Abstract

Jim LaRue recollects his early childhood in Doylestown, Pennsylvania, eventually leaving for college at Bucknell University where he was student body president. At Bucknell, LaRue encountered Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. and took inspiration from King's use of translating love into justice, which became a lifelong mantra for LaRue in his involvement in the ministry and in his efforts in rehabbing homes in the greater Cleveland area.

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Interviewee

LaRue, Jim (interviewee)

Interviewer

White, Bali (interviewer)

Project

Near West Side Housing Activism

Date

7-2-2024

Document Type

Oral History

Duration

106 minutes

Transcript

Bali White [00:00:02] And we’re live. Hello, everybody. I am Bali White with the Cleveland Regional Oral History Project at Carnegie West Library in the Bridge Room. Today I’m here with Jim LaRue, first and foremost. How are you?

Jim LaRue [00:00:16] I’m fine.

Bali White [00:00:18] Good, awesome. I’m just going to adjust this, move this a little closer to you. So could you introduce yourself, kind of when and where you were born? You can share as little or as much about your early life in terms of growing up, your family background, religious background, any factors that kind of shape-

Jim LaRue [00:00:35] And you can probe me for additional information? Well, I’m 87 years old right now, so I’m allegedly over the hill. I was born and raised in Doylestown, Pennsylvania, just north of Philadelphia. I was part of a very poor family. But the irony is that my family, my father’s family, had been very rich because his family had created a major dairy operation in southeastern Pennsylvania. My uncle was in charge of all the farms that produced the milk. My father was in charge of all of the equipment, the horses and wagons, and all of that stuff that hauled the milk. So my grandfather was very, very well to do, and then he invested everything in the stock market and lost it all. And so he and- So my father was out of work. My uncle was done, and my father worked in dairy as a way of working. My grandfather had a stroke, and my mother, who was a social worker, came to take care of him. And that’s how she met my father, and the two decided to get married. And I was their firstborn. And so I was born into poverty. And I like to think, though, that if the crash hadn’t occurred, I wouldn’t have been born because my mother wouldn’t have come to take care of my grandfather. So I celebrate the crash. [laughs] It’s kind of a selfish way to celebrate it. I was raised all my life in Doylestown, went to grade school, junior high school, and high school in Doylestown. I spent a lot of time helping the family because we were always in some financial trouble. And that led me to start caddying when I was ten years old. And then I got a bunch of little odd jobs and things to help the family pay the bills. It was all about making money to help the family pay the bills in those days. I worked in a little tiny restaurant when I was 13 and 14 on the outskirts of Doylestown, and had a wonderful experience there. It was really a good thing to do, and it was a little more steady than the caddying. After that, I started working in a variety of businesses, but the one that when I was 16, I was working for a contractor and had appendicitis and so had to have surgery and could not go back to working in that work. So I had an aunt who worked in a chicken processing plant. They used to kill 2000 chickens a day, and turkeys and all kinds of stuff. And I was able to stand on the line and pick feathers off the chickens for a few months while I recuperated. Not a pleasant job, but it got more unpleasant because they paid well, and I was hired, when I was well to clean up the place after school each day, which meant blood and feathers into barrels which were hauled to farmers fields and that sort of thing. So I got my hands dirty, [laughs] And one or two nights a week, I would get on a truck with other crew, and we would go to farmers who had hundreds of chickens in low grade chicken houses, and we would load chickens into crates and haul them back to, and then I would go home and get ready for school. So I didn’t get a lot of sleep in those days, but it was a good job, and it brought some regular income to the family, which was necessary at that point.

Bali White [00:05:54] Absolutely. So, after you graduated, did you go to college?

Jim LaRue [00:06:00] Yes, I went to Bucknell University. I had an interesting experience. I drove my boss’s wife, and I and her daughter, who was a classmate of mine, to Bucknell for an interview with no intention of going to Bucknell. And when we got there and they had finished their interview, the registrar came out, and he said, How would you like to come to Bucknell? I said, Well, I couldn’t afford to come to Bucknell. That’s clear. So he said, Well, you know, this used to be a Baptist school, and I understand you come from a Baptist tradition, and we have a lot of money for Baptist students, and we’d be glad to use that money to have you come to Bucknell. And that’s how I got to Bucknell, and it paid my tuition for the four years that I was there.

Bali White [00:06:59] Where was Bucknell?

Jim LaRue [00:07:00] Bucknell is in Lewisburg, Pennsylvania, which is about 50, 60 miles north of Harrisburg.

Bali White [00:07:07] Okay. Yeah. So, were you living on campus?

Jim LaRue [00:07:11] Oh, yeah. Yeah. And I came to Bucknell with the notions of being an engineer. And after two years in the engineering program, it was my chemistry professor who said, Jim, you’re a great guy, but you’re a lousy chemist, and I think you need to find another thing to do. Well, people had been encouraging me to be in the ministry for years because I grew up in a small country church and was active in the programs of that church. But I had become a rather more liberal theologian than most of the people in my church or other places. And so I applied to a couple of seminaries, and they rejected me because I wasn’t religious enough. And so I was invited to a seminary in Rochester, New York, and I went there and was there for three years. By the way, when I was at Bucknell, I became president of the student body, [crosstalk] and that involved me in a lot of extra activities and things in the campus. Probably the most important thing that happened to me at Bucknell was when I became campus president, I was, one of my jobs was introducing chapel speakers each week. Chapels were required in those days, and I was to introduce the speakers for the chapels. And the speaker one week was Martin Luther King, who was beginning to be popular and known in the country. So I introduced Martin Luther King. But the most important thing is that I was invited to lunch with him and a few faculty and a couple of other students. And in the course of that sharing, we students didn’t share in it much. It was mostly the faculty and King talking about his emerging role in the Civil Rights movement. And at one point, King said, I am trying desperately to translate love into justice structures. And that hit me like a ton of bricks, and it became the ground of my life. It became more important than anything else. And almost through my whole life, I measure everything in terms of, if I love this, how do I translate it into a justice structure? And I spent my whole life doing that. And that’s how I got into housing, because I cared about low income people living in housing that they could afford or that they were entitled to.

Bali White [00:10:10] Absolutely. That’s an amazing story. At this time, was Bucknell University, was it an integrated university?

Jim LaRue [00:10:17] No.

Bali White [00:10:18] No?

Jim LaRue [00:10:18] I think we had three Black students on campus while I was there. We had a positive relationship with Howard University. Howard was, I think, originally a Baptist school and all Black. And so we would have exchange sessions with those. And I encouraged that. When I was president of the student body. We would go there, or they would come to Bucknell, and we would have exchange. And in light of King having come, we were involved even more.

Bali White [00:10:51] Could you recall the year this happened?

Jim LaRue [00:10:55] It would be 1958 and nine.

Bali White [00:10:59] Okay, awesome. So, after you graduated Bucknell University, what was your next step?

Jim LaRue [00:11:05] Next step was to Colgate Rochester Divinity School in Rochester, New York, which was a very liberal seminary. And it was an excellent place for me because it helped me work through what I really could do theologically and professionally. And I had some significant experiences there. Again, that justice thing in my head. I asked one professor if there was any kind of social program I could get involved in while I was at in Rochester. And he said, well, I know this woman who works with low-income people and with housing for low-income people. And one of the problems she’s been having recently is that people that are in the program were failing appointments with her, and she’s concerned about it because she did not have the time or the experience to go out and bang on their doors. So when I went to see her, she said, would you mind going out and banging on the doors of these women who have refused to come to my appointments? And I said, that’s great. So that’s what I did. For most of a year. I banged on doors, and I got people to come back for appointments because they saw a human being. It was not just a bureaucracy. And this woman was magnificent. And once these women met her, they were cool. It was good. So that was a very important and special experience there. I created the first journal, a monthly journal or newsletter for the seminary when I was there, because I thought the students were also educators. And so we created. We would create about a 30 page monthly piece with columns written by students of the different. There were three. It’s a three-year school, so that I was also head over heels in love with a childhood friend during that period. And we had decided we would get married. And after my first year of seminary, we got married. She was a nurse and helped very much pay bills, and- But she suddenly discovered herself pregnant, and we had a son. I was ordained on a Sunday, I was graduated on a Monday, and my son was born Tuesday. So he was a special event.

Bali White [00:14:08] Oh, yeah. That’s an amazing chain of events, all in three days. So after all of that, from my knowledge, you became a chaplain at the University of Wisconsin in Madison.

Jim LaRue [00:14:22] Yeah. When you’re graduating from seminary, churches come to interview you, and churches came to interview me, and they were no longer interested. After they interviewed me, I was more interested in justice than a lot of biblical stuff, and so I was in trouble. And so I started working for a painting contractor to pay the bills while we were living in Rochester in the seminary. But I needed to leave there by September, and in early August, I got a call from the University of Wisconsin. A chaplain at the Baptist student center there, said he had heard good things about me and would I be interested in coming to the University of Wisconsin. Well, I went out to interview. I fell in love with the place, and by the middle of September we were in Madison.

Bali White [00:15:22] How long were you there for?

Jim LaRue [00:15:24] I was six years in Madison, two years as the supporter of that person, and then four years as the director of the center myself. And my university experience was also significant. Well, our Baptist student center was actually a community of life and faith, and we had 30 students living in two big houses that we owned, and 15 students in each house, 15 men, 15 women, 15 international students, and 15 American students, because I wanted a mix of people, and we were not indoctrinating people. We were trying to share their experience, their own faith life from a different culture and our culture. And it was- It was a wonderful program. And so I was doing that during that period. But I became one of the primary leaders of the anti Vietnam war group during that period. And I felt that I had a real responsibility to counsel with students who were being drafted to go into that crazy ass war. And so I counseled with dozens of students, and a number of students were conscientious objectors who ended up going to prison for ten years. There was a hanging judge in Illinois who was sending people to sandstone prison in Minnesota for ten years. And some of these young men were fathers, graduate students at the university. And we tried to find ways of supporting them while they weren’t there. And we’re doing everything we could to get them legal counsel. And I increasingly got involved in the antiwar effort. The Quakers on campus were the real- And the faculty, Quaker faculty were tremendous. They were so thoughtful about it, and I got involved with them and was supporting them. And students started burning their draft cards, and I felt that I needed to be present to them. So I was seeing what’s going on. So I went to the- Every time they did a draft card burning, I would be there. And so I became known as the chaplain of the left of the antiwar movement. And it got me in a little trouble. I got a call one day from the Attorney General of Wisconsin, Bronson La Follette was his name. And he said, I think you have a problem. And I said, what’s that? He said, you have been secretly indicted with the YMCA director and one of the SOC faculty for aiding and abetting students resisting the draft. And if you are prosecuted, it’s ten years, prison. And so I knew the consequences of what I was into, and it didn’t change a thing for me if I already spent my dues, and I wasn’t going to waste it. So I continued, but I was never prosecuted. They went after a couple of other groups, the Chicago Seven, and I think there was another organization that they went after. I also got involved in civil rights stuff, and there was a restaurant on the outskirts of Madison that said, and proudly declared that they would not have any Blacks eating in their restaurant. Well, I called the Attorney General, who had told me about my other problem, and I said, if we picket that place or do something, would you back us up? And he said, I would appreciate it, because he was totally supportive of the Civil Rights movement. So my Y director friend and a Black friend who was a doctoral candidate for being a weather forecaster decided to go to this restaurant. So my friend, the Y director, and I went in and were quickly seated, and the place was packed. It was a Friday night. It was packed with people, and our friend Harry came to the door and they said, sorry, you’re not allowed to come in here. And we said, he’s our friend, and he has every right to come into a restaurant. They said, not this restaurant. And with that, they came and bodily threw us down the stairs of the place and threw us out of the restaurant. We called the Attorney General, who we had clued in about this. He instantly called the local police authority, and I think they were probably reluctant, but they came and closed the place down, and it was not opened again until they came to deal with the civil rights issues there. The antiwar thing got me into that political trouble, but all of those things led me to believe that it was the only thing you could do. How could I say I was a minister to students, ignore the fact that they were being sent to this silly war? The other thing that I was doing while I was a chaplain at Wisconsin is I got a call one day from the Black community. A community director there called me and said, we have a lot of kids that are struggling in school, and we could use some tutoring. Do you think you could find some students to tutor? So I had been, whenever students, I would each year get a Baptist student list of students on the campus, and then I would take them to lunch as a way of introducing myself. And I got to know a bunch of these students, though they never very much got involved in the campus ministry. But I said to them, to one of the students, would you be interested in being a tutor for black kids who are in the neighborhood? And he said, sure. And so the word spread. And when I left the university to come to Cleveland, there were 300 students, college students, on the list of volunteers for that center. It was deeply satisfying to know that these kids and I got a special greeting from the black community when I left Madison, they were very sorry to see me go. So I was in Madison for six years, and then I got a call from a campus ministry friend. He was black and he was Cleveland. There was a university Christian movement, and they were serving on the Case Western campus, Cleveland State, which was just opening, and Tri-C, which was just opening. And so I. He said, I’ve been asked by the Stokes administration. Carl Stokes had just been the first black elected as a mayor of a major city. And my friend Art Black was asked to be the community relations director for the mayor. And he said, I want you to be on the new Metro Campus and work with black students as much as possible, or at least make it easier for them to adjust to being in that campus. Because he said, it’s going to be essentially a Black campus. It’s in the neighborhoods of the black kids. So that’s what I did. And I. My first, Well, he said, would you come? And I said, I’ll come and look. So that was ’68, summer of ’68. That was on 4th of July. I came to Cleveland. I bought a house. I accepted the job. I bought a house and came back and loaded up and we went to Cleveland. And we were here by the 1st of September.

Bali White [00:24:52] Were you living in the Near West Side of Cleveland?

Jim LaRue [00:24:54] No, we were living in Warrensville Heights.

Bali White [00:24:56] Okay. Awesome.

Jim LaRue [00:24:58] And, well, it wasn’t awesome. It was terrible. The deed for my house said no Blacks, no Negroes or Jews are permitted to own a house in this community. That was on the deed. So a whole group of young lawyers and me and some other religious types began buying houses in the neighborhood to defy that rule and become part of the community. And the mayor was just terrible. Just awful. Fortunately, the school board was made up of some of the more liberal members of the community, and it was possible for black families to move in more quickly, get into the schools. And in the. I forget how many years we were there. I think almost nine. Yeah. Because my son was going into 9th grade when we moved to Shaker. Yeah. So that’s- Yeah.

Bali White [00:26:12] So could you kind of describe what Cleveland looked like upon your arrival? The conditions, crime rate, demographics?

Jim LaRue [00:26:21] Well, I was not looking at the big picture at that point. I was excited that there was a Black mayor. It made it easier to deal with a number of issues related to being a chaplain. I could suggest things to the new administration, and they knew where I was coming from, not just from the church, but from the support of the administration. And so it was possible to talk about a variety of things, like, we need to create a tutoring program for students in college. We had a lot of students coming who were bright but not together in terms of good stuff. So and then I got involved with Catholic chaplain, and then it became a. A chaplain and a woman, and then there was a Jewish woman who came to be present to the campus. And then I found a young man who was, he was not a very knowledgeable Muslim, but he was a Muslim, he called himself. And so we decided to make him our Muslim member of the staff. And so the four of us, well, there were two Catholics, five of us, working with students, and that was tough. In a campus like a commuter campus, where do you go to meet a student? What do you do to connect to people? And I spent a year when they were downtown, and then the new campus opened. And when I was first on the new campus, I was really wrestling with how in the world do we find a way to connect to this faculty and the students? Can you just walk up to a student who’s sitting on a thing and talk to them? Can you bang on the faculty member’s door and say, I’m the chaplain. We couldn’t have an office because we were religious in a state institution. So it was looking a little grim. And I talked it over with our staff back at Case Western, and they didn’t have any ideas. They weren’t familiar with that kind of campus. So one day I was standing in this large room. It was a lobby in one of the buildings, and I did get into conversation with one of the faculty, and I said, you know, I wish that we could have a coffee stand in this lobby here. It would be a chance for people to talk to each other. He said, why not? So he was a supporter. I went to the campus president, and I said, here’s a way I think we can be present to faculty and students. We’re not converting anybody. We’re just trying to be present to people. And what I would like to ask is if you would turn over, if you would ask the cafeteria to create at 7:00 each morning, they’re there already. A coffee and donut tray cart that I can push out into that area, we’ll charge a certain amount for the coffee and donuts, and then it all comes back to your place, to the kitchen. So we started the Coffee Pot, and by God, it worked. We had a terrific amount of exchange. I had faculty members who were going through divorces, sharing their lives. I had students who were in trouble, struggling with their lives. And it was- It was magnificent. One funny story, we couldn’t have an office, and I was sharing that with the members of the board of the campus ministry. And one of the board members said, I have this small trailer. I wonder if they let you- Did they let you park your car on the campus? I said, yeah. He said, I wonder if we could get my small trailer into the parking garage, then you could use it as an office. We did. We got the trailer. I had to let air out of the tires to get it under the door, and we parked it in the parking lot, and it was fun, and everybody laughed about it. Even the administration had to appreciate the craziness of what we did. It was only there a year. And with that, the administration said, I think we can find you an office. We know more about you. We know you’re not converting people, you’re not being obnoxious, and, in fact, you’ve been very helpful to us. And so that’s what happened. One of the most important things that happened to me in that year, not the first year, it was into the second or third year after the school opened, I was talking to a student who just came back from Vietnam, and I began to count how many students there were, Vietnam veterans. And you could tell some because they had burns, just all kinds of problems. And I suddenly realized we had a ministry to these people, and it wasn’t about converting them, it was about caring for them. And so I went to the administration, and I said, I noticed there’s a small area down on the lower level that’s not being used, and I would like to create that into a space for veterans to just gather with each other and be supportive of each other. He said, do it. So I found a student, Jay Lamposone was his name. And I said, Jay, you’re a vet. You know other veterans, and let’s figure out a way to get this open in two weeks. We were open, and the veterans all knew then. I mean, we had veterans who were burned, had all kinds of scars and psychologically damaged, and we had 30 or 40 vets a day coming into that space and just being themselves, just relaxing, talking to other vets. And an example of what happened. I got a call one night from Jay, and he said, can you be with me in court tomorrow? And I said, oh, Jay, what have you done? Have you gotten yourself in trouble? He said, no, just come. So I went, and it turned out Jay wanted to change his name to John Died. His friend John was blown away right next to him while he was in Vietnam. He changed his name to John Died. I just stood there and cried. That’s all I could do. But it was that kind of exchange that was going on. And when the administration realized that that was the kind of thing we were able to do, and we couldn’t count any conversions, all we could count was people who were being cared for, just like translating love into justice structures. So the other chaplains and I were talking one day with the President, and he said, I think you ought to create a comparative religion course, and it would be a way of sharing without proselytizing. And with that encouragement, he appointed me the one to organize it, and I did. We created a comparative religion course that went on the rest of the time that I was at Tri-C, and it was still there when I left. I don’t know whatever happened to it, but that was another significant experience that was worth doing. And then I would mention one other thing that was part of my translating love into justice thing, because it was still ringing in my ears. One day, one of the counselors called me and said, you know this stupid university, they won’t let us talk to students about their lives. We have to talk to them about their grades and their course load. And she said, we are all thoughtful people. We could be helpful to people. She said, I have a list of 20 women who have been students here and have dropped out just before the last quarter. And she said, we don’t know what it’s about. We don’t understand what the hell is going on. And I said, I’ll go bang on their doors because I can do that. You can’t. So I took the list, but 20 some women, and started banging on the project doors. And I got into conversations with these women, and it was just amazing what happened. They were dropping out because they were scared to be in a new environment which their education would have provided them with. In other words, they knew who they were in the projects. They didn’t know who they were going to be if they were out working in a business or an office or some other thing. And they were just petrified. So I came back to the counselors in the school, and I said, that’s the problem. You got to get them together. Well, the woman who was the head of the library heard about what I had done, and she called me in, and we talked, and she said, I have been wanting to get a women’s program started in this campus from the beginning. And with everything else happening, it was impossible. This is the day. And so in the lobby of the theater, I think 19 or 20 of the 23 women showed up. And this woman led the discussion with the counselors to get these women back into school and to help them talk through what it was that was hanging them up about being out of the projects, because they were motivated enough to work in the projects and fight for their kids and fight for things in the projects, but they didn’t know how to do it in another environment. And that was the beginning of the women’s program at Tri-C, and I was out of it the first day. [laughs] There was no room for me in the project after that first day, but it was good. And I consider that one of my major contributions during the campus years. My last story about campus, I was also involved in the anti war movement in Cleveland. It was very active. And my last involvement with campus ministry was one of my colleagues, a woman, was at Case Western, and she was gay. Well, she wasn’t very well received by the board. I had been involved with gay women and men, but mostly gay women, while I was at the University of Wisconsin. And I used to do weddings for gays that were not legal. And they would come and there would be as many as 200 gays gathered, and I would do the wedding, and they would celebrate like it was a wedding, but of course, it was not a real wedding until lately. So Nancy, the student, said, I mean, a colleague, said, I want to come out with my partner, who was our lawyer, our family lawyer. And so we knew them well, both very well. And the next. That night, the board fired her from the ministry. And I learned about that the next day. And that was on Thursday. And on Friday, I resigned the campus ministry and then began my life in housing.

Bali White [00:39:46] Awesome. Yeah. So we’re gonna switch gears into that, actually. Housing.

Jim LaRue [00:39:52] I would like to switch gears and find a John. [laughs]

Bali White [00:39:57] Let’s pause this real quick. All right, so I guess my next question is, so how did you get involved with repairing and rehabbing houses in the Near West Side?

Jim LaRue [00:40:08] Well, but can I tell you how I got into that? First, [crosstalk] because my wife is a nurse, so we had income, but I didn’t know quite what I would do for income. So I called a friend who owned a number of apartment buildings. He was an active churchman. And I said, do you have any work? And I told him what happened. He was so pleased at what I had done that he said, I have a building with ten toilets that don’t work, and if you can get him working, you’re on board. So my first job, the day after I resigned from campus ministry, was fixing ten toilets.[laughs] And it wasn’t pretty, but I was able to work with him for a year. And then a friend, two Black folks who I met while I was working for him to do some repairs on their house, said, we’re members of the Glenville Presbyterian Church, which is Black, mostly Black, but there are some Whites. And we understand you are a minister, and would you be willing to be an interim pastor of our church while we’re looking for a new minister? And I thought about it, and I said, well, yeah, why not? So I spent a year as a pastor of that Black church in Glenville, and I repaired the building. [laughs] The building was in desperate shape, and so that’s what I did for a year. And then a colleague from campus ministry, Lutheran, said he was going to start Lutheran Housing Corporation to start rehabbing housing in the inner city. And I said, well, that’s of interest to me. And he said, I want you to supervise the rehab of the housing. And we’re trying to get families that can pay a mortgage, but they can find housing. So I started working for Lutheran housing, and I rehabbed several dozen houses and one 13 suite apartment building and several smaller apartment buildings. And I began to learn what was happening in housing in the inner city. And it was. It was hard. It was not easy to find work, workers who could afford to work in that kind of situation. There were good contractors, but they weren’t going to work for what we could afford to pay. So I continued to do that work. That 13 suite apartment building, I reduced to a seven suite building, and a whole bunch of bigwigs from Washington came out to see it because they said that’s something that we could afford to support if we can get housing that can take larger families and keep them in that, in the neighborhoods. So, that’s what I did for the next four years. And then the director and I and the guy who had been in charge of the publicity, he was a graphic artist, decided that we wanted to create a Housing Resource Center, a demonstration house that people could come to to see how to repair their houses. And, oh, while I was with Lutheran Housing, I started a tool loan on West 45th Street. Well, I spent several months looking for a place that we could use and finally found the building, and it’s still there and still providing tools. Although it was a struggle. I got a call at 4:00 in the morning one day, and the funeral director at the next door house said, somebody is in your building. And I jumped in my car from Shaker and came over, and there was a huge hole in the roof. They had cut a hole in the roof and gotten in and were hauling tools out of the tool loan. And then I had another call in the night, and a big truck had backed into the parking garage, which has all the big tools, like power lawn mowers and so on. And they backed the truck in and knocked the door down and then hauled off all of the power tools. So once we solved how to protect this stuff, the tool loan started, and I think it’s still going. And I would go out to the houses of people and show them how to use a tool. And that’s one of the things that encouraged us to do the Housing Resource Center, and so on West 48th Street, we bought an old house with the help of the Gund and another foundation. We opened it, and I started doing workshops at the Housing Resource Center as we were putting the house together. And we left all the walls open on the inside so that people could see how a house looks inside the walls. And it was a wonderful experience. The graphic artist was interested in getting into green building and environmental building and healthy housing. And there was a group called Environmental Health Watch that was started by Stu Greenberg at the same time that we were starting the Resource Center. And we worked with him to create the first national conference on healthy hou

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