Abstract
Juanita Ortiz shares stories of living on the west side of Cleveland after moving to the Detroit Shoreway neighborhood from Puerto Rico in 1960.
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Interviewee
Ortiz, Juanita (interviewee); Ortiz, Miriam (participant)
Interviewer
Calder, James (interviewer); Miller, Emily (interviewer)
Project
Detroit Shoreway
Date
8-9-2008
Document Type
Oral History
Duration
33 minutes
Recommended Citation
"Juanita Ortiz interview, 09 August 2008" (2008). Cleveland Regional Oral History Collection. Interview 955027_999071.
https://engagedscholarship.csuohio.edu/crohc000/864
Transcript
Emily Miller [00:00:00] Are we ready?
Juanita Ortiz [00:00:00] Yeah, go ahead. Okay.
James Calder [00:00:06] I guess we can start. Would you like to introduce yourself?
Juanita Ortiz [00:00:12] My name is Juanita Ortiz. My address is [...] West 61st Street.
Miriam Ortiz [00:00:12] [corrects street address]
James Calder [00:00:24] And when did you first come to this neighborhood?
Juanita Ortiz [00:00:26] I used to live in Denison Street. And when I moved over here to this area and this new address, all my children was small, almost in first, second, and third [grade]. And at first I looked around, the difference between Denison and this area, I could tell, you know, and I was so... And I said, Oh my God, where am I going to live in this area? I see so many things - the street, the building, and people. I don't say I don't like the people, because everybody got different, you know, different culture and that. But in the neighborhood I have a lot of experience because I was the first Puerto Rican lady that moved in that house. And I had to live in [...] West 61st Street. And because my language was Spanish. My husband used to work - I had nine children - and my husband used to work at Jones and Laughlin to support us. They were little and I was anxious to work out to help them because they keep, every day they keep asking me, Ma, I need this and... And according to my, you know, my financial right there. So I remember Miriam - she was always. The first one that I had here was Miriam, my daughter. She would tell me, Ma, don't let your Spanish speaking bother you. You could learn. Go out and see, and what you see, if you have to tell, no matter if you have to go to the judge, go and speak for your right. She always used to tell me. And I said, Miriam, but you know, I had a little [inaudible]. I said, I told her, It's easy for you to tell me that. So my older little girl, she was born in Puerto Rico, has a difference. She said, "Oh, she said that to you because she's from American. American born." [00:02:34] And I said, Well, and I gave her, well, no matter where you are born, you have to look for your values, the people around you, and you have to take in consideration your surroundings. I said in Spanish - I said, I told them in Spanish, I said, I wish to - because they don't know - I wish to tell you this in English. I said, you know, at the moment I don't know what words came to my mouth, that I said, "Well, you are so quick judging people. Shut your mouth." That I remember, that was my first words. I don't know. I know I make a lot of mistakes in the spelling and grammar, you know. But I said, it come to my mouth. And from that my interest in learning more every day, coming out and exploring more things around where I live, so I could get acquainted with the neighborhood. So one time I needed a preparation prescription. And I remember I said, How? If I go this way, I will get lost. So I come to my front door and I said, let me look there. This is 61st. The little drugstore is on Detroit. Could be that way. So instead I come down to 65th. I walked through Bridge Avenue from my house and went down and down. I said, oh, I'm lost. But I keep looking like that. And finally I found the little drugstore. That was my first experience. So that made me more - how do you say that in English? So I got more acquainted and enthusiastic. At that time I was young, I was only 40, 46 years old, you know. Now I'm 88 you know. [00:04:40] That I could see a lot more clearly. So then little by little, you know, I learned and I said, well, this is not right. Then I would look at [inaudible]. And that if I can speak Spanish, I talk to the mayor. And that one [inaudible] and all of them said, Ma, try, try, you're going to learn English. So I start looking for books and learning a little by little, somewhere, until I get the opportunity, my girl - and when she was six years - from my [inaudible], I said, I gotta go find a job to help them, to build them more [inaudible]. And so I went to the Board of Education and finally I fill an application there. And I get a job from this place. [00:05:35] So this I owe what I learned - the little bit I’ve learned to date - to these people, this neighborhood, Detroit Shoreway. Because the cornerstone what I see in the past and all this new and different that I see now. It's a lot of, a lot of space in the building. I remember being in this building, inside was so run down. But now I still see a beautiful plan. [00:06:01] But this is the effort of the people that are working. They said, you know, the people but we have to build the community. This is what I think. Excuse my English. Because the people we have to be inside the community that talks so much. When we see something we complain, but we don't put in our values. We say Oh, let's just call so and so. Instead let's try and we should unite and help together, for the people, the staff that are there.[00:06:33] I know they work hard according to what I see in my eye and my knowledge. Because I don't know too much English. The people that we blame, the people that are in office, we say Oh, it's [inaudible]. But they doing this - is what I see - they doing this not only to improve Detroit Shoreway, but to improve the same area over here. [00:07:00] Before I could not come to the lake from the tunnel, and now it's beautiful. The staff, the Detroit Shoreway united, you know. Like I said, we have to unite and do that. This is what I see in the past, you know. Now the difference, different things, different people. We got a Spanish church. We got so many things. I don't understand. If I was young and I could do my part. I remember when I moved I saw so many cans. When I see a can, I bend down, pick it up and put it in the garbage. So that we could cooperate. But now the generation don't want to do nothing. You don't get no faith, you know. But I see a lot of improvement. And I hop] the staff, the people that are working... You know, when they put a project in front, somebody could help them to talk. But without no sense. The people say, Oh, so and so. [00:08:07] But nobody put a hand beside that. When we see something, we need time and effort too. But I see a lot of changes. Like I told you, so I went to the Board of Education and I filled an application... I came home and I told my girls, Ma, how come are you going to go to work? You don't know English. But I make it work 25 years at Gallagher Junior School. Now it's Gallagher. But before it was West Tech Junior High. And when I [during] the year that I went there, I met Ray Pianka. He worked there as a student there. And I remember one time I was in the hall. He and my son were good friends. And I saw him working. [00:09:03] He come to me, "Miss Ortiz." [inaudible]. He asked, "can you give me a pencil? I am late for class." And I was working in the office. In those days we got supplies free. But now everybody has to buy. And I remember him. And now I'm so proud to see him doing his job. [00:09:26] Because I remember he told me one time, he said, "Miss Ortiz, don't worry, I'm going to be an attorney. If you got a case, I defend you." Maybe he don't remember those words, but those words I remember until now. And I see him that he wished what he got in his career. Now he was an attorney. [00:09:44] We see him making councilman, and [inaudible]. And I hope that the Lord will give me more life. I made it safe. I don't know now what could be, but I still [inaudible] I could see those people doing more than the effort that they have. [00:10:05] You know, we see the pride that we have. You know that. And now we have to have hope for the future. But they need cooperation with it from the outside. You know, too. But this neighborhood, a lot of people. The people work. We had going back to the [inaudible]. Every time I see Ray Pianka, he go past by my street. Look. One time I saw him and my son told me, Ma, who is that guy looking around the [inaudible]? I said, Look. I said, that's Ray Pianca. I know him. Matt Zone, his mother and me used to work. My grandfather was Italian, my father's father. And I used to meet Matt Zone. [00:10:54] Now he's a councilman. And he used to go play on the path to my house. And I knew him, now he's doing work. I know he worked hard and I know he continued. And I see him proving. We see him work. And I'm proud to live in Ward 17 until now. And God bless all the people. Bless you and bless all the community. Excuse my English. I’m bad.
Miriam Ortiz [00:11:23] They have a question for you.
Juanita Ortiz [00:11:24] Go ahead.
James Calder [00:11:25] What was it like, you know, first moving in here? Did you say you were the first Puerto Rican to move into this [neighborhood]?
Juanita Ortiz [00:11:37] I moved there July 24, 1960, 61 first. And all my old neighbors moving to different places, leaving. Some are old. The only one that is still living in that place is me. And they [inaudible]. Because I can see, you know, people. I pick up everything no matter what is in my yard. [00:12:03] And I like to see the holes on my block, you know. But I walk and I see it improving. [inaudible]. You can go there before there was a lot of things there. Now it is very improved a little bit. So I see a lot of things when I moved there. And the past was very worse. But now to me it's [inaudible]. [00:12:22] We call somebody and have a way we get the answer. And they said before there were so many. I see the changes at one time of, you know, the neighborhood. Now we get along. But when you live in a neighborhood so many years and you see different people surrounding, coming to you. You know, I just look and I get along with everybody. [00:12:46] But if I have to, I got a mouth, it's every time, If I see that they come out throwing things and breaking things that is causing problems for the government and people and all the taxes you pay for something that you see the area clean. And somebody comes I open my mouth and say, Don't do that. Every time I come out now and they say, “Okay, okay, we don't do it.”[00:13:14] And it's respect from them, you know. And I don't have to say nothing. No hard work, you know, to try to put in with everybody. I said, I'm nobody. I am just an old lady living here 40, 48 years in the neighborhood. [inaudible] I remember, seeing the old Waverly school. They knocked it down, it's not there now. [00:13:43] And I got the opportunity to meet a lot of councilmen. Michael's son, the oldest, you know, until he died. I missed his son, his wife too. And then look Ray Pianka was our councilman. So I'm pleased to live here and now I'm very pleased. [inaudible]. [00:14:07] Those people all hear the trouble with stuff and doing their best, doing hard work. And every day I live, I give them the blessing and I give credit for everyone.
Emily Miller [00:14:22] Some other people we talked to said that there's a really strong, like, Eastern European ethnicities like Albanian and Romanian and even Italian actually. Did you have any involvement with those neighbors?
Miriam Ortiz [00:14:42] [translates question in Spanish]
Juanita Ortiz [00:14:52] I have Italian neighbors everywhere, every place I go. I lived in Denison, and my best friend's Italian. My two friends are Italian. And I learned a few words from them, you know. And over here, my first neighbor that lived in front of me, she was Italian, and she used to work and I used to take care of her kids. [00:15:15] Now they are married and they still visiting me. They remember, when they come to my house and I see them and give them rice and beans, and they loved it, and they come here and are married now. They're Italian. Met a lot of Italian people. I was the first Hispanic lady living in that area. And the neighbor looked at me and said, What is this? [00:15:36] One neighbor said, What a short lady with a lot of kids! And I said, you know...
James Calder [00:15:44] I wanted to ask were you involved or - this was something they told me to ask you about. Is it called the Aztec? The club, the Mexican club. Was there a club? It was one of the first clubs for Hispanic people maybe.
Juanita Ortiz [00:16:01] Maybe the first club that I knew for Puerto Rican people was Juana Díaz Club [?]. And after that they make another one they called Yaucana Club. The [Alma] Yaucana Club, it still does. Now they got San Lorenzo [?], Yuacana, and that. And the Veteran Club. My husband was a member there too. It was on 25th [?] there.
James Calder [00:16:28] When was the time when on the west side – there's a lot of Puerto Rican neighborhoods here – when did those people move in?
Juanita Ortiz [00:16:36] Well, you know, I can’t answer you that, because when I first came from Puerto Rico to live here in America, my husband was in the Army and was living here. I had two children there, and I had my house there, and my father has a little farm and we worked on the farm and that. But my husband, he was here in the Army and he found a job here and he decided to stay here. [00:17:04] So when he wrote me a letter to tell everything that he wanted for me, first I said, I'm not going to go. But then my mother encouraged me. She said, “You go and follow your husband. You got two children. And that.” So when he sent for me, I used to live on Clark [Avenue] – the house is still there – at 16 or 17 by the steel mill. [00:17:29] I lived there in a little apartment. Because in those days it was very difficult for people to live with children. Especially Spanish-speaking people. I remember the lady that owned the apartment. She liked my husband because he speak a lot of English and he was stationed here. And he got a job here. But she don't like me because she don't understand me. [00:17:53] But she insulted me in English. But I knew what she told me. But I said, Well, I don't know how to respond. I better keep my mouth shut. And I listened to her, but I don't like the area because it was filthy. And then from there we moved to Denison. Our first house was in Denison. [00:18:11] Miriam was one year old when we moved then to Denison. And from that, he started saving. At that time I have four. Then I started having one [more child]. I came with two and I have [more]. And my mother told me, You go to [the] United States, we took it, and if you come [back] to Puerto Rico, come with seven. [00:18:31] Exactly. I said, Ma, don't tell me that, I have enough. But then I know from there, and I had seven [more children]. My last one is my baby, 48 years old she was. That's when I had her, when I moved to the neighborhood, she was one year. Now she's where she graduated, she’s raised, she's a medical assistant. But I knew a lot of people from here. The Spanish, we had a hard time in the economy. [00:18:59] But people, you know... we are so slow to get to one goal. And people who are Spanish speaking. We have to listen more and talk less, because you know when you learn, you have to learn the [customs], the people that are obedient to the... Do you know what I mean?
[00:19:23] And if only I could tell you that. And Miriam, I would tell Miriam. So we have a lot of [inaudible] and that. But I tell, Don't pay attention. We go little by little, we go far. And they have said, Oh, we should go back to Puerto Rico. I said, No, we stay here. We don't listen. We have the same pride. They live in their place, we live in our place. And they have the same, you know. And every time I find Spanish speaking, Mexican or something, I only got the privilege to live around American, Italian, mostly Italian people that were born here. [00:20:00] And I'm glad because I could say a lot in Spanish, so that [laughs] you know, that's how I learned my English. And when I started working, I worked with people and [that], you know. But before, until you were. Because the Spanish people, they don't understand. They want everything at one time. This is one reason that Hispanic people, they confused it. [00:20:28] They confused Cuban people with Puerto Rican people. And we are Puerto Rican, you know. I think because we, you know, other people they call us... But we belong to our state, they call it a state. And I think there is a lot of jealousy. All nationalities. But I don't pick no nationality. [00:20:57] But I think Italian people are very, very [inaudible] too. Because I call them a lot of names. But I get acquainted with everybody, [inaudible]. You know, to me I don't have no partiality, but when I see something wrong, I got, I don't know, I open my mouth and I tell them. And they said, You should be something. You should go to school and learn. Let everybody come to me and ask my opinion, What should I do? [00:21:22] I said, Well, you have to do the [inaudible] with your money to live. So you [inaudible] more of where you live and with the people that work with you. But I learned, I said, well, so far I live there, I see now. I see a lot of [changes]. But now it's very nice. There are difficult people. [00:21:41] I think people are getting more education, and more people, more different programs that unite them. And still some Mexicans. I don't say that bad. I don't judge them because I'm nobody to judge people. But according to what I see, they are so positive they want things do it their way and things take time to change little by little. [00:22:11] People that everybody that is unemployed today, you know, they have something in the wrong. They go there. Yeah, but they don't know, you know, the phone and that, from how to get that [help]. You know, they judge, Oh, the employees. The employees don't pocket the money. The employee has to work hard and they suffer to put the effort, the hours, and they take so much from the stranger like so, you know. But now we have, I see now getting very united like that, more, you know. They put it together.
James Calder [00:22:47] The Puerto Rican community has done well in Cleveland. I think of prominent people like José Feliciano who's head of the Cleveland Bar Association, I think, came from the west side, people like that. So have you seen a big change in how prominent –
Juanita Ortiz [00:23:03] I see big changes in family, how people, you know, are getting changes. Before it was hard, you know, for people that come from Puerto Rico here and get a job and that. We found out, you know. I remember people, you know, even around this area, you come to the restaurant, they say, Oh, we don't employ so and so. [00:23:26] And now it's a lot of changes. But I think to me that these are the people, the Detroit Shoreway community, the people that work here, do a lot. They put their effort and do a lot for improving. I go to the councilman that work in this area. I see, I see a lot of councilmen that I know for the ward they do a lot of work and improvements. I think Ward 17, some people come, something happens. But it's not the people that live who live over here. I think it's people that come from some place do the [inaudible]. They go to [inaudible], you know, like that. But it's to me, I hope to see, you know, more things.
Emily Miller [00:24:17] Is the growing Puerto Rican community – are they close?
Juanita Ortiz [00:24:25] Well, now before it was the city, there is something, some [inaudible] things. And the Puerto Ricans, they see you that you got something and they like to compete. And if they said that cup is white and you know it's black, you have to say white. But not with certain, you know, that they like to [inaudible]. They think that and we don't know everything. [00:24:54] We learn from others learning and watching and serving different cultures and that. In the surroundings we learn a lot, you know. But then, you know, a lot of Puerto Rican people don't, you know, they like to compete with each other and all day. But now I think it's getting back to normal according to what I see, very better because now, you know, they're united and that. [00:25:20] But some people are lazy. Like I said, they don't want to put your work and effort. You know, look, when there's La Sagrada Familia church in there, when we had [needs], nobody wanted to work. But if they see somebody working and they comment, Oh, she's working there every day. But nobody wants to do the work to put in their part you know. [00:25:44] I think the [inaudible] around now this, you know, most of the culture now, the old people must pass away that they gave the sound, like they liked to work. But it's everybody, you know, and that. But I see improving among people before, and in those years that I lived and I lived here. [00:26:06] In my country, I remember it was so bad, so bad. Now getting that in election time over there in Puerto Rico, you see people killing each other. Because if you are Republican and the next is Democrat, they fight and they discuss and they [inaudible].
Emily Miller [00:26:29] So what church did you – did you attend a church when you first moved?
Juanita Ortiz [00:26:33] Well, when I first came to Cleveland, we used to go to Blessed Sacrament. My two older children made their first Communion at Blessed Sacrament. Then from there transferred to St. Colman. And now we got, I don't go too often to church now because nobody drives me. But once in a while my friend goes to La Sagrada Familia. [00:26:55] But as far as St. Colman, mostly I go to St. Colman because it's closer to me, as you see, you see Madison to Bridge. You go like this from my house. Today we could walk there. It's close for me to walk there, and I don't need nobody to drive. [00:27:13] But not all the time. I'm very sincere. Once in a while. I pray at home. I go for Communion, and the priest went to my house not too long ago and gave me Communion and that. You know. My kids, now that they are married, they go to different churches. Miriam goes on this side, and my two others live in North Olmstead. [00:27:32] One was a special education educator, 30 years at the Board of Education in Cleveland. And the other one went [inaudible]. The second oldest, she was in the Army, she was in Vietnam, then she worked 30 years at Ford Motor Company. They both live in North Olmsted. They got their houses located there and the rest live around here. [00:28:01] My younger baby lives in between Lorain County and Sheffield Lake. They built their house there, and she is the one that came here with her one year old, and she is there. And I think, you know, the neighborhood, I help them, you know, I used to bring them to the home, and they say, “Oh, you are so strict.” [00:28:28] I said, I don't want to be mean. Oh, you are so and so. I said, I don't blame you. I don't blame you. It's not your fault because you got your own mind to think and do things. I told them, like, they called me mean. I said, Well, call me whatever you want to do, but I want you to do... you know. [00:28:42] So I see a lot of [inaudible] and the community, before you could walk, you know, 52nd street was very dangerous, now. But now that we call [inaudible] And now it's very quiet. But like I tell you, people that come [from] different places to the neighborhood. But in other neighborhoods. The stranger people that come.
Emily Miller [00:29:17] When your children were younger, did they go to public school?
Juanita Ortiz [00:29:24] Yes. The first one was going to Blessed Sacrament School which wasn't in Denison. But then when I moved here, they changed and they go to Waverly. And from Waverly they graduated. My two graduated. Only one graduated from, you know, from Lincoln West. Florence, [inaudible]. And West Tech High School.
[00:29:58] The other one graduated from West Tech School. They learned the skills there and they’re doing good. But they learned, my youngest one learned a lot there, where she took [inaudible] the skill there, and she got the benefit because now she, you know, she went to live in West Lake.
Emily Miller [00:30:21] How long has it been going?
James Calder [00:30:31] I mean it's up to you guys.
James Calder [00:30:32] Do you have any more stories you want to tell us?
Juanita Ortiz [00:30:33] What?
Emily Miller [00:30:35] Do you have any more stories you want to tell us?
Miriam Ortiz [00:30:36] I think you're okay.
Juanita Ortiz [00:30:43] Well, what I have to tell you. If I see anything now, from today, and now I call and communicate and that, I’ll be watching. Maybe the next time I could tell you, you could tell me more, according to my experience, you know. And excuse my English because, you know. [00:31:00] But I hope you understand what I told you. We were not too far [cross talk]. And if anytime we want to make a visit, you are welcome to go to my house. From here, you're not too far. I used to walk from my house a lot, around here. I used to go to McDonald's and buy for my kids. [00:31:20] I used to come over here to buy me a ticket to go to Puerto Rico a lot. I got acquainted with this. Now that I'm getting old, I don't go too much, you know. They don't want me going out because, I said, if you are afraid, you don't do nothing, you know. But I'm not afraid to go out. I’d say, once when you got faith and trust in God, nobody gonna hurt you. [00:31:44] But if you are scared, [inaudible]. I go outside now, I put out my garbage. They say, “Ma, don't go outside.” I say, Nothing gonna happen to me. Get in there [laughs]. When we feel that something gonna happen to us, if we project that, we have... This is how I feel. You are well educated people, this is what I feel. If, when we got something in mind, if we attract our mind, attract our thinking, we have to always think positive, not in the negative, in the negative way, you know? Because if we think negative, we attract negative. I hope you understand me. But if we think positive, we attract the positives, you know? [00:32:35] But that's why I'm not afraid, because I say, well, if I said, I got somebody beat me, I get beat with my mind [laughs]. This is how I feel. [crosstalk] Keep in mind you are young people, and I give you the lesson, continue to teach right. What we project in our mind comes to us. [00:32:56] You know, I wish I could be young and know more. In Spanish. I could tell you a lot. [crosstalk] Thank you. Thank you so much.
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