Abstract
In this interview, Jane Gardener, who grew up in Olmsted Falls, discusses trips downtown from her childhood in the 1960s through young adult years into the 1980s. She recalls that her earliest memory of downtown was an anxiety-producing visit to the dentist. She shares sensory experiences such as the wooden escalators at Higbee’s and Peterson’s Nut Shop in the Park Building. Gardener explains why Mr. Jingeling at Halle’s was such a beloved holiday character for her generation. She also recounts treks into the Flats before its 1980s boom, as well as many concerts at the old Agora when she was a Cleveland State University student.
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Interviewee
Gardener, Jane (interviewee)
Interviewer
Hons, Justin (interviewer);Yanoshik-Wing, Emma (participant)
Project
Cuyahoga County Fair
Date
2006
Document Type
Oral History
Duration
20 minutes
Recommended Citation
"Jane Gardener interview, 2006" (2006). Cleveland Regional Oral History Collection. Interview 907002.
https://engagedscholarship.csuohio.edu/crohc000/900
Transcript
Justin Hons [00:00:00] As close to the mic as you can.
Jane Gardener [00:00:01] Okay.
Justin Hons [00:00:04] She’s gonna be recording this, and it will be archived as part of Cleveland State’s History Department, the public history oral history project that we’re working on right now.
Jane Gardener [00:00:15] Oh, that’s cool. Do you have any literature on it or-
Justin Hons [00:00:18] We don’t actually today. We forgot to bring it.
Jane Gardener [00:00:20] Okay.
Justin Hons [00:00:21] Kind of embarrassing, but if you stop in tomorrow, we’ll be here every night before, from 3 to 6.
Jane Gardener [00:00:27] Okay.
Justin Hons [00:00:27] We’ll try to bring more [inaudible].
Jane Gardener [00:00:29] Do I have to sign any kind of waiver or anything?
Justin Hons [00:00:31] I’ll actually ask if you could just write your name.
Jane Gardener [00:00:34] Sure.
Justin Hons [00:00:35] And then some, you know, contact information.
Jane Gardener [00:00:37] Right here, anywhere.
Justin Hons [00:00:38] Yeah, that’d be great. Don’t worry about the time. And then we’re just going to ask you to, at the beginning of the interview, just kind of verbally say that you give your permission for us to use it.
Jane Gardener [00:00:53] Sure.
Justin Hons [00:00:55] Great. Okay. Well, Jane, if you could go ahead and just state for us your name and if you give us permission to use your interview.
Jane Gardener [00:01:12] Okay. My name is Jane Gardner, and I give you permission to use this oral interview information I give you.
Justin Hons [00:01:20] Jane, what were some of your initial impressions of the city of Cleveland when you first came downtown?
Jane Gardener [00:01:29] Okay. Well, let me- I’ll tell you. I’m 51 years old, and I remember first going downtown when I was a child, probably five, six years old. And it was very exciting and very scary at the same time because it was really- It looked like a big city, especially, especially to a child. So it was bustling, it was exciting. There was a lot going on. My father worked downtown and he commuted, and we lived in Olmsted Falls. And we used to have to go down for dentist appointments. So I do remember going down to my dentist on the corner of, I think it was East 9th and Euclid. And the building is still there. It was on a corner building. And we’d take the rapid transit station down there, which was kind of fun. But I associate it with the anxiety of seeing a dentist. So. And I can remember the old building going up. The old elevators in the hallway had these real shiny floors. And the door, they had dark doors with, like, frosted glass, you know, going down to the offices. I wish I could remember the name of that building. It’s across from the Bulkley Building because that’s where my dad worked, around 1500 Euclid Avenue, I think it was kind of by Playhouse, I think, or the Allen Theatre, one of those. But anyways, the ride back was always fun because I wasn’t so anxious, you know, going home, but it was a big deal. And if we went downtown to shop or anything, my mom would wear a dress and we’d wear gloves. I mean, it was- People got dressed up like they used to get dressed up to go on airplanes. You’d do that if you went downtown on occasion. I also remember going to Halle’s and going to Mr. Jingeling to see him at Christmastime. He would appear on one of the TV shows. I think it was Captain Penny’s TV show during the Christmas holidays. He’d come on at the end of the show and he was at Halle’s. And I think I went and had lunch with him and about 300 other little kids. And you got a balloon and all this stuff, you know, it was kind of fun. So that’s another nice memory I have of downtown. I also remember going to lunch at the Cleveland Athletic Club, which I don’t know if it’s still downtown or not. It is? Okay. They probably moved. I don’t know where it was. Maybe by the Halle Building or something like that. I really don’t know. Where I went was concentrated there and by Higbee’s, too. But I went to lunch there. My dad was a member there, and they gave us finger bowls. And I had to watch everybody else because I didn’t know what to do with them. But, you know, things were much more formal back in the early ’60s than they are now. And then, of course, Higbee’s was really fun to go to because they had those old wooden escalators that rumbled. Did you ever see any wooden escalators? They had these big wooden teeth that just would fit into each other as they come down or go up. And they had this rumbling noise to them. That’s- You just don’t hear that anywhere else. I guess that was always fun place to go to, too, because it was beautiful and it had chandeliers hanging up. And it was just so unique. At least, you know, you don’t see that now either, I don’t think anymore. Which reminded me of Peterson’s Nut Shop. I think it was Peterson’s Nut Shop when you came down to Public Square and Higbee’s was right there. Once you got out front and you crossed the street on the corner, I think was Peterson’s Nut Company. And that aroma would just hit you in the face, and it was really good. So on the streets, I remember that smell very distinctly, too. It was real prevalent. And I think my sisters, I had older sisters, they worked downtown for a little bit at a bank or something. One of them did. And she’d bring home Peterson’s nuts. And that was real exciting. And at Christmastime, we’d get like a box of mixed nuts from Peterson’s. And that was always associated with the holidays. So those are. I didn’t realize I had so many Cleveland memories. I really didn’t, you know, until you asked and I started thinking about that then. Let’s see. Oh, high school, college years. Went to the Agora all the time. East 22nd, I think it was. Or is that the new address? I don’t know. They’ve moved to- That was-
Justin Hons [00:05:51] It’s not there now.
Jane Gardener [00:05:52] Not there now. And I never knew how to get there. I didn’t know the street names. I just would see the landmarks and I know how to drive down there. Saw a lot of great concerts down there, so that was fun. And then a friend of mine and I, he kind of discovered the Flats before it was all built up. And this was before its heyday, even in the ’80s. And on one side, I think it’s the side where Shooters is now. There was really nothing there except this big pile of gravel. It was like a big gravel pit and these machines. And I think we went over- We were on the other side and that was the view. That was probably like late ’70s. And then they started building it up. And then that was the place to be in the ’80s, you know. And we’d go down there on the weekends. It would be packed. I mean, just wall to wall people. But that was fun, you know, it was a good place to take people when they came into Cleveland from out of state or out of town. If you had guests or something, you’d take them down there and show them the sights. That was one of the big places to go. And I spent a lot of time at Cleveland State, which was a good experience for me. It’s convenient. They have an excellent faculty. I think, at least in my program they did. And I really think they still need to work on, I think, their reputation or their image. It’s not as good as it should be, I think, in most people’s minds. Because when you’re down there going to school there, it’s as good a school and just as hard. And the programs are accredited and it’s as good education as you’ll get anywhere, I think. So that was interesting too. And it’s been interesting to see how they have renovated areas of Cleveland State. And just to think about when I first went down there, I was amazed because here’s this university, it just kind of rose up over the city streets, you know, and by the student union. They have all the trees and everything. It’s amazing because right below you is a street. But that was a really good experience. I’m glad it was there. And I think it’s a real good resource for the city. And I know they do a lot of collaborations with businesses and all of that, and graduates, which is wonderful. My mom. This is another memory. My mom went to college when it was just Fenn Tower. You know where Fenn Tower is? That was the university. That was a college. It was actually Fenn College. And that was, I think, the beginnings of Cleveland State. And then I wound up going there, too, which is kind of, not ironic, but just, you know, kind of nice. Let’s see, what else? Do you have any questions? Yeah. Okay.
Justin Hons [00:08:35] What were some of the bands that you saw?
Jane Gardener [00:08:38] The bands? Yeah. Remembering is the hard part. Let’s see. I get them mixed up because we used to go down to Columbus to the Agora there, too. And I know I saw Genesis with Peter Gabriel before he split off from that group. Gosh, I’m trying to remember. The guy there was like. We were squished on the front. I actually. I was lifted off my feet, and I was afraid I wasn’t going to be able to breathe because the crowds were pushing against the doors. And I remember I put my ticket in my hand and I put my hand way up in the air, and this guy, the bouncer or somebody, was at the front door pulling people, and he grabbed my wrist, got me through that crowd, and I had to thank him for saving my life because it was a scary moment. I’m trying to think who we saw. We saw so many people. Southside Johnny and the Asbury Jukes when they’d play. Golly, I wish I would have saved my ticket stubs. It’s really hard to remember. Oh, and they had those big outdoor, the big concert stadium concerts, the World Series of Rock went to a couple of those. And they’d have bands all day long. And this is at the old Brown Stadium. And I remember we were all on the grasp part, and I had about 12 by 12 section of grass to call my own. And I sat there with my knees up like this, my arms around my knees for hours because there was no room to move. It was crazy. But nobody cared. I mean, you know, it was just what you did back then. But I remember seeing people being carried out of those places, too, like on bad trips and just, you know, going nuts, kind of, and weird stuff, but. Oh gosh, I’m blanking out. See, I’m too old to remember everybody at the concerts. I think they used to have a lot of different people. Like Elton John would play with the Beach Boys and they’d have Joe Walsh. Remember seeing Joe Walsh when Rocky Mountain Way came out. That was real big. He was down there. Just caught him at the House of Blues with James Gang. [facilitator asks interviewee not to tap on table] Oh, I’m sorry.
Emma Yanoshik-Wing [00:10:50] It’s okay. I just don’t want it to overpower.
Jane Gardener [00:10:53] Okay, sure.
Justin Hons [00:10:55] You’re talking about Joe Walsh.
Jane Gardener [00:10:57] Yeah, yeah, saw him. Actually, I saw him out at the Berea Fairgrounds back in like 1969 or ’70. And they played for 50 cents and it was just one floor, there were no chairs. He and the band were down at one end and we were all kind of like standing in front of him. Saw Jethro Tull in 1970 at BW. But I’m getting off the, off the topic of seeing bands in Cleveland. Who else did I see? I just can’t remember.
Justin Hons [00:11:25] What about any of the- This is kind of maybe different direction, but did any of the photos that you saw at the exhibit stand out to you or bring back any particular memories? You mentioned Mr. Jingeling. I saw that he had a photo.
Jane Gardener [00:11:38] Mr. Jingeling. Did he? I didn’t get- I didn’t look at him enough long enough so I couldn’t. I can’t answer that. But. But that would have- That would have jog my memory, certainly.
Justin Hons [00:11:47] What was your impression of Mr. Jingeling? I think my generation looking at that photo has a different impression of that particular character- [inaudible]
Jane Gardener [00:11:59] Right. You probably thought, what a weird-looking character. Yeah, well, see, he was on Captain Penny’s show or whatever show that was. And it was just for like the last five minutes. He’d come on at Christmas. This was real special. And he- Do you want me to continue? Okay. He had the set of keys and you know, this was a big deal when you’re five, six years old. And he’d sing this song about Mr. Jingeling, keeper of the keys on Halle’s seventh floor we’ll be looking for you to turn the key. And when you went down there, I have a picture. Oh my gosh, I forgot all about this. I have a picture of myself sitting on Santa Claus lap. This must have been from Halle’s. And I have a key around my neck. It was made out of cardboard or something on a piece of yarn because I got that at Mr. Jingeling’s luncheon or whatever it was. Yep. Yeah, I forgot all about that. So it was- He was- He was warm. I mean, Captain Penny or Barnaby - that was another guy, Barnaby - they were very safe characters for us to watch. It was kind of like- They were kind of like Mr. Rogers. They were our Mr. Rogers, I guess. Especially Barnaby. He got real sappy at the end of his show, too. He’d stand by this wishing well. He’d say, oh, you know, you’re the best little neighbor in the whole world. Or my friend, or something like that. He would just go on and on. So anyways, but getting back to Mr. Jingeling, it was fun and it was just a limited time, so it was very special, you know, so that, yeah, he always reminded me of that wizard in the Wizard of Oz, the guy behind the curtain, kind of, you know. You know, his face. But Mr. Jingeling wasn’t scary. And that guy was scary, you know, when we were kids. So let’s see, what else?
Justin Hons [00:13:41] How do you feel about how- What stands out to you the most about how downtown has changed since when you were younger?
Jane Gardener [00:13:50] That’s a good question. Well, I guess the first things I think about are how Halle’s and Higbee’s aren’t there anymore. And that’s sad. That was a real era and how special everything was now. That’s because it was, I think, from my childhood perception. But I also think things today, everybody has access to everything. It’s too easy to get what you want. So everything has lost how special it is when it’s just very limited or you, you know, going downtown was a big deal. So I kind of miss those elements, I guess. I think it’s cleaned up very nicely, though. It’s a lot cleaner than it used to be. It’s changed, but in good ways. Personally, I love the Free Stamp. I know a lot of people who don’t like the Free Stamp. I love that thing. I just- Because, you know, if you just imagine a giant picking it up and just stamping, stamping it all over the country, like, you know, this is free. It’s a free country. So I like that piece of artwork. I also love the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. I guess that’s part of my generation or something. But of course, I hadn’t gone to it. I had never been down there till this year when it opened 10 years ago. But I was real impressed and I was. It just- But that really brought back something real special to me. Especially with all those concerts. I really- I’m so embarrassed that I can’t remember who I used to go see at these concerts. One time I wrote down a list of people I’d seen just so I’d remember it. It’s crazy, but there were a lot of people and a lot of local bands too. But boy, oh boy, I’m just having a hard time thinking of them. So. I remember coming up from OU one year in ’78, I saw Bob Marley downtown. We used to drive up from, like, Athens to see big-name people, you know, it was nothing to hop in the car. Little Feet. We saw Little Feet play. Saw Bob Marley.
Justin Hons [00:15:57] Bob Marley in downtown Cleveland?
Jane Gardener [00:15:58] Yes. Yeah. Yeah. That was special because that was not too long before he died. Who else? Wow. I’m just- I’m blanking out, but I’d love to tell you.
Justin Hons [00:16:17] What about- How do you view some of the other construct- Some of the other things you talked about? The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame? How do you think about some of, like, the stadium constructions compared to how down- How did that change downtown with the new baseball stadium, the new basketball, the new football stadium?
Jane Gardener [00:16:37] Yeah, okay. You just jogged another memory. When I was in the sixth grade, I was part of Safety Patrol. So we all, all the Safety Patrol people went downtown to a baseball game. And my dad went with us as a- What do you call, you know, just a parent who was going? A chaperone type of person. And I think it was in April. And nowadays if you go down to the stadium in April, you get a sunburn. I went in shorts and I had a little windbreaker. I was freezing. It was so cold that day. But the seats were hard and everything was cement and the bathroom stunk. But that was the old stadium, you know, that made it great. And when I went to a game, I think it was a football game, the new stadium, I couldn’t believe it. It was too nice. That this is too fancy and too soft. And, you know, you go even in the women’s bathroom, you walk in there, you hear the announcer, you don’t miss a thing, you know, and everything’s shiny and clean. It was- I couldn’t believe how different it was. And I really kind of liked the old stadium better, you know, but that’s just being nostalgic, I think, really, because it is state of the art. It’s state of the art. I mean, the thing is beautiful, but it really, I mean, I thought, wow, this isn’t a football stadium anymore. You know, this is something like, I have to go home and change my clothes and put on something a lot nicer or something. It was weird. So that’s changed. Did I complete that. Did I complete my thought on that? Okay. I forgot we went down when I was a kid to the games. Trying to think. What other games? Oh, I saw the Ice Capades downtown when I was about 4. That was a big deal. And I think it was where they had the, we had a hockey team back then. We don’t have a hockey team anymore, but I think we did back in, like, that would have been 1959 or 1960, something like that. That was a big deal, too. But all I remember is sitting there and all the colors and the people on the ice. I don’t even know if the Ice Capades still come here. I don’t know where they go anymore. I don’t go downtown very much anymore. It’s kind of like. It’s too expensive. I work all week. I’m too tired on the weekends. I just want to kind of stay home and rest, you know, and save my money anymore. So I think my view of downtown as a place for entertainment and everything has changed a lot. Even concerts. I’d rather just- I mean, it’s a hassle. A lot of people, a lot of money, you know. I saw Prince, though, a couple years ago. That was phenomenal. Phenomenal show. that was at the Gund, I think. I like seeing somebody really special like that, would go downtown. But not too often anymore.
Justin Hons [00:19:28] Any other last words? You want to get in?
Jane Gardener [00:19:34] You know, I really wish I could remember the concerts. I really enjoyed this. You’ve really made me remember things that I didn’t really realize that Cleveland had such a definite part of my past in it, you know, that I associate with so many things. But they’re good memories. They’re good, pleasant memories. And I really appreciate you taking the time to do this. It’s important, I think. You know, oral histories and all. It’s interesting. Thank you.
Justin Hons [00:19:57] Thanks a lot.
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