Abstract
Ruth Kyman talks about her experience doing the initial survey for the Ludlow neighborhood through Case Western Reserve University. She then talks about her experience in the civil rights movement in Cleveland where she goes to school in a church the day they closed Cleveland public schools.
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Interviewee
Kyman, Ruth (Interviewee)
Interviewer
Smith, Kelsey (Interviewer)
Project
Shaker Heights Centennial
Date
6-22-2012
Document Type
Oral History
Duration
27 minutes
Recommended Citation
"Ruth Kyman Interview, 22 June 2012" (2012). Cleveland Regional Oral History Collection. Interview 915004.
https://engagedscholarship.csuohio.edu/crohc000/522
Transcript
Ruth Kyman [00:00:00] Okay. Okay. My name is Ruth Kyman. K-Y-M-A-N. And my maiden name, do you want that? That was what it was in those days, I believe, was Ruth Glick. G-L-I-C-K. Okay? And I grew up in Cleveland Heights on Colchester Road, and I went to Roxboro School, Roxboro Elementary, Roxboro Junior High, and then Heights High. Okay? And my background in those years was I was the proud editor of the Black and Gold, which was the school paper at Heights High. So I love people and I love stories like you do. And so this is fascinating that you found me because I, too, am a person that loves history. And I went to the– I went to Skidmore College and I didn’t like it at all. It was a girls’ school. I hated it. Then transferred to the University of Michigan and got my four-year degree there. And after that, I came back home to Cleveland, took a job at Coventry Elementary School in Cleveland Heights, and I taught first grade for five years. And Coventry and all the schools in Cleveland Heights in those years were very strict. After you had your bachelor’s degree, they wanted you to go back and take at least three credits every three years. It was very strict. And I said, that’s fine. But I started accumulating credits and it was sort of stupid to get all these credits and not get a degree. So I started on a master’s program at Case Western Reserve University, which is the school that my parents both graduated from. My dad was a lawyer and my mom was a social worker, and they were part of the school when it was called not Case Western, but Western Reserve. And it was fine, except my dad was so funny. He said, Shorty – as I told you that I was called, that’s my nickname, Shorty, because I’m so tall – I’m done with your education now. I’ve had enough, so I think it’s up to you. So I started trying to accumulate jobs and stuff to get my master’s degree. And I worked for a while at a nursery school in the summer. That was horrible. And when I went back to Case Western, a professor approached our class and said, listen, you guys, I know you’re education majors, but we’re doing a very interesting study. And it’s in Ludlow, which I didn’t know what he was talking about. It’s in the Ludlow neighborhood. And if you would be willing to be part of this study, we’re going to ask you to go door to door with some questionnaires and we will give you six free college credits. Well, that was a lot. And I was thinking about it and I thought, now this is stupid because I’m an education major and what am I doing walking door to door? What kind of class is that going to be credited for? He said, no, we’re going to credit you all. People, whatever your debt, masters that you’re working for will credit it, which is really cool. So I said, okay, I’ll do it. I’ll do it. Well, this happened to be one of the strangest things that I have ever done in my life at that time. Remember, there were no computers, there was no anything. And we were given a great big piece of paper, as I recall, with all these awful questions on them. And it was so hot out, and we had to take this piece of paper and go door to door in the Ludlow neighborhood and say, and ask questions like, how would you feel about living next to a Black person? Well, that was kind of radical at that time to ask a question like that. You know, my parents, I don’t believe, were too keen on this whole thing. And it was- It was pretty unusual. And I thought, well, can I handle this? It’s embarrassing, really. I mean, I don’t know if I can do this. And then I thought, she six free credits. That’s a lot of free credits. Okay, I’ll do it. And it was such a hot summer, terrible. And I had- As I recall, there were no computers. So we had this long piece of paper and we just asked the people if they would be willing to sit down and talk to us. We asked the questions, they answered as best they could. And some of the people were just darling. And one of them. And I can give you her name later, Kelsey. I just spoke to her this morning to ask her if she remembers did I give her the questionnaire or did I just read it? And she’s in her 90s now, so she’s not sure. She said she thought that I just read the questions. I think that’s probably true. But where is the questionnaire? Is the problem you couldn’t find it? No. Wouldn’t that be wonderful if we could.
Kelsey Smith [00:05:07] I’m sure it’s around.
Ruth Kyman [00:05:08] I have some other names for you, so maybe some of these other people might have them. Anyway, I was a very strong person, thank God, because you needed to be strong to walk those streets. You couldn’t drive anywhere and I didn’t have a car anyway, so it didn’t matter. And you had to just walk and walk and walk and then go up to the door and say, may I please bother you? I have some questions. And the questions were very embarrassing. I thought, how would you like to live next door to a Black person? My God. I mean, you just didn’t ask those kinds of questions in those days. But some of the people were extremely kind and loving. And one of them, I’ll never forget. And she said she recognized me. She said, you know, I think I know you from somewhere. And she said, why don’t you come in and I’m going to give you a Coke. I’ll never forget her. And I- She’s still around. I called her this morning and told her you were coming. She’d be willing to talk to you as well. She- And I said, oh, thank you, Ellie. I would be so grateful. And I sat down and dressed. I was dripping wet. It was such a long, tedious thing to do and kind of scary. And as I told you, I had been involved in one other major survey at Michigan called Rating and Dating on the Michigan campus. That’s a very important study. You can bring it down on your computer. And the name of the professor was Dr. Blood. Very famous man. Now, Dr. Blood’s survey was also embarrassing, but somehow this one seemed more so because talking about Black neighbors to white people, I don’t know, it just was very strange to me. And I just hoped everybody would be nice to me, and they were. So I got through that summary. It was a long, tedious process, and I was very happy when it was over. But that was the basic beginning of the Ludlow Neighborhood Association and all the wonderful things that had happened since then. It’s happened since then. And it began really with that study at Case Western. Turn it off a minute. You go ahead and ask any other questions that you wish. I got my Masters, of course, after a short time, and that really helped. Those six credits really did help. But to me, being an education person, not ever having been exposed to all this really in informal way, it was very unusual.
Kelsey Smith [00:07:45] Did you meet with any opposition? Do you remember anyone being?
Ruth Kyman [00:07:46] Nobody. Nobody. No, not at all. No. I don’t remember any radical people saying anything. They were just very kind. I just asked the survey. I don’t remember at that time. I wish I had that darn survey. If we could only find it. If any of the questions were really embarrassing to somebody or to me. But it was just such a new idea to have mixed neighborhoods because I had gone all the way through Heights High. Never had one black student. One Black student in the whole school in those days, you can imagine. So I wasn’t used to being around people that were black and this neighborhood I don’t think was either, but they didn’t seem to be in opposition. And I think Ellie Poster, whom I told you that I was, that took me in, she’s still here, and I think she could give you some inside information about the neighbors they still meet. And she had two other names that I have for you, honey, and I’ll give you those, but is there anything else that you would like to know?
Kelsey Smith [00:09:05] Well, did you keep up with what was going on in Ludlow after you finished the survey?
Ruth Kyman [00:09:10] After I finished the survey, No, I did not. I was so intent getting my master’s. And then I changed majors. I started to get. I got that first masters. Then I decided I wanted a master’s in art, art education. So I went all the way back to the beginning, and my whole life was taken up with the art school and the people in it and trying to teach during the day and substitute and then get this second master, second masters, that was harder than the first. And then I taught way out in the country at Andrews School for Girls in Willoughby, which you would be familiar with. So just the idea of riding out there and teaching and getting this degree was enough for me. And I didn’t. I don’t know why, but I don’t remember any publicity about it unless I. Unless I blocked it out. But I don’t think so. But I was on that initial survey, and it was just so funny because we were all laughing in class. I just remember everybody sitting there and saying, hey, why do you guys want us to do the survey? We don’t know anything about sociology or history or anything. We’re ed majors. They said, no, we want you to do it. I don’t think they could really get anybody, to be honest with you. I think it was very hard to get people to go through these streets and ask these questions. I recall. I don’t think my parents were too happy about me doing this, but I did it, and it was fine. It was just fine. And I’m so excited that there’s still a movement in a situation that’s going on, and perhaps it will go on into the national historic thing as they’re trying to do. That would really be amazing.
Kelsey Smith [00:10:59] Are they trying to get that district on the National Register?
Ruth Kyman [00:11:02] Yes, sure. When I went to the meeting. Oh, you didn’t go to that meeting?
Kelsey Smith [00:11:06] No, I was not.
Ruth Kyman [00:11:07] Okay. Last week, two weeks ago now, I went to the meeting. The Ludlow Association still meets, and they’re very, apparently very strong friends. Kept- Kept together and now Jay Stokes. Not Jay. Well, Jay’s daughter. Jay and Lou Stokes daughter is doing her degree at Goucher College. I’ll give you the papers on it. I thought you had them. I’ll show you in the kitchen. On the Ludlow Association. And trying to get that whole neighborhood into the National Historic Register. So she gave a speech on the neighborhood. It was so exciting to see her. And I had never met her, but I sure did know her parents, Lou Stokes and Jay, who were old friends of mine. And we had taken them, which you believe to Israel many years ago. And there was a political reason. The city, not the city, but they wanted to expose Black people to the situation in Israel for the need for money. So that they would understand about the war. There was a Six Day War was going on and all this stuff. So Lou and Jay, my first husband and I went to Israel with them and they were wonderful people. And when I saw Jay at this meeting, she just ran up, threw her arms around. We recognized each other, you know, after all those years, my Lord. And it was a very exciting thing. I had no idea that it was her daughter that was doing the Ludlow Project now. So it seems like it’s always part of my life, keeps interweaving in and out of my life in various ways. And we invited her to come over and I hope she does. And I certainly can invite her if we need more background information because I’m an old good friend. So that’s kind of the background of the whole thing. It was a very beautiful time in my life. And I have always been very active in civil rights. After this, after the Ludlow Project, I’m not sure if it was before or after. I shouldn’t say that, but Martin Luther King, the whole thing. We had a day in Cleveland. Did you know that they closed all the schools in trying to get busing, good busing, and they wanted to protest and they thought that if they closed the schools and could get teachers from the suburbs to come down and teach for one day, that would prove to everybody that the suburban people were behind them. It was kind of a strange concept and I wasn’t sure what they meant, but I was a teacher and I said, sure, I’ll come down and do whatever you want. And they said, we need a principal. This is in the heart of the city. Really, really scary neighborhood. And my husband just dropped me off there and said goodbye at a church. And I said, wait a minute, there’s no school here. I can’t teach in a church. There’s no classrooms. And I had all these children, little kids. Hi. Hi. So these lovely men were on the porch, and they kept saying, did they send you down here, little lady, to teach our kids? What in the world did they send such a young person down here? I said, don’t worry, I can handle the children. But where are we going to sit? Where is the school? And they said, you’ll have to just take them in this one big room here. You know how to play the piano? I said, sure. They said, okay. Can you play We Shall Overcome? I said, yes, I can play anything you want. They said, that’s all you need. Start playing. Really, between the Ludlow Association and this kind of thing in the civil rights days, you know, it was very, very exciting. And I wanted to go march down in Selma, but I had to teach. That wasn’t a good idea to leave school and do that. But I’ve always been active in civil rights myself, and I just always have believed that there should be no differentiation between people of color and anything else. But I will tell you, that day was the longest day of my life, Kelsey. Without room to do anything with these poor little kids. And these men, these beautiful men, these tall, gorgeous men, got on the porch of this church and they joined hands like this, and they said, nobody’s going to bother you. Don’t you worry. You know, because we were worried about riots in the church. And they said, just stay in there and play the piano.
Kelsey Smith [00:15:44] Did you do anything else in Cleveland as far as civil rights go?
Ruth Kyman [00:15:47] Besides the church day? Yes, but I was a very big supporter of Carl and Lou Stokes, and that wasn’t so much civil rights, but we just wanted to get, in those days, Carl in as mayor. We were big backers. And in civil rights, I couldn’t do too much because I was teaching. And, you know, it’s hard to- You can’t leave school because they’re not going to be very happy if you’re going to go. I said, I wanted to march. I wanted to go down south and march, but my husband said, no, that’s enough now. But I usually get involved. If I was in the city with, with Dickie, and we were in San Francisco one year, and there was a big parade, and I didn’t even know what they were marching for. But I believe in causes, as you can tell. So I said, Dickie, I’m just going to join the parade for a few blocks. And he said, what are you doing? And I said, I don’t know what they’re marching for, but it’s probably something that’s deserving. And I’ll just march for a few blocks. Well, it was kind of scary because in the next few blocks, they set the city hall on fire. And I know. I think it was a gay rights thing in those days. And we were going to dinner, and then they locked the door. Dick was on the inside of the restaurant. And they locked the door because they were afraid the marchers were coming in. And here I was, one of the marchers going to dinner. I said, hi, could y’all let me in there, please? It was really. That was a little too much. But, yes, I’m a person that believes in causes, and I’m a person that believes in equal rights for everyone. And it was just very. That was why I loved teaching. The little kids were so darling. And, you know, there’s no problems in those days in any way. We had so many children of different. Where I taught, different countries, actually. And. But as far as civil rights, that was probably the end for me.
Kelsey Smith [00:17:50] So how did you end up back in Shaker? Well, not back in- How did you end up living here?
Ruth Kyman [00:17:55] Well, let’s see, where did I live? You know, I had a very nice first husband, but we lived in Beachwood. And then it was my first husband and I that bought this house because there were just the two of us. And this house is not a, not a real big house. You’ll see, it’s fine for two or three people, but not, or four, but not a huge family home. And then years later, when I divorced and married, Dickie had two little children. And they loved this house and they loved me, and it was such a beautiful for all of us situation. And they said, Mom, I want this house. I want this house. They didn’t want to stay in their old house. Well, that has nothing to do with this. But that’s why we’re in this house still. And now, of course, my children are grown and have children of their own, but this was the home that we raised the children in.
Kelsey Smith [00:18:48] What, do you want to tell me a little bit about the history of the home?
Ruth Kyman [00:18:50] This home is a great home. This home was the first home built of its style, Frank Lloyd Wright style, in Shaker Heights. And it was built by an architect whom everyone knows named Jack Bialosky. And it turns out that Jack is my husband’s cousin, my second husband’s cousin. And I just. I walked into this house, Kelsey, and I loved it. I loved this house. And I told my husband, if you think we can afford this house, I think this is the house for us. I’ll show you around and you’ll see why. It’s just beautiful windows and everything. I believe in the inside coming right into the rooms, really. And no steps, particularly just a few going up to my studio. And I never was a big fan of those big steps, you know, all the beautiful staircases. Thank goodness, because I, in later life have developed such terrible arthritis. I’d never make it up the stairs, never be able to. And there’s huge- I can’t tell you the feeling here. This house embraces you. And it’s just like when you walk in the door and you come home, you are home. And so that. That’s why I’m very fortunate to have lived here. So I’ll be okay if I have to move, but it will be hard.
Kelsey Smith [00:20:17] Do you know what year it was built?
Ruth Kyman [00:20:18] This house was built in– Oh, dear. I knew you were going to ask me that, honey.
Kelsey Smith [00:20:22] Even just a general–
Ruth Kyman [00:20:24] ’65, [crosstalk] 60, something like that. Yeah, yeah. And you’ll see there’s a lot of things that, like, doesn’t have any closets. It has dressing rooms. I’ll show you. It has a whole section just of rooms for your clothes. I’ve never seen anything– I’ve never seen anything like that. You know, it’s like Hollywood. And this lady that built this house had unlimited funds. And she gave Jack carte blanche and said, just do whatever you want. And it was his first house, and he did whatever he wanted. And we’ve made lots of changes. We added wooden floors in other sections. And the kitchen is all done over. I’ll show you. It’s just a beautiful kitchen, but the bedroom is really the room. I think you’ll be most impressed. You could live in the bedroom. And it’s like living in a rose garden out there, you know, it’s just so spiritual to me. And I’m an artist, so this is an artist’s home. It really is.
Kelsey Smith [00:21:28] Now, you said you got your- You went to art school?
Ruth Kyman [00:21:33] Yeah, I went to the Cleveland Institute of Art and I had to take another master. I had to start all over again. And so that’s a combined degree. You get part of your degree there and part across the street again at Western Reserve, so you can teach. So my degree is in teaching art ed. And that I can tell you the year upstairs. I have it on a certificate on the wall up there. And I have always, always been interested in art. Always been playing with something, you know. And we have a greenhouse here. It has a potter’s wheel out there. And I used to throw pots in the greenhouse. It was wonderful when I was younger. And I love clay and I love paper. Are you familiar with paper art, where you’d start with handmade paper, you make your own paper and then you cast it or do something with it. I’ll show you some of the pieces that I made. And now I work. This is mine. This is a- Just invented by Mitsubishi Motors, this product, it was- It’s silver or brass or bronze or platinum. But it starts out mushy, like clay. That’s how come you can get it into all these neat shapes. But I don’t have a kiln here. You have to have- I have three kilns, but I don’t have a digital kiln. I have the old kind. And this won’t fire in the old kind. So I do this in Florida, where we live in the winter and they have a person down there. It’s very rare to work in this. No one in Cleveland is working in this medium. And it’s an interesting field that’s just developing.
Kelsey Smith [00:23:16] Wow.
Ruth Kyman [00:23:16] Yeah.
Kelsey Smith [00:23:17] How did you come to learn about it?
Ruth Kyman [00:23:20] I think on the computer. No, I was at an art show and a lady said to me, I was talking about not liking to pound anywhere. I had gone through art school and done all that heavy work. She said, you don’t have to do that anymore. You can just work in this soft medium. Look up precious metal clay on your computer. And I’m very computer savvy. I love computers. And so I went right home and brought it down. Well, wait, if you put that on your computer, you’ll be sitting there all day. Movies and videos and gosh knows what’s not. But in those days, it was new. That’s about 10 years ago that I started. So that was the thing. Our children are very like you, I’m sure, very computer savvy. David works in computers and lives in San Diego. That’s his field. And my daughter is a graphic designer, and she lives up in Colorado Springs. She’s married to a Green Beret. And that’s very unusual as well. And they live a very different life. But Holly, I think she- The art part of it, she’s definitely from my. You can imagine this house. It was always full of some mess. I’ll show you upstairs and you’ll say, ruth, I don’t believe this studio. It’s just totally wild. It’s like, part of me, I think is a wild person that sort of has to be contained in life. But you can ask my children someday. The story of Ferris Bueller’s Day Off and the night that we went to see it. And that’ll explain my character, I think, best of anything. But I have two sides, very restrained teaching, and then the art side, which is a little different.
Kelsey Smith [00:25:15] That’s funny. I’m just going to kind of end with, what is it about Shaker? Why did you want to live here when you and your husband were buying?
Ruth Kyman [00:25:26] Oh, honey, I didn’t really care where we lived because I’m a Cleveland Heights person, and I think those homes are beautiful, but they all have steps. It had to be somewhere without steps. And this house, I think it’s the only one on the street. I’ll drive you down the street and show you. But I don’t think there’s another house like it without steps, except for that little bit. But you don’t need to go upstairs if you don’t want to see. Everything is on this floor. And that was a criteria. It’s fortuitous because I never knew that I would have terrible arthritis. And when my mother saw this house, she said, why did you buy that house? She said, where’s the staircase? And I said, Mom, there isn’t. And she said, well, I never heard of a house without a staircase. She was really upset.
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