All interviews

Isaac Greber interview, 2017

Abstract

Isaac Greber, an academic, lived in Moreland for a few years. He was instrumental in the creation of the Moreland Assocation. He discusses the importance of the Moreland community in his life, even after moving out of the area. He discusses the need for the Moreland Association.

Error loading player: No playable sources found

Interviewee

Greber, Isaac (interviewee)

Interviewer

Lewis, Kamla (interviewer)

Project

Moreland History Project

Date

2017

Document Type

Oral History

Duration

34 minutes

Recommended Citation

"Isaac Greber interview, 2017" (2017). Cleveland Regional Oral History Collection. Interview 904003.
https://engagedscholarship.csuohio.edu/crohc000/1138

Related Resources

Moreland History @ Cleveland Voices

Transcript

Kamla Lewis [00:00:01] Good afternoon.

Isaac Greber [00:00:02] My name is Good afternoon to you.

Kamla Lewis [00:00:04] Good afternoon. I am with Isaac Greber this morning- This afternoon. And I wanted to start by asking you, Isaac, were you born in Shaker Heights or did you move here?

Isaac Greber [00:00:18] I was born in Chelm, Poland. I moved to Shaker Heights from Boston, where I got my doctorate at MIT. Came here right after that.

Kamla Lewis [00:00:31] And what brought you to Shaker Heights?

Isaac Greber [00:00:34] Well, first of all, I came here because I became a member of, at that time, Case Institute of Technology faculty. I knew about Shaker Heights. I’d heard about it a good deal. And so when I was looking for a place to live, I looked at Shaker Heights as one of my early choices. Primarily having heard, even though I did not have children, I heard about its good school system.

Kamla Lewis [00:01:02] And as an academic, that was important to you?

Isaac Greber [00:01:06] Yes, not only as an academic, as a possible parent and eventually a parent.

Kamla Lewis [00:01:13] And what year was this?

Isaac Greber [00:01:17] I came to Case at the end of 1959. I’m not sure whether the first place an apartment we lived in in a few months in 1959 was Cleveland or Shaker Heights. It was at the end of South Moreland. And we quickly found out that we were used to living in houses, even though I grew up in the tenements of the Bronx. And so we started looking for a house and we moved to Ashby road, which becomes 154th street in the middle of the block.

Kamla Lewis [00:02:06] Why did you choose Ashby?

Isaac Greber [00:02:09] We didn’t choose Ashby as this particular location. We were looking for places. And we thought that moving into a two family house, and preferably one in which the landlord lived, was probably a nice thing for our personalities. And we wanted room, and we could get a lot more room in a two family house than we could in a rental apartment. So we looked for that.

Kamla Lewis [00:02:42] Now you say we-

Isaac Greber [00:02:43] My wife and I.

Kamla Lewis [00:02:42] And was your wife from this area or also from Boston?

Isaac Greber [00:02:46] Neither. We both were in school at Boston. She was at Harvard studying mathematics, and she grew up near New Haven, Connecticut.

Kamla Lewis [00:03:00] And so how did you get involved with the neighborhood?

Isaac Greber [00:03:08] It was really very easy. We immediately became friends with our landlord. And after we moved to where we live now, we remained friends with them throughout their lives. That was an immediate good relationship. And there were some interesting people in the block. I don’t remember all of them, but I remember one of them had a moose head in front of his house and that attracted me to him. And then he had music played by cellos and violas that didn’t sound like any other music I’d ever heard played by those instruments. And I was just delighted. I’ve since learned to play that kind of crazy music myself.

Kamla Lewis [00:04:01] Does this crazy music have a name?

Isaac Greber [00:04:03] No.

Kamla Lewis [00:04:05] And so how was it that you were hearing the music? Did people frequently go to each other’s homes at this time?

Isaac Greber [00:04:14] I walk in the neighborhood. We shopped a little on the corner. I went to the barber shop around the corner, went to the drugstore on the corner. And I like walking, walking around the block and talking to people. And he was interesting. So that was it. Later I wound up with a lot more activity with the neighborhood Once the Moreland association got started and I became friends with the Adamsons. And we’ve become almost a an extended family with the Adamsons ever since.

Kamla Lewis [00:04:56] Were they also living in the neighborhood?

Isaac Greber [00:04:58] They were living on Milverton.

Kamla Lewis [00:05:01] And going back a bit, you mentioned that you would walk to the drugstore, to the grocery store. So this was on what street were those amenities?

Isaac Greber [00:05:09] Well, these were on Kinsman Road. So very natural thing to do. I also found it very good that I could walk to the train.

Kamla Lewis [00:05:22] And so did you use the train to go down to Case at the time?

Isaac Greber [00:05:27] Some of the time I did. I like doing that. Unfortunately, there isn’t a direct line. I had to change the Shaker Square. And if there were direct line, I would have used it all the time.

Kamla Lewis [00:05:39] I also love taking the train. So when did the Moreland Association form?

Isaac Greber [00:05:46] I don’t remember the exact year, but roughly 1961. I know that we moved out when we got a house, when my wife became pregnant with our second child. First child was born on Ashby Road. No, both of our children like to say they were born at McDonald’s, which means they were born at McDonald’s house. So we had our first. So after, when my wife was pregnant with the second house, we decided that we would like to have a house of our own. And so we moved into the Lomond area.

Kamla Lewis [00:06:35] So around ’61 the association got formed. And you said you were familiar with some of the people who were involved in that and that’s how you got involved?

Isaac Greber [00:06:46] No, I was one of the people who helped get it involved. And it was a very, very difficult time. The neighborhood when we moved into it was mostly a white neighborhood with a couple of- I think the nonwhite people were on the Cleveland part of it because Ashby Road became 154th Street. My Moosehead person was one of those. I just loved that Moosehead guy. Anyway, it was a very difficult one and the real estate agents were trying very hard to get people to move - white people - to move out of the neighborhood and make money in the exchanges of sales. They were calling up not only owners of houses, they were also calling up renters and saying, would you like to move? And giving reasons why other people were moving. Another part of this was on weekends, particularly on Sundays, they would have cars driving up and down the street, looking purposely disreputable, making noise, beat-up cars and so on, trying to make the place unattractive so that white families would move out. Obviously, something had to be done, and basically the Moreland Association was formed to try to preserve an integrated neighborhood.

Kamla Lewis [00:08:39] Now, I know that there is a similar history in the Ludlow neighborhood, which came first.

Isaac Greber [00:08:46] Ludlow came first and did not have the same kind of activity.

Kamla Lewis [00:08:51] Do you want to explain a little bit more?

Isaac Greber [00:08:56] I don’t know the reasons why the Ludlow development of integration had a quite different and very cooperative and peaceful character, but it was quite different from what I saw in the Moreland one. Certainly what I saw on Ashby Road, that it was simply people were moving, promoting it. And it was one of the places that we looked at when we were looking for a house and we couldn’t find one that was large enough that we wanted. We wound up in Lomond. But I don’t know why it was different. I think it’s an accident of the people who were there who worked in a quiet but proactive way to try to make a good neighborhood. I knew at least one family who worked at NASA who lived in the Ludlow area. So there were things that were very attractive about that area as a good community that I was very comfortable with. Moreland, I think, was a little bit less affluent than the group in Ludlow, though, I’m not absolutely sure, but it was a much. I was going to say less pleasant. It was very unpleasant time to be there.

Kamla Lewis [00:10:53] And so how, as an individual, what spurred you to get involved and what did you think you could make a difference?

Isaac Greber [00:11:05] As an individual? I felt very strongly that, that an integrated neighborhood is something in which my children should learn to live. I felt very strongly about this for years and years. It didn’t take coming to Shaker Heights for this. You don’t learn this at the age of 30. You learn it much earlier. I like the idea. I despised the attempt that the real estate agents were going through. And so there was no question in my mind about wanting to help, informing a neighborhood that preserved a good area.

Kamla Lewis [00:11:52] So can you tell us what those conversations were like? I mean, you were a renter in the neighborhood. You were even looking at potentially moving out, what was it that made people like you? What was your conversation with your neighbors to say, let’s form an association and find this? Was it looking at a model from elsewhere or did the idea come-

Isaac Greber [00:12:13] No, no. The conversation started with what’s going on in this community. And it led to the idea not of an association at all. It led to other things that would be helpful in the area. One of the early things before we were talking about an association was for pushing for a good playground in the area. So we started asking the city about this, which was formed. So it was conversation about what kinds of things would be useful for. For the community. And then eventually the idea that an organization would be useful in helping to promote not just the question of integration, but to keep up the development of a pleasant community.

Kamla Lewis [00:13:12] You mentioned that one of the things that you guys felt would be helpful to stabilize and improve the neighborhood was a playground. And were you successful?

Isaac Greber [00:13:21] Yes. Oh, yes.

Kamla Lewis [00:13:23] And is that where the Ashby playground is now?

Isaac Greber [00:13:29] I’m not sure. It probably is where the Ashby playground is now. It was nice to get that started simply by good conversation between residents of the community and the city.

Kamla Lewis [00:13:44] And why? What were the other things that you guys felt were going to be important for the association to work on? What were the types of issues?

Isaac Greber [00:13:56] Well, we thought that good neighborly communication was one. And one of the things that was done rather early in the beginning of the association was to establish a newsletter. And I was the editor of the newsletter just to keep people informed about the activities going on in the area.

Kamla Lewis [00:14:28] And how did you get the newsletter out to people in those days?

Isaac Greber [00:14:32] I’m sorry?

Kamla Lewis [00:14:33] How did you get the newsletter out to all the Moreland residents in those days?

Isaac Greber [00:14:37] Carrying them around.

Kamla Lewis [00:14:39] So Moreland is quite a large neighborhood. It’s got a number of streets and it’s got a northern and a southern part. Were both parts south and north of Van Aken?

Isaac Greber [00:14:52] Yes, definitely. And I actually, I knew from case people on the northern end on the southern end. I lived on the northern end, and I knew faculty members on the southern end.

Kamla Lewis [00:15:13] How did people. Since it is quite a geography, how did people get to know. Was there a central gathering place that people in Moreland would go to? Was the school the central place?

Isaac Greber [00:15:25] Well, the school is always the central place. The schools have this function, I think, all over the country as being a central place of people to gather. So our first meeting was at the school.

Kamla Lewis [00:15:40] And at that time, was there any discussion about the closing of the school? Was that much later?

Isaac Greber [00:15:52] I didn’t understand the question.

Kamla Lewis [00:15:54] The Moreland School eventually closed.

Isaac Greber [00:15:56] Yeah.

Kamla Lewis [00:15:57] Was there any talk at this time about the closing of a school or-

Isaac Greber [00:16:01] No school closings much later.

Kamla Lewis [00:16:06] And so as the editor of the newsletter, what were some of the issues and activities that you wanted Moreland residents to be aware of at the time?

Isaac Greber [00:16:17] You’re asking me more than my memory will allow. I’m sorry.

Kamla Lewis [00:16:24] Not a problem. I’m always surprised what people do remember, actually. So how the association forms and one of the key issues is integration. Can you tell me some of the things that the association tackled to try and address this issue and how successful you think they were?

Isaac Greber [00:16:53] I think that the things that appeared in the newsletter and appeared in the conversations had much more to do with the things in the quality of the neighborhood rather than directly with the questions of integration. I think there was very little, to me, surprisingly little, direct discussion of black white relationships that it took some minor part of the discussion. And more of the discussion had to do with the. The features of the neighborhood, activities of the neighborhood, things going on. I don’t think this was any reasons, though it may have been, that people were less comfortable about being as direct about the integration as. As I’ve seen in the Lomond association, which is very direct.

Kamla Lewis [00:18:22] And was there any linkage between neighborhood associations at that time?

Isaac Greber [00:18:26] No, no, no. The Lomond Association hadn’t been formed.

Kamla Lewis [00:18:30] For example, the Ludlow Association.

Isaac Greber [00:18:32] There wasn’t much link with the Ludlow. And at least at that time, after all, I was not in it all that long before we moved out.

Kamla Lewis [00:18:43] So you said a lot was focused on highlighting the features of the neighborhood.

Isaac Greber [00:18:47] That’s correct.

Kamla Lewis [00:18:48] Would you describe for us how that neighborhood felt to you at the time and what people were most proud of?

Isaac Greber [00:19:08] I don’t think there was a question of pride in it. There were things that people were doing that were interesting to people. There was someone who was running a program aimed at children in one of the radio stations, Mr. Jingeling, I think it is, who lived on Ashby Road. So, again, you had a number of interesting people around, including yourself. And I can’t go back and start to remember the details of particular activities, but we would point out things that people were doing that that were interesting. There wasn’t a lot of community activity that I know of that is a regular thing in the Lomond association, at least at the time I was there. I’ve been very pleased to see what has happened with the Moreland Association. It’s now a very active one with wonderful people in it. And I’m glad that I helped in the process of getting it started. But it wasn’t the wonderful association that it is now.

Kamla Lewis [00:20:42] It’s got to start somewhere. So in the ’60s, were there block parties? I mean, Shaker neighborhood associations are known for their block parties. Were there- Was that a feature at the time?

Isaac Greber [00:20:59] There was a block party. I don’t remember there being anything that was regular. And again, I wasn’t around long enough for it to be regular. I moved out of it in 1963. So we’re talking about really something like a one year period of time.

Kamla Lewis [00:21:18] Okay. And one of the other people that we’ve interviewed mentioned that the Memorial Day Parade, when they were growing up in the neighborhood, was not on Van Aken as it is today, that it would go up Chagrin Boulevard. Did you ever remember participating or going to the Memorial Day Parade?

Isaac Greber [00:21:42] I didn’t go to one until after. Till sometime later when it had almost its current route.

Kamla Lewis [00:21:50] Okay. Because we’ve been trying to find out what the rest of the route was and what you mentioned that you would walk to a lot of features. What were the sort of activities in the broader Shaker area that you participated in as a. A resident in the ’60s? Shaker Town Center was quite different at that time. What was there? Did you use it much?

Isaac Greber [00:22:19] Actually, no. I think my close. I had a nice close association with the Moreland people and my neighbors. And I think that my association at that time with Shaker Heights in general was very limited. It was for minor grocery shopping. And again, we tried to do much of our shopping within walking distance and was there.

Kamla Lewis [00:23:02] And what about downtown Cleveland? Was that somewhere.

Isaac Greber [00:23:05] Pardon me, Downtown Cleveland.

Kamla Lewis [00:23:07] Was that somewhere you and your wife would have in the evenings?

Isaac Greber [00:23:08] No, very definitely. We like the city. We went downtown a great deal and so we would do that rather than Shaker Heights at the time. However, Shaker Heights did have a movie theater that was closer. We went to that one and we used the library. The library was always something that was important to us and that was right away, I guess. I don’t that so much part of my life. I don’t think of that as a special activity. From my early elementary school days, library has been part of home. So I always think of it that way.

Kamla Lewis [00:23:55] And what sort of things would be your activities in downtown Cleveland? What did people go and see and do then?

Isaac Greber [00:24:04] Well, we did shopping in downtown Cleveland. I did go to the Cleveland Public Library. I am a friend of the Cleveland Public Library now. We looked at the waterfront. We wander around. We went to restaurants. The downtown area of almost every place that we’ve lived has been part of our lives and remains true. Though the department stores aren’t there anymore. I wish they were.

Kamla Lewis [00:24:46] What was the waterfront like at that time?

Isaac Greber [00:24:51] The waterfront has never been. I’m going to put in my plug. The waterfront is not what it should be. I’d like to see the waterfront be a place where people gather and use. And I think there should be much, much more effort in having the waterfront be part of the lifestyle of the city. We have a wonderful waterfront, a. A magnificently interesting river that would be a wonderful place to walk along that river.

Kamla Lewis [00:25:23] Well, the Metroparks are certainly.

Isaac Greber [00:25:25] The Metroparks are great. The Metroparks, if you think of things that I’ve done all through it from early on, the Metroparks certainly with things that we’ve wandered through, picnicked and took our dogs through and continue to.

Kamla Lewis [00:25:45] And you mentioned that Ashby is a street that starts in one city and continues into Cleveland. So it’s a shared street, changes name. Was the border pretty much just visible to people? Did people relate across neighbors from the Cleveland side and the Shaker side?

Isaac Greber [00:26:06] It was one street we just walked. As I said, the shopping wasn’t that I was talking about. The casual shopping was in Cleveland. You didn’t notice it. When you got to the end of the block, you saw that the sign said 154th Street. The sign on the other side of the block said Ashby. And that’s about all if it was one street.

Kamla Lewis [00:26:30] Now, you mentioned, mentioned that you worked at Case. Your wife is also an academic, correct?

Isaac Greber [00:26:37] She was the curator of archaeology at the Cleveland Museum of Natural History and also an associate professor at Case.

Kamla Lewis [00:26:49] And were there a lot of people associated with the University Circle institutions like the university and the Natural History Museum living in Shaker at that time?

Isaac Greber [00:27:04] Well, the only one I remember is Art Benade, who was on, who lived on one of these streets on the south end of Moreland. Yeah, there were other people in Shaker, but not in that area.

Kamla Lewis [00:27:31] And you mentioned that in around ’63, you moved to the Lomond neighborhood. And how was that different or the same to you?

Isaac Greber [00:27:44] Bigger houses, little more affluent? I had the same kind of interactions as I had immediately with the Lomond people that I did in Ashby. I immediately became friends with my neighbors on both sides. I’m still very close friends with my neighbors on both sides, but they’re different people.

Kamla Lewis [00:28:11] Maybe it says more about you, Isaac.

Isaac Greber [00:28:18] I live in a community, really a neighborhood, and I’m very fortunate to be living in that neighborhood. We are close to each other, we help each other, we visit each other, and it’s really a wonderful one. And my daughters who do not live here realize it when they come and realize what this has meant to me, particularly after my wife died, that I have a neighborhood I can rest on.

Kamla Lewis [00:28:57] And as someone who lives in the same neighborhood as you and has benefited from your work, it’s much appreciated. Did you. You mention that at the time when you helped for the Moreland Association, Lomond did not have an association. Were you also instrumental in starting the Lomond Association?

Isaac Greber [00:29:17] Yes. And became editor of their newspaper as well? Well, I’ve been involved in academic newsletter things for a long time, starting with elementary school. So it’s nothing new.

Kamla Lewis [00:29:35] And we are. You were now living in the Lomond neighborhood when the Moreland School closed. Did you follow that discussion at all? Can you recall what the. What were the sort of issues and how people felt at the time?

Isaac Greber [00:29:57] The arguments were that the elementary school population was going down. My wife and I had quite a different attitude towards it. We assumed that that was cyclic, that the population, the elementary school population would grow again and that after a while people would want to have additional elementary schools. So we thought it was thinking too much in the short term and not in the long term. I’ve not been involved in the discussions that are serious with people who are involved in making decisions about this. So my conversations have been much more at the casual level. My wife and I have always been very strong supporters of the school system, and I’ve helped work on questions of campaigning for school levies. And as I say, the reputation of Shaker Heights schools was a primary reason that we moved into Shaker Heights. From the beginning. Both of our children went through all the Shaker schools. One of the nice things about living where we do now is that they could walk to school. Since we live at the end of the school block.

Kamla Lewis [00:31:46] That certainly is true. Were there any other anecdotes or memories from those early years in Shaker that you’d like to share?

Isaac Greber [00:32:06] Well, I have. If I think of those of the time in Moreland, my major memories are the fact that I made friends who continue to be friends all my life, that my local block, that one block, Ashby 154th street, was one in which I had lots of nice conversations. That our first daughter was born, that I learned to play the cello, and then the terrible time of the activity of the real estate companies in trying to break up a good neighborhood. It was a good neighborhood, and I think it continued to be a good neighborhood despite what were really outrageous efforts.

Kamla Lewis [00:33:31] Thank you very much for spending some time with us and especially for sharing your perspectives on that period of time. Thank you.

Isaac Greber [00:33:44] Good to talk with you.