Geoffrey Mearns Interview, 14 June 2012

Abstract

In this 2012 interview, Geoff Mearns talks about growing up in Shaker and moving back. He spent his high school years in Shaker Heights in the 1970s, and then moved back to raise his kids there. His mother was on city council and then became the first woman to be mayor in Shaker Heights. He talks a little bit about her, as well as his father's involvement in desegregation in Cleveland Schools. Mearns also discusses changes taking place in Shaker today, especially the widening socioeconomic gap in the city.

Interviewee

Mearns, Geoffrey (Interviewee)

Interviewer

Smith, Kelsey (Interviewer)

Project

Shaker Heights Centennial

Date

6-14-2012

Document Type

Oral History

Duration

37 minutes

Recommended Citation

"Geoffrey Mearns Interview, 14 June 2012" (2012). Cleveland Regional Oral History Collection. Interview 915001.
https://engagedscholarship.csuohio.edu/crohc000/499

Related Resources

Shaker Heights Centennial @ Cleveland Voices

Transcript

Geoff Mearns [00:00:03] My name is Geoff Mearns and it’s June 14th, I think.

Kelsey Smith [00:00:11] Your wife didn’t know the date either. It is June 14th.

Geoff Mearns [00:00:12] Okay.

Kelsey Smith [00:00:12] I never remember what date.

Geoff Mearns [00:00:13] Right.

Kelsey Smith [00:00:15] Okay. Alright, so we’re just going to start with some general questions.

Geoff Mearns [00:00:19] Okay.

Kelsey Smith [00:00:20] So where were you born?

Geoff Mearns [00:00:21] I was born in Charlottesville, Virginia.

Kelsey Smith [00:00:24] Okay. And where did you grow up?

Geoff Mearns [00:00:26] We lived in Charlottesville for about the first seven years of my life through about 1967. And then we moved to New York briefly and then to Evanston, Illinois, and then to Cincinnati, and then finally here to Shaker Heights.

Kelsey Smith [00:00:41] So what was it like moving to Shaker Heights as compared to other places?

Geoff Mearns [00:00:47] Well, I had moved around. As I mentioned, I moved around a bit as a child, so I was relatively prepared for what goes with a move. I was also, at that time, I think I was 15 years old because I was going into the 10th grade, which was actually convenient for me because at that time Shaker High school was 10th, 11th and 12th. So I was joining a high school. And so I was– Well, although I was the new kid, there were lots of people joining the high school at that point. It was. I have a couple of memories from it, but as being a part of a big family, we were also moving with lots of kids. So I don’t remember it as being particularly stressful or anxiety producing.

Kelsey Smith [00:01:33] What kind of memories do you have from high school in Shaker Heights. Anything that’s different?

Geoff Mearns [00:01:36] Yes. Well, I remember I was a distance runner, ran track and cross country. So I remember the first thing I was impressed with about Shaker was how accessible it was for exercise, recreational exercise and being able to run. I remember also the high school was similar to the high school that I’d been at in Cincinnati. So it was large and it was diverse. It was academically challenging. So those were, you know, those were my– Those were my first, earliest recollections. I also remember there was another person whose family had also just moved to Shaker. He was also in the 10th grade. He was also on the cross country team, and his name was Steve Byrne. And so we got to know each other very well and we became very close friends.

Kelsey Smith [00:02:31] What year was this?

Geoff Mearns [00:02:33] That was 1974. We moved here in the summer of 1974.

Kelsey Smith [00:02:39] What neighborhood did you move to?

Geoff Mearns [00:02:40] We moved to Attleboro. Attleboro Road, and we lived between South Woodland and Shaker. At that time, Malvern Elementary School was still open, and so it was technically considered part of the Malvern district for elementary schools, but it was kind of halfway between Malvern and Boulevard. So unlike some of the areas of Shaker where they’re particularly clear that this is the Sussex neighborhood or the Malvern neighborhood or Lomond neighborhood, Attleboro, given the nature of the street, we didn’t really necessarily identify so much with the neighborhood. And it’s a beautiful street with the houses set relatively far back from the road, but it’s somewhat of a– I don’t want to say a through street, but there is a little bit of through traffic. So unlike some of the residential streets in Shaker, it had a little bit of through traffic, but it’s a beautiful street and has these very large– If you’ve ever been on the street, has these beautiful large oak trees that kind of create a canopy over the road. So it’s a– It really is a beautiful street.

Kelsey Smith [00:03:49] Now, you said that your mom was on city council. When was that?

Geoff Mearns [00:03:54] Well, let’s see. I’d have to work my way backwards. My mother was mayor, I believe the election was ’91, and then she was sworn in January of ’92. So she was mayor from ’92 to 2000. And she was on the city council for the 10 years preceding that. So she must have been on city council from about ’82 to ’92.

Kelsey Smith [00:04:19] So you were gone.

Geoff Mearns [00:04:21] Yes, although I do have a very clear recollection of this. She’d been involved in school activities. And there was a vacancy that was created on the Shaker City Council. So she applied for that vacancy. And I remember my parents at that time used to vacation at a small little cottage in upstate Michigan. And they had come home from that vacation, and I think I was with them that summer. I was at home that summer. And she got home and there was a message on an answering machine. We don’t have answering machines anymore. You got voicemail. But there was a message, and it was from somebody currently on the city council. And the message was to call that there had been a decision made. And so she went upstairs to return the telephone call. And she came down a few minutes later, and my father and I were sitting in the living room, and she came down and she had this just. There was just a very flat look. There was nothing that you could discern from the way she was presenting about whether it was good news or bad news. And she proceeded to tell us that she was going to be appointed, that she had been selected. And we were very excited. And again, she remained relatively calm. And then she looked at my father and said something to the effect of, what do I do now? And so it was a very interesting experience to watch her, even though I was not living at home much at that time, to watch her evolve from somebody who was capable of making a contribution to the city to then ultimately becoming the first woman elected mayor of Shaker Heights and serve in the community for 18 years.

Kelsey Smith [00:06:11] What made her want to get involved in city council?

Geoff Mearns [00:06:14] Boy, you know, I don’t know. I think she was– I think she found the opportunities here in Shaker to be, to be so rewarding. My mother raised nine children. I’m one of nine kids. So she was used to having a lot of activity and being very engaged in a lot of things. So I don’t know specifically, but I think it was a desire to become further involved in a community that she found, as I said, to be a very extraordinary place to live. And she wanted to make a contribution, and it kind of naturally evolved. I don’t think if you had asked her back in, you know, 1980, would you like to get involved in politics? I think she probably would have said no. But it was something because of the nature of her personality and interests and the nature of the community that just kind of evolved very naturally.

Kelsey Smith [00:07:14] What kinds of things was she interested in before she got there?

Geoff Mearns [00:07:17] Mostly the schools, you know, with so many kids, and I, as I mentioned, I’m one of nine kids, and let’s see, six of the nine graduated from Shaker High School, and several of my younger siblings essentially went– Most of their career was in the Shaker public schools. And I think what attracted her then to city council was how integral the schools were in the future and success of the community. And so she was really involved in those kinds of community activities. And then she was also particularly interested in Shaker’s desire to not just integrate the schools, but also to integrate the neighborhoods and the community more broadly. And so I think she saw the opportunity on city council as the ability to bring together the schools and the community more broadly.

Kelsey Smith [00:08:13] Was she involved in the schools while you were going to school there?

Geoff Mearns [00:08:17] I don’t remember that. I think she became involved in the schools. I graduated from Shaker High School in ’77, and so at that point, there were still a lot of young kids in the house. I think she only got more involved in the schools in the late 1970s and in the early 1980s.

Kelsey Smith [00:08:32] So once she was on city council, do you remember anything about the kinds of things she was doing?

Geoff Mearns [00:08:38] I don’t. And I know you’re going to speak to my father. He’ll probably be a better response, because by that point I was off myself in law school and doing other things. So I don’t have any specific recollection. I think it was for all of us who were as kids, on the one hand, very surprising that my mother would get into kind of politics. But on the flip side, when we also reflect on it, it was also something that came to her very naturally. She always enjoyed meeting people. She always was very interested in their lives, in their kids. If you talk to people about my mother, what you’ll find is she had a very good memory for the people that she met. And she would meet you for the first time in the grocery store or at a park and she would not only remember your name, but she would remember your kids’ names and she’d remember what you were studying. And it wasn’t– For some politicians, that’s kind of a tactic, you know. They just use it as– That’s just part of their relationships with people. For my mother, it was very natural because she cares very much about people. So when she would have those conversations, she would be able to recall those details about your life because she was thoroughly engaged in the conversation. So the politics, as I say, I think just kind of came naturally to her.

Kelsey Smith [00:10:05] So you went off to law school?

Geoff Mearns [00:10:09] That’s right. Well, I left, you know, my parents, you know, there, as I mentioned, there were nine of us. And there was a rule in our house, an understanding that our parents had with all of us, which was that after you graduated from college, you had one summer at home and by Labor Day you were expected to be employed and to have your own place to live. So I actually left and taught high school for three years before going to law school. And so I lived in New Jersey and then went off to law school at the University of Virginia and graduated from law School in ’87, 1987.

Kelsey Smith [00:10:46] When did you move back to Shaker Heights?

Geoff Mearns [00:10:49] Jennifer and I moved back to Shaker Heights in June of ’97, although I didn’t come back here to live full-time until like spring of ’98. You may be familiar with the Van Sweringen mansion. Do you know that home up on South Park, that large–? It’s the original home that the Van Sweringen brothers all during the time that Jennifer and I were dating. And then after we got married, I had wanted to move back to Shaker and she knew that. And the deal we had was that when I could buy her the Van Sweringen mansion, she would agree to come back to Shaker. Fortunately, as I was able to persuade her to come back earlier because I still can’t afford to buy the Van Sweringen mansion.

Kelsey Smith [00:11:34] What was it about Shaker that made you want to come back to it?

Geoff Mearns [00:11:37] Well, in 1997, we lived in New York together from about ’88 to ’95. Then we lived in Raleigh, North Carolina, from ’95 to ’97. And in the early spring of ’97, Jennifer and I were deciding whether to either return to New York or to come here to Cleveland. Ultimately, we decided to come to Cleveland, really for two main reasons. One was Shaker Heights, and the other was the opportunity for me to practice law. Cleveland is an extraordinary legal market, and so we could have the quality of life that you can have by living in Shaker Heights and yet have the quality of legal practice in Cleveland. But it principally– So it was somewhat professional, but it was principally the quality of life that we could provide for ourselves and the quality of the place that we wanted to raise our children.

Kelsey Smith [00:12:32] What is it about Shaker that you love so much?

Geoff Mearns [00:12:35] Well, there are– Yeah, there are many things, and people are, you know, as you drive through the community, you can just see what an extraordinary community is in terms of the quality and diversity of the homes, the parks, how livable and walkable the community is, and how accessible it is to downtown Cleveland and to many of the other great assets in the city. But the– Probably the two single attributes that were important to us was the quality of the education, the Shaker schools, and the cultural or ethnic diversity that exists in the community. And so in terms of why we wanted it for our kids, we knew that they could get an excellent public education and be in a community where they would be exposed to people with very different backgrounds, very different perspectives. And so for us, when you think about education, educating your children is more than what they would learn in the classroom. It’s what they learned through all of the other experiences that you have as a child growing up. And that’s what we wanted for our children.

Kelsey Smith [00:13:45] How does it compare living in Shaker now as to when you lived here?

Geoff Mearns [00:13:52] I guess I would say a couple things. There are many things that are still the same. There are many things, and Shaker has done a wonderful job preserving, preserving those parks, preserving the houses, preserving the schools. There are a couple things that are, have changed, I think, to some extent now, the notion of being conscious about integrating the community racially, that there’s less of a need for it, because the community now has really established itself as a culturally or ethnically diverse and rich community. I think what’s different is, and a little bit of concern for me is that there seems to be a widening disparity in terms of the socioeconomics of the community. There were always, relatively speaking, wealthy people in Shaker, and there were also people of more modest means. My concern is that there seems to be almost two Shakers emerging. There is, in certain areas of the community, even wealthier people, and that in other segments of the community, there are people who are, who don’t have those advantages. And so, at least as I recall it, when I was in high school in the ’70s, there wasn’t as wide a gap socioeconomically as there appears to me today. I have not done the studies to show that, but I suspect that if you looked at, like, census data, you would probably see that the census data would reflect what, at least what I perceive. And I think it’s in part a reflection of what’s going on more broadly all across the country, the notion that there are two different economies, two different cultures. And it causes me to have concern about the nature of the community and really, the nature of the country.

Kelsey Smith [00:16:05] How big of an issue was segregation when you were in high school as compared to now?

Geoff Mearns [00:16:09] Well, I think, as I said back in the ’70s, we were more conscious of the need to be proactive about integrating the schools and integrating the community. Now, I don’t think here, at least in Shaker, we are as conscious about it. Segregated schools were a real challenge in Cleveland at the time. You may be familiar with the history. My father played a very important role in the litigation to desegregate the Cleveland public schools. My father had been involved in school integration since the late 1950s, or actually, I should say, really more like the early 1960s. And in 1975, in connection with the Cleveland school desegregation lawsuit, my father was appointed by the federal judge as the special expert and assisted the court in developing the plan to remedy the desegregate– Excuse me, the segregation in the public schools. So we were– This was a topic then, since I was at high school at the time, was able to talk to my father quite a bit about integrating and the importance of integrating public schools, even in communities where there was real resistance that was– It was also a very vivid experience for me at the time, because we had grown up always– We’d never locked our doors. We’d lived in inner-ring suburbs in New York and in Chicago, and we lived in the city of Cincinnati. And we never locked our doors at night. When my father was appointed. This, because of the nature of the case and some of the opposition to it, it was the first time that we had an unlisted telephone number and locked the doors. The judge in that case was under protection by the United States Marshals Service. And so it was the first time for me as a, you know, growing up, you know, now as a teenager, to understand that not everyone had the views of the importance and value of integrating public schools that we did, that there were some people who were not just opposed to it, but who had a very emotional and violent reaction. And so that was a period in which I grew up a little bit in terms of understanding the consequences of some of these issues.

Kelsey Smith [00:18:44] Did anyone– Did anything ever happen or did you just–?

Geoff Mearns [00:18:47] Nothing ever happened. My father regularly received threatening mail, and I remember on a couple of occasions having, or on one occasion specifically, having a conversation in which he pulled out the file of copies of the documents that he had actually turned over to the Marshals Service. And it was not only threatening, but it was vulgar in terms of, about him and about our family. And as I said, that was the first time I understood in a very vivid and clear way how serious the issues were.

Kelsey Smith [00:19:25] Did those issues seem to be so– Did they seem to be as serious in Shaker schools as they were in–?

Geoff Mearns [00:19:34] No. I mean, by that time, I think Shaker had crossed the threshold in terms of that, as a community, this was something that we wanted to do voluntarily and enthusiastically. And so the schools were well integrated. The athletic teams and the activities were well integrated. I’m sure that there were people at the schools who were either uncomfortable and I suspect if you talk to some of my classmates, African American classmates, they would say that they might not have felt fully welcome, but for somebody like me, it felt very natural and, and that it had been reasonably effective. But, you know, in other communities where there wasn’t an acceptance of it, there clearly was a very different feel. But it was, again, from my experience, from what I saw in Shaker, it was something not only that was making progress, but it was something that we were really proud of.

Kelsey Smith [00:20:44] Did that ever did. Because you said the sports teams and such were well integrated. Did that ever become an issue when you went to other places to do, you know, for sporting events?

Geoff Mearns [00:20:58] I don’t remember it. I don’t remember it being– Other people may have had experiences, but, you know, running cross country and track, the cross country team was integrated. The track team was very well-integrated. And I don’t remember having any experiences, you know, riding in a school bus to a particular meet where students on the other side were saying things or doing things that made people uncomfortable. Now, maybe my perception of what they were doing is different than perhaps one of my African American teammates, but I don’t remember that.

Kelsey Smith [00:21:35] So do you feel that that legacy of integration has been preserved?

Geoff Mearns [00:21:39] It has. And I think, as I said, it is something that it’s a history that distinguishes Shaker Heights from other communities. That it wasn’t something that was imposed upon us, but was something that we chose quite deliberately and enthusiastically. It’s something that we’re proud of. It’s not perfect if you talk to people in the community. Promoting, understanding across cultures and across races is something that always requires attention, but I think it is something. This is a community where people are aware of that need and I think are reasonably attentive to it. It’s also, I think, a reason why we can continue to be progressive and innovative when it comes to other issues like the one I mentioned a moment ago, trying to reconcile the challenges that now exist because of the separation based upon socioeconomic status as opposed to racial or ethnic identity. I don’t know as if we’ve done that particularly well yet. I think there is– There continues to be perhaps some tension in that regard. And from my own observations in Shaker, my concern is that as in addition to having kind of a separation in the community, there is separation even within the schools, particularly the high school, that there is a sense in certain areas that the Shaker High School is an outstanding educational experience if your children are well-prepared and if they’re self-motivated or if they have parents who are encouraging them. But that for students who don’t have that support, there is a different kind of academic program at the high school. And I think that’s a reason to be concerned and for the reason for the community to continue to be attentive and work at it.

Kelsey Smith [00:23:45] What do you think it is that has made the community so, so much of community? You know, they’ve worked for a lot of different issues together, it seems.

Geoff Mearns [00:23:57] Well, I think there is a sense that Shaker is special. And I’m sure if you asked anybody where they live, they probably would have a sense that their community was special. But I think there is a real pride in the history of Shaker, a real sense of pride in the beauty of Shaker. Real sense that I think there are people who live in Shaker who make a very conscious decision to live here. That is, they, like me, they may come back because it’s a place that they want to raise their kids, or if they are new to the Cleveland area and they’re moving to Cleveland, they’ve heard about Shaker and they understand that there are certain values that exist here and they choose to become a part of that community because those values are important to them. And, you know, maybe I’m not sure this is accurate or not, but I think there aren’t necessarily– Not every community is identified by certain values. You know, some communities are identified by the nature of the housing. You know, if you want to live in a particular community, if you want five-acre lots, then you’re going to pick this community. Or if you want to be in downtown, you pick this community. People, I think, pick Shaker in large part because of the values that exist in the community. And I think that maybe sets it apart from other cities or communities.

Kelsey Smith [00:25:31] I’m just going to follow up a little bit about your mom. Do you remember anything about her as mayor?

Geoff Mearns [00:25:39] A couple things I do. I remember coming back for her first campaign and taking a day off or two from work so that I could come and stand with my siblings at the polling places and hand out literature. I remember also the time, you know, she was– The first race was modestly competitive, but I think she won reasonably handily. I remember then also the time when she was running for reelection and I used to tease her that, you know, when she first became on the city council, she was wondering whether she was going, whether she had the capacity and the aptitude to do the job well. Well, you fast forward 14 years later when she was running for reelection. I think there was somebody who was maybe thinking about challenging her. I think she might have had a challenge or it was a very modest challenge. And at that time she was almost a sense like she couldn’t quite understand why anyone would oppose her. And I was saying, you know, you’ve really changed in terms of your view of your confidence in terms of being able to serve effectively more seriously. The thing that I remember mentioned one thing earlier. She truly cared about the community. I have a couple of recollections with her. When my mother was driving in the community, if somebody, if some kids had left a stack of beer bottles on the curb on a night out late, and my mother saw that the next morning she would stop her car and get out and clean it up. I mean, she viewed the city as if it was her front yard or her backyard. I mean, she cared about the community that way. I remember very clearly it was a weekday and it was in the period between Christmas and New Year’s and we were home with our back visiting with a couple of our young kids. And so we were at one of the parks. I think it was the one very close to here. There’s a playground very near here that the city had built. And so my mother was there watching her grandchildren play. And she thought the park wasn’t in, you know, hadn’t been swept or cleaned. And so she immediately got on the telephone to call the city maintenance workers to come and help, you know, straighten up the park. I mean, that’s just, you know, she just really cared about the city and cared about the community. The other thing that I remember very vividly was she cared very deeply about the safety forces, about the fire department and the police. She had a scanner, a radio in her car and in her office. And so whenever there was a call, for whatever reason, an emergency call, she was aware of it. And for my mother, when those men and women would go out and answer that call, it was as if they were her own family. And she was very concerned, not only about the citizens and what that emergency might be, but very concerned about the men and women who served the city. And she was always very concerned about their welfare. And I think if you talk to anybody who are still in the police department or the fire department, they will tell you that she knew them. She knew their spouse, she knew their kids. And so for her, it was less about politics and a particular government office and much more about the people, all of the people.

Kelsey Smith [00:29:17] So why was it that she chose to run at all?

Geoff Mearns [00:29:21] And I think it was because of the ability to meet with people. You know, I think, again, if you go out into the community and ask people about my mother, what I suspect almost everyone will tell you is they will not– They’re not likely to say– If you say to them, what do you remember about her? It’s very unlikely that they will say, oh, I remember her because when she was mayor, we renovated Shaker Town Center, or we did this particular project or this particular initiative. What I would venture to say that to a person, what they would say is that she was accessible, personable and caring and compassionate. And so I think for her, it was an opportunity to work with people at that level. And I think she understood kind of just instinctively that people want and expect that of a mayor. Yeah, certainly they want you to manage the budget well. They want you to have ideas for strategic plans. But people also want their mayor to be somebody who cares about them. And I think that’s what people would say about her, and I think that’s why she did it.

Kelsey Smith [00:30:35] And now your wife is on the school board. Were you ever involved? Like, what kind of involvement do you have in Shaker?

Geoff Mearns [00:30:42] Well, I’ve been involved in– I’ve not been in any elected or appointed position. I’ve been on some community groups. Mayor Rawson asked me to serve on a group to make recommendations about the future of Malvern. Mayor Leiken asked me to serve as on the screening commission for the Shaker police chief, the hiring process for that. And twice I’ve chaired a. Anytime there’s a discharge of a weapon by a Shaker police officer, they have what they refer to as a critical incident review team. And so twice I’ve been appointed by the chief of police to be on a citizens’ committee to review the policies and procedures in response to a shooting incident. So I’ve been involved in the community, but not nearly as actively as my wife or my mother.

Kelsey Smith [00:31:37] Can you tell me a little bit about Malvern?

Geoff Mearns [00:31:40] Well, see, I didn’t– Oh, you mean that school? Yeah.

Kelsey Smith [00:31:43] I don’t know.

Geoff Mearns [00:31:43] Okay. When my mother was mayor, the school district decided to repurpose a couple of the elementary schools. One was Sussex Elementary School and the other was Malvern. And by the time we were back here in the community in the late 1990s, there then was the decision about what next to do with Malvern Elementary School. And it’s now been used, I think– I don’t know if it’s been sold. I think the property is leased to a private school that uses it. But it was a very important issue for the community because it was, you know, a neighborhood school that– And those schools are often identified. That’s why people refer to Malvern neighborhood or Sussex or Boulevard. So what happens with those repurposed elementary schools was very important to the community. It was a politically sensitive issue. People, you know, some people suggested, well, you could turn it into a condominium complex. But, you know, while that might be economically a prudent thing to do, there were people who were concerned about using it for those kinds of purposes. I didn’t go to Malvern Elementary School, so I wasn’t as emotionally invested in it. Although I do think, and you have to check with my father on this, I think by the time they repurposed Malvern for the first time, I think my mother had helped make the drapes that were still in the auditorium or the gymnasium or something. She’d been on some kind of a parent group that had done that years before.

Kelsey Smith [00:33:25] Is there anything else you’d like to add? Memories from Shaker? Anything? We like stories.

Geoff Mearns [00:33:33] Yeah, I’m trying to think. Yeah, that’s what you’re all about, right? Trying to– Well, I think– What is– I don’t know if I have a particular story, but what is very interesting about Shaker is there really is a sense that people either stay or people come back. So, for example, one of my very good friends, after he graduated from college, started teaching at Shaker High School. So several of my kids have had him as their gym teacher. So the notion that as a, you know, that one of my high school friends is now teaching my kids or some of them have also had teachers that I’ve had and they’ve gone to schools that I went to, and there really is something that makes it seem, you know, that sounds like what happens in small town rural America. Right. That doesn’t necessarily have happened typically in big cities. And, you know, I think that’s one of the things that makes this community special is that people who care about it and whose values are reflected in the community want to come back and want to stay. And so as a result of that, you know, kids are taught by their parents, kids or their friends of. Of the children of their parents, friends, even if their parents are no longer friends with those people anymore. There’s just this unusual intergenerational mix. I’m trying to think of a story that would fit that, but the best one I could have is kind of the gym teacher story.

Kelsey Smith [00:35:18] Your wife said you guys are moving?

Geoff Mearns [00:35:21] We are. So that’s why answering these questions is a little bit awkward for me, because it was the notion, the thought of both leaving Cleveland, leaving Cleveland State University, and very much leaving Shaker was a very difficult decision for my wife and I to come to. And after we made the decision, I was doing something at the university there, and Jennifer was out looking at houses, and at the end of the day, you know, she came back and did a little recap with me and said, well, you know, this community has really nice houses, but it doesn’t have parks. This community has really nice parks, but it doesn’t have good public schools like Shaker. And everything she was looking at, she was comparing it to Shaker. And eventually I said to her, Jennifer, if we’re only going to move if we can find a community that’s exactly like Shaker, we’re never going to be able to move anywhere ever.

Kelsey Smith [00:36:25] It’s a very unique place.

Geoff Mearns [00:36:26] Yeah. Did you grow up here? Do you have you lived here before?

Kelsey Smith [00:36:29] No, I live in Chesterland.

Geoff Mearns [00:36:31] Okay. Yeah.

Kelsey Smith [00:36:33] I grew up in Bedford.

Geoff Mearns [00:36:34] Okay. Yeah. Yeah, it is– It is an unusual and special place.

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