Abstract

George Forbes was born in Memphis, Tennessee. Forbes has owned a law firm in Cleveland since 1971. He was a city councilman from 1963-1989 and served as the first black council president during his last eighteen years in office. Forbes was also president of the Cleveland NAACP. This 2017 interview was collected as part of a yearlong, community-wide commemoration of the 50th anniversary of Carl Stokes' election as mayor of Cleveland.

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Interviewee

Forbes, George L. (interviewee)

Interviewer

Perry, Dee (interviewer)

Project

Stokes: Honoring the Past, Inspiring the Future

Date

2017

Document Type

Oral History

Duration

40 minutes

Transcript

Dee Perry [00:00:04] And Mrs. Dee Perry for honoring the past, inspiring the future. The Stokes commemorative oral histories. Speaking with George Forbes at Tri-C’s Main Stage Theater. And George, I’m so happy to be with you.

George L. Forbes [00:00:22] I’m more than glad to be here. When I got the word this morning, I was- I’m more than happy. It’s not too many of us remaining.

Dee Perry [00:00:31] I know that’s right. And I want to take you back to the beginning. Being born and raised in Memphis. And at that time it was openly segregated. I’m curious about the contrast or if there was any. When you first moved to Cleveland in 1948–49.

George L. Forbes [00:00:54] ’49, yeah.

Dee Perry [00:00:56] So from Memphis to Cleveland, any difference in the-

George L. Forbes [00:01:03] Memphis was- Segregation was the law. It was the way of life. You know, Blacks sat in the back, white people sat in the front. Jobs were almost nonexistent. I was raised on a farm. I chop cotton and all that. I tell you, when I first came to Cleveland, the first day I came to Cleveland, my brother lived at 63rd and Central. And we walked up to Cedar, up to 97th and Cedar. That was a place where the Black clubs were and, you know, Black restaurants. And as we walked down Cedar, and I was at about 80th, 90th and Cedar, and there was an East Ohio Gas structure. And at that time, East Ohio Gas trucks were olive green. And there was a group of men standing around a group of white men. And we passed by and I looked down in the hole and there was a white man with a shovel in a hole digging dirt. And I looked at that and I said, this is where I belong. I’d never seen white people, white men with shovels. Blacks always did that. So that was the marked difference right there. I knew this is where I belong. If a white man can go on a hole, that means I can get a job any place. That was the difference between Cleveland and the South.

Dee Perry [00:02:33] And you mentioned your brother, that was Zeke? 

George L. Forbes [00:02:35] Zeke.

Dee Perry [00:02:37] He was here establishing a base in the Glenville neighborhood, but first in Central, you’re saying. Describe that neighborhood when you were there in the late ’40s and then in the mid-’50s when you came back after the service. Who lived there? Was there a variety?

George L. Forbes [00:02:58] Yeah, well, there was nine of us in my family, and I was- I was the youngest living one. I had a sister who died when she was very young. And the South was so outrageously prejudiced toward Black. So my mother encouraged us to leave when we finished high school. And I had an aunt in Chicago. And my brothers and sisters would go up and as one Would leave. He or she would send for the one beneath them. Zeke came to Cleveland when he finished high school. He had a friend here who invited him to come up. And then when I finished high school, I decided to come to Cleveland rather than go to Chicago. And we lived at 63rd and Thackeray. That was in the Central neighborhood. And he worked at a place called Willard Storage Battery. And he subsequently moved from 63rd and Central to the Glenville area, 123rd and Superior. As Blacks moved in and began to expand their living residency, white people would move out to Shaker and those kind of places. So we lived on 124th and Phillips. And as we began to stay there, we became involved. He became involved in politics. Met a fellow by the name of Bill Sweeney, who was the insurance man who carried the insurance on his house. And Bill was- The neighborhood was changing. It was Glenville neighborhood, and, yeah, it was formerly known as the Gold Coast and areas like that. And you had clubs, Black clubs, and you would have entertainers coming in. And it was a good neighborhood. So we lived there. So Bill recognized that the neighborhood was changing. He didn’t understand the desires of Blacks as compared to white people. White people want good government. They wanted the streets clean and that type of thing. Black folks wanted jobs, and they wanted to be integrated into the civic affairs. So he decided that he would not, would not run again. I had just finished college, had just finished Baldwin Wallace. And during the time that I was here in Baldwin Wallace, we would go to the ward clubs meeting. And so Zeke said, why don’t you run for council? And incidentally, I had been the president of the Young Democrats Club at BW and I would bring speakers out from Cleveland. Jean Murrell Capers, councilman, and Charlie Bennett, the congressman. So I got the book as a young man and I ran in 1963. There was. I think there was about eight of us. There was seven. It was, yes, seven Blacks and a white lady by the name of Carrie Lawrence. Well, it was impossible for her to win. And so I came out and I won that election in 1963. And there was a lady by the name of Ann Brown who, who was- She and I was the top two. There was a fellow by the name of Al Brown also ran. He was a union fellow. And we had a meeting with all of the candidates except Ann Brown. And Al decided that he should be the guy, that in order to beat Anne Brown, that he would be the guy that would come out and survive. But he didn’t. But the race ended up between Ann Brown and myself, who was a very competent lady, very well-qualified lady. And we knew that the only way that we could beat her is that she was a Republican, but she didn’t. She wouldn’t say it. So on election day, we put out a piece of paper, just one piece of paper. And on the paper was your choice on election day. George, George Forbes, Democrat, and Brown, Republican. We had that out on every poll, every poll. And we knew that Black people would end up voting Democrat. Okay? And that’s how we did it. But it was a great time, a great neighborhood. The neighborhood changed, and it was stable for years. And this is where, when people moved from. Black people moved from Central. They moved out into the Glenville area on the north, and they moved to the Mount Pleasant area on the south.

Dee Perry [00:07:34] And you mentioned the ward clubs. What were they? How did they?

George L. Forbes [00:07:39] Ward clubs? Well, every ward had Democrat Republicans, but there was very few Republicans in the Black neighborhood. But the ward club consisted of precincts. And the ward would be divided into 20 or 25 precincts. Two or three streets or four streets make one precinct, and you would have. Each precinct would have a captain, and they were the ones that would deliver their precinct on election day. And you’d have ward club meetings once a month, and you would bring out people from downtown or from City hall to talk about politics. And that was the basis of the clubs. And Glenville had very strong ward clubs and very strong precinct committeemen.

Dee Perry [00:08:22] And that’s a level of involvement. I mean, just knowing street by street, whose vote you could deliver. That seems to have changed over time?

George L. Forbes [00:08:35] It was almost impossible for you as a councilman to know everybody in your ward. But you knew at the ward club meetings everybody was invited. But the precinct amendments would know who those people were, who were the key Democrats who needed something, who needed favors, what streets need to be cleaned. And that was their job, to make sure those things were done. And at the ward club meetings once a month, we would discuss those things and we’d drink a little booze and eat turkey and all that kind of stuff. Okay. And that’s. It was kind of not only political, but also a social group, social gathering.

Dee Perry [00:09:10] And that’s a great way to build a base and to keep it. But it makes me think about the path that Carl Stokes took. You first crossed paths with him, I think, when you were still in law school.

George L. Forbes [00:09:27] I was in college. He was the hardest thing going, and he was well-known, well written about, And I went in to, went to see him one day. I said, man, I want to get into this politics. And we sat down, we had a conversation, and he. He was very shrewd, very smart. And he said, George, if you want to get in politics, go into one of those neighborhoods that’s going to change, okay? And that they have one of these young white fellows that’s not going to stay, go hook up with him. And when it changed, you’ll be right there. And that’s where I got that advice from. And that’s how we ended up with Bill Sweeney.

Dee Perry [00:10:07] And you described him as very shrewd, very smart. Anything else that struck you from the first time or the first few times that you talked with Carl Stokes about just where his head was politically, what his vision was for the future?

George L. Forbes [00:10:30] You know, I can recall people who were significant in my life and people who was unusual. He was. He understood. First of all, he understood people. He knew what made people tick. But he was. He was ultra, ultra smart. And I know when he jumped a little head, but when he ran for mayor, he could tell you how many votes was in what precinct and where to go to get those votes and who were in those precincts is most likely to vote for him. When he ran, he won about two or three thousand, six thousand votes, but he knew exactly where he could go get those. So he had the political instinct of how to deal with people and how to make things work.

Dee Perry [00:11:20] He wrote in his autobiography, I think, Promises of Power, about his desire to run for office beyond city. So I’m curious about the reaction when he decided to become the first Black Democrat elected the House of Representatives? What were people thinking, saying, how were they reacting?

George L. Forbes [00:11:48] Well, he didn’t want to be a councilman, okay? That wasn’t where he was. His head was. Prior to about the ’60s, ’61, ’62, we had what we call the blanket ballot for state representatives, okay? You’d have a whole ballot with 15 or 20 offices to be filled, and you’d have 30 or 40 people running. And he got together to get rid of the blanket ballot. So you’d have districts for state reps, as we have now. I think it was 11th district, 13th district, I think. But before that, everybody in the county ran on the same ballot, and whoever had the most votes won. So it was almost impossible for Blacks to get elected. Now, he did get elected on the blanket ballot, but it came into where he wanted. That was a desire on not just his part, but by the civic leagues and all those things to change it so that people get elected from their districts. But he was instrumental in that. But I remember talking to him, and he was proposing that, and he ran into Governor Rhodes. Jim Rose was the governor at that particular time, and he had asked the governor to sponsor this, to stand for this. And Jim Rhodes was a Republican, but he was a man that loved people. And at the same time, the governor was trying to get his budget through. And Carl took it upon himself to object to the budget, to oppose the budget. So he told me that all of a sudden he found out that the. The redistricting had stopped, it wasn’t moving. So he went to see the governor, said, well, you get the same people with you to oppose the budget, to get your district through. Okay. So he learned that lesson right quick. He dropped that. And then Rhodes made sure that the new redistricting plan got through. But he was instinctive. He was instinctive. He just knew it from dealing with people, how to make things work.

Dee Perry [00:14:07] It makes me curious, though, because he had a different vision for how his career was going to go politically, why he decided to run for mayor first in ’65 and then in ’67. How did that fit in with the master plan of redistricting and then going to Congress, et cetera, et cetera?

George L. Forbes [00:14:28] Well, if you had a choice of being a state representative, being a mayor, naturally you’re going to be the mayor, okay? But he sat down and he figured it out and he felt it. But also at the same time, there was the creation of the 21st district congressional district, of which Charlie Vanik had been the congressman, but that was on the horizon. So in the meantime, he had to have someplace to go. So if you had a choice between 99 state representative or one mayor of the city of Cleveland, and he did the numbers and he said, look, I think we can make this. So he organized a team and got together and he got elected in ’67. But the ’65 mayoral, first time he lost.

Dee Perry [00:15:18] And you’ve told a story about how he came to you and a group of Black councilmen at the time and just assumed that.

George L. Forbes [00:15:27] No, not assumed. Demanded.

Dee Perry [00:15:29] Demanded.

George L. Forbes [00:15:30] Okay. No, you did. Well, it was 10 of us at the time. I was 11. John Kellogg was a Republican. There was 10 of us. And he was running for mayor. And you had to know him. He was egotistical and he didn’t take any prisoners. And so he met with us and he said, well, you’re going to support me to do this. What do you say? He said, no, you’re going to support me. He didn’t ask. He didn’t assume you are going to support us with him. So none of us did. None of us did. And he lost. And he lost by a very slim margin. And so Charlie Carr was his mentor. Charlie Carr was a senior Black councilman. He was a senior councilman, period. And Charlie told him, said, carl, don’t do that. Go talk to them. Well, we talked, and he demanded that you go and support me. And he lost. The next time around, I’ll never forget, it was two years later, I was. I was at home on my front porch on 114th Street, and I looked up, he pulled up in his big black limousine, big black Lincoln, came across my yard, said, you don’t have to come see me. I want you to support me. I’m with you. I always regretted that I didn’t support him the first time around. I really did. I always. Because I think if we had supported him, he probably would have won. And that was always a bad feeling that I didn’t do it. But also learned something from that. If you want people to do something, you ask them. You don’t demand, particularly in this business of politics and continuing along that. What if. I wondered if you thought about what difference it would have made to have had Carl stokes in. In ’65, if he would have been able to do more than from ’67 to ’71 or- I don’t think it wouldn’t have made any difference because she was still dealing with the same city, same corporate community, same Black folks, same white. It wouldn’t have made any difference. I think probably, if anything, it probably helped. In fact, he had had the dry run in ’65. He knew where not to go, where to go and what to say and what not to do. It wouldn’t have made any difference except you lost two years.

Dee Perry [00:17:59] But I’m also wondering about the Hough uprising in ’66, if that was a factor in helping to get him to the win in ’67.

George L. Forbes [00:18:12] Well, the Hough riots was a little different. That was the rise of Black Nationalism throughout the whole country. And we were not unusual. What happened is that as Black Nationalism was rising and you had disturbances throughout the country by Black people, the white community, in particular the white business community, thought that if Carl was elected, it would stave off those kind of things in Cleveland by having a Black mayor. But it didn’t work out. The riots and tough riots came about because of bad housing, government not responding to people. I remember the riots started at 79th, and there was a tavern there was on the southeast corner of Hough at 79th Street. You couldn’t. And I was the- I managed a piece of property for Cleveland Clinic. I mean, for Cleveland Trust. It was a big, huge apartment building. And I managed that. I was a receiver for that property because it was in probate court and it was all Black people welfare and what have you. And it was on the- It was on the northwest corner diagonal from the tavern. And you could not go in the tavern. They had a sign that says “no n—–rs allowed.” Okay? And this is an all-Black neighborhood. Are you listening to me? This was no n—–rs allowed, and you couldn’t come in there. And I think fellow went in, they got tired of it, and they tore the damn place up. But that was indicative of the race relations in Cleveland at that particular time. So the- So the business community decided that if we get Carl elected, we can forego that. That’ll skip us. We won’t have to deal with that. But that was just one problem. If you white people can have a tavern in an all-Black neighborhood and don’t let Black folks in, but you had bad housing, you had very little, if any police protection, those type of things. And that’s what kicked it all off. And he knew that these are the kind of things that if he got elected mayor, that he could rectify that. At least he would try to rectify that. And it did change, because at the time that Carl. The year that Carl was elected, I think we elected about. I think it was six of us, six additional councilmen. There was about six in council then we took in. So there’s about 10 or 12 of us at that particular time.

Dee Perry [00:21:44] Something else I thought was interesting in his book was him admitting that he didn’t know until he got into the mayor’s office how powerful the council was, how powerful the council men were. And I’m wondering about the relationship between Mayor Stokes and Cleveland city Council.

George L. Forbes [00:22:07] It was horrible. Well, he didn’t- You had to understand Carl. He was- He solicited power, okay? And he was not used to anybody telling him, no, what you can’t do, he’d find a way to do it. And then when he became the mayor, that he. You know, you’re in this big red room and this big velvet chair and these huge desk and what have you. Jim Stanton was the president of council. Jim Stanton brought me up into council about two or three terms before, and he was a West side Irishman, and Carl didn’t. Carl saw him as the embodiment of what was wrong with Cleveland, rather than recognizing that they were two young men of equal stature who wanted to climb in the political world. Jim eventually became a congressman and became one of Tip O’Neill’s right hand men. Okay. So they both would rise over the. Carl had this thing with him that Jim was a bigot and he didn’t like Black people, which is untrue. Okay. But it was a way of elevating what he wanted to do. So. But what he failed to recognize is that he was the mayor. He would propose legislation, he would propose to do things. And you had 33 men who formed the legislative body who would either say yes or no. You couldn’t do that. So that’s when he began to recognize that you just can’t say, I’m going to do this and it’s got to be done. But he and Stanton never really got along. But I think he mentions in the book about his brother Lou. Lou and Jim Stanton was the best of friends. They were the best of friends. They went down to Washington, worked together on projects for Cleveland and Carl always held that against Lou. You still like Stanton while I don’t. Okay.

Dee Perry [00:24:19] You talked about things that Stokes did in office, and one of them was presenting the Cleveland now plan and trying to implement a partnership that would revitalize the state, city, and address some of the things you were talking about, the inequities. What did you think of that plan? Was it anything new?

George L. Forbes [00:24:44] Sure, it was completely new. It was. The Cleveland now plan was. It was an organization that was formed by a group of downtown businessmen. Yeah. It was men, there was no women. And they collectively took their companies that they represented and said, look, we got to make changes. They recognized what was going on in huff and those kind of, look, we got to make change. We got to make things better. So they put the funds together and they put the organizations together to make sure that people had a. Had a shot. Okay. That you could go to school, that made sure that levies was passed and those kind of things and health issues was passed so that particularly Black Cleveland could be. Their lives could be improved. And they were the ones that worked with him to make changes. And you know, like during the riots, they was want to make sure that people were stable. And, you know, did these things make a difference? Absolutely. I don’t think anybody in other cities in the country was doing that.

Dee Perry [00:26:05] Did it make a difference to the city? And I’m thinking in different parts of the city, it probably made a big difference that Carl was the first African American mayor of America. Major city. I’m assuming there was pride in some parts of the city. Consternation in other parts. But was race a factor?

George L. Forbes [00:26:31] Did people recognize this Black man was mayor? Yes, they did. Okay. Even white. Not only white people, Black people. I can remember specifically to your point. I remember we had two riots. We had the Glenville riots. We had Glenville riots. Remember the Glenville riots? Ahmed Evans and a group of people, his followers. They were at the corner of Auburndale and Lakeview. That’s off 123rd Street. I was in my ward, and we had gotten word that something was about to break off. And Carl was in Washington, and. And he called and he asked me in. Walter Beach. Walter Beach was a football player with the Cleveland Browns at that particular time. Said, look, go out there and get Ahmed Square. So we went out. We went out, and I’ll never forget, Ahmed was sitting on the steps of an apartment building, and he was smoking reefer. That’s a term that you all don’t know. Y’ all called it weed. But we called it reef at that particular time. And it was just as high as he could be. And he had. Another one of his cohorts was in the backyard, and they had. Both of them had banana, had rifles, you know, crab beans and all that shit, okay? And they were sitting there. I said, man, what’s going on? I was. Look, I got nervous. All these guns. And the cops were parked across the street in a police car, in a detective’s car. I said, you know, the mayor told me to come out. He said, you tell the big man that everything’s going to be all right. Okay? This is just before the riot started. Tell the big man that everything is going to be all right. But he had sense enough to know that. He recognized that the mayor was the mayor of the whole city. So Walter and I decided we had done about as much as we could do. We talked to him. So I said, let me go get Harllel. I met Harllel Jones, who was a very, very fine young guy. So we went to get Harllel to come talk with him. But by the time we got back to Lakeview, in Auburndale, the shooting had started. Okay, the shooting had started. But I’m anticipating that probably his being high outweighed his ability to think through this type of thing. But he recognized that Carl Stokes was the mayor of the city of Cleveland. And incidentally, at the same time, during the Glenville riots, never forget it, Carl pulled the police out because he felt there’d be a bloodbath, and it would have been. And he asked the ministers and the councilmen and civic leaders to start walking the streets. Well, some things had started. Some of the rioting had started. We were at the corner of 105th and North Boulevard. Never forget it, 105th and North Boulevard. And we were walking down the street, walking down 105th Street. And a lady. A lady was on a porch on North Avenue, North Boulevard. And she said, son, y’ all come over here a minute. So we went over there and she said, son, she says, a boy took a gallon of gasoline. It’s over there behind that cleaners. It’s over there behind the cleaners. So we went over. Harllel and I went over and we got the gasoline because they had stashed. It’s going to burn things down. So I got the gas station. They said, come on, Holly. I said, let’s pour this gas down the drain. He said, no. Well, put this in my car. I ain’t got no gas. In the worst of circumstances, there’s some humor that start. But we had a. It was about three nights. Nothing really bad happened, even though the police were not there. But out of respect for this man being the mayor of the city and trying to keep- Make sure that everybody was protected.

Dee Perry [00:30:55] It seems like, though.

George L. Forbes [00:30:57] So if you’re ever in trouble, don’t pull your gasoline out, put it in your car.

Dee Perry [00:31:01] Words to live by. But I was thinking, even though it had the outcome of his being the mayor, of making the riot less, it seems like that broke his spirit. It definitely stopped the momentum of the Cleveland now revitalization.

George L. Forbes [00:31:23] It did. It did. The white businessmen were what they thought they were buying. They thought they were buying peace. But you. You can’t have peace without reform. All right, the young Blacks. No, no. And he was disheartened about that.

Dee Perry [00:31:48] When you think about what is different because Carl Stokes was mayor, what do you point to? What do you see as something that lasted from that time?

George L. Forbes [00:32:03] Well, the politics of Cleveland changed. Absolutely. The politics of Cleveland changed. He left. When he. Didn’t run again, he ran twice. Then Ralph Prick was elected mayor. But as we went from six councilmen to about 13, okay, we had a body of council that was 33 and reduced it from 33 to 21. So the ratio representation went up, but the politics. The politics changed. The members of the judicial judges, both county and citywide. I became the president of council and I stayed president of Council for 18 years. Virgil Brown went into the county commissioners. Oh, no, we did not go backwards numerically. We did not go backwards. And Black participation in the city of Cleveland, you got A Black mayor. Now, you had a Black mayor before Jane. Then you had Mike White. Yeah. No, the politics changed.

Dee Perry [00:33:39] I’m also wondering about you, your vision of the city. I mean, you became what was pretty much agreed upon as the most powerful man in the city. As the president of city council. Do you see a line between what happened in the 60s to where you ended up in terms of?

George L. Forbes [00:34:13] You know, that always sounded good, but I wasn’t carried away by that. All right? I was elected by. I never ran unopposed as president of council, and it only would take a coup to get rid of me. So I wasn’t. I heard that. But, you know, I was one of 21, first one to 33. But I think my strong suit was that I understood human nature. I understood people. We never. When I went into council, we never got the people on the east side never got a fair shake. All right? They never built the recreation centers and the health centers to the same extent that they did on the west side. And I said I wasn’t going to do that. I’m going to make sure everybody got a shot. But I wasn’t crazy enough to build all the centers on the east side with Black folks. I built them on the west side for white folks, and. And I built them on the east side for Black folks. And everybody was happy. Now, if you got a rec center, you weren’t going to get a health center. Somebody else was going to get that. So my success was in understanding people. You got this. You got this. Now I need this, okay? Now I need this from you. And that’s the way I kept the balance for 18 years. Made sure that everybody, east side, west side, was equally, had equal access to the profits of the service of the city of Cleveland. But I wasn’t carried away about, you know, once you started believing you were powerful, then you were gone and somebody else came in and assumed that power.

Dee Perry [00:36:18] But near the beginning of the conversation, you were saying that you got the bug for politics. But I think it had to be more than a bug to make you stay in it and to make you keep doing it year after year. So.

George L. Forbes [00:36:36] But I can’t understand now, I came from Memphis, Tennessee, where you couldn’t. Well, in Memphis, you could vote. In Memphis, my parents could always vote, but you had to pay the poll tax and you had to vote who Mr. Crump tell you to vote. You can only vote for who you were told to vote for. Okay? So I come from that environment to here, where you could vote. You could vote. Okay? No restrictions. And this was And I had studied political science in college. I didn’t know whether I was going to be a success at it, so I got me a teacher’s certificate on his side. But I’m exposed to this. And I said, this is. Then you’re around the Stokeses, and you’re around Carl, you’re around Lou, and you’re around people. And you see people who come to ward clubs and they believe in you. And we support a candidate, we get him elected. Okay. That’s what I saw. Then I said, okay, if I can do that, I can do things for people. And I made sure that when I was elected that Black people would share in the services of the city of Cleveland. And it wasn’t that they got more than white people. They got more than they ever got before. And I wasn’t stupid enough to think that I can take this from the west side. But they got more than ever before. And consequently, for 18 years, everybody was happy.

Dee Perry [00:38:07] When you look around at the landscape now, what do you think about the way politics gets done in the city, in the region?

George L. Forbes [00:38:17] I’ve made it my business. I stayed at city hall for 26 years. I was president of City Council for the last 18. I’ve been to City hall, and I’ve been out of government longer than I was in government. Okay. I left in ’89. It’s about 26. Whatever it is, I do not go there. I served my time. I was a good prisoner. And I do not comment on what other people are doing. And that’s that way everybody loves me.

Dee Perry [00:38:53] And what do you love these days?

George L. Forbes [00:38:56] I’m retired. I very seldom make public appearances. I. Because this was the Stokes brothers, I decided I would do that. But I’m retired. I live in Florida six months out of the year. I stay here, but I look and I read about the progress that people have made. I’m very proud of my city. Somebody asked me, was I going to move. No, this is my city. This is where I was. I grew up. This is where I maturated. This is my town. But I think that once you have a chance to do what a chance that I had, which is unusual, and had a lot of fun. Had a lot of fun, but did a lot of good. And I let other people do what they have to do.

Dee Perry [00:39:44] Thank you so much for doing what you have done and for being who you are.

George L. Forbes [00:39:50] Well, bless you. Thank you very much. Y’all get good jobs. You get some jobs at KYC and all these other places when you finish here. Okay. Particularly your little brother. All right, all right.

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