Lorna Mierke of Shaker Heights has been a member of the Village Garden Club since 1964. She recounts memories of growing up in New Haven, Connecticut, where she lived through college. Mierke describes her mother-in-law Prudence Mierke’s role in fighting the Clark and Lee Freeways that were planned to slice through the Shaker Lakes in the 1960s, as well as her opinions about the Horseshoe Lake dam controversy. She discusses the origin of the garden club’s Cherry Tree Grove, her experience with Ikebana flower-arranging techniques, and advice for effective flower arranging.


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Mierke, Lorna (interviewee)


Cameron, Caitlen (interviewer)


Shaker Heights Historical Society



Document Type

Oral History


59 minutes


Caitlen Cameron [00:00:00] Hello, my name is Caitlin Cameron with the Shaker Historical Society, and I'm here with...

Lorna Mierke [00:00:06] Lorna Mierke, Lorna. L-O-R-N-A.

Caitlen Cameron [00:00:08] Okay, and we are here to kind of know some information about the Village Garden Club and all of Lorna's history. Are you ready, Lorna?

Lorna Mierke [00:00:21] Yes, I am.

Caitlen Cameron [00:00:23] Alright, and do you consent to be recorded?

Lorna Mierke [00:00:25] Yes.

Caitlen Cameron [00:00:25] Okay, let's get started then.

Lorna Mierke [00:00:27] Okay.

Caitlen Cameron [00:00:27] Alright, so when were you born?

Lorna Mierke [00:00:30] 1934.

Caitlen Cameron [00:00:30] Okay. And where was that?

Lorna Mierke [00:00:30] In New Haven, Connecticut.

Caitlen Cameron [00:00:35] Really?

Lorna Mierke [00:00:36] Yes.

Caitlen Cameron [00:00:37] So...

Lorna Mierke [00:00:37] I grew up in New Haven.

Caitlen Cameron [00:00:39] In New Haven?

Lorna Mierke [00:00:39] Mhm.

Caitlen Cameron [00:00:39] Did you have any siblings?

Lorna Mierke [00:00:43] Yes. A sister who is now deceased and an older brother who is now deceased.

Caitlen Cameron [00:00:53] Cool. So, what did you do growing up and how did you get to where you are now?

Lorna Mierke [00:00:58] What?

Caitlen Cameron [00:00:58] So, in, like, when you were in Connecticut, what did your parents do and what was it like living there?

Lorna Mierke [00:01:08] I had a great childhood. I thought about that the other day, actually, unlike today, people, our mothers don't let their children play outdoors alone. I mean, I was free. [laughs] I could play anywhere, anywhere. As I grew up, roller skated down to the Yale Bowl to get lacrosse balls. Yeah. When they bounced over the fence, they were great rubber balls. [laughs] Yeah. With a friend. And I went to elementary school there. And high school and college.

Caitlen Cameron [00:02:01] Really?

Lorna Mierke [00:02:01] Yeah.

Caitlen Cameron [00:02:02] What college did you go to?

Lorna Mierke [00:02:03] New Haven State Teachers College. I was an art teacher for many years, but that changed to a state university which is now in existence in New Haven but started out as a teacher's college. Oh, you know, women... At that time, the only thing you could do is nursing or teacher.

Lorna Mierke [00:02:39] Really?

Lorna Mierke [00:02:40] Yeah, my brother went to Yale and my parents were just coming out of the depression, of course. And so they couldn't afford a lot of tuitions. And my sister was a nurse and I had a great childhood growing up in New Haven. I met my husband Harvey, who was a Clevelander in South Dakota, at an Indian Reservation.

Caitlen Cameron [00:03:15] Really?

Lorna Mierke [00:03:15] Yes, at a work camp.

Caitlen Cameron [00:03:18] How did you meet at South Dakota?

Lorna Mierke [00:03:20] Well, it was a Rural Council of Churches work camp, and he wanted to go to Alaska and I wanted to go to Germany. But those work camps were filled out. So, the second choice was South Dakota. [laughs] That's how we met.

Lorna Mierke [00:03:43] Wow. How old were you?

Lorna Mierke [00:03:45] Oh, twenty-three. Twenty-four at that time. Yeah.

Caitlen Cameron [00:03:52] Was it an instant connection or...

Lorna Mierke [00:03:55] Oh, it grew a little bit [laughs] but we fell in love out there and he was at Amherst College at that time. I was teaching at that time a year and a half older than he, but he skipped a year in school because of meningitis and he's lucky to be alive these days. A very active person.

Caitlen Cameron [00:04:28] Really?

Lorna Mierke [00:04:29] Yeah.

Caitlen Cameron [00:04:29] So how did you get to Cleveland? And you guys were inseparable.

Lorna Mierke [00:04:34] We married and went to Ann Arbor, Michigan. Well, he was a graduate in law school there, in Ann Arbor. And we lived there for three years and then moved here because it's a great lawyers’ town.

Caitlen Cameron [00:04:57] So did you still teach when you moved here?

Lorna Mierke [00:04:59] Uh, no. I had a child by that time and then, you know, became a housewife.

Caitlen Cameron [00:05:08] Oh.

Lorna Mierke [00:05:09] We lived in Shaker Heights for twenty-eight years.

Caitlen Cameron [00:05:13] Really?

Lorna Mierke [00:05:13] Yeah. Warrensville Heights first in a little house there, and then in 1964 I joined Village Garden Club because my mother-in-law belonged to the club and she introduced me to that group of women and became interested, interesting to me. Because it was an active group at that time, and it still is. Yeah, yeah.

Caitlen Cameron [00:05:47] So when you joined and talked to your mother-in-law, what did she, how did she describe the club to you?

Lorna Mierke [00:05:57] She said it's an active group of women and very involved with the community. So, and the main reason for the club to be in existence was that the grove of cherry trees at Shaker Lakes. So that's the reason I joined.

Caitlen Cameron [00:06:21] Before you joined, did you have any experience in gardening?

Lorna Mierke [00:06:26] Oh, yes, my mother was a great gardener.

Caitlen Cameron [00:06:30] Really?

Lorna Mierke [00:06:31] Yeah, I helped her dig a lot.

Caitlen Cameron [00:06:35] What type of stuff did she grow?

Lorna Mierke [00:06:37] Oh, vegetables at that time and then flowers, etc.

Caitlen Cameron [00:06:42] Flowers?

Lorna Mierke [00:06:43] Yeah.

Caitlen Cameron [00:06:44] That's nice. Did you have any favorite things that she planted?

Lorna Mierke [00:06:46] Oh, no. Just everything. Behind our house in New Haven, there was an empty lot which we called the tennis court and at some time or another people played tennis there. But as a kid, we played baseball and soccer and everything.

Caitlen Cameron [00:07:13] That's cool.

Lorna Mierke [00:07:14] Yeah.

Caitlen Cameron [00:07:16] So, okay, so you were, you learned from your mother about gardening?

Lorna Mierke [00:07:21] Yeah.

Caitlen Cameron [00:07:21] How did you, so when you moved to Cleveland, did you immediately start your own garden?

Lorna Mierke [00:07:30] No. in Warrensville Heights, it's a small yard and small children.

Caitlen Cameron [00:07:44] Okay, well that's cool. I understand that I know my family never has time to garden anymore. I had to start my own.

Lorna Mierke [00:07:52] Yeah, yeah.

Caitlen Cameron [00:07:54] And try to do it myself, but it's a lot of work and a lot of love.

Lorna Mierke [00:07:56] Oh, it is. Yes. And as I joined the club, part of the reason was they would teach a lot about gardening, about what worked and what didn't. My mother-in-law had a great garden, wonderful garden. So, I learned a lot from her. And eventually we bought the house next door to my mother-in-law and father-in-law and moved in there. And our children grew up with their grandmother there because the grandfather, Harvey's dad, died shortly after we moved there. And so it was a great association. I loved her a lot, and she was great.

Caitlen Cameron [00:08:47] So can I ask you more questions about her?

Lorna Mierke [00:08:50] Sure!

Caitlen Cameron [00:08:52] So what was her name? And then just kind of, just any information about her.

Lorna Mierke [00:08:59] Okay, so Prudence Mierke. Yeah. And she was part of the committee that helped to prevent the highway going through the communities, Shaker Heights and Cleveland Heights. Can you imagine a highway going through? No. Well, imagine that. It would have broken up the communities totally and it was fortunate that the women were involved with that. Mary Elizabeth Croxton was a member of Village Garden Club and she headed up the community that was against the highway being built. So she got everyone involved, and not only the Village Garden Club, but other clubs around the neighborhood and the community, and she went to Washington herself and petitioned the government to prevent this from happening. And people became wise about that. She knew all the facts and so did my mother-in-law.

Caitlen Cameron [00:10:18] Really?

Lorna Mierke [00:10:18] Yeah.

Caitlen Cameron [00:10:19] Did she ever go to Washington herself?

Lorna Mierke [00:10:23] No, she never did. I don't know why, but she never talked about that.

Caitlen Cameron [00:10:32] Did she... so was she involved before? So before you joined the club, she was involved in this fight, right?

Lorna Mierke [00:10:40] Yes, yes, yes.

Caitlen Cameron [00:10:42] So what did she, what did she tell you about this? What was she...

Lorna Mierke [00:10:45] Oh, she said it was an exciting time and pushed for a conclusion about the highway to prevent it from happening. And she said something about how important it was for the communities involved, Shaker Heights and Cleveland Heights in particular, what it would do to the community as a whole. And it would have been devastating. It would have really been devastating.

Caitlen Cameron [00:11:28] Thank you to your mother-in-law for being there to help with the fight and you know, making Shaker this beautiful place that it is today, and preserve it.

Lorna Mierke [00:11:37] Yeah.

Caitlen Cameron [00:11:38] They made a really huge impact. And I know women at that time we weren't able to do a lot.

Lorna Mierke [00:11:45] Yeah, but, you know, citizens can make a big difference about something when they get on their high horse about it and know the rules and the facts involved. Anything could happen. Citizens can make a difference in the world. Yes.

Caitlen Cameron [00:12:11] That's a good PSA for everyone right now because I feel like that activism is really rising up again.

Lorna Mierke [00:12:18] I think so, too. After the pandemic, I think people had time to think it over and get involved with things that matter. You read about it every day.

Caitlen Cameron [00:12:33] It's a good thing. It's a good thing that people are paying attention.

Lorna Mierke [00:12:38] Yeah, right.

Caitlen Cameron [00:12:44] Okay so, so you were related to the mother-in-law. Do you remember anybody else that was prominent, that you got to talk to that was involved?

Lorna Mierke [00:13:03] Oh, well, people are now dead. I can't remember. Who was involved, but, oh, Fran Bayless was one of them. She's still a member. She's not as old as I am, but almost! [laughing] And people are still interested in what happened then, and it's kind of a shame in a way that Shaker Lake, the upper lake, is becoming in the news again because of a dam that Shaker's built. And it's deteriorating condition now. And they're talking about making the lake into the stream again, which kind of too bad in a way. I haven't made up my mind about that. But you asked who else was involved. Mary Elizabeth Croxton. Oh. You know, I can't remember at this point...

Caitlen Cameron [00:14:48] That's okay.

Lorna Mierke [00:14:49] If I think about that, who else was involved at that time.

Caitlen Cameron [00:14:59] That's no worries at all. So you said you were talking about the upper lake, right, and how they're changing it, and how do you, what was your first impression when you heard about it?

Lorna Mierke [00:15:12] I thought it was a shame that it was no longer going to be a lake. I think that they should put the money into dredging so that it becomes a lake again. I've read that in some press that, one portion of the lake was only two feet deep, which means that dredging could make it deeper, would make sense and repair the dam, put the money where the dam was.

Caitlen Cameron [00:15:59] Yeah.

Lorna Mierke [00:15:59] Yeah.

Caitlen Cameron [00:16:00] No, they said it was a safety, like a big safety issue because if the dam broke it could...

Lorna Mierke [00:16:06] Flood.

Caitlen Cameron [00:16:09] Yeah.

Lorna Mierke [00:16:09] Flood lower than that. Well, there's ways to amend that to make it work. I think it should be workable if it's kind of a shame not to look at that and see a lake. I would think the people who lived across the street there would have an input, too. And Shaker Historical Society could push for that.

Caitlen Cameron [00:16:48] Yeah, I know we've had some discussions about it, I don’t know what their plans are yet. But I know that there's been a discussion recently.

Lorna Mierke [00:16:58] Yeah.

Caitlen Cameron [00:17:00] So hopefully, hopefully things will be preserved and especially for all the plants in the Grove area. So speaking of the Grove, can you tell me what it is, from your prespective?

Lorna Mierke [00:17:14] The what?

Caitlen Cameron [00:17:16] The Cherry Tree Grove. What...

Lorna Mierke [00:17:21] Oh, the Grove. Oh, our tree. Oh, well, it was started by original members because one of the members, one of the members went to Washington at the time and saw the Japanese maple trees that were donated there. And she thought "Oh! The Cleveland along the lake there could, we could do that, too." So we've done it for years and years, planted trees in memory of deceased members, and it's grown like crazy. That's the purpose of the club, really. Really. But we have all kinds of programs here. Freeway City, a Brad Masi film. Here. That's his name.

Caitlen Cameron [00:18:30] Oh, yeah. So I know you have a lot of meetings with master gardeners, I see that in there. And so what are some of the events that you remember that you participated in or have cherished?

Lorna Mierke [00:18:45] Oh, I was program chairman, president at one time. Every year we have had the annual meeting, a planned exchange, people dig up things that they don't want in their garden, and anybody can pick up a plant and put it in their own garden. So that's very nice to do because it means sharing.

Caitlen Cameron [00:19:20] Yeah.

Lorna Mierke [00:19:20] And that's a good thing. Oh, we have had an annual Christmas party. It used to be held in somebody's house. But now it’s at the Skating Club, mostly. Before that, it was at St. Paul's Church community room for a long time. Oh, about three or four years. And it was an exciting time. We've had, as you see a Cherry Tree luncheon. Yeah, we've had different kinds of programs through the years. I mean, what can I say? I've learned a lot and that one thing that influenced me a great deal was a member Betty Lee was a member of Ikebana International [I.I.] And she gave a demonstration at the club meetings. And I said, I'm going to do that. So I joined I.I. I was invited to join and I became very involved with that. And I've been teaching Ikebana, up until this past year for all these years.

Caitlen Cameron [00:21:04] So tell me what Ikebana is, and I want to know everything because I know nothing about it.

Lorna Mierke [00:21:10] Oh, Ikebana? It's a Japanese way of, method of flower arranging. There are many, many schools. Ikebana, Ikanobbo is the oldest school. It goes back five hundred years plus and out of that grew, Contemporary Schools. Ohara School is one of them. And by the way, at the end of September, the current headmaster, Hiroki Ohara, is coming to Cleveland at the museum to demonstrate...

Caitlen Cameron [00:21:53] Really?

Lorna Mierke [00:21:54] For our fortieth anniversary.

Caitlen Cameron [00:21:58] Wow.

Lorna Mierke [00:21:58] Yeah. So that'll be a fun event.

Caitlen Cameron [00:22:02] Do you think you're better than the headmaster?

Lorna Mierke [00:22:06] No [laughs], no, I'm not better! I'm pretty good, but not better.

Caitlen Cameron [00:22:12] So if you were to tell me how to do, create a piece, an Ikebana piece, how would you... Like where would you start and how would you create it?

Lorna Mierke [00:22:27] It depends on the container you're using. Moribana means a low, flat, open container. Hekka is a tall vase, baskets and ceramic containers of various kinds. Yeah.

Caitlen Cameron [00:22:50] Alright. We had a brief moment of recess but now we are back. And if you could continue Lorna, with how to do the Ikebana?

Lorna Mierke [00:23:00] Oh, that's right. Well, it depends. You can do Ohara School with anything you have available, dried material as well as fresh material. For instance, last week when I used my studio. I offered it to Sogetsu school person who has a number of students. And she came into my studio and she went out and picked that bush and made a beautiful arrangement for students. Yeah. So it can be used anywhere, any time. People think that it's so esoteric that you'll have to follow the rules. Well, there are rules. There are ways to do an arrangement with a branch. Depends on whether it's going up or if it's slanting. There are ways to arrange those, that material, however, once you get to a certain beyond a certain point, you can do anything. And for instance, I became a judge through Garden Club of America, a flower arranging judge. Now, that includes a lot of mass arrangement. Typical British or American style arrangements that you can do anything based on Japanese way.

Caitlen Cameron [00:25:04] Really?

Lorna Mierke [00:25:04] Yeah, yeah, you can develop that into a blockage of blocking colors or textures or branch material, which is the line, and you can apply that to any kind of a rendering, which is a fun thing to do. To see developed in people. I loved it. And I know that stemmed from my love of nature. Anything, in those trees out there. I look at them every day and you can see anything to do with arranging there. One thing about Ikebana, is that you become aware of how things grow. Much more aware. You drive down the street and you see things and you say, I could do something with that. People have said that to me many, many times, said, I have become, since studying Ikebana, I've become more aware of nature, which is the point. Yeah, yeah. [crosstalk] And love of nature. How things grow, today we need that more than ever. When I read about the devastation of forests, I gag because people don't understand that a forest today means a lot in our well-being on this planet.

Caitlen Cameron [00:27:13] So do you look at things, from how, were when you were born to now like the amount of trees and the amount of wildlife [inaudible] and compared to the things how they are now?

Lorna Mierke [00:27:25] Oh, yes, a lot of difference. That's why this community, this neighborhood is so nice, it's really inspiring. It's a great neighborhood because there are many, many trees and everybody is concerned about their garden and they're planning around it, whereas some parts of the city are devastated and barren. And if you look around and you drive around, you'll find that true.

Caitlen Cameron [00:28:08] Yeah, I noticed Cleveland Heights and Shaker are so proud of the trees. Like, the trees are huge. I mean, in my hometown, they're miniscule.

Lorna Mierke [00:28:20] Oh, really? Yeah. Eventually they'll grow bigger. But, you know, it takes a long time.

Caitlen Cameron [00:28:30] It does take a long time.

Lorna Mierke [00:28:30] A couple of lifetimes. I mean, there are around this neighborhood, there are trees that are over a hundred years old. I mean, that tree out there, I'm sure it's a hundred years old or more, and it creates shade and coolness and cleans the air, and helps us breathe better.

Caitlen Cameron [00:29:00] So how many trees do you've think you planted?

Lorna Mierke [00:29:05] [laughs] Oh, how many trees. Oh, a dozen, maybe. I haven't had to plant any trees here. Oh, in the courtyard. We just had that redone because a couple of trees out there, a Japanese maple and a crabapple died. Yeah. Twenty-plus years old. Wasn't planted right to begin with. I was very involved with building that house and everything that I was doing, including the Art Museum. Flower Fun. That's another thing now. And we do the arrangements on the pedestal in the lobby all the time.

Caitlen Cameron [00:29:57] Really?

Lorna Mierke [00:29:57] Yeah, I was part of that group originally. Yeah, it was partly my idea. Yeah.

Caitlen Cameron [00:30:07] Really? Could you tell me more about that?

Lorna Mierke [00:30:08] Yeah.

Caitlen Cameron [00:30:08] Because I see that. I see the arrangements.

Lorna Mierke [00:30:10] Oh yes. Now we are a group of people who are members of the Women's Council who signed up to do that arrangement and with an assistant, usually. And one time we thought, well, Sherman Lee, who was the director at that time, gave approval to put arrangements on the pedestal and the pedestal wasn't in existence until we formed this group of Flower Fun people. And there was an outpouring of enthusiasm for now every time we do it once a week. People the public stops by as you're doing it and ask questions and they admire it and they think, oh, it's great. This is the first thing I look at, people tell me, yeah, when I enter the museum.

Caitlen Cameron [00:31:32] So why did you start that? Just...

Lorna Mierke [00:31:34] What?

Caitlen Cameron [00:31:34] Did you just started for fun or why did you push for that to be added to the art museum?

Lorna Mierke [00:31:42] Because it needed some color in the lobby. It was a dead lobby for a long time. Now it's much more lively, and I think, just because there was talent laying there among the women's committee and it was an outlet for people to become involved with the art museum, now we do it every week, every week. I'm no longer doing it, but. Oh, no, I gave it up. Oh, I miss it terribly. [laughs] Oh, but, you know, there comes a time when as you get older, you realize that you can't do it anymore. Just, you can't. It takes a lot of energy, a lot of planning and going to get the flowers wholesale into wholesale outfits, companies around town and take it to the art museum, condition it and make an arrangement on Monday or Tuesday. And it just takes a lot of time, a lot of effort.

Caitlen Cameron [00:33:12] So I had I had flowers in vase before, maybe like, just a simple, simple step. But how do you preserve and make that arrangement lasts for at least a week?

Lorna Mierke [00:33:27] A week? You cut the stems underwater. Oh, because if you cut the air, air gets up the stem. It prevents the water from going up to the flower in the leaves. So you cut it underwater. [phone rings] It makes... [laughs]

Caitlen Cameron [00:33:56] It's okay.

Lorna Mierke [00:33:56] Oh. It prevents the air from getting up the stem. So you cut it underwater all the time, every time.

Caitlen Cameron [00:34:08] Okay. Do you do it every day? That's on the... [crosstalk]

Lorna Mierke [00:34:12] No, once, but you clean the water at least once in between. Yeah.

Caitlen Cameron [00:34:19] Do you have any tips for adding things to the water? I know some people add those little packets...

Lorna Mierke [00:34:25] Oh, you can use it. Yes, that's a good idea. But I don't usually because timing is of the essence, but. It's, you don't have to do it, but it's wise to do it.

Caitlen Cameron [00:34:56] Okay.

Lorna Mierke [00:34:57] Yeah.

Caitlen Cameron [00:34:58] And then I have one more question about it because it's a myth or maybe it’s not a myth some people say you can't have any leaves in the water.

Lorna Mierke [00:35:05] That's right. You take the leaves off the stem. If it's going into the water because it will rot quickly. Yeah.

Caitlen Cameron [00:35:17] That's helpful.

Lorna Mierke [00:35:19] Yes.

Caitlen Cameron [00:35:19] I have left them before and the water has gotten so stinky that I have to take them out and then reevaluate.

Lorna Mierke [00:35:26] Yeah. Yeah. Well, take the leaves off before you arrange, and always cut the stems because you buy it in the grocery store or wherever florist. They've been sitting around for a long time and, you know, a day or two and always, always cut it beforehand. And put it…

Caitlen Cameron [00:35:56] And cut at a diagonal right?

Lorna Mierke [00:35:56] And you can cut it in diagonal. Yes. Because if you figure it out, you know that a diagonal makes the water come up to stem a lot faster.

Caitlen Cameron [00:36:14] Really? Well, I guess that makes sense.

Lorna Mierke [00:36:15] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Caitlen Cameron [00:36:19] That's helpful. Yes, thank you. [crosstalk]. And I appreciate that a lot.

Lorna Mierke [00:36:23] You're welcome. Yeah.

Caitlen Cameron [00:36:25] So, is there anything different that you would do for Ikebana than a regular regular display?

Lorna Mierke [00:36:33] Oh, yes. As I said, you follow the rules. I should show you the book that I have. Let me show you before you leave. Okay? There is a Ohara School curriculum that you follow. As I say, you learn the basics and you can do anything after that. It takes quite a number of years to learn everything there is to do in Ohara School of Ikebana, or any school, Sogetsu School, Ikenobo School. Ikenobo School is more classic arrangement. Ohara School is more naturalistic, recreating that which you would see ordinarily in your garden. But there's a method for that and a combination of materials is important. You know, if you mix a daisy with something that looks like a daisy, it's not conducive to an exciting arrangement. You choose textures and texture versus line versus. Smooth texture, a leaf, a flower, a lime, a branch, whatever, you learn a lot by doing that.

Caitlen Cameron [00:38:33] That's really interesting too because I looked into them just a little bit. I think I wanted to know what makes it significant. But that's interesting that you want to put the same, the same you want it that different flow?

Lorna Mierke [00:38:50] Well, yeah, yeah, yeah, and color blocking is important, too, as I said earlier. Color, texture, movement, line, all of that is involved with that. And once you're aware of that, you become more proficient in arranging. So it takes a while to learn all of that sometimes for some people, it takes years. You know, that's why I continue I go to workshops for Ikebana International and Ohara School of Ikebana and Sogetsu School. Because you learn something every time. You think you know it, but you really don't, [laughs] because everything changes everything, every combination is different, every combination.

Caitlen Cameron [00:39:57] So have you directed a lot of classes for the Garden Club on Ikebana?

Lorna Mierke [00:40:01] Yes, I have demonstrated for the Village Garden Club maybe half a dozen times or more than that really many, many years I've done it at least every other year since I've belonged to the Village Garden Club, but I haven't done it recently.

Caitlen Cameron [00:40:28] So when you teach it, does everybody understand?

Lorna Mierke [00:40:32] No, you explain it as best you can and people will say, 'oh, that was fun'. [laughs] That was a good exercise.

Caitlen Cameron [00:40:45] Do you have anybody that followed you that wanted to do more?

Lorna Mierke [00:40:49] Yes. Yes. A couple of members have joined Ikebana International or Ohara School. Yeah. Which is nice.

Caitlen Cameron [00:41:03] That's cool.

Caitlen Cameron [00:41:03] I try to persuade a number of other people too, but their lives are busy too. Barbara Shockey is one. She came to a couple of classes and she said, "Oh, that's not for me." You know, some people get hooked, and some people don't.

Caitlen Cameron [00:41:24] She's an amazing woman and so I'm sure she would do great at it. But, it is it does seem like it takes a lot of dedication and time and practice.

Lorna Mierke [00:41:34] And practice yeah.

Caitlen Cameron [00:41:40] Well that's good. So, you also mentioned before the president when was that?

Lorna Mierke [00:41:44] Yes, oh, here. 19... Look how many presidents over. Oh, here we are, 1973, '75 to '75 then I was oh I don't have my glasses. I was president twice.

Caitlen Cameron [00:42:40] Really?

Lorna Mierke [00:42:41] Yeah. I was President once and Vice-President once, yeah, they don't list the Vice-President.

Caitlen Cameron [00:43:01] So what was it like to be President of the Club?

Lorna Mierke [00:43

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