other- I think that’s what. I mean, that’s what I’m interested in as well. But also to get a sense, you know, of the- Since we’re going to- Which are the best pieces, the things that are just most meaningful to you and tell that kind of story. And you know, that may be something we develop over time and I know Ruth Rachel would like to spend a little bit more time looking at those.
Henry Loconti [00:54:18] Okay. The reason I’m going through everything, I’m trying to find some old posters that I had that I haven’t seen for years. And I’m hoping I still have them. And it was the posters that I- They were small ones - they were about the size of this sheet - that we made up for each individual show. That showed the combinations that we put together. And we mainly did that when we transferred from WNCR in Cleveland to WMMS. Because we were with WNCR from 1970 until the end of ’72. So we’re with them for two years. And we started with MMS the first Monday in January, I believe it was ’73. And so we put together 13 shows. Because we only went on Mondays. And I wanted to do an entire series. So we put January, February and March together. And all the shows were $2. And we did that because, transferring to a new station, we wanted to make sure that we made every show successful. So we did things like Bob Seeger opening for Ted Nugent for $2. And we did Robin Trower opening for Peter Frampton for $2. We did Bachman Turner Overdrive for $2. I’m trying to think of somebody else. We did some major shows, and they were all $2. And when you think of Seeger opening for Ted Nugent, that’s unreal.
Mark Tebeau [00:55:49] Yeah, that’s what I told Jim when we were talking about the interview, it’s like the Detroit acts were really big.
Henry Loconti [00:55:54] Yeah, well, they were all in one agency. You’re talking about- They had Seeger. They had- They had Seeger, Ted Nugent, MC5, Alice Cooper. I think I’ll say that they had some pretty big acts coming out of Detroit. And at least three or four of them became what you would call superstars. Peter Frampton eventually became where he was playing stadiums. He sold 55,000 seats out Pittsburgh at the stadium.
Mark Tebeau [00:56:40] I remember that. That’s one of the great rock albums: Frampton Comes Alive!
Henry Loconti [00:56:48] Frampton Comes Alive! And just before that, Frampton’s Camel.
Mark Tebeau [00:56:52] I don’t remember that one. So let’s actually just take- Let’s just go look at some memorabilia. Just pick a couple things and-
Henry Loconti [00:57:00] You know what would be a good idea? Most of it’s in two boxes. If I bring it here, you can look at it.
Mark Tebeau [00:57:06] Yes, let’s do that. I’ll go help him. [crosstalk]
James Calder [00:57:11] This building, weren’t they?
Henry Loconti [00:57:12] This was their- The whole thing was there. Yeah, that’s what I thought was WHK, WMMS had this entire building right here and the theater.
James Calder [00:57:23] Yeah. Yes.
Henry Loconti [00:57:23] Next door.
James Calder [00:57:24] That was a- Was that any- Was that part of the reason you decided to move in here, or-
Henry Loconti [00:57:28] No, no.
James Calder [00:57:29] Just kind of worked out that way?
Henry Loconti [00:57:30] I never dreamt that I was going to be in this building. In fact, if someone had told me I was coming to the building, I would’ve told them they were crazy. But the seat won’t stay up. These are some of the posters that we had. This one I like the best because it shows that Johnny Winter got paid more than Bruce Springsteen. [laughs] [sound of camera]
Mark Tebeau [00:58:00] Take a picture so we know that.
James Calder [00:58:02] Are these like promotional things that you put up?
Henry Loconti [00:58:05] Yes. See, Johnny Winter’s take was seven-fifty and Bruce Springsteen was only four-fifty.
Mark Tebeau [00:58:11] When was this?
Henry Loconti [00:58:12] 1974.
Mark Tebeau [00:58:19] Could you just tell us what’s on the poster? Because we’re, obviously we’re doing this for a tape. [laughs]
Henry Loconti [00:58:24] You got Bruce Springsteen, Johnny Winter, Todd Rundgren, and Southside Johnny. Then down here you got Delbert McClinton and Marshall Chapman, which became very large also.
Mark Tebeau [00:58:38] And when was this?
Henry Loconti [00:58:42] This was June, so I imagine that’s August. Excuse me. I could have swore. Oh, you know what? Wait a minute, hold it. This is the wrong poster. This is not- This is 1978, August, and August- This is when we actually recorded and went with Springsteen over, oh, I think 30-some stations across the country. This is his- This is the- In fact, he came back here with Southside. Now, if you look at this, we played Southside for three days because we were televising a show. And on the- I’m trying to think of which day he came. I think he came on the Wednesday, which would have been the 30th, is when Springsteen played the Coliseum. Sold out two shows. After the show, came and got on the stage with Southside and became part of that television show. It’s never been shown. The Southside was shown, but all of Springsteen’s 28 minutes was cut because of Springsteen’s Miami Steve, who was the guitar player, he’s also in the Sopranos. I don’t know if you know who he is. Steve Van Zandt. He’s the guy with that crazy-looking wig. Always has that grump on his face? Well, that’s the guitar player for Springsteen. And he decided that he did not want Southside tied to the apron strings of Springsteen. So he made us cut the 28 minutes. And so one of these days we’re going to show it, though, in its entirety because Springsteen played in June of ’74. I didn’t see that August there. It was June then ’74 he played.
Mark Tebeau [01:00:36] But that was the show. You actually talked about that show in the last interview at some length about how Springsteen came back-
Henry Loconti [01:00:43] Yes, [crosstalk] he came back in ’78 and actually did a free show and did two complete sets. In fact, I remember Brian Sipe. Do you remember Brian Sipes? You’re not from Cleveland, are you?
Mark Tebeau [01:00:57] Actually, isn’t he the quarterback?
Henry Loconti [01:00:59] He was the quarterback for the Cleveland Browns. He was at the show that evening. I remember seeing him there.
Mark Tebeau [01:01:05] So if we could get an interview with Brian Sipe, that would be nice.
Henry Loconti [01:01:08] Oh, he would remember being there, I’m sure. [laughs]
Mark Tebeau [01:01:10] I’ll have to- Actually, I have a friend who knows him, so I’ll have to drop him an email and see if we can’t get his recollections. It would be a nice memory.
Henry Loconti [01:01:23] That was an incredible night. But actually, I want to tell you something. Having him here that night was great. But I think having him here with Southside Johnny turned out to be just as great because having him surprise everybody like that and come on the stage. I remember Miami Steve walking on first and everybody looked and thought it was great. And then Clarence Clemons came out and that was it. Everybody knew [laughs] who was coming next. The anticipation was there. And then he came out and the crowd went crazy. And they actually did 28 minutes. I know that for a fact because of our tape. And I remember we had to cut- I’ll never forget, we had to cut 28 minutes off of the end. And you know, when you do a show, a show builds towards the finale. And when you cut 28 minutes off, there’s no finale. And we went crazy trying to figure out how do we rearrange this show, how do we make this into a show? Without- Because he always ended his show with “Having a Party.” And the O’Jays also, I don’t know if you remember a group from Cleveland, very, very popular called the O’Jays. It was a Black group. And Eddie Lavert, who was one of the lead singers, was there and they motioned for him to come up, so he got on stage also with this, “Having a Party.” And Gerald Lavert, who was Eddie’s son, has been nominated for several Grammys and he now has his studio here. But we always talk about that story because he was just a little kid at the time. But like I said, There’s 28 minutes that’s never been shown.
Mark Tebeau [01:03:16] So these- So these-
James Calder [01:03:18] Yes. Is there any other-
Henry Loconti [01:03:21] Well.
Mark Tebeau [01:03:24] What are you going to do with this, by the way, Hank? These materials, you know, eventually.
Henry Loconti [01:03:29] You know, I don’t know yet. Eventually I’ll probably- This- I know what this is. This is a negative of the 1978 poster that was made for Springsteen. And in fact, I have this hanging in my home. Right there.
Mark Tebeau [01:03:55] Oh, wow.
Henry Loconti [01:03:57] And he did that in ’78, but I never got it autographed. And I got it autographed in 1987. I had to go to the Stone Pony in New Jersey to get it autographed because he was doing a show there with Southside Johnny and they were videotaping it and they invited me to the taping. So I went there and I hand-carried it. It’s very large. It’s that big.
Mark Tebeau [01:04:24] So is Bruce going to come back for the 40th?
Henry Loconti [01:04:25] I don’t know. Stranger things have happened. We asked him. We’ll see. This book was complete at one time, but it’s been picked over. And there are certain pictures I’ve got to find and put back into- This book was put together, I don’t know, a long time ago, back in the- I think she put it together like in ’79. These are all pictures of the groups playing on the stage. You got pictures of- Let me see. That’s Dallas. Yeah, that’s the Dallas club. These are pictures of the Atlanta club. Why the bathroom? [laughs] Didn’t we take pictures of the club? Yeah. Here they come. That’s the entrance. The Atlanta club was really a nice club. That’s the club I always wished we were able to keep.
Mark Tebeau [01:05:34] What happened with the clubs? One of the things we didn’t ask, and we’ll probably ask about, I mean, you expanded pretty dramatically in the ’70s, yeah?
Henry Loconti [01:05:42] From ’79 to ’81, we went from four to 13 clubs. And actually around between ’81 and ’82 is when the bottom dropped out of the market. I think I told you that. The record companies withdrew all their support. And we’re stuck out there with 13 live entertainment clubs with no live entertainment that could afford to tour at a reasonable price. And we lost around $3 million in that time period.
Mark Tebeau [01:06:18] So the record companies withdrew their support of the acts?
Henry Loconti [01:06:24] Yes, they used to help with the tour. They wouldn’t pay for all of it, but they would pick up a large portion of the tab. [phone interrupts] I gotta answer this one. Hello? Yes. [recording pauses and resumes]
Mark Tebeau [01:06:46] Let me suggest that one of our- We’re doing two things, as you know. One is just creating a record for posterity, right, which is kind of the fun part. The other is starting to think about producing some stuff. And we have David Barnett working with us this summer. And we think it’d be great to start putting some of your words with the visual, with the physical visuals, right? Just so we can- I mean, because- So the- Bruce- Like that poster one can imagine on this kiosks. Or on our- It’s a nice storytelling device to hear you talking about and to see what it is you’re talking about. So that’s part of what we’re after as we talk about memorabilia. What are the pieces that tell a story? And, like, I’m looking at this one. That is cool. I don’t know what that is. Is that a Bruce?
Henry Loconti [01:07:35] No. You don’t know who that is? I just shoved that in there. That doesn’t belong. I shoved it to keep it. Recognize him now?
Mark Tebeau [01:07:50] No. Who is that?
Henry Loconti [01:07:52] Come on, think about it.
Mark Tebeau [01:07:57] I’m looking at his signature, and I can’t even tell who it is. Rick Nelson?
Henry Loconti [01:08:00] That’s right.
Mark Tebeau [01:08:03] That’s not my- You know.
Henry Loconti [01:08:06] He gave this to my wife when he played for us. He played twice at the Agora. And I save it. I don’t have the album anymore. She’s got it. But I put this away because I didn’t want it to get ruined. This used to be- This was put together by Joyce Alessi years ago.
Mark Tebeau [01:08:27] Oh, that’s great!
Henry Loconti [01:08:29] That told a little bit of the story of where we went with all these clubs. But I’ve got pictures that were taken out, but the captions are still here.
Mark Tebeau [01:08:39] So, Jim, for example, this would be like a paper writer’s dream.
Henry Loconti [01:08:46] This is all the people, the jobs, and the, that worked for us. And some of the stuff that was done. There’s Frampton. That was the club downtown on 24th Street.
Mark Tebeau [01:09:07] Wow. You know, that’s the best picture I’ve ever seen of it.
Henry Loconti [01:09:13] Well, this was the game room. This was the side bar. This is not the main room. Here’s the main- Well, this is the side of the main room. In fact, there isn’t a picture here showing the stage. There was one here. That’s one of the ones I got to find. But these are just, you know?
Mark Tebeau [01:09:30] Have you ever had any of this scanned?
Henry Loconti [01:09:33] No.
Mark Tebeau [01:09:34] If we came over with the scanner and we scanned it for you and just could, and you allowed us to use copies for our kiosk if we asked permission? Could we do that?
Henry Loconti [01:09:40] Yeah, sure.
James Calder [01:09:42] Okay.
Mark Tebeau [01:09:43] That’s great.
Henry Loconti [01:09:44] But I’ve got books in there like that.
Mark Tebeau [01:09:48] I know we’d love to, but.
Henry Loconti [01:09:50] And you could go through those if you wanted to.
Mark Tebeau [01:09:52] Oh, my gosh. This is a historian’s dream. It really is. This is-
Henry Loconti [01:10:01] This was the Rare Cherry that we built.
Mark Tebeau [01:10:05] The Rare Cherry, what?
Henry Loconti [01:10:07] The Rare Cherry. Rare Cherry was the first disco- Actually, it was the second disco that I built. The first one I built for a friend called Faces, and then we built this one. This one here was unique because it had a wall and a floor that was never duplicated. The floor had 15-inch pixels with four bulbs in each pixel. And the computer that was put together by a genius over at Case could operate- We could light one bulb. We had control of every single bulb. And the floor was 24 by 48. And if you could just picture all those pixels. Now this is the wall up in here. And the floor was a duplicate, but it was bigger than the wall. And I could actually take- Like if two people were dancing, I could form a square around them dancing. And if they split, I could split the square and follow them around the room. We could put names on the floor, names on the wall. We could set designs and then put it on a CD - Whew, no CD, tape, on a cassette - that would preserve the design that somebody created. And then the floor would do all those different designs over and over again. Like I said, we could- And when you’d come in the evening, it would say the Rare Cherry on the floor. Or if you came in and you recognized him and you wanted to, or her, now you wanted to send her a message, wanted to send her a message, you’d give it to the disc jockey, he’d put it up on the wall.
Mark Tebeau [01:11:48] So where was this?
Henry Loconti [01:11:49] This was at- It’s still there. It was at Euclid Avenue and Route 91.
Mark Tebeau [01:11:57] So it’s way out.
Henry Loconti [01:11:59] Yeah, it was called the Rare Cherry.
Mark Tebeau [01:12:02] What happened to it?
Henry Loconti [01:12:03] Well, I sold it in 1979. This is when we started building clubs. I built it because I just wanted to build that kind of a floor. And I took the floor to New York to the disco convention. And I got orders, everybody wanted one. But my Case genius. You got to know who this fellow was. When I told him disco, he had never heard- He didn’t even know what it meant. Here was a kid that didn’t watch TV, didn’t go to movies, didn’t know what a disco was. And when you showed him a magic trick, he went crazy. [laughs] Simple magic trick. But he was a pure genius. I mean, he, at 24, was actually teaching. I mean he was one of the- What do they call the help when they helped the professor?
Mark Tebeau [01:13:02] Teaching assistant?
Henry Loconti [01:13:03] Yeah. And he couldn’t build my floor because he was doing his doctorate. And I said, but you’re talking hundreds of thousands of dollars. He said, I got to finish my doctorate. So it never happened.
Mark Tebeau [01:13:21] So somebody else built it?
Henry Loconti [01:13:23] No. Nobody’s ever built a floor like that. Most of your disco floors were nothing but fluorescent tubes that just ran back and forth. And they could only do that. Some of them would go the other way too. But none of them ever built a floor like this. I’ve never seen a floor like this ever built where you had your four colors. But by mixing two colors together, you could create three colors or other different colors by mixing them and having complete control over the entire floor. You could play chess on this floor, you know, because you could control- Every single bulb was under the control of the computer.
Mark Tebeau [01:14:05] So Rare Cherry, though, was a really successful club.
Henry Loconti [01:14:07] It was a very successful club. Very successful.
Mark Tebeau [01:14:10] Is the floor still there?
Henry Loconti [01:14:12] You know, I haven’t been in that club since- I was there one time since I sold it. And so you’re talking a long time. It’s not called the Rare Cherry anymore. It’s called- It’s a teenage club, actually. It’s a teen club.
Mark Tebeau [01:14:29] Might drive there on my way home.
Henry Loconti [01:14:31] And it’s actually owned by the same person that I sold it to. And if you were driving out, where do you live at?
Mark Tebeau [01:14:40] I live in Chagrin Falls.
Henry Loconti [01:14:42] If you drove out Euclid, when you pass Route 91 right on the corner, you look on the lefthand side, you’ll see a big sign there that has the name of a club. I think it’s called Metropolis or something like that. But it’s still there. I meant to ask him what he did, you know, with the floor and the wall, if it still operates. But this fellow actually built everything. I mean, he actually drew the negative, had the boards made. We imported the chips from Texas and when they ran out, we had to buy them from Japan. And he had his students from Case in the bathroom with these wires tied around their wrists and tied to the pipes. And they actually soldered all those boards together. So it was not- We didn’t buy this off the shelf. It was built. And the only thing I could tell him was what I wanted. I said, I want a pixel. And I didn’t know it was a pixel until he told me. I said, I want a square and I want four bulbs. I said, but I want to be able to control every single bulb in that floor. I want to be able to light one bulb.
Mark Tebeau [01:15:55] What did you use to control it?
Henry Loconti [01:15:57] We used actually an old teletype and a computer.
Mark Tebeau [01:16:13] That’s a great story. We’ll have to see if the floor’s still around.
Henry Loconti [01:16:18] There’s the genius of Cleveland, Steve Popovich.
Mark Tebeau [01:16:23] Hi, I’m Mark Tebeau. I’m a professor at Cleveland State. We’re doing a bunch of oral histories. No, you are actually on our list of questions to ask Hank, which is how would we arrange to interview you?
Steve Popovich [01:16:36] How are you guys doing?
Mark Tebeau [01:16:37] Good. This is very, very fortunate.
Henry Loconti [01:16:40] Yeah.
Steve Popovich [01:16:40] Hi, I’m Steve.
James Calder [01:16:41] I am Jim.
Steve Popovich [01:16:42] How you doing? What’s your name?
Ruth Rachel Przybojewski [01:16:43] Ruth Rachel.
Steve Popovich [01:16:44] Ruth Rachel?
Henry Loconti [01:16:45] Always got two first names.
Mark Tebeau [01:16:49] Yeah, this is Ruth Rachel. In fact, I need to write down your contact information.
Henry Loconti [01:16:56] He- They’re doing this.
Steve Popovich [01:17:00] What is it, Cleveland State?
Mark Tebeau [01:17:01] Yeah, we’re working- I am working with Cleveland Public Art and RTA. And you know how they’re redoing the corridor. You know, they’re going to do all that fancy stuff. They had this bright idea that they would do something that’s oral history-based. So me and my students, and there are tons of them, are going out and interviewing folks along the corridor and collecting stories of Cleveland, and we’re going to put them on- They’re literally at 12 of the stops between Public Square and University circle, there’ll be 19 kiosks where we’ll be able to see a picture of Hank or maybe we’ll do some video. But here we do a digital interview and hear a story being told maybe.
Steve Popovich [01:17:40] Oh, that’s more than a Rock Hall’s done since they’ve been here.
Mark Tebeau [01:17:46] Your story is one that Hank mentioned in his last interview, and we’d love to hear-
Steve Popovich [01:17:52] Yeah, whatever. I’m upstairs.
Mark Tebeau [01:17:54] What’s your number, Steve?
Steve Popovich [01:17:55] 216–432–9170.
Henry Loconti [01:18:01] He’s right here in the building on the fourth floor. Cleveland International Records.
Mark Tebeau [01:18:10] One of the things we’re doing is trying to recover all of the local lore, unlike the Rock Hall.
Steve Popovich [01:18:17] Well, that’s a brilliant move on your part. Yeah. Because that’s one beef we’ve all had with them. You know, anyone that was anything in the local business here, these guys are so snobbish. Is that mic on? [crosstalk]
Mark Tebeau [01:18:32] So Steve, I’m going to call you.
Henry Loconti [01:18:35] Yeah. The name that I remember is Fats Domino. [recording pauses and resumes] Shenandoah, Billy Joel. And we had Wolfman Jack as the emcee. Everything going for you.
Steve Popovich [01:18:50] That was your problem.
James Calder [01:18:52] Nice to meet you. [crosstalk]
Steve Popovich [01:18:56] You have a studio down there, if that’s easier?
Mark Tebeau [01:18:59] We do have a studio where we do typically do the interview. So we just come out here because this is actually- This space is pretty decent.
James Calder [01:19:07] What do you teach there?
Mark Tebeau [01:19:08] History- This is part of the history- [remainder of recording captures parts of two separate conversations]
Henry Loconti [01:19:12] The oldies, the Turtles, Tommy James, the Association, the Buckinghams, Canada Flashbacks,
Steve Popovich [01:19:20] -interviews like Johnny Cash that no one else has. Paycheck, when I ran Polygram down in Nashville. And I’ve got Christopherson- [inaudible]
James Calder [01:19:29] Are these just all sorts of-
Henry Loconti [01:19:31] These are just outdoor shows we did. This one here was a big one.
James Calder [01:19:35] Where did you have the outdoor shows? [crosstalk]
Henry Loconti [01:19:37] Well, this was done- Most of our shows were done at Buckeye Lake Music Center.
James Calder [01:19:43] Okay.
Henry Loconti [01:19:43] And so we did the Grateful Dead there four times. We did Jimmy Buffett, Van Halen. We did the Warp Tour. [crosstalk] This show here was for the 30th anniversary, the 101st Airborne at Fort Campbell, Kentucky.
Steve Popovich [01:20:07] I want to catalog all this.
Mark Tebeau [01:20:08] Yeah, we can. I’ll talk to my colleague Mark who does internships.
Henry Loconti [01:20:12] It was really what you would call a slumgullion or a stew, because you put Joe Cocker with Pure Prairie [League] and Rufus. And then you bring in Earl Scruggs and Barbie Benton on the same show.
James Calder [01:20:26] Did you ever have problems with it? Booking too many kind of different types of music, I guess, or different styles of people ever clash?
Henry Loconti [01:20:33] Well, this was done because when you’re dealing with the 101st Airborne, you’ve got to bring a little bit of everything. Who are you going to throw the show for? Country? So you had to mix it up.
Ruth Rachel Przbojewski [01:20:57] That, like, restaurant that your mom owned in Garfield. Like, where is it? Because I live in Garfield.
Henry Loconti [01:21:02] You know where Garfield park is on Euclid Avenue? I mean, on Broadway.
Ruth Rachel Przbojewski [01:21:06] Yeah.
Henry Loconti [01:21:07] There’s still the restaurant that’s there that was next door to her is still there, but the. Her restaurant’s an empty lot now. Oh, okay. It’s 114th.
Ruth Rachel Przbojewski [01:21:13] Oh, okay.
Henry Loconti [01:21:14] It was 11402 Broadway.
Ruth Rachel Przbojewski [01:21:17] Oh, okay.
Henry Loconti [01:21:19] It was 11402 Broadway.
Ruth Rachel Przbojewski [01:21:21] Oh, wow.
Henry Loconti [01:21:22] And the park, the big park is right across the street. You walk through the park. There used to be a lake over there where they used to have rowboats.
Ruth Rachel Przbojewski [01:21:30] Oh, okay, yeah.
Henry Loconti [01:21:31] And we were right across the street from the park.
Mark Tebeau [01:21:36] Well, we’ve been talking to you for a-
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