Abstract
Lori Stokes is the youngest child of Louis Stokes. She is a graduate of The Ohio State University and Howard University and is a morning television anchor in New York City. This 2017 interview was collected as part of a yearlong, community-wide commemoration of the 50th anniversary of Carl Stokes' election as mayor of Cleveland.
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Interviewee
Stokes, Lori (interviewee)
Interviewer
Hickey, Christine (interviewer)
Project
Stokes: Honoring the Past, Inspiring the Future
Date
2017
Document Type
Oral History
Duration
45 minutes
Recommended Citation
"Lori Stokes interview, 2017" (2017). Cleveland Regional Oral History Collection. Interview 501023.
https://engagedscholarship.csuohio.edu/crohc000/1199
Transcript
Christine Hickey [00:00:04] How's audio? Excellent, thank you. Okay, so Christine Hickey is here with Lori Stokes, and we're going to be talking about her uncle and her father. And you go by Lori Stokes, right?
Lori Stokes [00:00:18] I do.
Christine Hickey [00:00:19] L,O,R,I, correct? S,T,R,O,K,E,S?
Lori Stokes [00:00:22] S,T,O,K,E,S. [crosstalk] T,R,K something Strokes? It's like they- It's okay. I've probably been called worse.
Christine Hickey [00:00:37] Okay, so first I want to talk a little bit about Carl. And I know you were young when he became mayor, but in general, tell me about your memories of your Uncle Carl
Lori Stokes [00:04:55] Well, they span my memories of my Uncle Carl span such a huge amount of years. When you talk about when he first went in to became Cleveland's mayor and America's first Black mayor, that was 1967, and I was born in '62, so I was very young. But I certainly know of all the stories, particularly of that night that he was elected, because it was. He won by 1700 votes. So it was still close, but it was still a clear win. And so I hear the stories about that night when my father was upstairs with Dr. Martin Luther King and when they found out when the results came in, the jubilation in the streets and this triumph against Seth Tath, who in itself was such a huge name and a legacy, and that America never thought something like this would happen. So I've heard the tales of that night and how my father stayed upstairs with Dr. King while my Uncle Carl went downstairs to greet his voters with this wonderful news of what had just happened and the implications of what it meant around the world, for that matter. My recollections more were, of course, as I got older with my Uncle Carl and the love that he showed toward me and also what he meant to this country, whether it was as the mayor of Cleveland, he then went on to become New York's first black anchorman, then coming back home to Cleveland, becoming a judge, and then being appointed to the ambassador to the Seychelles by President Clinton. So during those times, particularly, I remember when I was at Ohio University or Ohio State, when I was at Ohio State and I would call my uncle because he knew I had no money and he would send me money while I was there so that I could get chicken wings or whatever it was. And then. And that always continued to be a theme when I. He was so instrumental, as I mentioned, he became New York's first anchorman. And when I told him that I was thinking of going into journalism, we were standing at his home on Larchmere and he was just giving me Advice of the responsibility that comes with being a journalist, beyond being fair, the truth that's involved with being a journalist, the awesome responsibility of the power that you have and an obligation that you have to viewers. And he was telling me that I had to have a thick skin. He told me, don't lose the compassion. Don't become jaded, but believe in yourself. And he said to me, you sure you want to do this? And I said, yeah, I'm sure, Uncle Carl. And I remember at the time, he was in the transition of going to the ambassadorship, so he was selling everything at the home in Shaker Heights. And he gave me his only Emmy that he had gotten from WNBC in New York for the great, outstanding work that he had done. And to me, I have it today with all of my other Emmys, but it's front and center, and it still is one of the most precious gifts I've ever received, because I feel as if my uncle and everything he did was so much like my father in that excellence was one of the leading factors that made them who they both were, that they demanded excellence of themselves. And then that became something, I think, that others could follow. Even when I was my first job in Champaign Urbana, again, I was making no money, and again my uncle was there sending a check here and there. Something we didn't even discuss with my parents. It was just the goodness. The goodness of who he was.
Christine Hickey [00:05:15] Okay. Adrian, are you okay with sound? I didn't know if her hair was hit in the mic.
Lori Stokes [00:05:20] Oh, I can put it back.
Christine Hickey [00:05:22] That's okay.
Lori Stokes [00:05:24] Just make sure that if her face dips down, just follow her face. Don't worry if you get the top.
Christine Hickey [00:05:28] I think you answered quite a few questions.
Lori Stokes [00:05:30] Okay, good. So wind me up. Okay.
Christine Hickey [00:05:39] What would you? What would you say? The late- I mean, you can name the one legacy that everybody knows, but is there another legacy? What would you say the legacy of Carl Stokes was?
Lori Stokes [00:07:02] I think the legacy of my Uncle Carl was- You know the phrase of jack of all trades, master of none? I think that my uncle was jack of all trades, master of all. Everything he did, whether he was a liquor agent or boxing or playing billiards or being the mayor or being a journalist or being an ambassador or being an uncle or being a father or being a brother or being a husband or being a son, I think he mastered it all with such energy and enthusiasm. He did everything his way. He didn't follow anybody's book but his own, and no one could replicate what he did. He had fire. He didn't take any foolishness off of anyone. And if you challenged him to something, you better be prepared to lose because he was going to go deep and he was going to win. I think that's his legacy.
Christine Hickey [00:07:04] That's good. It sums them all up.
Lori Stokes [00:07:06] Yes.
Christine Hickey [00:07:09] It goes back to that. The excellence what you were talking about before.
Lori Stokes [00:07:13] Yeah.
Christine Hickey [00:07:13] Expecting excellence out of themselves.
Lori Stokes [00:07:15] Yeah.
Christine Hickey [00:07:17] Now, your uncle and father work together as a team, and I don't know if you saw it as much as because you were younger at the time, but they very much worked together as a team, I'm guessing throughout their lives.
Lori Stokes [00:07:27] Yes.
Christine Hickey [00:07:28] Tell me about their relationship from your perspective, the two brothers?
Lori Stokes [00:13:40] The relationship between my father and my uncle, I think was extraordinary. There was a very deep love that they had for one another. And that love really started as children because they did not have their father. Their father died when my father was 3, Carl was 1. He died of acute peritonitis. So they never had the benefit of knowing their father and being able to emulate anyone. And it was Carl, my dad and their mother. And she loved those boys like nobody's business. And the story, of course, everyone knows my grandmother was a domestic and would travel, take two trolley cars to clean other people's homes. She called it in service. She did not call herself a domestic. She had a seventh grade education. She made $8 a day. And she had asked her mother to come up from Georgia to help assist with everything because she would sometimes have to spend the night. So with her being gone, there were many times where Carl and Lou, Billy and brother, as they were called when they were young, they only had each other and they really had to depend on each other for everything. You know, during the Great Depression, when they would fill a wagon with food supplies and one would carry a stick to beat off anyone who came on the side while the other one would pull the dry goods. They took odd jobs. My dad used to shine shoes. And the more he popped the rag, the bigger tip he would get. Carl would collect glass and plastic bottles and try and get money for that. So there was at it went beyond siblings. They were almost one at times, always looking out for the other ones. Back from childhood through adulthood and even through the neighborhood adult, you know, whether it was Carl learning how to box and my dad also, although Carl was better at boxing, there was this always a parallel, but yet they each took their own path. My dad loved the law, Carl loved politics. And even though they both went off to the war, of course they both served in the army, but my father embraced Going to school a little bit more than my uncle, because Carl wanted to get there. You know, he didn't always want to have to go do all the work to get there, you know, because he was going to get there his way. And so I always grew up knowing they had this machine, they had a Stokes machine that came from childhood, through their teen years, serving in the army, coming back, both going to law school, eventually having a partnership in a law firm. Although my dad talks about the only time that they argued was one time when my father kept feeling as if my uncle wasn't bringing in law cases. And he said to him, you know, Carl, you're having these meetings talking about politics. You're not bringing cases in. I need you to bring in some clients. And he said, Louis, paying the rent, which means that for half of this, I can do whatever I want to in this office. And so my father acknowledged he had a point. And then, you know, he told him, I had this dream. I had this dream that we would have this law partnership and we'd be, you know, the greatest lawyers together. And he basically said to my father, lou, you should have shared that dream with me, you know, because his love was for politics and my dad's was for the law. But they supported each other in a phenomenal way. Never tearing the other one down, never having a rivalry with one another, always trying to understand where the other one was coming from. I think of when my father became a United States member of Congress. And he and his brother, there's a famous photo of them standing in front of. Of the Capitol building, America's first Black mayor and Ohio's first Black congressman, standing side by side, these two brothers who came from absolutely nothing, making history and changing the framework of politics and of Black politics. And then as time went on, I think of even when my uncle was the ambassador to the Seychelles, and there was an event that they were supposed to go to here in Cleveland, and my uncle was having some issues with his throat, and he told my father, lou, I can't make it to this event. And he described some of the symptoms that he was starting to have. And they went to the doctor, and he was diagnosed with esophageal cancer. My father spoke often about the time that they went to one of the New York hospitals to see if he could find some treatment for this. And surgeon opened up my uncle and closed him up after half an hour. My father talks about. He will never forget the day when that surgeon came back and said there was nothing that they could do. For my uncle. And they had an extraordinarily frank relationship, an honest relationship with each other to the very end. When my uncle passed away and my father had the loss of his baby brother, it was very difficult. They were something else together. Now you're with me.
Christine Hickey [00:13:52] Let me see. Now. I mean, your father, you know, from what I've heard, always wanted, you know, he was passionate about the law.
Lori Stokes [00:14:05] Yes.
Christine Hickey [00:14:06] You know, didn't really have politics in his blood.
Lori Stokes [00:14:08] Yeah, not at all.
Christine Hickey [00:14:10] Sorry.
Lori Stokes [00:14:11] That's okay.
Christine Hickey [00:14:14] He didn't really have politics in his blood like your brother did. But both of them felt they needed, I believe, to serve in political life. Where do you think that motivation came from?
Lori Stokes [00:14:28] I mean, let me think.
Christine Hickey [00:14:30] We can wait.
Lori Stokes [00:14:30] Okay. [laughs] You have your tissues, right?
Christine Hickey [00:14:34] That's totally my fault.
Lori Stokes [00:16:11] It's okay. I'm not sure exactly where the love of politics came from, but I do believe that both of them felt they had an obligation to change the world. They felt as if they were caught up in this movement of change during the Civil Rights Movement, knowing that they came from the belly of poverty and realizing along the way the achievements that they were making. I think they both felt they had an obligation to uplift others. And I think they both realized that their power was coming from a place of a whole wave of individuals that were swept up in this movement. I know that my uncle was inspired a lot by John Holly, who had come up from Tuscaloosa and was leading boycotts in Cleveland against different white owned stores who would not employ Blacks. And so Mr. Holly's whole philosophy was, if these stores won't employ Blacks, then we ought not support them.
Lori Stokes [00:18:49] So he went from the May Company and the transit system and banks and the Bell telephone system making a change. And he caught the eye even of Martin Luther King who saw this person who was affecting change in Cleveland. And it was during the time of voter registration. And my uncle was inspired by John Holly. And my father, of course, was in the redress committee of the NAACP here at the time as well. And so it was almost a frenzy of change in this pocket of '64 through '68, '69, whether it was NAACP and boycotting and voter registration and my uncle serving in the state legislature and then wanting to run for Congress, but he couldn't because at the time they were gerrymandering and they were trying to put up an obstacle so that he couldn't. And his first run in '65, in which he lost, but then deciding to run again in '67 while my father was handling the litigation, part of the gerrymandering. And then once he became the mayor and originally was going to run for Congress, and my father said, okay, now, Carl, you can run for mayor. And he said, I'm running for Congress. He said, but I'm the mayor. And then my father running for Congress, all in this little nutshell of relatively eight years, of all the overlapping. And so I think they felt that in a role of the mayor of Cleveland and the role that my father had now as a US Congressman, the power to suddenly give other people rights that had no voice, who were underserved and underrepresented and had, who were powerless. They realized in their roles in politics, they could give them power and inspire and let them know that the status quo did not have to be anymore. And I think they knew they were the instruments to affect the change. That's a long way to get to that.
Christine Hickey [00:19:16] No, that's great. There's lots of little things in there. You know how it is.
Lori Stokes [00:19:18] All right. [laughs] Christine Hickey [00:19:23] Did you have a comment? I was- You know, your father didn't originally want to run for Congress. Do you? Do you?
Christine Hickey [00:19:32] Well, you were young, though.
Lori Stokes [00:19:33] No, he was a reluctant.
Christine Hickey [00:19:34] Right.
Lori Stokes [00:19:35] He's a very reluctant politician.
Christine Hickey [00:19:37] What do you think?
Lori Stokes [00:25:22] Well, I think one reason why, when I alluded to the gerrymandering and no longer was my uncle capable of running for Congress, and my father had realized how historical my uncle's election was as mayor, and he saw this opportunity to become Ohio's first Black representative as another historical moment. And having the two Stokes brothers together. In this historical platform in America, you couldn't beat it. And he knew by galvanizing, everything was always grassroots. And they knew by starting grassroots, you could galvanize, particularly with the 21st district. The 21st congressional district was an example for the entire world on how it's done. When my father had Arnold Pinckney as his campaign manager, who he talked about for years as being masterful when it comes to running a campaign, and they had a beautiful relationship for years. As with politics, there are always moments when there are falling outs. But the love for one another and the loyalty that they had for one another, it was one for the history books. And so up until the day my father passed away, he was still so proud of the fact that he was the only Black man that Ohio has ever sent to the United States Congress. We've had, of course, Marcia Fudge and Stephanie Tubbs Jones, who he loves and adores both of those women and broke his heart when Stephanie passed. But he would always remark he was still the only Black man that this great state sent to Congress. And I think that once he got in there again with the nine members that were there, his dear friend Bill Clay from Missouri, and Shirley Chisholm from New York, and Charlie Rangel from New York at the time, Adam Clayton Powell was still there, Charlie Diggs, George Collins from Illinois, Conyers was there from Michigan. And they then formed the Congressional Black Caucus. And this was during a time when our president was Nixon, who would not listen to them, would not listen to the needs of African Americans across this country. And they were the ones who held his feet to the fire and said, well, we're going to boycott your State of the Union. You won't listen to us. We're not going to listen to you. And it was only during that time that the president then started to realize the power that had been formed, 1971, with the congressional Black Caucus, to make a manifest of a manifesto of what the needs were going to be for African Americans in the country, and that they were not going to be silent and he was going to listen to their needs, whether it revolved around housing or education or the environment or health care. So many issues that were not afforded, that Blacks were not afforded the benefit of. And so I think he started to realize, while he might have been reluctant in the beginning, he realized that once he could get into the halls of Congress, the power that could be obtained, whether it was sitting on the subcommittees of the Appropriations or leading House Ethics or his work with the House Assassin Assassinations Committee, that these were the different areas, you know, when different entities, government entities would come before him and his committees and they would ask for money for X, Y and Z, he would be able to say to them, well, how many Black people are in your agency and what type of work are you doing on behalf of Black Americans across this country? If they were not able to tell him what they were doing, he would then say to them, well, then there's no reason for me to fund whatever your interests are if you don't step up to the plate and recognize that this is part of your constituency as well. And I think that's one of the things that he was so proud of, that he, in a sea of whites on these various committees that he sat on, he had to. He knew it was incumbent upon him at every single committee hearing to bring up the needs of his constituents and Black Americans across the country that he knew, although he would get tired of saying, here I go again, and he knew that they would probably roll their eyes. Oh, there goes Lou. That he knew it had to be done. If it wasn't his voice bringing it up, who was going to bring it up? And he said he thought as he would reflect upon his 30 years in Congress, he would say, did I do the right thing? Should I have brought it up at that committee? And then he always came to the conclusion that he did the right thing, that he left people in a much better state than when he first came to Congress, and that he paved the way for so many. So I think he ended up realizing he was meant to be a politician. He loved the law, but he was also meant to be a politician, you know.
Christine Hickey [00:25:33] Yeah. He was able to impact Cleveland on a Cleveland and the United States on a broader scale.
Lori Stokes [00:25:37] Things have lived on way- And will live on way beyond him.
Christine Hickey [00:25:41] Yeah. I'm gonna ask a couple more, and this is more at the end, we're probably gonna do a video on the whole project as a whole. So what does the Stokes commemorative project mean to you and your family to have a project like this that revolves around your uncle and your father?
Lori Stokes [00:30:08] Well, I've talked with President Johnson about this, what it means to the Stokes family. I have to believe that both my uncle and my father are looking down and seeing this. You know, both of them benefited from seeing buildings go up while they were here. Getting numerous awards, hearing the accolade, having people always come up to them and tell them what they meant to them. They always cherish that. I know that my father really was a humble man. He appreciated so much simple things. A thank you for someone, someone telling a story, how he helped them do something. He would take his time with individuals. But I think there were times when you're in politics, it's a thankless job, and sometimes you feel alone, and sometimes you feel as if people don't really know what you've done, what you've sacrificed. You know, the good, the bad, and the ugly. And so while I think both of them secured their legacy through their actions, serving the people of Cleveland and serving the nation, so often when people are gone, we forget about them. And I think what Tracy is doing with the 50th commemoration of my uncle and of my father is that validation of what the Stokes brothers did. It's also one of the most beautiful thank yous that the Stokes family could ever ask for. You know, my father's always going to be my father. I'm always going to love him and, you know, walked the walk with him as he served. But this has gone above and beyond. When you have a year long set of talks and concerts and plays and speeches and gatherings. When you collectively pull together the Maltz Museum and the Mandel family and Cleveland Clinic and Care Mu and so many entities that are what make this town great, that everyone is participating, spearheaded by Tri-C. It is as my father would. I can only imagine my dad would smile and be so humbled and be so grateful and say you shouldn't have. But he'd be glad that they did. Because what you all are doing continues to live on and further cements the legacy of the Stokes brothers and keeps it fresh in many generations minds. And also, I hope, inspires people in a way that they understand that no obstacle should ever really stand in the way of what they want to achieve and what they can do for others. That they can achieve the greatness that the Stokes brothers did and beyond. So we're very thankful.
Christine Hickey [00:30:17] Yeah. I was gonna ask and it- If we do just a little piece on this, is, you know, why is this- Why do you feel this project is important to- I know we'll stop.
Lori Stokes [00:30:28] I hate this. I do this all the time. It'll be two years and two months, you know, so it's still- It's still, you know, hasn't been gone that long.
Christine Hickey [00:31:07] Why do you feel this project is important to our community and in particular young people? I mean, did your uncle and your father, I believe, had a passion for, you know, they were caught up in that movement and everything. But I believe from what I've heard, they really want to inspire others, particularly young. It's important for them to know.
Lori Stokes [00:37:25] Well, I'll tell you because I know I usually clam up and I don't talk very much. But I'll tell you two stories. One is which my dad talks about in the book, but which I knew when Stephanie Tubbs Jones passed. And at the time Barack Obama was still Senator Obama. And Stephanie had been a real proponent of Hillary Clinton. She had broken away from the Black Caucus in her support for Hillary Clinton versus the Black Caucus who had basically said that they wanted Barack Obama. So when Stephanie passed away from brain aneurysm on the day as Senator Obama was there along with Senator Clinton and former president Bill Clinton, John Kasich, so many other dignitaries and each were eulogizing Stephanie. So at the time, my dad was 83 years old and he got up and was getting ready to eulogize Stephanie. But he turned for a moment and looked behind him where Senator Obama was and he turned to him and he Said Senator Obama, I am 83 years old, and never in my lifetime did I think I would see a qualified African American to run for the highest office in the nation. Senator Obama got up and he hugged my father and he whispered something in his ear. So the memorial service, the funeral continued, and at the end of it, my father came back over to my mother, myself, our family. And I said to my father, daddy, what did Senator Obama say to you? And he said. He said to me, I just want you to know that I know I would not be here if it were not for you and your brother. And he said. And I said to him, thank you. And he said to me, no, thank you. And so on that level, we see the impact of Carl Stokes and Louis Stokes with a man who became our first African American president. But then, in the same token, I see Zach Reed, Jeff Johnson, even the mayor were all inspired by what my father did and my uncle. And up until several months before my father passed away, he was over at a school in Shaker, at a high school, talking with about five young men who were putting a film together about Carl Stokes and racism. And my father had gone over there to sit with them and talk about racism in America and the legacy of Carl Stokes and spent several hours with them. He always wanted to learn from young people, and he wanted them to learn from him. He never thought of himself as above anybody. He always cherished and embraced the ability to exchange ideas and to inspire younger people, hoping that that one person, that something resonated and would spur someone else, a young person, to do it. My father. I tell a story. My father took me. My father used to be on the Forest City board of Directors, and of course, they were responsible for the Barclays center in Brooklyn, New York. And so when the Barclays center was opening, the opening night was Jay Z performing. So my father called me and he said, do you want to go see Jay Z perform at the Barclays Center? And he said, because it's opening night and. And I can take you. So I said, oh, yeah, sure. Okay, I'll go see Jay Z. So I asked my younger daughter, who is a beyond Jay Z fan, Nikki. So she said, yes, yes. So anyway, Nikki and I are at the Barclays Center. My dad was flying in from Cleveland. I met him in there. And everybody else is dressed like you would be for a Jay Z concert. So my father comes in with the expression clean to the bone, suit, tie, every, you know, pocket square, matching, immaculate. So we go down and we sit there and Jay Z performs. And the you know, crowd's going crazy, and we're dancing, and my father's still sitting and talking to his fellow board members. So. So anyway, the concert ends, we walk up to the top of the steps, and all of a sudden my father just starts dancing because Jay Z's still performing. So my father's doing whatever this dance is that, you know, is from 1960, but still with it, still energized by being around young people and what's happening and always wanting to be up to date. And then we get in the car, and it was so funny. He turns to my daughter Nikki, and he's says, you know, talking about Jay Z. He can't really sing. He's no Duke Ellington. But, you know, just. It was just one slice of my dad's appreciation for every generation and wanting to inspire every generation and to be inspired by. By it. And I think that there are plenty of Lou Stokes. Lou Stokes and plenty of Carl Stokes running around who are interested in politics and the law and being. And being people who inspire, go on and inspire others. So I think it continues generation after generation after generation with the Stokes brothers, the foundation that they laid.
Christine Hickey [00:37:52] So we're a little over. Okay, but do you have anything else that you would like to talk about? I mean, I had- I think you talked a little bit about what you feel your father's greatest accomplishment was. I think that's in there a little bit. But.
Lori Stokes [00:44:16] Well, I'll tell you the one thing that he thinks. I think what he thinks. And. And there are so many, many. You know, you can always read a bio on either one. But I think there are two things that stand out. One is personal, and the other is professional. On the personal end, I think it is his love of family. He is well documented. The love that he had for his mother, who sacrificed and did everything on the son, for her boys. But I think he also had a great love story with my mother. He had been previously married. He had three young children, and he had custody of his children in 1960, 1959, which was unusual for a man to have custody of his children, but he adored them, even not being able to have the benefit of knowing how to raise. He played. When you talk to my brother, he played ball with my brother. He took him to the baseball games. They had a beautiful life together with both of my sisters. He was hands on with his. With his kids, and certainly with me. He and I shared a very unique, very, very, very special relationship. But when he married my mother, who was 13 years younger than him, and all of a sudden, had this instant family of little children and raised them. He always made it so clear how appreciative he was that she raised these children as if they were her own. And I came two years after they married in 1962, and as a family unit, all of us together, led by my mother, so that he could run for Congress, so he could spend so much time in Washington. Because initially he moved to Washington two years before we did. And then when he knew he was going to be reelected, we all collectively moved. And so even when he. I was his care provider, once he became ill In June of 2015, he had asked that I would take care of him. And we were. One day he was. By this time, it was perhaps maybe two weeks before he passed, and he was up at all hours of the night. He could never sleep. And we would have these conversations about any and everything. And one day he said that he had never thought about being in this situation because he was so busy living. And then he said to me, you know what I'm going to miss the most? And I said, no, Daddy. What? And he said, my family. He said, I have a wonderful family. And so I think that that's one important thing that people really should know, aside from his love of God, of the law of service, was the love he had for his family. On a professional level, he has often. On a professional level, he has spoken about. He felt his greatest accomplishment was the legislation that he was able to get on behalf of minorities when it came to health care, because he felt it was so disproportionate, the care that African Americans got in this country. And he felt as if so much of his work on Capitol Hill was to ensure that they got the proper doctors and access to health care. Even up until the year he died, he was working on the different treatment for Caucasian men versus Black men when it came to colon cancer, and that the treatment needed to be different. So almost up until the end, he still was working on making sure that minorities were afforded the same health care that mainstream America was getting. And one of the fruits of that labor was having a building named after him on the campus of nih. He spoke about when he was taking a tour of it, and there was a Black Mason who was putting the bricks in place. And my father was introduced to this man, and he said, do you know who this person is? And the mason said, nah, I don't know who he is. He said, this is Congressman Stokes. This is who the building's named after. And when my father looked at this man, he said, I didn't know which one was prouder, him or me. And he turned to my father and he said, congressman, I'm going to make sure that each brick is straight, and if it isn't, we're going to straighten it. So I think he was. There's a picture of him looking at the plaque on the side of the building of NIH Laboratory, Building Number one. No, there's a picture of him looking at the plaque that's on his Building, Building 50, Louis Stokes Laboratory. And he's got his glasses off and he's crying, because to him, that was kind of the crescendo of it all and one of the biggest thank yous that he could have ever had from his service to the nation.
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