Abstract
Ann Nelson, who came to Cleveland in 1965, provides a fresh account of growing up on the East Side of Cleveland and her experiences as an African American woman in Cleveland. She describes changes in the urban environment over time and the racial divisions that have remained constant throughout. As a teacher, Nelson offers her opinions on the state of primary and secondary education in Ohio, as well as the lack of investment Cleveland puts into African American children.
Interviewee
Nelson, Ann (interviewee)
Project
Project Team
Date
7-7-2006
Document Type
Oral History
Duration
62 minutes
Recommended Citation
"Ann Nelson interview, 07 July 2006" (2006). Cleveland Regional Oral History Collection. Interview 999017.
https://engagedscholarship.csuohio.edu/crohc000/979
Transcript
Justin Hons [00:00:03] Hi, Ann.
Ann Nelson [00:00:04] Hi.
Justin Hons [00:00:04] Thanks a lot for joining us here today. Today is July 7, 2006. We’re here, part of the Euclid Corridor Oral History Project. Interviewing Ann Nelson, could you tell me where you were born?
Ann Nelson [00:00:21] I was actually born in Beckley, West Virginia, and don’t have any memories, though, because I was only there, I was told, three months. Then I came to Cleveland, Ohio.
Justin Hons [00:00:32] What year was that?
Ann Nelson [00:00:33] 1965.
Justin Hons [00:00:38] Where did you live in Cleveland?
Ann Nelson [00:00:40] Lived on the east side of Cleveland, the Glenville area. My whole life until I moved to Cleveland Heights about 15, 16 years ago.
Justin Hons [00:00:54] What block did you live at?
Ann Nelson [00:00:56] Off East 105th, Tacoma Avenue.
Justin Hons [00:01:03] What were some of the, what was the neighborhood like then when you lived there?
Ann Nelson [00:01:08] The neighborhood was very family, lots of children, older people, but a mingle of older people with children and went to school there in the area up into high school, then went to a private school. But it was very, I felt safe. However, as the years progressed, there were some things that you didn’t feel safe about. Again, as a child, I really didn’t understand. I was in the inner city, which was just my neighborhood.
Justin Hons [00:01:36] What were some of those things that you didn’t feel safe about?
Ann Nelson [00:01:39] Well, as time moved on, types of crimes such as children, you know, walking to school and not feeling safe alone or people, you know, burglarizing the houses, and then also too, drugs. As the eighties progressed, people hanging on the street corners of 105 and drug dealers and things like that. But within my, on my street, my immediate neighbors, the five to six of houses across or to the right of us, we felt very comfortable. But again, as you move beyond those homes, sometimes as the years progressed, you felt not as safe, but it was just a part of life. You became adjusted, and you just adjusted.
Justin Hons [00:02:21] What was it about the area that you lived in specifically that made you feel comfortable as a child, though?
Ann Nelson [00:02:28] I think because we were there for so long, I don’t have any other memories of living in any other place. And it was quite interesting when we go to school, most people would think teachers would say, you’ve been living in the same house since you were in the second grade and now you’re in the 9th grade. And so it was a neighborhood that I knew. I didn’t know any other place, so I didn’t, you know, I didn’t have a chance to kind of analyze that towards something else. However, you did have television and you saw the Brady Bunch home and all those wonderful places. But it was my home and I felt safe. I had a very comforting mom who made my home feel safe, and it just didn’t feel, you know, uncomfortable. Also, too, we had neighbors who helped out because I was raised by a single mom, and so if she was at work, we felt comforted knowing that we did have people nearby who will help us or watched over us. So it was just a feeling of safety.
Justin Hons [00:03:26] You said it was very family oriented and talked about how that was helpful with your mother raising you. What was, what were some of your interactions with other families and other people in your particular block?
Ann Nelson [00:03:40] Well, it was interesting. Our house was really kind of the house for children because my mom was such a comforting, loving mom. She would just, even though she had four girls, all the kids hung out at our house. All the kids loved our house. We basically adopted two of the children next door because their mom was not home a lot, and they just really felt comfortable in our home. And so they basically would spend weekends with us and have six children. [laughs] So we were really the center children coming to our home. However, they had to be respectful. We had lots of fun outside and played and things like that. As far as the other neighbors, we were helpful as we grew up. You know, when we were young, they seemed old to us, but when you’re 10, 40 is old.[laughs] But as we grew and, you know, we’re in high school, we helped those people, went to the store for them, you know, helped to take them if they need to go to the doctor, things like that, as we started to drive. So it just was a feeling of community. And I also think to, the fact that my mom was a single mom with four girls, they wanted to help make sure to kind of support her, because times could be tough with money, with time. And they all saw that we were respectful children and we did well in school, and so they supported that.
Justin Hons [00:04:56] What did your mom do for a living?
Ann Nelson [00:04:58] My mom was a nurse. As a matter of fact, I should have brought tissue with me, but I don’t think I will. I lost my mom in October of last year, and it’s been a very trying time because she is and was my best friend, but she was a nurse, and it was interesting. She didn’t start off as a nurse. She was a hairdresser. But she realized very early on she needed to take care of her family herself when the marriage didn’t work. And so she went back to school and became a nurse and was a nurse until she retired.
Justin Hons [00:05:32] I want to come back to that, your relationship with your mother a little bit later, but I wanted to ask you, you mentioned watching TV and comparing where you grew up to, say, the Brady Bunch. What was it like for you living on the east side and comparing where you lived to going downtown?
Ann Nelson [00:05:51] Well, going downtown was really like going to a different world. Was going uptown. Lots of different stores, different people. Of course, the buildings were a lot taller. And you just saw so many more people and people that were different than you. Because the community I lived in was predominantly African American. I think when I was a very, very young child, there was a family across the street from us who was a white family. And I think they were the last white family on our street. And they were gone pretty soon. But I lived in a predominantly African American community. However, it really didn’t make a difference when I went downtown because I guess with tv exposure, you know, I wasn’t frightened of other races. But you did see different people and just so many more people and traffic and just, you know, it was just busy, and it was a rush to be downtown. You know, you felt that rush, that energy, which is really sad now.
Justin Hons [00:06:46] So you don’t think there’s the same type of feeling?
Ann Nelson [00:06:49] No, it’s so sad. Euclid is very sad.
Justin Hons [00:06:52] Tell me why.
Ann Nelson [00:06:54] Because when I used to come downtown as a kid, as a teenager, my mom finally allowed us to go by ourselves [laughs] At first, of course, she introduced us to downtown, and then we wanted to. At that time, yes, there were malls, but that’s something that I’m also different than a lot of people. We didn’t have a car, and so that was. It wasn’t strange for me. That’s how we grew up. She never learned how to drive. And also, too, we probably couldn’t afford it anyway, so I used public transportation. So going to the malls was something I really didn’t do. We went downtown, and you would go downtown. It was this rush with people, different stores, if you wanted to go somewhere and get something really cheap. At that time, it wasn’t the dollar store, it was Woolworth’s. But if you wanted to go and look at shiny and pretty things, you’ll run into Halle’s or Higbee’s. And so it was just really fun. Or going to a nice restaurant, which probably wasn’t really expensive. But for us, it was really uptown, so that was just a lot of fun. And then, of course, Christmas was just great. I loved coming down for Christmas. The parades and the big trees and the window displays. And then again, I didn’t know I was poor, but my mom always made sure we came down to the Twigbee Shop and shop, which was just great. And so that’s why I said Euclid is. It’s just so. It’s just really sad, you know, from when I was a child to when I was a teenager can come down. It just doesn’t seem like a lot’s going on.
Justin Hons [00:08:25] You mentioned that your family didn’t have a car, and so how did you get from your home over by 105th to downtown?
Ann Nelson [00:08:36] Well, you would walk to 105th and Tacoma and then cross the street. And in front of the grocery store we shopped was the bus station for the bus number ten. You took the number ten up to either superior at 105 or take it to East 105th and Euclid, transfer it to the number six, and take the number six all the way down to Euclid. You were downtown. And as I grew, I realized I could take different buses. The six a or sometimes the nine would run on Euclid, which I guess they still do now since I’ve gotten a car public trans. I did public transportation no more. I paid my public transportation dues. [laughs]
Justin Hons [00:09:22] So tell me what a typical bus ride was like whenever you were a young girl in Cleveland at that time.
Ann Nelson [00:09:29] It was an adventure.[laughs] One, I really think, you know, when I look back, it helped me to grow because one taking care of myself. Now, I did ride the bus with my mom, but as we grew and we had to ride the bus to school, you learn how to take safety precautions. You learn how to look people in the eye. You learn how not to, you know, feel sorry for yourself because people could pick on you. You also learned about safety zones. You don’t sit at the back of the bus if you’re the only girl. You sit near the front of the bus. Also to, you know, I would avoid certain buses if the buses were packed. So sometimes I would leave school early or if I was going downtown, I made sure I shot and went downtown at a certain hour, so I feel comfortable at bus stations. But the rides could be wild, from really angry bus drivers who had attitude problems to strange things going on in the back of the bus, like dice games or playing cards, or homeless people who are changing clothes, or sometimes guys having too much fun with themselves. So I’ve seen a lot on the bus system. [laughs]
Justin Hons [00:10:41] Can you tell us maybe a particular story that stands out to you as being very— Give us maybe a more detailed glimpse into one of the times that you took the bus that really stands out to you?
Ann Nelson [00:10:55] Well, the one time that I was brave enough to sit midway back towards the bus because it was really crowded and I was tired and I decided to do it. And a guy sat on the outside seat, I sat on the inside and he started doing something to himself. And, you know, I was scared, but I got up. I just got up and started running. And so I just wasn’t going to stay there and be a victim. And again, I didn’t run as far as trying to seek help from the police. I just got the hell off the bus. And it was a lesson learned. I never go to the back of the bus. I stand up. I don’t care how tired I am.
Justin Hons [00:11:31] So how did that shape the way you dealt with other things in your life or did it?
Ann Nelson [00:11:36] I don’t know if it shaped how you dealt with other things, but one, some people may think that it was running away, but I take it as being proactive. I’m just not going to take crap from anyone and I wasn’t going to sit there and feel, I’m scared. I can’t do anything about it. I’d have to just stay here. I got up and just pushed my way past his legs and moved and I wasn’t going to stay there and be a victim to it. So I just, I do know that I think growing up where I grew up and the type of parent I had has made me a very strong individual to be able to deal with a lot of different things in life. Working here at the university, there’s lots of politics behind the scenes in higher ed, and lots of people have often asked me, how are you able to handle those politics and still be very positive and effective as a professional? And I do go back to my childhood, I think, you know, learning how to deal with different things, everything wasn’t easy, but always finding a focus of something positive and that comes from my childhood and my parent to help me. And I say where I grew up because I’m very proud of growing up in the inner city. I always let people know that when I talk to people because a lot of times people think, now you’re educated, you have a master’s degree, you’re working at a university, you’ve done different things. But I let people know I’m from the inner city because it’s nothing to be ashamed of.
Justin Hons [00:13:05] What were some of the places that you went upon taking one of those bus trips for entertainment?
Ann Nelson [00:13:11] For entertainment. Well, I still love to shop and I love to shop and I love shopping. [laughs] So I would say I loved bookstores, too. There was a bookstore called I think Burles Bookstore was, I think, near East 6th Street maybe and Euclid. I loved to go to the bookstore, and of course, I loved Woolworth’s. Loved, loved because I loved girly things. I love polishing my nails and all that stuff and makeup. So I loved Woolworth’s, but I also did enjoy, like I said, Higbee’s. And it was interesting. I started to learn about the rivalry with Higbee’s and May Company. Which one was best? Who liked this? And that’s interesting because it was a rivalry. Some folks thought, well, Higbee’s were a little bit more upscale than May Company and things like that. So that kind of rivalry was really interesting. And then it was really neat. When I was able to, my mom treated. It was just her and myself. We went to the Silver Grille. I think it was a restaurant on the top of Higbee’s. And I go, wow, that’s so fancy. [laughs] So I really love those trips. But also, too, it was interesting because my mom worked at different places on Euclid throughout her life, and it was this old drugstore that, of course, is not there now. It’s where the BP building, I think it was called Cunningham’s or something like that, where she used to work at the soda fountain shop there. And she would tell me about that. [crosstalk] You know what? I do think there was a difference. It’s almost like Target and Walmart. I do think that Higbee’s was a little bit more upscale. I do. But May Company had its place. You know, also, too, May Company introduced me to something else different. As an African American, there’s lots of beauty salons that don’t do African American females’ hair. And unless there are shops within the neighborhood, if you went out the neighborhood, you really couldn’t find too many. Well, May Company had an upscale salon for African American females to get their hair done. So that was something. As I grew and I was a teenager, I would take the bus down and get my hair done at the big salon sometimes and get treated. So that was interesting. But, yeah, I do think Higbee’s was a little bit more upscale.
Justin Hons [00:15:33] You talked about going to some of the Christmas parades downtown. What was it about Christmas downtown in Cleveland that drew you in?
Ann Nelson [00:15:44] Of course, the lights, the windows were just, it was just magical. Well, first of all, the season of Christmas was magical for my family. Again, another strong point of my mom, no matter how much we were in debt or if we were poor, that was a very, very special time for us. And so coming downtown just really kind of just kicked off that special time of feeling good, the beauty of it all, and then also being together. No, we didn’t have a car, but that wasn’t something. I didn’t have a point of reference. There was nothing wrong with all four of us and my mom jumping on the bus and coming down and having fun and putting on our coats and, you know, walking around looking at those things in the parade. You know, I believed in Santa Claus, unlike some children now, I did believe until I was eleven. [laughs] I know it’s old, but she really hit it well.[laughs] So I believed I wanted to see him. And I didn’t get caught up in maybe it was a different period of time with a PC. I didn’t think about race. Oh, why is he not African American? He was a nice person that helped out and gave me beautiful Barbies. So it just the splendor of the shops and the feeling of being together and a feeling of love and safety, just. And also too, being grateful, being grateful that I had this. And it was interesting that we were taught that very early on that we didn’t have a lot, but what we had, we really had to be grateful of it. And I was, I felt like I said, I don’t consider myself poor. When I spoke at my mom’s funeral, I didn’t think I lived in the inner city. I didn’t know.
Justin Hons [00:17:26] When was the first time that you recognized that?
Ann Nelson [00:17:31] Well, as you grew up and of course you start watching the news, I also started to become as a reader, you know, she also was very, very- Education was important. And so my reading, you know, expanded beyond magazines to newspapers and started reading the daily newspapers, then watching the nightly news and all those things. And then you start to see that, oh, hearing those things also, too. I think what’s really interesting is that as I was growing up, I didn’t hear a lot of negative things about our school district. However, as I became a teenager, I really started to read and hear those things. And I often wonder, is that a problem sometimes with kids in the school district now? Because it’s such a hot point to the point that sometimes I wonder if people just feel like, well, I don’t have a chance because the schools are just so bad. And I’m sure a lot of those issues that are going on now were going on in the school systems when I was in Cleveland Public School, but I really wasn’t aware of that. Now, maybe the information was out there, but the way we live now is very different. We live in information, too much information. I think sometimes 24/7 so I think I really started to pick up on that as I started to, you know, read and watch the news. And then you did see the area start to slowly change. You know, when I was walking to my neighborhood, elementary school, I didn’t have people standing on the street corners the way they were when I went to high school at 10th grade. So you did see the difference, the change of the neighborhood, things that started happening more and more. Stores started to shut down when I, you know, was in middle school or elementary school, we had a wonderful fish market up the street that we always would have fish on Friday. That, of course, closed, and nothing ever came back. It was boarded up. People started to ride on a graffiti. Same thing with our local supermarket. Again, not having a car wasn’t an issue because we would just walk right up the street. It was a full-service supermarket, and they were nice enough. They actually brought us home in their van, and so it was never an issue. But then, of course, they slowly went out of business, and nothing ever returned. And so just as Euclid Avenue, you start to see the neighborhood turning. You know, people changing, stores are moving and not being replaced, and then just generally looking run down.
Justin Hons [00:19:53] When was the first time you had an experience of racism?
Ann Nelson [00:19:58] I really. I can remember it very vividly. It was when I was downtown on Euclid, shopping at Woolworth’s, my favorite Woolworth’s. I, again, I can’t remember anything being told to me from my mom. I do remember her telling us about the riots in- Was that the Glenville or the Central area? I forget. And she used to tell us how frightened she was about the fires. But again, as a kid, you hear that kind of history. But I would go downtown shopping, and I love to look. Of course, I bought some things, but I really love to look. And I just started noticing that this guy would start following me. And of course, I was frightened, and he was a Caucasian guy, and I thought, well, you know, why is he following me? And I started noticing every time I would go in, if I’d stayed to any place too long, I would start a trail. Well, one time I was there and back at Woolworth’s, at the back part, I remember they had a little area where you could sit down and eat sometimes. And I noticed one time the same guy had on a uniform. And so I talked to my mom about it, and she said, you know, as a young person, they may think that you’re not gonna pay for something, you know? And also, too, sometimes if people of color, they may look at it a little differently because they think you may steal something. So, you know, just be respectful and watch yourself. And it felt weird knowing that I was being watched, maybe because of my race. And so what I started to do is to change it into a game. I said, well, if you’ve got to follow me, we’ll have some exercise. We’ll have fun. So I would go to all the different departments instead of hanging out in the nail polish and the handbags area. I would go every place and walk and pick up things and just look for long periods of time till he would get tired and move on, because if he was on me that day, we were going to have an adventure together and go throughout various departments so he could have fun with it. So maybe it wasn’t. But I do know that that’s the first time I felt different, possibly different because of my race.
Justin Hons [00:22:18] How old were you?
Ann Nelson [00:22:19] I would say probably about 15, 16.
Justin Hons [00:22:25] In about roughly what year was that, or do you-?
Ann Nelson [00:22:31] I get seventies. Seventies, yeah. Yeah.
Justin Hons [00:22:34] Did you live in Cleveland Heights at that point yet?
Ann Nelson [00:22:36] No. No? No.
Justin Hons [00:22:40] Still living in the Glenville area?
Ann Nelson [00:22:41] Not now.
Justin Hons [00:22:43] No, you weren’t.
Ann Nelson [00:22:44] No, I was still living in the Glenville area. Mm hmm. Yeah. Mm hmm.
Justin Hons [00:22:51] Can we talk a little bit about your mother?
Ann Nelson [00:22:52] Sure.
Justin Hons [00:22:58] You said she was a nurse.
Ann Nelson [00:23:00] Mm hmm.
Justin Hons [00:23:01] But in order to become a nurse, she had to go back to school.
Ann Nelson [00:23:04] Mm hmm.
Justin Hons [00:23:05] How did you feel whenever she went back to school?
Ann Nelson [00:23:08] Well, the thing that she did, she always made sure that we had people with us, we were safe. So as she explained to us why she needed to go back to school and why was it important? One, she wanted to provide us with a home and provide us with needs, and she needed to make more income also, too, it was something she wanted to do. She said she liked helping people, and she said that you can always learn in life. It was never too late to learn. And so what she did is that she made sure that cousins were available when she was off taking classes to care for us. Also, we had an uncle who was not married and didn’t have kids, and so there was always a support mechanism in place. It wasn’t something that we were left on our own or the older sister had to make sure dinner was on again. She preplanned, cooked dinner that night, make sure things were done so we were not, you know, left feeling alone. And it was something she actually did with her job, which to this day, I don’t know how she did it. When she became a nurse, she made the conscious decision not to work the first or second shift because she wanted to be there for us. So she worked the third shift and a lot of people thought that was weird, but from her perspective she would prefer to work when we’re asleep, when we didn’t need her, she felt. And then when she got off at seven, she could get there in time to help make sure we got off to school. And then when we were in school she would take a cat nap and be up when we got back at three to help us with homework. And she worked that shift her whole life and it was again a wonderful gift she gave to us to be there for us. And some days, because she also volunteered at school, she wouldn’t go back to sleep. She would come to school and do some volunteer work and you know, she really worked a lot on not a lot of sleep or she would zone out after homework was done and went to sleep from six, you know, to 9:30 and then get up to go to work. But when I tell people about it, I know growing up I thought, well, gosh, I don’t know if I could do that. But that’s why she did it. And I’m happy she did because it’s true. She wouldn’t have been there if she had worked this second shift as far as to help us with our homework or just to listen to us chat, run our mouths about anything [laughs] and also to develop that friendship. So I think she always had something in place for us. She always had a support mechanism there so we didn’t feel alone or out of place. There was always there. And also too, as she let us know as we grew up. If you need me, we had the phone numbers. If something didn’t feel right at night or something like that. But it was never, you know, issue. Sometimes there was a strange feeling, but it was, you know what? When I look at the trade off, I did prefer having her after school.
Justin Hons [00:25:58] How did your, your mother’s dedication to that affect how you approached education?
Ann Nelson [00:26:07] Well, as a professional today, it’s interesting. I’m on a committee here to help train new academic advisors. And sometimes when advisors observe me because I also advise students, they often ask, well, how do you pull some of those things out? And I’m like, that’s my mom. [laughs] Half of my advising skills. Sometimes I utilize stories or things that she’s giving me, but what she did provide me with was a lesson that you can’t, you may have to work harder than someone else, but you can get it done if you’re willing to make some sacrifices. And I think for a lot of young people today, that’s something that they don’t really want to hear. Things can’t always be instant. You have to make some sacrifices. You have to make some changes. You also have to wait sometimes for things. Everything is not instant gratification. And I waited quite a while for some things as well as she did. But in that waiting, you learn. And I think that’s a really important point that she gave me, which has really helped me. And my grief of missing her is that there are ways to learn from anything positive or negative. And so it goes tied back into education. Lifelong learning. Education is just not about the classroom. It really is a lifelong learning.
Justin Hons [00:27:26] Did your experiences as an African American in Cleveland have any impact on how you approached education whenever you were in high school or later in college?
Ann Nelson [00:27:37] You know what? Again, that’s something. I don’t know how she did it, but it didn’t, because I- When I went to high school, we did go to a private. She was able to save money, and we went to a private high school. And that was the first time I did go to a school where we had white and African American students and Latinos. And for me, because of the way she raised us, it was just an individual. The way you treated me, the similarities we had. I really didn’t care about skin color. However, I was, though, very, very in tune that other people sometimes did and would judge you and not just. Not just another race. Your own race would maybe sometimes judge you because you’re not acting a certain way or you’re not this way or that way, which can be very problematical for African Americans to get caught up into a race game of trying to please your own race or the populist race or whatever. So, no, it didn’t affect me in my education as I moved on through higher Ed, you know, through my undergraduate experience or my graduate experience, because I was so focused on just trying to be the best person that Ann could be and also trying to stay true to myself. However, it didn’t make it easy sometimes because people would judge you, because, again, you didn’t fall into a certain way or type. I’m very hard to typecast. Quick note, I’m a huge football fan, but I love, like I said, girly things. And people, when they meet me, they’re like, are you out of your mind? Because I’m a major football player. I mean, I changed my life around football, so it’s really hard to typecast me, but sometimes that’s hard in society. So I really don’t think. I don’t feel that my race has affected my outlook personally. However, I have seen it affect others, and it’s sad. And that’s one of the things that I think drew me to this profession, trying to help people realize their interest in life, whether it’s a four year degree or just to become a plumber and be okay with that and tapping into who they are. And sometimes people can become off course because of their race.
Justin Hons [00:29:51] What were your interactions with your mother like once you went, once you graduated from high school and moved on to college?
Ann Nelson [00:30:01] I don’t think they changed much. However, I did notice that- And this is something we’ve talked about, you know, because that’s one of the things with my mom. Sometimes maybe it could be a negative or a positive, but we talked about everything, and I mean everything, as that’s why I said, at some point in our life, we move beyond mother daughter to friends. And so when you as a mother, see your children growing, changing their own personalities, developing, being educated, learning about different things and then bringing that back to you and challenging you, that can become a problem. Because I did challenge, as I started to grow of some things or things I saw or questioned and wanted more answers or wanted just a dialogue. And sometimes that did create problems, because as a parent, you go back into the, you know, the relationship, I’m the mom. This is how it has been done. Let’s just do it this way. And sometimes that did become a problem and an issue. But one of the things I think I helped her with, which she has expressed to me, being able to be open to some new things that maybe is not as comfortable, but to take a chance about it, you know? And as we grow, I mean, you know, some people now say, I’m over the hill, I’m 40, but you do become comfortable. And that’s the thing that is exciting about my profession, is being engaged with younger people, you know, typing into some of the things that maybe they see things a little differently and learning how to grow and adjust, I think that’s part of just society. But, yeah, there were some times, and I see that happen with my other siblings, you know, as we grew and were exposed to different parts of the world and different people, maybe that she were not exposed to.
Justin Hons [00:31:48] What are the occupations of your other siblings?
Ann Nelson [00:31:51] Very interesting. I physician assistant. I hate anything to do with the hospital or science. Physician assistant, chemist, which is very interesting. There’s very few black chemists, female chemists. I have no brothers. And then my younger sister right now is a full time mom, but she was working in the fashion industry in New York. Mm hmm. So all four of us went to college and have our undergraduate degrees, and two of the four have their master’s degree.
Justin Hons [00:32:19] Wow.
Ann Nelson [00:32:19] Mm hmm.
Justin Hons [00:32:22] As a family, how did you all deal with the death of your mother at the Cleveland Clinic?
Ann Nelson [00:32:30] Very differently. And I think that’s due to the fact, because as close as we are, we all have very different relationships with her. Like I said, she was friends with all of us, but I will admit we were closer. And I think part of that is because my personality also, too, I had some issues that my other siblings didn’t have growing up. I been overweight all my life, and so I suffered from low self esteem. And so those issues she really worked on with me, which really created a much more intense relationship and also allowed me to open up and really not judge people. You know, one of the things I have done in my life is that I’ve used my experience of being overweight is that I feel that I’m very open to everyone and all types of people because I know what it’s like to be judged. And so with that in mind, I think we have dealt with her death differently. For me, I’ve always. Some people have said, oh, you shouldn’t think that way. But I’ve been somewhat preparing myself. I couldn’t have prepared myself with the longing, just her friendship, just hearing her on the phone, I just can’t imagine. I just really didn’t realize I was going to miss it that much. But I had prepared myself for that. She would move on, and part of that’s because we had a strong spiritual connection. That’s another difference that she didn’t have with my other siblings. She did allow us to decide on our own religion, and for her and I, we had a really deep spiritual connection beyond a church. And so that has really helped me to deal with her death, that she is definitely at a better place. And I also wanted to honor her because I really am. I would not be where I am today without her. So for me, her death was about accepting that she is in a better place and honoring her and knowing that she will never really be gone, because it’s just not about the physical. She is really a part of me. And so that has really helped me, and I really have been happy that I’ve been able to do some things in the last couple of months. To honor her memory, I created a scholarship at my. At Notre Dame College, where I graduated from in her name, for nursing students who are single moms. So we’re going to give our first scholarship this fall, which I’m really proud that I wanted. I knew that was something whenever she passed. I wanted to honor her name in education because she sacrificed so much money, time, sleep to help all of us become educated. And so it has been interesting to see how we’ve all dealt with her death differently. And it’s something that I do think it’s a reflection on our personality. I’m a very introspective person. I do a lot of thinking, a lot of praying and meditating, and I just also like to focus on positive. What are the good things that I benefited from her being alive, and what are the things that I can do now to be positive? Not to say I don’t cry every other day or sometimes when I’m driving home in the car and I can’t give her a call. But I also know she wouldn’t want that, because, as she said, she sacrificed way too much for me to give up now.
Justin Hons [00:35:47] Is that Notre Dame College here in Ohio?
Ann Nelson [00:35:48] Mm hmm. Yeah. And where did you get your masters at here? You know, I really wanted to do something here at CSU, but CSU is such a large school, had such red tape, couldn’t work anything out. So I went to my. It’s a small school, and there’s, like, no problem, you know, because don’t have a large amount of funds. But I. It’s enough that’s going to really help the student. So I wanted to have some say, so I wanted to write the criteria. I want to be involved in the selection process, and I wanted her name on the scholarship, and so CSU just couldn’t provide that. So that’s okay.
Justin Hons [00:36:27] I’m going to ask the facilitator. Can I just have a time check, please? 36. Should have brought a watch. Can you talk a little bit about what it was like for you in grad school here at Cleveland State?
Ann Nelson [00:36:45] Well, that was an adventure because it was interesting. That was the period of time that I had elapsed from the city. In that interim, I had moved to the suburbs and left the Glenville area and graduated from Notre Dame College and become a [suburbanite], you know, hung out in Cleveland Heights, South Euclid, Lyndhurst, those places. So downtown was something- I really hadn’t done downtown too much. So I was a little frightened. I become city phobia. I’m like, oh, my gosh, that’s the big school that’s down there. You know, lots of crime. I’m not so sure. And so but I wanted this program because I knew what my ultimate goal was. So I came on down here first day, got lost, and fell in love with Euclid and the school. And I’m like, this place is not so bad. My program is very small. You know, I didn’t experience the undergraduate, which is much larger than Notre Dame, but my graduate program, I knew all of my professors didn’t have any major problems. Once I learned the parking system down here, and some of the strangeness that had changed since I left the city, I really adjusted to it. And it’s interesting, like I said, working as a professional down here now after going to grad school, you know, walking over here, thinking about the nights of being down here to 10:00, like, oh, my gosh, another four-hour class. Or again, seeing how Euclid had changed, just how dark it was. I mean, it was never a lively city such as Chicago, but it had changed. And also, too, to see that Cleveland State had expanded, but not to the level they’re expanding now, which I’m happy to see. But it really was strange to kind of return to the city. And Euclid Avenue, where I used to shop and come downtown, no longer shopped. You know, I had never. Tower City was, you know, here, but I just still- I had become a [suburbanite]. I just didn’t come downtown to Cleveland. And it was interesting returning to be educated now on Euclid Avenue at CSU.
Justin Hons [00:38:49] How did your phobia of returning to the city affect how you looked at coming back to Cleveland State originally, then? Did that change at all?
Ann Nelson [00:39:00] When I came back as a professional?
Justin Hons [00:39:02] After being back here for a while, did that change?
Ann Nelson [00:39:04] Yeah, it did change. Well, one of the things is that after being here for a while, it instantly tapped back into my, you know, who I was, being a part of the city, not being phased at strange folks walking down the street, asking for money, or just all the silly things that you may see, you know, opposed to being frightened of that, again, having a clear mind, being conscious, keeping your eyes open, and having a focal point, not, you know, living in a bubble, also to really experiencing a lot of the differences that you didn’t sometime experience, even though Cleveland Heights is a very, very diverse city, but again, being downtown is different. It’s very different than living in a small community, and also to embracing those differences and learning more about, you know, people. And the thing that I did enjoy about the graduate program is that it was the adult learning program. So I really got a chance to meet people who I don’t know, if I would have met before, and their backgrounds was also very interesting to see the dynamics of other people coming downtown. If I had a phobia, my phobia was very low compared to some folks who were just petrified, who had never been downtown Cleveland and were just very frightened. So I kind of think that helped to ease my fear, because I was the strength for a lot of those people who were very frightened [laughs] of Cleveland because they had never even been in downtown Cleveland. They truly grew up in the suburbs, worked in the suburbs, and had nothing to do with Cleveland. So that was interesting, kind of being their guide and developing lifelong friendships. One of my friends I met in graduate school is now a professor over here in the Urban College. So it’s interesting to, you know, the people I’ve met and I was able to influence as well.
Justin Hons [00:40:52] Can you maybe give an example of a person that you were surprised to become friends with upon coming back to Cleveland State?
Ann Nelson [00:41:01] You know, I would say she’s working at Case right now. And it was interesting because we had several classes together, and she didn’t seem very friendly. And I realized early on what the issue was, and she confided in me. She did not have a lot of interactions with African Americans, where she grew up, where she worked. She had come from the Boston area, small town in the Boston area, went to a private school, and just, you know, from afar, but not a real relationship. And this really came out during a group dynamics class we had together. In the group dynamics class, we were placed into a group which you had to work the entire semester. You didn’t have a choice, and you didn’t have a choice of who you selected. All the papers, all the tests were done by groups. And so within those group dynamic sessions, we learned a lot about ourselves in which I myself was very frightened sometimes because I’m not a big group person, but I. When I have actually had interviews, professional interviews, I tap into that class a lot because I learned a lot about myself. I learned a lot about other people, and I also learned about allowing people to express themselves and not being frightened of those answers. Because I think when you allow people to express who they are freely, you can then maybe start to do some healing. But when people are so frightened to express maybe fears they have or things that they don’t know about, they’re ignorant of something, they keep that in, and they never learn something different. So what’s interesting is that I think she has a different perspective. I know she has a different perspective of African American individuals because, again, don’t know how many more friends she may have had, but our relationship really developed and grew from that class, and we still have contact today. And I think, you know, it’s because of our friendship that I’m wondering if that’s why she stayed in the Cleveland area, you know? Now, again, trying to get a position to higher ed is difficult. But even though Case is not CSU from where she came from, she’s working with a lot more diverse students than what she was from where she was from.
Justin Hons [00:43:15] What’s your take, then, on how the status of race has changed in Cleveland from when you were young in the sixties and seventies to today?
Ann Nelson [00:43:24] You know what? I don’t think it’s changed very much. And that’s the sad point. I know when I grew up, I always heard about the west side. The west side, [laughs] it was so bizarre. It’s like the west side. It was this almost like the May Company - Higbee’s thing.[laughs] What is it? And I didn’t know very many people from the west side. I didn’t go over to the west side. It was just this big thing. And today, yeah, there are some changes, and we do have some diverse neighborhoods. Like I said, I truly do love Cleveland Heights for that reason. I know Lakewood is somewhat diverse, but I do feel that we are still a very segregated city, not only within this inner city, but also, too, as you move throughout the suburbs, the further you go west, the further you go east. It’s just. I don’t think a lot has changed. I really don’t. I think people are much more aware of it. I think people are a little bit more, how could I say PC? They don’t want to consciously say, oh, well, you know what? I think I need to leave Cleveland Heights and move to Solon or move a little further out to Twinsburg. You know, the housing, the school, whatever. I think they’re more conscious to be PC about it. But I think it’s still a major issue in Cleveland. And I think that’s one of the things that has kept this city back and it hurts this city till today, is that I think it’s still very racially divided. I think we have pockets of diversity, but it’s still very divided.
Justin Hons [00:44:55] Do you see anyone that’s doing anything that you admire to change that in the city?
Ann Nelson [00:45:03] No. No. You know, even as wonderful as Cleveland Heights is, there’s problems in Cleveland Heights. There’s pockets of Cleveland Heights that’s basically all African American. There’s pockets in Cleveland Heights that’s basically all wealthy Caucasians. However, when you look at Cleveland or other cities in the area, it’s still far more diverse. I mean, I’ve lived now on three different streets in Cleveland Heights, and every street I’ve lived on, it’s been Black, white, just everyone, all types of people. And so it’s an issue. And quite frankly, because of my interest in helping with education and the problems of what’s going on in so many of our inner ring suburbs as well as cities, I’m looking at proposing something to work with the city of Cleveland Heights to develop initiatives for youth in the city. Because I think when you start to have problems, and it’s starting to happen in Cleveland Heights, issues with race, people thinking that the young kids, young African American males, don’t have things to do or are just hanging out or not making the right decisions or things like that, or just youth, period. I just think we as a community, if you don’t invest in youth, then most people, as we were young, if you didn’t have something to help you with, you know, bide your time, you did something negative. And so, I don’t know. We’ll see. I’m going to do some workshops for the Cleveland Heights Library when they reopen in September, some workshops regarding academic study skills and career exploration. So we’ll see. We’ll go from there.
Justin Hons [00:46:40] What will these workshops entail?
Ann Nelson [00:46:42] Well, I really see that right now in education and not just higher education. And based upon working with college students now for the last five years, there’s a major disconnection in the middle schools and definitely in the high schools. And I think I really would love to target the middle schools because the high schools, it’s not that they’re so far gone, but for certain majors, you need four years of math, you need four years of science. If you don’t know that, then that’s why you come into school unprepared and you basically need 13th grade to get you prepared. And so you’re in school another year. But I would love to educate not only students, but parents about various majors and careers and the skill sets needed. Right now, one of the hot majors and hot careers are pharmacists, because we don’t have enough pharmacists throughout the United States, also due to the baby boom generation, aging and the need of medicines. However, just because a pharmacist will make $60,000 if you don’t like entry level biology and you don’t have the right skill set, you’re going to fail. I don’t care if mom says that’s what you’re going to major in. Well, John really loves studying history. What’s wrong with history? But parents and kids don’t understand what are some of the things you may can do with a certain major or career interest and explore that very early on. So then when you get to college or you’re in high school, you’re going to put yourself in the right position and not to fail. Too many students are being set up to fail. And so once you don’t do well in school the first semester, the odds on you’re not returning is not just about academically, but it’s an emotional, you feel like a failure. I can’t do it. So you sit out, you stop out. Yeah, you may come back to school, but who knows? Or you may not. And so I really think that there’s a major problem. What’s going on in the high schools and the middle schools of not only educating students, but educating the parents about what are the skill sets are needed? What are the real interests that people have and exploring those early on and also being honest and having real knowledge. If a parent doesn’t really understand what’s available, how can they help their child? If they only know nurse, if they only know pharmacy, if they only know attorney, that’s what you’re going to select. But what if that’s not what they want to do? I don’t know. Too many kids have sat in my office and told me I’m only majoring in business because my father said I need to do that. Well, a lot of kids can get through, but most kids can’t. And after second year, your dad’s not taking that accounting test you are. And so it’s something, I think, that some of the workshops I provide in the center, some of the research I’ve done, I think can be helpful to middle school kids as well as high school kids. So we’ll see. I talked to the learning the curriculum director at Cleveland Heights, University Heights main library. She has interest. So we’re going to do a first set of workshops and see where it goes from there. If there’s any interest,
Justin Hons [00:49:48] Could you tell us about your current job here at CSU?
Ann Nelson [00:49:51] Currently, I am the coordinator of the Focus Center, which is an academic resource center to help college students adjust to college life. Our primary target audience are freshman and sophomore student. However, it is open to everyone. Our workshops run from September to December and then from January to May. Workshops are an hour titles from test taking to time management to what can you do with a pharmacy degree? What can you do with a history degree? What can you do with a communication degree? Those particular workshops have been very, very informative, and students have really been attracted to those workshops because my intent is to bring in professionals from the outside area so students not only understand, okay, we have someone from the communication college here to talk about the various programs and disciplines, but someone out there in the real world to tell students about those soft skills. And that’s my way of trying to get students to become engaged and entranced in academic studies and how they relate to the real world. So I talked to you about time management regarding history 101, but how does it help you when you’re in the real world? So when I have professionals come in and tell students, oh, you want to be a forensic science and work with the local coroner? Because that’s the hot. Because of CSI, do you know you need strong writing skills? All the students, I’ll never forget that workshop. They were shocked because they thought her first words were going to be biology, chemistry. She said, no. If you can’t write in detailed format for the general population what you have been able to uncover, how can you prove anything in a court of law or to talk to anyone about it? So you need to be able to write. So hopefully that will get the kid to become a little bit more excited about developing their english skills and not just zoning out on English because they’re tapped into only biology, you know, the chemistry. And that’s really been an interesting feature that students get a chance to talk to real people who are out there working and to talk about those soft skills. You know, how to work with people. Yeah, you’re an intelligent human being with a 4.0, but you can’t get along with your coworkers. No one likes to work with you. What’s going to happen? All those types of things, people, a lot of college kids, as well as people in high school, people never really talk about that. It’s just about do well in class, and you do need to do well. But most employers really do want people who are trainable, have people skills, who can write, who can speak well, and who can critically think and do problem solving things. Those things you don’t see always on a syllabi. Those are things that are built within the classroom that if you don’t understand why we’re doing that, you kind of look over it. And so that’s kind of what we do in the focus center, as well as provide videotapes and CD-ROMs students can use on their own. And I’m always looking and researching. One of the things I’m really excited about next year. I’ve been doing a lot of research right now in higher education, there’s a major problem with sophomores, most universities who are struggling with retention and graduation problems. When you look at the statistics, you look at the sophomore student. There’s lots of freshman year programs to help students to come in and be engaged their first year, but there’s not enough programs to help students transition to the sophomore year when the curriculum becomes a little bit more intense and students start to struggle. Oh, I was going to major in business, but now I don’t know what to do, and they become lost. And so I’ve done some research, presented at a couple of regional conferences, and I’ve been given the clearance to develop a sophomore year experience for CSU. So I’m really excited about that. We’ll see if we can go with that.
Justin Hons [00:53:36] Were there any experiences that you had growing up that have really helped you in your current occupation?
Ann Nelson [00:53:45] Well, my own change. I always wanted to be a teacher. I didn’t know a teacher, and I love information. I’m an information junkie. And I said, I want to teach. I want to help others. The great thing about my school, Notre Dame, is that the first semester you had to go out into the schools, we had a class called intro to teaching. So for half a day, we went out to the schools. I realized, I want to teach, but not in this particular area. There’s teaching that goes on, but catering to the parents, the, not the substitute, the principal, all of the discipline within the classroom. I just. I didn’t see a lot of learning. I didn’t see a lot of connection, and I was really turned off, and I was like, okay, so what am I going to do if I don’t want to major in education as an information junkie, I went to career services, started researching, okay, this is what I like. I want to help people. I like education. So what’s out there for me? So in my research of spending time in the career service center, [laughs] which the director got to know me very well and started to talking and dialoguing, she turned me on to higher ed. She said, well, you know, there are other areas in education. Talked to her, talked about a plan for undergraduate, talked about, I did need a graduate degree. Some small schools will allow you to work with the undergrad, but most would like you to have a master’s degree to work in student affairs. So I created a plan so I understand what it’s like to be confused or not. Really sure of what you want to do or you get into an area and there’s a change. What do you do? Most students, again, I’m naturally curious, maybe a little nosy and like to read. So I went and researched myself. I didn’t have someone that took my hand. For a lot of kids, they just don’t do that. And so I think there’s a need. And the numbers and the statistics and the research that we’ve done prove it out is definitely something that’s a need. And because students are just not graduating. And yes, it’s about money, but it’s also about confusion and not knowing where they really want to be and how to get there.
Justin Hons [00:56:11] What do you like most about the city of Cleveland?
Ann Nelson [00:56:15] Hmm, I like that- You know, I’ve been to Chicago and New York very recently. I think the thing that I like about Cleveland is that I feel like a blend of both those cities. It’s not New York, which is just too big for me, and it’s not Chicago, which is a little too big and too busy. It’s just enough, it’s laid back enough to have the edge of a larger city. So there’s an edge. There’s, there’s a little front there of a larger city. Now, sometimes for people who come from Chicago, they’re like, well, please show me, because I don’t see it. [laughs] But for a Clevelander, there’s an edgy part. There’s the big city side there. But when I need to, because I like to pull back, I can pull back and also have that small town feel. So I think it has that blend of both that if you’re looking for that large city, you can find it. But if you need that smallness, you can also pull back and find it. And I also love that now people can choose to, I’m not a huge commuter. I love to get to work within a half an hour or less. And for me, you know, Cleveland Heights or even if I choose to move back to Cleveland, I think that the commute is really nice. I’m not into a large commute. I don’t want to take 2 hours to get to work. That’s a waste of my time in my life. So I love the commute. You know, it doesn’t seem like, and I know every year or every two years, those studies come out, and Cleveland usually have a very low rate in commuter. You know, when you look at Chicago and New York, their commute time is much higher than we have. So I do love that. Like I said, that large, small feeling. I do wish and hope that Cleveland will continue to work on their problem with bringing people together and actually living. I think we get along now, but to actually live together, I think, will allow people to then understand the differences and then be open to work on those problems, like the school district. That’s why it’s so hard to pass a levy. No one, you know, if you don’t live in the city of Cleveland, you don’t have a reason to care about the. They should. We know as educators that they should because it’s beyond just the scope of the inner city of Cleveland. We’re talking about a workforce that’s going to help you when you’re 60 or 70. But people tend to think about what’s going on right now. So that that’s something that for all of our leaders and for us as people, we need to find a way to make a connection as far as living together.
Justin Hons [00:58:41] What’s something that you feel has significantly changed since when you were younger, until today in Cleveland, either positive or negative?
Ann Nelson [00:58:53] Hmm. I think the negative would be the school districts, the school system. It’s just like I said before, I’m sure there was problems. I mean, when I was growing up is when they started the busing system. And, you know, we heard about busing and starting, but it’s just such a negative with the media, with the numbers, and I know there’s problems. It just seems so much a negative swirl around the school district, and you rarely read positive things. I remember about three months ago, I picked up a magazine at a doctor’s office, and I was just blown away about this program that Cleveland State actually, and I didn’t know about it. I feel very ignorant. I didn’t know about early college, which that is a wonderful program. It’s right here at Cleveland State’s campus. Those are some really bright, great students. You don’t hear about it. Now, I do know part of that is because we as a people, as a nation, for some reason, seem to be fixated on negative news and not positive news. It’s boring. But those kids are busting their butt. They are really bright kids. For them to feel lumped in in a school district of people who are just gang bangers, people who have low test scores, that can probably be a really major problem for them, for their motivation that people are not acknowledging them. So the negativity of our school system, something I just don’t know, has to be done to let people know that there are things that are going on that’s positive. And more importantly, to get people to have some interest to. I know business and industry are doing their part to some degree, somewhere along the line. And now that’s one of my soapboxes. You don’t want to get me started on, because I think the other problem, it’s a state issue, quite frankly. I have been thinking seriously about leaving Ohio for that very reason. I don’t think the state values education. When you look at other states, states such as North Carolina, Minnesota, they are vested in their educational system from k through twelve through higher ed, and we are not. And I think that’s a major, major problem. And of course, it trickles down to the inner city school districts in a major way. I mean, CSU, since I’ve been here, tuition has just. CSU used to be cheap when I started here. Yeah, it’s not your Case, but it’s not cheap. It’s very expensive. And it’s a major problem that this state doesn’t seem to value education.
Justin Hons [01:01:38] Do you have any last words or any particular stories about your experiences here in Cleveland that you’d like to share before we conclude?
Ann Nelson [01:01:52] I think the story that I probably would like to tell was when I was a senior in high school, and it was so, I’ll never forget the day. It was the night before I was graduating, and my mom said, we’re going to have our day. And we rolled the bus down to Euclid, and we got our hair done at May Company, and we had a nice lunch at Wendy’s, which is no longer there on east forth. I think Pickwick and Frolic is there now. And we had a nice lunch there. And then we actually walked up to East 6. And was it East 6 or was it further along? I think it was. It’s a hotel near East 9th, and I don’t think it’s there. And she took me there because in 10th grade, I actually got an award for being a bright student. And it was a really fancy banquet. And she took me there and she said, remember when we were there and you were in 10th grade and you didn’t think this day was going to come, and you didn’t think you could graduate and go to college? And she said, remember when I told you, you can do anything you want to do? And she said, just remember how you felt when you got that award for being a bright student. You’re going to be okay when you go to college in the fall. You’ll have to work hard, but you’ll be okay. Because I also, too, not only had self-esteem issues. But unfortunately, but fortunately for me, I came from a family that three of my sisters, 4.0s, never had to study, and 3.5 had to study like hell. But it’s made me a better person. So I will leave that story. I’ll never forget that time we came down the night before I graduated, because I graduated at 6:00 at night at St. Peter’s church right there on superior, because I went to Erieview Catholic. And we came down and we did that.
Justin Hons [01:03:45] Thanks a lot for your time.
Ann Nelson [01:03:47] Okay. Hopefully I wasn’t too chatty.
Justin Hons [01:03:49] Oh, that’s a good thing.
Ann Nelson [01:03:51] Okay, Emma, do you have any questions?
Justin Hons [01:03:55] That you would be interested in asking?
Ann Nelson [01:03:58] I just want to-
Justin Hons [01:04:00] When you have people in from out of town, what are some of the place you9 take them in Cleveland?
Ann Nelson [01:04:03] Okay, well, I love to- People have often, of course, when they come into town was interesting. We had a large- I was the host of a convention that came in for national academic advisors in April. Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. Please take me to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. I want to go to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. [laughs] Of course, when they find out the ticket prices, they’re a little alarmed, and I’m like, well, I’m sorry, that’s the price. However, I often do take one of my favorite restaurants. I love Star Restaurant right there on Euclid and the Playhouse area. I love Star Restaurant, so I take people there a lot, and especially in the evening before plays, they have singing and things like that, the hostess and play the piano. So I take people there. I also, too, one of my favorite spots. And again, because I’m a geek, I love libraries. I love going to different libraries, and people who want to come along with me will come. I love, you know, to see the different libraries, how they look, and it’s just a wonderful thing. But my other popular area to eat here in downtown would be, I am a Pickwick person. I love the different, you know, I love to go downstairs and hear some comedy, so I am a Pickwick person, so. And in Cleveland heights, just hanging out. People love Coventry, you know, Coventry is a people place. I don’t know if you know of it, but it is. If you just want to do people watching and just walk around. Coventry is the place to go, so. But there is one other special place that I don’t take a lot of people because they are too freaked out. But I love photography, and it’s another area that it is on Euclid, but not downtown. My mom took us very early on to a cemetery, Lake View Cemetery. And I- So she took us early and she made it comfortable that I didn’t have a fear of it. And it’s a beautiful park. It really is a beautiful place. And I have always gone throughout my life. When I started driving and taking pictures of the various ponds and the different trees, I love taking pictures of different areas in different seasons. And of course, she’s there now. I made sure that she was buried there. And I love people who are not frightened and they want to see something different. I will share Lake View with them, but of course, there’s lots of people who are frightened. [laughs] Okay.
Justin Hons [01:06:34] Thanks a lot, Ann.
Ann Nelson [01:06:35] Okay. Nice meeting.
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