Jim Schlecht interview, 07 August 2024

Abstract

Near West Side resident Jim Schlecht recollects his arrival to the Near West Side in the summer of 1972. Schlecht highlights how his faith has shaped who he is today. This interview focuses on Schlecht’s involvement in the Thomas Merton Community along with Cleveland’s Catholic Worker Community. Schlecht recollects his experience working with children and adults with special needs. He later shares how he provided transitional housing while raising a family in the community. Schlecht for many years has been involved in street outreach for Care Alliance and Northeast Ohio Coalition for the Homeless (NEOCH).

Interviewee

Schlecht, Jim (interviewee)

Interviewer

White, Bali (interviewer)

Project

Near West Side Housing Activism

Date

8-7-2024

Document Type

Oral History

Duration

86 minutes

Recommended Citation

"Jim Schlecht interview, 07 August 2024" (2024). Cleveland Regional Oral History Collection. Interview 544012.
https://engagedscholarship.csuohio.edu/crohc000/1339

Related Resources

Near West Side @ Cleveland Voices

Transcript

Bali White [00:00:02] Alright. Hi, everybody. I’m Bali White, here with the Cleveland Regional Oral History Project at the Carnegie West Library. It is August 7, 2024. Today I am speaking with Jim Schlecht, first and foremost. How are you?

Jim Schlecht [00:00:17] I’m good, Bali. And yourself?

Bali White [00:00:19] Good, thank you. Thank you.

Jim Schlecht [00:00:20] Good.

Bali White [00:00:21] So, could you introduce yourself kind of when and where you were born?

Jim Schlecht [00:00:26] Sure, Bali. My name is Jim Schlecht. I was born in 1952 in Euclid, Ohio, where I lived there until I was about 20 years old.

Bali White [00:00:38] Awesome. So, could you share with us a little bit about your family background? So this could be in terms of, like, ethnic background, anything else kind of relating to that?

Jim Schlecht [00:00:49] Sure. I really feel I was blessed to grow up in a really loving family. My mom and dad were very devoted to us. I have two brothers. I’m the oldest. You know, Euclid was a very nice place to grow up. I would describe it as a middle class suburb. And I also a big part of our life, which I think was foundational for me, was the fact that both my parents were religious, and that was important to us family wise. Church was a part of our family growing up. My dad especially, and also my mom were involved with the church in the neighborhood. And I really feel like so much of what I’ve ended up entering into has to do with that religious foundation that, you know, that started off as a child and continues to grow to this day and also just nurture into the spirituality that I’m experiencing today.

Bali White [00:02:08] So were both of your parents working?

Jim Schlecht [00:02:10] No, my mom was a stay home mom, which was pretty common at that time. It isn’t anymore. And my dad worked, and I just have to share that. My mom was the primary caretaker of myself and my brothers, and my mother had a heart of gold. And I also attribute a lot of what’s in my heart as a result of how she, just the example she was in her very individual, personal relationship. She never did anything real huge, but just the way she was concerned about people and the way, you know, she put others before her, and that sense of unconditional love that she showed to the family was really, I think, has really touched my heart a great deal.

Bali White [00:03:06] Okay, So you had mentioned you have two brothers. Are you the oldest?

Jim Schlecht [00:03:10] I am the oldest. Right. My brother Bob is five years younger, and my brother John is two and a half years younger than I am.

Bali White [00:03:19] Okay, so you had mentioned that you grew up in Euclid. You mentioned it was middle class. Could you kind of describe, like, what the demographics were of that neighborhood?

Jim Schlecht [00:03:32] I think mostly it was an extremely white neighborhood. Okay. I felt that, well, we lived in two different areas in Euclid. On the first was on Farringdon Avenue until I was eleven years old. And there were a lot of other kids on the street that we had an opportunity to play with and engage with. And then we moved over to Halle Drive off of 255th and Lakeshore until I moved to the Near West side. So. And there was, I felt there was a sense of community there. But I also, what, as I got older and what was one of the motivations of moving to the Near West side was I really felt a need to, to be in a more diverse community. And that, and, you know, it’s, it’s interesting, it’s ironic, because now when I go back to Euclid, it’s a very diverse community right now, you know, which I really enjoy seeing. And that. So that was a really, really positive change that takes place since I lived there.

Bali White [00:04:43] Absolutely. So you had mentioned religion kind of was a big factor in your life growing up. Are you Catholic or-?

Jim Schlecht [00:04:53] Yes, I am. Yeah, I’m still a practicing Catholic. I, more of a Christian, I think, is where I’m at in terms of, you know, trying to follow my faith and the teachings of Jesus is really, really significant in my life. And sometimes I fail that miserably and learned from those experiences. But, yeah, I think that’s been a motivation for me to try to, you know, I grew up listening every Sunday to the Gospels and Jesus’s teachings. And I think I, I think I always share with people. I think two things happen when that happens and more can. But one is you just become kind of numb in that, or the other is it slowly begins to become ingrained in you and you try to make that a part of your life. And I think hopefully that’s what I’ve tried to do with that.

Bali White [00:05:52] So where did you attend school? Were you like, in public school growing up or was it private school?

Jim Schlecht [00:05:59] Or was it a private school, actually for both grade school and high school, Bali. I went to Catholic schools. I went to St. Williams on East 260th off of Lakeshore. And we just lived- We just lived maybe a half a mile away. So we’d come home for lunch and go back and that, and then I went- It was then called St. Joseph High School. It’s now Villa Angela, St. Joe’s and, and that. And then from there, I went to Cleveland State.

Bali White [00:06:29] So what year did you attend? Or when did you start going to Cleveland State? What year?

Jim Schlecht [00:06:36] Well, I went after graduation. My grades weren’t real good, so I went to Lakeland Community College for a year, and after that year is when I transitioned over to Cleveland State, which would have been 1971. And then I graduated in December of, like, ’74.

Bali White [00:06:55] What were you studying?

Jim Schlecht [00:06:56] Sociology.

Bali White [00:06:57] Sociology. So after college, what was the next step?

Jim Schlecht [00:07:05] Well, I think there was a time after my first year, after my first year at Lakeland was a real kind of pivotal time for me because actually, I think I was trying to discern what the next step was, and it involved being of service. And I remember at the end of my first year at Lakeland, I decided to apply to enter into VISTA, Volunteers in Service to America, and was pretty excited about that. And then right before the deadline to apply for Cleveland State, I received a letter from them basically saying, you know, thanks for applying, but you don’t have any skills and you don’t have a degree, so you’re not going to be able- We’re not going to be able to accept you when, if that changes at one time, we’ll be glad to reconsider. And that was real. I was extremely disappointed and frustrated. And out of that, I said, well, I guess what I’ll do is I’ll sign up to go back to Cleveland State. But also, that was a time, too, when I had a friend who was moving to the Near, who had moved to the Near West Side. And so I started to think about that. And also during that time period, a friend of mine, Chuck Ackerman, who had moved to the Near West Side, was really pivotal in kind of bringing certain issues to the forefront with me that I really wasn’t spending much time thinking about. And one of the main issues was the Vietnam War at the time. And he really helped educate me as to what our government was doing there, you know, and also ways of responding to that. And I was reading people like Martin Luther King and Dan and Phil Berrigan. So that’s, you know, that period during my first year at Lakeland and then that summer really, really was a period of change for me. And I think being turned down from VISTA really led to me then considering some other options.

Bali White [00:09:34] When exactly did you come to the Near West Side?

Jim Schlecht [00:09:37] I moved over in June. June of ’72. And the thought was Chuck had moved over. He was living with a friend on Church Street. And he said, well, why don’t you move in for the summer? And, yeah. And I said, well, yeah, I decided to do that. And that was a difficult thing because I was very close to my family. The Near West Side was foreign to them. And at that time, it was a pretty rough neighborhood. So that was, it was painful for them and painful for me to move out. But I decided that I really felt like I needed to do that and also to figure out how I did want to be of service. And certainly that experience really did help me to figure that out. So in June, I moved over there, thinking, well, I’ll spend the summer. Another pivotal thing that happened, I think, as a result of me trying to figure out what I want to do service wise, was I was working for the Cleveland Press at the time as a canvasser. You know, I did that through high school and that, and I thought, well, this. I’ve got to find something a little bit more meaningful. I want to do some kind of service. And I talked to a priest that had been at St. Williams when I was growing up. He was chaplain of Rosemary Center, which was a residential facility, Bali, on Euclid Avenue and East 193rd, for children with special needs, I mean, multiple needs, developmental as well as physical. And he called me shortly after I talked to him and said, you know, there’s a position for an aide there, a part time aide. Would you be interested? And I said, I would be very interested. So I went for an interview and got hired immediately. They needed, most of the staff was female. They needed, there was a few men working there because there were children with muscular dystrophy in that who were confined to a wheelchair, who needed to be transported to the toilet and to bed and all that. So which really kind of was pivotal for me to start, start in that job. And it was one of the most difficult experiences, but it was a wonderful experience of working with the children and developing some relationships with the other staff. And that, so that, you know, that always had a special place in my heart as well. And that’s where I met my then, you know, future wife. We are now divorced. But so that was, at that time, that was a big period of change for me in a positive way.

Bali White [00:12:54] How long were you working there for?

Jim Schlecht [00:12:57] I worked there twice. I worked there for, like, three and a half years. And then I went to a facility, the state was opening up a facility called Warrensville Center for Adults with Special Needs. And I really, as much as I really enjoyed working with children, I really wanted to work with adults. So I went over there after I worked there for a while, I did for a short period, go back to Rosemary Home, and then I transitioned from there.

Bali White [00:13:31] Are both still around today?

Jim Schlecht [00:13:33] Warrensville Center is, Rosemary Home is the facility that at that time, they had one residential facility at 193rd and Euclid that has been sold, that is now a substance abuse residential treatment program. They started group homes, which was really good. I mean, to kind of move away from the institutional setting. They, years ago started doing group homes and that.

Bali White [00:14:03] So kind of backtrack a little bit. So when you kind of first arrived to the Near West Side, could you describe what the overall environment was like?

Jim Schlecht [00:14:14] Sure. I mean, it was, there was certainly, I found the diversity that I was looking for there. You know, there were folks from Appalachia. There was Native American population. There were poor, elderly folks living in the neighborhood. Certainly the gentrification that has occurred since I’ve been in the neighborhood. At the time I moved, there was like two streets that could be, quote, called Ohio City, okay? Jay and Carroll Avenue. So it was really limited to that area. And I always, I continue, I will always refer to the neighborhood as the Near West Side because I think the term Ohio City applies to the gentrification that has occurred. And there is, at one time it was called Ohio City, but these days that I think refers to a certain part of the neighborhood and not the whole neighborhood. And that at that time, there was, there was a lot of, there was a number of SRO [single room occupancy hotels] available to people who are on low income, who could rent a room and go to the meals program that the Thomas Merton community started and get their welfare benefits and marginally survive and stay off the street. And that- So the neighborhood has changed a great deal, a lot, to my dismay, because it’s also, as the gentrification has occurred, it’s also displaced an awful lot of people, and so have, and I have to admit there’s certain institutions that have also played a role in that. Back in the 1980s and ’90s, St. Ignatius was doing a huge expansion that really, I was working at the West Side Catholic Center at the time with some of the families, Bali, who were in the- And that was a stable neighborhood. And now that all that housing stock was gone, I mean, they gave people financial resources to move. But it really, and I was living at that part of the neighborhood at the time, so could really feel that very, very strong. So, you know, there was certainly violence, some violence in the neighborhood, you know, and it was, while it was diverse in some ways, it was segregated in the others because most of the African American population was in CMHA, the projects, and that existed off of Detroit. And that, and it’s, I always felt that, and that was- The road there was awful, it was dangerous, and the city never really fixed that until the high-end apartments were beginning to be built and other people were living there. So there was certainly the racism component, I think, too. So does that answer?

Bali White [00:17:38] Yeah, thank you. So you had mentioned the Thomas Merton community. Could you kind of talk about that, who Thomas Merton was and kind of what your involvement?

Jim Schlecht [00:17:49] Sure. The Thomas Merton community was a group of people, a very diverse group of people, I wanted to add, who for different reasons decided to move to the nearest. Three of the people that were probably the core of that was Judy and Bill Corrigan and Father Bob Begin. They had been living in South Euclid. I think they had been also involved with what was going on with the war and protests and that sort of thing. And they were also, there was a social action group, as far as I know, there that they were a part of. And they were really trying to discern how they could live out the gospel. And they felt that they needed to move to a poor neighborhood. I think they considered a near east side neighborhood, but they felt, too, that they were white. That would be intruding. So they ended up moving to the Near West Side. Judy and Bill had- Well, they ended up having seven children. Bob moved to the Near West Side, and then other people came, I think, at various times. This was in 19- I think they moved in 1969, okay? And that- And so they started to do programs in the neighborhood, not only the neighborhood that they were actually living in. And one of the major programs that continue to exist today was what they referred to as the evening meal program. So that was a free meal program open to anybody in the neighborhood who could come. And like I say, that’s still going on today, not by the Merton community, but by various. Over the years, various church groups have offered to help out. And it’s been an opportunity for them to minister, you know, in a way they really wouldn’t have the opportunity to do so. The name Thomas Merton, and somebody was sharing this with me, I never really understood where that came from. And Judy, Judy told this person, well, she wasn’t sure either that, I mean, Thomas Merton was a very well-known Trappist monk who lived in Gethsemane, went through some transformation experiences in his life, did a lot of writing and a lot of spirituality work through his books and through his letters. And that was very much involved with critiquing the Vietnam War. A major focus on nonviolence and, you know, what it meant to be a Christian and live in a Christian community and that. And, you know, I mean, his, he was just prolific in his writings and people like the Berrigans and other people would go to the Gethsemane, spend time with Thomas Merton, do discernment, reflection, retreats and that sort of thing and that. So certainly a very prophetic voice in the Christian community. And then he died rather suddenly. He was at a retreat in Thailand, I think, with Buddhist monks and was electrocuted. So. But in terms of, you know, why this group picked Thomas Merton, I’m not sure. I mean, I’m certainly had to do with his involvement and his critiquing of the Vietnam War, that’s for sure. But the Thomas Merton community was- There were people who were coming for spiritual reasons, to act, to live out what they felt was living out the Gospel, serving the poor, living in community with the poor. And I think that was the core. But there were also people who were coming from a political or an anarchistic perspective where, you know, they felt they wanted to live in community. There were a number of communes that existed for many, many years from different members of the Thomas Merton community. Then there were people who had families who were living and single people who were living in the neighborhood and, you know, would get together over various issues and that sort of thing, and also get together at some of the communes where, you know, where a number of the people involved with the Thomas Marin community were living. Those communes would do the meal. Back in the day, they started a bail fund project where so poor people could get bailed out of jail. It was a revolving bail fund that was attributed to the Merton community. And then a lot of informally, a lot of the people involved in the community did a lot of anti war resistance stuff, civil disobedience, you know, that sort of thing. So it was a very. It wasn’t a large number of people, you know, probably 40 or 50 people at various times, really, but a very active group.

Bali White [00:23:18] Was there, like a central, like, meeting spot for the Thomas Merton Community?

Jim Schlecht [00:23:23] Yeah, I think actually the house that I live in now was one of this. One of the central places where people would gather. There was 32nd Street Commune. It was referred to by the hippie house then. Okay. And then there was a house at 38th and Clinton, which was another commune where I’d say six or seven Thomas Merton folks lived there in community. I think those were probably the two main ones. Well, I should say the main one was actually Bill and Judy Corrigan’s house. We would gather there regularly socially, but there was always, you know, politics and religion talked about. We would gather. I can remember I would work at Rosemary Home till 8:30 and take the bus back. And then we would gather with, with some beer and some in their kitchen table and just have these wonderful conversations, you know, about a lot of different things. So that that was the central. And people still get bills passed on, but people still gather. Every Thursday, Judy does a lunch where people bring a little, with a potluck and people, you know, not necessarily just the Merton people, but other people gather. So that really was a central place, too.

Bali White [00:24:47] Sure. So you had mentioned the West Side Catholic Center. How did you get involved with that?

Jim Schlecht [00:24:55] Well, previous to the Catholic Center, I was working at the West Side Community House, which was a neighborhood settlement house on the near west side at West 30th. And it was quite a lot of activities, Bali, happened out of that. I worked with the older adult program as the outreach worker, and we did meals and we did a lot of activities and social services. There was also a daycare. There was a program, a youth program that built winterization equipment for elderly folks homes. And that there was a program called Low Income People Together, which was an organizing advocacy group for poor people. So they worked on a lot of issues, like with utility shutoffs and just the welfare department and a lot of different issues in the neighborhood people were facing that were a part of this group as poor people, and the group would take on some of these issues that really impacted the people in the neighborhood. I had worked there for eight years, and then I wanted to, we had had our first child, and I wanted, I had cut back. I wanted to cut back to three days a week so I could share in childcare. And I, and so I had volunteered at the Catholic Center when it first started, and they had no outreach person there. They had a shelter, and they had a staff there, but they really had nobody who could transport people to look for housing and do other things outside of the center. So I talked to Sister Kathleen Kilbane, one of the founders, who was still director at the time, and said, you know, if I could work three days a week and be home, too, I would love to be the outreach worker here. And she really embraced that. And so I worked there for about eight years and that, doing outreach with folks at the drop-in center and then at the shelter.

Bali White [00:27:12] So another layer of this is kind of your involvement with the Cleveland Catholic Worker. So how, and I guess, when did you get involved with the Catholic Worker?

Jim Schlecht [00:27:22] Okay. Going back- Well, Judy Corrigan called me one day and said she had talked to Joe Lehner. And Joe came from Indiana and was a Jesuit volunteer that– I don’t know if you’re familiar with that program, but folks, young people who mostly who have graduated from college who wanted to do a year of service through the Jesuit Volunteer Corps, they would live in community for a year on the Near West Side, and they would be placed at various organizations, such as the Catholic Center, or if they wanted to work with children, it would be a children’s organization. They would try to match people up. And Joe came as a Jesuit volunteer – he graduated from Notre Dame – and started working at the West Side Catholic Center. And Joe talked once he moved here, he talked about wanting to establish a Catholic Worker community. So I see Joe as really the impetus and the founder of the Catholic Worker community. Now, historically, though, back in the forties, there was, there was a family, the Gauchats. They had- They opened up a house of hospitality on Franklin Hill off of West 25th Street. They did hospitality there for many, many years. They had a soup kitchen. So they were really the first. And they did it for many years. They were, to me, the first group of persons to establish a Catholic Worker community in Cleveland. And I’m not sure a lot of people remember them, but what they did, too, they continued in a different format. They actually founded Our Lady of the Wayside, which I think is in Avon still, which was a home for special needs children. And so they went from doing hospitality there to that type of hospitality. And, I mean, that has been in place for all these years, and people are still referring children there. So going back to Joe, I remember Judy Corrigan calling me one day and saying, you know, I talked to Joe Lehner. Joe really would like to start a Catholic Worker community. You know, I suggested that he might want to talk with you. So I said, well, I would love to talk to him about that and some other people. So I remember I had a conversation with Joe, with Bill, with Bill and Judy, and how all of us talked. And January 2 of, I think it was ’84 or ’85, Bali, I can’t remember exactly, but I remember we gathered at Patty’s in my house on Monroe. It was Bill Corrigan, Chuck Ackerman, myself, Joe Lehner. And there was another person there. Her name was. I can’t think of. I can’t believe her last name was hinders. Okay, we. That, to me, was the first informal gathering from then other people, you know, from that meeting, people said, let’s pursue this. So there was. There was a gentleman by the name of Jim McHugh who actually was doing hospitality in his apartment. He had invited in two folks with mental wellness concerns to live with him. He had been doing this for quite a while, and as a result of that, I think people started talking about, could we open up a house where we could invite folks where Jim could bring, he could live in community with these two folks, and we could invite other folks in. I mean, that really provided the focus for trying to find a house where we could do hospitality. So people continued to meet every two weeks for a few, a couple of months at our house. And then people- Actually, there was- There’s a 13-bedroom house behind St. Patrick’s on Whitman where actually it was. The nuns had lived there years ago, so that was vacant at the time. And a group of people – I wasn’t a part of this – but a group of people went to talk to Father Mark DiNardo to say, could we open up a Catholic Worker house at that facility? And he agreed to do it. So shortly after that, people, myself and Patty and our kids didn’t move in, but Joe moved in. Jim with his two guests moved in. Jim Doherty, Jane Schick. There were a few other people who moved into that house to form the core community of the Catholic Worker community. Now, that’s from my perspective, and I know each person who was a part of that would have a perspective to what their experience was, but that was mine. And then people began to gather at that house for meetings. And, I mean, a lot of things transpired out of that for many, many years. They had volunteers stay there, too, who were involved with the community. They opened it up. Many, many folks who suffered from mental illnesses stayed there long term and really provided a family setting for those folks. And it was very challenging and difficult, but it was just, that was, I think, just a wonderful thing for folks to do.

Bali White [00:34:10] Can you recall the year that the Catholic Worker moved from Whitman over to Fulton?

Jim Schlecht [00:34:17] I think- Good question. I think it’s been- My guess has been, like, I’d say, I guess like six years, maybe five or six years they were there. They were- So they probably moved into Whitman around ’85 or ’86. And so they were there a very, very long time, you know, and not everybody, you know, stayed that whole time, but in the community got some other properties, too, so. But that was, yeah, that was certainly the focal point.

Bali White [00:34:55] So what would you consider to be the goals of a Catholic Worker?

Jim Schlecht [00:34:59] I think a number of things. I think Dorothy Day and Peter Maurin talked a lot about personalism, that idea of, again, living out the Gospel and doing it in an individual way, too. Like, for each person to take responsibility for the needs of others, you know, and I think what’s important to understand about that is not only to assist others or to impact others, but how that has a transforming effect on us who enter into relationships in that way. I think, you know, their agriculture was also a part of the Thomas Merton community. Peter Maurin talked a lot about farming communes and bringing people from the city, you know, to work on the farms and that sort of thing. Certainly nonviolence, a Gospel nonviolence of loving your enemy and responding to violence in a loving, compassionate way, forgiving your enemies, doing good where there is evil, responding in that fashion instead of responding with more evil, which just kind of perpetuates evil. Living a voluntary poverty lifestyle, I think, is certainly one of the core values of the Catholic Worker community. And Dorothy would talk about creating a new society out of the old, within the old. And certainly her views on capitalism and that were like, we have to create a more just, caring system. And that begins with individuals taking responsibility for the needs of others, you know. And certainly her faith was, you know, she- While she- She described the church as a whore but as our mother. And I think she was able to work through the inconsistencies that the churches, the institutional church manifests oftentimes, and was able to look at the teachings of Jesus and how that’s got to be as Christians, as Catholics. That has to be the foundation and not the institutional trappings of the church.

Bali White [00:37:47] So kind of switching gears a little bit, you had mentioned. Well, you haven’t mentioned, but prior to this conversation, we talked about Elizabeth House. Could you kind of share your involvement with that, what exactly it was, and kind of how you got involved?

Jim Schlecht [00:38:04] Sure. I’d be glad to. Well, Elizabeth House was- I’m just thinking maybe we should talk about Monroe House first, because I think it came out of that experience, if that’s okay.

Bali White [00:38:25] Yeah, no, totally fine.

Jim Schlecht [00:38:27] You know, when, as a result of me living in a house of hospitality, when I moved to the Near West Side, that was pivotal for me, transforming for me, because it really helped me discern that I wanted to continue to do hospitality where I continue to live and how that would look very differently than the hospitality I did as a partner of a group with the Thomas Merton community on Clinton. But that, that experience just was powerful for me. So I think when Patty and I were talking about getting married and having a family, which was really important, you know, to me and to both of us, how could we incorporate that, you know, in our lifestyle where we would be living and having children? So as we- We got married, and we lived over on Monroe in a double house. And what we wanted to do was, somebody else was living on the other side, we just were renting the one part of it. And what we wanted to do was find a double house in the neighborhood where we could live with our children, and then we could do hospitality for men. In the other part of the house. It would be separate, but we would operate that and that- So we were looking at all these places and how God works, there was a house right behind- There was a double lot where we were living, and right behind us, there was an elderly woman living there, and she could no longer stay there and wanted to sell the house and actually had somebody who was interested in buying it. Right next door to us, where Elizabeth House ended up was an elderly couple who we got to know very, very well, who loved the kids, and we really had a friendly relationship. And it was, also, she had a very good relationship with the woman who was in the process of selling her house behind us. Well, when Elizabeth found out that we wanted to buy a double house, she went and talked to Mrs. Nementh and said, could you hold off selling to that person? Jim and Patty would be interested in buying your house. It was a double. It was perfect for what we wanted to do, same street and everything. So we eventually bought that house. And shortly after that, after we got settled in, there was a three-bedroom upstairs that we started taking home homeless men in. Mostly, I had- I was working as the outreach worker at the West Side Community House, and so I would invite folks that we were working with there to stay in the upstairs. And that went on- We opened that up in 1983, and that continued to 1990 when we moved to West 32nd Street. Now, in 19, in 1980, it was ’85 or ’86, Bali, Elizabeth and Lou, the couple that were staying there, said, you know, we can’t continue to live on our own anymore. We would like to sell you this house for a minimal amount. And we said, well, we’d be very interested. We thought about doing, since we had a house for men, and I was running into women who were in need of housing, who were on the street, so we thought about opening up a house for women. So we went to Near West Housing Corporation and said, could you give us a small loan to buy this house? And, you know, we would make payments, which they did. And at that time, the way the family shelters were set up or shelters for women were that they would the women every two weeks because they didn’t want them to get too comfortable, which to me, made awful sense. So while we couldn’t take children and if the house was way too small, we couldn’t take on that responsibility. We started taking individual women who were willing to sit down to make a goal for housing and to work on that and to say, you know, I mean, when you’re in a homeless situation, there’s, there’s enough pressure and struggle. You don’t need to have to worry about, I’m going to have to leave in a week or two weeks. So as long as the folks continued to work with us on housing and, or whatever they were working on, then we would, we would allow them to stay. At that time, there was a really nice transitional housing program for women, Bali, on West 25th Street, but they were oftentimes filled. So what we would do is if the women, like, if the women needed time, say they were accepted to move into the transitional housing. There were no openings, so we would invite them to come to Elizabeth House, let them stay, and so they’re not on the street, let them stay the two, three, four months, whatever it would take for them to transition into, into transitional housing, and then get, get an apartment. And we also worked a lot with CMHA at that time. They weren’t as bureaucratic, and we could, we could get people housed in three or four, four months through that process, too. So we continued, we continued doing that until 1990 on Monroe. And we could house, like, up to three or four women at a time. And then the men, we’d have anywhere from, like two or three men to up to six or seven in the upstairs and that. So.

Bali White [00:45:37] I guess, how was Elizabeth House received by the community?

Jim Schlecht [00:45:42] I think, you know, we did it in a very low key manner, you know, and since, I think what was really helpful, Bali, was we had lived on that street for a number of years. People do us. Even when the men were staying where there was never– I can’t remember any of the neighbors ever complaining about the folks staying there. And like I said, I, based that on the fact that we had relationships. We weren’t moving in and doing this. We had been on the street and knew people and that. So, you know, Elizabeth House was just an opportunity, I think, in a smaller scale to do what we were doing with the men and to provide them some time to heal and, and just get off the streets and, you know, start, start anew a little bit, you know, and that now, when we did continue Elizabeth House, when we moved to West 32nd street, and maybe I’ll talk a little bit about that if you want.

Bali White [00:46:45] Yeah, absolutely.

Jim Schlecht [00:46:46] Okay. When I- We were still living on West 32nd Street, I had shared with you that, you know, the West 32nd Street Commune, most of those people had moved out by, you know, like the end of the eighties or beginning in 1990. There was one gentleman, and there was an adolescent there with him who was in the house. And the Thomas Merton community actually owned that house. And they were in the process. They were in the process of thinking of moving to the house, needed a lot of work. And so Judy and Bill and other people at the Thomas Merton community said, you know, if you would be interested, we would give you the house if you would continue to do hospitality, you know, with Elizabeth House. Okay? So. Which- And Patty was very much interested in moving over there. So we agreed to do that. We agreed- We agreed to take out a loan to rehab the house, to make it into a two-family, and that- And then invite- We had room for three women to stay. So it took a number of months. I mean, the house, the whole house. We were living there when it was being rehabbed. It was a mess, but it got done. And we created a unit for Elizabeth house, and women started staying there until we did that, till 1994. And then, you know, it was. Felt like we. It just got to be a lot and that. And I think we were feeling like we needed. We needed to take a break and that. And certainly in the Merton community, they, you know, there was no time stipulation. It was beneficial to them because they saw that house. Somebody is in that house that was going to take care of it. It still needs a lot of work, but anyway, we won’t get into that. [laughs]

Bali White [00:49:02] So while you’re providing this transitional housing in your own home at that time, was that received well by the neighbors also?

Jim Schlecht [00:49:13] Yeah, like on 32nd Street? Yeah, like, we knew the neighbor, Joanne and Al, actually were part of the Thomas Merton community. And this, you know, the commune was there all those years, so. And then on the other side was this place called Vantage Place. So it was kind of a well that- And that provided individual rooms for mentally challenged folks and that, and for older adults. So we were kind of in a good location there. That never really became a problem. And then I want to say, too, that both- There was a time after we opened up the Monroe House for Men that the Catholic Worker wanted to get- This was before- I’m trying to think. Well, a number of them wanted to get more involved with hospitality, and we were taking in, like, three men initially at Monroe. That’s what we felt we could handle. Well, the Catholic Worker community agreed to offer volunteers who would stay overnight. And we agreed if that happened, that we could take in six or seven men if somebody was there overnight. And that- So we did that for quite a while, and we had various volunteers. It wasn’t like Patty and I just doing this. We had different volunteers. And then at Elizabeth House, we had volunteers from John Carroll University, from Case Western Reserve. We had- Actually, what was cool about Elizabeth House, the first guest that we had actually ended up being a staff person that we paid a stipend to. And that happened with a couple of the women who came in homeless. They stayed, helped run the house, and that at least three of the women did that. So that was, you know, that there was, there was- We were able to create some support and funding, too. I mean, it was minimal, minimal amount of money, but, you know, we had to rely on other people because we couldn’t support both houses on our own. So I think Elizabeth House had a budget, like, of $10,000 a year, something like that. So, you know, and that- And we tried as best we could to run that out as a Catholic Worker house, you know, under that venue. So, yeah.

Bali White [00:51:53] So, what do you believe to be some of the key factors that lead to homelessness in urban environments like Cleveland?

Jim Schlecht [00:51:59] Well, I think there’s multiple layers, really. Okay? I mean, and I think from a large scale, I think our economic system is very responsible for creating homeless situations for people. I just think that, you know, capitalism really is about profit over people. And, you know, I see that daily in the work that we do with NEOCH and work we do on the streets. And I think there’s that- I think capitalism, you know, addresses the individual needs and greed of people where other systems don’t focus on that, but focus kind of on what is best for the common good. And I think that’s what occurred during COVID when, you know, when the common good was to, you know, to protect yourself and protect others by wearing masks and that sort of thing. But you had a fairly large group of people who were saying, you’re impacting my individual freedoms. You know, and I think one of the reasons we had such a terrible epidemic with that was the fact that so many people focused on their individual freedoms and didn’t look at what was in the best interest of our community. You know, so, you know, housing is built for profit and not for people. And I think that needs to change. So that’s one big thing. Just, you know, the racial inequities that exist in our country certainly, I think, come into play when you look at the homeless population and the racism that is occurring in our country and has for all these years, just- And the lack of priority for our most vulnerable folks. And I can’t help but mention, you know, the city right now, a couple of months ago, came up with a $2 million initiative to address home, unsheltered homeless and that- And there’s been, in my opinion, you know, there’s been some adequate funding for shelter. There’s a difference. And oftentimes the city and county and even the providers don’t understand the difference between the two populations. But anyway, the city came up with $2 million to initiate this program to try to get people off the street who are unhoused, which is good. But then just last week, Mayor Bibb announced that he’s offering $461 million to renovate a 29-year-old stadium owned by, I mean, billionaires. The people who own that, Cleveland Browns, bought it for a billion dollars. It’s now worth $4.5 billion. And we’re going to use our resources to subsidize billionaires when 70% of the people who use, who come to those games live out of Cuyahoga County. So I have to do the numbers, but I think 2 million is about a half a percent of that $461 million. And to me, that just exemplifies- There’s been no political will to really do anything about- Now there’s so many people on the street and it’s becoming so noticeable and it’s an eyesore to people. So, you know, now, you know, it’s time to do- But it’s still very, very minimal. And I think, I think until we really experience, I guess I think back to there’s Reverend Barber, who is part of the Poor People’s Campaign, who talks about we need a moral revival or our conversion. And to me, yeah, it’s not a political answer. It’s, you know, when we as individuals and communities are willing to prioritize the needs of people and not the so-called needs of the rich and, you know, we have the resources available and- But we use them for other things. And of course, that gets into how much of our money is spent on war-making and the military and how 50% of our budget goes for those kind of resources. And I just think everything is relational because the money that is going to there, not only is it hurting, killing the environment – I mean, the Pentagon is the biggest polluter in the world – but it’s taking resources away of how much affordable housing could we build from one nuclear submarine. And I think oftentimes people don’t see that relationship or correlation. They see the money going out for this or that and that. So until we really become concerned, I think about not only homeless folks, but other vulnerable populations in general who are lacking the resources they need. And again, I think taking, like the Catholic Worker talks about people taking individual responsibility. You know, we can’t take in, we can’t provide a shelter for 400 people, but, you know, we can respond by entering into relationships with people and offering our resources and time, mind, and money to help people get off the street. I just think I’d like to, as a result of this conversation, just to talk a little about, just real briefly mention that’s why I think it’s important, important for people, and I participate in this myself, to do what’s called war tax resistance. For many years on and off, you know, we withheld a certain amount of our tax money that went to the military and would use that money for life-giving organizations and that sort of thing. And I think with what’s, especially with what’s happening in Gaza, Ukraine, you know, I would hope that people would really consider doing that because I feel personally that there’s many ways that I contribute to war making and the policies that exist in this country, the consumerism and that sort of thing. But the most direct way is by paying, you know, paying my taxes to contribute to that. And I think whether or not we have a gun or whether or not we bought the gun, it’s all connected and supporting, you know, death. So right now, you know, I live under the taxable income, so I don’t have to contribute any amount of money to the war-making machines and that and still try to contribute to other organizations that are supporting people in need.

Bali White [00:59:57] I don’t have it listed on my questions, but I’m curious, are you involved with the protest against the airshow?

Jim Schlecht [01:00:03] Yeah. Mm hmm. As a matter of fact, yeah. And that’s a lot. The Catholic Worker has been longstanding in that every year. And Mike. Mike especially. But, yeah, I’d gone. And actually, when was it in? It’s about 15 years ago. Myself, Meg Wilson, Chris Knestrick and Ben Jimenez. We actually participated in a witness inside which got us arrested. There was a warplane that was actually used in Iraq in the invasion. And so we gathered around that, and we put some tape around, you know, warning. And then we, we had a banner that said, you know, war making is not entertainment. These planes kill people. And Megan and Chris held that, and Tim Musser and Ben Jimenez knelt down, and I knelt down, or was laid down as victims, and then I knelt down over them, praying. So we– Yeah, we participated in that. And every year the. The Catholic Worker does a witness, and it’s different every year. I mean, Mike has, for the last number of years, has fasted during the whole weekend. There’s times when we’ve gone in to pray. Usually we hold a banner outside. One year we brought a coffin and kind of walked up and down the street with that in front of the war show. So.

Bali White [01:02:00] In a previous conversation, you had mentioned you worked for Care Alliance. Would you be able to kind of touch base on what that was?

Jim Schlecht [01:02:08] Sure, I’d be glad to. And again, I just want to preface, like, these things just, I think, work as a Christian called to be. That’s, I would like to think, the motivator. Well, yeah, it was. I had- I had been working at a place called- Well, it was Recovery Resources, which was an organization that provided case management and medication services to folks with mental illness conditions. And I had done that for five years, Bali, and I got really, really emotionally and burned out to the point of where I decided I couldn’t- I could no longer do this. I needed to quit, which was really a big decision because we had three children. Patty was working part-time. We didn’t have a whole lot of income. We relied mostly on mine. But I just knew emotionally I couldn’t continue. So I left there thinking, you know, well, I’ll get a job. You know, I’ll get a job fairly quickly, which wasn’t the case. So we had gone, like, three or four months, and we’re really hurting. And I was at- The Thomas Merton community every year would have a fall festival, the Harvest Moon. And I went to that, that year. And John McKinney, who was a friend of mine, he was the director of what it was then called Healthcare for the Homeless. And he came up to me and said, you know, looking for an outreach person. Would you be interested? And I said, yeah, I would be. Now, I had some hesitation because at that time, they didn’t have a very good reputation, you know, and so arrogant that I was, I thought, well, should I work for them? But I thought, I got to. I’ll work for them for a few months and still continue to look for a job. Well, as it turned out, I ended up being there 23 years, so what do I know? But. Which was a wonderful one. Wonderful job. Yeah, I started to do street outreach, then back in, it was like 1998, I think October. And it was just, you know, things evolved where I started to get volunteers to go out with me, but we focused on visiting and trying to get not only people housed, but into treatment, getting them linked up, mental health-wise, you know, Healthcare for the Homeless had a medical component, and also it expanded into a pretty large mental health component, too, over the many years. So we could bring- You know, there were times when we could bring a doctor out and we bring them into the clinic. There was a clinic when I first started working for them at the Riverview high-rise on West 25th Street. Okay? So we would bring people in there. We work with CMHA. There was a program not run by us called Bridges to Housing, where we could meet once a month with the staff at CMHA to try to get people unhoused, people housed quickly, which really happened within a few months. And that so, and I learned so much, I mean, and I developed so many of the relationships over the years, and I just feel the work that we do is all based on relationships and networking and the fact that I had worked with these agencies before then, Bali, and, you know, I could go over to the Catholic Center and say, we know we need clothes or whatever, and, you know, we- Everybody was- I mean, it was an opportunity to really engage other agencies, too, with the work that we were doing through Healthcare for the Homeless. After a number of- After the first three or four years, they decided to change their name to Care Alliance because they developed this relationship with CMHA, not only to house people, but their offices moved into Riverview. Okay? And that- So they changed their name. So they were working- Not only they still continue to work primarily with homeless folks, but it was also open to anybody who is in need. And then over the years, one of the directors, Linda Summers, did a capital campaign and created a really nice clinic on Saint Clair, which is still there, because the clinic we were in before was in, was in pretty bad shape. And then the director after that, Francis Ewing, he created a state of the art- He was able to come up with the funding to create the state of the art clinic at 30th and Central, the poorest neighborhood in the city, the highest concentration of low-income housing in that area there. So. So it was, you know, I loved, I loved working for Care Alliance and Healthcare for the Homeless. It really, you know, and that- And then the last few years that I was there and caused me to leave, there was a change in leadership, and it became clear that the focus was, you know, there wasn’t going to be much of a focus on street outreach. And also a lot of- With the new CEO coming in, there was a change of focus, and they had so many wonderful medical providers there, just really compassionate young people who really were up on, on everything and just had great hearts. And they began to leave because of the change in direction and just the, the atmosphere that was created with the new leadership. And I was one of the last to leave. Leave. And then, yeah, I, you know, Chris, Chris Nestrick said, yeah, we would be very interested in having you come aboard, which was a great decision because NEOCH is so focused on street outreach. You know, I mean, there was, like, there were two of us at Care Alliance doing outreach. Now there’s a team. There’s three of us, but there’s also other outreach people that serve certain populations, the LGBTQ community, youth, you know, young adults. So. And that is their, their main focus. Well, they do it. They certainly do advocacy and education, but they’re very committed to doing street outreach, and that’s kind of where my heart’s been all these years, so.

Bali White [01:09:33] So you’re currently involved with NEOCH, which is the Northeast Ohio Coalition for the Homeless.

Jim Schlecht [01:09:39] Right.

Bali White [01:09:40] So is your role primarily street outreach there?

Jim Schlecht [01:09:46] Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Yeah.

Bali White [01:09:46] Is that in the Near West Side, or is that kind of all over, like, Cleveland as a whole?

Jim Schlecht [01:09:52] Sure. We, you know, we get calls from everywhere, Bali. If somebody calls and said, there’s a homeless, we’ll go out to that. But what we’ve done as a team, most of our time and efforts, unless we get calls otherwise, is spent on the downtown, near east side, near west side area, and out till, out to, you know, like, out to 110th, 117th, certainly. So, like, we meet each morning and then decide based on the calls we get the day before, you know, where we need to prioritize. And what’s been hugely helpful for me. The first- The first few years that I started at Care Alliance, I was going out by myself. I’ve had many groups, great volunteers come out with me, especially Paul Sherlock, who came out with me for, like, regularly 12 or 13 years in ten degree below zero weather, you know, to meet the needs of people. And he continued until I left Care Alliance. And then I’ve- Jack Breisch, who’s been volunteering with me since I’ve been over at NEOCH. He goes out with me three mornings a week. And one of the things that has evolved, which we’ve tried to do for years, is to really develop a medical and a mental health street outreach program. And I think, well, it’s not formalized yet. But we’re beginning to do that and looking into formalizing this. But we have a wonderful doctor, Michael Seidman, that comes out on Mondays with me. And then we have a psychiatrist from the center is Elena Yanchar, who comes out every Fridays. And that has just opened up outreach to a whole different level. You know, Michael, we can be at a campsite, and if the person gives permission, Michael can look up their records on his phone and see what the next steps are. Another big plus with Michael is he has become the medical director of Joseph’s and Mary’s Home, which is a medical respite for unhoused people who aren’t inappropriate in the shelter because of their medical needs. And they- We’ve worked with them for 20 years, but to have him come out on outreach and to. To do the applications with us and then meet with the staff there like he does, we getting people in so much more quickly. And we’re probably the primary referral agent for Joseph’s and Mary’s Home. And for years, Joseph’s Home wanted to start a Mary’s Home for women, and they finally did a few years ago. And this was all started with the Sisters of Charity, Sister Frances and some others who really got this off the ground now probably almost 25 years ago. And I can remember back then bringing people in off the street, and she’d say, we don’t need to interview them, just bring them in. Those are the relationships that are so crucial to what we do, you know, I mean, and I’ve been so blessed, and I just. It’s a special bond that develops for me with the folks who journey together in this and who are so committed and compassionate. I mean, it’s- Because I certainly- There’s no way I could be doing this on my own but, no way.

Bali White [01:13:32] So where is the central hub for NEOCH located?

Jim Schlecht [01:13:37] Their main headquarters is at 36th and Perkins on the third floor. They have office there. And they do. You know, street outreach is just one component. They do wonderful work with advocacy and education. They have a program where unhoused folks go out and talk about their life experiences on homelessness to different groups. They have a street newspaper where vendors can make a dollar for each one sold, and they also contribute writing articles in that really take ownership of that, of folks who have been unhoused. And a lot of them aren’t anymore, but they’re still selling the newspaper because out of that lived experience and through the, you know, advocacy, too, and other forms of education that they do so. And it’s grown tremendously since Chris has been there, and I work with Brian Davis, who started NEOCH. And, you know, he was great for me to work with and was always supportive in that, of our work at Care Alliance and that. So.

Bali White [01:14:49] So I guess looking back at all of this, is there anything you would have done differently with the knowledge and experience that you have today?

Jim Schlecht [01:15:00] Well, on a personal level, I mean, I mean, I see, like, all these experiences has kind of just kind of things have evolved as a result of that to where I’m at today, the relationships, the, the knowledge, you know, just- And I’ve learned a lot just being in NEOCH in the last, last three, four years. On a personal note, I think, you know, I’m- I think, and not that I didn’t realize this, but I think, you know, it was really a challenge for, as a family, to do what we did, and it certainly impacted my relation, our relationship, Patti and I’s relationship. And I know it’s impacted the kids in a different, different way, some very positive, but some in some ways, you know, there was traumatic for them, too. So. And that, you know, so I’m more mindful of that. I think now, you know, I certainly wish I had the knowledge that I have now. You know, years ago when I was first learning, you know, what it meant to do outreach, and, and I’ve shared this with a number of people. I think I learned a very valuable lesson when I first started outreach with healthcare for the homeless, and I’d like to share that. We went out under a bridge. This was a few months after I started, and there was a gentleman there. He was by himself. So we pulled over and, you know, we started talking to him, gave him some support supplies. And in the conversation, he said he was a veteran. So, you know, my immediate thought was, well, I’ll call the VA and see, you know, how we can link him up and that. So I called the social worker, and, you know, he said, well, yeah, I know this guy. He said, we were out there three or four months ago, and he wasn’t interested in our circuitous services. And I didn’t say this, but my thought was, well, why didn’t she ever come back? And, you know, that really struck me. And we went back with this guy, and, like, a few weeks later, we got him into Joseph’s Home, you know, and to me, that was like, it’s, it’s all about, you know, it’s all about the relationship with people and not about what so many of the providers that we work with. You know, they, you know, they offer certain things that they think are in the best interest of the person, and the relationship is based on that person entering into that. And that’s, that’s really, that ends the relationship then, because then you’re doing it. Then you’re doing it for what you think is best for that person and letting that person decide. And also, you’re not, you’re worrying about just the outcome of the relationship and not the relationship, if you know what I mean. So I learned very early that it’s important to keep coming back, especially, even if they don’t, even if people are resistant for whatever reason or there’s barriers. And that, that’s been a spiritual, that’s a spiritual lesson for me because I think it takes, it starts to take away some of the ego involved with. You know, I got this person housed or that there was a person that just died that we visited for 20 years. That was just a relationship that I value so much. And it was clear many, many years ago that he wasn’t, this was, he was going to stay where he was at. And the thought of not coming back to visit him all these years would have been really, it would have been hurtful to me because I benefit from that relationship. So more and more as I’ve done this, more and more, it’s more about the intent and how we are entering into relationships with, in our heart. And sure, you want to see results, and I’m not trying to diminish that at all. But that’s, that’s, you know, that’s not always the most important thing. It’s staying engaged with people.

Bali White [01:19:34] So I guess moving forward, what changes do you believe necessary in the fight for things like affordable housing and housing justice in this community as a whole?

Jim Schlecht [01:19:47] Yeah, I mean, I think organizations like NEOCH and other organizations have to keep doing the advocacy work. And to be truthful, Bali, there’s not that many advocating. And, you know, I would hope that the shelter providers would start to think a little more, a lot more creatively, okay? Kind of like in most areas, you kind of continue to do what you’re doing. And, you know, there’s been money to rehab, to rehab Lakeside shelter, which is really, really good, but in terms of, we have to provide a place to get people off the street immediately, so then we can begin the process of working with them. And I guess what really sticks in my mind is the experience during COVID where we had the funding to bring people right off the street that moment to say, I’m taking you to a hotel. And by that happening, 50% of those people either didn’t return to the street, which is a huge number looking at our house population and that, and we talk about that. But, you know, I don’t know. People- We have a model here. People talk about what they’re doing in Houston and PA or whatever, but we have a model that works here. And I think we just need to get people to embrace that because we spend a lot of time, we’ll see somebody, especially the transient population, where they’re not in a campsite, they’re sleeping in doorways and moving about. We’ll see somebody who will say, yeah, I’ll work with you on doing a permanent supportive housing application. But, you know, we go back the next, they’re not there, and it’s two weeks before we find them again, you know, and it also prepares people for beginning to get off the street, you know, being in a hotel, beginning that transition because it’s a huge transition. People think, oh, you know, you get, somebody gets housed, how wonderful that is. It is, but it’s a huge change from the lifestyle they’ve been living for possibly many, many years. And we don’t take that into consideration. And, you know, I mean, I would like to hope there’d be someday that, I mean, the political will for that to happen. And I’m very skeptical about that. I don’t see, you know, see that happening at all much. And that, and I think that’s where we have to demand as community that the priorities have to go for this. And by doing these other individual things like, you know, tax resistance and stuff like that, taking people into the housing, you know, the churches and, you know, certain churches do an awful lot. I mean, St. Augustine Church is like the epitome of serving all these different populations. But, you know, the suburban churches, they have to, for their benefit, too, not just for the benefit of the people we serve, for them to have an opportunity to enter into relationships, not just come down and serve a meal, but to sit down and eat it with them. You know, that’s what we’re talking about. And those are the, that’s what, that’s, at least that’s what helps transform me and other people, I think, who experience those things. And they’re, you know, it’s an opportunity for them to experience that, too. So, you know, and I know there’s groups working on a structural level, you know, trying to pass legislation. I think that’s critically important. But, you know, there’s very little- I was, I was reading this book by Henri Nouwen, and he and a group of people went to talk to Hubert Humphrey back in the day when he was vice president, and they’re doing a book on compassion. And they asked him, what compassion do you experience? And he took out a pencil and said, it’s the little tip of the eraser, the rest of the pencil there’s no compassion here amongst my colleagues. So I don’t know. I don’t know how you touch the minds and hearts of people to really think about the needs of others.

Bali White [01:24:12] So I guess nearing the end of the interview, do you have any last thoughts or words of advice for people wanting to get involved in the kind of work you do?

Jim Schlecht [01:24:22] Sure. I mean, I would love to have people call us at NEOCH. And I really, I mean, almost everybody, Bali, that has ever gone out on outreach, even if it’s for a day, have been extremely touched by that experience, you know? And so I would invite anybody who’s interested. We would try to make a way for that to happen, you know? And I feel like our outreach program is also a way of educating people and also leading to relationships. And we’ve seen volunteers who, as a result of outreach, have maintained their own individual relationships with people and along those lines, too. And we’ve, when we were with the Metanoia project, we tried to develop this, but it never really happened on a very large scale. But it’s so important. I think when somebody is unhoused and moves into housing, they do have some kind of social network for the most part, or people that they engage during the day, that’s all taken away. So how can we still accompany people, even in a social way, to, you know, not to do social service things, but just to say, let’s go for a cup of coffee, or can I come and visit you at your apartment once a week? And then if there’s issues social service-wise or whatever, you know, let us know. But, you know, I think those are transforming experiences for people, or can be.

Bali White [01:25:55] Absolutely. Well, thank you. Thank you very much. So I am Bali White here with Jim Schlecht on August 7, 2024, with the Cleveland Regional Oral History Project. We’re going to end this interview. Thank you very much for your time.

Jim Schlecht [01:26:12] Thanks, Bali. Thanks.

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