Abstract
George Forbes was born in Memphis, Tennessee. Forbes has owned a law firm in Cleveland since 1971. He was a city councilman from 1963-1989 and served as the first black council president during his last eighteen years in office. Forbes was also president of the Cleveland NAACP. This 2017 interview was collected as part of a yearlong, community-wide commemoration of the 50th anniversary of Carl Stokes' election as mayor of Cleveland.
Loading...
Interviewee
Forbes, George L. (interviewee)
Interviewer
Perry, Dee (interviewer)
Project
Stokes: Honoring the Past, Inspiring the Future
Date
2017
Document Type
Oral History
Duration
42 minutes
Recommended Citation
"George L. Forbes interview, 2017 (2 of 2)" (2017). Cleveland Regional Oral History Collection. Interview 501018.
https://engagedscholarship.csuohio.edu/crohc000/1204
Transcript
Dee Perry [00:00:01] Dee Perry here with George Forbes at Tri-C Metro campus for the Stokes Commemoration Project. And I want to start, George, with just having you spell your first and last name for somebody who may be editing and not know.
George L. Forbes [00:00:17] George L. Forbes. That’s G E,O,R,G,E. L capital, F,O,R,B,E,S. Forbes, out of Memphis.
Dee Perry [00:00:28] I like it. So I want to start by asking, what may seem obvious, but for someone who doesn’t know, why did Carl Stokes 1965 and 1967 runs for mayor of Cleveland draw national attention?
George L. Forbes [00:00:46] Well, because Carl ran for mayor because no one had done it before. I think about five or six years before, there was a Black minister in Cleveland who ran for mayor, and no one took that seriously. And that implanted the seed that maybe this thing can work. Carl was in the legislature, and there was a group of us in politics council, and he did the numbers, and he decided that a Black could win and that he could win, particularly he could win. And he ran the first time, and it came up short, a couple of thousand. And the second time, when he ran ’67, he won. But he knew exactly where the votes were that he could get out of the white precincts. He knew how many votes he could get out of the Black precinct. And through a series of meetings with. With various people in the city of Cleveland, he put it together, and that’s how he was successful.
Dee Perry [00:01:52] And during both of those runs, the Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. came to Cleveland to support it. What was his interest in the election?
George L. Forbes [00:02:04] Well, you had the Southern Christian Leadership Conference, who headed it, and Dr. King was going all over the country employing Blacks to. To vote and to take advantage of the system. And what he did, he would go in and help register. I can remember him coming to Cleveland. He had a big tractor trailer, and on the trailer part, he had a band called the Operation Breadbasket Band with Ben Branch. And they would go to shopping centers, 40th and Woodland. They would go to 123rd and Superior, and they would start playing, and he would come out and he would speak and implore people to go register to vote so that we could win these elections. He did that all over the country, but specifically during the 67 campaign, he was in and out of Cleveland all the time.
Dee Perry [00:03:07] I wanted to have you talk about the strategy that you used to win your first elected office in Cleveland City Council. How did you. What was your way of approaching that?
George L. Forbes [00:03:23] There was about 11 people running that year in the ward, and there was a lady running by the name of Ann Brown, very smart. Intelligent woman. And Ann was a Republican. There was a man by the name of Al Brown, and Al Brown was a union leader, Weldon Wisham, and quite a few of us. So you had to figure out, how do you come into the top two? I was the only one who was a lawyer. I was a young lawyer, young family. I think I had one kid at that particular time. And we would have a series of meetings. Ike Thompson was the ward leader. And I knew that if I could come in second, I could probably win the election, the general election. So we had meetings downtown. I remember Al Brown wanted to participate in the meetings. And I knew that Ann Brown was going to come in first or second because she was well known. Her husband was a prominent artist in town. So Ann and Al Brown. But we needed somebody to talk about Ann Brown, and I didn’t want to do it. So Al Brown insisted that he would be the one to talk about her, let everybody know about her. And he did. And as a result, he came in last. And that’s- And so the two of us came in together, she and I. So when we went into the general election, and I knew that Black people, basically Democrats, and this was a working war, people moving in. And after a series of meetings, at the election, on the election day, general election day, everybody had poll workers. Everybody passed out your literature. But I had one piece of literature, very simple, very plain. It said, your choice on election day. George Forbes, Democrat, and Brown, Republican. And as a consequence, the people in that war, those Black people, followed the Democratic line. And that was the strategy from the very beginning. We knew we had to make it known that she was a Republican. Yeah. In addition. But during the course of the campaign, I was. I think I was about 32 years old. I had just finished law school, had one child, and I can remember Mary and I would go knock on doors, and we’d- You know. And Black people were glad to see a young lawyer with my, with my child in the stroller and my wife knocking on doors. And we did that. And I knocked on every door. Mary didn’t, but I knocked on every door in that ward, talking about. I wanted to get into counseling, things that I proposed to do. But it was the image of the child, my wife and myself doing that that caught the attention of the people in that 27th Ward.
Dee Perry [00:06:35] After a few years in City Council, you decided to run in the primary for the newly created 21st congressional district. Why did you want to do that, and how did you approach that? Did you use the same strategy?
George L. Forbes [00:06:50] No, I didn’t use the same strategy because I got beat. Well, they had- Governor Rhodes and Carl Stokes had gotten together and had just created the 21st district, and that was basically a Black district. And Rhodes did that because of the relationship he had with Carl. They were friends. Well, everybody wanted to be the congressman. I think it was about nine or 10 of us that ran. And I figured if you had that many, I stood just as good a chance as anybody else of winning. So I. I went in and I convinced Lou that he couldn’t win, that he couldn’t beat me because I was well known. And Lou tells a story that I almost convinced him of that Carl said, are you crazy? But it was the creation of the district we were just running first time. Everybody was running in it, and Carl had just won the mayor’s job. So the Stokes name was known throughout the, throughout the country, but particularly here in Cleveland. And Lou beat all of us, and it was good. He was a great congressman.
Dee Perry [00:08:10] Did you see what his political machinery was? I mean, how did he approach it? Did he use the same people that Carl used?
George L. Forbes [00:08:21] Lou Stokes didn’t have any machine. Lou Stokes, probably the worst politician you ever wanted to meet. Carl had the machine. All Lou had to do was go out and go to meetings and campaign. But Carl had City Hall. Carl had just finished the mayor’s race, and all of those people were there ready to go and campaign, including me. And Pinckney did the campaign. But it was. The machine was Carl Stokes machine, and it stayed his machine. But all Lou had to do was go out and he didn’t have to knock on doors, go to churches and get people together so we can win this race and go to Washington and get things for the Black community.
Dee Perry [00:09:03] What kind of ally did Lou Stokes turn out to be as a congressman? I mean, an ally for the city of Cleveland.
George L. Forbes [00:09:14] He was. He was a man of impeccable character. And when I said that Lew didn’t have a machine, I didn’t mean that in an insulting way, because that wasn’t his strength. His strength was to go to D.C. and look out for Blacks, not just here in Cleveland, but all over the country. And wherever you go, you’ll find buildings and hospitals named after Lou Stokes for the things that he had done throughout the country. We created the 21st district caucus. And when Carl went to New York, Lew became head of the caucus. And it really wasn’t his forte. It really wasn’t his. The politics of things wasn’t his forte. So Arnold ended up heading to caucus, but he Was a guy that could just could deal with presidents, he could deal with the speakers of the house, and he could get things, bring them back to Cleveland. You look out, you see things all over town that he did. But his main forte was making sure that Blacks benefited from the system throughout the country. But a man of impeccable character.
Dee Perry [00:10:29] Tell me more about the 21st District Congressional Caucus. What was the purpose of it? What did it do?
George L. Forbes [00:10:38] Carl had Charlie Carr. Charlie Carr is senior politician in the Black community. He was a councilman in the 11th Ward. And remember, Carl had Lou. No, Carl had Charlie Carr and myself said, go out and organize these Black people into groups so that we can have, when we need to get people elected, whether Black or white, we can make sure that they own the polls to get these jobs so that Black folks can benefit from it. And that was his idea that we got to have an organization that would compete with the Democratic Party, the Republican Party. And out of that came the 21st district caucus. Now, it wasn’t always pleasant. Now it was when Carl went to New York. Lou became the head of it, but it wasn’t his thing. So Arnold took it over. And Carl. Arnold is Arnold Pinckney. I’m sorry, Arnold Pinckney. Arnold took it over. And Arnold was a great mathematician. He knew how to do these kinds of things. But Carl told Lou that Arnold and I were probably trying to undermine him. But you have to understand that that’s the way politicians think. Okay? And. But we had a big meeting at the 21st District caucus and we had kind of a split. But Luke came back and we all got it, put it back together again. So that because the caucus was primarily important to the Black leadership, staying in office and getting things done for them. But he- But Carr came back to Cleveland. Caucus was functioning. Lou and Arnold and myself had made up and things was going well. But that was kind of the genesis of how the caucus came about and how it lasted for a while.
Dee Perry [00:12:45] And when you say make sure that Blacks had a chance at office, you mean locally?
George L. Forbes [00:12:54] Locally, Locally. When I went into council, it was six of us. And because of the leadership of the caucus and organizing people, it went up to 13 and it finally went to 17 out of a 33-member caucus council.
Dee Perry [00:13:24] You mentioned Arnold Pinckney and he- His name often comes up in connection with the Stokes brothers and just Cleveland politics in general. Explain more about who Arnold Pinckney was and what he did.
George L. Forbes [00:13:40] Arnold was. I guess it would remind you of Barack Obama being a community organizer before he got into the Presidency. And Arnold was an organizer. He took great, great pride in organizing campaigns. And Charlie White was a judge in Cleveland. And Arnold did his campaign to get him elected. And that was his forte, doing campaigns, Stokes campaign, these type of things and those kinds of things. And then he decided to run for the school board. And Arnold became, along with Bill Boyd, a member of the school board. And he subsequently became the president of the board for many years in making sure that Black kids get an education. But he was a guy that always organized these kinds of things in Black churches to make sure that people were there. And then he did. He came to city hall with Carl and he worked with the administration for a while. But that was his genesis, organizing things so that everything went well. And during campaign, creating additional offices, state representatives, so that Black folks could participate in the system.
Dee Perry [00:15:14] I want to talk a little bit more about Carl and Louis Stokes as politicians. How would you compare their leadership styles?
George L. Forbes [00:15:28] They were completely different. Carl was. Politics isn’t always what it appears to be on the surface. It’s a tough business, and you can go into it with a choirboy attitude and you’re going to be left at the altar. Carl understood that, and he knew how to get to the bottom of things. And it was not something that was to play with. And he got to the nitty gritty of it. And once he did that, you wanted to make sure that what was put in came out for the benefit of the careers of people. And it wasn’t that he was. Politics meant power to him. All right, it meant power to him. Politics to Lou meant a statesman speaking on the floor of Congress and dealing with various institutions so that out of that would come progress for everybody. Now, much of what Carl did cleared the Waterloo. Okay, he cleared the wafer, Lou. He didn’t care about speaking. Great speaker, but he understood how you make. You mix the apple with the apple cider and you got cold beer. All right, I’m making it that plain to you? Okay.
Dee Perry [00:17:05] Carl?
George L. Forbes [00:17:06] Longevity that, Lou, you know, just when you mentioned that to me, it just reminded me of Barack Obama and how the poor man catches so much hell for. Because he was. I was thinking this morning, things that ordinarily would be simple for any other president to do, he can’t do them. It couldn’t do them because of a stubborn Congress. And I remember the majority leader said one night that his job is make sure this man does not get elected. And he meant that, okay, Obama got elected. But he said, my job is to make sure this man does not get elected. And that’s. But because Obama was Black. Let’s don’t kid ourselves. They were determined he wasn’t going to do it. Stokes was the first Black mayor in the United States, with the exception of some little town in Mississippi. And he did two years and he did two more. And the man was whipped. The man was tired. So he decided he would not run again. He went to New York and got involved in television, anchorman and those kind of things. And as you look, if you make a comparison with first Black mayor, first Black president, they went through some of the very same things. And that was one of the reasons why he stood the column. Find something else to do. You understand what I’m saying to you?
Dee Perry [00:18:45] I- I do, but I wanted to follow up with the fact that Lou Stokes was the first Black congressman from Ohio. And, and I wonder if it was a different set of realities that he was dealing with.
George L. Forbes [00:19:03] I don’t want to- I don’t want to minimize- I don’t want to minimize Lou’s role. But without, and I think I can say this, without Carl Stokes, there would be no Lou Stokes. Okay? And this doesn’t have anything to do with the bloodline. It’s the nitty gritty of politics. Carl really wanted to be a congressman. Carl really wanted to be the congressman. And the district was created by Governor Rhodes for Carl to be in Congress. But at the same time that the district was created, the mayor’s race opened up. So he said, well, I can. Let me try this. So he became the mayor and consequently Lou became the congressman. But the district was open because of Carl’s relationship with Jim Rhodes. Okay. I’m not trying to minimize Lou Stokes performance and his ability, but it was the politics of the state at that time that got all of this rolling.
Dee Perry [00:20:16] And I was reading and Louis himself said that he didn’t want to be a congressman at first. He loved being a lawyer. But Carl talked him into it. Why do you think he stayed so long?
George L. Forbes [00:20:32] Stayed in Congress. Stay in Congress so long, good job. He’s. Nobody talks about him. It’s a very simple job. You know, Carl Stokes, they want to hang him, run him out of town. You know, folks on the west side all Lewis go to. Go to DC On a Sunday night and stay there for a week, come back home, nobody talking about him. It was a very simple job, easy job. You talked to the senators and everybody knew him, everybody loved him. So that’s why he stayed. No reason to leave.
Dee Perry [00:21:18] I’m thinking about something you said just a few minutes ago about all the things that were thrown at Carl Stokes as mayor. What did you see as some of the biggest challenges he was facing?
George L. Forbes [00:21:35] Well, bear in mind, I was in city hall. I was a council- I was a city councilman from Ward 27, and there was 33 of us. There were 10 Blacks and about 20, 23 whites. And it was a very, very split group. And it was. The racial thing was of top priority. Now, I got along with my colleagues, but here’s the first Black mayor in the country, and he was running the city, and he would do things that they didn’t like, and that tension was built. Now I’m there with my colleagues. Jim Stanton was president of council. Jim Stanton brought me into council. He brought me into council. Carl didn’t particularly care for Jim Stanton, and sometimes they had open splits. So you got to figure out, how do I survive in this? Stanton was my friend. Carl was my friend. But Carl would only consider you his friend as long as you do what he wanted you to do. So that is the atmosphere that we have. It’s no different, no different from what’s going on today in D.C., okay, but you learn how to mix, and you learn how to survive. You make things work, and they work out.
Dee Perry [00:23:19] Besides the split in council and really in the city, along racial lines, what were some other things? Was the economy a factor in the city and the country?
George L. Forbes [00:23:35] Well, you have to bear in mind that this is the ’60s, and the country’s undergoing. Evolution. I would say that in some areas, the country was undergoing revolutions. There was the rise of Black power, and you had the Ahmed Evans and Baxter Hills and those people who were saying, no, we want it now. We don’t want any postponement. And there was a group of white leaders. They formed a group called the Businessmen Interracial Group. And they saw Carl Stokes as the solution to the problem of Black people. We get him elected, then he can make sure that they stay home and those kind of things. Well, it didn’t work that way. Ahmed Evans, Harllel Jones had a group, young men, and some of these fellows would work and try to make sure that there was peace. But you had other groups who insisted that we don’t want any peace. So the interracial business group, they found that Carl couldn’t control what was going on because this wasn’t just a group of young people. This was something that was going on all over the country. Martin Luther King came here on the night of the election. Make sure that everybody participated in it. So it Wasn’t something that he could do. And I think they were kind of put off about that. You had the Glenville riots. And I remember that because I was there when it started. Ahmed Evans and his group was at the corner of Auburndale and Lakeview. And Carl had called me from New York to go see what I could do. And I went to talk to Ahmed about it and he was, they said, no, we’re not going to take it anymore. And as a consequence, the riots broke out in Glenville. We had Black preachers, Black businessmen walking the street with police trying to make sure that the town stayed safe. But it was, all of these things was going on then you got Dr. King all over the country. So there’s nothing that any one man could do. You did the best that you could.
Dee Perry [00:26:17] And I think at the same time the city was undergoing the same kinds of changes in the business structure. That is, it was a blue collar steel town or auto worker town and those kinds of businesses were changing and you were losing that manufacturing base and people trying to figure out what was next. Was that something that you were seeing?
George L. Forbes [00:26:49] No, this was, this was hardcore racism. Didn’t matter about Republic Steel or whether he was at Jones and Laughlin or Ford Motor Company. That wasn’t, they weren’t leaving at this particular time. This was hardcore racism. This was Black people who didn’t have jobs. And yet it’s not much different than you had young Black people saying that, hey man, no, no we won’t. Okay, we want our share. You see it with the groups today and it wasn’t a poverty thing. It wasn’t a poverty yet. Education at school said fine, but it wasn’t a poverty thing. It was the lack of participation in the system. And that always seemed to be what’s at the core. Even today, that’s at the core of it. Not being able to participate into the system.
Dee Perry [00:27:56] How did the things that Carl Stokes was able to do, how do you think that played out as a short term legacy? What kinds of things can you point to and say he did that and look at now and say, yeah, that’s still in effect as a long term legacy.
George L. Forbes [00:28:22] I don’t know whether you knew Carl Stewart, excuse me, but if you knew him, he was, he could charm the horns off a goody goat. There was no one greater than he was. He had a smile, he had a conversation. He, you know, he dealt with presidents, he dealt with governors, and there wasn’t too much that he could not do in a room with people. And it was that charisma that got him elected. He was a man who knew what to say and what not to say, and he knew how to charm an audience, and he didn’t make mistakes in saying the wrong thing. And you take that and you mix it with his understanding of government and of people, and it was just- I don’t think anybody else in Cleveland could have gotten elected mayor at the time except him. I remember Dick Hatcher came over to see us. Dick Hatcher was running for the mayor of Gary, Indiana, and was in my backyard and we cooked some barbecue and we were eating and talking, but it was as much. There was no way Hatchet could have gotten elected mayor of the city of Cleveland. Now, I didn’t never went to Gary, but it was a completely different city. But this man was the right man at the right time for the city of Cleveland. I previously told you that he could. He knew where the votes were. He knew that in precinct, for example, precinct T and ward 6 on the west side, that there was a group of Black folks that lived there. He had it all figured out. He knew that Joe McManamon lived on the east, on the west side, and he became the state director and he knew how many liberal whites lived over there. But it was the study that he did in people and in politics that made him successful on it. Nobody else could have done it.
Dee Perry [00:30:44] Do you think other people copied that strategy later and were able to have their own successes because of mechanisms that he used?
George L. Forbes [00:30:56] No, no, you follow your own. You follow your own guidelines. Arnold. I think Arnold. When Carl decided not to run again, Arnold ran and Arnold was not successful. But he could not have duplicated what Colin Stokes did. I ran when I was leaving city council, and I know good and well I couldn’t have done it. Okay, but it was. He was the one.
Dee Perry [00:31:26] What can you point to today and say that wouldn’t have happened without Carl Stokes?
George L. Forbes [00:31:36] Well, let me talk about the things that happened. The one thing that he understood. He understood that in order to be successful, don’t just depend upon politicians and elected officials. And what he did is- And that has been copied all over this country by Black officeholders. He went in and he organized the Black churches. He went in and he organized the Black churches, and they preached as much about Carl Stokes as they did Jesus Christ. Because Carl was real and this was a possibility that could happen. And much of his success was due to the fact that he organized the Black church and there were white ministers also. But that was something that was copied throughout the country. Office holders, office Seekers would come and ask how he would do it. And Odie Hoover, Theo Kavanagh. Those churches was constantly filled with that man coming in there saying that, I can do this, I need you to do this. And that was. They were primarily one of the reasons why he was elected, more so than elected officials. The first time around I- There was 10 of us, 13 of us in council. And you have to understand this man. You have to understand him. He was not something he played with. He met with us and said, I want you to support me. He really didn’t say, I want you. He said, almost, you better support me. Okay. And it was terrorism. And we did not. We did not. And it wasn’t because. It wasn’t because you didn’t want to. But if you knew him, it was the way that he put it, if you don’t support me, I’m going to whip you the next time around. And we didn’t. And that was one of the few things in public life that I’ve done that I always regretted that I did not support him the first time around. Well, and he lost. And he didn’t lose by that many votes. And I can’t say that had we supported him, he would have won. I can’t say that. But the next time around when he got ready to run again, the first stops he made was each one of our houses, said, I want you to support me. I said, I’ve been waiting two years for you to come and get me. And he was successful. Now, I said that about the public officials and politicians, but the preachers wasn’t like that. They embraced him from the very beginning and they stayed with him until he got to be the mayor.
Dee Perry [00:34:34] I also wanted to get a sense of how you worked with Lou Stokes too, because he kept coming up for re election and wondered if you were part of a? Part of his strategy for organizing this area?
George L. Forbes [00:34:52] Well, there was, I think that there was Carl, there was Louis, that was Arnold and myself. That was Charlie Carr and Jimmy Bell. That was kind of the mix of the meeting group that was with him. And there was other people too, don’t get me wrong. Jean Murrell Capers and Jolene Wiese and those things. But we kind of, we stayed together. Carl was very close with Charlie Carr. Charlie Carr was his mentor. Lou benefited from that. Lou really didn’t have to. You know, Lou was there, Lou was Lou. He kind of kept him. You know, he was a congressman. You know, congressmen don’t get out and go to ward club meeting with councilmen. But he was a great organizer and after he got to be elected, he, he, the caucus was there and he would come in and we’d all, we’d meet about once a month, once every three months. And then the Democratic Party had kind of cut Black people out of participation and Carl wasn’t on the scene. Then Lou challenged the Democratic Party and the, the party went from a county chairman to three co chairmen, Hugh Corrigan, Tony Garofoli and myself. And I think I stayed a county chairman for about eight, 10 years. But that was because of his insistence and his power that he had as a congressman. Because if Stokes says no, it wasn’t going to come to Cleveland. And that’s- We understood the value he had as the office that he held. He didn’t need to come down here with city council and that type of thing.
Dee Perry [00:36:54] Okay, I can think of a hundred other questions I want to ask you, but I thank you so much for the time you’ve taken to answer these and thank you so much for all you’ve done.
George L. Forbes [00:37:07] Every 20 years I think I come to try see and do a lecture, do a TV thing. Right?
Unknown speaker [00:37:13] Yeah. I have one question though, if you don’t mind me asking.
George L. Forbes [00:37:16] Sure.
Unknown speaker [00:37:17] You know, could you describe the feeling of Cleveland then? Not necessarily the politics, but Cleveland in general. What was it like to live in Cleveland at that time and maybe how has it changed over your lifetime? You’ve seen a lot of change, I believe. I know some has been good, some has been bad. But I wanted to know from your perspective, what was it like in Cleveland then to live in Cleveland?
George L. Forbes [00:37:46] I was in the steam room this morning and I was talking with Hilton Smith and we were talking about Cleveland, Cleveland now and Cleveland then sometimes. And this morning we were talking about some of the hopelessness that exists in our city now. And I don’t think I’m over exaggerating with the high crime rates and things like that. It creates a sense of hopelessness. Back then it was hope, hope you knew that tomorrow would be better. It’s not that it’s not going to be better now. And I think those other things that lead to this age and what have you. And we knew that our generation would be part of the answer. And I’ve talked about the racial thing, but on the other hand there was too many 23, 33 men and women meeting every day in committees who had to decide, are we going to build a stadium, are we going to build health centers for our people? And we did. And what we did is we made sure that there was a mixture. If you build a health center on the west side, you’d build a health center on the east side, and you built a stadium where everybody could come to it. So that was the. We always knew that we sat down in spite of what was going on in the city, if we sat down across the table and we were sincere and honest in what we were doing, that we could come out with a solution that would be best for the people of the city of Cleveland, including the businessmen. I remember I had a meeting with the president of Republic Steel, and he wanted some legislation passed. And I said, we will, and it would benefit the company. But I said, okay, I’ll do that. But you got to make sure that Black people and people in the city of Cleveland are hired, not just only Black give you that commitment. Those were the kind of things that we were doing. So I don’t think I’m over exaggerating it. There was always hope that what we were doing, we had urban renewal. We tore down most of downtown. It took us some time, but we rebuilt it. And as a result, some of the things that you see out here now, result of what men and women did then, the Radnor’s terminal tower, rather than let it go down, Jacobs built buildings downtown. So it was. It was. And you took pride in what you were doing. And I think as a result of that, some of the things that exist in our city today is because of men and women, both Black and white, decided that they wanted to make it a better city.
Unknown speaker [00:40:54] What do you think our current generation and our youth could do to get us back there? Do you have any words of wisdom or our thoughts on how we can regain that?
George L. Forbes [00:41:05] When you reach a certain age, you learn not to prophesy and you learn not to tell people what to do. If I’m not asked, I don’t recommend. And what we did then probably would not be apropos for today.
Dee Perry [00:41:23] Okay.
Unknown speaker [00:41:25] Is there anything else that you wanted to say about?
George L. Forbes [00:41:27] Men and women of goodwill can do unbelievable things. That’s my farewell.
Unknown speaker [00:41:38] Excellent.
Creative Commons License
This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 License.
