Abstract
Doris Allen was originally born in Shelby, Alabama, and moved to Cleveland when she was two years old. She had a very established great uncle living in Cleveland, Robert Hardy, who was the first African American to own property east of East 55th Street in Cleveland. Her father was drafted into the Army when she was 9, and their family moved back to the South for one year while he served. She returned to Cleveland, moved into the Glenville neighborhood. She enjoyed her education in Glenville, which, at the time was going through a "transition." Their neighbors were mostly Jewish. When she was married and had children, she and her husband sought out housing through an unspecified real estate agency that steered them towards buying a home in Shaker Heights, though they wanted to live in Cleveland Heights. When they found a home they wanted to buy in Cleveland Heights, the agent was not pleased and said the house would be $2,000 more expensive. The original homeowners, however, sold the house to the Allens for the original price. The Allens were the first black family on the street and one of the first in the community. Their children were repeatedly stopped and questioned by the police, and in one case men with swastikas bombarded the YWCA in retaliation to integration of the Heights. They began the Committee to Improve Community Relations (CICR) to raise awareness of the discriminatory instances, and how to properly assess them.
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Interviewee
Allen, Doris (interviewee)
Interviewer
Hallowell, Bethany (interviewer)
Project
Provost Summer Program
Date
8-4-2013
Document Type
Oral History
Duration
71 minutes
Recommended Citation
"Doris Allen Interview, 4 August 2013" (2013). Cleveland Regional Oral History Collection. Interview 990052.
https://engagedscholarship.csuohio.edu/crohc000/422
Transcript
Transcription sponsored by Rev. Dr. David B. and Angela B. Bowie
Bethany Hollowell [00:00:03] Today is Sunday, August 4th. I am in the home of Miss Doris Allen in Cleveland Heights. My name is Bethany Hollowell. Would you mind stating your full name for the record?
Doris Allen [00:00:15] Yes, it's Doris Maxine Allen.
Bethany Hollowell [00:00:19] OK. Would you please begin by telling me where you were born and what year.
Doris Allen [00:00:26] I was born in Shelby, Alabama, 1935, March 11th, 1935.
Bethany Hollowell [00:00:33] And what was it like in Alabama at that time?
Doris Allen [00:00:35] I have no idea. My parents migrated to Cleveland when I was 2 years old. And all I know is that I went back every summer for a three week vacation with my paternal grandfather, that I was young and, you know, I helped gather the eggs and milk the cows and ride the horses and that kind of thing, slop the pigs in the summer. That was part of my vacation to go back to his farm.
Bethany Hollowell [00:01:08] What did your parents come to Cleveland for?
Doris Allen [00:01:11] Because my grandparents, my great uncle - my grandmother's brother - was the first one to migrate to Cleveland. And he was the first black man to own any property or business east of 55th. So it was the custom then for black people. Once they began to do well, they would bring the rest of the family. So he brought a sister who was my grandmother, her husband and her children who were still in school here. And they lived in an apartment in one of the buildings he owned. And then as he amassed property, he brought the rest of the family here. So, you know, his mother and his niece. And then my parents and that's how we got here.
Bethany Hollowell [00:02:04] What what was your great uncle's name?
Doris Allen [00:02:06] Robert Hardy.
Bethany Hollowell [00:02:07] And what was his business?
Doris Allen [00:02:10] Real estate. He built homes. He lived in Euclid, Ohio. He built three houses there and that's where he and his wife... They never had any children. So I used to go out there on weekends. He didn't... His chauffeur would come and pick me up because I don't remember my uncle ever driving. I don't even know if he knew how to drive. But he always had the really luxury cars and the chauffeur and I would go and spend the weekends. I had a pet goat and a pet chicken and he raised chickens out [there] because you could do that then. But it used to seem like forever when we were driving there... even [though it] was Euclid, Ohio. It wasn't... The streets weren't paved like they are now. It was a long time, as you know. Are we there yet? It's my one of my favorite questions.
Bethany Hollowell [00:03:09] What did your grandparents do?
Doris Allen [00:03:12] My grandfather my grandfather worked for the railroad. And my grandmother was a homemaker.
Bethany Hollowell [00:03:23] And then what did your parents do when they first came to Cleveland and then what were they doing when you lived in Shelby, Alabama?
Doris Allen [00:03:32] I have no idea. I was 2 when we came here, so I have no idea. And my father... All I know is I he eventually worked for the YMCA.
Bethany Hollowell [00:03:46] So when you first came to Cleveland from Shelby a year or two or three, do you remember where you guys lived?
Doris Allen [00:03:58] Yeah. We lived in an apartment building that my uncle owned on East 85th Street.
Bethany Hollowell [00:04:09] [inaudible].
Doris Allen [00:04:11] Cedar. It was 2155 Cedar or East 85th pardon, off Cedar.
Bethany Hollowell [00:04:20] Do you remember what the house looked like?
Doris Allen [00:04:22] It was a huge apartment building. It was about I think it was. It must have had about probably about twenty four suites in it.
Bethany Hollowell [00:04:34] And who were the other tenants? Did your other family members work there?
Doris Allen [00:04:38] No. Just just the only people who lived in that apartment building was my grandmother and her family, my mother and my father and then my. His mother and an aunt they lived in another apartment building. I guess you would be like the custodians, you know, so you save your money. The whole idea was that each of his family members would save their money and purchase their own piece of property. That was... Owning a piece of property was very important to my family.
Bethany Hollowell [00:05:14] So while you were living on East 85th street, your parents were saving and working?
Doris Allen [00:05:23] Well, yes. And then the only thing I can remember is my father worked for the YMCA. I don't know when he worked there or when my mother worked in private family. You know, when I was 9, my father went into service. He was drafted into the Navy and then we went back down south and we stayed there for a year.
Bethany Hollowell [00:05:53] He went back down south. Why did you go back down there?
Doris Allen [00:05:57] Well, I guess because my mother wanted us to have a closer relationship with his family because my father's family was all there because she could save more money, because we lived in a house that her father built when she was a child.
Bethany Hollowell [00:06:18] So how old were you when you went back down to Alabama?
Doris Allen [00:06:21] Nine.
Bethany Hollowell [00:06:22] Do you remember what it was like going back? The difference between up north and then down south.
Doris Allen [00:06:30] There wasn't much difference for me. I know that we were treated differently because we were those kids from up north. So we didn't respond to white people the way that black people... They were accustom to and they were always - white people - always making excuses for us and say, oh, those are those kids from up north. So, you know. But I know there were no significant... Nothing significant happened while we were there.
Bethany Hollowell [00:07:11] I had an interview with someone whose family lived down south and he lived up north and then when he visited, when he was younger and he would talk to the white people down south and his cousins were shocked he was actually making starting a conversation and approaching to say hi to a white person in the South at those times. So that's the way that they.
Doris Allen [00:07:35] Well, my grandfather my father's father was a very respected business man. So I guess that's part of the reason that we weren't... That we... Part of it was that we came from the north. And part of it was that they they respected him.
Bethany Hollowell [00:07:54] What did he do? What did you make?
Doris Allen [00:07:57] Farming.
Bethany Hollowell [00:08:01] So after one year, you moved back up to Cleveland did you go back to 85th Street.
Doris Allen [00:08:08] No. My parents bought their own house. And we lived in the Glenville area area. [crosstalk] on Earl. Earl Avenue. My sister still lives in the house.
Doris Allen [00:08:25] Really? And then what was the house like?
Doris Allen [00:08:29] It's a big ole house. Four big bedrooms. A reception room, a living room, a dining room, a huge kitchen. So it was it was a very... It was a big house.
Bethany Hollowell [00:08:44] Did they build the house?
Doris Allen [00:08:45] No, no, no. The community was in transition. Then there was basically a Jewish community, an orthodox Jewish community and I went to Glenville and there were very few blacks in the school at that time.
Bethany Hollowell [00:09:04] So you were ten or eleven...
Doris Allen [00:09:07] Ten. I was ten when I was in elementary. I was still in elementary school. I think I was fifth grade. Miles Standish. It's now. I think it's Michael White now.
Bethany Hollowell [00:09:21] Do you have any fond memories from that school?
Doris Allen [00:09:25] I loved it. I loved it. I do remember that the minute we came back and my mother enrolled us in the school, that because we came from it, we had been in a southern school which was considered inferior. They tested us right away to see if I should be in the fifth grade and we tested off the charts. So no problem there. But I do remember that.
Bethany Hollowell [00:09:54] You have siblings?
Doris Allen [00:09:55] Yes. I'm the oldest of five. I have three brothers and one sister.
Bethany Hollowell [00:10:02] And. Were any of them born in the south?
Doris Allen [00:10:08] Only my brother next to me was two years younger than me. He was the only one born in the south. The others were born here.
Bethany Hollowell [00:10:16] What hospital were they born at.
Doris Allen [00:10:20] I have no idea.
Bethany Hollowell [00:10:22] So. Eddie, Eddie Road you said you lived on.
Doris Allen [00:10:27] No. Earl.
Bethany Hollowell [00:10:27] I'm sorry, Earl. What were what were the kinds of things you guys did as kids in Glenville? Parks or anything?
Doris Allen [00:10:37] Yeah, we did. Rockefeller Park. That was it was a huge park, of course, it's the cultural park. It has lots of cultural statues in it. Oh, yeah. Picnics. He went on picnics on holidays. We rode the bus to Euclid Beach or... Then we we usually took the bus wherever we were going as children. We took the bus to our church. That was in... That was on 89th and Cedar. So but we just did the things [like] roller skating and at the roller skating rink. Stuff like that.
Bethany Hollowell [00:11:19] You remember what rink.
Doris Allen [00:11:21] It was called the Pla-Mor then.
Bethany Hollowell [00:11:26] What was that like?
Doris Allen [00:11:28] Oh, it was fun, you know. Learn how to dance on skates, how to dance to music and that kind of stuff. When you met friends, their friends who weren't friends, but the same people every week, acquaintances. So you knew you had a relationship with because you saw them every week.
Bethany Hollowell [00:11:45] Where was Pla-Mor located?
Doris Allen [00:11:49] Don't ask me. I don't even remember where it was located, but somewhere in and in the Cedar area. Let's see. We went to the movies. Things like that.
Bethany Hollowell [00:12:05] Pla-Mor has now moved to the Euclid area.
Doris Allen [00:12:07] I don't know where it is. I have no idea.
Bethany Hollowell [00:12:09] It's still around
Doris Allen [00:12:10] OK, I'm surprised. I'm surprised. Yeah. We grew up roller skating. Now, my children don't know anything about roller skating, but they all ice skate. So it's just what was available in the community.
Bethany Hollowell [00:12:27] Did you ever ice skate?
Bethany Hollowell [00:12:29] No. There were no rinks in the in the ghetto, in the black community, no skiing, no nothing like that.
Bethany Hollowell [00:12:39] Half of the reason I ask is because. I want to say it was Kingsbury Run or what would have been Woodland Hills, which is [inaudible]. I believe that ice skating...
Doris Allen [00:12:54] Oh, maybe so. OK, OK. But [inaudible] Park, that park didn't even come about until I was an adult.
Bethany Hollowell [00:13:05] Well, then maybe it was just a part of it. So I'm very interested in your great uncle. Obviously an entrepreneur in real estate. Could you tell me a little bit about what he was like?
Doris Allen [00:13:24] Well, like, as I said, he was he was married. They never had any children. So they really doted on my sister and me. I think when I was 14, maybe I worked in his office, real estate office. I collected rents and rents were twelve fifty a week. And I would go on the bus. I would ride the bus from his office on 79th and Cedar to 85th to 86th to 83rd to all the apartment buildings and collect rents and the money would be in a brown paper bag. Everybody knew what I was doing. Nobody ever. I had safe passage. The word on the street was nobody better touch or... So I would collect rents. And if there was a vacant property, then I would assess the property and see if it needed to be painted, what it needed. And that kind of thing. Write it down. And when I got back to the office, I would write all that stuff down so that he would have access to where the people were going and do what they had to do to rent it to the next person. So I loved the job. I made a bundle of money. Made twenty five dollars a week. And that was after school. You could work a couple hours after school. But boy, I was rich,.
Bethany Hollowell [00:14:57] For a fourteen year old, especially when people are paying twleve...
Doris Allen [00:15:00] Twelve fifty for rent, Yeah. Right. Yes. Yes. So. And he lived in Euclid, Ohio. And he he raised chickens in one of his properties. There was a poultry store and he sold his chickens to that poultry store. Then when he decided he wasn't going to raise chickens anymore, he converted the chicken house into a little house for me with a living room, a bed room and a screened in porch, no kitchen, or anything. Because when I went out on the weekends, I could always take friends with me. My friends could go out with me. We called it... It was a country. So, um, that's. That was about it. We went out and play with the goat and the chicken and.
Bethany Hollowell [00:15:50] Is his home still standing?
Doris Allen [00:15:52] I don't know. I don't have any idea. He built three homes side by side. I don't know if they're still there or not. I've never even... I've never... I never... I guess I just didn't have any desire to see if we're still standing.
Bethany Hollowell [00:16:11] Well, he was a great uncle, so he was probably older than your parents obviously.
Doris Allen [00:16:16] Oh, yes. Yes. But he passed at a very... I think he passed when he was fifty two. And I I can't remember what paper... In some paper they wrote him up. It was in the summer. I think it was a summer of '50 that he passed and I remember. I remember reading the obituary saying that he was the first black man to own any property or businesses east of 55th. But I think he was he was very young when he died.
Bethany Hollowell [00:16:53] His office was on 79th and Cedar you said.
Doris Allen [00:16:54] Uh-huh
Bethany Hollowell [00:16:56] What was the name of the office or the company?
Doris Allen [00:17:00] I don't I don't remember I I just remember it was in a frame house and downstairs was one part and upstairs was like where we kept books where their receipts were written and that kind of thing. So but I don't know if there was a formal name. I'm sure there was. I just didn't know what it was.
Bethany Hollowell [00:17:22] And these tenants they were collecting from, were they mostly African-Americans?
Doris Allen [00:17:28] Yes. Yes, they were.
Bethany Hollowell [00:17:33] You said you took the bus to church. Which church did you...
Doris Allen [00:17:37] Antioch.That's where I was baptized and that's where I was married. Antioch on 89th and Cedar.
Bethany Hollowell [00:17:45] Are you still connected with the church?
Doris Allen [00:17:47] Not at Antioch. No. I go to church in Cleveland Heights.
Bethany Hollowell [00:17:55] So going back to your home in Glenville, so you had four younger siblings and you said that the area was going through a transition. Could you comment on how you could tell that this transition was going on?
Doris Allen [00:18:15] Yes. One of one of the ways I could tell is that the Jewish temples... Some of the Jewish temples were being purchased by black churches. So that's that's a good sign of transition. But that took some time before before that happened. When we moved in the neighborhood, we had Jewish neighbors and across the street and on each side of us and I remember going to school and we would walk in the street. The one thing that I remember that is going to school in the morning, in the spring, in the summer, the doors would be open and you could hear the Jewish prayers, the men chanting the prayers in Hebrew, which was... Something about that was very comforting. And the Jewish mothers would come out on the porch and say, don't walk in the street, get out of the street, and we'd get out of the street until we got out of their sight and then we'd get back in the street. I don't know why we walked on the street in the first place, but I remember being very respectful of, you know, every adult.
Bethany Hollowell [00:19:34] Did she tell you not to walk in the street just because you guys were like a bunch of children, or was it discriminatory?
Doris Allen [00:19:41] I don't think it was discriminatory at all. Because we were walking in [the street]. Our groups were mixed groups.
Bethany Hollowell [00:19:49] So you had Jewish friends.
Doris Allen [00:19:50] Oh, yes. Oh, yes. Yes. I dated Jewish boys until I went to college. That's all there is available. Yes.
Bethany Hollowell [00:20:01] So could you... I know you commented that you really enjoyed your school and your elementary. Then you went on to middle school.
Doris Allen [00:20:11] Empire.
Bethany Hollowell [00:20:13] Could you comment on sharing stories from Empire.
Doris Allen [00:20:18] Oh, I thought that was the best school in the world. I loved it and I loved my teachers. I was always a good student. I love my teachers. And I know that at some point my friends and I wanted to have all a Y teen club that was affiliated with the Y, but we had a lot of Jewish teachers and nobody was interested in doing it. But I talked a teacher into being our sponsor, Eleanor Eckhaus [?], and it was it was great. We did all kinds of things. It was a wonderful experience. It was a wonderful experience because our teachers, our schools were very integrated, including the the staff.
Bethany Hollowell [00:21:01] So you had good teachers?
Doris Allen [00:21:04] Yeah, well, a couple, a couple, yeah. Yes.
Bethany Hollowell [00:21:11] So what was the YMCA, where was the YMCA located?
Doris Allen [00:21:14] It was on St. Clair, near 105th and St. Clair. But on St. Clair at that time.
Bethany Hollowell [00:21:24] Was it did it have a pool and [inaudible]?
Doris Allen [00:21:28] No. No. It was. No, it was just like the upper floor of a of a building. It didn't have any of the amenities that you associate with the Y, just clubs and stuff like that. Stuff you could do after school.
Bethany Hollowell [00:21:45] So you enjoyed going to the YMCA?
Doris Allen [00:21:50] YW.
Bethany Hollowell [00:21:51] It was called YW?
Doris Allen [00:21:53] Yeah, that's where we... That's where the Y Teen Clubs were. Those were girl teen girls clubs.
Bethany Hollowell [00:22:00] What's the difference between YW and the YMCA?
Doris Allen [00:22:04] Well, at that time... It may not be much different. The YW was always much more liberal and it catered to women and girls, the YM to men and boys, Young Men's Christian Association and Young Women's Christian Association at that time. There was only... The YMCA only had male staff and the YW had female staff. It's very different today.
Bethany Hollowell [00:22:32] Now that you say that, I remember there is a YWCA on the near east side Um. I want to say it's like near 55th and Prospect, do you know?
Doris Allen [00:22:47] No, I'm not... Listen, I grew up and worked for the YWCA, but I worked in the Heights. So I don't... And downtown then... But I don't I'm not familiar with where the Ys are now because if so... They've changed so much.
Bethany Hollowell [00:23:09] Did you ever go downtown as a child?
Doris Allen [00:23:13] Oh, yes. Yes. Downtown. We went downtown for lunch. Downtown... The Higbees to Halles to plays. Yeah. Went to the playhouse. The playhouse wasn't where it is now or where it was. A few years ago, it was a different building, children's theater. They had children's theater... To the Playhouse Theater. And that was when... Yeah. Severence Hall.
Bethany Hollowell [00:23:45] What plays did you see downtown?
Doris Allen [00:23:48] Oh, stuff. Well, it wasn't [inaudible]. Things like Winnie the Pooh and just children's plays, stuff like that.
Bethany Hollowell [00:23:58] Would your mother take you guys?
Doris Allen [00:24:00] My mother or my aunt. My mother's sister.
Bethany Hollowell [00:24:03] So she lived here, your mother's sister?
Doris Allen [00:24:06] My mother had two sisters. She lived on North Boulevard in the Glenville area. And she didn't have any children, so she was single. Well, I guess I was the first girl in the family, so I got a lot of perks that my sister didn't get. And we're very different. So different. My sister was always a tomboy. I was always a girly girl. So she wasn't interested. We were not interested in the same things.
Bethany Hollowell [00:24:42] From my understanding is that there were I guess you could maybe see alternative places where black families - African-American families - would go to because there were certain places where it was kind of... The way it was, they were discriminatory, segregated, they were segregated places. And so they were kind of like considered black alternative places, for example, Pla-Mor. It's kind of the alternative. Could you kind of comment or share with me any places where it was when you looked around, it was mostly blacks and in places where, you know, you guys maybe weren't permitted to go or that you didn't go to.
Doris Allen [00:25:26] Not outside of church I can't because we were... I guess we were in a certain class of blacks, and I think that we felt less discrimination because we had access to some of the same things that whites had access to. I was in the first black debutante cotillion in Cleveland because two of the black sororities in Cleveland decided that that's what they wanted to do was give young black women the same experience that white women had. It's coming out so things like that.
Bethany Hollowell [00:26:25] What was it that you said? It was called...
Doris Allen [00:26:28] Debutantes cotillion.
Bethany Hollowell [00:26:30] What is that?
Doris Allen [00:26:31] That's a coming out party, one for the black culture when you're like 16 and you're old enough to to date. Then you have it. So maybe about 50 girls from all over Cleveland were involved and you wear white gowns and you're introduced to society.
Bethany Hollowell [00:26:58] I've never heard of this.
Doris Allen [00:26:59] Never. You never heard of cotillion?
Bethany Hollowell [00:27:01] No.
Doris Allen [00:27:02] Oh, well, they have them. They're... It's a coming out party... You see in the white culture, they do them after college graduation. OK, 21, 22, something like that.
Bethany Hollowell [00:27:15] OK, I am familiar with the quincinera.
Doris Allen [00:27:19] Yeah. When you're in the in the Latino community. Yes.
Bethany Hollowell [00:27:25] OK. So did you have one? Did you do that when you turned 16?
Doris Allen [00:27:32] The dubutantes cotillion, yes.
Bethany Hollowell [00:27:35] And where was it?
Doris Allen [00:27:35] At the public auditorium downtown.
Bethany Hollowell [00:27:45] I'll have to research that a little bit.
Doris Allen [00:27:46] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Bethany Hollowell [00:27:50] So where did you go high school?
Doris Allen [00:27:52] Glenville.
Bethany Hollowell [00:27:54] OK. Was it... Where there still a lot of Jewish students?
Doris Allen [00:27:59] Yes.
Bethany Hollowell [00:28:00] Do you have any fond memories from Glenville High?
Doris Allen [00:28:01] Yeah. We still get together. We still get together. It was a small class. Like 52 in the class. So those of us who are left, we still get together.
Bethany Hollowell [00:28:14] Wow a class of 52.
Doris Allen [00:28:16] That's not a big class at all. Nope. Nope. Our graduation was in the Glenville auditorium. We didn't have to rent a place or anything.
Bethany Hollowell [00:28:23] Yeah. Yeah. Would you say that... You said it was integrated. So would you say 50/50 or would you say, as far as Jewish... I understand there is an Italian population that was somewhat close over there.
Doris Allen [00:28:40] Yes, it might have been... There were the few Catholic kids. Well, let's see. I wouldn't say 50/50. Maybe 60/40 or something like that.
Bethany Hollowell [00:28:58] But you guys had a good time...
Doris Allen [00:29:01] Uh-huh.
Bethany Hollowell [00:29:01] Who were your high school rivals. Did you have a rivalry school?
Doris Allen [00:29:07] John Adams. What else? Who else? Let's see. John Hay was almost an all girls school. That's the only other school I can think of.
Bethany Hollowell [00:29:30] Did you have friends that went to other schools nearby schools?
Doris Allen [00:29:32] Not many.
Bethany Hollowell [00:29:37] So after you graduated high school... What year did you graduate high school?
Doris Allen [00:29:41] Fifty four.
Bethany Hollowell [00:29:43] Did you go to college?
Doris Allen [00:29:45] Not right away. I got married.
Bethany Hollowell [00:29:47] How did you meet your husband?
Doris Allen [00:29:50] Kent State. He was... I used to go down to visit friends at Kent State, and he was a student at Kent State.
Bethany Hollowell [00:29:59] What was he studying.
Doris Allen [00:30:00] Dentistry, pre-dentistry.
Bethany Hollowell [00:30:04] What were you... Were you still working for your uncle in office?
Doris Allen [00:30:08] No.
Bethany Hollowell [00:30:10] Did you work when you graduated?
Doris Allen [00:30:12] Yes. Where did I work? Let me see. I worked in University Hospitals. Yeah.
Bethany Hollowell [00:30:23] What did you do there?
Doris Allen [00:30:25] Oh. Worked in the kitchen. I don't remember the title.
Bethany Hollowell [00:30:31] Sure, this was in the University Hospital at a hundredth and...
Doris Allen [00:30:38] Yeah. It's still the same place.
Bethany Hollowell [00:30:43] Do you remember... Did you kind of get to watch a portion of that evolution of the Cleveland Clinic right next door?
Doris Allen [00:31:00] Let me see... When you talk about evolution... The Cleveland Clinic was not a popular place in the black community. It was one frame building, not even a brick building, a little frame building that had an emergency room. But they did not allow... They would say they did not have an emergency room for anybody black when... There it was very, very discriminatory. And that's the way most people in my era remember it. And like I said, it wasn't the Cleveland Clinic it is today.
Bethany Hollowell [00:31:35] Wow. I didn't know that. Do you remember anybody that you knew going there and being turned away?
Doris Allen [00:31:43] No.
Bethany Hollowell [00:31:46] It was just kind of unspoken?
Doris Allen [00:31:47] It was kind of an unspoken thing.
Bethany Hollowell [00:31:54] So did you move down to Kent to be with your husband?
Doris Allen [00:31:59] No, no, no, no, no, no. No. Oh, he moved here. Then we we were only married... We were only married for four years. And then I went back to school.
Bethany Hollowell [00:32:11] Where did you go to school?
Doris Allen [00:32:14] Kent.
Bethany Hollowell [00:32:14] What did you study?
Doris Allen [00:32:15] Social work.
Bethany Hollowell [00:32:18] Did you make a lot of good friends at Kent?
Doris Allen [00:32:20] Yes. Yes. I started out going into one: elementary ed, which was a special program for honor students. That was a three year program. But I had two babies by then and I decided that is not what I wanted to do. So I switched to social work.
Bethany Hollowell [00:32:46] What years did you have your kids?
Doris Allen [00:32:49] 56 and 57.
Bethany Hollowell [00:32:53] Boy and girl?
Doris Allen [00:32:55] Two girls.
Bethany Hollowell [00:32:58] And so what year did you graduate from Kent State with a degree?
Doris Allen [00:33:03] No, I didn't graduate. When I was in my third year, which was a three year program. The YW snagged me for a job. So what I did is... They paid for the rest of my education, but that was thr
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