Abstract
Lydia Crowder discusses her childhood and her move into Shaker Heights. She discusses her memory growing up in the Shaker Heights area, including her move from Sutton Road to Milverton Road and the various attractions in the area.
Loading...
Interviewee
Crowder, Lydia (interviewee)
Interviewer
Montgomery, Crystal (interviewer)
Project
Moreland History Project
Date
11-25-2017
Document Type
Oral History
Duration
37 minutes
Recommended Citation
"Lydia Crowder interview, 25 November 2017" (2017). Cleveland Regional Oral History Collection. Interview 904006.
https://engagedscholarship.csuohio.edu/crohc000/1136
Transcript
Crystal Montgomery [00:00:05] Hello.
Lydia Crowder [00:00:06] Hello.
Crystal Montgomery [00:00:07] It is recording.
Lydia Crowder [00:00:08] So it is.
Crystal Montgomery [00:00:09] Okay.
Lydia Crowder [00:00:10] It is recording because something. Yes. Moving there.
Crystal Montgomery [00:00:13] And this is moving like it didn’t last time. Okay, let’s try it one more time.
Lydia Crowder [00:00:19] Okay.
Crystal Montgomery [00:00:20] I am- My name is Crystal Montgomery, and I’m interviewing Lydia Crowder. She’s going to tell us about her childhood and just moving into Shaker Heights with her and her family. And I’ll let her take it from here. And also today is November 25, 19, 2017. Not 1917. 2017.
Lydia Crowder [00:00:47] Wow. Crystal.
Crystal Montgomery [00:00:48] Yeah, the mind goes. I’m still in the 1900s.
Lydia Crowder [00:00:51] Okay. Oh, wowee. Good morning. I’m Lydia Crowder. Lydia Grace Crowder. And I’m thankful for this opportunity to share a little bit of what I remember about growing up in Shaker in the Moreland area.
Crystal Montgomery [00:01:13] Say who your brothers were and where you guys lived.
Lydia Crowder [00:01:17] Okay. I have one senior brother. Do I need to tell his name or no? Okay.
Crystal Montgomery [00:01:20] You can tell us what you want.
Lydia Crowder [00:01:26] Okay. One senior brother and one junior sister and two junior brothers. And actually, my youngest brother wasn’t born until I went to college. My first year of college, he was born. So there were four of us for a long time. But, yeah, we lived in the Moreland area. We first moved into Shaker somewhere. I guess that was around 19, I want to say probably 1962 or three, something like that, because it was before Kennedy was assassinated, you know, it was before that. And we moved into a house on Sutton. Sutton Road. I can’t remember. I think Our address was 3417 Sutton Road. And it was a very nice house. But I think that I wanted to share that I wasn’t happy to move to Shaker at first because my parents felt that it was a good move to move out of Cleveland and get into Shaker school system because it had a very high rating. But I was going to Patrick Henry Junior High at that time, and I was on the track team, and I was running track, and I thought that I was going to really excel with that. Got a little ribbon and that kind of thing. And that was seventh grade, and I really didn’t want to leave my old house in the Glenville area. And even my friends, you know, there, it was weeping. It was just terrible, you know, leaving there. But when we did finally get into Shaker, it was, you know, we managed. We were adjusting, had to adjust to being there.
Crystal Montgomery [00:03:44] Do you think your senior brother felt the same way?
Lydia Crowder [00:03:47] I’m not sure that he felt the same way. I’m not really sure. He seemed to really do well in Shaker, you know. He was in the choir and he still sings today. But he really was more outgoing and meeting people and everything than I was.
Crystal Montgomery [00:04:13] Some other things in Shaker Heights that were going on in the early ’60s. Do you remember the car lots? Not car lots. Car dealerships that were around on Chagrin Boulevard?
Lydia Crowder [00:04:26] Well, I do remember Blaushild because we would walk, you know, from Sutton Road up Chagrin to the Lee-Harvard. I mean. Sorry, Lee Harvard. Lee Chagrin area where there was shopping and things, you know, so we’d always pass. And of course, the library, you know, was there that way. So we would pass Blaushild and the beautiful grass that they had, you know. They kept that grass so nice.
Crystal Montgomery [00:05:01] Do you remember the Gulf gas station?
Lydia Crowder [00:05:04] Oh, yes. The Gulf gas station was. That was our regular stop and getting ready for going to church. We would gas up there, and we had the attendant would come out and put the gas in. And all of our little family sitting in the car would think one day we should be able to put our own gas in. You know, never really realizing what’s coming to that. And now I wish I had somebody to put the gas in. But, yeah, Gulf station. In fact, even when I became an adult, I would take my car to the Gulf station because the mechanic was there and everything, you know. So, yes, I do remember that.
Crystal Montgomery [00:05:57] The Gulf station was at the corner of Milverton and Chagrin Boulevard.
Lydia Crowder [00:06:00] Right, right.
Crystal Montgomery [00:06:02] There’s another gas station also on Chagrin, Sunoco.
Lydia Crowder [00:06:08] Now, that one I don’t remember so well. Was it towards 154th, near that way? Okay. Where the parking lot is now for the sanitation department.
Crystal Montgomery [00:06:24] I’m not exactly sure the location, but that’s the vicinity.
Lydia Crowder [00:06:26] That area. Okay.
Crystal Montgomery [00:06:30] Alright.
Lydia Crowder [00:06:31] Thank you.
Crystal Montgomery [00:06:31] There. Also with the car dealerships. Do you remember any car dealerships on Lee Road?
Lydia Crowder [00:06:38] Yes. Now, I’m not sure if it was a Buick or Quay Buick or Pontiac. Seems like I remember those possibly down the strip, going from Chagrin to Scottsdale. Going that way. Yeah. Oh, dear.
Crystal Montgomery [00:07:09] There was something else that was going on during the early ’60s. Do you remember having any memories of the service center? Because Shaker Heights didn’t always have a service center.
Lydia Crowder [00:07:20] Right. Because before that service center was built, you could walk on Menlo. I could walk to my friend’s house, Menlo. Take it across Chagrin. Yeah, Across Chagrin. And get to her house easily on that end of Menlo. But then when they built that service center, I had to go all the way around to get to Menlo. Her end. And, yeah, I do remember when that was built now, I don’t remember people being upset about it being built in our area. I don’t remember, you know, that part so well, but I just remember it. It did block my path from getting to my friend’s house. That wasn’t good.
Crystal Montgomery [00:08:18] Okay. Even though you lived on Sutton Place in the Moreland area, they had a Chelton Park on Chelton Road. Did you ever venture up that way?
Lydia Crowder [00:08:29] You know, in those days, I didn’t really go to Chelton Park. I didn’t know about Chelton Park then.
Crystal Montgomery [00:08:39] Did you know anything about the cemetery that was on Lee Road getting close to Van Aken?
Lydia Crowder [00:08:46] Right. You know, I didn’t really know about that until I became an adult and started to teach in the public schools in Shaker and realized there’s the cemetery there. And I- And this year, as an adult in the ’60s now, and I said, I want to just see what that cemetery looks like. And it is definitely a cemetery there. Yeah.
Crystal Montgomery [00:09:15] Once you moved into Shaker Heights, how did it make you feel once you got into class, the classroom, integrating with the teachers and students?
Lydia Crowder [00:09:25] Right. It was definitely a big change from going to school in Cleveland, you know, where in my junior high in Cleveland, we were predominantly African American. You know, there you had a few whites, you had a few Asians, you know, but it was predominantly African American. So in going to Shaker was a big change because now it was predominantly Caucasian and really predominantly Jewish, you know, at that time, because I would remember the Jewish holidays would come around and then, you know, we would have only a few of us in school. And yeah, it was different, but people, the young people got. I think we got along okay. I think you could feel a little bit of prejudice though, you know, that somebody didn’t want to sit next to you or something like that. I kind of remember that kind of feeling, you know, from time to time.
Crystal Montgomery [00:10:43] But just little subtleties.
Lydia Crowder [00:10:45] Right, right. I think after people got a chance to really talk with you and, you know, work together when we were forced to work together on projects, you know. So I think that that kind of helped us to get along. Okay.
Crystal Montgomery [00:11:04] Very good. There were two Jewish synagogues in Shaker Heights. Do you remember those?
Lydia Crowder [00:11:18] Well, the one that I really remember was right there at Milverton and Chagrin, which is now the credit union. But I remember that one for sure. Trying to think of. There was another one. I’m not really sure about another one.
Crystal Montgomery [00:11:42] There was another. Let’s see if this will jog your memory more. On the one on Lee Road, close to- It’s in between Scottsdale and Hampstead.
Lydia Crowder [00:11:58] Oh, so you think that was that building that’s right on the corner Nicholas and Lee Road? I think it kind of. [crosstalk] Yeah, it’s a church now. It’s a church now. It’s like a little box, right? Exactly. And that was a synagogue. Wow. Wow. Okay.
Crystal Montgomery [00:12:31] And moving up into the ’70s, do you remember anything about when the barricades were put in from Cleveland to Shaker Heights? Any controversy there? Just any memories that you can share with us?
Lydia Crowder [00:12:44] Okay. I do remember people being very upset about that. You know, cutting off of that travel through those roads to get into Cleveland. I think I do remember people being upset about that. I know from trying to get from Lee Road to turn on to Scottsdale, you can’t do that. So that’s a little bit of frustration for the people who live like I live on Nicholas. And I have to either take the next street in Cleveland or take Lomond to go up to Warrensville Center Road. So, yeah, I just remember some controversial. A little bit. Yeah. Yeah.
Crystal Montgomery [00:13:39] Now, when you moved into Shaker Heights, you were in the Sutton area. Did you guys move to a different location?
Lydia Crowder [00:13:47] Yes, we lived on Sutton for a while. And I’m not sure how long we actually lived on Sutton, but I think that it was after two times we were flooded. Our basement had six feet of water. Our washer dryer were floating. You know, the dog is paddling. It was just awful. It happened to us. I remember two years and then the city decided that not only our house, but I think there were four houses. Four or maybe. Yeah, I think four houses for sure were going to be torn down and they were going to build Sutton Place. And so our house was one. And so we moved from there to Milverton and we lived at 3421 Milverton for a long time. For the time that I was going through high school and college.
Crystal Montgomery [00:14:46] Now they were going to build Sutton Place. What was Sutton Place? Can you explain what happened there?
Lydia Crowder [00:14:51] Okay. What they did is- And it had to have been more than just our four houses because it also Colwyn, I think that end of Colwyn, they must have taken a couple houses there, there. But they built Sutton Place. It’s a group of townhouses really. And I don’t know, I don’t think I visited someone who lived in Sutton Place and there’s no basement. I think that they’re just on cement block or something. But they look very nice. The townhouses I’ve driven around that area is like a cul de sac. And so they look very nice and I don’t know if they’re really expensive, more expensive, but that’s what they built, you know, and so that’s what displaced us, really.
Crystal Montgomery [00:15:56] So they demolished four houses, including the one that you were living in. Any controversy about that or can you share experiences about?
Lydia Crowder [00:16:12] You know, I only remember my father being happy to move because, you know, having to replace things, you know, from that flooding. It was something going on with that flooding situation. I remember one time there was so much water, the neighbor got his boat out and I mean, he was paddling down the street. I’m like, what is this going on here? So we had a lot of water. Okay.
Crystal Montgomery [00:16:51] Was that the ’70s or ’60s?
Lydia Crowder [00:16:53] That had to be- And you know what, I’m not sure. Oh, you know what? We’re talking about the ’60s. I’m talking about 1990 something. Okay. [laughs] Yeah. It had to been in the late or early, no, early ’60s, really.
Crystal Montgomery [00:17:13] When you had the flooding?
Lydia Crowder [00:17:14] Right. Because by the late ’60s, come to think of it, that’s when I graduated from high school. [laughs]So I was on Milverton when, you know, the like ’69, when I graduated from high school. So that had to have been back in ’65, ’66, something like that. Yeah, thanks for that correction. I’m like, what are the ’60s? Yeah, that was in the ’60s. That’s right.
Crystal Montgomery [00:17:43] Now, once you got to Milverton, did you still have flooding problems?
Lydia Crowder [00:17:48] We got water a little bit, maybe about an inch or so, you know, from time to time in the basement. Right. Yeah. It really wasn’t nothing like what we experienced, but we did get some water. Yeah. From time to time. Yeah. Back in the ’60s. Yeah.
Crystal Montgomery [00:18:12] Do you remember Chagrin-Lee-Avalon used to have a block party or any block parties in the area where you lived either house?
Lydia Crowder [00:18:23] Okay. No, let me think back to- No, I don’t really remember any block parties.
Crystal Montgomery [00:18:33] Where the streets are closed off and everyone can-
Lydia Crowder [00:18:37] Right, right. I just don’t remember that. And of course, Milverton is. How can you block that? I don’t know, I don’t think. No.
Crystal Montgomery [00:18:48] Or even the Chagrin Lee-Avalon area.
Lydia Crowder [00:18:51] That retail in that area? Yeah. I’m not good with that. Sorry.
Crystal Montgomery [00:19:00] Can you tell us more your experiences about shopping in Shaker, that Shaker area on Chagrin Area. Chagrin and Lee.
Lydia Crowder [00:19:08] Okay. Chagrin and Lee. I remember there was a Five and Dime, you know, and I don’t know if it was a Woolworth or if it was a Scott’s Five and Dime. Or something like that. Kresge or something. It was. There was definitely a five and dime store there and that would be the place to go to shop when we were getting ready for Christmas. Have our little money that we saved up to go up and buy something, some handkerchief for somebody or whatever we wanted to get, you know, and yeah, that was a fun excursion to go there. Okay. Yeah.
Crystal Montgomery [00:19:56] Did you shop anywhere else besides the five and dime?
Lydia Crowder [00:20:02] Probably not, because those other stores were the Heinen’s. Heinen’s was there. Yeah, yeah, we were grocery shopping. Heinen’s, yeah, Heinen’s was there, but it was smaller than we experience it today. And then there was also the Pick and Pay on Chagrin and Lee and that became the Topps store. It was called Topps. And then it went out of business, I think after that. Was it a Buy Rite? There was- Oh, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, there was a Buy Rite. I remember that. Yeah. And then there was the little penny candy store on the way between Sutton and Lee Road on the way there. There was a little strip somewhere here that I couldn’t remember the name of the store. You can go in and buy penny candy. Yeah, I remember that.
Crystal Montgomery [00:21:21] Well, let’s see. Let’s go back to Chagrin and Ludgate. Do you remember a funeral home being on the corner there?
Lydia Crowder [00:21:31] Ludgate, yes.
Crystal Montgomery [00:21:33] Or some type of large building.
Lydia Crowder [00:21:35] Yes, I remember there was a funeral home there and there’s also one down here across Lee Road and it’s still here today. That funeral home, that’s near the fire station.
Crystal Montgomery [00:21:50] Okay. Do you remember it being demolished? It’s where they call it Hildan Apartment.
Lydia Crowder [00:21:59] It’s the park. It’s there now. Yeah.
Crystal Montgomery [00:22:03] No memories of it being demolished?
Lydia Crowder [00:22:05] Not really. It was there and it was gone. I don’t know.
Crystal Montgomery [00:22:10] Okay. It’s a hard one. Everyone now who’s a lot younger that doesn’t remember the old Chagrin-Lee-Avalon shopping area, they just know the way it is now. And people keep talking about this bowling alley.
Lydia Crowder [00:22:34] Oh, yeah.
Crystal Montgomery [00:22:35] Do you remember the bowling alley or anything else?
Lydia Crowder [00:22:37] Oh, yeah.
Crystal Montgomery [00:22:38] That was there for entertainment or just anything.
Lydia Crowder [00:22:41] We used to go to the bowling alley. That was a fun experience to go there. It was right beyond Lee Road. When you come to Lee and Chagrin, then you cross over and there was the Revco drugstore there. And then there was the building that had, I think, a dental office in there and. But then the bowling alley was there and you could take some bowling classes. You know, they taught you how to bowl. It was fun.
Crystal Montgomery [00:23:24] Do you remember Congressman Stokes, his home, where he lived?
Lydia Crowder [00:23:30] I only knew that he lived in the. I thought Ludlow area. And. And his daughter, Louis Stokes. Right. You’re talking about his daughter. Shelly Stokes was in my class. Angie Stokes was in my sister’s class, I think. But, yeah, that’s what I remember about him. I came across a picture of him, too, with a class that I had snapped somewhere. We were in the same school, and it might have been a class in Cleveland. I’m not sure that. Yeah. He had spoken or something. Yeah. Lewis Stokes.
Crystal Montgomery [00:24:15] Did you know Congresswoman Marcia Fudge or that she lived in Shaker Heights?
Lydia Crowder [00:24:20] I knew she lived in Shaker, and she was more along my sister’s class. Yeah. I didn’t really know her, but my sister knew her fairly well. We were excited when she became mayor in Warrensville or something. And then now Congresswoman, you know, so it’s great.
Crystal Montgomery [00:24:45] Now, my next question may be after your time, but maybe you can just express what your feeling was then or you. What was going on during the time when Shaker Heights started bussing.
Lydia Crowder [00:25:01] Okay. You know what? I don’t remember when it started bussing was that I do believe
Crystal Montgomery [00:25:14] Some of the dates that you gave me here that you graduated from high school in ’69.
Lydia Crowder [00:25:18] Right.
Crystal Montgomery [00:25:19] I think that’s about when it started.
Lydia Crowder [00:25:21] Okay. Okay.
Crystal Montgomery [00:25:23] Maybe your brothers and sisters were talking about it.
Lydia Crowder [00:25:27] Right. I think that I remember people, some people being uncomfortable about that, you know, especially when we think about Moreland and then we think about Mercer area, you know, and they’re. And they’re doing that today. That’s a long way, you know, to send your child, you know, to school. But that’s what they figured they had to do to get the ratio, you know, of better racial balance. Right, right. Because. Yeah, you know, when I think about it. That’s right. I went to Woodbury. Woodbury was junior high at that time, and it had quite a few African Americans there. But Byron was not. Did not. Byron had, I don’t know, maybe a few African Americans out there, but it was predominantly white. And then. So in order for them to try to, you know, balance, then some children had to be bused out there. So, I don’t know. I think that I’m. Today, I think about how. Where I live on Nicholas, and I see the children taking the bus to go all the way to Mercer. I think, wow, it’s a long way, you know, for them to go.
Crystal Montgomery [00:27:11] Kids really little.
Lydia Crowder [00:27:13] Yeah, And then I think, wow, look at all of the Buses in Shaker, because I live right behind the bus garage and there’s so many bus. I said, this community is not that large, is it? But yeah, they want to make sure that the children are getting where they have to go and safely. So the buses are continuing.
Crystal Montgomery [00:27:41] All right, I got one final question. Any memories of East View Baptist Church?
Lydia Crowder [00:27:49] Yes, East View. I didn’t attend East View when I was growing up, but I remember after going to college, after living on Milverton, I was right down the street from East View. And remember, I remember Pastor Lassiter, what a dear, dear man. And he has passed away now. But he was just a dear, dear man. So some good things. And then I began to have Bible clubs, teach Bible clubs. And so he allowed us to have a Bible club there at East View. And so that was really encouraging to reach the children in my area.
Crystal Montgomery [00:28:45] I think at one time East View Baptist Church was used for a location for voting.
Lydia Crowder [00:28:53] Yeah, I think so, too. No, I didn’t. When I started voting, I started voting at library in my area.
Crystal Montgomery [00:29:06] Well, Lydia, I do believe that concludes my questions or directional type questions. You know, kind of spark memories of African Americans moving into Shaker Heights and what their experiences were. Okay, So I thank you.
Lydia Crowder [00:29:23] All right. I thank you, too. I didn’t get to tell you about the cheerleading experience, but that’s okay.
Crystal Montgomery [00:29:29] No, no, we have time. No, Any experiences you want to share, go right ahead.
Lydia Crowder [00:29:34] Yeah, I have to just put that out there. Every time some people see me from high school, they’ll say that was our first African American cheerleader. You know, they remember me for that. But I don’t know if I was really the first. But anyway, that was in 1960. ’68, or I think it was ’68 that I tried out. And I made it. And I made it, I think not only because I could flip and I could do those cartwheels and things like that, but it was also because of the black movement, the Black power movement. The black students at Shaker Heights High School said, she better get in. They had two or three of us auditioning or trying out for cheerleaders, and I was the one that made it. And they said, she better get in.
Crystal Montgomery [00:30:42] So was there a group of students at Shaker Heights High that were in a group that supported the Black Power movement?
Lydia Crowder [00:30:49] Yeah, yeah, definitely. Yeah. But, you know, of course there were students who also were nonviolent. I mean, they were nonviolent. They were just, you know, wanted to see more Black history taught. They wanted to see, you know, more African American faces as teachers, you know. So yeah, that was around that time. That was in the ’60s. Yeah, it was pretty different time. Yeah, but we’re thankful, you know, we’re thankful for the experiences and you know, today, I don’t know, it’s just a whole different picture. At the high school, did you participate.
Crystal Montgomery [00:31:42] In anything else in high school, junior high? Anything else?
Lydia Crowder [00:31:46] Like uh huh. I was in the choir. I was in the. What did they call that group? There was a group that had the gold robes. And that was before you became and came to the a cappella choir. So I forgot the name of that. But when you were younger, that was in the day when there was 10th, 11th, 12th grade, you know, at the high school. And so I think in 10th grade I sang with this first choir, forgot the name of it, and we would sing at Plymouth Church, you know. And then in high school or in 11th grade is when I moved to the a cappella choir and it was. I really enjoyed that experience. I’m really thankful for having had that experience in high school of singing in the choir. You know, Mr. Ellis was a wonderful choir director and he. Oh my goodness. I remember him saying whenever we were late, anybody who came in late, he would say, better never than late. That was his word. Better never than late. So we tried to make sure we were on time, but yeah, but he taught us some beautiful music. When I remember as I read the Bible now, some of the psalms. We were singing the psalms in high school. We were singing the Hallelujah chorus. We learned all of that and we sang at different places. Like I said, we went to Plymouth, we went to Shaker Square and we sang in different places. And I don’t know that they teach those songs today, but it was a wonderful experience and I’m so thankful for that. And I’m thankful for also the sports in Shaker, you know, because extracurricular activities I was very involved with playing field hockey, volleyball. Didn’t do basketball so much, but I remember strongly field hockey and the volleyball for sure. And it was a way to, you know, after school take out some energy, you know, from the day. But yeah, so those are some really neat things that.
Crystal Montgomery [00:34:30] Well, it sounds like you had a great experience growing up in Shaker Heights.
Lydia Crowder [00:34:34] Yeah, turned out nice.
Crystal Montgomery [00:34:38] I’m going to ask one question only because you had not trouble, but the Black Power movement wanted to make sure you got in to be the first Black cheerleader. Did you have any troubles getting into other sports or singing in the choir? The Black Power movement didn’t have anything to do with Those? No, just cheerleading.
Lydia Crowder [00:35:00] Yeah. No, it was- Yeah. I think that that’s where they felt a lot of- I guess they felt some prejudice going on with how the girls were selecting, being selected. And so. Yeah, no, that was the only thing I remember. Yeah.
Crystal Montgomery [00:35:22] That is a more subjective type sport. Cheerleading.
Lydia Crowder [00:35:27] Cheerleading, yeah. Yeah. That’s the thing. But then again, you know, today, it’s a different world. I don’t know.
Crystal Montgomery [00:35:36] We won’t go there.
Lydia Crowder [00:35:37] Right. Right.
Crystal Montgomery [00:35:40] Anything else you wish to tell us, dear, about the history of being in Shaker Heights?
Lydia Crowder [00:35:46] Yeah, you know, I’m anything. Anything at all. I’m just, like I said, very thankful it turned out to be a good move. You know, when I was going through that separation of my friends from the Glenville area, I didn’t like it. But it turned out to be a very good move. And even as I finished school, went off to college and came back to teach, I was able to teach in Shaker for 18 years. So I’m just really grateful for the experience. Yeah. Thanks for asking.
Crystal Montgomery [00:36:31] Oh, certainly.
Lydia Crowder [00:36:32] Yeah.
Crystal Montgomery [00:36:34] If that’s all you do wish to share with us or, you know, I guess you can have memories of every single thing.
Lydia Crowder [00:36:40] Yes.
Crystal Montgomery [00:36:42] Then we’ll conclude.
Lydia Crowder [00:36:44] Yes.
Crystal Montgomery [00:36:45] Alright. Well, thank you, Lydia.
Lydia Crowder [00:36:47] Alright. Thank you, Crystal.
Creative Commons License
This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 License.
