Abstract
Norma Rodgers is a "boomerang" resident of the Cleveland area, in that she grew up in the city and moved away before returning to settle with her husband in Shaker Heights. Norma is a graduate of Hiram College and married to a retired psychologist who worked for the Cleveland Clinic. In the interview Norma discusses at length the desirability of living in Shaker, particularly its close proximity to the city's cultural areas which were vitally important to her and her family.
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Interviewee
Rogers, Norma (Interviewee)
Interviewer
Halligan-Taylor, Gabriella (interviewer)
Project
Shaker Heights Centennial
Date
7-19-2012
Document Type
Oral History
Duration
32 minutes
Recommended Citation
"Norma Rogers Interview, 19 July 2012" (2012). Cleveland Regional Oral History Collection. Interview 915033.
https://engagedscholarship.csuohio.edu/crohc000/516
Transcript
Norma Rodgers [00:00:00] To start or whatever.
Gabriella Halligan-Taylor [00:00:01] Well, let’s just start off. Go ahead and just say your name and the date just for record.
Norma Rodgers [00:00:08] Okay, this is- I don’t know if my voice is rough today.
Gabriella Halligan-Taylor [00:00:14] Oh, it’s okay.
Norma Rodgers [00:00:18] This is Norma Rogers. And on July, what is this, the 19th? Okay. 2012, at my home in Shaker Heights, Ohio.
Gabriella Halligan-Taylor [00:00:36] Did you grow up in Shaker or were you born in Shaker?
Norma Rodgers [00:00:39] No, I grew up in Cleveland and I went to Hiram College, which is close to Cleveland, and came back and did some other things and then ended up married and here in Shaker Heights, which we enjoy very much, and we’ve been here 15 years or something like that. I’d have to go back and see when exactly if you needed it. Now, what else would you like to know?
Gabriella Halligan-Taylor [00:01:11] Well, would you like to talk about kind of the homes of Shaker? Just kind of what they look like, what it’s like driving through Shaker?
Norma Rodgers [00:01:20] Yes. Well, it’s a very beautiful community, so that it catches people’s eye and also their imagination and so on. When we decided we were coming back to Cleveland, we were out in, well, we were in California for quite a while. My husband took a job, he’s a psychologist and took a job at the Cleveland Clinic. We knew we wanted to live in Shaker Heights, although I had not lived here before. I’d lived in another part of the city. But it’s a very beautiful community. So we drove around. We were excited about it and very eager. We knew about some of the various parts of Shaker and we were eager to live here. So we came right to Shaker and looked and found a house. In fact, we found another house in this and we’ve moved since, as we’ve been back here for 20 years or something like that. It’s a historic community in many ways has its own story to tell about the history of this whole area, and particularly about the planned community, which Shaker Heights represents a very early, probably a leadership role in terms of a planned community. Because when the Van Sweringen brothers decided they wanted to get land and build, they wanted, they were very aware that they were building a classic historic community and a beautiful one. And they laid out the plans for how this was going to develop with less expensive and more expensive and larger, smaller to larger homes. But it was all a part of, and they had a determination to use architects and so on. So they took pride in this building, this modern community, historic community, and it wears very well because all of the homes were designed as substantial, well planned, mostly with architects in building them. So it’s a very desirable place to live, whether you’re living in a smaller house or a larger house. And the houses here, as you may know, go from quite small and simple houses to much more elaborate ones. Makes it very beautiful. And of course, it was laid out such that lots of trees were planted and so on. So at this point, and I’m not sure just how long that would be, 40 or 50 years. I don’t know whether you, probably at least 50 years that it’s been in the building and developing and it now. And it goes right through from very nicely planned and developed simple houses to mostly architect design, to rather very elaborate and much more expensive houses. We’re in kind of the middle in what represents, I think, sort of a major portion of the community. So it’s very, very nice place to live.
Gabriella Halligan-Taylor [00:05:10] Yeah. Driving down Woodland, the homes were just beautiful, like you said. They kind of ranged a little bit as far as size went.
Norma Rodgers [00:05:20] That’s right. And as you go out away, as you go east in the community, they do get more expensive and larger and so on. But all the homes are- They started quite close to Shaker Square and then that’s just gone out east since. So it’s a very desirable place to be, particularly since the other amenities of the community and the government of the community has been very good through the years, very responsible and done a good job managing the community. So it’s very good place to live.
Gabriella Halligan-Taylor [00:06:13] And did your children go through Shaker schools or anything?
Norma Rodgers [00:06:17] Yes, we had two. And I guess both our daughters went through the elementary schools and high school. And then our one daughter has, one daughter’s out west and the other daughter’s here. And she graduated from Shaker Heights High School, stayed here and did some college work. But that was separate, you know, came back, lives at home. So that’s very nice.
Gabriella Halligan-Taylor [00:06:56] And what do you say about kind of, did you know about the Van Sweringens and kind of their whole plan and their-
Norma Rodgers [00:07:08] I knew something about it before we came. In fact, we were reading materials. We lived in California, although I grew up in Cleveland. Cleveland wasn’t going to be new, but we wanted to know as much as we could about Shaker Heights before we came. And we were sure we wanted to live in Shaker. So we knew, which was very helpful. We got the papers and looked up the real estate ads and so on. Before we ever got here. My parents lived in town so we could come back here and visit and look at housing, et cetera. So that worked out very well. And we’ve been very, very pleased to be In Shaker. It’s a well run city and it always has been. Not that you necessarily agree with everything that’s happened in the city, but it’s a city you can feel confident has basically been very solid in the way it’s been run and not very controversial within the city. So there aren’t a lot of shocks in terms of the stories about the city as you get in some places. So we were very happy when we came back and looked over the situation. Not hard to find a good house at whatever price range, which is very fortunate.
Gabriella Halligan-Taylor [00:08:34] And did you move right here when you looked at houses?
Norma Rodgers [00:08:38] Well, we moved about two or three blocks away to a house that was a little bit smaller and had a basement and three floors, which is very typical. It was built much longer. It was I think 30 years old when we moved there and this was much newer when we moved. When we decided we wanted a little more room, but we wanted it on not quite so many floors. So we eliminated the third floor at least and have a smaller second floor because we didn’t have a very big family and our daughter was the only person who was going to live with us. So this house has turned out to be. And then it had this nice porch which I said, oh, that would make a good family room. So we’ve been very pleased and very happy to be here.
Gabriella Halligan-Taylor [00:09:39] And did you ever use the rapid to go downtown?
Norma Rodgers [00:09:43] Well, you know, you use it when you need to go downtown. My husband was at the Cleveland Clinic. So it’s just a quick drive through the park area and down onto either Euclid Avenue or- Anyway, just very close, very convenient. So we knew that it was going to be very easy to commute to his job at the Clinic. And it was- It doesn’t take long to get home from, you’re just so briefly right on the main street like Euclid or Carnegie and before you’re up into the hills. And so it’s been, it was great because he could come home so quickly.
Gabriella Halligan-Taylor [00:10:30] Was that definitely a plus to living taking a house here? Was it just your husband’s job at the Clinic?
Norma Rodgers [00:10:36] Yes, it’s very, it’s a very nice place to live because you really are close to downtown and close to almost any job you might have as long as kind of central-city job. And so it was, you know, he’s home. He’s retired now, but he would be home in 20 minutes after he called and said he was coming. And that’s all very nice when you’re. So we were very pleased to come back to Cleveland and it’s been a wonderful place to live.
Gabriella Halligan-Taylor [00:11:14] Did you ever go downtown at all for kind of recreational or fun events or anything?
Norma Rodgers [00:11:21] Yes, you do that when you need to. I wasn’t a person who shopped every day, but if you want to shop for things that are downtown, major department stores, of course were there, which was convenient. And then of course, University Circle is very close. It’s 10, 15 minutes until you’re at Severance Hall. And we were very interested in the orchestra and being close to the cultural things in Cleveland. So Shaker Heights is just ideal. We had symphony tickets and that sort of thing. And you just can hardly believe how convenient it is when you’re going, rain or shine.
Gabriella Halligan-Taylor [00:12:08] How have you kind of seen Shaker Heights change over the years?
Norma Rodgers [00:12:14] Well, it’s grown regularly, not hugely, and it has been a real well-run city for a long time and that continues. And then it’s developed, you know, good libraries. It’s very close to the cultural things of Cleveland and very close to the musical things in particular, which we were interested in. So if you have a student, or music or art, like our daughter is into art a bit and marvelous when she was going through high school, your quick access to the museums and the concerts and the things that happen in Cleveland, and we were very interested in all that. So it’s been an ideal place to have orchestra tickets and go to plays and so on, even if you’re going clear downtown, which you don’t, when University Circle is just right so close by. But even if you’re going all the way down, all the way downtown, it’s 15 minutes of driving before you get into the hills and you’re practically home. So it’s been lovely.
Gabriella Halligan-Taylor [00:13:35] And what do you think kind of defines Shaker? Because Shaker is a very kind of different community from all the rest of the suburbs in Cleveland. And what do you think makes a difference?
Norma Rodgers [00:13:48] Well, I think the special thing about Shaker, which people may or may not realize specifically is it’s a planned community, a well-planned community. And so it’s areas where there are shops and stores and areas of different types of housing or cultural things are laid out such that they’re easy to find and easy to get to. And it’s kind of well planned in the sense that we have most everything there. If you want more extensive shopping, then you go into another suburb or downtown. But the facilities you want to use, whether they’re library or cultural, musical and that kind of thing, you want voice lessons or piano lessons or whatever are not very far away, particularly if you’re on the east side. I think the east side has a lot more to offer in terms of education and cultural, musical kinds of things. So to live just up on top of a hill here in Shaker Heights is very convenient. And it’s been very helpful to our daughter, who is into art and earlier took piano lessons and that kind of thing. And both daughters benefited from those kinds of resources. And you don’t have to drive very far if you’re taking them to lessons and so on, which has been very helpful.
Gabriella Halligan-Taylor [00:15:36] And what kind of shops and kind of places did you go in Shaker? Was there anything in particular that you remember going to a lot?
Norma Rodgers [00:15:46] Well, Shaker has the, of course, all the kinds of grocery shopping, food shopping, I guess you could call it, that you want, and some other. And not very far away in Cleveland, going toward Euclid Avenue and down toward town particularly, there are so many resources at, where the University is, around University Circle and around Cleveland State, of course, just mostly downtown. But it comes out this way some. And Western Reserve University is really just at the doorstep of Shaker Heights. And they have an awful lot of resources available in terms of shopping and cultural resources. So it’s very convenient in terms of, much more so than if you were living on the west side. Cleveland is divided between downtown, east side and west side, and the east and the west in general are housing. But the east side here at University Circle, around Western Reserve University has so many of the specialized cultural things, whether you’re looking for art lessons or music lessons or some kinds of special education, etc. Why, it’s very easily available. This spot in Shaker Heights has been most convenient in terms of what I’ve had to do to get my two daughters to where they wanted to go.
Gabriella Halligan-Taylor [00:17:39] And do you find yourself at Shaker Square a lot to do shopping or go to restaurants?
Norma Rodgers [00:17:40] Some. And certainly restaurants have been very good there. And there are some other restaurants not far away at all in Cleveland Heights and Shaker Heights and in close environment. So your restaurant options are extensive. And there’s several other museums, specialized museums, and of course, University Circle around Case Western has a lot of different cultural educational opportunities, and those have been very helpful. No matter what you’re looking for it’s close by and easy to get to and very pleasant and very safe mostly to drive to, etc.
Gabriella Halligan-Taylor [00:18:40] And did you ever go to Stouffer’s or Gruber’s or anything like that?
Norma Rodgers [00:18:45] Oh, yeah. You just use- You use when you’re in a place like this, usually, no matter what you want, restaurants in particular, some things. We don’t go out every night, but gee, on the pace of the year, you use a lot of those kinds of things. If not for dinner, lunch. Lunch programs focus around music courses or this or that. There’s just a lot of opportunities here that you can use if you want to.
Gabriella Halligan-Taylor [00:19:22] Do you think the art and the music and the cultural things are kind of really intertwined with Shaker?
Norma Rodgers [00:19:30] Oh, yeah. I think many of them depend a great deal on Shaker residents because not only are there lots of people who will use the facility, but there’s a lot of financial support. This is a big pocketbook that serves and undergirds the cultural situation, the cultural resources of Cleveland. And so this is an easy spot from which to take advantage of those resources. If there’s going to be a bunch of music courses of some sort for adults in the area, part of them will be in Shaker Heights or very close by here and University Circle, etc. So, you’re just in a, it’s really better from that point of view than the west side, which doesn’t have- So many things have come from downtown to University Circle, where Western Reserve is, and out into the suburbs out here that your resources are wonderful. If you’re looking for a child’s music lessons of some sort or some other kind of specialized lessons, they’re just going to be around, easily available.
Gabriella Halligan-Taylor [00:21:12] And did you ever find yourself getting involved the community, going to any kind of board meetings or anything like that?
Norma Rodgers [00:21:20] Oh, yes. It’s hard to avoid, if you turn up in town and suddenly seem interested and go to a meeting or two and open your mouth when some issue comes up. Yes, I got very involved in the community when I first came and very active in organizations in Shaker, and Cleveland. But so much happens in Shaker that it isn’t hard to be connected with music and education and whatever other things you find yourself in. And if you open your mouth in a meeting, you have to be on a committee, so on. So I got very involved.
Gabriella Halligan-Taylor [00:22:17] And do you think that involvement, with the whole Shaker community, does that kind of help keep the standard of the city high?
Norma Rodgers [00:22:27] Well, it does reinforce the city as a place where these, particularly our cultural institutions, are supported and helped. And of course, all of them use volunteers and money. And so Shaker is a very key community as far as the kind of support that the orchestra and the choral groups, both intellectual and musical and artistic groups. Art is very important in our Art Institute and related kinds of education. And then, of course, there are lots of shops that support these. So you have a lot available if you want to find a piece of music or instructions, just informal instructions, like in art. Our daughter is interested in art, so she’s taken a number of courses or gotten into programs that reinforce her interests and her knowledge. And that’s fun and easy to do. And it’s easy to take the kids you’re not driving clear across the whole city to take them to lessons or programs. And of course, so much we’re here on the east side. We probably don’t even realize. So many, like the concerts are on the east side because the Severance hall and the orchestra are right here within 10 minutes of driving or 15 to Shaker Heights. So you’re, all year long, you have an assortment of a wealth of these resources, which is great. You don’t have to go very far, and you get a great deal.
Gabriella Halligan-Taylor [00:24:34] And do you think that, you know, that artistry of Shaker, does that attract diversity? You know, people of different ethnicities?
Norma Rodgers [00:24:45] Of different what?
Gabriella Halligan-Taylor [00:24:46] Of different ethnicities?
Norma Rodgers [00:24:48] Well, yes. Yes, almost every level of education and money and interests, all sorts of people. All kinds of people are involved. So there’s a lot of wealth here. I don’t mean financial, but I mean lots of different kinds of people in Shaker and in the larger area. You know, with university students, for example, at Case Western Reserve, they represent every sort of level of background. But they have to have money enough to be in the university. But that doesn’t necessarily mean that you have much in general. But you have a wealth of people with a lot of interest in that, provide a lot of support for educational programs and musical programs and intellectual, lectures and all sorts of things, which is very nice. Especially since we’re so close to so many things that are sponsored by all the different kinds of institutions that are nearby. Provide riches.
Gabriella Halligan-Taylor [00:26:20] My last question is for you, is kind of, how does the centennial make you feel? Does it make you feel proud to be living in Shaker?
Norma Rodgers [00:26:30] Well, it’s very interesting. You think, oh, here we are at a really key time, and then you watch what’s going on and you see all the different kinds of things that happen as a result. We’re not using some of these things as much as we did earlier when both of our girls were in all kinds of classes and programs, although our one daughter still does that some. But it’s kind of an exciting time to be here and interesting to see what happens, even though we’re not key to what’s happening. Because we don’t have any major leadership roles at the moment, or we might have. And at the time past times we’ve had a little more leadership role in one thing and another. But it is very a fun time to be here and interesting to see what happens when you get to a key birthday in the community. So I think, and you see as watching the papers and so on, you see people who are moving right into the community and getting involved immediately because everyone’s looking for leadership and the community is a very interesting one no matter what your interests are, what your background is. Good place to be.
Gabriella Halligan-Taylor [00:28:09] Do you have any kind of final thoughts? I’m out of questions for you.
Norma Rodgers [00:28:18] Well, I think there’s so much here that it is an exciting place to be. Because no matter what you want to do or whether you just like to watch and listen and whether you’re old or young or somewhere in the middle, it’s kind of a fun place to be. An interesting place to be. And there are lots of resources and there’s lots of ways of getting around. For example, the rapid transit, which goes out from town to this area and two or three other areas, you know, goes west and a couple of directions and east in a couple of directions. It makes it possible so that you can go even if you don’t drive or you don’t have somebody to take you, you can get on. If you’re close to the rapid at all, you can get on the rapid and go right downtown and to a lot of places in between downtown. So it’s a great community to be in and have a resource of this sort. The libraries and various special areas like the orchestra and so on all have programs available. They do things in the community. So if you want to go to music classes just to learn about music, or if you want to go to art classes or you just like to keep in touch with the art museums, that’s easy to do. And I think it’s a very rich community from that point of view. And if you can’t personally volunteer or can’t provide financial support, which they’re always looking for, there’s still, you can be a valuable person as a volunteer if you are interested, or you can just go occasionally as you see things that interest you and take advantage of them. Some of them are free. A lot of them involve some kind of support, but there’s an awful lot of things. And they’re excellent libraries. Major library downtown in Cleveland has been an outstanding public library for many, many years. So we have a ton of resources really.
Gabriella Halligan-Taylor [00:30:59] And I just noticed your Plymouth Church thing over there. Do you attend there?
Norma Rodgers [00:31:05] Oh, yes. Yeah. And they’re excellent churches, some outstanding churches of whatever sort you’re interested in or whatever fits your background. And they, too, have programs, musical programs and intellectual programs, as well as the opportunities just to participate as a member of the church. And we’re members of Plymouth Church, obviously, and they gave away those lovely slates, which is a nice thing to have, so that the churches represent a very, because we have some outstanding churches that have wonderful musical programs in particular, and intellectual programs, lectures and so on. And those are all. Most all of them are free and pretty well advertised. And then of course, at holidays and so on. They’re wonderful, particularly musical programs, as well as those stimulated by the orchestra, etc. So it’s a great place to live. I mean, I’m an easy supporter and promoter for Shaker Heights, and not just Shaker, but all the Heights areas and the city of Cleveland all represent, or all the cities around represent resources and for the most part, outstanding organizations that you can participate in if you’re interested. So it’s a great place to be. If I could talk somebody into coming here, I would. And the housing is good, too, so it has a lot to offer here.
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