Abstract
Annabelle Weiss is a long-time resident of Shaker Heights, having been drawn to the area primarily because of the reputation of the school district. In this interview Weiss speaks extensively about school and residential integration in Sussex and Ludlow, describing who the people were that led the push to integrate, reactions of the communities both inside and outside the neighborhood, and organizations established to ease the tensions that existed at the time.
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Interviewee
Weiss, Annabelle (Interviewee)
Interviewer
Braunlich, David (Interviewer)
Project
Shaker Heights Centennial
Date
6-12-2012
Document Type
Oral History
Duration
21 minutes
Recommended Citation
"Annabelle Weiss Interview, 12 June 2012" (2012). Cleveland Regional Oral History Collection. Interview 915034.
https://engagedscholarship.csuohio.edu/crohc000/523
Transcript
Annabelle Weiss [00:00:11] And I’m here to talk about my experiences of living in Shaker Heights, which I have done. On July 1, I will have lived in my home for 51 years. So a good portion of my life has been lived here in Shaker.
David Braunlich [00:00:32] Okay, and what are some of the most prominent memories you have of Shaker? Can you tell me about your time here in Shaker?
Annabelle Weiss [00:00:41] Well, I’ve raised my family here. I have three kids. They went through the Shaker school system. And that was a good part of the reason why I wanted to live in Shaker Heights.
David Braunlich [00:00:57] Because of the school system.
Annabelle Weiss [00:00:58] Because of the school system. And it lived up to its promise. In fact, my youngest child, who was the only one of the three living in Cleveland, decided to herself that she wanted her children to have the same opportunity she did, and she wanted to live in Shaker. And so she and her husband looked for a house in Shaker.
David Braunlich [00:01:31] Does she still live here?
Annabelle Weiss [00:01:33] She still does. And a lot of her reason was growing up in an integrated community and having friends of both races. I think all three of my kids look back on that as a very enriching experience.
David Braunlich [00:01:58] Okay, well, what can you tell me about. In what ways would you feel that that really helps your children with their education? As far as you said you were looking towards integration in schools?
Annabelle Weiss [00:02:10] Well, another reason that my husband and I were excited about looking for house in Shaker was that the Ludlow community was becoming integrated. And there was a movement in the Ludlow community. Excuse me, to prevent white flight, to prevent the panic that sets in, or that used to set in when a lack family moved on a street near you. Well, at first we wanted to buy a house in Ludlow, and we put in an offer on a house in Ludlow, and it was accepted. We had to come back the next day with money, with our checkbooks. And when we did, the lady of the house said, after you went home, a Black family came and offered me more than you did, and I accepted their offer. So we did not get the house in Ludlow. We would have been among the first white families in that movement. But we thought, if Ludlow gets integrated, other parts of Shaker will doubtless become integrated. So we didn’t get turned off by that. And we eventually bought a brand new house that was just going up on Scottsdale Boulevard in the Sussex school district, and that’s where our kids went to school. About a year after we moved in, the first Black family bought a house in the Sussex area. And there was a powerful reaction among neighbors who started a movement to keep Blacks out of the Sussex district. Well, when people like us found out about that, we formed another organization to welcome Blacks and to prevent panic selling. And our two groups met each week for several weeks discussing our points of view. We had a wonderful man who assumed the leadership of our group. His name was Al Ringler. And nothing ever got him to lose his temper or to speak up, you know, in an angry or controlled voice. He was always warm, friendly, and accepting and brilliant. And one night, the leader of the anti group said, okay, we’re going to stop our activity. We’ll join you. And so the Sussex Association was born before my very eyes. My husband and I were just so happy. About a year later, a Black family bought a house directly across the street from us. And their oldest child was the same age as my youngest child. So there were these two little girls, and they became playmates and best friends all through grade school until junior high, when her friend started to want to be socially accepted by other Black kids, you know, and they drifted apart. They still loved each other, but they weren’t daily friends anymore. And Sean’s father was a dentist, and he was on the faculty of Case Western Reserve dental school, and he eventually became the head of the dental school department. So this was a classy family. You know, you just could not look down on them, even if you wanted to. And we were warm, friendly neighbors. But the two little girls were really wonderful together. They were in the same kindergarten class. A few years went by, and I’m sorry, my memory has become afflicted by old age, so I don’t remember how many years later or what exactly the story was, But I think it was something like a white man or a white person picked a fight with or killed a Black person. I don’t know. But there was a very strong reaction in the Black community of Cleveland. And they- Some of the men began going into the white neighborhoods and integrated neighborhoods and throwing rocks at windows and looking for Blacks and whites who were together and starting trouble with them. And during that period, my daughter was across the street playing with Sean. My daughter’s name is Susie. And Sean’s mother called them indoors and said, don’t you play out there where they can see you. I’m afraid you’ll get into trouble. And so the two little girls went into their backyard, and they had never thought about being of different races. And when my daughter got home, she told me that they put their arms together and looked at their skin, examining it, because they had never thought about it.
David Braunlich [00:08:48] How old were they at that time?
Annabelle Weiss [00:08:50] I’m guessing they were seven or eight. Eight or nine. You know, I don’t remember the years, so I can’t tell you. Maybe they were just seven. I just don’t know. Wait a minute. How old was Susie when we moved in there? She was three. They could have been as young as five or six. I don’t know. Okay. So my kids grew up in Shaker. They all had Black friends as well as white friends. None like Susie and Sean. They have Black kids in their rooms. We always thought Shaker was a great community. They collect the trash exactly what they tell you they will. You can call for help, and they’re responsive. So we’ve been happy in Shaker, despite the fact that the taxes are very high, which is a discouraging fact for people who look to buy a home in Shaker. Okay. Our association faded away. They didn’t need us anymore. But this fact is very interesting to me. The great school my kids went to was Sussex. It’s on Lomond, near Warrensville. There’s another grade school on Lomond much nearer to Lee Road, and that’s Lomond School. So there are two school districts in a, I don’t know, square couple of mile area. My kids went to Sussex. The other, the kids starting a block or two from where we lived went to Lomond. And it seemed to me, this is not scientific, that over the years, the Sussex school district has not given in to panic selling at all and is still mostly white. The Lomond school district is more heavily Black. I don’t know what the proportion is and why this is so. I have one guess. When my daughter Susie finished sixth grade and went into junior high, they closed Sussex School because there was a loss of population there. I guess it was an older population. You know, young families weren’t moving in so much. They closed Sussex, and the Sussex kids went to Lomond. They had a bus service so they wouldn’t have to walk too far. And what they did with Sussex School, it’s my opinion, it’s not scientific. Made all the difference in the neighborhood. They transformed it into a school with three daycare centers. Now, I don’t know if there are daycare centers or preschools. I don’t know. Three daycare centers plus an expanded playground, plus a community center. That’s what they did with Sussex School. And it’s my opinion that this was very attractive to young families who were working where the mothers were working and needed to take care for their kids. It was so handy. And young white families began moving into The Sussex neighborhood. When I go outside, I still see more white faces in the area than Black. When the school bus stops on my corner to pick up kids, mixture of white and Black. More white than Black. When I drive around or ride my bike around the Lomond area, I see more Black faces. I can’t tell you what the scientific count is. I just can’t. You’d have to ride up and down the street yourself, get your own feeling. What else can I tell you? So I’m of an age where my kids are beginning to tell me, mom, sell the house, move into an apartment. I’m not interested. I don’t have any trouble with my stairs. I still ride my bike every place, so I’m not interested. I still love living in Shaker, and so does. Oh, I have to tell you a couple things. These involve my daughter. So her kids are. 3 out of her 4 kids are in college or out of college. One’s graduated already, so they went through the Shaker schools. And when her kids started hitting junior high, she began to go to parent meetings, parent teacher meetings at the junior high, which was. Oh, what did they call it? It’s now the middle school, but it was. Oh, my mind. I can’t think of ordinary words. She’d start going to these meetings, and who would she meet? Other parents who were kids that she had grown up with, who moved into Shaker on purpose for the same reason that she did. They wanted their kids to have the same opportunities as they did of living in a wonderful school system in an integrated area. And she didn’t know that until she met the kids she’d grown up with.
David Braunlich [00:15:44] You talked a little bit about the effects of integration. You seem to think it’s a very positive. I get that feel from you that you feel that it’s a very positive thing. Can you tell me a little bit about just why you feel that way?
Annabelle Weiss [00:15:54] Well, I got to know my neighbors. We were always friendly with each other, which proved my point of view. I had always thought it was terrible the way Blacks were treated in our country. I just thought it was terrible. My husband did, too. And the experience we’ve had of living in this area and of meeting and seeing Black people grow into professional positions, you know, our observations and take leadership roles in the community has just proved that point of view for us.
David Braunlich [00:16:42] From an additional standpoint, you talked about with Sussex closing and almost, you know, everyone having to go to the Lomond district. Tell me a little bit about that, about how that might have made others feel around how you saw other people around.
Annabelle Weiss [00:17:00] I don’t know. I never discussed it. My kids were out of school, so it was nothing that concerned me. I can’t answer it. And I also. I have not. There’s another. There’s a Sussex association again now. They’ve had it for years. It’s just to promote goodwill among the neighbors. Oh, they have a couple of picnics over the summer. They have block parties. They have events at Sussex School. You know, they do things to promote goodwill and harmony. I’ve never gone to one thing. I wish them well. I pay my dues each year. You know, I’m just past that point in my life. I’m an old lady. I’m a grandmother. You know, I volunteer in things I want to do, but that’s nothing that draws me. I’m always a little ashamed of myself. But I can’t give you a good answer to it. Now. There was a period of time when the principal at Lomond School was famous. Of course, I can’t remember his name. He got the reputation of being a fabulous principal, and Lomond was famous. I can’t remember if he died or left the school. I think he died, but that didn’t happen. He wasn’t there when they closed Sussex. He came in a couple of years later. Oh, I want to tell you one more thing. When my older granddaughter, my daughter’s second child, was in high school at Shaker, there was, I believe there still is a group called SGORR, S-G-O-R-R. And that stands for Student Group on Race Relations. And that was started by a teacher whose name, of course, I can’t remember. And they got to. She got together a group of Black and white high school kids who wanted to work on race relations. They did lots of studying, and then they would go into the grade school and talk to the younger kids. They’d have a day where they did that. They would do all kinds of projects to encourage friendship between Blacks and whites. She got very active in that. She was also the only white cheerleader. A bunch of Black girls and her. So I can’t say that kids still don’t gravitate towards white kids. Don’t gravitate towards white kids in Black to Black. You know, that’s part of the picture, too, but doesn’t hold her back in any way.
David Braunlich [00:20:19] Okay, well, you had mentioned about your daughter, you know, moving back in, having met other people that are also moving back in. What would you say that you think that the reason that people gravitate back to Shaker Heights?
Annabelle Weiss [00:20:32] Because the schools did such a fabulous job both scholastically and in encouraging all the kids.
David Braunlich [00:20:45] Did your daughter already have children at that point when she moved in? Did she move in with schools in mind?
Annabelle Weiss [00:20:50] Yes, they lived in. They had a house in University Heights, and then they could afford a bigger, better house. You know, they were looking for one. And that’s when she absolutely insisted to her husband, had to be Shaker.
David Braunlich [00:21:20] Okay. You had talked a little bit about a couple of separate groups back when you had moved in, back when you were living in your house, and that there were people who were very worried about panic selling.
Annabelle Weiss [00:21:31] Yeah.
David Braunlich [00:21:33] Can you tell me a little bit more about both the groups, both sides, and what their main concern of it was? Was it just the panic selling or do you think there was anything else involved in this entire situation?
Annabelle Weiss [00:21:45] I don’t know enough to talk intelligently about it. Okay. One thing that was a real help in stabilizing was the success of the Ludlow district that they had really succeeded in averting panic selling and encouraging white buyers as well as Black buyers to buy in the neighborhood. And so we had them as an example, a successful example. I think that was a very important factor.
David Braunlich [00:22:32] You had mentioned taxes being very high.
Annabelle Weiss [00:22:35] Yes.
David Braunlich [00:22:36] Did you feel that that was, that’s currently a barrier? Was that, for when your daughter moved in, a barrier to her to move back into Shaker?
Annabelle Weiss [00:22:44] There was no barrier to her moving back into Shaker. She was determined to live in Shaker. I don’t know what to say. You know, it’s often that I hear comments like that, oh, the Shaker, the taxes are so high. My wonderful daughter, among the many things that she does positively, has joined the Shaker Democratic Club. And so she drags me along with her to the Shaker Democratic Club meetings. So I’ve gotten to meet people who are active politicians and neighbors who are active in the Democratic Club, you know, and I’m impressed and delighted.
David Braunlich [00:23:48] Would you say that you’re saying that you’re slightly involved in politics? Where does the politics fall as far as your views? Where do politics fall, especially in immigration? Where have they fallen before and where do they fall now?
Annabelle Weiss [00:24:01] Well, I’m a lifelong Democrat, a liberal. Nothing has ever changed that. So whatever I do, I write letters to my congressmen. I’m a member of the National Council of Jewish Women, and we have a group there that we meet every so often and we pick specific issues and a whole bunch of us will write our congressmen and call them. So that’s one of the things I do.
David Braunlich [00:24:42] You seemed to have been fairly involved but throughout this time, it seems that you were even back. You seemed to have been pretty forward and upstanding about your views on the integration. You seem to even right now just. I get to feel, talking to you, that you seem to have very strong views. What would you say about the views that you don’t agree with? That the people you would talk that you were very pro integration. There were people who were against integration. What would you say about the opposite side?
Annabelle Weiss [00:25:16] What can I say about them? I’m appalled when I hear people speak hatefully about other races or other groups. It just appalls me. I’m not terrific like Al Ringler was at accepting their points of view and speaking in a friendly way. I just have to shut up and go away and write letters and do things like that. I can’t take an aggressive personal point.
David Braunlich [00:25:52] Don’t mean to force you into that way.
Annabelle Weiss [00:25:54] No, no, no. It’s a perfectly good question. Also, it’s never been my main thing. I have other activities I’m very deeply involved in.
David Braunlich [00:26:06] Tell me about some of those as well. Are those within Shaker? I hope to keep the topic.
Annabelle Weiss [00:26:12] No.
David Braunlich [00:26:19] Nevermind. What do you feel about the changes since you moved in to now? What would you like to see still change? What has changed for the better? What do you feel about Shaker? What’s changed for the worse, perhaps?
Annabelle Weiss [00:26:32] I’m so happy and pleased with the stability in my neighborhood and the fact that everyone maintains their homes. You know, I don’t see deteriorating houses and lawns. I’m a happy customer and I don’t have enough. I have very little to do with the neighborhood now, so I can’t speak intelligently on it. My friends don’t necessarily live in Shaker or the ones who do. You know, we’re not discussing Shaker with each other. We’re off on our own activities. I really can’t give you an intelligent answer.
David Braunlich [00:27:14] Okay, what can you tell me? Can you tell me a little bit - sounds very interesting - about the Student Group on Race Relations, SGORR? Can you tell me anything else you know about that?
Annabelle Weiss [00:27:27] No, I really. You can call my daughter if you want. My daughter is the best thing I could do. She’s downtown today. Turn it off. [recording ends abruptly]
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