Abstract
In this 2005 interview, Alan Jones, Executive Secretary of the Ancient Accepted Scottish Rite of the Valley of Cleveland (32nd Degree Masons) discusses his career as a Mason; the history of the Masonic orders in Cleveland and Ohio; and the history of the Cleveland Masonic and Performance Arts Center located at East 36th and Euclid Avenue. Jones first discusses his family's long involvement in Masonic organizations in Pittsburgh, and then his own introduction to Masonic orders in Cleveland as an adult in the 1980s. Jones identifies and discusses a number of Masonic orders, past and present, that used the building at East 36th and Euclid, which was built in 1918. Jones also provides a good description of the Masonic way of life and why it continues to be attractive to men living in Cleveland and its suburbs. Finally, Jones discusses the challenges that the Masons have had maintaining the building at East 36th and Euclid over the years.
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Interviewee
Jones, Alan (interviewee)
Interviewer
McCafferty, David (interviewer)
Project
History 400
Date
12-8-2005
Document Type
Oral History
Duration
64 minutes
Recommended Citation
"Alan Jones Interview, 2005" (2005). Cleveland Regional Oral History Collection. Interview 400020.
https://engagedscholarship.csuohio.edu/crohc000/43
Transcript
David McCafferty [00:00:03] Any questions before we get started?
Alan Jones [00:00:04] No, not really.
David McCafferty [00:00:05] Okay, cool. It is pretty straightforward. Well, this is David McCafferty. I’ll be doing the interview today with Mr. Alan Jones. Today is No– I’m sorry, December the 8th of 2005, and we are in the building of Cleveland State University. This is all history for the Euclid Corridor History Project. Mr. Jones, thanks for joining us today.
Alan Jones [00:00:30] You’re welcome.
David McCafferty [00:00:31] Just got a bunch of questions here I want to ask you, and let’s start off with the start of the basics. Where were you born?
Alan Jones [00:00:38] I was born in Kodiak, Alaska, on September 1, 1955. My dad was stationed there during the Korean War. 30 days later, we came home. So I was raised in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.
David McCafferty [00:00:52] When did you move to Cleveland?
Alan Jones [00:00:54] I moved to Cleveland after I graduated from college in 1977. I’ve been here ever since.
David McCafferty [00:00:58] Where’d you go to college?
Alan Jones [00:01:00] Went to college at Allegheny College in Meadville, Pennsylvania. An economics major.
David McCafferty [00:01:06] Did you graduate there?
Alan Jones [00:01:07] Graduated – it’s a liberal arts school – graduated with a BS in economics in 1977. Also was a four-year letterman on the baseball team.
David McCafferty [00:01:17] Like baseball?
Alan Jones [00:01:18] Love baseball.
David McCafferty [00:1:20] So you came to Cleveland in the–
Alan Jones [00:1:23] I had graduated in June of ’77 and took a position with a company here in Cleveland. Joseph T. Ryerson and Son Incorporated, steel company, located on East 55th street. Started August 1, 1977. Been here ever since.
David McCafferty [00:1:36] Where do you live?
Alan Jones [00:1:38] Now I live in Richfield, Ohio. Tell everybody, it’s the best kept secret south of Cleveland. When we moved here, we moved to Bedford. Spent two years in Bedford and about three years in North Olmsted before we bought a home in Richfield. And we bought that home in 1981, and we’re still there.
David McCafferty [00:01:56] What do you do for the company you work for?
Alan Jones [00:01:58] Well, I am, I guess. I like to tell people I’m a professional Mason. In May of 2004, I was hired to be the executive secretary of the Ancient Accepted Scottish Rite, Valley of Cleveland. We call ourselves now the 32nd degree Masons because the general public has a better understanding of that as opposed to Scottish Rite. They think we’re from Scotland and we’re not. But I took over for the executive secretary, John Youngblood, who was retiring. And I’m also the secretary of my lodge, which is also a paid position. So I have two things I do. Both of them are being secretary for Masonic group, and I pretty much run the building. That’s why the board of trustees hires me, pays me. We have that rather large building at the corner of 36th and Euclid. And I’m the decision maker on the things that go on in a building that’s 88 years old.
David McCafferty [00:03:01] Things like renovations?
Alan Jones [00:03:03] Renovations. When the sump pumps fail and the boiler rooms flood when wind damage and rain damage and tenant damage. And people rent the facility and keeping the sidewalks clean. I manage the custodial staff. We have a 2,000-seat auditorium that we rent out to groups. Aside from using ourselves, as a matter of fact, tonight, Red An Orchestra has a concert there. The Cleveland Orchestra used to record there. Deutsche Gramophone records there. So there’s lots of things going on in the building. And I’m the. The manager of the entire staff as well as the responsible person from the building. I’m a member of the board of trustees and attend the monthly board meetings. And I’m secretary of that body as well.
David McCafferty [00:03:52] So it’s a full-time job?
Alan Jones [00:03:53] Full-time job. I would say 40 hours a week, but I haven’t had a week that slow in a while.
David McCafferty [00:04:00] When did you yourself become a FreeMason?
Alan Jones [00:04:03] I joined the Masons. I petitioned lodge in the fall of 1984. I joined a lodge called Newburgh Lodge number 379. That was originated in 1865 or 1866 in the, I’m sorry, 1868, in the Newburgh Heights area. They eventually in the mid seventies, sold the building that they were in and moved to Brecksville. Living in Richfield, it became a very close place for me to join. And I was actually raised a master Mason on January 11, 1985. And I went on to be the master of my lodge in 1990. I was the master, which is another word for president or guy in charge. And you go through a progression of offices and become the presiding officer and then back into the group with the rest of them. I belong to a lot of the various Masonic groups. I actually joined the Scottish Rite, Valley of Cleveland in April of 1986. The Scottish Rite takes in members twice a year and in the spring and in the fall. And they named their classes after either prominent Masons, prominent men, or, our last class was named in honor of our military heroes. My class was the Jacob Kamm class. The Kamm family, of course, is the Kamm’s Corners family. So Jacob was who my class was named after in 1986.
David McCafferty [00:05:38] The Kamm’s Corners in Cleveland.
Alan Jones [00:05:39] Yes. I’m sorry.
David McCafferty [00:05:43] Why Masonry? What is it about Freemasonry that attracted you or interested you enough to petition to join a lodge?
Alan Jones [00:05:52] That question for me is easily answered. And it was a familial thing. My father and his brothers were Masons. My mother’s father and brother were Masons. I have great aunts and great-great aunt. Im sorry, great uncles and great-great uncles who were Masons. When I was 14 years old, my father came into my room when I was doing my homework and handed me a petition for the Order of DeMolay, which is the Masonic youth group, and told me, sign here. You know, you don’t have to pay. I’ll pay. You’re joining whether you like it or not. And if you don’t like it, you don’t have to go. And if you do like it, I’ll get you to the meetings. And I liked it. And I became the presiding officer of DeMolay in 1972. And didn’t join quickly after college, after I became age eligible, because I had moved to Cleveland. And as I stated, my family lived in Pittsburgh. And I always thought someday I’d be able to go home and join my dad’s lodge. My father passed away in 1980. And then that thought disappeared. And I was actually in the fall of ’83, I was at a softball banquet. Being a big baseball player, I started to play softball when I came to Cleveland. And I was in an awards banquet getting an all-star trophy. And one of the guys on my team, his father was a Mason and a member of Newburgh Lodge. And that’s how that connection came.
David McCafferty [00:07:22] What was it like when you were a kid in the youth Mason group? What is it that you guys did? What is it that you said you enjoyed it? What is it that you enjoyed?
Alan Jones [00:07:29] DeMolay, like Masonry, is a fraternity for young men now from the ages of twelve to twenty. And it used to be fourteen to twenty, they’ve actually lowered the age requirements. And much like a fraternity in college, they had their secret handshakes and passwords and it’s a brotherhood. It was the feeling of belonging and doing things for a common purpose. And then, of course, being a kid, we did things with the girls youth groups and there were fun activities, sports, things of that nature. And the camaraderie is really what I liked. They really do stress the brotherhood part of it. And DeMolay has ideals for living that I knew were right. One of the things that happens when you join the order of DeMolay, when you’ve gone through there are two degrees. And when you’ve gotten both degrees, at its conclusion, they have a ceremony and it’s called the flower talk. And this is hard for me to talk about. This is the real reason that I stayed in DeMolay and became active then flower talk. One of the things that DeMolay tries to instill in the young man is a respect for womanhood and more importantly, for motherhood. And the flower talk talks about how your mother takes care of you from before the time you’re born until the time when you don’t want her to take care of you anymore. It says things like, no matter how low you fall in life, you’ll never fall below her love. And no matter how high or successful you are, you never exceed her secret hopes for you. And when you’re done, they present you with a rose. And they tell you that you get a white rose if your mother has passed away. And they tell you to keep it in her memory and think of her every time you see it. If your mother’s alive, as most are, you get a red rose. And they tell you take it home and give it to her and tell her you love her. Which at 14 you probably don’t do very much. And they say someday you’ll find it in a Bible, in a special book. And they’re really referring to that time when your mother’s gone. And I knew it was true. I knew that the stuff about your mother was true. And I said, this is all right. And I still get emotional about it even today because it meant so much to me. And I’m an advisor in DeMolay now. I’m one of the adults that helps for that very reason. For that very reason.
David McCafferty [00:10:19] How big was DeMolay? Was there a lot of kids involved? I mean, obviously it had a very great impact upon you. Did it have, do you think, as big an impact on the other people that you were with?
Alan Jones [00:10:29] Actually no. My DeMolay chapter was very weak at the time. I went through with about eight or ten young men similarly aged as me. And actually most of whom attended my church. So it was almost an extension of the church youth group in a way. But I was really one of the less fortunate ones. A lot of my Masonic friends who are my age or somewhat older had much larger DeMolay chapters. Particularly in Ohio. Ohio is the largest DeMolay jurisdiction in the world. Barely ahead of northern California. And here in Ohio, my son’s DeMolay chapter would have at times thirty to thirty-five young men in attendance. Where mine never had more than twelve or fourteen. His experience that way has actually been better than mine, and actually he’s currently the state master counselor of Ohio DeMolay. So he’s the head of Ohio. DeMolay at this moment.
David McCafferty [00:11:26] Very nice. When you joined the Masonic Temple or the Scottish Rite specifically on Euclid Avenue. How big was the membership at the time?
Alan Jones [00:11:37] At that time, in 1986 it was probably in the neighborhood of 8,000 in Cleveland. I couldn’t tell, quote you for the entire state as I can today at that time. But in Cleveland, roughly 8000 Cleveland fell below 10,000 in ’73, so I’m thinking right around eight currently. Currently, it’s roughly 4,700.
David McCafferty [00:12:03] Why has there been such a decline in your opinions from even to the time you joined till now?
Alan Jones [00:12:11] Basically several factors. One is we’ve lost a generation. Masonry really boomed post-1945. After World War II, when the soldiers came home, the Scottish Rite went from 4,500 members to 14,000 in four years. Those men joined in droves, remembering that the Nazis, of course, banned Masonry in the areas that they held. So all over the country, really all over the world, it boomed. And then what we’re experiencing now is those members are becoming older and passing away. And as technology changed, and it used to be, in those days, the lodge was the hub of the entertainment center for the local small communities. All these Masons did everything in their lodges, the dances and all that kind of stuff. And, of course, as things have changed over the years, and television and all the digital and all the things to occupy time, as well as the fact that nowadays, you know, you’re in two income family homes instead of one, the divorce rates are higher, and all of those things have adversely affected us. An organization that has remained rather stoic over the years and hasn’t really changed with the times. It takes a unanimous ballot to get in, and it takes a certain amount of dedication to join. They’ve reduced some of those requirements over the years in an attempt to change with the times, but it still takes a fair amount of effort to become a Mason. It’s not as expensive as it once was, because the fees have, in essence, stayed the same, while inflation has made them of less expense. But that, coupled with the fact that, like I said, we’ve kind of lost a generation. We’re getting new members now, today, who are telling us, my grandfather was a Mason, but my dad wasn’t, and I wanted to find out why. And they do some investigation, of course. They have the Internet and whatnot. And we are. Although it’s still declining in numbers, we are once again starting to get young men joining Masonry. My individual lodge, which is now Theodore Breck. There’s been a lot of mergers of the lodges as the memberships have declined, much like a business would do. And my lodge merged in 1998 with the other lodge that was located in Brecksville. Last five members we have taken in. The oldest one is forty, and the youngest one is nineteen. So there are younger men joining now. I think that in the next ten years, the steady decline will cease.
David McCafferty [00:15:03] You had said that the people joining now some of them are because of a missed generation, looking to find out what their grandfathers had done before them. Is that the main reason that people are joining now? Is that the main underlying theme, or is there something else? Because you had just mentioned that things like divorce rate, the Internet, tv, tends to detract away from that kind of dedication.
Alan Jones [00:15:21] I think. And you can look at what’s happened to Masonry, much like what’s happened to churches. If you were to poll individual churches, I think you’d see that their attendance is down, that people don’t go to church the way they used to. And although Masonry is in no way a religion, it does espouse personal religious beliefs. In other words, you are told, whatever your religion is, it’s a good thing to practice it. You must have a belief in God to join the Masons, and it must be one God. You must be a monotheist. You can be a Jew, a Muslim, a Christian. It doesn’t matter, so long as there’s only one God involved. Masonry doesn’t care what his name is. Whatever religion you are, they encourage you to practice it, and they espouse good morals, and they teach good morals and good upright living and the brotherhood of man under the fatherhood of God. Over the years, ’60s, late ’60s, ’70s, when this decline started, as the war in Vietnam ended and the different movements took place and things became more open and more liberal, if you will, a lot of people weren’t really interested in the values that we were teaching and espousing. And now I think that, like all things, like, it’s like in the ’60s, everybody grew their hair, and nowadays you’ll see a lot of people with short hair again, and it’s the same type of thing. It’s gone full circle. And now there are people who are looking for some moral guidance and direction, and I think that’s the other part of the reason. And these young men see what their grandfathers did. And in those days, people didn’t talk about Masonry. As a matter of fact, America is way more open than everybody else. It’s top secret everywhere else. And I think, in my opinion, it’s a lack of understanding. Most of the things that are in Masonry can be found in the Old Testament of the Bible. They’re not secret. Yeah, there’s a secret handshake and a secret password and that type of thing, just like any fraternity has. But most of what’s taught is right in the Bible, in the Old Testament. And so nowadays, people recognize that and are more willing to talk about it. More willing to have public ceremonies where in the old days that would never happen. People were tight lipped. And it’s with all the problems with cults and those types of things. The membership today doesn’t want people to think that that’s where we are or what we’re about. That’s certainly not the case. And if you just read things or look at things or see some of the symbols, it might make you wonder when in fact they are just that. Just symbols taken from bygone eras. Most of them very ancient and not necessarily used the way they were in the old days.
David McCafferty [00:18:21] What has it meant to you personally to be a Freemason? What has it done for you? How has it enhanced your life personally and professionally?
Alan Jones [00:18:31] Professionally, obviously, as a professional Mason now it’s going to be the end of my career. My intention is to retire as the secretary of the valley of Cleveland. When I get to that age personally, the morals that it teaches, the moral way of living. And again, it’s a guideline. It’s not saying that every Mason lives that way. It’s a goal that you strive for. Some of my best friends and most trusted friends in life are Masons. People looking for that kind of moral direction are generally fairly like minded. And so it’s easy to make friends there. Friends that you can trust literally with anything. When my wife and I had to make our wills the first time and we had a young child. Some of the people in the line of who would get our young child if something would cause our demise together. Weren’t necessarily family. They were Masons because I trusted them. I knew that if they got the insurance money, they’d use it for my child and not for themselves. I didn’t even have to think about that. And I think I’m a better person as a result. And also, every Mason is entitled to a funeral and a Masonic funeral service. And having been the presiding officer, I’ve conducted many of those services. And one of the things that we say in the Masonic, and it’s a public ceremony, one of the things we say in the Masonic service is that you need to overcome your fear of death. If you know, if you believe. If you really believe in a God that says that there’s life after death, then you really shouldn’t be afraid. And that should be very calming to you. And in fact, it’s been very calming to me. I look at the things that they teach and the goals that they set, if you will. And in some ways, more than my religion, it’s giving me a very calming effect. I no longer worry about that day when I take my last breath, that I’m confident that something else will happen. So that’s really the primary reason. It really has given me a lot of inner peace.
David McCafferty [00:21:01] You said that you’ve. That some of your most trusted friends are Masons. Has the makeup of people who are applying for Freemasonry changed even in the time from when you first applied? Different walks of life, different ethnic backgrounds?Has that changed at all?
Alan Jones [00:21:17] Yes, definitely. When you go back, even I joined in 1986, was when I was, or, I’m sorry, 1985. Prior to that, in the sixties, in the early sixties, late fifties, the unwritten rule was if you weren’t a Mason, you weren’t doing business in this country on a professional level. And as the fraternity started to decline in numbers, so did that perceived reality. Whether it was true or not, I don’t know. And certainly Masonry teachers don’t try to use this for your own personal gain in business. That’s not what it’s for. And as a Mason, I never did. I never tried to get anything extra from a brother simply because I was a brother and he was a brother. What does happen, though, is because of that trust factor. When you do business with another Mason, you have a tendency to trust him to be upright and honest is what you fully expect and is what you typically get. It’s a good guideline in that way. Nowadays, there are much more blue collar people that have gotten into Masonry. Not that they didn’t back in those days, but there’s more now. Used to be, there weren’t very many Roman Catholics in Masonry, and that wasn’t Masonry so much as it was the Catholic Church. In the 1700s, the pope decreed that joining a Masonic organization was grounds for, when they kick him out, excommunication. And that order has actually never been rescinded. However, of course, America being rogue in the Catholic Church, they do pretty much things the way they want and not necessarily the way the Vatican decrees. Here, we encourage Roman Catholics to talk to their priests before they join. And most of the priests will tell them, I’m supposed to tell you it’s bad, but it’s really not. It’s okay. Go ahead. And nowadays, there’s a fair amount of Roman Catholics. Ohio’s archaic. We’re the largest Masonic organization in the world. Ohio has more Masons than any other grand lodge jurisdiction in the world, including England. And we have about 125,000 in Ohio. So Ohio tends to be rather conservative. There’s not a lot of integration in Ohio in terms of color. Part of the reason for that is there’s another Masonic group called the Prince Hall Masons, which are primarily African Americans. Oh, 6, 8, 10 years ago, we started to recognize each other. In other words, Prince hall has come to our meetings. We can go to their meetings and we recognize each other as Masons here. In 2004, in June, for the first time ever, as far as anyone knows, the prince halls of Ohio and the Freemasons of Ohio did the third degree, which is called the master Mason degree, together at the Masonic Temple in Cleveland. And the work was split between the two groups. I actually gave the masterMason degree lecture. Each degree in Masonry in Ohio has a 15 to 20 minutes speech which is done from memory attached to it, which recapitulates what the degree is about. And then further explains the secret symbols, if you will. And that was the first time in, there were probably 700 people to witness that in our auditorium. And that was the first time to anyone’s knowledge. So we’re not terribly integrated. Even still, African Americans still have a tendency to join the Prince Halls as opposed to our lodges. And of course, you’re supposed to join a lodge in your local area where you live. Would make it easier for you to attend as opposed to driving all over creation. And then the appendant groups tend to be more centrally located, like the Scottish Rite being downtown.
David McCafferty [00:25:17] You had said that Ohio has the most amount of Masons anywhere else in the world. How important is the Scottish Rite lodge on Euclid Avenue?
Alan Jones [00:25:26] Excuse me. [cough] Actually, very. Scottish Rite Masonry in Ohio is also the largest Scottish Rite state. Scottish Rite was a creation of the United States despite its name. And there are 55,000 Scottish Rite Masons in the state of Ohio. Our governing body is called the Northern Masonic Jurisdiction. And it covers fifteen states, basically New England, as far south as Pennsylvania and Ohio, and as far west as Wisconsin. The other thirty-five states are in what’s called the Southern Jurisdiction. The Northern Masonic Jurisdiction has 220,000 members. The Southern, about 240,000 members. So just under 500,000 in the United States. But if you look at it, we have 55,000 out of 220. We are fully a quarter of the entire Northern Masonic Jurisdiction. So Ohio is quite large. And as far as the Scottish Rite goes, it doesn’t really give us any additional power. Ohio doesn’t rule the roost. It’s kind of like the Senate, where California and New York don’t rule because they each only have two reps. We do have one or two more representatives than the other states, but we’re not able to. The voting members of the Supreme Council are numbered forty-nine and we have five. So although we have 25% of the membership, we really only have about 12% of the voting rights.
David McCafferty [00:26:57] Let’s stick with the building for a minute since we’re talking about the importance of it. It was built in. It started being built in 1919 and finished in 1921, is that right?
Alan Jones [00:27:07] No, it was, the way it was built was built in two sessions. And it was done that way intentionally. The property was acquired. The beginnings of the negotiation started as early as 1915, internally setting up the whole idea. The auditorium was actually built in 1918. And the auditorium was standing alone in the beginning. Shortly after its completion, they started to build the building in front of the auditorium, actually south of the auditorium. And it was built exactly as designed in the sense that they wanted to build a what they call four story, it’s really more like seven because they have mezzanine levels, but they had specific uses for those, each floor for different bodies. And it was all the Masons in Cleveland area that got together to build that building, not just the Scottish Rite Masons. In 1915, or actually 1918 when construction started, the Scottish Rite was composed of about 1800 members. And in 1920, when the cornerstone was laid on the front of the building, the Scottish Rite was composed about 3300 members and steadily increased after the building of that building. It was designed by plan. The organ was actually installed, I believe, in 1919, although it’s a 1918 model organ. But I think it was 1919 before it actually got delivered and installed. It was ordered in October of 1918, the big concert organ in the pipe organ in the auditorium. But it was planned that way. That was the plan from the beginning. All the Masonic bodies owned stock in the building corporation, the temple company that built the building and the Scottish Rite in 1918 gave $100,000 for that purpose and was a big shareholder. And needless to say, back in 1918, $100,000 was a lot of money as opposed to what it would be today. But that was the plan with the building and we still have the original blueprints of the building.
David McCafferty [00:29:13] Why was it built there at 3615 Euclid Avenue? Why is it built there?
Alan Jones [00:29:18] At the time that was actually the suburbs. People considered Cleveland city proper to end at East 9th Street. And that was an area which was known as Millionaires’ Row. And actually it was the Wick property that was acquired. I think they originally went for the Parcel’s property at 30th and Euclid. Another family had owned and that actually got voted down internally. They had built a building in 1885 at the corner of I want to say West 6th and Superior. It could be east 6th. I get them confused, but it’s where the federal building is now today. That was the very first Masonic building built by the Masons in Cleveland. And when they built it, it was designed to serve its purpose for at least 60 years. We’ll need this to say just 20 years, 25 years later. They actually first started to consider building another building in 1907. So they fought amongst themselves, if you will, not literally, but verbally, about whether or not the need was there. And of course, you have the people saying, well, we built this building for 60 years and it’s only been 20, you know, so very quickly, they outgrew the building they had built is really what it amounted to. And they wanted to be away from downtown a little bit. And the Millionaires’ Row, the Wick property, the main building, was gone. I don’t know why, but there was a little thing there that they called a ladies’ club. It wasn’t a big, huge building. There wasn’t a lot of demolition that needed to take place. And of course, at the time, it was 35th and Euclid. There was no street there in between. There was no 36th Street. And Chester Avenue was a one-lane road named Douglas. And there weren’t other establishments like that in that area. It was all mansions, if you will. And so that was the plan. Out in the near suburbs, not too far from downtown, a bigger building that will be longer lasting. And in particular, the auditorium. And the auditorium actually was designed with the Cleveland Opera in mind. That’s why the acoustics in that building are so superb. That’s why people come and record there. It really is an acoustically superb building. And it was designed that way because it was going to be the home of the Cleveland Opera. That’s why we have a concert pipe organ and not a theater pipe organ.
David McCafferty [00:31:45] We’ll actually get back to the auditorium in just a second. There’s a couple questions I want to go with that one. You’d mentioned was placed near Millionaires’ Row. Was that to cater to specific people living there? Were there prominent Masons who were living at millionaire’s row at the time?
Alan Jones [00:31:57] There were, but that’s not really the reason. It had to do more with the availability and price of the property in a close proximity to the Cleveland area as opposed to millionaires row itself. It was the best available alternative where they had room to build what they really wanted to build. That was really the driving force as opposed to keeping it near the members. The members lived all over this was all of the Masonic groups, the shrine included. If you look at our building, all of the Masonic primary Masonic groups, aside from the Scottish Rite, the lodge, which would be the square, encompasses with the letter g the symbols of the chapter of Royal ArchMasons, the Council of Royal and select Masons, and the Commandery of Knights Templars. Those symbols all are on the building because it was the home of everything, including the shrine. That symbol is on there too.
David McCafferty [00:32:50] Going back to the auditorium, why was it built first?
Alan Jones [00:32:55] The auditorium is what we, the Scottish Rite, use to actually perform our degrees. So when we make new Scottish Rite members, they go in the auditorium and watch a series of really, what are best described as morality plays, a play with a moral. And the stage is perfect for that. So we could stay in our old building for the administrative purposes and have the degrees in a bigger facility that was obviously being required. And certainly as time went on after the post World War II era, we had classes in excess of 1,000 members. So there were times when that auditorium was full of men becoming Scottish Rite Masons. That’s why it went first. It was the biggest requirement, the biggest necessity, and the other bodies could do their degrees there as well. That’s why it went first.
David McCafferty [00:33:44] So the auditorium was built so that you could take care of the events and rituals that you needed to do. When did The Cleveland Orchestra, the Cleveland Opera, when did that start or why did that start? Other outside groups using the auditorium,
Alan Jones [00:33:55] The opera, I believe, came back in the days when they were building that building. The people who were running the Scottish Rite were people with the name of Brenton D. Babcock. He was once the mayor of Cleveland, people who were of citywide prominence, and they wanted it for the Cleveland Opera. The Cleveland opera didn’t have a place at that time. I don’t think Severance was there. If it was, it wasn’t what it is today. And it was close to downtown in the Scottish Rite. There’s a lot of music in our degrees and things of that nature, and it was a natural fit. We would have put an organ in there anyhow. We use it even today. So I think it was a culture thing. Back in those days. The people who were running the organization were in fact prominent people in the city and in the state, for that matter. And I think that’s why that connection came. The Cleveland Orchestra came later, and they came again because of the superb acoustic quality of the building. I receive emails on a periodic basis. I got an email probably four or five months ago from a guy from Seattle. And he said to me, he has ten cds of the Cleveland Orchestra. And he said, I have five of them that were recorded at the Masonic Auditorium and they’re magical, and the other five are just recordings. Why is that? And I said, because our building is acoustically superb and I am not an engineer. I can’t tell you why, I just know that it is. And certainly I’ve been all over that auditorium listening to different venues. We just had the air force band there from Wright Patterson Air Force Base last Friday and had. We had a blizzard that day and we still had 1000 people come to hear them. And you can go sit in the very last row as far up where the spotlights shine and you can still see the stage and you can still hear every little ding of every little bell or every note. No matter where you are in that building, the sound is superb. There’s even a spot on the floor where you can stand and talk and hear your voice echo. That’s actually a spot the recording companies avoid. They don’t want the echo. But it is an interesting thing to do.
David McCafferty [00:36:17] So these outside groups have contracted with?
Alan Jones [00:36:19] With us because of the building itself, because of its acoustic properties. The opera didn’t. They were designed into it because of the times. But everybody else has come because of its acoustic quality.
David McCafferty [00:36:34] What was probably the most interesting event that you have witnessed personally there in the auditorium?
Alan Jones [00:36:40] I would have to say Roy Clark. Roy Clark is a Mason and he came and performed to a full house in probably late eighties, early nineties. And it was interesting to see a real big time professional show there. We’ve had a lot of Tommy Dorsey, Glenn Miller Bands of today, which are not, obviously those men are dead, but their band, and the band name lives on and they’re interesting to hear. Certainly The Air Force band, they’re quite good and they’re nice to hear, too. Red An Orchestra is performing there tonight. We are their home. They do all their concerts in our facility. But Roy Clark was probably interesting because it was such a big show. But we have had some circus things there with live lions and tigers and stuff like that, which are also pretty impressive to watch. Even some juggling type acts where the stage is a big full stage. And it’s a lucky thing because they throw those things pretty high. So there have been several really interesting things to watch and hopefully more in the future.
David McCafferty [00:37:50] Has it always been that way? Where outside groups have used the building even today? Because I. You had mentioned that the building was originally designed, each single floor was supposed to be for one specific, you know, appellate body of Freemasonry. Is that still the case today? How has it changed over the years?
Alan Jones [00:38:05] Over the years, the Masonic bodies have moved out of Cleveland, not but into the suburbs, if you will, much like the people have done. Consequently, it doesn’t get as much use. When it was built, it was all the Cleveland lodges met there. Well, now the Cleveland area is Masonically called the 22nd District. And it’s basically Cuyahoga and Lorain Counties. And in those two counties, there’s probably 55, 50 lodges in that neighborhood. And only two of them are in the city, Cleveland proper. So one of them meets in our building and another one on the west side, and that’s it. The rest of them qualify. There’s another one out on Triskett that’s kind of on the borderline. But in the downtown area, those are only two lodges meeting, and one of them meets in our building. We do also have a chapter of royal archMasons. We have a council and a commandery that meet in our building. The shrine band has rehearsed there for probably 40 years. We have DeMolay groups that we sponsor that meet in the building. And, of course, the Scottish Rite. It’s the home of the grotto, which is another shrine type organization. The home of the ladies groups for the grotto. And there’s another ladies group called the White Shrine that meets there as well. But the real reason that it’s not used that way quite anymore is because those people have all were so far away from where they are now that they wound up building their own buildings in the suburbs. So we now rent some of the space out in different ways, as opposed to letting the Masons use it, because there’s not enough of them to use it all the time. Time. And so we do have tenants.
David McCafferty [00:39:57] Who are some of the tenants that currently work from there?
Alan Jones [00:39:59] In the main lobby, we have the Industrial Federal Credit Union, which is really Applied Technologies Credit Union, who occupies the building next to us. We have the Dancing Wheels. It’s a group that’s run by Mary Verde Fletcher, whose name is very prominent in the Cleveland area. And she started out as offshoot of the Cleveland Ballet, which once was there, too. As the name might imply, Mary Verde Fletcher was born with spina bifida and has been in a wheelchair all her life. And yet she’s very graceful. And she started this wheelchair dancing group, if you will, and it’s evolved into all different kinds of members. They have, obviously, several wheelchair type groups. They have youth groups for regularly-abled children. They have groups for mentally retarded children, all kinds of dance groups. And when the ballet came, Mary came. And ballet, of course, went bankrupt and wound up in San Jose. Mary stayed and she now occupies the entire third floor. We also have the Singing Angels. The Singing Angels was actually founded by one of our members, Bill Boehm. And although he’s retired now, he’s quite elderly. He still stays involved with them. They maintain their office space in our building. And they do all the rehearsals in our building. They actually perform at the State. They are considering occupying the entire fourth floor now. We have some Masonic groups there. We have the Masonic library and museum, which has been in existence for over 100 years. And we have our own. One of our own charities, Scottish Rite charities, which is the Masonic Learning Center for Children. Where we teach dyslexic children how to read. And there’s no expense to the parents for that service. We have, as I said, The Grotto maintains an office there. And I guess that’s really about it for my tenants other than the Masonic groups. But we’re always looking for more. The rumor is now that Red An Orchestra might like to put their offices in our building. So we’re looking forward to that. And there’s another dance group now called Fluke, which is in an offshoot of Mary. And they’re an African American group. And they specialize, I think, in more like African-type dance. And they rent an office space from us as well.
David McCafferty [00:42:28] How has the neighborhood around the building changed just in the time that you have been a member there?
Alan Jones [00:42:34] Actually, I guess the good news is I think it’s better now than it used to be. When I first joined and I would come to rehearsals or events that were going on when I would leave, I would always be driving past ladies-of-the-night who would be over on prospect, occupying the corners in the early evenings. And I don’t see that anymore. We have a lot of security and we still have people, homeless people come and things of that nature. But it’s not as bad as it once was. The area in general has been cleaned up. Its a lot safer now, I think, than it was when I initially joined. Theres not as much crime evident right in the area. Like with the street-walkers. Invariably, when you have the street-walkers, necessarily them. But that element gets in the area and you have more problems. Thefts, car. We still have that problem on occasion, but nowhere near with the frequency that used to occur. In general, it’s improving.
David McCafferty [00:43:37] You had said earlier that back in the day the, you know, the Masonic temple was the center of entertainment for a community. Was that the same? Could the same be said for the one on Euclid Avenue? As far as at one time being the center of entertainment for Cleveland?
Alan Jones [00:43:55] I don’t think it was the center of entertainment for the entire city, but certainly it was Masonically. The banquet facilities in the basement could house 800. The auditorium could seat 2,000. And there were lots of events, lots of events where they would. And this, of course, is all formal. We’re talking black tie events. And in those days, there were a lot more of those type of events. Where I was coming from is, in those days, in the forties and fifties, if there was television, not everybody had one. There wasn’t an internet, an online time and all that type of stuff. And the technology around us just sucked those people away from us because they found other things to do that they could do from the safety of their home and from the comfort of their own recliner, where instead of getting all dressed up and going out as they did in the past, certainly like the Euclid Beach stuff. And there used to be dance halls all over Cleveland. People used to go out and dance, and they just don’t do that anymore. And that’s kind of where we are. That’s kind of where we are. A lot of the things we do, a lot of people just don’t do anymore. And hopefully we’ve changed some of the things we do over the course of time. And hopefully we’ll be able to draw them back to more current type of things. But we emphasize a lot of family things that we try to do together. We just had a holiday show where we had invited children and grandchildren and had cartoons and refreshments and Santa Claus and stuff like that. But I don’t think it was the center of the city, but Masonically, there were so many Masons at that time. As it was growing, we’re still talking a lot of people, a lot of big numbers in terms of people that have dwindled over the years.
David McCafferty [00:45:50] In recent years, or would have been 20 years ago, I think it was in 1982, an offer was made to buy the building itself. And in our discussions, even mentioned that the building itself has fallen on financial hard times. Are there any plans to keep. Are there plans to keep the building open as is? Are there any plans to, say, move it to the suburbs to follow, like you had just mentioned, follow the members out to the suburbs?
Alan Jones [00:46:15] Back in the eighties, the valley itself, over the years of having those 15,000 members and collecting all the associated dues et cetera, et cetera, built up a financial nest egg that I don’t know exactly when the building started to lose money. And what I mean by that is all the rents and dues and everything, everything wouldn’t pay. As the property taxes increased and the cost of natural gas and the cost of electricity and all that kind of stuff have increased. There was a period of time when all of a sudden, the money we actually brought in from the membership and the rentals didn’t cover it anymore. But we had enough of a nest egg built up that the money we annually earned on that money more than offset the loss that we were experiencing, experiencing after 9/11 when the stock market kind of crashed. And most of the funds that we had accumulated over those years, the large majority of them, are invested in the market. And certainly we’re a not for profit corporation, and we haven’t had any problem proving that in the last four or five years. When the stock market crashed, we, in essence, lost about 40% of our nest egg, as many people did. And as a result, we were no longer able to earn enough money to offset the amount of money that the building was losing. So since 2001, every year, a little portion of our nest egg gets kind of eaten away. And, yes, we were very concerned about that back in 1982, they would never have considered selling that building and would have laughed off anyone who tried. Financially secure still served its purpose, even though the attendance was dwindling, it still served its purpose. The shrine used to be next door to us, and certainly they moved. They could no longer afford the loss where Applied Technologies is now. They were actually eminently domained out of there. Applied was Bendix, and they were across the street from us, and they needed a bigger world headquarters, and they wanted it to be there. And the shrine was struggling financially to keep that building. And so they kind of got eminently domained out of there, and they’re now down in Broadview Heights. But we have steadfastly maintained that we want to keep that building. It’s not for sale at the moment. The difference today is if somebody came and overwhelmed us with an offer, that we could be coerced into taking it. We would even consider things where they would buy the building from us, but we would rent from them and stay there, but just not own it. The cost of ownership has grown dramatically in the last 10, 15 years.
David McCafferty [00:49:02] So it is possible that what is, you know, the building’s purpose now would change, and that it is possible that the Scottish Rite and other appellate bodies would move into a suburbs to follow.
Alan Jones [00:49:15] I would say that that event would be possible, but not likely. Possible, but not likely. There are many of our members who don’t relish that, and many of our members that have acquired some wealth over the years, and we’ve had people donate money to change, to help some things. We have rooms that are air conditioned now because of members who have bequeathed money for that purpose. And it’s kind of hard when you’ve taken money from members and improved the building to then walk away. However, we are financially prudent, and if we get to the point where it’s going to financially destroy us, we will get out of that building. In the meantime, we take steps every day to postpone that day or to make it never come to fruition.
David McCafferty [00:50:10] You’d mentioned the shrine used to be next door. When was that constructed? Did you happen to know?
Alan Jones [00:50:16] I don’t know when the shrine– It was a newer building. It certainly wasn’t as old as ours. If I had to guess, I would have said in the late fifties. They might have– Well, maybe even sooner than that, more recently than that, because they’re building. They were with us for a while in the beginning, and then they started to move around. And there are reasons for this. There’s not like a rift. But the shrine, Masonry in general terms, and specifically in Ohio, does not permit alcohol in its buildings. And yet shrines tend to have bars and party centers located there where they have wedding receptions, whatnot. So fundamentally, if they wanted to have alcohol availability in their building, they had to get out, and they went right next door at first, and they built that building. And again they built it. They had a lot of money. And over the years, as things became more and more expensive, higher taxes, higher heating bills, that type of thing, it started to become a drain on them. And when they sold it, actually, they didn’t really have a choice. And when they moved, they bought an existing building and refurbished it to their needs. And even now, that building even still cost… It’s too big for them now. They would probably move again if they could, where we’ve pretty much stayed the course. And as I said, we didn’t really have a problem. As a matter of fact, prior to 2001, the last three or four years before 9/11, we actually took the money that we were in excess every year that we were earning and dumped it back into the building and replaced all the elevators, replaced all the boilers, and did some major millions of dollars, probably $2 million was dumped into that building from 1997 to 2008, and then we would still be doing that. We would love to replace all the seats in the auditorium. The seats in the auditorium, the upper level seats are original to the building and the seats on the lower level were done probably in the early fifties and they’re not terribly comfortable and they’re not terribly well spaced. People are bigger today than they used to be and people like me have a hard time. And I’m not just talking about weight, but height. If you’re six foot tall, your knees hit the seat in front of you and it’s not terribly comfortable. Now when the little kids come there, we had little kids in 1300, little kids in this week for a holiday show from the school system. They don’t have a problem, but larger adults do. So we would love to do that. But Dayton just did it cost them three quarters of a million dollars and we don’t have that kind of money to do that where ten years ago we did. And it’s funny too, because back in the ten years ago, twenty years ago, the management of the group had the money but the reluctance to spend it. Today we have the desire to upgrade in a lack of the funds. So it’s kind of funny how the worm turns.
David McCafferty [00:53:18] The shrine having been next door, as you’re going down Euclid Avenue, I think it would be 3513. What is on the other side of the temple?
Alan Jones [00:53:32] Across the street from well, on the transit direction east of us is the Red Cross. They’re directly east on the same side of Euclid as we are. Their address would probably be 37 something or 3680 or something of that nature. And then beside them is what used to be called the University Club, which is now part of Myers University. Directly across the street and south is a small deli called Hatton’s Deli. The Applied Technologies is directly across 36th Street to the east. And I can’t really tell you what’s across from them. Directly across the south, people go in all the time and I’m not really sure what it is. I don’t think it’s a shelter, but there’s a lot of people going in and out of there all the time. North of us is Key Bank. And Icon used to be north and east on that corner, and they’ve closed that building down. Now it’s for sale. And I think Myers has been looking, Myers has been buying a lot of the buildings in our neighborhood. And actually Myers is scheduled to graduate their class in our auditorium in May.
David McCafferty [00:54:46] Now you said that earlier in the interview said that the neighborhood was a lot better than it was. Is this a direct result of that the businesses moving into the area, Applied Technologies, Myers University, the Red Cross.
Alan Jones [00:54:59] I really don’t think so, quite frankly. Before applied it was the shrine and they did a good job of taking care of their area. With Hatton’s across the street next to them. That was all Bendix before. And so there was a business there and the bank’s been there since I can remember. Icon actually that building is vacant. It was actually occupied and Im trying to think. I used to know who owned that before Icon. It was somebody else before that. But theres always been businesses there, Pepsi is not too far away from us. The real issue is in the eighties the police cracked down on the street crime in the area, particularly the traffic that was going on with the ladies-of-the-night. And although you hear complaints that all they did is push them to another area is the one they’ve been pushed from, you’re happy as pig in mud.
David McCafferty [00:55:56] I guess the last big question I have for you is what do you think, or what do you see the future of Freemasonry in Cleveland?
Alan Jones [00:56:06] I think that in the course of the next 10, 15 years this steadily decline in membership will stop. Part of the reason is a lot of the older members. As the older members pass away, every year there becomes less and less older members. Another thing is people are living longer. I can’t tell you how many people I know that are over 90 years old who are still healthy, happy, driving their cars. And if you saw them you’d think they were 70. Example after example after example where when I was 25 years old I didn’t know anybody who was that old. And I knew lots of elderly people. None of my relatives lived to be that old. The ones who live full lives. I see people living life longer and I see this younger generation coming back. Consequently it’ll continue to decline for a while and then the rate of decline will slow and then it’ll hit bottom. And there have been years where we’ve actually increased in membership. Where we took in more than we lost but far and few between since the mid sixties. The day will come when all of the Masonic groups start to take in more than their losing. Now you can build an argument that says that’s because when all of the elderly people pass away and your membership is down to nothing, you have nowhere to go but up. But more than that, I do see more interest. I do see more interest. I think as I said, in some ways the worm has turned. It’s just like with the hair. When the men start to let their hair grow. And I was one of them. I’m a child of the seventies. I don’t have my hair way long anymore and don’t want the trouble for what’s left of it. And my son doesn’t fight me to let his hair grow the way I fought my dad. He could care less. He gets his head shaved whenever he wants to, and I don’t say anything to him. He does what he wants. Where back in the late sixties, early seventies, there was a whole youth revolution thing going on. Those people are me now. They’re the adults. And I just think the thing has gone full circle. And that, as I said, the morals and way of living that we set as a goal. When people find out what it is and see how we try to put it into practice, I think they recognize it’s a good thing, and it’s not something that you a good thing to be a part. And I really think that it will survive. I don’t ever believe it will be, percentage wise, what it was back in the forties when so many people, percentage wise, were Masons. But I do think that it will continue to be a strong, viable organization, certainly Masons of the United States, with all the money they donate to charity. There’s lots of groups in this country that better hope we don’t go away.
Unknown Higher Voice [00:59:07] Actually, I have two questions. You mentioned Dayton replacing seats. Do they have a comparable structure there?
Alan Jones [00:59:14] Similar. Their auditorium is not as ornate, as old, or as beautiful as ours. Their stage isn’t as complete. Our stage, I mean, we have everything. Wireless communication, computerized lights. I mean, you put big shows on in our auditorium. You can’t do that in Dayton. But before they replaced their seats, they sat 1900, so seating capacity was similar. And actually their seats, although they were newer and wider than ours, their problem with their seats is that they’re big, fat, thick theater seats. And when you sat on them, you went right down to the wood and they were actually less comfortable than ours. But by replacing their seats, they went from a capacity of 1900 to a capacity of 1600, because the new seats are bigger, wider and more comfortable. And I’ve been there since they replaced them, and it made me yearn for three quarters of a million dollars to spend here.
Unknown Higher Voice [01:00:13] Also, being on Euclid Avenue, do you have any feelings about RTA’s Euclid corridor project? What is it going to mean to…
Alan Jones [01:00:21] It’s going to cost us about a foot of our property, and they’re going to tear our parking lot fence down and sit their equipment there by easement rights, other than that, the only problem I see with the bus stop and the original plans, it was going to be in the center of the street, and now I think it’s back over where it is. Some of our elderly members wished that the bus stop was not on our corner. At the end of the school day, there’s always a bunch of young kids there, teenage, and oftentimes they’re doing some illegal things that they shouldn’t be doing and where maybe using drugs and things of that nature, where if you know what that stuff’s about, you know, because you could smell it. And they get loud and raucous, a lot of litter on the property and things of that nature. And our staff, we have to pay them to clean it up. Other than that, we actually have some of our members who come down on RTA. We do have to take better care to keep our sidewalk clean. And again, that’s an expense internally that we wished we didn’t have. But other than that, RTA is convenient for some of our elderly members, too. So it just is what it is. Not a big problem.
Unknown Higher Voice [01:01:48] And just one last question, kind of based on that. How many people do you have on staff?
Alan Jones [01:01:55] Not really that many. We used to have a full-time security staff. Twenty-four/seven at an information desk. And with the way things have gone, we just couldn’t afford that anymore. So I have a full time person staffed that’s there from 9:30 in the morning until 6:00 at night. And then electronic surveillance that we put in. And I have… So I have two custodians that work first and second shift kind of lapped with their days off. When one’s got a day off, the other one doesn’t, and that type of thing. And the nighttime security guy will also take over the internal security issues. When we lock the doors now, they’re locked magnetically, and he’ll let people into the building. The tenants and whatnot have fob keys to get in. Much like many of the buildings you see with security now, we have electronic cameras and digital recorders and that type of thing. And we have security internally in the building that we didn’t have before that we put into place electronically rather than. And we’ve never really experienced problems with break-ins. We have more of a problem with panhandling than anything else. And of course, the city passed that law that made it more of a crime now. And I posted that because we have women that work there and they need to feel secure. And when somebody’s out in the parking lot panhandling them when they’re trying to get in their truck or car to go home, our people see that on the camera and go right out and address the issue. We’re fortunate too in that there’s many police or members of our organization and they have their own groups, fellow craft clubs and whatnot. They call them, and I know some of these guys and even if they’re off duty, I call them and they can help us. Not that we get favoritism or anything like that. If I call the city of Cleveland, I get the same service everybody else does. But I do have some members that I know personally that I call and try to get something expedited or get help when I think I need it. But like I said, in general it’s improved. Yeah, there’s still some problem anywhere you go, but in general it’s improved.
David McCafferty [01:04:15] Well, thank you, Mr. Jones, I appreciate it. You’ve been a great interview and all I can say is thank you. I appreciate it.
Alan Jones [01:04:21] You’re quite welcome. It was my pleasure.
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