Abstract
Lilian Pyles is the older sister of Marjorie Pyles-Hearst. They moved to Cleveland from Kentucky, and later on in her life Lilian moved to New York City. She moved back to Cleveland in her later adult years. In this interview she reflects on mostly pleasant experiences growing up in Glenville and attending Miles Standish, Empire Junior High, and Glenville High School. She discusses favorite places in the neighborhood, including Scatter’s Barbecue, shopping trips to downtown department stores, and venturing up East 105th Street to catch a glimpse of the Glenville riot in 1968. She discusses Leo’s Casino, including an especially memorable concert when Aretha Franklin sang all night during a snowstorm until patrons’ cars could be shoveled out.
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Interviewee
Pyles, Lilian (interviewee)
Interviewer
Gabb, Julie (interviewer)
Project
Project Team
Date
4-16-2014
Document Type
Oral History
Duration
64 minutes
Recommended Citation
"Lilian Pyles interview, 16 April 2014" (2014). Cleveland Regional Oral History Collection. Interview 999118.
https://engagedscholarship.csuohio.edu/crohc000/1044
Transcript
Julie Gabb [00:00:01] Right. We are here in Cleveland Heights, Ohio, with Lilian Pyles, and today is April 16, 2014. Could you please tell me about yourself?
Lilian Pyles [00:00:15] Born and raised? That kind of thing about myself? Okay. I was born in Springfield, Kentucky, a little town outside of Louisville, population about 1500, then and now. We moved to Cleveland when I was little. Started elementary school, Miles Standish in the Glenville area. Went to Empire Junior High School and went to Glenville Senior High School. Right now I work as a casting director and I cast features and commercials and the like. And I’ve been in the industry for maybe about 40 years, 30 years, sorry, about 30 years here in Cleveland and New York and L.A. Lived in New York for about 25 years. Moved back to Cleveland to be closer to my parents because they were getting older. So living here in Cleveland Heights and loving it, it’s nice to be back in Cleveland. All my friends who moved to New York have moved back to Cleveland, so we’re all here together again, which is great. But, yeah, the movie industry has been good here in Cleveland. There are more and more films coming here every year. I have the great opportunity to be able to do a great deal of them. Met a lot of great people. But I come from good stock, a good background and traveling. I enjoyed it. I love New York very much. It’s very crazy, very brutal, but it’s a lot of fun. So much art there, theater there, dancing there. It’s very creative city, and I love it very much.
Julie Gabb [00:02:09] Alright, so when did you move from Kentucky to Glenville?
Lilian Pyles [00:02:15] Moved from Kentucky in the kindergarten and went to kindergarten at Outhwaite, which is off of Woodland, for starting school there. And then we had to move because both my parents worked and we went back to Kentucky. The kids went back to Kentucky with my grandparents and went to school there. My parents came, came back here to look for a house. Once they found the house and we all moved. That’s when I started Miles Standish in the third grade.
Julie Gabb [00:02:54] And what was your reason for, what was your family’s reason for moving to Glenville?
Lilian Pyles [00:03:00] Well, it was a great area. It was biracial. It was a wonderful, wonderful neighborhood. You’ve heard the saying all the time, it takes a village. This was a village. All the kids that lived in that area went to those schools, those three schools, Miles Standish, Empire, and Glenville. Our teachers lived in the area. It was nothing to come home and see – the assistant principal and my dad were good friends - there was nothing to come home and see him there with my dad talking. My mother worked at the post office. My father was a social worker at that time. So Glenville area was a beautiful, beautiful area. It was no burned-out houses, no raggediness. Everybody took pride in their homes, in their yards. If a kid, somebody else’s kid got in trouble, they were corrected by any parent on the street, and they accepted that. So again, that was the village raising those kids. It was a wonderful area. It was safe. Everyone had nice homes. Everybody had pets. You know, summertime, we could stay out till the streetlights came on and we all had to be in. So there were no kids hanging around, no cars driving up and down the street all night long. It was just a wonderful, calm area.
Julie Gabb [00:04:22] And so you said that you went to Miles Standish. Can you tell me about your experience going there?
Lilian Pyles [00:04:31] Miles Standish was a great school. We had all sorts of extracurricular activities. We had dance, we had theater. We did a lot. We went on a lot of field trips. We had excellent teachers. The teachers cared about you. We had penmanship where they don’t have penmanship anymore, where they teach you how to write and teach you how to print. I think the kids teach themselves now. There are so many activities, extracurricular activities at Miles Standish that they don’t have anymore. So I was very lucky to be a part of that Miles Standish group of people. It was a good school. We walked to school every day because it was right around the corner, which made it good. That way everybody could watch you on the way to school. It was a good place to be. Very good.
Julie Gabb [00:05:29] What extracurriculars did you do at Miles Standish?
Lilian Pyles [00:05:34] Volleyball, baseball. I was a tomboy, so I played a lot of sports. I liked the dance classes. It was just very enjoyable. It was a lot of fun. It helped to acclimate you to other people, to other genres, to other styles, other cultures. And that was one good thing about the Glenville area is that all types of people lived in that area. A professional baseball player lived up the street from us. A doctor lived two doors from us. School teachers, social workers, principals, psychiatrists, homemakers. It was a variety. It was wonderful.
Julie Gabb [00:06:21] You said that you did like dance at Miles Standish? Were you involved in any plays or musicals there?
Lilian Pyles [00:06:30] I was in one play. I spoke at my graduation [laughs] from elementary school, which was a privilege. The dance was a lot of fun, and most of the dance was like cultural dancing, other ethnicities, other types, all types of music. So we were exposed to a lot of different things. We were exposed to worldly things and things that we understood. They helped us to understand that. So coming in contact with different people from all over the world, it was easy. It was fun. It was a lot of fun.
Julie Gabb [00:07:14] What was your favorite dance at the time?
Lilian Pyles [00:07:17] We used to do, like, we would do, like, the jig, and we would do, you know, that dance that they do where they click their heels a lot and dance on their toes? It comes- It’s a dance company that comes here now maybe once or twice a year. I can’t remember the culture, but that one I liked the best. And we used to square dance. You know, it sounds square, of course, but we used to do all types of dancing, so it was fun.
Julie Gabb [00:07:55] And you said that you did, like, different cultures dances as well? What were, like, some of the cultures that you’re exposed to with those dances?
Lilian Pyles [00:08:08] Wow. Um, what is- It’s a jig, and it’s- I can’t think of the country that it comes from. Kind of foggy right now with the dancing. I could see us doing it, but I can’t remember the name of it because we used to do it in the gym, and it would be groups of us, like a square dance, but I can’t remember the name or the type of dance.
Julie Gabb [00:08:45] Were you involved with the Miles Standish garden at all?
Lilian Pyles [00:08:49] No. No, I wasn’t. We had a garden at our house, so I did my garden at home, but we were able to. The garden was shared by all, whether you worked in it or not. Everybody shared in the gardens. It was fun.
Julie Gabb [00:09:07] So were you able to take home, like, vegetables and produce some back garden?
Lilian Pyles [00:09:12] Yes. Yes. Yes.
Julie Gabb [00:09:18] What did Miles Standish actually look like? I’ve always heard about, but I never actually, like, heard [inaudible].
Lilian Pyles [00:09:24] It’s still there. It’s still an elementary school. I think it’s Mike White Elementary School now. Empire is still there. Glenville has since been torn down, but Miles Standish is there. It’s a one level school. Excuse me. Has a- Has a- We called it a big side and the little side. Big side was where the older kids went, and the little side is where the baby kids went. But it’s all one level. It’s quite large. It’s next to this beautiful, open field called Farmer’s Yard, where we had garden, where they have gardens, beautiful fenced-in area, playground on both sides, a little side, and the big side. Very nice school. Very nice. And it still is. It’s all brick. And they’ve taken very good care of the school and the grounds for it to still be there. It’s in very good condition. I’m assuming it looks good anyway. [laughs]
Julie Gabb [00:10:26] So what are some activities that you did as a child in Glenville?
Lilian Pyles [00:10:30] Wow. Like I said, I was a tomboy. I used to play baseball in the playground at Empire’s playground, because you could see the playground from my house. Baseball, kickball, volleyball. Every Friday we go swimming at the Fairfax Community Center. My dad would take us. It was family night. We would all go swimming on Friday nights. It was wonderful. Whatever sport was going on, I was part of it. I really was. I love sports, and I love playing. I love being outside. And I had good friends who, we all did the same thing. So that helped ride my bike, go swimming, go hiking. It was just wonderful. It really was.
Julie Gabb [00:11:20] Did you play with the sports teams in school or also, like, neighborhood- [inaudible]
Lilian Pyles [00:11:27] CHECK!!!! You know, neighborhood games. In school I played volleyball. I played basketball one year, but it was kind of rough. Girls played a little rough. I didn’t like it. [laughs] But, you know, kickball, we played that every day, all the time in the schoolyard, which was a lot of fun. Yeah. So it was all sports that I liked.
Julie Gabb [00:11:54] Was it like coed play?
Lilian Pyles [00:11:56] Yes, coed play. Always co ed. Always.
Julie Gabb [00:12:01] You said that you grew up on Empire?
Lilian Pyles [00:12:05] Glenville.
Julie Gabb [00:12:06] Okay.
Lilian Pyles [00:12:06] I mean, Columbia Avenue was the street. Empire was one street over where Empire Junior High School was. It still is, but it’s no longer a junior high school. I think it’s a- I forget what kind of school it is, but they teach different skills. You know, it’s no longer a regular curriculum for school. It’s a special skills school, but it’s still there.
Julie Gabb [00:12:35] And how was your experiences at Empire Junior High?
Lilian Pyles [00:12:40] Empire Junior High was a growing up time for me. Going from elementary school and the elementary school, Miles Standish, was overcrowded. So when I was in the 6th grade, instead of being at the elementary school, we had our 6th grade classes at Empire, at the junior high school, because Miles Standish was overcrowded. So I went to the junior high school in the 6th grade. That was quite an experience because I was an elementary school young lady, and I, you know, this was a different part of my life that I was transitioning to. That was a growing period for me. You know, it was a transition period. I transitioned into being a young lady and doing more of my work and reading more. I began to read more and more books. And my dad was a schoolteacher when we were little in Kentucky, and then he became a social worker here in Cleveland, and he always encouraged education. He always encouraged us to read. And when I was little, I can remember, you know, if I was being punished, he’d make me read a book or make me read something and give him a report. He never raised his voice. He never put his hands on us. He was a gentle soul, always, but he always encouraged us to read. And education, he always pushed the education. He had his masters from Case Western Reserve, and he was an adjunct professor there and a field advisor. So he always encouraged us to read and further our education. So I had to get good grades. I didn’t do good in spelling in elementary school, but in junior high school, I did much better because I began to read more, but my spelling was horrible in elementary, but it got better.
Julie Gabb [00:14:43] Were, like, the junior high school, like smaller, like in class size compared to Miles Standish?
Lilian Pyles [00:14:49] Yes, not real, not too much smaller. And Miles Standish, maybe 20 kids in a class, I’m just assuming. And then junior high school, they didn’t get much bigger, um, high school either. You know, we had reasonably amount of kids in our classes. It wasn’t like 40 kids in a class. We had nice sized classes because we had plenty good teachers. Teaching should be and was then a very honorable position. It was a very important position because you held the life of so many young people in your hands. You had to teach them and you had to guide them, and you had to show them the way. Not only did you teach them how to read and write, you had to teach them how to act, how to present themselves. I mean, I know you learned that at home, but you also learned that in school. So the classes were pretty reasonable, the size.
Julie Gabb [00:16:01] With like the elementary school, junior high school. I heard that, like, it splits off in some way. Do you know?
Lilian Pyles [00:16:07] What do you mean split off?
Julie Gabb [00:16:08] As in, like, there was like many people, from my understanding, that went to Miles Standish, and then there were like multiple junior high schools, and then they all met up together at Glenville High School.
Lilian Pyles [00:16:20] Yes, it just depends on where you live. But the majority of the people I went to Miles Standish with, 99% of them in Miles Standish went to empire because they were neighborhood schools. They were like within for us on Columbia, Miles Standish was two blocks south and Empire was two blocks west. And they were just all right there in a big circle. So the majority of the kids went from one school to the other to the other. And then when they got to Glenville, some went to private high schools, some went to Collinwood. It depended on their curriculum, but most of us stayed together. All my friends, my close friends that I went to school with, that I was in class with, we went to elementary school, junior high, and high school. Together. College is where we branched out. But some of my good friends, we’re still good friends and we went to Miles Standish. I met him in the third or fourth grade, and we’ve been friends ever since.
Julie Gabb [00:17:40] Sorry. So, going to Glenville High School, were you able to be at the old Glenville at all?
Lilian Pyles [00:17:54] Yes, that’s where I graduated from, the old Glenville.
Julie Gabb [00:17:58] Versus- So you never actually experienced new Glenville High School?
Lilian Pyles [00:18:01] No. No.
Julie Gabb [00:18:01] Okay, can you tell me, like, what the old Glenville High School looked like?
Lilian Pyles [00:18:10] It was about two or three floors, all red brick. Big, beautiful windows. White frame windows. Floors squeaked. Big gyms. Just a lot of fun. It was an old school, but we rocked and rolled there. The teachers were excellent. We had a dress code. At Glenville High School, we never wore jeans to school. We never wore- Girls wore skirts and dresses. Guys wore slacks. They never wore jeans. We may have had a dress-down day once a month where you could wear jeans. The boys would wear jeans. No sneakers. They wore shoes. We wore shoes to school. We didn’t wear tennis shoes. We had extracurricular activities. We had gym where you changed into a gym suit and when gym was over, you took a shower and got dressed and went to class. Now they don’t. We just had so many extracurricular activities. Student council. I was in student council. I was a gym leader. I was a cheerleader. I was in different, other different clubs. We were in school all day long. You know, you go to school in the morning and you’re there all day long and you learned something. And you had a certain grade that you had to abide by. And we had detention and we had after-school classes, and we had. Teachers took time to individually teach you if you needed it. It was a wonderful place. It really was. And they don’t have it anymore. And the kids are being deprived of that. And that’s unfortunate because that helped to build your character. It did. You have relationships with your teachers. The teachers dressed every day. You know, the male teachers wore suits and ties, and the female teachers wore dresses and they wore suits and they dressed nice. They didn’t dress like the kids. We had to uphold so many rules and regulations just that governed ourselves. Not so much our work in the school, but our character. And that helped build our character.
Julie Gabb [00:20:46] So what were, like, some of what could you think of as, like, what was like the strictest rules, I guess, compared to now, comparatively?
Lilian Pyles [00:20:57] Dress? You couldn’t wear short skirts. They couldn’t be too short. You had to be neat and clean. Every day. I remember once I wore a skirt, and it was too short, and I knew it, and I don’t know why I did it, but I did it. And I’m in the hallway and I shouldn’t have been. I should have been in my class. And the assistant principal saw me, took me to the office and said- She was going to send me home to change my clothes, and she was going to call my mother to let her know I was coming home. But I asked her not to call my mother because my mother worked at night at the post office, and she was asleep during the day. And I asked her, please don’t call her. Just, I’ll go home, change some clothes and come back. She called. Her mother didn’t like it. I got in trouble, of course, but not so much for the short skirt, but the fact that she called him woke her up. But the dress code, they were really, really, really serious about that. And the kids loved looking good. They loved dressing every day. It was enjoyable. It really was, you know, again, it helped build character. It helped expose us to- You know, we grew up with the saying, when in Rome, do as the Romans do. So, you know, when you’re in certain environments, you dress a certain way. Now, the kids wear the same thing all the time. The boys don’t wear their own suits. They don’t have button-down shirts. Girls don’t have decent length skirts or good, you know, nice shoes. It’s all about the tennis shoe, the sneakers, the Jordans, the jeans, the baggies, the halter tops. It’s all about that, that we dressed like that when it was appropriate, but in school, it was never appropriate, so. And you could be physically punished. You could get your hands swatted. You could get your bottom swatted, the boys, if you were bad. But when they took the physical discipline out of the schools, that’s when we lost the kids, because now they’re not afraid of anything. And we, you have to have a little fright in order to bring you into reality. You can’t, you know, kids can’t rule the world. They can’t run it because they’re not mentally able. We were taught to respect people, to respect our elders, to respect our teachers, to respect our neighbors, to respect our friends. We were taught respect, and that’s just not in it anymore. They just don’t- They just don’t have it. And it’s really frightening for the kids because it’s hard on them trying to grow up. It’s very difficult.
Julie Gabb [00:23:42] Were there any teachers that stood out in your mind that, like, influenced you in any way?
Lilian Pyles [00:23:47] Oh, yeah. Oh, absolutely. There were a number of teachers, but the main teacher, her name was Gwendolyn Willis, and she was a biology teacher. And when I first went there, I really wasn’t that good in biology, but I became her helper. You know, I’d help her after class and she would help me. And I began to love biology and I did well in it. But she was- She influenced me in so many ways. She was so classy and very smart and just worldly and kind and soft-spoken and- Yeah, she was big influence. I mean, she was. Mister Clayton, who was our assistant principal, was a big influence. He was a good friend of my father’s. He was a gentleman at all times. And he was always clean and he always had a suit and tie on. And he was always gentle. And he was very tall, very big. Not fat, but just very tall. So he carried a present and everybody respected him and loved him for that. Yeah, he was a cool guy.
Julie Gabb [00:25:01] What were some things at Glenville High School that you think set apart Glenville High School from other schools?
Lilian Pyles [00:25:10] The love we had for one another, the respect we had for our student body, the respect that we had for our teachers. We knew our teachers well. They exposed us to so many different things outside of the school. Field trips, concerts. You know, they would take us places. They would talk to us about different things, worldly things. Glenville was great. It really was. It was a pleasure. We didn’t have a security gate to come in. You didn’t have to be searched. Nobody had- None of that existed in our school. None of it.
Julie Gabb [00:25:57] Were you at, were you present for when MLK or Malcolm X came to Glenville at all?
Lilian Pyles [00:26:05] No, I wasn’t there. No, not at all.
Julie Gabb [00:26:12] You said earlier you were a cheerleader. Were there any memorable games that you cheered for that stood out in your mind?
Lilian Pyles [00:26:20] You know, I can’t pinpoint any one game, but cheerleading was the highlight of my life. We had a ball. We loved it. We had fun. Even cheering at the football games in the snow. We were- We were a close-knit group. We loved what we did. And Mrs. Mitchell, who was head of the cheerleaders, would do things like take us places, have a pajama party at our house with all the cheerleaders. I don’t know how she did it, because we stayed up all night talking, but it was such a pleasant trip for us. Cheering was awesome. It really was. You got a lot of respect. You had a lot of fun. And it helped. It really helped in school. It helped with your schoolwork, it just helped in so many ways.
Julie Gabb [00:27:23] How did- Was, I guess, how did Glenville influence your career choice?
Lilian Pyles [00:27:31] Well, I- When I was going to Glenville, going to the school, you mean? How did it? I wanted to move to New York. I always knew that I wanted to be in some kind of entertainment genre. I knew that that influenced me to get more education, to go to college, to want to do better, to want to be bigger, to want to go farther, you know, to want to learn more. That helped me. Our teachers encouraged us to go to college or get a good job. They encouraged us to be smart, to learn, and to use that in our lives. They helped us with that a great deal. They helped us to go to college. They helped us to look for schools that we wanted to go to. They helped us make decisions that were really vital in our lives at that time. They took time with us as individuals, not as a group, but individually. They took time to do that for us.
Julie Gabb [00:28:44] What does, sorry to get off topic, but what does a Tarblooder mean?
Lilian Pyles [00:28:50] Tarblooder is a- He’s a robot. He was a robot, and he couldn’t be beaten. He was tough. So that’s- [laughs] That’s why. And over the years, the Tarblooder look has changed. But he’s always been a robot. Yeah, he was bad. He was big and bad.
Julie Gabb [00:29:14] Did you guys have, like, a mascot costume at all forever?
Lilian Pyles [00:29:17] No, we didn’t. Do we have a mascot? I don’t remember having a mascot. I don’t.
Julie Gabb [00:29:28] What were some of the places that you frequented businesswise, in Glenville?
Lilian Pyles [00:29:36] What do you mean?
Julie Gabb [00:29:37] What were some of the businesses that you went to for, like, going shopping?
Lilian Pyles [00:29:43] Oh, okay. Downtown was flourishing then. All the department stores were downtown. The nice restaurants. I mean, there were restaurants in different neighborhoods, but downtown was the focal point of Cleveland then. People dressed to go downtown. A mother wore gloves and a hat and gorgeous outfits, and so did all the other ladies. They dressed according to where they were going. It was a pleasure and fun, but downtown was happening. Now it’s coming back. You know, there’s so many malls and different things in different areas now. But then downtown was the focal point of everything.
Julie Gabb [00:30:27] So where would you go in downtown?
Lilian Pyles [00:30:30] Like Higbee’s, Halle’s, Sterling Lindner Davis, Bonwit Teller. All the good stores, favorite stores. There were several restaurants. I can’t. There was the Forum, which. The building is still there, I think it’s on 9th and Euclid. It’s an office building now, but it was a very nice place to eat. And there were different restaurants downtown, but, yeah. Higbee’s, and Halle’s, Sterling’s, Bonwit Tellers. It was my favorite store.
Julie Gabb [00:31:01] How often would you go downtown?
Lilian Pyles [00:31:06] Maybe once a week, something like that. Yeah.
Julie Gabb [00:31:12] Did you go to any places to eat in Glenville at all?
Lilian Pyles [00:31:17] Well, in Glenville, 105th Street was rocking and rolling then. Scatter’s, Perkle’s Deli had the best corned beef in town. Best milkshake. Scatter’s had the best barbecue. There were several other clubs on the 105th, but we were all too young to go to those when we lived over there.
Julie Gabb [00:31:44] Did your parents go at all to them?
Lilian Pyles [00:31:46] Some of them, yes. Mm hmm.
Julie Gabb [00:31:49] Do you remember which ones, I guess?
Lilian Pyles [00:31:50] I think Tia Juana was one. My, the jazz. Oh, boy. It was a jazz club in Glenville area that my mother would take me and my brother to, and we weren’t old enough to be in there, but she would take us anyway, and she would just tell us just to sit there and be quiet, because if you talk, then they’ll know your age. But we would see people like Dinah Washington. Oh, my God. So many great jazz musicians used to come there. And there was a place called Leo’s Casino that we used to go to on Euclid Avenue. And that was the Motown era, where all the Motown groups would come to Leo’s Casino and perform. And if you were underage, they would give you a lei to wear around your neck when you came in the door so that they wouldn’t serve you drinks. But we would go in the bathroom and take the leis off [laughs], but we wouldn’t get drunk or anything, but, you know, we’d have little foo foo drinks. They didn’t have anything in them, but Leo’s was the best. Every artist from Motown that you could imagine was there, and we saw them, everyone. You know, Aretha Franklin, Richard Pryor. Oh, my God. The Temptations, the oJs, just- It’s an endless list. And that was truly wonderful.
Julie Gabb [00:33:28] What was the most notable performance like you?
Lilian Pyles [00:33:32] Oh, my God. Once we went to see Aretha Franklin and Lou Rawls opened up for her and I think, was it Richard Pryor? I can’t remember, but I know Aretha Franklin. And it was a snowstorm that night. We didn’t know it until the show was over. We’re getting ready to leave. We can’t get out the door because there’s so much snow. So she brought us back in and performed all night long until they could shovel us out. Sure did. They performed all night long. Yep. Absolutely. That was the highlight. It truly, truly was. Yeah. She sang all night long. She sat at that piano and played and sang. She entertained us. It was wonderful. She didn’t have to do that. She could have gone the dressing room and went to sleep. She sat at that piano and sang all night long. And as you come in Leo’s, the first room was the bar, and in the middle of the bar was a stage, and the O’Jays were like the local group that performed there every week, so they were always there. And then you go into another room was a bigger room, and it’s a big stage and tables and chairs, and that was the second room where they had different performers every week. But Leo’s Casino is nothing like it ever. It’s a wonderful place.
Julie Gabb [00:35:00] How is Richard Pryor?
Lilian Pyles [00:35:02] Oh, my God, he was so funny. He was just- He was the best he has thus far. To this day. He is still the best comedian ever. Just- He could say two words and they. When you’re hysterical. He was wonderful. He was. He was funny and he was wonderful. And he talked about things that you related to, kind of people he related to. He had all these different characters that he performed, and he was just entertaining. He was wonderful.
Julie Gabb [00:35:35] You mentioned earlier about Perkle’s, and you said they had, like, the best corned beef. Like, what made that stand out sandwich?
Lilian Pyles [00:35:45] You know what? I don’t know what made us. It was delicious. And I’m a vegetarian now, but I wasn’t then. And on Saturday, my mother would go to Perkle’s and buy us slab corned beef and bring it home, and she would get a loaf of rye bread to go with it, and the mustard, and she would get that on the weekend, and we would. And she’d put it on the stove and we’d just make sandwiches until we blew up. But they had the best corned beef. [laughs] It was delicious. It was. And it was a nice place. The people were courteous, and the service was good. The food was excellent. They had the best milkshakes. Oh, my goodness. So Perkle’s was the number one corned beef place in Cleveland at that time.
Julie Gabb [00:36:33] Also about Scatter’s. Did you know Scatter at all?
Lilian Pyles [00:36:40] Yes, everybody did. Everybody in the neighborhood did, because he was always there. He was always around. You know, he was a big man in town. He had the best barbecue. I used to get a shoulder sandwich [laughs] and French fries, and they used to have these big vats that they cooked the french fries in, and they were- That was awesome. It was the best barbecue ever.
Julie Gabb [00:37:04] Did you go to any of - I heard Scatter had, like, birthday parties every year - did you ever go to any one of those?
Lilian Pyles [00:37:11] No, I wasn’t old enough to go to his parties. I just used to go to his restaurant. That was good enough. I didn’t care about a party. I just wanted those ribs. Yeah, but he was. He was a man about town. He was. He was very nice. You know, he was into a lot of things, I’m sure. But the thing that I knew him best for is for his barbecue.
Julie Gabb [00:37:41] Did you go to church at all?
Lilian Pyles [00:37:43] Yes. Mm hmm. We went to St. Philip Neri on St. Clair. We went there for years. When we first moved to Cleveland, we went to St. Edward’s on Woodland, and then when we moved to the Glenville area, we went to St. Philip Neri Catholic Church.
Julie Gabb [00:38:03] And are there any, like, memories of St. Phillip’s at all?
Lilian Pyles [00:38:09] You know, church was just a calm time. It was very pleasant and very calming and very relaxing. I didn’t understand a lot of it because the mass was always in Latin, and when they changed it to English, I was so glad. I said, now I know what they’re saying. But I appreciated the calmness that it brought to my life during that time.
Julie Gabb [00:38:41] Something different. But were you present at all during the Glenville riots?
Lilian Pyles [00:38:48] Yes. Yeah. Yeah, I was present. And we went up to 105th, and we heard about all the ruckus and stuff. Like idiots, we got in the car and drove up to 105th, and it was pretty bad. It was, you know, that we saw a lot of the army and their jeeps driving around with their guns, and we didn’t stay too long. We weren’t in it. It was just a few blocks from us. But, I mean, we were in the neighborhood, so we stayed in pretty much. But one day we snuck up there to see what was going on, and it wasn’t pretty. And then we came back home, but we didn’t take part in it. We didn’t do anything in it. We just saw it. And then we went home. [laughs] We got away from it, but, yeah, which was unfortunate.
Julie Gabb [00:39:44] How were you present at all for the Hough riots?
Lilian Pyles [00:39:49] When were the Hough riots? In the sixties?
Julie Gabb [00:39:55] Yeah.
Lilian Pyles [00:39:56] Yeah. Well, yes, I was here, but, no, I didn’t. I didn’t go to Hough for any reason at all during that time, for the riot or anything. I wasn’t interested in, you know, I wasn’t that eager to see fighting or burning or any of that. I couldn’t relate to it anyway.
Julie Gabb [00:40:17] You said earlier that you
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