Ann Nelson interview, 07 July 2006

Abstract

Ann Nelson, who came to Cleveland in 1965, provides a fresh account of growing up on the East Side of Cleveland and her experiences as an African American woman in Cleveland. She describes changes in the urban environment over time and the racial divisions that have remained constant throughout. As a teacher, Nelson offers her opinions on the state of primary and secondary education in Ohio, as well as the lack of investment Cleveland puts into African American children.

Interviewee

Nelson, Ann (interviewee)

Project

Project Team

Date

7-7-2006

Document Type

Oral History

Duration

62 minutes

Recommended Citation

"Ann Nelson interview, 07 July 2006" (2006). Cleveland Regional Oral History Collection. Interview 999017.
https://engagedscholarship.csuohio.edu/crohc000/979

Related Resources

Project Team @ Cleveland Voices

Transcript

Justin Hons [00:00:03] Hi, Ann.

Ann Nelson [00:00:04] Hi.

Justin Hons [00:00:04] Thanks a lot for joining us here today. Today is July 7, 2006. We’re here, part of the Euclid Corridor Oral History Project. Interviewing Ann Nelson, could you tell me where you were born?

Ann Nelson [00:00:21] I was actually born in Beckley, West Virginia, and don’t have any memories, though, because I was only there, I was told, three months. Then I came to Cleveland, Ohio.

Justin Hons [00:00:32] What year was that?

Ann Nelson [00:00:33] 1965.

Justin Hons [00:00:38] Where did you live in Cleveland?

Ann Nelson [00:00:40] Lived on the east side of Cleveland, the Glenville area. My whole life until I moved to Cleveland Heights about 15, 16 years ago.

Justin Hons [00:00:54] What block did you live at?

Ann Nelson [00:00:56] Off East 105th, Tacoma Avenue.

Justin Hons [00:01:03] What were some of the, what was the neighborhood like then when you lived there?

Ann Nelson [00:01:08] The neighborhood was very family, lots of children, older people, but a mingle of older people with children and went to school there in the area up into high school, then went to a private school. But it was very, I felt safe. However, as the years progressed, there were some things that you didn’t feel safe about. Again, as a child, I really didn’t understand. I was in the inner city, which was just my neighborhood.

Justin Hons [00:01:36] What were some of those things that you didn’t feel safe about?

Ann Nelson [00:01:39] Well, as time moved on, types of crimes such as children, you know, walking to school and not feeling safe alone or people, you know, burglarizing the houses, and then also too, drugs. As the eighties progressed, people hanging on the street corners of 105 and drug dealers and things like that. But within my, on my street, my immediate neighbors, the five to six of houses across or to the right of us, we felt very comfortable. But again, as you move beyond those homes, sometimes as the years progressed, you felt not as safe, but it was just a part of life. You became adjusted, and you just adjusted.

Justin Hons [00:02:21] What was it about the area that you lived in specifically that made you feel comfortable as a child, though?

Ann Nelson [00:02:28] I think because we were there for so long, I don’t have any other memories of living in any other place. And it was quite interesting when we go to school, most people would think teachers would say, you’ve been living in the same house since you were in the second grade and now you’re in the 9th grade. And so it was a neighborhood that I knew. I didn’t know any other place, so I didn’t, you know, I didn’t have a chance to kind of analyze that towards something else. However, you did have television and you saw the Brady Bunch home and all those wonderful places. But it was my home and I felt safe. I had a very comforting mom who made my home feel safe, and it just didn’t feel, you know, uncomfortable. Also, too, we had neighbors who helped out because I was raised by a single mom, and so if she was at work, we felt comforted knowing that we did have people nearby who will help us or watched over us. So it was just a feeling of safety.

Justin Hons [00:03:26] You said it was very family oriented and talked about how that was helpful with your mother raising you. What was, what were some of your interactions with other families and other people in your particular block?

Ann Nelson [00:03:40] Well, it was interesting. Our house was really kind of the house for children because my mom was such a comforting, loving mom. She would just, even though she had four girls, all the kids hung out at our house. All the kids loved our house. We basically adopted two of the children next door because their mom was not home a lot, and they just really felt comfortable in our home. And so they basically would spend weekends with us and have six children. [laughs] So we were really the center children coming to our home. However, they had to be respectful. We had lots of fun outside and played and things like that. As far as the other neighbors, we were helpful as we grew up. You know, when we were young, they seemed old to us, but when you’re 10, 40 is old.[laughs] But as we grew and, you know, we’re in high school, we helped those people, went to the store for them, you know, helped to take them if they need to go to the doctor, things like that, as we started to drive. So it just was a feeling of community. And I also think to, the fact that my mom was a single mom with four girls, they wanted to help make sure to kind of support her, because times could be tough with money, with time. And they all saw that we were respectful children and we did well in school, and so they supported that.

Justin Hons [00:04:56] What did your mom do for a living?

Ann Nelson [00:04:58] My mom was a nurse. As a matter of fact, I should have brought tissue with me, but I don’t think I will. I lost my mom in October of last year, and it’s been a very trying time because she is and was my best friend, but she was a nurse, and it was interesting. She didn’t start off as a nurse. She was a hairdresser. But she realized very early on she needed to take care of her family herself when the marriage didn’t work. And so she went back to school and became a nurse and was a nurse until she retired.

Justin Hons [00:05:32] I want to come back to that, your relationship with your mother a little bit later, but I wanted to ask you, you mentioned watching TV and comparing where you grew up to, say, the Brady Bunch. What was it like for you living on the east side and comparing where you lived to going downtown?

Ann Nelson [00:05:51] Well, going downtown was really like going to a different world. Was going uptown. Lots of different stores, different people. Of course, the buildings were a lot taller. And you just saw so many more people and people that were different than you. Because the community I lived in was predominantly African American. I think when I was a very, very young child, there was a family across the street from us who was a white family. And I think they were the last white family on our street. And they were gone pretty soon. But I lived in a predominantly African American community. However, it really didn’t make a difference when I went downtown because I guess with tv exposure, you know, I wasn’t frightened of other races. But you did see different people and just so many more people and traffic and just, you know, it was just busy, and it was a rush to be downtown. You know, you felt that rush, that energy, which is really sad now.

Justin Hons [00:06:46] So you don’t think there’s the same type of feeling?

Ann Nelson [00:06:49] No, it’s so sad. Euclid is very sad.

Justin Hons [00:06:52] Tell me why.

Ann Nelson [00:06:54] Because when I used to come downtown as a kid, as a teenager, my mom finally allowed us to go by ourselves [laughs] At first, of course, she introduced us to downtown, and then we wanted to. At that time, yes, there were malls, but that’s something that I’m also different than a lot of people. We didn’t have a car, and so that was. It wasn’t strange for me. That’s how we grew up. She never learned how to drive. And also, too, we probably couldn’t afford it anyway, so I used public transportation. So going to the malls was something I really didn’t do. We went downtown, and you would go downtown. It was this rush with people, different stores, if you wanted to go somewhere and get something really cheap. At that time, it wasn’t the dollar store, it was Woolworth’s. But if you wanted to go and look at shiny and pretty things, you’ll run into Halle’s or Higbee’s. And so it was just really fun. Or going to a nice restaurant, which probably wasn’t really expensive. But for us, it was really uptown, so that was just a lot of fun. And then, of course, Christmas was just great. I loved coming down for Christmas. The parades and the big trees and the window displays. And then again, I didn’t know I was poor, but my mom always made sure we came down to the Twigbee Shop and shop, which was just great. And so that’s why I said Euclid is. It’s just so. It’s just really sad, you know, from when I was a child to when I was a teenager can come down. It just doesn’t seem like a lot’s going on.

Justin Hons [00:08:25] You mentioned that your family didn’t have a car, and so how did you get from your home over by 105th to downtown?

Ann Nelson [00:08:36] Well, you would walk to 105th and Tacoma and then cross the street. And in front of the grocery store we shopped was the bus station for the bus number ten. You took the number ten up to either superior at 105 or take it to East 105th and Euclid, transfer it to the number six, and take the number six all the way down to Euclid. You were downtown. And as I grew, I realized I could take different buses. The six a or sometimes the nine would run on Euclid, which I guess they still do now since I’ve gotten a car public trans. I did public transportation no more. I paid my public transportation dues. [laughs]

Justin Hons [00:09:22] So tell me what a typical bus ride was like whenever you were a young girl in Cleveland at that time.

Ann Nelson [00:09:29] It was an adventure.[laughs] One, I really think, you know, when I look back, it helped me to grow because one taking care of myself. Now, I did ride the bus with my mom, but as we grew and we had to ride the bus to school, you learn how to take safety precautions. You learn how to look people in the eye. You learn how not to, you know, feel sorry for yourself because people could pick on you. You also learned about safety zones. You don’t sit at the back of the bus if you’re the only girl. You sit near the front of the bus. Also to, you know, I would avoid certain buses if the buses were packed. So sometimes I would leave school early or if I was going downtown, I made sure I shot and went downtown at a certain hour, so I feel comfortable at bus stations. But the rides could be wild, from really angry bus drivers who had attitude problems to strange things going on in the back of the bus, like dice games or playing cards, or homeless people who are changing clothes, or sometimes guys having too much fun with themselves. So I’ve seen a lot on the bus system. [laughs]

Justin Hons [00:10:41] Can you tell us maybe a particular story that stands out to you as being very— Give us maybe a more detailed glimpse into one of the times that you took the bus that really stands out to you?

Ann Nelson [00:10:55] Well, the one time that I was brave enough to sit midway back towards the bus because it was really crowded and I was tired and I decided to do it. And a guy sat on the outside seat, I sat on the inside and he started doing something to himself. And, you know, I was scared, but I got up. I just got up and started running. And so I just wasn’t going to stay there and be a victim. And again, I didn’t run as far as trying to seek help from the police. I just got the hell off the bus. And it was a lesson learned. I never go to the back of the bus. I stand up. I don’t care how tired I am.

Justin Hons [00:11:31] So how did that shape the way you dealt with other things in your life or did it?

Ann Nelson [00:11:36] I don’t know if it shaped how you dealt with other things, but one, some people may think that it was running away, but I take it as being proactive. I’m just not going to take crap from anyone and I wasn’t going to sit there and feel, I’m scared. I can’t do anything about it. I’d have to just stay here. I got up and just pushed my way past his legs and moved and I wasn’t going to stay there and be a victim to it. So I just, I do know that I think growing up where I grew up and the type of parent I had has made me a very strong individual to be able to deal with a lot of different things in life. Working here at the university, there’s lots of politics behind the scenes in higher ed, and lots of people have often asked me, how are you able to handle those politics and still be very positive and effective as a professional? And I do go back to my childhood, I think, you know, learning how to deal with different things, everything wasn’t easy, but always finding a focus of something positive and that comes from my childhood and my parent to help me. And I say where I grew up because I’m very proud of growing up in the inner city. I always let people know that when I talk to people because a lot of times people think, now you’re educated, you have a master’s degree, you’re working at a university, you’ve done different things. But I let people know I’m from the inner city because it’s nothing to be ashamed of.

Justin Hons [00:13:05] What were some of the places that you went upon taking one of those bus trips for entertainment?

Ann Nelson [00:13:11] For entertainment. Well, I still love to shop and I love to shop and I love shopping. [laughs] So I would say I loved bookstores, too. There was a bookstore called I think Burles Bookstore was, I think, near East 6th Street maybe and Euclid. I loved to go to the bookstore, and of course, I loved Woolworth’s. Loved, loved because I loved girly things. I love polishing my nails and all that stuff and makeup. So I loved Woolworth’s, but I also did enjoy, like I said, Higbee’s. And it was interesting. I started to learn about the rivalry with Higbee’s and May Company. Which one was best? Who liked this? And that’s interesting because it was a rivalry. Some folks thought, well, Higbee’s were a little bit more upscale than May Company and things like that. So that kind of rivalry was really interesting. And then it was really neat. When I was able to, my mom treated. It was just her and myself. We went to the Silver Grille. I think it was a restaurant on the top of Higbee’s. And I go, wow, that’s so fancy. [laughs] So I really love those trips. But also, too, it was interesting because my mom worked at different places on Euclid throughout her life, and it was this old drugstore that, of course, is not there now. It’s where the BP building, I think it was called Cunningham’s or something like that, where she used to work at the soda fountain shop there. And she would tell me about that. [crosstalk] You know what? I do think there was a difference. It’s almost like Target and Walmart. I do think that Higbee’s was a little bit more upscale. I do. But May Company had its place. You know, also, too, May Company introduced me to something else different. As an African American, there’s lots of beauty salons that don’t do African American females’ hair. And unless there are shops within the neighborhood, if you went out the neighborhood, you really couldn’t find too many. Well, May Company had an upscale salon for African American females to get their hair done. So that was something. As I grew and I was a teenager, I would take the bus down and get my hair done at the big salon sometimes and get treated. So that was interesting. But, yeah, I do think Higbee’s was a little bit more upscale.

Justin Hons [00:15:33] You talked about going to some of the Christmas parades downtown. What was it about Christmas downtown in Cleveland that drew you in?

Ann Nelson [00:15:44] Of course, the lights, the windows were just, it was just magical. Well, first of all, the season of Christmas was magical for my family. Again, another strong point of my mom, no matter how much we were in debt or if we were poor, that was a very, very special time for us. And so coming downtown just really kind of just kicked off that special time of feeling good, the beauty of it all, and then also being together. No, we didn’t have a car, but that wasn’t something. I didn’t have a point of reference. There was nothing wrong with all four of us and my mom jumping on the bus and coming down and having fun and putting on our coats and, you know, walking around looking at those things in the parade. You know, I believed in Santa Claus, unlike some children now, I did believe until I was eleven. [laughs] I know it’s old, but she really hit it well.[laughs] So I believed I wanted to see him. And I didn’t get caught up in maybe it was a different period of time with a PC. I didn’t think about race. Oh, why is he not African American? He was a nice person that helped out and gave me beautiful Barbies. So it just the splendor of the shops and the feeling of being together and a feeling of love and safety, just. And also too, being grateful, being grateful that I had this. And it was interesting that we were taught that very early on that we didn’t have a lot, but what we had, we really had to be grateful of it. And I was, I felt like I said, I don’t consider myself poor. When I spoke at my mom’s funeral, I didn’t think I lived in the inner city. I didn’t know.

Justin Hons [00:17:26] When was the first time that you recognized that?

Ann Nelson [00:17:31] Well, as you grew up and of course you start watching the news, I also started to become as a reader, you know, she also was very, very- Education was important. And so my reading, you know, expanded beyond magazines to newspapers and started reading the daily newspapers, then watching the nightly news and all those things. And then you start to see that, oh, hearing those things also, too. I think what’s really interesting is that as I was growing up, I didn’t hear a lot of negative things about our school district. However, as I became a teenager, I really started to read and hear those things. And I often wonder, is that a problem sometimes with kids in the school district now? Because it’s such a hot point to the point that sometimes I wonder if people just feel like, well, I don’t have a chance because the schools are just so bad. And I’m sure a lot of those issues that are going on now were going on in the school systems when I was in Cleveland Public School, but I really wasn’t aware of that. Now, maybe the information was out there, but the way we live now is very different. We live in information, too much information. I think sometimes 24/7 so I think I really started to pick up on that as I started to, you know, read and watch the news. And then you did see the area start to slowly change. You know, when I was walking to my neighborhood, elementary school, I didn’t have people standing on the street corners the way they were when I went to high school at 10th grade. So you did see the difference, the change of the neighborhood, things that started happening more and more. Stores started to shut down when I, you know, was in middle school or elementary school, we had a wonderful fish market up the street that we always would have fish on Friday. That, of course, closed, and nothing ever came back. It was boarded up. People started to ride on a graffiti. Same thing with our local supermarket. Again, not having a car wasn’t an issue because we would just walk right up the street. It was a full-service supermarket, and they were nice enough. They actually brought us home in their van, and so it was never an issue. But then, of course, they slowly went out of business, and nothing ever returned. And so just as Euclid Avenue, you start to see the neighborhood turning. You know, people changing, stores are moving and not being replaced, and then just generally looking run down.

Justin Hons [00:19:53] When was the first time you had an experience of racism?

Ann Nelson [00:19:58] I really. I can remember it very vividly. It was when I was downtown on Euclid, shopping at Woolworth’s, my favorite Woolworth’s. I, again, I can’t remember anything being told to me from my mom. I do remember her telling us about the riots in- Was that the Glenville or the Central area? I forget. And she used to tell us how frightened she was about the fires. But again, as a kid, you hear that kind of history. But I would go downtown shopping, and I love to look. Of course, I bought some things, but I really love to look. And I just started noticing that this guy would start following me. And of course, I was frightened, and he was a Caucasian guy, and I thought, well, you know, why is he following me? And I started noticing every time I would go in, if I’d stayed to any place too long, I would start a trail. Well, one time I was there and back at Woolworth’s, at the back part, I remember they had a little area where you could sit down and eat sometimes. And I noticed one time the same guy had on a uniform. And so I talked to my mom about it, and she said, you know, as a young person, they may think that you’re not gonna pay for something, you know? And also, too, sometimes if people of color, they may look at it a little differently because they think you may steal something. So, you know, just be respectful and watch yourself. And it felt weird knowing that I was being watched, maybe because of my race. And so what I started to do is to change it into a game. I said, well, if you’ve got to follow me, we’ll have some exercise. We’ll have fun. So I would go to all the different departments instead of hanging out in the nail polish and the handbags area. I would go every place and walk and pick up things and just look for long periods of time till he would get tired and move on, because if he was on me that day, we were going to have an adventure together and go throughout various departments so he could have fun with it. So maybe it wasn’t. But I do know that that’s the first time I felt different, possibly different because of my race.

Justin Hons [00:22:18] How old were you?

Ann Nelson [00:22:19] I would say probably about 15, 16.

Justin Hons [00:22:25] In about roughly what year was that, or do you-?

Ann Nelson [00:22:31] I get seventies. Seventies, yeah. Yeah.

Justin Hons [00:22:34] Did you live in Cleveland Heights at that point yet?

Ann Nelson [00:22:36] No. No? No.

Justin Hons [00:22:40] Still living in the Glenville area?

Ann Nelson [00:22:41] Not now.

Justin Hons [00:22:43] No, you weren’t.

Ann Nelson [00:22:44] No, I was still living in the Glenville area. Mm hmm. Yeah. Mm hmm.

Justin Hons [00:22:51] Can we talk a little bit about your mother?

Ann Nelson [00:22:52] Sure.

Justin Hons [00:22:58] You said she was a nurse.

Ann Nelson [00:23:00] Mm hmm.

Justin Hons [00:23:01] But in order to become a nurse, she had to go back to school.

Ann Nelson [00:23:04] Mm hmm.

Justin Hons [00:23:05] How did you feel whenever she went back to school?

Ann Nelson [00:23:08] Well, the thing that she did, she always made sure that we had people with us, we were safe. So as she explained to us why she needed to go back to school and why was it important? One, she wanted to provide us with a home and provide us with needs, and she needed to make more income also, too, it was something she wanted to do. She said she liked helping people, and she said that you can always learn in life. It was never too late to learn. And so what she did is that she made sure that cousins were available when she was off taking classes to care for us. Also, we had an uncle who was not married and didn’t have kids, and so there was always a support mechanism in place. It wasn’t something that we were left on our own or the older sister had to make sure dinner was on again. She preplanned, cooked dinner that night, make sure things were done so we were not, you know, left feeling alone. And it was something she actually did with her job, which to this day, I don’t know how she did it. When she became a nurse, she made the conscious decision not to work the first or second shift because she wanted to be there for us. So she worked the third shift and a lot of people thought that was weird, but from her perspective she would prefer to work when we’re asleep, when we didn’t need her, she felt. And then when she got off at seven, she could get there in time to help make sure we got off to school. And then when we were in school she would take a cat nap and be up when we got back at three to help us with homework. And she worked that shift her whole life and it was again a wonderful gift she gave to us to be there for us. And some days, because she also volunteered at school, she wouldn’t go back to sleep. She would come to school and do some volunteer work and you know, she really worked a lot on not a lot of sleep or she would zone out after homework was done and went to sleep from six, you know, to 9:30 and then get up to go to work. But when I tell people about it, I know growing up I thought, well, gosh, I don’t know if I could do that. But that’s why she did it. And I’m happy she did because it’s true. She wouldn’t have been there if she had worked this second shift as far as to help us with our homework or just to listen to us chat, run our mouths about anything [laughs] and also to develop that friendship. So I think she always had something in place for us. She always had a support mechanism there so we didn’t feel alone or out of place. There was always there. And also too, as she let us know as we grew up. If you need me, we had the phone numbers. If something didn’t feel right at night or something like that. But it was never, you know, issue. Sometimes there was a strange feeling, but it was, you know what? When I look at the trade off, I did prefer having her after school.

Justin Hons [00:25:58] How did your, your mother’s dedication to that affect how you approached education?

Ann Nelson [00:26:07] Well, as a professional today, it’s interesting. I’m on a committee here to help train new academic advisors. And sometimes when advisors observe me because I also advise students, they often ask, well, how do you pull some of those things out? And I’m like, that’s my mom. [laughs] Half of my advising skills. Sometimes I utilize stories or things that she’s giving me, but what she did provide me with was a lesson that you can’t, you may have to work harder than someone else, but you can get it done if you’re willing to make some sacrifices. And I think for a lot of young people today, that’s something that they don’t really want to hear. Things can’t always be instant. You have to make some sacrifices. You have to make some changes. You also have to wait sometimes for things. Everything is not instant gratification. And I waited quite a while for some things as well as she did. But in that waiting, you learn. And I think that’s a really important point that she gave me, which has really helped me. And my grief of missing her is that there are ways to learn from anything positive or negative. And so it goes tied back into education. Lifelong learning. Education is just not about the classroom. It really is a lifelong learning.

Justin Hons [00:27:26] Did your experiences as an African American in Cleveland have any impact on how you approached education whenever you were in high school or later in college?

Ann Nelson [00:27:37] You know what? Again, that’s something. I don’t know how she did it, but it didn’t, because I- When I went to high school, we did go to a private. She was able to save money, and we went to a private high school. And that was the first time I did go to a school where we had white and African American students and Latinos. And for me, because of the way she raised us, it was just an individual. The way you treated me, the similarities we had. I really didn’t care about skin color. However, I was, though, very, very in tune that other people sometimes did and would judge you and not just. Not just another race. Your own race would maybe sometimes judge you because you’re not acting a certain way or you’re not this way or that way, which can be very problematical for African Americans to get caught up into a race game of trying to please your own race or the populist race or whatever. So, no, it didn’t affect me in my education as I moved on through higher Ed, you know, through my undergraduate experience or my graduate experience, because I was so focused on just trying to be the best person that Ann could be and also trying to stay true to myself. However, it didn’t make it easy sometimes because people would judge you, because, again, you didn’t fall into a certain way or type. I’m very hard to typecast. Quick note, I’m a huge football fan, but I love, like I said, girly things. And people, when they meet me, they’re like, are you out of your mind? Because I’m a major football player. I mean, I changed my life around football, so it’s really hard to typecast me, but sometimes that’s hard in society. So I really don’t think. I don’t feel that my race has affected my outlook personally. However, I have seen it affect others, and it’s sad. And that’s one of the things that I think drew me to this profession, trying to help people realize their interest in life, whether it’s a four year degree or just to become a plumber and be okay with that and tapping into who they are. And sometimes people can become off course because of their race.

Justin Hons [00:29:51] What were your interactions with your mother like once you went, once you graduated from high school and moved on to college?

Ann Nelson [00:30:01] I don’t think they changed much. However, I did notice that- And this is something we’ve talked about, you know, because that’s one of the things with my mom. Sometimes maybe it could be a negative or a positive, but we talked about everything, and I mean everything, as that’s why I said, at some point in our life, we move beyond mother daughter to friends. And so when you as a mother, see your children growing, changing their own personalities, developing, being educated, learning about different things and then bringing that back to you and challenging you, that can become a problem. Because I did challenge, as I started to grow of some things or things I saw or questioned and wanted more answers or wanted just a dialogue. And sometimes that did create problems, because as a parent, you go back into the, you know, the relationship, I’m the mom. This is how it has been done. Let’s just do it this way. And sometimes that did become a problem and an issue. But one of the things I think I helped her with, which she has expressed to me, being able to be open to some new things that maybe is not as comfortable, but to take a chance about it, you know? And as we grow, I mean, you know, some people now say, I’m over the hill, I’m 40, but you do become comfortable. And that’s the thing that is exciting about my profession, is being engaged with younger people, you know, typing into some of the things that maybe they see things a little differently and learning how to grow and adjust, I think that’s part of just society. But, yeah, there were some times, and I see that happen with my other siblings, you know, as we grew and were exposed to different parts of the world and different people, maybe that she were not exposed to.

Justin Hons [00:31:48] What are the occupations of your other siblings?

Ann Nelson [00:31:51] Very interesting. I physician assistant. I hate anything to do with the hospital or science. Physician assistant, chemist, which is very interesting. There’s very few black chemists, female chemists. I have no brothers. And then my younger sister right now is a full time mom, but she was working in the fashion industry in New York. Mm hmm. So all four of us went to college and have our undergraduate degrees, and two of the four have their master’s degree.

Justin Hons [00:32:19] Wow.

Ann Nelson [00:32:19] Mm hmm.

Justin Hons [00:32:22] As a family, how did you all deal with the death of your mother at the Cleveland Clinic?

Ann Nelson [00:32:30] Very differently. And I think that’s due to the fact, because as close as we are, we all have very different relationships with her. Like I said, she was friends with all of us, but I will admit we were closer. And I think part of that is because my personality also, too, I had some issues that my other siblings didn’t have growing up. I been overweight all my life, and so I suffered from low self esteem. And so those issues she really worked on with me, which really created a much more intense relationship and also allowed me to open up and real

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