Abstract

Kathy Oberst Ledger was born in New York and moved as a child to the Detroit Shoreway neighborhood. Ledger recalls when Detroit Shoreway. After getting married she moved to the Clark-Fulton neighborhood, which she recalls had a large Appalachian population mostly from West Virginia. She recalls that many Spanish-speaking residents moved to Clark-Fulton from Tremont. She discusses taking over Judy's White Oaks, a bar her parents ran, and turning it into a nightclub called Diamond Dill's Tropical Lounge in the late 1980s. She contrasts its cosmopolitan clientele from its predecessor's mostly Appalachian white patronage and believes that neighbors' hostility toward this diversity led to the city forcing the club's closure and demolition just two years later after she refused to install a steel beam that an inspector claimed was needed. Ledger has been actively trying to revitalize her community through her own initiatives, working closely with Metro West Community Development Organization, and applying for grants from Neighborhood Connections. Most of her efforts have been geared toward community gardening and positioning the neighborhood as an "International Village."

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Interviewee

Oberst Ledger, Kathy (interviewee)

Interviewer

Nemeth, Sarah (interviewer)

Project

Metro West

Date

7-10-2017

Document Type

Oral History

Duration

54 minutes

Transcript

Sarah Nemeth [00:00:01] Hi, my name is Sarah Nemeth. Today is July-

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:00:06] Seventh.

Sarah Nemeth [00:00:07] Today’s the seventh? The tenth.

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:00:09] Tenth.

Sarah Nemeth [00:00:10] July 10, 2017. We are here at Kathy Oberst’s house in the Clark-Fulton neighborhood on West 48th Street. This is for the Cleveland Regional Oral History Project. And could you please state your name for the record?

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:00:27] Kathleen Oberst Ledger.

Sarah Nemeth [00:00:31] Thank you. And where were you born?

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:00:34] I was born New York, Manhattan.

Sarah Nemeth [00:00:37] Wow.

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:00:38] Yeah. Bellevue Hospital.

Sarah Nemeth [00:00:42] When was that?

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:00:43] 1947.

Sarah Nemeth [00:00:47] How long did you live there?

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:00:49] Only five years.

Sarah Nemeth [00:00:50] Do you have any memory from there?

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:00:52] Well, yeah, was going back and forth during the years, back and forth to New York.

Sarah Nemeth [00:00:57] Oh, you continued to keep going back?

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:01:00] Yeah, my family’s over in New York.

Sarah Nemeth [00:01:02] Okay, awesome. And where did- Did you move to Cleveland?

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:01:09] We moved to Cleveland on West 57th and Detroit Avenue. I went to Our Lady of Mount Carmel School, which is on Detroit.

Sarah Nemeth [00:01:20] Do you have any ethnic background?

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:01:23] Italian and Spanish.

Sarah Nemeth [00:01:28] And at Mount Carmel?

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:01:30] Mm hmm.

Sarah Nemeth [00:01:32] What was that like?

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:01:35] The nuns were really good. I mean, I went to Catholic school all my life, more or less, so. Then I made my communion over there. So it was all Italian neighborhood.

Sarah Nemeth [00:01:50] This whole area was Italian?

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:01:52] No, on Detroit.

Sarah Nemeth [00:01:53] Okay, Detroit Shoreway area.

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:01:56] Yeah.

Sarah Nemeth [00:01:59] All Italian. And were there bakeries and any restaurants?

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:02:02] Oh, yeah.

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:02:02] There was Fiocca and [Isabella]. That was the main bakeries that was over there was 69th, which West 69th is still Italians. That’s where we lived. We went down on West 69th. That’s where Matt Zone lives, the councilman. So, yeah, it’s old neighborhood.

Sarah Nemeth [00:02:30] Do you remember what your house looked like?

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:02:32] Yeah, I do. And believe it or not, the house is no longer standing there.

Sarah Nemeth [00:02:37] Oh, really?

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:02:38] Yeah, they got rid of it. But every time I go down there, you can’t get rid of memories.

Sarah Nemeth [00:02:45] Right. What did it look like?

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:02:47] Believe it or not, when you go down that street, it looks like an old western town because it’s so narrow. [laughs] And my dad used to always call it a western town, but it was older homes. Now they have it all fixed up because it’s Detroit Shoreway. But still, don’t get rid of the memories.

Sarah Nemeth [00:03:08] Right. Was there in your community maybe a landmark that something that you thought of in Detroit Shoreway that you-

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:03:21] Well, they got rid of Isabella the bakery and Fiocca’s. So the main thing that is our Lady of Mount Carmel. I mean, and you go to the feast every year, so-

Sarah Nemeth [00:03:40] the feast?

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:03:41] Oh, yeah.

Sarah Nemeth [00:03:42] What was the feast?

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:03:43] The Lady of Mount Carmel has a feast, like, you know, St. Rocco’s and all the other churches. And you go there, you get your Italian foods, and, yeah, everybody gets along with everybody. [laughs]

Sarah Nemeth [00:04:04] Where did people work in the community?

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:04:08] There was a lot of regular, like, little shops and stuff like that. A lot of ’em were in factories back in the day, they got rid of all the factories, all the stuff. Mainly on Detroit now is all different bars. And you name the bars, they got the bars. Back in the day, there was only maybe about eight bars.

Sarah Nemeth [00:04:35] That’s quite a difference.

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:04:37] Yeah.

Sarah Nemeth [00:04:39] And do you know any of the factories that people worked at?

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:04:44] No. No, not really, because I was too young at the time and didn’t really care. [laughs]

Sarah Nemeth [00:04:52] What were you doing for fun?

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:04:56] Kids back in the day, they didn’t do too much of anything. They’re not like today’s kids. You were under the parents’ thumb.

Sarah Nemeth [00:05:06] So they were constantly watching you.

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:05:08] Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:05:09] And if they weren’t watching you, the neighbors were. Neighbors didn’t hesitate to grab you by your ear and bring you back home to your mother and father. Today, you can’t talk to these kids. You can’t. Nothing. Kids have no respect for nothing today. Back in the day, you didn’t think of even saying half of the stuff that’s being said today. So times change.

Sarah Nemeth [00:05:38] Yeah. Definitely a yes, ma’am, no, ma’am type of atmosphere. So it definitely was a community sense.

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:05:47] Oh, yeah.

Sarah Nemeth [00:05:47] Everyone knew everybody.

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:05:49] All of ’em. Everybody.

Sarah Nemeth [00:05:52] Back in the day, did you notice that change?

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:05:54] Very much so. Very much so. Most of the time, you don’t know your next-door neighbor because everybody’s got their nose up in the air. Somebody thinks they’re better than the other person, and then it’s a difference in the way they were raised. If you weren’t raised old school-.

Sarah Nemeth [00:06:16] There’s no helping it.

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:06:17] I really feel sorry for the younger generation today. I would not want to raise no kids today. None. I feel sorry for them, really, because they don’t- Their parents never taught them. There might be a handful that was taught. Other than that, they were not taught.

Sarah Nemeth [00:06:42] When, for example, if you got in trouble or something, what might be something that you got in trouble for in that neighborhood?

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:06:51] Now, today?

Sarah Nemeth [00:06:52] No. Then when you were young. Oh, you were in Detroit Shoreway.

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:06:57] Probably being out after hours.

Sarah Nemeth [00:07:02] Was it when the street lights went on?

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:07:04] Yeah, we had to be in by that time the street lights went on.

Sarah Nemeth [00:07:08] Yep.

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:07:08] There was no being outside, so the streetlights came on, and you were not at home yet you got in trouble. Mm hmm.

Sarah Nemeth [00:07:17] Were there a lot of cars around in that neighborhood?

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:07:20] Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. There was no problem with the vehicles and people driving. There was quite a bit of action. But if you needed to go to the store, next-door neighbor didn’t hesitate to say, well, come on, we’ll take you to the store. Today you could have your tongue hanging on the floor. They won’t take you to the store. [laughs]

Sarah Nemeth [00:07:46] Very true. Do you remember when I-90 and 71 were put in? It’s like 1960- Late 1960s, early ’70s.

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:08:02] I was married by then.

Sarah Nemeth [00:08:03] You were married by then?

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:08:06] Yeah.

Sarah Nemeth [00:08:07] How old were you when you got married?

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:08:09] Just turning 18. You know, you think you know everything.

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:08:15] Yeah.

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:08:16] You’re getting away from mom, dad. You don’t have to listen. You’re not under their thumb no more. I’m gonna get married. Mm hmm.

Sarah Nemeth [00:08:25] Did you meet him from the neighborhood?

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:08:27] No, no, he was not from the neighborhood. We moved over from Detroit. We moved over here on Fulton, another Italian neighborhood.

Sarah Nemeth [00:08:38] Fulton was Italian?

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:08:39] Yes. St. Rocco’s.

Sarah Nemeth [00:08:42] Okay.

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:08:43] And, no, I didn’t meet him over there. Actually, he was a friend of my boyfriend at the time. [laughs]

Sarah Nemeth [00:08:52] Interesting how those things work out.

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:08:53] Mm hmm. Yeah, it sure is.

Sarah Nemeth [00:08:55] Where did you go to high school?

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:08:58] I went to St. Michael’s High School, and then, like I said, I was just turning 18, decided, well, I knew everything. So I quit school, and I wound up going to beautician school.

Sarah Nemeth [00:09:15] Where’d you go to beautician school?

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:09:17] Down on East 4th and Prospect. It was Ohio City Beauty School.

Sarah Nemeth [00:09:25] Were there a lot of people there?

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:09:27] Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

Sarah Nemeth [00:09:28] Were any men?

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:09:29] Oh, yeah.

Sarah Nemeth [00:09:30] There were?

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:09:31] Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

Sarah Nemeth [00:09:32] What year was this?

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:09:36] We’re talking back, oh, I don’t know exactly what year, but you figure I got married in ’66, so it had to be, like, in, I want to say maybe ’64, around there.

Sarah Nemeth [00:09:53] Okay. And that’s surprising that there- So there was a barber section?

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:09:59] No, no.

Sarah Nemeth [00:10:00] Were men doing ladies’ hair?

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:10:02] Yes.

Sarah Nemeth [00:10:03] Did they get any, like-

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:10:05] No, nobody looked at everybody crazy like- And didn’t mean that you were gay because you were doing the woman’s hair. No.

Sarah Nemeth [00:10:13] It was all kosher. Everything was fine.

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:10:15] Everything was fine. In fact, we had a lot of good times there because of it, because you were able to talk and converse and if you want to get technical, a man does a woman’s hair a whole lot better than a woman does a woman’s hair.

Sarah Nemeth [00:10:34] It is true.

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:10:35] It is.

Sarah Nemeth [00:10:39] So you moved to Fulton area?

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:10:42] Mm hmm.

Sarah Nemeth [00:10:43] And it was predominantly Italian.

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:10:45] Mm hmm.

Sarah Nemeth [00:10:46] What was like coming in further, was it Italian?

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:10:52] Here? [SN: Yeah.] No, it wasn’t. That’s why I named this place International Village. It’s got every nationality in this area.

Sarah Nemeth [00:11:03] Has it always had that, or was that a more recent development?

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:11:07] It’s more recent that it’s international. Back in the day, this area was more. We call it the good old boys area, you know, from down south, West Virginia. All that was in this area.

Sarah Nemeth [00:11:24] Okay. So a lot of Appalachians, Appalachian people, did they have, like, farm animals? I know that you guys have some over there [laughs], some chickens was there. Did they bring their-

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:11:40] No, no, no, they did not. Now, the house next door to me before I moved in this area, that used to be a dairy farm.

Sarah Nemeth [00:11:51] Really?

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:11:51] Yeah.

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:11:54] No, he had. Joe had cows right here on West 48th. This was a dairy. This was- This was all. Hmm. Next door over on this side, they had a machine shop in the back, and we’re talking about years and years and years ago. So this mainly was, like I said, all the good old boys area. They did a lot of hunting and stuff like that. And not so much animals. No, I’m the animal person.

Sarah Nemeth [00:12:33] I do love animals, too. All the times that I’ve come here, I’m so excited because I love cats.

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:12:39] Mm hmm.

Sarah Nemeth [00:12:40] And they all just swarm me. It’s fun. So it’s Appalachian. I was told that there is a big Spanish population [crosstalk], Spanish-speaking, was there at all?

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:12:56] Not as much over here as it was- Let’s see here. This is 48. No, they didn’t have it over here, it’s more towards, like, Lincoln Park.

Sarah Nemeth [00:13:11] Okay.

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:13:12] Down that area, the South Side-

Sarah Nemeth [00:13:15] Okay.

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:13:16] Was more Spanish. They start moving their way up.

Sarah Nemeth [00:13:20] Right. Do you think that as people maybe got more money or they started moving up in class, that they started moving up this way?

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:13:31] Well, what I believe it was was that the Spanish just decided, you know, they were tired of being down there. South Side didn’t have that pretty of homes back in the day, and they started coming up this direction to get a nicer home and for their family and stuff like that. Same thing with the people on the east side. They all start moving to the west side. Back in the day, they didn’t come over the bridge.

Sarah Nemeth [00:14:05] Really?

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:14:06] The bridge was the limit. The east side stayed on east, and the west stayed on the west. Then all of a sudden, they started intermingling.

Sarah Nemeth [00:14:15] So would you say that the east side was predominantly African American?

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:14:19] Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

Sarah Nemeth [00:14:21] And so was this area- [KOL: All White.] -and they didn’t want to embrace any sort of diversity?

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:14:30] Well, no. The best thing I could say is my husband is African American, and he was the only Black that walked Clark Avenue and was able to go into the bars. And that is only because he used to wear bib overalls and have a chew in his mouth. He fit right on in. But he’s a taxidermist. So all your good old boys go hunting and fishing and stuff would bring their stuff to him.

Sarah Nemeth [00:15:00] So he was able, they appreciated him.

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:15:03] Because he lived in their cultures. And plus he’s got blue eyes. Where you see Black with blue eyes? [laughs]

Sarah Nemeth [00:15:14] Did you ever hear of Little Cuba? Like that area, the Isle of Cuba, Clark and 47th?

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:15:23] That’s right over here.

Sarah Nemeth [00:15:25] Did you ever hear it called anything like that?

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:15:27] No, no.

Sarah Nemeth [00:15:29] What about the Joseph Vest Company?

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:15:34] That was where, down on 53rd, I think? Or is it the one on 25th?

Sarah Nemeth [00:15:42] 25th.

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:15:43] 25Th. That’s where they did the sweaters.

Sarah Nemeth [00:15:46] Yeah, it was like, and Hug0.

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:15:48] Yeah, yeah, yeah. Hugo Boss, though, was down here on 53rd.

Sarah Nemeth [00:15:54] Oh, really?

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:15:55] Yeah.

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:15:55] Where they, they tore everything down now, and they’re gonna be building all brand-new condos.

Sarah Nemeth [00:16:02] Condos are going in right here.

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:16:04] Oh, yes.

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:16:05] I’m 53rd. Mm hmm.

Sarah Nemeth [00:16:07] Are they going to be like high real estate condos?

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:16:11] Mm hmm.

Sarah Nemeth [00:16:12] Does that frighten you about maybe an imposing, changing this neighbor-?

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:16:20] No, no, not really, because this neighborhood needs a change. It really does. You got people that really, I hate to say it, but some slum people that need to, once the condos start coming in and different class people start coming in, will chase the other ones further on out.

Sarah Nemeth [00:16:43] Mm hmm.

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:16:44] Yeah.

Sarah Nemeth [00:16:45] This is the next place to make a change and a boom, I think.

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:16:49] Yeah.

Sarah Nemeth [00:16:50] Like Detroit Shoreway had their time.

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:16:52] Ohio City, everybody had their own.

Sarah Nemeth [00:16:54] Tremont. It’s coming down the line. I think this is the last place.

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:16:56] Yeah, we were last. We were last.

Sarah Nemeth [00:17:00] So when you moved to this area, when you got, you, when you got married, right?

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:17:05] Well, no, before I got married.

Sarah Nemeth [00:17:07] Just before you got married?

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:17:08] Yeah.

Sarah Nemeth [00:17:08] Then you met your first husband.

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:17:11] Mm hmm.

Sarah Nemeth [00:17:12] When did you- So at that time, it was people from West Virginia kind of over here, and then an Italian community. [KOL: Mm hmm] When did that start to change? Who’s the first group of people to sort of move in or move out?

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:17:30] Italians start moving out.

Sarah Nemeth [00:17:33] Okay.

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:17:34] Yeah. Because they just couldn’t get along. They were raised a whole lot different than you get your good old boys and stuff like that. So they start moving out. We wound up moving over to West 41st when I got married by St. Procop’s Church.

Sarah Nemeth [00:17:58] Okay.

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:18:00] And they had the bar right down the street, the Razorback, that kind of tells you. [laughs] And the Italians just kind of all scattered out. St. Rocco’s took the biggest hit because they’re Italian church. And now, now it’s more- You got a lot of Spanish, you know, it’s totally changed. Same thing with St. Michael. Totally changed. It’s all Spanish.

Sarah Nemeth [00:18:32] Really?

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:18:32] Yeah.

Sarah Nemeth [00:18:33] Do they do a mass in Spanish?

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:18:35] Oh, yeah, yeah, I went in there I was totally like- Because I got married in St. Michael’s. They changed the whole inside of the church, everything.

Sarah Nemeth [00:18:45] What did it used to look like?

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:18:48] Gorgeous. It was like a big cathedral. It was gorgeous. It’s the longest aisle, I think, in Cleveland. [laughs] Oh, lord. It was a long aisle you had to walk down. Mm hmm.

Sarah Nemeth [00:19:02] But today, what does it look like inside?

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:19:05] They kind of broke it up in different sections. It’s not like- It was a beautiful church. It still is a beautiful church. But like I said, mainly it’s all Spanish now in there.

Sarah Nemeth [00:19:20] Okay. Do you remember the Aragon Ballroom?

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:19:25] Oh, yeah, yeah.

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:19:28] I never was in it. Back in the day, we used to go past it. My mother and father. Now my father had polio, but my mother used to go to the Aragon Ballroom. But no, but I remember going past it.

Sarah Nemeth [00:19:45] What did it look like from the outside?

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:19:47] It was just a plain, square building. There was nothing really fantastic. Today now they got it really pretty. Whoever bought it rehabbed it and everything. I haven’t been inside. We’ve been to meetings about the Aragon Ballroom and about how the guy wants to change everything up. You know, I don’t know whatever happened, if he wound up getting all the permits, if he became a restaurant. I don’t know. I didn’t follow through with it.

Sarah Nemeth [00:20:18] But was that a place a lot of people went?

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:20:21] Oh, back in the day, yeah. Yeah. Because everybody danced.

Sarah Nemeth [00:20:25] What kind of music did they play there?

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:20:28] There was a lot of ballroom dancing, but there was a lot of, back in the day, the jitterbug and, you know, all stuff like that. Main thing people did was dance to get along with each other. Today, all they got to do, they drink. Drink and drugs. They don’t know how to have a good time.

Sarah Nemeth [00:20:50] Speaking of having a good time, I did interview your husband, and he told me about your bar or nightclub that you had. And he did mention that it was in your family for a while.

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:21:02] Yeah.

Sarah Nemeth [00:21:03] What is that what your parents did? They owned?

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:21:06] Yeah. Judy.

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:21:07] Judy’s White Oaks on 53rd and Clark.

Sarah Nemeth [00:21:12] What was it then?

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:21:13] It was just a regular bar.

Sarah Nemeth [00:21:15] Was it more like a- So working class?

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:21:19] It was a working-class bar, but it was more or less a good old boys’ bar. You know, it was just a family bar. You were able to go in it, but I turned it around, made a club out of it.

Sarah Nemeth [00:21:38] When it was Judy White Oaks, was there food sold there, or was it just drinks?

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:21:42] Once in a while me and my mother would have spaghetti dinners and stuff like that. But no, normally it was just an everyday beer and shot bar.

Sarah Nemeth [00:21:53] What kind of beer? Did you have taps?

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:21:56] Yeah, yeah, they had taps, Pabst Blue Ribbon, Blatz. Yeah, they had Blatz.

Sarah Nemeth [00:22:03] I’ve never even heard of Blatz.

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:22:05] Yeah, they had different stuff on tap, but mainly it was beer and shots.

Sarah Nemeth [00:22:13] Did you have any of the. There’s a lot of breweries around here. Did you ever get any beer from them?

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:22:18] No, there was no breweries back then.

Sarah Nemeth [00:22:20] By then there was no breweries? They were gone?

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:22:22] No, there was no breweries around then. Back then, when you got your beer, you got it off the truck. Beer trucks came, and that’s it.

Sarah Nemeth [00:22:33] It was in glass, and?

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:22:35] Oh, yeah, you got your bottle, beers and the cases and stuff like that? Yeah, there was no other thing.

Sarah Nemeth [00:22:43] So you inherited the bar?

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:22:45] Mm hmm.

Sarah Nemeth [00:22:47] And when was that that you decided to transform it?

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:22:51] 19, let’s see, 1988, ’89.

Sarah Nemeth [00:22:57] And what did you call it?

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:22:58] Diamond Dill’s Tropical Lounge.

Sarah Nemeth [00:23:01] And what kind of- It was a nightclub?

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:23:05] More or less. It was more of a club. It had the carpeting, had glass table, and there was a V.I.P. area for people. They would come, like, if you had a wedding, you would call me up and reserve the table. And so they would reserve the table, and I’d give them a bottle of champagne. They sat at the table. They had their own waitress. They didn’t have to get up. Oh, yeah, there was many times there was limos out front of the place. It was- It was uppity.

Sarah Nemeth [00:23:45] And who went there?

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:23:48] You had it from all the way from Warrensville. I don’t care where you were, because the way I believe, I don’t care what color your skin is, your money’s green. That’s what I was after. [laughs] And that’s how it was. So I had all nationalities in there, and everybody got along with it. Everybody was like one big, huge family in there. If you happen to get a little tipsy or drunk, I would get somebody else to drive you home. You did not get in your car and drive home.

Sarah Nemeth [00:24:22] Oh, before Uber, you were the-?

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:24:25] Yeah, I made sure everybody got home safely.

Sarah Nemeth [00:24:29] That’s really great. I wish more bars, which they should do that. And how long did it operate?

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:24:39] It only operated for about two years before the city came. They tried to tell me I needed a steel beam in the top of the roof, and all it was was that all the bars around here was complaining. They didn’t like the idea that I had all different people in the bar because it was a good old boys’ strip. And when you start bringing the Spanish, the Black, the White, the Asian and all that. They didn’t like that, so they started complaining. And then they tried to get me for a beam in the ceiling, which I was not going to put $40,000 for a beam, which there was already a beam in the ceiling, it’s just a steel beam. So I knew it was a game, right? I said, nope.

Sarah Nemeth [00:25:35] So that was it?

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:25:37] That was it. And then they came in. They said, well, we’re gonna close you. I said, no, you ain’t closing me. I’m closing myself. All the drinks stayed on the bar the day they came in. The people were all sitting at the bar. I told them, please get up, leave your stuff at the bar. And I put the padlock on the door and I walked away. That was the end of it.

Sarah Nemeth [00:25:58] Is it still sitting there?

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:26:00] No. They came, tore it down. They tried to get me to go back. No. You want it that bad, take it. All the liquor was in there, all the glasses, everything, the way it sat, came down. I didn’t take a thing out of that bar. You want it that bad? Take it.

Sarah Nemeth [00:26:22] Has there always been kind of a disconnect between the residents? And, I don’t know. If you were trying to make a change, I mean, you were trying to do something for everybody to come to-

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:26:33] Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:26:34] They want to fight you every inch of the way. It’s the same thing. When I came over here 30 years ago, over here on this street, the street was not nothing like it is today.

Sarah Nemeth [00:26:47] What did it used to look like?

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:26:48] Oh, they’re all- The homes were all nice, all nice. Then all of a sudden, the drug dealers start moving in and they start taking over. And then that’s when me and my husband started. No, no, no, it’s not going to be like that. We’re not going to live like that. So that’s when I started calling it the International Village. And as they start tearing the houses down, we started grabbing the lots because they were throwing tires and something. You’re making it look real sloppy. So I come up with the idea of, like, the sanctuary. That’s three houses, three lots.

Sarah Nemeth [00:27:27] The sanctuary, what’s that?

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:27:29] That’s down the street over here, right across from taxidermy shop. It’s the hummingbird and butterfly sanctuary. Looks like a big park. I made it all-

Sarah Nemeth [00:27:40] This one here?

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:27:41] Yeah, yeah, okay.

Sarah Nemeth [00:27:42] Yeah. So orchards and everything?

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:27:45] Yeah.

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:27:46] Then we turn around another, next door to the sanctuary was another house, and I wound up getting a grant. I put 23 trees in there, orchard. So each one, the councilman kept saying, Kat, you want another lot? We got another lot. And so that’s how we wound up with so many lots around here.

Sarah Nemeth [00:28:11] So you started to just go out and fix them up yourself?

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:28:15] That’s right.

Sarah Nemeth [00:28:16] And then the city comes in and they see you’re doing something positive.

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:28:20] I’m not that. Not the city.

Sarah Nemeth [00:28:22] The city didn’t know?

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:28:23] The city don’t do nothing. Neighborhood Connections was where I got the grants. They gave me the grants to start building and fixing and doing what I wanted to do with these different properties and buying the tools and the stuff for me to be able to do it. So, yes, Neighborhood Connections was a big help. Then those two lots across the street where the hoop house is, that was Department of Agriculture.

Sarah Nemeth [00:28:54] Really?

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:28:55] Yeah. And since I had the two lots over there that I was leasing, they said, well, do you want to put a hoop house on ’em? Said, yeah. So they helped with the hoop house and we grow vegetables in there and we give them to- We sell ’em to Metro Hospital.

Sarah Nemeth [00:29:19] Really?

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:29:20] Yeah.

Sarah Nemeth [00:29:20] How did you get that connection?

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:29:23] A Spanish girl. [laughs] She’s got a little thing in Metro Hospital where she sells the vegetables. So we just got ahold of her and she was buying our vegetables to bring over there and they were selling ’em for Metro.

Sarah Nemeth [00:29:45] For someone who may not know that will be listening to this, what is a hoop house?

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:29:50] It is- Hmm. It’s all plastic. It’s. I don’t know how to even describe it. It’s where you can grow vegetables and or flowers, whatever you want, all year round, because, yes, big, huge greenhouse. Like mine is 70, 72 feet long.

Sarah Nemeth [00:30:15] So just on West 48th street, there’s a 72-foot-long greenhouse and then-

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:30:21] The other one is 45 feet long.

Sarah Nemeth [00:30:26] How many vegetables? Like, how much do you produce out of that?

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:30:31] A lot, a lot, a lot. Main thing was, like last year the zucchinis were so huge, we go from zucchini to kale, tomatoes, peppers. You name it, we had it.

Sarah Nemeth [00:30:50] That’s really nice. Does anyone from the, like, surrounding area, do they ever come and try to help?

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:30:57] The girl you just seen here, she’s in the hoop house right now. She’s gonna probably be pulling weeds. It’s just the two girls upstairs go in there and help maintain it.

Sarah Nemeth [00:31:11] So there’s two ladies that live upstairs and they are the only ones in the community?

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:31:15] Yeah, because nobody wants to do anything. They all got their hand out when the vegetables are- But no, they don’t want to do nothing. They’re all lazy. Lazy. The kids nowadays, you can’t get them. Now, if I said I had some drugs over there, that whole yard would be filled, but to bend over and pull a weed? No, no. So now I am checking it out. I did have a family across the street from the hoop house that was from Somalia. Okay, yeah. And they were real nice people, and I got to know them pretty good. And the only reason I knew them was they were watching us. Before I had the hoop house, we had the gardens. We were pulling weeds and they started. No, no, no. I did not know our weeds is what they cook with.

Sarah Nemeth [00:32:18] Really?

Kathy Oberst Ledger [00:32:19] They eat. I did not know that. So I got a big education on what they eat. That’s so different from what we eat.

Kathy Oberst

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