Abstract

This oral history interview with Lottie Pilat and Jeannette Kolis explores the experiences of long-time Tremont residents. The interview delves into their memories of the area, focusing on changes in the community brought on by urban development, including the construction of freeways that displaced many residents. Pilat and Kolis discuss the ethnic diversity of the neighborhood, their family's businesses, the impact of the freeway on local commerce and social life, and their views on the evolving demographic and economic landscape of Tremont. The interview also touches on their personal histories, including their upbringing, community engagement, and reflections on social changes over the decades.

Interviewee

Pilat, Lottie (interviewee); Kolis, Jeannette (interviewee)

Interviewer

Becerra, Ben (interviewer)

Project

Tremont History Project

Date

10-12-2003

Document Type

Oral History

Transcript

Ben Becerra: This is an interview by Ben Becerra; a student at Cleveland State University. I’m interviewing Ms. Lottie Pilat and her friend Jen Kolis, regarding Tremont.

Ben Becerra: Umm, my first question, in either order, umm, when did you move to Tremont?

Lottie Pilat: Well, I was born on Clark Avenue–

Ben Becerra: Ok

Lottie Pilat: and then um, uh my dad uh, had a store on west sixth street but then they moved from there and uh, they moved to Clark, so what he did was he opened a store on literary until they found a place on fifteenth street where the store and the house was connected and that’s where uh, we been, uh, we’ve lived uh, until the freeway took over.

Ben Becerra: Ok

Lottie Pilat: Yeah

Ben Becerra: Ok so you moved into a house on Clark avenue you said?

Lottie Pilat: No, we, we, [cough] my dad found that place on west fifteenth street; and uh we’ve lived there oh I don’t know, I ss, it must’ve been from about uh, cause I was born in twenty five I don’t know how long before they moved on fifteenth street you know. But uh we lived there until 1964 when the state bought over the property and uh, and kicked us all outta there.

Ben Becerra: Okay, they kicked you out for the Freeways.

Lottie Pilat: That’s right

Ben Becerra: Okay umm, what was it like, when, I mean how many people would you say was it, a lot of people were getting kicked out of their homes so they could–.

Lottie Pilat: Oh, yeah you had a what part of west fourteenth street around branch avenue west fifteenth street, west sixteenth street, seventeen, Sadie, all of those streets all of those people up to umm, I think it was uh whether it was beyond castle no I think it stopped around castle avenue over there because I think castle is still there if I’m not mistaken or part of castle anyhow, I don’t even remember.

Ben Becerra: Umm, What were like the, the general attitudes, were a lot of people upset?

Lottie Pilat: Yes they were because a lot of ‘em were uh already uh retired, there homes were paid up for, they expected to live there ‘til they die, and uh, that’s it just hurt a lot of people. It really did and I noticed that a lot of ‘em that moved they didn’t live long after that. Cause we, we, we, used to try to keep track with some of our neighbors you know and so and so died. This one died and I says well I says that’s what happened they were probably, I know my mom felt bad she says all my memories are there, you know.

Ben Becerra: Mm hmm, did um, when they were moving did a lot of the people say they plan on staying in, in Tremont or–

Lottie Pilat: Well, they couldn’t find anything, yeah they couldn’t find anything, there.

Jeannette Kolis: They didn’t give ‘em much money either.

Lottie Pilat: No they didn’t, they paid for the land not your property.

Ben Becerra: They didn’t, oh, they didn’t give you money for your house or what you had put into the house ( )?

Lottie Pilat: We had a business, they didn’t pay, they says they don’t pay for the business they just pay for the prop, er, the land.

Ben Becerra: Shew, wow, and the business had to shut down?

Lottie Pilat: Yeah.

Ben Becerra: Umm, Miss Kolis–

Jeannette Kolis: Mm hmm

Ben Becerra: When did, when did you move to Tremont?

Jeannette Kolis: Uh, Well, we always lived in Tremont, when my parents immigrated from Poland in 1910 and 1911, they lived on Telton court and then west seventh street and then we moved uh my parents bought a home on Professor avenue between Jefferson and Starkweather and we stayed until 1971 when we moved to uh west 102nd near the airport, west ninety, 192nd near the airport.

Ben Becerra: You moved out in seventy one?

Jeannette Kolis: Pardon, yeah, we moved out in seventy one, that’s when the neighborhood really was goin down.

Ben Becerra: What, what did you notice?

Jeannette Kolis: Uh you know the streets needed cleaning the houses were being repaired, and, and uh my sisters had the opportunity to get the money from work, you know they, they worked uh together in one place and uh when they were, they usually get profit sharing, so they were able both to take some money out and we bought a new home out, by the airport.

Ben Becerra: Umm, when, when, the freeways were built, they were built in the early seventies, correct?

Jeannette Kolis: Sixties

Lottie Pilat: Sixties, yes cause we, we uh, cause we left sixty four, so that’s when then they were yeah, so it was in the uh the sixties is they, they were working on it.

Ben Becerra: Okay umm,

Lottie Pilat: Late, It could have been the late sixties by the time they you know start uh.

Ben Becerra: Okay, uh, we’ve heard Ms. Pilat give her views on ( ) , on what the freeway did to the area, Ms. Kolis, do you, do you feel the same way, do you feel the freeways um ?

Jeannette Kolis: Well, we weren’t effected by the freeway.

Ben Becerra: You weren’t?

Jeannette Kolis: No, uh-uh at that, you know, at that time, so we just wanted, you know, something better, and uh we had the opportunities and then we took it.

Ben Becerra: Umm, Miss Pilat, umm, do you remember any uh, shopping areas you enjoyed, umm, in the Tremont area?

Lottie Pilat: Well, everything was pretty good there we had drug stores, we had uh, uh grocery stores, we had these uh family grocery stores, you know in fact there was one on the next block uh um, behind um mentor avenue and um also a you had uh, uh like uh, uh there was like a uh dry good store, uh I remember it was Zukaricks, and uh we had doctors, dentists, funeral directors, churches, you had everything there; and now your churches are suffering because people have moved out and the parishioners kind of dwindled down, you have our Lady of Mercy, Saint John Cantius uh Saint Augustines uh what is that, and there’s that um, I think it’s a Lebanese church that’s right on fourteenth and uh, uh stark weather, a holy spirit church or holy ghost they called it there this is holy spirit here and uh that dwindled down that’s that where my neighbor belonged the one I was uh talking about uh she belonged over there and she said they have a very small uh parish now, you know, and uh, course there was that Ukrainian church right on uh, what is that um, uh college wasn’t it, college and seventh?

Jeannette Kolis: Yeah, yeah, Saint Peter and Paul.

Lottie Pilat: Yeah, Saint Peter and Paul, and uh, you had a lot of churches there, different nationalities, every, Greek church that assumption church right on Fairfeild and then uh Saint Theodocious. The historical with the its now uh, what a, considered uh yeah Saint Theodocious that one over there that you can, and uh, there were a couple other churches too there I believe, there was a polish national.

Jeannette Kolis: Yeah, I was once talking to a girl in work, she was a Jewish girl and I said, “you know Tremont’s got all kind of ethnic churches and all you know other religions,” she said I bet you don’t have a… a [laughter] synogogue.

Ben Becerra: [Laughter]

Jeannette Kolis: It never dawned on me, it never dawned on me, I said that’s true.

Ben Becerra: So there was never a synagogue huh?

Lottie Pilat: No

Jeannette Kolis: But we had uh, you know, all the other uh churches.

Lottie Pilat: We had different uh, we had a hardware stores close by right on fourteenth street you had a hardware store there, you had a delicatessen store you had a dry goods store, and you had uh a drug store which was west fourteen drug, and I think they used to have a fishers there also and that used to be uh a grocery store–

Jeannette Kolis: Hanks

Lottie Pilat: it was, it was right next to uh, uh, the uh, what do you call it uh the Zion evangelical church its right on the corner of branch and uh west 114th, it’s the one with the great tall spire, and um, I happen to see that and I think that it, that, they probably cant afford to even fix that church–

Ben Becerra: Really?

Lottie Pilat: Because they probably lost a lot of their um parishioners to you know.

Ben Becerra: Because of the freeway?

Lottie Pilat: Yeah, a lot of ‘em used to live in the neighborhood you know course, some ’em were our customers cause we had eh, I think it was a, what do you call it, international over there, you know, we had Greek, a Syrian, a Russian, umm Carpathorussian, Polish, Slovak, German, all kinds of nationalites over there.

Ben Becerra: Hmm, Umm, you said your father owned a shop?

Lottie Pilat: Grocery store

Ben Becerra: Grocery store, okay, it was a grocery store, I was just making sure it was just not like uh, now umm, you said you had a lot of ethnicities?

Lottie Pilat: Oh yes

Ben Becerra: In the grocery store that would come through all the time.

Lottie Pilat: Oh yeah mm hmm

Ben Becerra: Okay, umm, could you umm, describe the ethnicities at the time, like when you lived there before the freeways were put in and you umm, and then, what it, what they are now in Tremont, do you know?

Lottie Pilat: Well like I was saying you know, we had uh different nationalities like Russian, Polish, Slovak a German, Greek, one of my girlfriends was Greek and then a um Syrian, umm uh Carpathorussian, or Ruthenian, what they call ’em, I don’t know, it was something like that, and uh Ukranian, and um, everybody seemed to get along, and now, I don’t think you have that there.

Ben Becerra: No?

Jeannette Kolis: The Korean church there now.

Lottie Pilat: Well the Korean took over the Polish National church

Ben Becerra: Mm hmm

Lottie Pilat: On West fourteenth street

Jeannette Kolis: What’s across the street from Corpus?

Lottie Pilat: But that’s a Catholic church now. Huh?

Jeannette Kolis: What’s across the street from Corpus?

Lottie Pilat: Corpus?

Jeannette Kolis: Yeah the Korean church, isn’t there, there’s a Korean church across the street.

Lottie Pilat: Ohh, that’s over here though, yeah.

Jeannette Kolis: Oh, yeah

Lottie Pilat: But uh, the, the, one uh, the Polish national church, I think it, they sold it to a Korean, uh to Koreans and it’s a Korean Catholic church over there, because they moved out, and umm, so, a, like I say, everybody seemed to get along and you know whatever and, and uh, now, I don’t know what’s there, tell the truth, I, I, I don’t know, really, you know, cause there, so many people that were thrown out of there property, even that West fifteenth street alley, we had that, wha’d we have, we had Auburn bakery there, it was one of our umm bakers that came around, and um, I used to like it ‘cause we could always smell the bakery over there [laughing] and that we used to call the west fifteen alley, ‘cause it was a, you know a narrower street you know, that’s gone, and umm, uh ‘course that was behind like Saint Augustins, I don’t know part, maybe part of it is there yet or not, Im not sure, I never went there to see, but, I know some of that was taken away as far as Branch avenue, uh, uh rather Auburn avenue, Auburn avenue. And uhh, but umm, lot of those people, I’m, so many houses that went, oh gee, it was–

Jeannette Kolis: They’re talk, they’re talking now about extending I-71 you know to West fourteenth that’ll get rid of a lot of people too now and you know the neighborhood is sort of up in an uproar about that.

Ben Becerra: Mmm hmm

Lottie Pilat: You know then, then they wonder why people, they say people are running away to the suburbs, well where you gonna go?

Ben Becerra: Right

Lottie Pilat: I mean, they threw us outta there.

Ben Becerra: Right

Lottie Pilat: We probably would’ve been still livin’ up there, even if we wouldn’t of had the business, we would’ve closed the business down, and maybe ff, refurbished the place or something and, and stayed there, because that was a nice neighborhood.

Ben Becerra: Right

Lottie Pilat: People kept up their property nicely and everything and, and uh, I don’t know, its just, its just sad. Its really said.

Ben Becerra: It’s terrible

Lottie Pilat: And umm, Just like they’re building a lot of these you know like town houses and everything else. Did you see, did you see those in the paper too? They look like a bunch of boxes.

Jeannette Kolis: Did you see those in the front where their painting blue red and they look like boxes right next to it, it was a set, yesterdays paper.

Lottie Pilat: Yeah it was in yesterdays plain dealer, right on the front page. Yea, Those other town houses look nice, but the other ones, you know, the other ones are, I don’t know, I don’t think Id like to live in on of em.

Jeannette Kolis: You know the neighborhood’s changed now, because they have all these famous restaurants like Lola’s, and– Lottie Pilat: Yeah, Yeah

Jeannette Kolis: all of those you know all the yuppies can afford them the people that live there, cause my girlfriend still lives there uh couple of em still live there she says they cant afford to go to these restaurants because they have uh you know they’re so expensive and uh you know oh gee, so she says that it just and they got so much of that art stuff there now, well they have a, ah, art work uhh walk today in, in Lincoln Park.

Lottie Pilat: ( ) it’s in Tremont Yeah. Yeah, they’re havin’ that

Ben Becerra: So you think its like, would you say its becoming a more upper class area, now?

Jeannette Kolis: Like where my girlfriend lives, they uh, they fixed up a few houses, she lives on Tremont Avenue, and she says that it seems like they come to work here, by the weekend their you know goin wherever their wa, used to, uhh you know like, maybe their from out of town because alotta licenses plates were from outta town, and uh, uh, uh the house on the other side of her was refurbished and you know rents have gone up to like 800 dollars a month, th you know the people that are still livin there, they’re getting pushed out little by little and now they sold that union gospel press building on west seventh street, that big complex, and their talking about building condos in their or apartments and, and taking and the one lady said to this fella “well your going to need parking” I exposed my house, these houses on uhh, uh west sixth street? Or somewhere around that border–

Lottie Pilat: Something ( )

Jeannette Kolis: They, they’ll have to take those for parking, there’s no parking for any of these restaurants when uh Cantius this, uh, Saint John Cantius had their festival, they were parked all over, you know, the festival people were parked all over and wh, uh, the uh uh restaraunts opened up, there was no really place to park but on the streets.

Ben Becerra: Saint John Cantius, is that like a yearly festival?

Jeannette Kolis: Yeah

Lottie Pilat: Yes,( )theyhaveathreeday…

Jeannette Kolis: A three day right before, uh, uh, labor day.

Ben Becerra: Umm, now do prior residents of Tremont usually attend that festival, people that moved out?

Lottie Pilat: Oh, Yeah, I do, I go there.

Jeannette Kolis: O yeah

Lottie Pilat: See I don’t belong there anymore, I belong over here.

Jeannette Kolis: We were there, all three days we went for the ethnic food.

Lottie Pilat: We, we always go, every, every year we go there, meet the old timers and everything else you know.

Jeannette Kolis: Well the old timers don’t seem to be going because, you know it was just a new crowd this year, I didn’t see any of our friends because they’re passing away.

Ben Becerra: Sorry to hear that.

Lottie Pilat: Yeah, they always have a lot of bakeries there, like Jefferson bakery and Diddo bakery and uh, which was a bakery, that bakery on K Kenilworth.

Jeannette Kolis: It was always designated, you goin to the Polish bank or the Ukranian bank? [laughter]; And you know like there was like two of everything, like, when we lived on Professor there was one on uh literary and Professor, uh drug store and docs at our, our place, which was real nice and we had groce, mom and pop grocery stores and and just about everything.

Lottie Pilat: Well, you had photographers there, remember we used to have this uh–

Jeannette Kolis: I mean it was just like a city, well at one time they said, when they took the via-dock down, that there was no way of getting into Tremont.

Lottie Pilat: Well they could’ve built another one.

Jeannette Kolis: Well they built that I490 or whatever it is now.

Lottie Pilat: That’s well that’s–

Jeannette Kolis: And they built that uh I71

Lottie Pilat: But uh that bridge well that was, it, it was good for us because we were able to walk over the bridge and be downtown you didn’t even have to take any uh, kind of uh, you know cause we didn’t have cars in those days you know?

Ben Becerra: Right

Lottie Pilat: And uh, we just walked that wooden bridge we called it and we went du we went downtown, and I think that’s when uh, uh, wasn’t it a uh, uh, streetcar, when that, when the bridge uh, uh, caved in?

Jeannette Kolis: The Detroit Superior bridge?

Lottie Pilat: No, no, no the West fourteen bridge?

Jeannette Kolis: Oh I don’t, that I don’t remember.

Lottie Pilat: Yea I heard uh, that’s what I heard you know that uh, that uh went down, and, why couldn’t they just build another bridge? and that would’ve been great. See cause uh, it would’ve been even closer for me to go downtown instead of taking Scranton road when I was working in uh in the rose building at Western Union. And umm, I umm, had to take the wes, uh, the Scranton bus, and go down Scranton road and through that umm lift bridge over there that was sometimes up when the ship was going through and you had to wait and you were late…

Ben Becerra: [Laughter]

Lottie Pilat: But uh, it was close to town, and people went shopping, a lot of em walked, the same thing with west 25, they used to go to the market, they’d walk on abbey bridge, you know, no problem.

Ben Becerra: My grandmother used to live, actually my, my mother’s family was raised on west fifty second and my grandmother was uh, like a pillar at uh Saint Stephens church…

Lottie Pilat: Oh

Ben Becerra: She was Polish so, she loved her church, she passed last summer unfortunately, great person. Umm, do you recall any uh major retail chains, coming into Tremont like a Wal Mart, or an Uncle Bills?

Jeannette Kolis: Yeah, but they could use it now

Lottie Pilat: Nooo, but they could use, they could use a supermarket there or something.

Jeannette Kolis: They don’t even have a gas station, my girlfriend has to go all the way up on Clark…

Lottie Pilat: Clark avenue.

Jeannette Kolis: Clark avenue to go to a gas station. They don’t have a dry-cleaners, that too is uhh, one of the worst, she goes to Auburn cleaners wherever they’re at on Pearl road, or wherever.

Lottie Pilat: They’re over here, c, they’re called Camelon now.

Jeannette Kolis: Yeah they had everything.

Lottie Pilat: And they their used to be a cleaners over there every, like I said, we had everything there. Before because you know it was uh family owned, you know a lot of these families they owned these stores you know and that’s where, where it was. You had, you had everything there. And uh–

Jeannette Kolis: The good thing that’s uh happening now, is they have this little uh, what’s that bus line called?

Lottie Pilat: Oh, that communicator.

Jeannette Kolis: That, yeah, they could catch that anywhere you know and she could at least go, uh, you know like up Clark if she has to go to a drug store, she has to go all the way up on twenty fifth and up br uh Memphis there.

Lottie Pilat: Now see, they used to have a drug store there–

Jeannette Kolis: To go to get her prescriptions for her sister and her self.

Ben Becerra: She has to go all the way up there huh?

Lottie Pilat: Yeah, and they used to have a drug store right on Literary and Professor. They had one on

west fourteen street, now there’s nothing, nothing there, it just, it just seems like you know everything just um disappeared.

Ben Becerra: You say that there’s…

Jeannette Kolis: And they, Oh excuse me, and my girlfriend they go to these meetings, you know they have periodic meetings asking the residents what they need there and they tell’em all this: “we want stores, we want uh little shopping centers somewhere,” they could get rid of those projects that have– they refurbished those and they’re, they’re, they’re in such bad shape they’re their going to build them up again. Now, they don’t need that there. They could, uh they could have a nice little shopping center for them with you know the needs that they need but she said they don’t listen, they just don’t listen to them.

Ben Becerra: There’s, there’s, th, housing projects you were saying?

Jeannette Kolis: Yeah, Valley view housing projects.

Lottie Pilat: I think that’s what brought the properties down too over there.

Jeannette Kolis: They used to be nice back when it was like in 1940, uh what was it about forty, in the forties they built those, they were so nice and clean and that’s when you know, so I said we moved out of there because they were just a mess, and they refurbished them, they become, they’re a mess again, now they’re talking about taking them down and building uh condos or some such, or some public housing and some private housing.

Ben Becerra: Ok, now um, you said there’s still, people still living in the projects?

Jeannette Kolis: I don’t know–

Lottie Pilat: That I don’t know.

Jeannette Kolis: If its totaled, I don’t know, because we haven’t been down there.

Lottie Pilat: But there, they don’t look too good either over there either, last time I saw yeah.

Ben Becerra: Umm, and you said, they were built in the forties?

Jeannette Kolis: Uhh, pretty sure they were built in the forties, I don’t think any of these books talk about that.

Ben Becerra: Ms. Kolis has a series of uh books…

Lottie Pilat: She saved a lot of that stuff there you know.

Jeannette Kolis: East Tremont–

Ben Becerra: Newspaper Clippings–

Jeannette Kolis: Yeah, I got the Church all the churches they’ve got there, and uh all about union gospel press because I worked there after school.

Lottie Pilat: Yeah, she used to work there.

Ben Becerra: Cindy’s bar–

Jeannette Kolis: Yeah, that was uh, that uh that’s friends of ours, Cindellas is uh is the real name but they called it Cindy’s bar.

Lottie Pilat: Yeah they used even have that uh dry cleaner right on Literary, what was the name again?

Jeannette Kolis: Oh, Kertz.

Lottie Pilat: Kertz, yeah Kertz.

Ben Becerra: Is, Is Cindy’s bar still there?

Jeannette Kolis: Uh, no, there, I think one of those fancy restaurants are there. I don’t know which one, cause they keep closing and opening new ones and you just cant like Miracles, I don’t even know that they’re still there.

Ben Becerra: Cindy’s bar was at uh?

Jeannette Kolis: West eleventh and uh Fairfield.

Lottie Pilat: No, Mira, Miracles used to be right on uh, what is it west tenth?

Jeannette Kolis: Yeah, west tenth and uh–

Lottie Pilat: Well they’re not there anymore.

Jeannette Kolis: I thought they were.

Lottie Pilat: I think its somebody else, I think its somebody else.

Jeannette Kolis: Yeah, I, I saved all of those things.

Lottie Pilat: Well, I remember Savages uh pharmacy. You know right on the corner of Kelinworth and uh ()

Jeannette Kolis: That’s when they were tryin to redevelop Tremont, they issued that book.

Ben Becerra: Who lived in the uh, in the projects, I mean were, were there a series of ethnic groups or ( )?

Jeannette Kolis: Well, my uh, My cousin when she got married, she uh lived there, and they were very, very nice. And uh, but then after a while, different set people.

Lottie Pilat: ()

Ben Becerra: Would say recently, more recently, there was African Americans living there?

Jeannette Kolis: Ah huh.

Ben Becerra: Ok, and, is that when things started going…

Jeannette Kolis: Up there.

Ben Becerra: They started going bad there?

Jeannette Kolis: Down there, mm hmm.

Ben Becerra: Umm, do, now, what, what did you notice about the projects, since umm, the arrival of Afr, or, the arrival of African Americans living there, uh, just the upkeep? Or was it–

Jeannette Kolis: Well, they–

Lottie Pilat: I think it’s the upkeep

Jeannette Kolis: The upkeep. Ben Becerra: Upkeep?

Jeannette Kolis: Ah huh, and I , I think they had their own, uh, like, uh, well not a government but uh, they tried to govern themselves or something, but I don’t know.

Ben Becerra: Ok, they were acting, I mean?

Jeannette Kolis: Yeah they, well they, I guess they tried to run the place

Ben Becerra: Oh, ok.

Jeannette Kolis: Which I don’t know how they how that happened.

Ben Becerra: Umm, did you notice anything since African Americans lived there, umm in the streets, did the streets, were they dirty, were their cars in the streets?

Jeannette Kolis: They were just starting you know when we moved away, and we just hardly ever went back,

you know to visit. But, ahh, some of my girlfriends used to say you know how bad it is down there.

Lottie Pilat: See, she lived closer to the projects than I did.

Ben Becerra: Oh, ok.

Lottie Pilat: See I was on west fifteenth street. We didn’t have any you know, cars were mostly European.

Jeannette Kolis: They were down ss, uh, ss, what seventh and Starkweather, there and we were between Jefferson and Starkweather.

Ben Becerra: Oh, Ok, umm, did crime go up, did you notice?

Jeannette Kolis: I think so, yeah, I think there was a murder or something down there.

Lottie Pilat: I heard yeah, I heard, once in the pa, I saw it in the paper once.

Becerra: Umm, now I know that Stokes was elected in uhh, was it 63, I believe, he was the first black mayor of Cleveland did anything umm, happen you know in that area when, when stokes was elected in the projects, do you recall?

Jeannette Kolis: I don’t know anything about that.

Ben Becerra: No?

Jeannette Kolis: Mm, mm

Ben Becerra: Were there…

Jeannette Kolis: But they deserve, you know new housing down there, and, and stores and things like that they those people deserve all of that.

Ben Becerra: Really?

Jeannette Kolis: Mm, mm

Lottie Pilat: Its really surprising that they don’t have any like grocery stores and they used to have, right on Professor, they used to have a–

Jeannette Kolis: Oh yeah, we had stores all over the place

Lottie Pilat: And now they have nothing, we had hardware stores over there, I remember on Professor street you had also dry good stores, you had beer joints of course you always had that, you restaurants, you had ah, ah, what do you call it ah drug stores, you had two of ‘em I think–

Jeannette Kolis: Yeah, we had two of ‘em on our street.

Lottie Pilat: There were two of em on Professor, and uh, then you had hardware store, remember ah…

Jeannette Kolis: Chefreinsky’s

Lottie Pilat: Chefreinsky’s, yeah you had photographers, C, Colletta, and uh, Ublinsky and uh, then there was a Sarnesky’s grocery store, right on the corner what, what is there now?

Jeannette Kolis: Oh, that tree, uh, mmm, where that murder was, the cop, you know, killed somebody there, there where, I don’t know, they came to rob it.

Lottie Pilat: It’s right on the corner of Literary and Professor. Across from our, from the church there.

Jeannette Kolis: And you wonder how they got a permit to be right across the church. Cause the, our pa, didn’t uh, Father Ralph try to buy the property, behind it, you know when they, they took down a whole bunch of houses, and he wanted it for extra parking, I don’t know whether he put a bid in it or what but somebody you know, I think that uh, whatever that what kind of name, kind of a tree it is, the name of the place, and uh, but they use it now for the parking lots.

Ben Becerra: Mm, um, of all these areas, all these shops, umm, Ill ask Ms. Pilat first and then Ms. Kolis, did you have a favorite, favorite like your family was there a set place you, you and your family would go to eat on Sundays or?

Lottie Pilat: No, we ate at home [laughter]. We didn’t go to restaurants.

Ben Becerra: Really? Was there a fav, a favorite family umm event, anything you guys would do that you could, you could think of, any traditions?

Lottie Pilat: Well like our, our, Easter traditions and Christmas you know, those were are usually, stick, stick with the family you know.

Ben Becerra: Right.

Lottie Pilat: And uh, either between relatives or whatever you know, like that, cause our relatives were always close you know, now, lord knows [laughter], they’re so far away, your goin over to auntie Sofas she’s on twelfth street, okay, your goin to uncle John, he over there on Clark avenue. So they were all close you know.

Ben Becerra: Yeah

Lottie Pilat: And umm, but now, well the cousins are way out.

Ben Becerra: They’re all gone.

Lottie Pilat: Yeah so, no we didn’t go to restaurants, uh, our, our restaurant was home [laughter].

Ben Becerra: That’s good, that’s good, its not like that anymore.

Lottie Pilat: The only, the only thing is, you know, like when I was goin to school well during the winter time, you know it was kind of bad goin home to eat. You know, cause I had quite a distance to go anyhow, I used to cut through Lincoln Park, and umm, but then my mother says “well, you take either a lunch” so sometimes she fixed me a lunch, and we had that, and we just got our milk at school and then uh or else there was uh restaurant I think it was close to umm Fairfield there. There was one restaurant and then there was one I think it was across the street from the school, so sometimes I would go to one or the other you know, just, that’s for sch, just during sch, lunch hour. You know, cause I was goin to the uh Saint John Cantius uh elementary.

Ben Becerra: Mm hmm,

Lottie Pilat: Yeah, so, but like I say, I feel bad because umm, you know I been in Europe three times already, and I see what they do to old homes, they try to refurbish them and keep them up, here you had mansions on west fourteenth street, the Rippage mansion, that where Tolmein funeral home used to be, that was a mansion that went down, there was uh, a mansion uh, like uh, on west fourteenth street also, cause that, that used to be uh millionaires row, my brother used to call it…

Ben Becerra: Right.

Lottie Pilat: Yeah, uh that’s what they uh, I think there was another name, it was Jennings, Jennings, I think that’s what they called it, yeah and uh, but there were nothing but mansions around there, and it was one big one and I remember when they were tearing it down. I felt so bad, I said, it was such a beautiful mansion, it had uh the roundest windows like, you know, and those walls were really thick and I saw that ball bouncing, because we had a back porch so we sit there sometimes and I just shook my head I says, “They don’t do those things in Europe” [Laughter].

Ben Becerra: Where was that at?

Lottie Pilat: West fourteenth.

Ben Becerra: West fourteenth, they don’t do that over there.

Lottie Pilat: And then they had uh, across the street, they had uh, I don’t know what they would call that, is that a, like a penthouse?, Or something you know it was uh, umm more than one family, or something that went down to–

Ben Becerra: Mm hmm

Lottie Pilat: on account of the freeway. All of that went down, but uh, well they even used one Mansion for a play. I mean for a movie once, They, it was right on uh fourteenth and uh Bure, was it Bure? I, I don’t remember it now, anyways, it was it was where the freeway starts around there near, as you go to the hospital, you know, right around there.

Ben Becerra: Mm hmm

Lottie Pilat: And that’s, that same movie, I think they used uh they had at uh, Saint Theodocius, you know the Russian orthodox church.

Jeannette Kolis: The Deer Hunter

Lottie Pilat: Yeah, Deer Hunter

Jeannette Kolis: ()

Ben Becerra: Ms. Kolis, did, any set place, I know you, you have uh–

Jeannette Kolis: No there weren’t any restaurants near us, the only restaurants we did, when we went downtown, go to a show, or to the palace or somewhere, we stopped in at Care’s or someplace you know out there, but we did, we only ate at home.

Ben Becerra: Mm, umm

Lottie Pilat: Well, we had a Jennings theater, didn’t you go there? [laughter]

Jeannette Kolis: They had nothing to eat, well popcorn and what not. [Laughter] yeah, no we didn’t go anywhere.

Lottie Pilat: Yeah, well, that’s what I said, we had a theater there too, right on fourteenth street.

Jeannette Kolis: The cousins would come over and you know for lunch, they’d eat by our house.

Ben Becerra: Mm, When the freeway was built, how, how close was it to the, the projects you were talking about earlier?

Lottie Pilat: Mm mm.

Ben Becerra: It wasn’t close at all?

Lottie Pilat: No, no, we were further away

Ben Becerra: Ok.

Lottie Pilat: Yeah.

Ben Becerra: Ok.

Lottie Pilat: That was more down towards the valley.

Jeannette Kolis: Yeah where they have that I 490 now, that’s right through the projects.

Ben Becerra: Mm

Lottie Pilat: And that’s not too far away from the uh, uh, St. Theodocious Russian orthodox church.

Ben Becerra: There, there’s a, a freeway goin through the projects?

Jeannette Kolis: Well around on quincy all of those streets, on Quincy–

Lottie Pilat: You come up that way, you know

Jeannette Kolis: West seventh, Quincy, and then you go up through Broadway on it, yeah.

Ben Becerra: Do you um, have any recollection of when Stokes was elected, the uh, the reaction, just the public, I mean anything at your job, how people were reacting since he was the first black mayor?

Lottie Pilat: No, I don’t, I don’t recall anything.

Jeannette Kolis: I worked for city hall at that time.

Ben Becerra: Did you? Oh.

Jeannette Kolis: And I really we were really didn’t like him at all.

Ben Becerra: You didn’t like Stokes?

Jeannette Kolis: Uh, Uh Not to us anyhow–

Ben Becerra: Really?

Jeannette Kolis: I didn’t like him–

Ben Becerra: Was he um–

Jeannette Kolis: I didn’t like Kucinich either.

Ben Becerra: You didn’t like Kucinich.

Jeannette Kolis: Cause, Ku [Laughter], I was there from uh, Let’s see, what the heck was his name? All the way to Voinovich, I started in 1950 with the city, uh, what was that Irish, uh, uh mayor, Burke, I was from Burke all the way to Voinovich.

Ben Becerra: Wow.

Jeannette Kolis: Mm hmm, we saw so many changes at the hall.

Ben Becerra: Really?

Jeannette Kolis: Especially during Kucinich, and uh Stokes uh years.

Ben Becerra: Were they, uh, like what did you notice during the Stokes years? Ill ask you about Kucinich after.

Jeannette Kolis: Uh, well, you know I worked for civil service at the time–

Ben Becerra: Uh huh.

Jeannette Kolis: No I didn’t, I, but I, I worked at the hall in another department, I was fortunate enough to get a transfer out of there. And uh, we felt like um, they were sort of changing the civil service rules.

Ben Becerra: Huh, Stokes was? What did you notice?

Jeannette Kolis: Well I had, uh, uh, my former supervisor, she st, was still working in civ, in civil service and uh, she said, “boy if I could only write a book” that would tell you all.

Ben Becerra: Wow, umm, would you say that uhh, that he was catering to the, to the black residents?

Jeannette Kolis: I guess, mm hmm.

Ben Becerra: Just, ok, umm, what didn’t you like about Kucinich?

Jeannette Kolis: Well, you know, I don’t, I, its hard to you know, explain him, with the, the Gordina sisters and, and all those other you know, people he had working for him, oh it was a circus; And he knows that I don’t like him, cause every time he sees me somewhere you know he’ll just smile and I’ll smile back.

Ben Becerra: [Laughter] He’ll recognize ya.

Jeannette Kolis: Oh yeah.

Ben Becerra: Yeah, I met Kucinich once.

Jeannette Kolis: Mm hmm

Ben Becerra: My grandma did a lot of lobbying for Dennis Kucinich, he used to go to her card parties at St. Stephens; and he came in one time, I was in–

Jeannette Kolis: Yeah, he came to all the Cantius card parties. That’s where I met him all the time.

Lottie Pilat: Yeah, he came to, he always came to, to the festival to.

Jeannette Kolis: He always comes, he always comes–

Lottie Pilat: Passin out his–

Jeannette Kolis: He had little leaflets

Ben Becerra: [Laughter] Could be runnin for president.

Jeannette Kolis: Yeah, I know, isn’t that something? Good for him.

Lottie Pilat: Well, look who they got in California, so what are you gonna do? [laughter]

Ben Becerra: Yeah, I couldn’t believe that one.

Lottie Pilat: Well that’s, that’s their problem.

Jeannette Kolis: You ever been to California? They’re really different over there. Very Much.

Lottie Pilat: That’s their problem.

Jeannette Kolis: Anything goes.

Ben Becerra: [Laughter} I used to live there for two years.

Lottie Pilat: Really?

Ben Becerra: Yeah, San Diego.

Jeannette Kolis: Ohh, I never got down that far.

Lottie Pilat: I didn’t go there.

Jeannette Kolis: They say its nice there.

Lottie Pilat: Yeah its, but it’s really sad you know that that the way everything just disappeared over there. I don’t know.

Ben Becerra: Is there anything left though? Uh, Sokolowski’s.

Lottie Pilat: [Laughter} He’s there, thank goodness he’s there yet, I think he’s hangin in.

Ben Becerra: [Laughter]

Jeannette Kolis: He’s still on t.v. cooking

Lottie Pilat: Yeah, [laughter]

Jeannette Kolis: What channel, uh twenty five, they uh, my sister was watching them again today.

Lottie Pilat: But there aren’t too many of the other stores that are–

Jeannette Kolis: Oh, no there all gone.

Lottie Pilat: Yeah, that’s all gone practically. Jeannette Kolis: Because uh–

Lottie Pilat: They used to have that uh, Polish daily news there too, and that’s gone, they used to be on Fairfield.

Jeannette Kolis: Everything’s gone.

Lottie Pilat: Yeah.

Ben Becerra: Do you remember umm, where uh, teenagers would go on dates?

Jeannette Kolis: Uh uh

Lottie Pilat: No.

Ben Becerra: Hang on a sec.

Lottie Pilat: I don’t even remember whether they uh, ever went out on dates [laughter] our parents were kind of, you know.

Ben Becerra: Yeah

Jeannette Kolis: They all met at the you know the dance, the parish dances, or, or–

Lottie Pilat: Any parish affairs.

Jeannette Kolis: Picnics, or things like that.

Ben Becerra: Ok

Jeannette Kolis: Uh, huh, neighbors, they married neighbors, you know, a neighbor married a neighbor and.

Lottie Pilat: Or they go to a theater, they used to go to theaters a lot, you know together or something, like Garden on west twenty fifth, and um Marvel I think was there too, and then Jennings was right on fourteenth, so, pretty much.

Ben Becerra: Any uh, any areas where children used to play, do you remember?

Jeannette Kolis: Lincoln Park

Ben Becerra: The park?

Lottie Pilat: The park, the schoolyards

Jeannette Kolis: And the sch, the Tremont schoolyards, we, cause I know I played there, and Lincoln Park.

Ben Becerra: Mm hmm

Jeannette Kolis: And uh, I think there was ah, some kind of a playground down there on west seventh, but I, I don’t remember too much about it.

Ben Becerra: Is it there now?

Jeannette Kolis: No, I don’t know, they have some kind of playground there now, I don’t know which kind though, but this was just for the kids.

Ben Becerra: Mm hmm

Jeannette Kolis: And they used to have like little craft things for us to do, at, you know in the Tremont uh, school area, yeah, that’s about all, we didn’t have any pools like the you know, the kids now, they all have to have pools and they have to have this and that.

Ben Becerra: Mm hmm

Jeannette Kolis: We just made our own fun

Ben Becerra: Yeah

Jeannette Kolis: You know, played in the streets or you know, the old games like it and kick the c can and all those uh–

Lottie Pilat: [Laughter]

Jeannette Kolis: Huh, games

Lottie Pilat: We made up our own games, that’s the way it was, you know.

Jeannette Kolis: We were happy, I guess we didn’t know any better.

Lottie Pilat: A lot of ‘em went to Lincoln High School over there, the, on their school grounds or, Scranton school you know right there they had their grounds, or else they played in their own yards; that’s what they used to do, yeah–

Jeannette Kolis: That’s what we’d do, yeah, mostly.

Lottie Pilat: You know, or on the street [laughter].

Ben Becerra: [Laughter]

Jeannette Kolis: That’s it

Lottie Pilat: Yeah, they used to play ball on the street.

Jeannette Kolis: Who had that many cars? Nobody had cars.

Lottie Pilat: Yeah, ( ), well our place was busy because of the trucks comin in and stuff like that you know, ( ), to the stores you know, like bakery trucks, or, or the horse and wagon [laughter], or the iceman. [laughter]

Jeannette Kolis: Yeah, oh yeah, the iceman, that was fun.

Lottie Pilat: Yeah, Mr. Miller and his ice truck [laughter]

Ben Becerra: [Laughter]

Jeannette Kolis: I used to go down with a, dinky old wagon, with a rag, you know a ah carpet, and go down west seventh street there to keep the thing from runnin away, cause you know it west seventh goes like this and we’d uh, uh, wait for the guy would come “how many, how many pounds do you want?” usually it was like twenty five, so we’d cover it, and, and drag it home. Then, then the iceman came home after that you know you had the uh, uh, things delivered to the house; and uh, so that was–

Lottie Pilat: Yeah, we had–

Jeannette Kolis: Then you had to empty that water all the time, or you had it flooded, when the neighbors went on vacation, they sort of hired me for ten cents because they had a dog to be fed and an icebox to be emptied, you know, the water underneath.

Ben Becerra: Right, right.

Lottie Pilat: Yeah the bakers they had um, ah, a horse and a horse and buggy, you know, I remember that you know and we–

Jeannette Kolis: Tell him about the horse that found his own way [laughter]

Lottie Pilat: Oh Yeah, horse made his rounds, all the way around, and the driver was looking for his horse, he was in the beer garden. [laughter]

Ben Becerra: [Laughter] The horse was in the beer garden?

Lottie Pilat: No, no, no the man was in the beer garden but his horse made his rounds, and he went back to the bakery [laughter]–

Ben Becerra: [Laughter]

Lottie Pilat: No driver. [laughter]

Ben Becerra: Wow, where was that at? That was on?

Lottie Pilat: Our store, you know, no, no, a lot of these you know, they, they use, they used to talk about this you know, especially, I think it was Ditto’s, Ditto’s bakery, and they hat that um, or, horse and uh buggy you know, and I think, I think, somebody told me about it you know, that there’s this driver stopped at a beer garden you know, and the horse stood there for a while, and he sort of figured, well, go to the next store, so he kept on goin around until he got back into the bakery.

Becerra [Laughter]

Lottie Pilat: He knew his route. [laughter]

Ben Becerra: [Laughter]

Lottie Pilat: And the driver didn’t know what happened to him. [laughter]

Jeannette Kolis: We used to have watermelon man comin down the street, s, he had that song, you know he’d be singin, that he was comin down.

Lottie Pilat: Yeah, watermelon, watermelon.

Jeannette Kolis: And the knife sharpener fell out.

Lottie Pilat: And rag man too.

Jeannette Kolis: And the, Oh, yeah the paper regs man. In fact, somebody uh, on the uh, near west side they wrote a book it, and they called it the paper regs man. That’s what he used to say, the paper, instead of rags he used to say regs, because uh, I used to ask my mother I says uh “where did the women work, you know when they came from the old country?” and she said at the rags factory; we could never figure out what they did at the rag [laughter] remember?

Lottie Pilat: Recycle, yeah recycle.

Jeannette Kolis: Oh, god.

Ben Becerra: Umm, and when was all this, would you say was this in the, the forties?

Jeannette Kolis: Thirties, Forties.

Ben Becerra: Thirties, Forties, oh, ok.

Jeannette Kolis: Yeah, the depression was, pretty bad, you know, well Ill just tell you this of the cuff, but you know these people that are on welfare now, they get everything, when we were, we were, it was called relief when we were on relief, because my father died in thirty six, and he worked at the old, oldest steel mill down in the valley, and uh, he was, he had two bad accidents there, and uh he got cancer in both of those locations, in the head and in his pancreas. But uh, we were on relief, we had to go as children, mind you, children,–

Lottie Pilat: Mm hmm.

Jeannette Kolis: Take a wagon, go to pilgrim church, wait for them to give us, I forgot what we got, grapefruit, uh, oatmeal which I hate to this day, you know, you’d have to make cookies with stuff like you know, the, stuff, that’s all we got–

Ben Becerra: Right, right.

Jeannette Kolis: And we were sorta like, ostracized because people you know who had still jobs and stuff like that uh, you know they would, the kids would come by and make fun of you, you know that your waiting you know, for r relief.

Lottie Pilat: And even the boys were let out of school a little earlier because you know because they were selling papers–

Jeannette Kolis: Cause there were certain days.

Lottie Pilat: Selling papers, and some of em also went with their wagons you know and so then the sister used to let em out you know, the teacher.

Jeannette Kolis: We got nothing, now they get everything.

Ben Becerra: How is it, umm now you said now its, well its welfare now is what its called, how do you, how is it different now?

Jeannette Kolis: Well they get everything, they’ve got uh, they come to the store with those uh stamps–

Lottie Pilat: Coupons

Jeannette Kolis: Cou, you know, and they buy everything, I mean there just, some, uh those uh ,uh, carts are just loaded with stuff, we didn’t get anything, we had to wear hand me downs. They get free coats, now how many coats can you get? Or this blankets that they collect now, how many blankets can you have you know from year? We save ours from year to year. I mean they get everything, they get fr, uh rent subsidized, they get everything. I know my uh, my girlfriend, she taught at an all black school somewhere she says that she would just give em paper and pencils, the next day they would come for more pencils and papers and, you know its just something like this, that’s what bugs me the heck outta that welfare system now.

Ben Becerra: Right, Would you say that it’s, most of the people that are on it–

Jeannette Kolis: Well, there’s everybody now you know, white, black, and, uh, uh, the Puerto Ricans, everybody.

Ben Becerra: Yeah

Jeannette Kolis: You know, they don’t have, what a, like Saint Augustine church, uh, in the Tremont area, they uh, you know, they all, they always have these dinners, I think they have them daily.

Lottie Pilat: I think so to.

Jeannette Kolis: We didn’t have that.

Lottie Pilat: I used to take our, our food collection there sometimes, until uh, Saint Vincent Depaul took it over and there, ah sending it out wherever you know, they need it, you know?

Ben Becerra: Mm hmm

Jeannette Kolis: Yeah, we had, we had a tough time because when my father died in thirty-six–

Lottie Pilat: Jobs were hard to get.

Jeannette Kolis: Yeah, and he only was allowed to work like once a month in the winter, so we could have coal, you know for the stoves.

Ben Becerra: Right.

Jeannette Kolis: Cause you, you know they, they didn’t have any work.

Ben Becerra: Wow

Lottie Pilat: And my brother going to college to you know, he worked, he worked in his free time, to make money, he went down to horshaw chemical to work over there, somebody stole his bicycle there, cause he used to take his bike down there, and uh, some of em used to even sell like rat poison, door to door, just to make money so they can go through school you know?

Ben Becerra: Sure, sure

Lottie Pilat: Yeah, so its really like nothing new, I mean they had to do it to, you know, in order to pay their tuition.

Jeannette Kolis: Oh yeah, they get free college to, cause m, my nephew when he graduated from uh, uh, high school, he wan, they wan, his father took him down with, no not his father, I don’t know who the heck he went down with, to uh, Ohio State,uh, uh, you know, try to get a scholarship to go to school, well he says that uh he and a uh couple other white kids were standing around when a bus full of blacks pulled in, and they went right in. You know that they’re getting scholarships and everything. In fact, the lady next door was telling me about uh somebody was trying to get into Duke, he, he wanted, uh, I think he was taking ah, ah me, medical school, he wanted to go to medical school, he wanted to get a scholarship, and they just told him point blank “you’re the wrong color.”

Ben Becerra: Wow.

Jeannette Kolis: And that’s the truth

Ben Becerra: Duke told him, he was a white kid, and they told him “your the wrong color?”

Jeannette Kolis: Yeah, that’s the way it goes nowadays.

Ben Becerra: You think–

Jeannette Kolis: So finally my nephew, he’s now at MIT.

Ben Becerra: Well, that’s good.

Jeannette Kolis: He had a full scholarship, that’s a, he’s a, he’s a bright kid.

Ben Becerra: Yeah

Jeannette Kolis: And he wanted to go to Ohio State, but he say’s, you know they didn’t, they didn’t take him, so–

Ben Becerra: So its like um, you think its an issue then that there’s?

Jeannette Kolis: Sure it is

Ben Becerra: Blacks who get funding for school, who get uh more grants and they get admission because their black?

Jeannette Kolis: They do, ( ),they sure do. Everybody knows it.

Ben Becerra: Do you, do you have any parallel stories, umm, where, where you’ve, you’ve noticed uh, black students or black uh, black people getting special treatment?

Lottie Pilat: Well no, because uh, like I say, we didn’t have many blacks in our neighborhood or anything like that you know, and uh, I uh, I worked with blacks, there were some that were good, and some that were kind of you know uppity, you know they didn’t want to have anything you know, to do with you or, there was that situation they had over there, in that, what, what is that area again, where they had that um problem?, black area, and um, I know, at work, you know that happened to you know, where some of em would just uh, be kind of snotty with you, you know, just because your white or whatever.

Ben Becerra: Right.

END OF SIDE A

Ben Becerra: O.k, you said, you, you were working…

Lottie Pilat: Yeah, when I was working at uh, at the telegraph company you know I work in the bookkeep ( ), in the bookkeeping department and uh, I, I ran out of some forms, so I went into the store room and I talked to, it was a colored fella, and we were always on good terms, you know cause he used to, he used to work down at the main counter, but then he got down into the store room and uh, so I asked him for forms, and I used his first name–

Ben Becerra: Right

Lottie Pilat: I’m not gonna mention names, ok, and he says uh, my name is Mr. so and so, and uh, I says ok Mr. If you have these forms, would you kindly bring them to me.

Ben Becerra: Ok.

Lottie Pilat: So when he came to the office, uh, he says uh, Lottie, I have your forms. I says wait a minute, my name is Ms. Pilat.

Ben Becerra: Mm, hmm.

Lottie Pilat: I just went right back, I don’t care, you know, I said, I figure, you treat me that way, Ill treat you the same way.

Ben Becerra: Right

Lottie Pilat: But you know, there are some that were very nice. I have, I have no problems about some of em that I worked with.

Ben Becerra: Mm hmm.

Lottie Pilat: There were some, you know, that uh, at first, you know, they didn’t like some of the people, the white people that were there. But umm, I tried to help this one, and umm, she kinda took a liking to me, and I took a liking to her.

Ben Becerra: Mm hmm.

Lottie Pilat: Like I say, you know, if you, your treated right, you treat others right too. If they don’t treat you right, well then, like this one here, I always called him by his first name and nothing happened, but this particular time, that’s what happened, and I so I figured, well I’ll show you too. [Laughter] I’m that way, I cant help it.

Ben Becerra: Yeah, umm, as they relate to Tremont, umm, do you think, is there more black people in Tremont now than there ever was, would you say?

Lottie Pilat: Yes, I think there are, well see a lot of em go to the uh, that public school to you know–

Jeannette Kolis: The Tremont school.

Lottie Pilat: The Tremont school, yeah, and um, I don’t know about Scranton, because I, I, haven’t heard much there, but I imagine there’s more in the area now, you know then there were before, and then, probably in the schools, and also Lincoln High.

Ben Becerra: Right. I don’t know who had mentioned, uh, if it was Ms.Kolis or Ms. Pilat, um, that the prop, you think that it has something to do with the property value going down, because uh, the upkeep, or?

Jeannette Kolis: I don’t know, well when we sold our house in seventy one, we got 8,000 for it; and it was a well kept home, in fact, when they were re-developing, they used to show our house, you know cause we always had it painted, my mother, even though she was a widow and couldn’t speak English, she had that, she ( ) knew what to do with the house, it was always painted, the fence, I used to hate the f., hate that fence with the white tips, you know, cast iron fence in front, and she’d sit on the one side and I’d sit on the other, we’d paint the thing, and she knew when the gutters needed to be cleaned, and, and, uh, uh, you know everything, uh, uh, uh, had to be taken care of.

Ben Becerra: Um

Jeannette Kolis: But it was shown, it was shown there that you know uh, uh, uh, the people should like follow, uh, you know somebody else’s example to keep up their property.

Ben Becerra: Right.

Jeannette Kolis: But we only got 8,000 for that house, and when the real estate guy saw it, he called from our house, to his office, you know and uh, made the offer right then and there, that was when we moved you know near the airport, we kept our property, a lot of people, everybody at that, at that time kept their properties up–

Lottie Pilat: Yeah, I think a lot of those older, old timers, they really kept up their property, I know uh, all our street, in the west fifteenth street was very well taken care of–

Ben Becerra: Mm hmm

Lottie Pilat: And any of those street like sixteen street and Auburn, or Branch, Branch avenue, those were close by around there, everybody kept up their property you know, mostly the old timers, they bought the house and they wanted to keep it up you know, not, not just to let it go down you know?

Ben Becerra: Right, right, right, right.

Lottie Pilat: You pay for it, you, you take care of it too.

Ben Becerra: Do you have any children Ms. Pilat?

Lottie Pilat: No I never married.

Jeannette Kolis: No, I’m single, never married.

Ben Becerra: Single never married, um reason I was asking that, I was noticing you know that now, especially in areas like Tremont, there, there is, you know, um, a series of black people, and there’s also, still you know um, a good white population there to, and they’re starting to mix, and I, I’ve noticed uh interracial dating uh, where you’ll have a white woman with a black man or a black woman with a white man, its becoming more common, um, how do you feel about it?

Jeannette Kolis: Well its there choice.

Lottie Pilat: That’s it.

Ben Becerra: Really?

Jeannette Kolis: Yeah.

Ben Becerra: Its just their choice?

Lottie Pilat: Yeah.

Ben Becerra: Do you think it’s more common now–

Jeannette Kolis: Oh yeah.

Lottie Pilat: Oh Yeah

Ben Becerra: than it used to be? Really?

Jeannette Kolis: Its more common now, you never knew anybody before.

Ben Becerra: Yeah, that was black?

Jeannette Kolis: Mm hmm.

Ben Becerra: Um, let’s get back to the church, we didn’t discuss the church enough, did you, did you atten, you attended a Polish church correct Ms. Pilat?

Jeannette Kolis: Both of us, same church.

Lottie Pilat: Same church.

Ben Becerra: Same church, What, what language was the uh mass in?

Lottie Pilat: Well, it would be Polish, mostly at the beginning, and then later on–

Jeannette Kolis: And then Vatican too changed it–

Lottie Pilat: Yeah English–

Jeannette Kolis: Then they, turn, you know, turned to uh, English.

Lottie Pilat: But they still have one mass in Polish.

Jeannette Kolis: Yeah, there’s a lot of, there’s a big DP, displaced persons uh, that are still Polish and uh they attend that church now.

Ben Becerra: Oh, ok.

Jeannette Kolis: Mm hmm, so they have to have one.

Ben Becerra: Ok, do you still go to that church?

Jeannette Kolis: No, I, I, we, I belong to Corpus Christi, same with her.

Lottie Pilat: Yeah, same here.

Ben Becerra: Oh, ok.

Lottie Pilat: It’s over here on Pearl road.

Ben Becerra: In Parma?

Lottie Pilat: No, that’s in Cleveland–

Jeannette Kolis: In Cleveland, Pearl and uh, Archwood, and places like that.

Ben Becerra: Did you, did you tell me the name of the store that your father owned?

Lottie Pilat: Pilat’s grocery [laughter]

Ben Becerra: O.k. Let me write that down, I don’t–

Lottie Pilat: I shouldn’t say Pilat’s grocery, I mean, yeah that’s what it was.

Ben Becerra: Do you still go to uh, Tremont at all? For anything?

Lottie Pilat: Oh yeah, whenever Saint John Cantius has anything we go there and, and uh, sometimes we go to the, to uh this restaurant over there, University Inn.

Jeannette Kolis: I still visit my friends there cause I have, you know, school friends when we all grew up with, they’re still there.

Lottie Pilat: They’re still living there yeah.

Ben Becerra: ()

Jeannette Kolis: Mm hmm, they keep their houses too, yeah.

Lottie Pilat: I like to go down there just to see what’s, what’s goin on, see what’s building

Ben Becerra: Yeah

Lottie Pilat: I wonder what they’re going to do with that Salvation Army, uh–

Jeannette Kolis: Oh yeah, the Gospel press.

Lottie Pilat: The Gospel press–

Jeannette Kolis: Yeah

Lottie Pilat: I thought they were gonna knock it down and, and use–

Jeannette Kolis: Oh it was huge, I worked there after school, yeah, we got a good training there, you know, they were strict those uh, uh, that uh–

Ben Becerra: Salvation Army?

Jeannette Kolis: Yeah, no it’s not the Salvation Army, we used to call it the Sally’s–

Ben Becerra: Oh, o.k.

Jeannette Kolis: It isn’t, it’s the Union Gospel Press.

Ben Becerra: Oh, o.k.

Jeannette Kolis: Uh, uh, they were originally from Pennsylvania, and uh, uh, I think the Musselman family brought ‘em here to Cleveland and they ss, they oh, you know started a printing business, you know books and tracks, and they had a little book store at the time. Their now on Broadview and uh Brookpark. But they sold that huge building.

Ben Becerra: Oh, o.k.

Jeannette Kolis: Mm hmm

Lottie Pilat: There was one artist there wasn’t he?

Jeannette Kolis: Yeah he owned the thing–

Lottie Pilat: Stan, and then he sold it.

Jeannette Kolis: He was a metal worker

Lottie Pilat: A metal worker, yeah.

Jeannette Kolis: Yeah, he got a million something for it, it is huge.

Lottie Pilat: He’s well set. [laughter]

Ben Becerra: [laughter]

Jeannette Kolis: Hey that was a good, we all worked there after school, all the kids, that all my girlfriends worked there. But we had good, we, we learned a lot there.

Ben Becerra: At uh, Tremont high school?

Jeannette Kolis: No, at Union Gospel Press.

Ben Becerra: Union Gospel Press.

Jeannette Kolis: Mmm hmm, yeah.

Ben Becerra: Did you go to Tremont high school?

Jeannette Kolis: No, no, ah, Th, the, it was Tremont elementary, I went, we both went to Saint John Cantius school–

Ben Becerra: Uh huh.

Jeannette Kolis: And then I, I went one year to Lincoln High School–

Ben Becerra: Uh huh.

Jeannette Kolis: But then I uh transferred to West Tech, and that’s where I graduated from.

Ben Becerra: From West Tech, I kn, Is that still there, West Tech?

Jeannette Kolis: West Tech?

Ben Becerra: Yeah.

Lottie Pilat: No I think it’s down.

Jeannette Kolis: No, it’s now gonna be all apartments.

Lottie Pilat: Yeah, they tore it down.

Ben Becerra: Wow.

Jeannette Kolis: Mm hmm, yeah.

Jeannette Kolis: Yeah, that was such a nice school.

Lottie Pilat: Yeah, I started at Scr–

Jeannette Kolis: It was one of the best schools in Cleveland in fact.

Lottie Pilat: I started at uh, Scranton, because there was nobody to take me to Saint John Cantius; until my cousin Ted, he was in the eighth grade so used to always take me down, cause I was just a youngster.

Ben Becerra: Mm hmm.

Lottie Pilat: My mother was afraid to let me go by myself you know, probably get lost, And uh, so I started I think in, yeah it was the third grade in uh, Saint John Cantius–

Ben Becerra: Mm hmm

Lottie Pilat: And graduate through eight, and then I went to um, it used to be Saint Josephs Academy and since there art two of em, they changed it to Marymount, it’s in Garfield Heights, and that was an all girls school. Now it’s Trinity because it’s uh, co-education.

Ben Becerra: Right.

Lottie Pilat: So, but uh, now, I, I mean they uh, later on they built a high school there at uh, Saint John Cantius.

Jeannette Kolis: Oh yeah, Cantius had one–

Lottie Pilat: Yeah, Saint John Cantius high school.

Jeannette Kolis: In forty-five, in forty five.

Lottie Pilat: In fact that’s where Kucinich went to school. [laughter] Ben Becerra: [Laughter]

Jeannette Kolis: Do you believe that?

Ben Becerra: Did he uh, now I know he’s a t, he’s a former attorney, and he used to be mayor, do you know where he went to law school?

Jeannette Kolis: He’s not an attorney.

Ben Becerra: I heard he was an attorney.

Jeannette Kolis: No, he’s not an attorney, never was.

Ben Becerra: I didn’t know that.

Jeannette Kolis: Mm mm

Lottie Pilat: His brother is running for something.

Jeannette Kolis: He ran for councilman while I was still working at, at, at city hall. I remember, I came home from vacation, I don’t know where I was, but there was, my sister says “the city called, they want you to come and deliver uh,’ you know, and I was a civil service employee, I wasn’t a temporary employee, I wasn’t uh, uh, a political employee, and uh, I, I had to go the next day to give out these, uh, ss, I don’t where we, we stood at one of the voting booths in Tremont, giving out, you know the, who to vote for, and stuff like that. We couldn’t do anything about it. You know we complained, why should we be uh made to uh, give out these uh election things; well it was either that probably or your job.

Ben Becerra: Right, right.

Lottie Pilat: Yeah, that’s what happens when you work with politicians. [laughter]

Ben Becerra: [Laughter]

Lottie Pilat: I’m glad I never did. [laughter]

Ben Becerra: [Laughter]

Jeannette Kolis: Yeah it was ( ) an education.

Ben Becerra: Who do you um, who do you put the blame on, for, for Tremont’s demise for the f, for the freeways being built, who do you, who do think is at fault?

Jeannette Kolis: Just the freeways mostly.

Lottie Pilat: The state.

Ben Becerra: The state?

Lottie Pilat: Well that really a state, a state highway.Isn’t it?

Ben Becerra: Yeah.

Jeannette Kolis: Yeah.

Lottie Pilat: So that’s what they would um–

Ben Becerra: Who, who was congress person at the time, in the early seventies, do you remember?

Lottie Pilat: No.

Jeannette Kolis: I don’t remember at all, I wasn’t that interested in stuff.

Ben Becerra: I wonder, I’m just, I wonder if they, it they put up a fight, to not have the treeway, uh freeways built because–

Lottie Pilat: I think the people did more griping than, than, than anybody else than the politicians.

Ben Becerra: Because in Shaker Heights, at the same time, they were going to build freeways, the residents said no, and they didn’t build those freeways.

Lottie Pilat: Well, the residents said no to over there, and they did it.

Ben Becerra: I wonder if it was the congress person’s fault–

Lottie Pilat: It could have been, you know, it could have been political.

Jeannette Kolis: What the heck was uh, I cant, I cant remember–

Lottie Pilat: I remember that Bentley, but I don’t know whether he was than, at that time, or not. Who was after him?

Jeannette Kolis: Belinsky that’s councilman–

Lottie Pilat: Belinsky.

Jeannette Kolis: I want to say congressman, he’s going into federal government.

Ben Becerra: Belinsky was councilman?

Jeannette Kolis: Belinsky was councilman, I don’t know.

Lottie Pilat: I don’t know, I don’t remember Belinsky.

Jeannette Kolis: I don’t know either who was at the time.

Lottie Pilat: I remember like some like Ripich, Ripich was one, and I don’t remember whether he was at that time or not.

Jeannette Kolis: Hmm, I don’t know.

Ben Becerra: Would you ever move back to Tremont?

Lottie Pilat: Where?

Jeannette Kolis: No, I would never.

Ben Becerra: You wouldn’t?

Lottie Pilat: There’s no place, where?

Ben Becerra: Hmm

Lottie Pilat: I mean when we were, when we were looking for a house, you know like, my mother says “ look for something that’s all on one floor” No upstairs and, stuff like that, you know, because it’s like cleaning two houses.

Ben Becerra: [laughter]

Lottie Pilat: Well we were looking around in the Cleveland area you know, and a lot of ‘em were duplexes–

Jeannette Kolis: Yeah.

Lottie Pilat: You know and uh, we didn’t want anything like that. You know, the real-, I had more trouble with one real estate agent, I’m telling you, he even told me, he says “you don’t know what you want” I says, I know what I want, but your not listening. [Laughter]

Ben Becerra: [Laughter]

Lottie Pilat: I even took him down to the house and I says “this is what I want, If you can find something like this,” you know, like my house, our house that we had on fifteenth”

Jeannette Kolis: Well if you wanted to move now into Tremont, you know they built those skinny houses on–

Lottie Pilat: Town houses

Jeannette Kolis: Uh, what they call the west seventh street Ridge–

Ben Becerra: Mm hmm

Jeannette Kolis: And uh, you know their real tuh, uh skinny, like uh, they used uh, the houses were uh, close, where we lived where Professor, and uh, they their selling under 300,000.

Ben Becerra: Shew.

Jeannette Kolis: And I don’t know what those boxes that they showed in yesterdays paper. They said they very expensive, but they didn’t elaborate, ah, you know, they just had the picture but no cover story on it.

Ben Becerra: Wow, hmm, umm–

Jeannette Kolis: And it’s too congested ( )–

Lottie Pilat: See and most of those houses are big houses, you know their either two story or–

Jeannette Kolis: Yeah, we had a two story–

Lottie Pilat: You don’t have any, like a, like a bungalows, like these here you know or–

Ben Becerra: Mm hmm.

Jeannette Kolis: Ranch

Lottie Pilat: We were even trying to get into Brooklyn some where’s you know but um, it was hard to find anything.

Jeannette Kolis: Oh yeah, it always was.

Lottie Pilat: I didn’t want to move to Parma, don’t tell that to my mayor. [Laughter]

Ben Becerra: [Laughter] Uh, Miss Kolis, you, you, lived farther, further away from the freeways?

Jeannette Kolis: Yeah, we did

Ben Becerra: ( ) When they were constructing the freeways, umm, do you remember um any harassment of workers, do you remember anything, did, did business pick up because of all the workers leaving the shops, Sokolowski’s–

Jeannette Kolis: Mm hm

Ben Becerra: You don’t recall?

Jeannette Kolis: No, uh, uh, didn’t even know they were there–

Ben Becerra: Wow.

Jeannette Kolis: ‘till the thing was you know, finished, no I didn’t, never went that way.

Ben Becerra: Mm.

Lottie Pilat: Yeah, it was a shame that all those close, those stores closed down around there. I don’t even know if those, any of those stores are occupied. I think there’s only a flower shop on west ninth.

Jeannette Kolis: Well Chavrinsky’s now is uh, one of the health stores, health uh, uh, clinics.

Lottie Pilat: That used to be a hardware store.

Jeannette Kolis: And colonial hall, I don’t think it’s there anymore. That used to be a clinic or something down there. I don’t know what they all are.

Lottie Pilat: And the library home was sold–

Jeannette Kolis: Yeah.

Lottie Pilat: the one on Kenilworth.

Jeannette Kolis: I have no idea.

Lottie Pilat: Well Pelton, Pelton, uh,–

Jeannette Kolis: Apartments.

Lottie Pilat: Apartments, yeah that’s that’s shut down to. So I don’t know everything’s getting kind isolated, why, I don’t know. But, I cant understand West fourteenth street, you know, I uh, those stores that are standing up there, I don’t think they’re all occupied, doesn’t look like it.

Jeannette Kolis: I don’t see Noga’s Florist, is there any more? Is he?

Lottie Pilat: I think Noga’s there, but I mean like, West fourteenth drug, that’s gone; and uh the those other stores we had that wallpaper store that was there–

Jeannette Kolis: Well it uh most of those uh restaurants took over a lot of things.

Lottie Pilat: But you don’t see any activity around there.

Jeannette Kolis: I don’t know.

Lottie Pilat: Boy that place used to be busy, I’m telling you. Ben Becerra: And now it’s, just a few scattered–

Lottie Pilat: To me, I don’t, I don’t, I don’t see much activity over there. I know that that one store on the corner of uh Auburn and uh Fourteenth, I think they opened up over there but I don’t know what they have there. But uh, there where the hardware store was, I don’t think it, I don’t know what’s there now.

Ben Becerra: Hmm.

Jeannette Kolis: I remember walkin through there, just go to ch, to the church or by Joe’s house and back home.

Lottie Pilat: And there where that uh Sucarrick’s used to be, that um dry good store, well there’s just an empty space there now, there’s nothing. I don’t know if it burned down or what, you know, or maybe vandalism or something.

Ben Becerra: Right.

Lottie Pilat: And there’s a few other stores but I think they’re taken, I think uh, up uh going towards Starkweather.

Ben Becerra: So aside from a few nice restaurants, there really isn’t much activity.

Lottie Pilat: They have so many restaurants, I don know why they put up so many restaurants there when they could use like uh, like grocery stores for the people that live around there.

Ben Becerra: Right.

Lottie Pilat: You know, and uh, drug stores, you know, they need those things–

Jeannette Kolis: You know–

Lottie Pilat: Where are they?

Jeannette Kolis: When we were growing up they used to call it the flats, “oh you live on the Southside” you know, I says I dont, now they call it the historic Tremont area–

Ben Becerra: Right.

Jeannette Kolis: But when we lived there–

Lottie Pilat: Yeah they used to always, call it all kinds of things–

Jeannette Kolis: “Oh, you live in the slums.” Yeah.

Lottie Pilat: It wasn’t the slums either, it was nice.

Jeannette Kolis: No, it was nice and clean.

Lottie Pilat: Look, look at Lincoln Park they used to have concerts over there–

Jeannette Kolis: Yeah at the bandstands, I used to play on the bandstands.

Lottie Pilat: They don’t have the bandstands there anymore.

Jeannette Kolis: I know, they got the gazebo, they have a pool there now.

Lottie Pilat: Yeah, there was always something going on over there.

Ben Becerra: What would you say was the, was the main contributor to it’s demise?

Jeannette Kolis: Well the freeway, I uh, I believe it was, and a lot of people just wanted to get out. We, especially when they married, they didn’t uhh, well a few of them did live in the neighborhood, but uh most of em went out. This uh, and the area here, or, or around uh, like Gifford and uh around uh Memphis area, they all just moved away.

Ben Becerra: Mm hmm, hmm.

Jeannette Kolis: Mm, that’s what did it, but–

Lottie Pilat: Well actually, there weren’t uh, any homes to buy up there either–

Jeannette Kolis: No.

Lottie Pilat: cause they were all occupied. So where were they gonna go when they get married?

Ben Becerra: Right.

Lottie Pilat: You know, if they, if they, found a home, you know well that was good like my cousin uh, uh, K Kasey and uh and Lottie–

Jeannette Kolis: Oh yeah

Lottie Pilat: Well see they, they, they, uh um, what is it uh, Jefferson isn’t it? Jefferson.

Jeannette Kolis: Oh yeah.

Lottie Pilat: Yeah they, they lived in that Jefferson house over there; and the bakery was over, I und,I understand they took that bakery down.

Jeannette Kolis: Yeah, they did, they’re remodeling that house, they’re remodel everyth, every house they get now.

Ben Becerra: Hmm, that’s terrible.

Lottie Pilat: Yeah they have two brothers that are doing a lot of remodeling up there.

Jeannette Kolis: Yeah, yeah they do, yeah.

Lottie Pilat: There is some of those old houses you know they did remodel ’em.

Ben Becerra: Mm hmm

Lottie Pilat: And uh they look pretty good, people are living there, fine.

Ben Becerra: Mm, Ms. Kolis you were telling me that um, you had a friend that worked in an all black school?

Jeannette Kolis: Mm hmm.

Ben Becerra: It’s, it, it is a friend it, it’s not a relative?

Jeannette Kolis: No, just a friend.

Ben Becerra: Ok.

Jeannette Kolis: Yeah it was, cause I used to say, uh “what school” I forgot what school it was but she says that , even when they had this umm bussing, it’s all it was all black.

Ben Becerra: Oh, ok.

Jeannette Kolis: And she had a trouble with one student–

Ben Becerra: Mm hmm

Jeannette Kolis: I don’t know whether uh, I don’t know whether the student hit her first and Rita slapped him and uh, I guess they took her to court, but the other teachers stood up for her because, that you know, the, the kid was just unruly–

Ben Becerra: Right.

Jeannette Kolis: They must have had her in the class, and they knew what it was, and uh, but she always had headaches, Ill tell you.

Ben Becerra: Wow, hmm.

Jeannette Kolis: And she says they were mostly in the halls fighting, then uh then sit and try and learn something. They’re all, and she said you call the parents up, forget it.

Ben Becerra: What school was that?

Jeannette Kolis: I don’t remember what school it was, it’s somewhere on the east side.

Ben Becerra: It’s an east side school?

Jeannette Kolis: Uh huh.

Ben Becerra: How did um, bussing affect Tremont?

Jeannette Kolis: Well, that Tremont school changed to, cause they were all you know, bussed there.

Ben Becerra: Mm hmm.

Jeannette Kolis: Far as I know. I don’t think the Cantius, or any of the parochial schools at uh, well they weren’t affected by bussing but Tremont–

Lottie Pilat: No we didn’t have bussing.

Jeannette Kolis: I, I think Lincoln High too, I don’t know. I, never, uh, just lost track of those.

Ben Becerra: Hmm.

Jeannette Kolis: Now they’re thinking of uh what, ss, of closing down Tremont school?

Ben Becerra: Yeah, that’s what I heard.

Jeannette Kolis: Where are all of those kids gonna go to school?

Lottie Pilat: There’s no school nearby, except Scranton.

Jeannette Kolis: And they just uh remodeled, they put all those new windows in and doors and everything.

Ben Becerra: Sounds like they need a lot more structural resources in that neighborhood.

Jeannette Kolis: Yeah

Lottie Pilat: I’m surprised that they would be closing it.

Jeannette Kolis: Yeah, it was one of those in the paper listed, and everybody was surprised.

Lottie Pilat: They have a lot of kids around there.

Jeannette Kolis: I know they do.

Ben Becerra: Hmm, that’s terrible.

Lottie Pilat: Sure it is. Well even like, like a, Saint John Cantius, father’s renting out to uh, uh, what is that some Hispanic?

Jeannette Kolis: Yeah.

Lottie Pilat: It’s the old school I think is Hispanic, what’s the other one? I, I think they have some kind of a, uh, either, either, young kids that they probably watch or something like, care or something like–

Jeannette Kolis: Care center, child care center

Lottie Pilat: maybe a day care. Yeah so uh, he rents that out, but the uh old building, where we had our elementary school, I think that’s been taken over by the Hispanics.

Ben Becerra: Mm hmm

Lottie Pilat: They’re, they’re renting over there.

Ben Becerra: Is there um, an influx of Hispanic citizens?

Lottie Pilat: Yeah I think there are.

Jeannette Kolis: Well they’re mostly around Scranton.

Ben Becerra: Really?

Jeannette Kolis: Yeah, at Saint Michael’s church, cause they, they speak, uh, you know, that’s all Spanish. And, I think er, more in that area.

Ben Becerra: Really?

Lottie Pilat: But they are coming in a little bit more to I think. Because isn’t that ch, that used to be a Ukranian church right on uh west tenth street? I think it’s Hispanic now.

Jeannette Kolis: Oh, I don’t know. I know which one–

Lottie Pilat: It used to be–

Jeannette Kolis: used to be right across the church, our church.

Lottie Pilat: No.

Jeannette Kolis: No?

Lottie Pilat: No, this is on tenth street.

Jeannette Kolis: Oh, I don’t know, I’ve never been, I’ve never been down that way.

Lottie Pilat: As your, as your, as your going towards uh, uh, University Inn, uh there was a church over there, I think it used to be a Ukra, I don’t, I don’t know if there was Ukranian orthodox or something. But, I think I, when I passed by there once, I think I saw something in Spanish, on, on the thing there.

Ben Becerra: Hmm

Lottie Pilat: So evidently, you know there kinda like, moving in to.

Ben Becerra: Right.

Lottie Pilat: Yeah.

Ben Becerra: Do you think umm, the influx of Spanish culture, umm, do you think it will help the neighborhood?

Lottie Pilat: No, I, I don’t think it’s going to do anything wrong with it. People probably get along, you know.

Ben Becerra: Right, right. Ms. Kolis, do, do you?

Jeannette Kolis: Well, I think it’s ok. Mm hmm.

Ben Becerra: Umm, anything else you would like to mention about Tremont, Ms. Pilat?

Lottie Pilat: Gees, what could I do?

Ben Becerra: [Laughter] Do you want to go first Ms. Kolis?

Jeannette Kolis: No, I don’t, [laughter], I don’t have anything more to add.

Ben Becerra: [Laughter] Would you like me to show these uh, documents to my teacher?

Jeannette Kolis: Oh, sure, yea.

Ben Becerra: Ill bring them all back to you–

Jeannette Kolis: Yeah, you could have that.

Ben Becerra: Wont be a problem.

Jeannette Kolis: This’ll be interesting.

Lottie Pilat: Yeah that’s that–

Jeannette Kolis: Guy that’s there now; and this was yesterday’s paper, that camp Cleveland. I remember reading about that. [Papers ruffling] I started one of those uh family uh geneology things, and that’s what I had, er, uh, leave it to one uh either my niece or my nephew.

Ben Becerra: That’s nice.

Lottie Pilat: [Looking at paper] Hey isn’t this the one that’s uh, that uh, the rectory of Saint Augustine’s?

Jeannette Kolis: I don’t know, I don’t know. I think they took–

Lottie Pilat: Yeah, yeah, here.

Jeannette Kolis: They took all of these from that book there.

Lottie Pilat: Here, here it is, see that’s a mansion, and now it’s a rectory of the Saint Augustine’s, it says over here on the bottom. I, I didn’t see that. I thought it was that mansion that was close to us that I saw them knockin’ down with that ball you know?

Ben Becerra: This is an article from the Cleveland Press July twenty seventh 1978, titled: Tremont, Efforts are Underweigh to Preserve and restore an Old Neighborhood Rich in Architecture.

Lottie Pilat: [Sarcastically] Yeah, they sure did, they sure did… Now why would they want to, to, those nice mansions, I couldn’t believe it, I couldn’t believe it when I saw it. I says boy, I been in Europe, and I saw, they, they really kept those, they fixed them, in fact, when you went into any of those places, you had to put footpads on–

Jeannette Kolis: Yeah… museums

Ben Becerra: Wow

Lottie Pilat: Because their floors were so clean, you know their, the uh, the wood floors.

Jeannette Kolis: Yeah, they didn’t want you to wear shoes.

Lottie Pilat: They didn’t want you to wear out those you know, and they put uh footpads on you, and you walked in there and you polished up the floors with them. [Laughter].

Ben Becerra: [Laughter] That’s nice.

Jeannette Kolis: [Laughter] They had some beautiful things in there. ( )

Lottie Pilat: Oh yeah, nice mansions and everything else You know. They keep them up.

Jeannette Kolis: Churches and uh, oh everything.

Lottie Pilat: Well look it, during the war, that one uh palace that was uh, that was bombed, in uh, what was it, was it in Warsaw? It was an old palace or something. They redid the whole thing.

Jeannette Kolis: They did the whole square.

Lottie Pilat: Yeah, that War, Warsaw ghetto to, the same thing, the old, old, old uh, city of Warsaw.

Jeannette Kolis: Yeah.

Lottie Pilat: They did the whole thing over again.

Jeannette Kolis: Exactly the way it was.

Lottie Pilat: From the pictures. They had all the pictures and everything else and they rebuilt ’em the same way they were.

Ben Becerra: That’s nice. Did you, you, you, went to Europe together?

Lottie Pilat: Yeah–

Jeannette Kolis: Yeah one year.

Lottie Pilat: One year we went ( ).

Jeannette Kolis: I was there four times because I have relatives yet in Poland. I have cousins by the dozens [Laughter]–

Ben Becerra: Mm hmm

Lottie Pilat: ()

Jeannette Kolis: We still, I still write to them, but now, we, after my mother died, we don’t, we didn’t, we don’t speak Po, Polish you know. We didn’t speak Polish at home anymore. And uh, you know, it’s getting further and further away. So when I write to them now, I have to get a Polish-English dictionary [Laughter]–

Ben Becerra: [Laughter]

Jeannette Kolis: And sit there, cause, you know, there, it’s changed, their language has changed–

Ben Becerra: Yeah.

Jeannette Kolis: Uh, their words are different, and uh, when I went there, I, I was asking this one cousin of mine, I said uh “do you st, study English in school?” and he said “no, just German and Russian.” You know that’s all he says. And I says “well, uh aren’t you gonna go on into education?” and he just shrugged his shoulders. You know, he did, he didn’t know.

Lottie Pilat: I think they have English now though. Yeah because uh–

Jeannette Kolis: I don’t know, this was in the little villages.

Lottie Pilat: Some of ‘em actually went to England to learn English, you know, because uh when I was there, It was uh, I was, my cousin came and she wanted me to go visit her daughter, uh that was in the hospital–

Ben Becerra: Mm hmm.

Lottie Pilat: Well, I had to get permission because I was with a tour. You know, so this uh, fella that was taking care of, you know, from Poland that was taking care of this tour, he says that uh “ I’ll let you go but, bec, I’ll get you a cabdriver that I can depend on.” And uh, so I was talking to the, uh, the fella at the desk, he was a young man, and I was talking to him in Polish, and he sh, just shook like a little, went like this you know, and he turned, came around to the other side. He’s talking to me in English, beautiful English [Laughter]–

Ben Becerra: [Laughter]

Lottie Pilat: And, huh, he told me, he says “I’ll take care of the cab, and uh you’ll get a good cab driver, and he’ll bring you back.” I says “ he better bring me back.” [Laughter]

Ben Becerra: [Laughter]

Jeannette Kolis: Things are bad there. In Poland, the young people are going to France, to Germany to find work, you know cause most of those kids–

Lottie Pilat: Ireland too.

Jeannette Kolis: Don’t have any higher education, not in the villages.

Ben Becerra: Right.

Jeannette Kolis: And uh, like this one uh cousin of mine, he just got, you know they have to go two years to the military in, in Europe, I think all over Europe they have to do that, and uh his mother says he cant find a job, he just sits home.

Ben Becerra: Wow

Lottie Pilat: Well it all depends, if you have an education, cause I have cousins that have education.

Jeannette Kolis: Not my cousins.

Lottie Pilat: One of, one of my cousins uh, granddaughter’s she’s a doctor. Another one’s uh, uh, what do you call um, beautician?

Ben Becerra: Mm hmm.

Lottie Pilat: Um, the, uh, the boy is in, in, something, he’s got something to do with mining, you know and uh I guess minerals and stuff like that, you know, he works in that. But uh, they’re pretty well educated, so they have pretty good jobs.

Ben Becerra: Right.

Jeannette Kolis: And they were all fighting that uh to join the uh European uh Union.

Ben Becerra: Oh, ok.

Jeannette Kolis: They didn’t want it, but uh, you know, it, it, uh, it passed so they have to join.

Lottie Pilat: And their mother was a teacher. In fact, she uh, she asked me to do geneology here for my relat, my uncles and aunts that came from Poland, you know, from the time they came, and to uh, you know to write out, everything and uh the families and all that, and she took care of it from there. So we got together you know on that, and we, kind of compiled from my mother’s side. You know.

Ben Becerra: Have, have they ever come here, your fam, your relatives from Poland?

Jeannette Kolis: They want to come here. But you know how that is. She had a co, a cousin that wanted to come here, but he wanted to live in New York. You know, you cant keep track of them. if they get in trouble, your responsible for, for them. You know, they don’t understand that, I say’s oh, no. Can’t, you know, I cant do that.

Lottie Pilat: I have some of them in Australia–

Jeannette Kolis: Canada

Lottie Pilat: Yeah, one in Canada- and he came here, you know, the one from Australia was here to you know. And um, then um, New York, from my father’s side. I don’t know why they always pick New York from my father’s side. [Laughter]

Ben Becerra: [Laughter]

Lottie Pilat: Either New York or New Jersey [Laughter]

Ben Becerra: [Laughter]

Lottie Pilat: But umm, the, the three boys, are from uh, their, their all in uh Australia. And they, they’re pretty well, going pretty well there too.

Ben Becerra: Wow.

Lottie Pilat: And the one in Canada to. And he teaches music, and he also plays in uh, in uh, you know uh, what do you call it, well, it’s not a big orchestra, but it’s, it’s a, a group of uh fellas that pay, plays for church you know. He plays the uh Viola. And uh, he also uh, I think he works at some company, fiber optics or something like that–

Ben Becerra: Right

Lottie Pilat: Cause he was telling me. You know he calls every now and then–

Ben Becerra: [Laughter]

Lottie Pilat: Yeah, it’s very interesting when you, when you delve into that. But uh, I still write, I still write in Polish. I speak it, but yeah, I kind of lose it sometimes because I don’t speak it that much you know before we used to speak it at home.

Ben Becerra: Mm hmm.

Lottie Pilat: You know, but, I try to read it, you know, I try to read, but you know reading is not like speaking.

Ben Becerra: Right.

Lottie Pilat: I mean you can read it, but uh, when your talking to somebody, cant think of this word. [Laughter]

Ben Becerra: [Laughter]

Lottie Pilat: But it was uh, it was nice living in the Tremont area. I mean in the area that we lived. Because you can understand like, see I cant read Russian, but if a Russian person spoke to me, I can more or less figure out what he’s talking about–

Ben Becerra: Right

Lottie Pilat: And of course Slovak is pretty close to Polish. You know so you can kind of understand that. Czech the same. And umm, German, well, uh, I didn’t speak German, my brother did. He had to learn German because he was in Pharmacy. So he had uh, kind uh, you know, I think it was use languages you know. So he uh, he studied German. He had French, so he spoke in French to, I didn’t, I had Latin, I can’t speak in Latin. By the time I congegate the verb I forget what I was supposed to say. [Laughter] And um, of course uh, like I say, our neighbors, you know, they were like, Ruth, I think they, either CarpathoRussians, or Ruthinians, I don’t know whether it’s the same or not. But um, I understood them, except once, when they, the woman came into the store and she asked for something, and she said she wanted uh “elizonke,” and I was up working in the store you know–

Ben Becerra: Mm hmm

Lottie Pilat: Well the first thing I thought elizonke, it sounds like raisins to me, you know so I’m giving her raisins, and my mother looks at me, she says “what are you doing?” I says “well Ms. Greshko wants raisins, she wants elizonke” she says “noodles”–

Ben Becerra: [Laughter]

Jeannette Kolis: It’s a far cry.

Lottie Pilat: Then it dawned on me, cut-ups–

Ben Becerra: Mm hmm

Lottie Pilat: You know, so that’s noodles.

Ben Becerra: Yeah

Lottie Pilat: See they, they usually use the word “rizach” which is cut.

Ben Becerra: Right, right

Lottie Pilat: I says well, I says “I’m learning.”[Laughter]

Ben Becerra: [Laughter]

Lottie Pilat: But that’s what I like about it, you know you were in with different nationalities, and it was, it was, it was fun. We had some German lady, she came in the store, she says “You know, I don’t understand a word your saying, but it’s nice to hear them talk.” [Laughter]

Jeannette Kolis: [Laughter]

Ben Becerra: Right.

Lottie Pilat: And you know, my mother, well she spoke in broken English, you know so, because you know, she was born in Europe, you know, so she spoke in broken English. But she spoke with the salesman, and she always joked around with him, because she was a big joker too.

Ben Becerra: Right

Lottie Pilat: Yeah, that was, it was, uh, you know it was , I liked it like that. You know it’s, here, you, I don’t know, here you get some neighbors you don’t know what to say to them. [Laughter]

Ben Becerra: [Laughter]

Jeannette Kolis: Well, I, I live in a condo, everybody keeps to themselves, and somebody just moved in there, and he says he can’t stand it, because nobody’s friendly there. And everybody’s just, wants to be out, you know, by themselves. Different–

Lottie Pilat: And we all got to–

Jeannette Kolis: World

Lottie Pilat: We got together, you know, I mean the kids, you know, the different nationalities, I mean, we got along–

Ben Becerra: Mm hmm

Lottie Pilat: Course we had fights, every now and then about something, but then, kind of brushed it off.

Ben Becerra: [Laughter]

Lottie Pilat: My brother used to say: “you do your fighting out there, don’t fight here” [Laughter]

Ben Becerra: [Laughter]

Lottie Pilat: But uh, it was good you know, cause uh, I had a Greek girlfriend, a Russian girlrfriend, uh Ukranian girfriend– [Alarm goes off in background]

Lottie Pilat: I’m timing, because I have to take my, my, pills.

Ben Becerra: Oh, ok

Lottie Pilat: That, that’s what you hear a bird in there. No, it’s not time yet.

Ben Becerra: Ok

Lottie Pilat: Two hours.

Lottie Pilat: And uh, so uh, but you got along, I didn’t speak Greek, but uh we got along anyways.

Ben Becerra: Would different nationalities fight about different things? Would, would you see any–

Lottie Pilat: Well sometimes there would be an argument about something, but you know, they kind of brush it off after that you know you don’t think about it.

Ben Becerra: Yeah.

Lottie Pilat: Yeah so uh, sometimes Ukrainians would say something you know that against this one or that one and you, you hear about it but, ah, you just brush it off–

Jeannette Kolis: We were kids then.

Lottie Pilat: Yeah, but I mean even the adults, some, some of the, they come in the store and complain about something. We used to, I used to laugh because they would come in the store for a quart of milk, and they’d stay there for an hour talking and I’d say “boy that milk is gonna get sour.” [Laughter]

Ben Becerra: [Laughter]

Jeannette Kolis: It was a meeting place, it was a meeting place. Everybody hung around like that.

Lottie Pilat: Yeah, I mean, you know everywhere you went, you went to the drugstore it was the same thing, you know.

Jeannette Kolis: They were nice, cause as I said, you know my father died in thirty-six and I was making my first holy communion the same month, cause he died in April–

Ben Becerra: Mm hmm

Jeannette Kolis: And I was making my communion, and at those times, when you went to the store, they kept it like on a piece of cardboard, you know how much you bought, and at the end of the month they would tally it–

Ben Becerra: Mm hmm

Jeannette Kolis: And you would pay, and you know, you would say it was due. Well, cause we didn’t have much money or anything, I didn’t have, my mother didn’t have money for a, you know, communion dress, but, but this butcher, he uh, he forgave that months payment.

Ben Becerra: That was nice of him.

Lottie Pilat: Yeah we used to have books too you know, it’d have the carbon, on the bottom, you know?

Ben Becerra: Yeah

Lottie Pilat: So we’d take the part off, you know, and the other part was there. And I, sometimes my brother would tally it, if he wasn’t there, well I would tally it. Cause it was hard for my mother when customers were you know, wanted stuff you know and they were talkin, since she would always bring the book into the house you know and just take out two our whatever you know. And some of ‘em paid right on payday, they paid it. Some haven’t paid to this day. [Laughter]

Ben Becerra: [Laughter]

Lottie Pilat: I still have the records. My dad kept the records. [Laughter]

Ben Becerra: [Laughter]

Lottie Pilat: Then my brother started keeping the records. [Laughter] Yeah, so its, but that’s the way it was you know. We had these store books we used to call them. Store books, yeah, and we didn’t have calculators, you had to do it all on our own.

Ben Becerra: [Laughter]

Jeannette Kolis: Yeah, it amazes me now these kids. They didn’t have the change thing that came up and you know into the register, they, they don’t know how to give change out.

Ben Becerra: [Laughter]

Lottie Pilat: No we didn’t have anything like that, we had these old time registers you know, where the thing used to pop up you know, [Laughter] and you had to figure out you know, in your, in your mind, how much to give out.

Jeannette Kolis: Well, everything computerized now.

Lottie Pilat: Use the scales too you know and uh–

Ben Becerra: Yep

Lottie Pilat: And then you have those scales always uh, checked, by the uh, what was it, I think it was somebody in the county–

Jeannette Kolis: Weights and measures, mm hmm yeah. I remember, all of those from work.

Lottie Pilat: But everybody was friendly, even your, your salespeople you know they’re, they’re very nice, you know and they chit-chatted with you for a while. And I don’t think anybody got after Pilat: [Continued] them if they were late or something you know. And even your meat dealers you know, like HildeBrandt, uh, Cleveland, uh, uh what do you call that uh Provision–

Jeannette Kolis: Provision, yeah.

Lottie Pilat: Yeah we used had them, and then uh, the bakeries, were mostly uh around from the area. Fulton bakery we had uh Auburn bakery, Jefferson bakery–

Jeannette Kolis: Diddo

Lottie Pilat: Uh Diddo bakery, we had more bakeries around I’m telling you–

Jeannette Kolis: Good bakeries too.

Lottie Pilat: That was all in the Tremont, most of ‘em were in the Tremont area, except Fulton road. Fulton was up the other way. But those were all in the area. We had bakeries of all sorts. I remember something when I was in school too you know, sister used to tell me “father needs bakery, would you go down to the bakery shop” [Laughter] “I don’t know what to get.”[Laughter] So I’d go to the bakery shop and pick out what I liked you know, I brought it down well they liked it, they ate it. [Laughter]

Ben Becerra: [Laughter]

Jeannette Kolis: We were taught by nuns–

Lottie Pilat: Yeah, it was–

Jeannette Kolis: Can you imagine a, a nun teaching all the subjects from eight o clock till three o clock?

Ben Becerra: Wow

Lottie Pilat: And you were in one class all day.

Jeannette Kolis: Yeah, ( ) one class. Right from first grade, to the eighth grade. They were really good.

Lottie Pilat: Yeah that’s, that was a, it was an interesting neighborhood, I liked it, I liked it and, you got good memories. And you had everything there. Now if they would have just built that fourteen bridge, instead of having, having that uh, freeway up there, they would have had people go downtown. [Ms. Pilat exit’s the room]

Ben Becerra: Ms. Pilat is taking her medication.

Jeannette Kolis: Yeah medication, yeah she just, yeah, she uh, just found out she got something wrong with her heart, but otherwise she’s uh, you know all healthy and she’s very healthy.

Ben Becerra: I’ll take that as my Q. I’m gonna go ahead and wrap the interview up. I’d like to thank Ms.Pilat and Ms. Kolis, they’ve done me a great service, and the city of Cleveland a great service, uh thank you very much.

Jeannette Kolis: Mm hmm, thank you.

END OF INTERVIEW

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