Abstract
Joseph Jones discusses his early life growing up in the Hough and Glenville neighborhoods. He describes his family and his career. He also discusses his work with Union Miles Development Corporation and how it has impacted him.
Interviewee
Jones, Joseph (interviewee)
Interviewer
Carubia, Ava (interviewer)
Project
Union-Miles
Date
12-11-2024
Document Type
Oral History
Duration
32 minutes
Recommended Citation
"Joseph Jones interview, 11 December 2024" (2024). Cleveland Regional Oral History Collection. Interview 483006.
https://engagedscholarship.csuohio.edu/crohc000/1356
Transcript
Ava Carubia [00:00:00] So we’re recording now. Today is December 11th, 2024. My name is Ava Carubia, and I’m here at NuPoint Development Corporation in Cleveland, Ohio, interviewing Joseph Jones for the Cleveland Regional Oral History Project. Thank you for agreeing to be interviewed today.
Joseph Jones [00:00:19] You’re welcome.
Ava Carubia [00:00:00] And for the record, can you please state your name, your birth date, and where you were born?
Joseph Jones [00:00:25] Joseph Jones, […] 1960. Cleveland, Ohio.
Ava Carubia [00:00:33] Perfect. So I want to start at that point of your life. Can you talk about exactly where you were born, where you grew up, and what your early life was like?
Joseph Jones [00:00:44] I grew up 71st and Linwood, and then it was pretty decent down there. So we wind up moving on 93rd and St. Clair, which is on the east side. And when I moved over there, life had got a little better. I went to a better school, lived in a better home, and lived in a better neighborhood. As I was growing up, I had parents that were strict. So therefore I did things that I was supposed to do. I finished school, elementary school there.
Ava Carubia [00:01:40] What elementary school did you go to?
Joseph Jones [00:01:42] Miles Standish. It’s no longer. Well, it’s back open, so it’s another kind of school now. But anyway, I grew up at. I mean, I look at Miles Standish Elementary School. Then I went to Empire Junior High School, and then I graduated from there. And also then I went to Glenville Senior High School. I dropped out of school, found a job, and I’ve been working ever since. And I started doing nursing, my first job. I started that at 19 years old. I worked in nursing for 17 years. Then I went to another job, which was spraying. I was where painted tie rods, valve covers, spray painter. Let me say that. I was a spray painter. Then I moved on and. Excuse me, I moved on with housekeeping. I started doing housekeeping. I didn’t have so many jobs. It’s just, you know, all my father and my mother taught me was to work. So that’s all I’ve been doing for a long time. You know, as far as me growing up, I wasn’t a bad kid. I was a loner. I did a lot of things around the house for my parents. Also, I had friends that kept me busy, you know, painted homes, cut grass. I did all of it to make ends meet for myself. And now I’m just still working, you know. Come on, tell me what you need.
Ava Carubia [00:04:22] Well, I want to go back to what you said. You said your parents were pretty strict. Can you talk a little bit more about your family?
Joseph Jones [00:04:27] Well, we’re, well, the main thing is when I mean strict, they were. They wassn’t going for me hanging in the streets. They wasn’t. They was trying to guide me to do right things instead of wrong things. They taught me how to be disciplined. They taught me how to deal with life. They taught me how to be sociable with adults. They taught me a lot. They. Well, my parents, they was the beautifulest parents I ever had. I went everywhere. I went out of town. They sent me to Kansas City, Pennsylvania, and Birmingham, Alabama. We used to just travel. And once they had got older, it slowed down, you know. And my parents, they both. My mother was an accountant. My father was a baker. My mother worked for [unclear] Sausage, and my father worked for Wonder Bread. And they were married for 60 something years before they passed away. My father died in 2007 and my mom passed away in 2010.
Ava Carubia [00:06:01] So was it just you and your parents?
Joseph Jones [00:06:04] Oh, no. I have one brother.
Ava Carubia [00:06:05] Okay.
Joseph Jones [00:06:06] And he’s older. His name is Vermont Jones. He lived a different life for me. He was. You know how you have a troubled child and a good child, and I was a good child and he was the troubled child. So now he’s doing pretty good. He got his, you know, he’s doing great. He’s hanging in there. I take care of him today. I take care of my brother. He’s handicapped now. So I go over there and check on him and make sure he got something to eat. Whatever he need, I’m there for him.
Ava Carubia [00:06:52] And why did your family move to Cleveland? Where were your parents from?
Joseph Jones [00:06:59] My father was from Pennsylvania. Newcastle, Pennsylvania. My mom’s was always from Cleveland. And my father met my mother through coming up here to see his sisters. Some kind of way they met. I don’t know exactly how, where they met at, but I know they met in Cleveland. My father met my moms in Cleveland and they got married at. My mother was 18, my father was 19. So they’ve been married for a long. They were married for a long time.
Ava Carubia [00:07:36] Wow.
Joseph Jones [00:07:37] Yeah, a long time. Because now my mom and dad is in their 90s, and so they. Well, when they were 11, it was 60 something years then. So you can imagine what it is now. Yeah. Matter of fact, their anniversary is December 27th of this month. Yeah.
Ava Carubia [00:08:03] Where was your mom from in Cleveland?
Joseph Jones [00:08:06] My mom, she stayed on Scovill. Her family stayed on Scovill, which is down there by 55th. And it was 55th and Scovill, which he went a long way from. Wow. 55th of Scovill, from all the way to 70, 60 something that I can remember. They used to take me to the baseball games. That’s when the baseball games were on. I can’t think of this street, but it was the old stadium before they built the one downtown. And, yeah, it’s a long time, but my mom used to. Matter of fact, my mom used to take me to a lot of baseball games, to the circus. My moms did everything for me and my brother. Circus, globetrotters, we did everything. Yeah, my moms was one of those ladies that said, let’s go, let’s go. Yeah. And we enjoyed being around our parents. So we were very lucky, you know, me and my brother, we were lucky to have parents like that. You know, some people had good parents, and some people had parents that couldn’t do what my parents did. My mom, she had two brothers. One stayed in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, and one I never saw. He passed away before I even got to see him. My father had eight sisters, one brother. I never seen this brother because he was born retarded. I shouldn’t say that. Well, he was born retarded, but the eight sisters, oh, my. It was. It was a lot of joy in his family, too. But most of his family stayed in Pennsylvania. He only had two sisters. Three sisters at the time that stayed up in Cleveland. And I have a large family members through my father’s side, but not my mother’s side. So they were beautiful, though I miss them today. I still think about them right now. Today. Next question.
Ava Carubia [00:11:08] Well, you talked about moving to 93rd and St. Clair, and you said that when you got there, that area was a little better. Can you just talk about the difference between where you grew up at first and then that?
Joseph Jones [00:11:22] Well, when I. When I was living over there by 71st and Hough, that’s when the riots was going on. And so by me and my brother being little at that time, I-
Ava Carubia [00:11:39] How old were you?
Joseph Jones [00:11:41] Five and six. When I was five, my brother was six. And they didn’t want to be around that kind of environment because it was. It had got real bad. Back then when we were living on 71st and Hough. At that time, it was a group called the Black Nationals and another group called the Black Panthers. So I guess all that, them two groups had gotten to, which is what I’m trying to say, they got in a confrontation, and it turned out to be a riot. So after that, I guess my parents wanted to get away from that neighborhood because of having two kids, and they wanted us to grow right, grow up right. She didn’t want. My moms, really didn’t want us to be around none of that kind of environment because she was. She was one of those Christian ladies that weren’t having that, you know. So we moved over to, like I said, St. Clair. St. Clair wasn’t as bad, but it was bad but not like where we moved from, 71st and Hough. And like I said, we got good. We got good educations over there from the schools that we went to. And like I say, we stayed over there for a long time. We stayed over there for. From ’60, ’68 to about 20 something 20. I left him over there in 2014.
Ava Carubia [00:13:41] Wow.
Joseph Jones [00:13:43] After my parents died, we sold the house and I moved on to where I can live to my standards. I really couldn’t afford holding all that together because at the time, like I say, my brother had a stroke and I was taking care of him while we were still living over there. From when my brother had a stroke, 20, 2008. So I took care of him and my mother until 2010. My moms passed and my brother was still living there. I was taking care of him then, working all kind of jobs to try to keep the house going and got to the point where we couldn’t hold it down no more. So I always was busy trying to help somebody in my family. And so I wound up, as we got older, I wound up finding a place for my brother to live in a nice home for himself. You know, I went on and moved into an apartment and he had his and I had mines. And I would go over there every other day and check on stuff like that before I go to work. So I worked a lot of places. I worked at a lot of nursing homes. I worked at restaurants and I worked at facilities that just needed housekeeping. I worked it in a lot of factories. I was a busy guy. And still. And I’m still going.
Ava Carubia [00:15:53] Yeah. When did you start working here?
Joseph Jones [00:15:57] I started working here. I’m explaining to you how I got this job. They had a program called. It was called Black Caucus. Well, it was up on Fair Hill and they were hiring people for side jobs. It was a 55 year old program. And so I wind up going there and they sent me to Union Miles Development Center. So I’ve been working for Union Miles Development Centers since 2019 and I’m still with them today. I like working with people that I can learn from. I learned a lot from these people at Union Miles Development Center. And they also taught me how to be better person. You know, they been looking out for me for five, five to six years now.
Joseph Jones [00:17:13] And this where I’m going to retire from. I love helping the community, which I learned through Union Miles Development Center. I just like helping people, period. You know, that’s how you get blessings. So I’m still working for them today. And like I said, I’ll never leave this place. I’ll be here until I can’t work no more. And that’s a promise.
Ava Carubia [00:17:54] I’m thinking a lot. I mean, you grew up a little bit further north on the east side. How have you seen the east side, and then also specifically Union-Miles change throughout your lifetime?
Joseph Jones [00:18:11] Well, when I was on the east side, down lower part of the east side, it was. It was a lot of problems down there. People, people was bullies and stuff like that. But I didn’t get into all of that. I always went another way as I got older. Like I say, the more older I got, the better my mind got. And honestly, when I started working for Union Miles, it even got better. Like I say, I still had a little doubts in my mind about areas I was in and stuff like that. But like I say, Union-Miles was one of the best areas that I’ve been around.
Ava Carubia [00:19:09] Can you explain why?
Joseph Jones [00:19:11] Why is because by me being a new face over here, I met a lot of people in the neighborhood by just working for Union-Miles. So a lot of people know me from working through Union Miles. And honestly, the two ladies that were my bosses, they taught me a little bit of this and they taught me a little bit that, a little bit of that. And that’s how I became a better man. Honestly, it took all that street knowledge out of me and got me going like I was supposed to be going. But, you know, wherever I went, I was able to handle myself. It was just that I didn’t want to be around it. I don’t like being around bad because that’s what leads you into doing wrong things. So I was glad that I really got with Union Miles. Cause I could have been worse, you know, because, you know the kind, the pressure is, it ain’t nothing to play with. So, you know, I have kids I have to feed. I had grandkids I had to feed. And you know, how you help your kids out. You know, I had to do all of that. I’m proud of myself.
Ava Carubia [00:20:51] I want to go back to something you said a while ago, and you’re talking about the Hough riots and the Black Nationalists and the Black Panthers. I know you were pretty young, but what was sort of the sense you got during that time of like, the political, maybe racial climate?
Joseph Jones [00:21:06] Oh, honestly, to be honest with you, I’m not. I’m not for sure how all that went down. But it was, to me, it was a scary situation. When you hearing policemen shootings and things catching on fire, that’s what was going on. And that’s another reason why we moved from down in that area, because that’s what was going on over there at the time. So, honestly, I don’t know how none of that stuff started or anything. I just remember hearing the sirens, the smell of burnt houses and stuff like that. You know, I was young, so I didn’t really know how none of that started. You know, it was just that we heard it. And my parents didn’t even, you know, say too much about it because maybe they didn’t want us to know. But we got out of there before it got worse, you know. You know, our parents got us out of there, and I appreciated because that was a bad area at that time. Next question.
Ava Carubia [00:22:36] Well, after the Hough riots, like, what also is the sense that you got of sort of the political, racial climate in Cleveland in general, like, as you were growing up?
Joseph Jones [00:22:46] What you mean?
Ava Carubia [00:22:47] Like, I mean, I guess that’s not really a good question. Let me kind of change it. Just as you were growing up, what was Cleveland like?
Joseph Jones [00:22:58] Oh, it was. Cleveland was. Well, from my point, as me growing up in Cleveland, Cleveland always have been a nice place to live. It just. Some of that place at that time wasn’t the right place to live in. And like I said, as we moved, it had got better. Don’t get me wrong, it was problems going on. We just. It wasn’t that many problems like it was on Hough. And like I said, I had gotten to better school. Homework daily, chores daily. My mom, she had us busy all the time where we wouldn’t be involved with that bad environment. So, by the grace of God, if it weren’t for her, maybe it would have got bad. But she kept us away from all of that, you know, which was good. You know, I never been in trouble as far as incarcerated and stuff like that. You know, she taught me very well. And like I say, I appreciate all of that. I really do. Now, I also could say, like I said, we always had somewhere to go. We always stayed on the go just to avoid all the stuff that was going on in Cleveland or whatever. If something happened on St. Clair, it wasn’t as much like Hough. And at that time, I couldn’t. I couldn’t see when I was coming up. I couldn’t be out with other kids and. And play and stuff like that, because my moms didn’t allow that. My moms allowed it “Oh, no, son, you gonna be in here reading these books.” And that’s how I was. And like I said, they. All the activities that me and my brother had, it was always inside the house, you know, they, like I say, brought us everything. Pool tables. At that time, the gang called Atari, and they kept us in the house more the majority of the time. I mean, it was so where we couldn’t go outside during the week. We only can go outside during the weekends because my mama was strict in getting homework done and reading books and, you know, we used to go Bible school studies and go to church faithfully every Sunday. We did all of that, you know what I mean? So that’s why I’m so glad that my parents raised me right. You know, like I said, my brother was a problem child, not me. And I’ve been like this for a long time. I always try to do right than I do wrong. I prefer to help, like, right now, I prefer to help people than lead them the wrong way, you know? And I’m gonna be like that to the day I go, you know.
Ava Carubia [00:26:52] I think, like, another question I have is you talk that you talked about how coming here, coming into Union-Miles was good, but I’m wondering, like, how would you compare Union-Miles to maybe other neighborhoods in Cleveland? What was different about it?
Joseph Jones [00:27:14] Well, I’ll be honest with you. It seemed like when I started working for Union Miles, I met a lot of political people. I met friends of theirs that were somewhere down the line in their little work program system or whatever. And it really kind of changed me. You know, when you be around. When you be around people that’s doing right, it make you want to do more right. And then they were teaching me, showing me stuff where, you know, how to deal with other people, you know, and then once they gave me a job there, they gave me a position to be a maintenance technician. And my job was for people that had to deal with the system downtown, which it called community service or something like that. And I met a lot of people like that. And all I could do was talk to these people and try to guide them into the right. Guide me to the right life. And I’m still like that today. You know, I give them a day and try to do the same thing. I always try to talk to the young generation and keep their head above water and talk to them about. Talk to them about doing the right things that they need to do. You know, there’s a lot of kids out here nowadays today. They didn’t have no parent guidance. So, like, I always tell them, if you need somebody to talk to, you come talk to me. And like I said, you know, my bosses, they nice. They. The whole staff is nice. You know, I just like being around those type of people, you know, because I learned a lot from all of them. Honestly, I did. Between me and you, I learned a lot. They don’t know that, but I did. It changed me a little bit.
Ava Carubia [00:30:01] This is kind of touching on something you already said, and I think this will be our last question, and I’ll give you time to add anything that we missed. But what message would you like to leave for future generations?
Joseph Jones [00:30:20] I would say live. I’m gonna put it real short. If you do right, it’s gonna be all right. And that’s my motto. If you do right, it’s gonna be all right. And I tell anybody that, that I know. I tell a lot of guys, even females, I tell them, you have to do right for your life to be okay. If you don’t do that, you’re going to catch the blues all your life. First of all, you have to go to school and finish your education. And if you want to be somewhere and you stay out of trouble and stuff like that, you know, you need. It’s a lot of kids out here need guidance and a lot of the adults not giving it to them. So I got all the time in the world to give it to him. You know what I mean? So my thing is just if you do right, it’s going to be all right, you know, I can’t see it no other way, you know? So.
Ava Carubia [00:31:35] Thank you. Is there anything else that you’d like to add that we didn’t talk about?
Joseph Jones [00:31:46] No, not really. I just appreciate you having me to do this interview with you because I honestly, I never done one in my life as far as like this, so, you know, I mean, you know, I’m kind of proud of myself to have the guts to do something like this.
Ava Carubia [00:32:07] I’m proud of you.
Joseph Jones [00:32:08] Yeah. Yeah.
Ava Carubia [00:32:09] Thank you.
Joseph Jones [00:32:10] You’re so welcome.
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