Abstract
John Rivera-Resto reflects on his Cleveland roots and upbringing in Puerto Rico, detailing his journey as an artist. He discusses his early artistic experiences, perspectives on "propaganda art," and the community impact he aims to achieve through his work. The conversation includes insights into his notable mural, "It's Up To Us," his involvement with LatinUs Theater, and his ventures into filmmaking. Additionally, he provides guidance for aspiring artists, highlighting the significance of skill and discipline, while sharing his impressions of Cleveland after returning from Puerto Rico and his commitment to mentoring young artists.
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Interviewee
Rivera-Resto, John (interviewee)
Interviewer
Martínez Abeijón, Matías (interviewer); Souther, Mark (facilitator)
Project
Voces de Cleveland
Date
5-27-2025
Document Type
Oral History
Duration
54 minutes
Recommended Citation
"John Rivera-Resto interview, 27 May 2025" (2025). Cleveland Regional Oral History Collection. Interview 641001.
https://engagedscholarship.csuohio.edu/crohc000/1395
Transcript
Matías Martínez Abeijón [00:00:05] Today’s date is Tuesday, May 27, 2025. My name is Matías Martínez Abeijón with the Cleveland Regional Oral History Collection at Cleveland State University. My colleague Mark Souther will be the facilitator for this interview. Today we will be interviewing John Rivera-Resto. Thank you, thank you very much for meeting with us, John.
John Rivera-Resto [00:00:24] It is my pleasure.
Matías Martínez Abeijón [00:00:26] For the record, could you state and spell your name for us?
John Rivera-Resto [00:00:30] My name in Spanish is John Rivera-Resto, in English is John Rivera-Resto. John, J-O-H-N, R-I-V as in Victor-E-R-A dash R-E-S-T-O.
Matías Martínez Abeijón [00:00:45] Thank you very much. Where and when were you born, John?
John Rivera-Resto [00:00:51] I was born a few miles from here at Grace Hospital, next to Lincoln Park at Tremont, Cleveland, Ohio, in November 7, 1958, at six in the morning.
Matías Martínez Abeijón [00:01:05] Where did you go to high school?
John Rivera-Resto [00:01:07] I went to high school in the early ’70s in a small town in Puerto Rico called Las Piedras. Very industrial town. The name of the school was Ramon Power y Giralt.
Matías Martínez Abeijón [00:01:21] Very good. When did you first realize that you had an interest in the arts? What inspired you to become an artist?
John Rivera-Resto [00:01:32] I always been a voracious reader and I enjoy a good story. And in Puerto Rico, I was- Library was my second home. And I just like to read the life of artists because I thought they got away with everything. I never wanted to be an artist in my entire life, but could care less about it. I just thought they were interesting people.
Matías Martínez Abeijón [00:01:53] Excellent. Can you tell us a little bit about your experience in college and how it relates to your practice and to your work?
John Rivera-Resto [00:02:02] I didn’t learn a darn thing in college about my career. Actually, I dropped out of college early on. I came here to study, didn’t enjoy the experience. Dropped out, built a career. Came back 10 years later when I didn’t really give a damn about grades. And that’s the way I did it. But by then I already had an artistic career that began at 16.
Matías Martínez Abeijón [00:02:30] Very good. How did you end up living in Cleveland? I know that you were born in Cleveland, but it’s my understanding that you grew up in Puerto Rico.
John Rivera-Resto [00:02:39] Yes, I was here until I was five and then my parents returned to Puerto Rico. My father used to be a worker at Ford Motor Company. My mother was a seamstress with Joseph and Feiss, now bought by Hugo Boss. And they decided to go home and stay with family, which was fantastic because I loved growing up in Spanish culture, and Spanish is my primary language. By 1977, I wanted to spread my wings. I wanted to be Errol Flynn. And I figured, might as well just use art. I don’t like it, but it’s my only crush. I ended up in Cleveland because I had an uncle here. That’s when I discovered that I was white.
Matías Martínez Abeijón [00:03:23] If I may ask, what were just some original goals when you started creating art? I recall that on your website I learned a little bit that your first commission was from your father. And what were some of your original goals when you started doing tasks and things?
John Rivera-Resto [00:03:43] My father dared me to make a copy of this mural. It was a minister from Venezuela who paid for his ministry by painting. Was excellent. Doing landscapes. And he had done in a local church. About a 12 by 8 mural. Landscape, river. It’s that kind of thing that mostly Protestant churches have. And I made a little copy using finger paints. And that was it. I won the bet. He showed it to my grandfather, who was deacon of this church. They were building the largest temple in the island of Puerto Rico. The pastor looked at it. He was impressed that I was an artist and made me a visit. And I was scared because I was not a very pious person. Never been. But he said, no, Junito, I’m a junior, so come check it out. I didn’t tell him I never painted before in my life. I had no aspirations. And when I saw it, I convinced him that instead of making a little painting. Why not decorate the whole front of the church? 2,275 square feet of wall. Never realizing that someone I would have to do it. Six months later I’d done it and I was pretty famous.
Matías Martínez Abeijón [00:04:55] Very good. How have your goals evolved as years have gone by with your work?
John Rivera-Resto [00:05:03] As I said, I never wanted to be an artist. I never had an agenda. It so happened that it pays the bills. And I’m very good at it. My thing is literature, traveling, getting those experiences. Just that art offers me a way to have a voice. And I find out that I can reach a hell of a lot of people if I have that kind of voice. Because instead of telling people something is better, they can see it. That’s why I hate repeating my work. And I can express myself in many ways in art, not just painting. Painting is the least thing I do.
Matías Martínez Abeijón [00:05:40] Very well. Can you expand a little bit about how your work engages with the public? How the work engages-?
John Rivera-Resto [00:05:47] Yes. My specialty is propaganda art. I know how to push buttons. And basically my work is a bulletin board. If I want to say something, I listen to people, et cetera. So they’re very much engaged. I only paint when I get hired to paint. This has happened for decades, but that’s the way it is. And if I’m going to do a mural and it deals with some people, I interview people, I listen to their stories, et cetera. And I try to visualize that movie in one still, one movie still, that can compact all that. And like I said, I’m very skilled. I’m trained from Renaissance painting all the way to Victorian painting. I can recreate any style simply because I used to read about it. So I’m self-taught in that respect. And it comes very easy to me. And theater being my main thing, my paintings are nothing more than a stage play in one shot.
Matías Martínez Abeijón [00:06:43] Very good. Can you expand a little bit on your interest in the notion of propaganda?
John Rivera-Resto [00:06:48] Yes. I’m always convinced how people jump from buildings and out of cliffs when someone tells them or follow a leader, that kind of thing. So studying how the mind works was extremely important to me. What colors are we attracted, what shapes, how does that affect, depending on gender, depending on culture, et cetera, how it’s being used in the past. And of course, if you look at all the great painters, let’s say for example, Jacques David in France during the Napoleon era, he’s one of the best, fantastic artists, but he really knew how to create an image that would provoke emotion. If you can create an emotional response on a person, that means you’re doing something right. It’s not about if it’s good or bad or right or wrong. It’s about generating that response.
Matías Martínez Abeijón [00:07:37] Thank you. How do you want your overall work, whether it’s the murals, the theater, your illustrations, how do you want it to impact the community, or how do you expect it to impact the community?
John Rivera-Resto [00:07:53] How do I want it to impact the community? I’m not sure. I have a website that I began in 2003 or 6. Being all over the world, I got mail from over 40 countries. So I guess people are impacted because I’m not the traditional artist. Okay. I live the artistic life. It’s a little different. And I try to demystify what artists do. So when it comes to communities, if I have something to say and it’s well-received or it starts some kind of discussion, that is good.
Matías Martínez Abeijón [00:08:30] Excellent. It is my understanding that you have frequently worked, particularly in your murals, with teams of artists and a diversity of people depending on the needs of the projects. Can you tell us who else contributes to your work and how do they contribute?
John Rivera-Resto [00:08:46] I’m a solo artist, always have been. But when I do murals, I engage people, mostly teenagers, I train them. I like people who have no experience in art, because those have been the worst. I like people who come like an empty vessel and not afraid, and I take them step by step and they can do it. I can teach anybody to paint a mural in six months. It’s that simple. Okay. Designing it is a difficult part. Okay. And for me, once I design something, the fun is over. Painting is a tedious thing. So I’m very fast because of that.
Matías Martínez Abeijón [00:09:21] Excellent. One of the most visible and popular works in Cleveland is the mural “It’s Up To Us” in the intersection of Clark and West 25th Street. Can you tell us a little bit about how the project came to be? What were some of the motivations to create the work and what were some of the challenges you faced in the process of completing it?
John Rivera-Resto [00:09:40] Having been born in Cleveland, and I want to leave my mark, at least do one job, to say, hey, I was born here. John lived here. That’s close by. The thing about being an artist is that I never had a business card, a phone. I didn’t promote it myself or anything. I always got my word of, word of mouth. There’s this gentleman from Canada, named Luciani, and he was working for the city of Cleveland, and he had been to L.A., Philadelphia, all of these places. And he said, oh, my God, these wonderful murals, let’s do them. I can get some kids. So he went to the Gordon Square Theater, where I was painting the ceiling, and I told him, I hate to disappoint you. Those were done by professionals. There was no kids there. People were trained, and they cost a ton of money because, let’s face it, imagine you’re paying a mechanic a year to fix your car. It doesn’t happen all the time. Which is why murals were always the realm of churches and corporations and people with deep pockets. They mean something. They’re the kings of art. He said, I’ll be back in a year. I’m gonna find a wall, I’m gonna find the money, we’re going to do it. And of course, I had to have the kids. So I said, okay. The only way I’m going to do it, I’m going to take those kids, train them for three months, and they’re going to know more than college students by the time they’re done. And he found two walls. I began two murals simultaneously. One was on the west side, that wall, on a private building because it was a doctor, Dr. Rinaldi, brother of the famous personality of Big Chuck and Lil’ John here, he was retired in Miami. He said, okay, I’ll donate the wall as long as there’s nothing offensive. So I listened to the community. They said, we want no wallflowers, et cetera. We know that’s not your specialty. We want the unvarnished thing. And I said, why don’t we do this like the picture of Dorian Gray? Why don’t we paint a series of buildings representing from the ’70s up to now where this play can be. And the cars on the building and the paint is the progression. And then we cast it with above 50 actors, each one with a story interconnected from then to now. That’s how we did it. I spent two years on it. It was hell. Got death threats, all kinds of problems, flak, from the city. Actually fired the city. Went to the community, said, let’s do it on your own. They got the money. The councilperson turned around because they wanted me to begin to change things. For example, that homeless gentleman, we’ll call him Willie, has to be a veteran, which I’m very connected to. Veterans wanted to come here and kill somebody. They said, no, that’s not it. Or the police officer’s white. It should be Black. Why? That’s not the story I’m relating. Or you got a Muslim kid there and you got an Asian kid there. Or are they Black, are they white, are they this, are they that? All kinds of problems. Oh, we don’t want the city paying for that. It’s private. We don’t want the city or tax money going to this. All kinds of problems. And once it was done, everybody turned around, everybody wanted to own it. They gave me an award by the city and sitting there when they gave me the award were all those people who said, “Shouldn’t do it.” So, yes, it’s significant. It touched a chord. Once I finished, I said, I’m done with it. But somehow it spread through the Internet. It became a most Instagrammable place in Cleveland. The trolley came, when Kevin Costner was doing a movie. They came actually to film it. I get mail from a lot of places that tell me about it, what it means to them. And when I pass by it, I don’t even look at it. It was defamed by some out-of-town kids. And they are a mix of people in the neighborhood, from gangs to doctors. I knew before the police who did it because they told me, “We know who they are. What do you want me to do with them?” I said, “Nothing.” In the murals, I employ people from the community. They gave me advice. It doesn’t matter what they are. Everybody has fun with it. So I’m very open. We talk about it. I actually did many things that are very different in the mural. You see, for example, a drug deal. Why? Because it happens around that corner. Why? The drug dealers actually told me how to do it. Why does a guy look like a model? Because that’s what I witnessed. And I asked the guy, you look like a model, a white guy, Juan. And I say, you look like a model. Why not? Well, because I have a record. When I was in my teens, I could never get a job. I have a family. This is the only thing I know how to do. So you live there. It’s because of family. All that. We show the political parties on the store having a meeting. And of course, they’re giving donuts. The only way people will go there. So there’s a lot of commentary. So the mural was based on two things. The times they are a-changing. A Dylan song. And the lyrics are repeated through it. Times are a-changing. The name of the barber shop. And John F. Kennedy’s speech about reaching for the moon, which - he’s got this part of the speech, he says, you know, “We’re going to have to put away our differences. There’s going to be sacrifices, but it’s going to be up to us to do this.” So on the mural, and this is the message I wanted to present to the community. Everybody says, why doesn’t the government do this? Why doesn’t somebody do that? Because- And the first word of the Constitution, “We the people.” So that’s what I spray-painted We. And it says, Us. And it shows. Interested in a couple buildings. There’s a recurring theme. There’s a pot with a plant. There are two kids. A girl in her phone. She’s the loneliest person there with a cat. And there’s what could be the father. Prior divorce. Single father’s got a- He’s a former vet. You can tell by the way he’s dressed. He probably came from work. He’s drinking a beer. He’s watching TV. The plant there is dry and dead. But you go two buildings down, and there’s an old lady who’s seen it all. Been there. There. Probably Slovak from the previous who were there, actually looks just like my mother, who’s 86. And the plant is flowering. And I say, no matter where you are, it’s up to you. Because even if it’s just to water the plant, you can do something to do it. So it’s up to the community to roll their sleeves, begin to do things. Other things will be added. And that’s exactly. It was prophetic. That is what has happened in the community. So now they’re putting half a billion dollars in remodeling all the way from the West Side Market to Metro. All the development, all the investors, everybody who was going to come here, they were taken to the mural. That became the hub. And that is exactly what has happened. The last piece of the mural is this gallery, art gallery. It’s been gentrified. We’ve got an immigrant lady. You can tell by the outfit she’s probably from Jamaica. You got a police officer who is actually Orlando Bloom. I just did a little test to see what people saw it. Okay. And he’s teaching religion to many multicultural kids. What’s the religion of Cleveland? Football. Got a Browns football. And that is the spirit of the entire mural. There’s also a very heavy lady. You never see heavy lady in murals. She’s happy. You see elderly couples in there. You see people in wheelchairs, veterans. Just by looking at the hat, you can tell what war he was in, friends he lost, what regiment, etc. Everything. So it’s full of a lot of clues. I’m very specific in my detail. And the coloring is used to guide your eyes through it, and so is the grouping. And it does tell a story. And that’s why people enjoy my work. They like to look at it because, like I always say, when I do them, they probably will not understand. A lot of it is age-related. But as they old, they do so, they get older. And that was my experience with the mural. I did it and I walked away. It can fade away. That’s the nature of murals.
Matías Martínez Abeijón [00:18:02] I understand. How has your relationship with it evolved over the years? You have commented already a little bit about it. Can you expand a little bit? You mentioned that you did it, and you kind of, like, felt that it was done. Then, it had this amazing impact in the community. It was the event with the vandalism. It was the gentrification of the neighborhood. How have- Could you expand a little bit on how have your feelings about it changed through time?
John Rivera-Resto [00:18:33] I recognize the impact. I used to do a painting, and every time I do something, there’s an intention, there’s a reason to do it, and it’s not, oh, that’s a pretty picture. Oh, my God, I love this and that. So you normally- I go, I don’t listen to anybody. I had never had an art show or shown for reasons. And I just listen. If people get it, they got it. It’s successful. If they didn’t mention that, I failed. I wasn’t clear enough in synthesizing that message and putting it there. So the fact that this work and other work before that, there was a thinker’s mural done a decade before, they had almost the same reaction and a total different style of painting that was a Playhouse Square and a few others made me conscious that I’m very responsible for what I do and what I say. So I had to be very informed. I had to put myself in everybody’s mind, if I can, and see the mural from their perspective and see how I can bring understanding without preaching, without pointing fingers, without being that confrontational, but yet at the same time, not backing up from the realities of it. Again, I’m a history buff and I’m a realist and playwright. Details matter.
Matías Martínez Abeijón [00:20:01] Thank you. For those who might be new to your work, might see the mural, might see other things, what are some of your easily accessible works in the Cleveland area that you would think that would be a great place to begin to know more about your work through the years?
John Rivera-Resto [00:20:24] Like I said, murals fade. They only have a- You know, they have a short lifetime, really, especially in Cleveland because of the weather, which is why I used to paint more in Puerto Rico than here. For example. They can start with a mural before it fades. I give it five more years. Okay, that’s a good one. There used to be a place in Lakewood called Panorama Travel - it’s still there - in which there was a mural they can see. The one at Playhouse Square is not there anymore. They changed ownership. They remodeled. That, I enjoyed. There was Gordon Square Theater in Cleveland. Look up at the ceiling. You see the Three Stooges. No. Yeah. There’s the Three Stooges up there looking down. That was the abstract thought. The mural on the side was the main thing was never done. And best thing they can do is really go to the website and follow it. Because all the murals are listed there with an explanation of what happened, every painting and everything I’ve done in my life.
Matías Martínez Abeijón [00:21:23] And the website, it is muralmaster.org.
John Rivera-Resto [00:21:25] Muralmaster.org, that’s O-R-G. It’s an educational website in which I tell people the unvarnished truth. And a lot of artists write to me for advice. And I told them this is the way it is. And I try to answer the number one question I’m always asked when I lecture or when I go to some other school, et cetera, by art students that nobody teaches you in school. How do you make money doing art?
Matías Martínez Abeijón [00:21:55] Thank you. You have work in Puerto Rico. You just mentioned, among other things, that the weather is more forgiving with the murals. You have also worked in Indonesia and many other places. How have your experiences and projects outside of the Cleveland area interacted with your local work?
John Rivera-Resto [00:22:15] I’m not sure I understand the question.
Matías Martínez Abeijón [00:22:18] How has your work and your experiences in Puerto Rico and Indonesia, in the different places that you have worked, how does it interact, influence, have an impact on the work that you do here? That’s kind of like traveling back and forth between places.
John Rivera-Resto [00:22:35] I guess. I guess it’s something I never ponder on. Let’s say when I go to Indonesia, everybody knows me from my website. Okay. Actually, that’s how I get calls. I’m not really sure. I’m not really sure. I never gave this much thought. I’m having a little problem with the question, trying to arrive at a conclusion to it. So it might come back to me or another question might get me there.
Matías Martínez Abeijón [00:23:04] That is just fine. You mentioned that you are a history buff and the details matter to you. Can you expand a little bit on how you work for the purposes of documentation for your projects?
John Rivera-Resto [00:23:17] Yes. First of all, I start with the subject. If it’s a painting or if it’s a play, the process is identical. I look at the time period. I learn everything I can about the time period. I look at anything, newsreels, books, manuscripts, et cetera. I mean, when I was in secondary school, I was reading in three languages with a dictionary. Even though I can only speak Spanish. Latin, English and Italian. There was some French also. I sketched things. My imagination is like a sponge. I suck details. What was the height of the- How come the height of the curtain in this period, in 50 years the height of the curtain is here. Okay? I make associations. The fact that I can travel through a few languages and give me rude words, give me a little origin. But also, if I’m going to study the history of a time, it’s not just what they look like, it’s what they sounded like, what they read, what they lived, what they eat. So I’ve just been curious about that because in my imagination, I like to try and travel. And that’s the best way to do it. That’s why in my life, I never wanted to do anything but travel and go to places that I read in books.
Matías Martínez Abeijón [00:24:32] Thank you. You have had a sustained and productive relationship with the theater through the years. Can you tell us a little bit more about how your relationship with theater started?
John Rivera-Resto [00:24:44] I’m 14. I wrote one act called Los Villalobos, Youth Society in church. I grew up Pentecostal. I’ve been an atheist since 14, but I grew up Pentecostal. And I have decorated like 2,000 churches, which is the weird thing. And I wrote it, I enjoyed, produced it. By the age of 17, I did my biggest and last play in Puerto Rico, Como en los dias de Noé, as in the days of Noah. About 20 people in the cast wrote, directed, designed, did all that thing up and up. Was great. I enjoyed the experience. I was extremely shy. In my family, my father was the heart of the party. Goes to a place, he brightens a room. I was shy, bookish, but I drew a lot of attention. I’m the guy who painted giant murals. I’m the guy who did this, but I didn’t like to talk about it. And if a girl came to me and said, “Hi, John, how you doing?” I would stutter, think, oh, my God, I look like an idiot. I had to move out of town, so I figured Errol Flynn would never do that. I had to invent myself. So what I did was I took acting. I began to write little scripts. “Hi, babe, I think you’re looking great. I love the way your hair looks today.” Oh, that’s fantastic, you know. And that became John Rivera-Resto. There’s many John Riveras, which is where I always use my second last name. It’s like John Smith. But now I got John Rivera-Resto. So there’s only one. So I invented a persona anytime it came out. And that’s the persona. They arrived to Cleveland. So that’s how began in theater. Out of necessity, out of fun. I love Lope de Vega. Calderón de la Barca was my idol. Spanish theater. But I also read Shakespeare, all that I have done Shakespeare in Spanish, and English for that matter. And that self-expression, that becoming someone else, was fantastic. And painting. But being anonymous was fantastic. I didn’t want people to know who I was. I didn’t want my picture shown. And for other reasons. I never wanted a career. I just wanted to get paid so I can have money to go to where I needed to go when I’m broke. Okay, I need another job. What’s the biggest one? I’ll take it. I don’t care what it is. I’ll do it. And that’s the way I function.
Matías Martínez Abeijón [00:27:11] Thank you. You have done production design, playwriting, theater direction, adaptation, acting. Is there one of these roles that you cherish the most?
John Rivera-Resto [00:27:28] I’m a very good painter. I’m a better actor than I’m a painter. I’m a better writer than I’m an actor. Writing is hard. Painting is easy. Okay. That’s the way I see it. I never had a kind of a guiding light. It’s whatever catches my attention. I’m HD. So when something catches my attention, I’m gonna stick to it. I won’t sleep until I can dominate it. In other words, understand it, turn it back and forth, try it. I’m the guy who put his tongue on a wall outlet to see how it would feel. It still hurts. Okay, but that was me.
Matías Martínez Abeijón [00:28:17] Thank you. You have repeatedly worked with LatinUs Theater, who are a company pioneering, promoting theater in Spanish in Cleveland, in Ohio. How does the Spanish language, the Latin American cultures, the Latino culture in the U.S. relate to your work?
John Rivera-Resto [00:28:41] For a while, I was involved. I was a Washington intern. You know those guys who run Capitol Hill in the White House, and they’re like, usually 24 to 27, they really run the country. Somebody when I was at Cleveland State said, one of the teachers, you know, you can qualify. They also got a minorities program, et cetera. [00:28:59] You qualify both ways. You have good grades, all that. Well, you had to write this essay. I don’t really want to do it, but Case is sending somebody. Cleveland State needs to send somebody. So I wrote this BS essay that says America needed me, as a joke. Well, I’m the guy who got called, and when I get there, they’re all waiting for me: “We just wanted to see what you look like.” Okay, it was that kind of thing. But I got a good education in that respect, in government, et cetera. It helped with my propaganda work. The question was? Remind me.
Matías Martínez Abeijón [00:29:35] A little bit, how does the Spanish language, the Latin American cultures-
John Rivera-Resto [00:29:40] And one of the things that I think helped me great was that I have this duality with this Latin culture and with a non-Latin culture, okay, I kind of go both ways. When I came to Cleveland, I’m sitting in that plane, the Whisperliner from Eastern, flying in 1977, July, the year that Elvis died. And I’m thinking as I’m sitting on the plane next to my father, I can’t speak a word of English. I like girls. I cannot do theater. How am I going to communicate? I got to learn English. There’s no way. There’s two ways around it. In Puerto Rico, everybody knows four words: pencil, pen, door and pen. It’s part of our rhymery song. Everybody knows that, even though we’re taught English from first grade too. Useless. So I figured, what language do girls like? What accent? So I went through all the English accents, and I figured Southern, Texan? No, no. John Wayne? James Bond? They like James Bond. What’s that, British? I got myself a British tutor. So for a year I worked on my English and I was very well except until I realized here I sounded more British and kind of Spanish British. And no one here can understand British. So they said I got to Americanize it. And I figured that if I say, “How about those Browns,” you get a free beer. Okay? And that was kind of the beginning of it. I was a good mimic in that respect. I learned English fast. I realized how important language is because of the way you’re judged. And one of the first experiences about being Hispanic, I said I didn’t know what was what until I came to Cleveland. That’s foreign to me. Growing up in Puerto Rico, even though we’re all from mixed, that was never a subject. Yeah, we know what’s black, we know what’s white, but that’s not an issue. It’s irrelevant until they say, “Where are you from?” And I would just say, “Guess.” They mentioned a lot of places, more often they ended up in Italy or Europe or someplace. And I’d say, “No.” “But you have an accent.” Yeah, I do. Puerto Rican. I stopped being white. Now I was brown or I was something else and got me fired out of my first job, which was feeding paper to a paper machine. That’s it. Because the lady didn’t want any “spics” in her place. That was my experience. And I realized how this happens. And I also realized I get away with a lot of things because I don’t have like my brother’s accent or other people’s accents. Okay? And I always being an individual, never a group, okay? But in traveling around and meeting other people from the Hispanic communities and all these nationalities, you know, we have a lot in common, which is our culture, and speak to them. And then speaking to other people who come here. The town is Irish. Like my wife, she’s English, Irish and Welsh from Jersey. I got to understand a lot of these issues. Okay. And they stay with you. That is the thing. They stay with you. And to this day. So I always said, maybe I can do something about it. Okay. And that’s when the art took a little bit. And that’s what I tried to avoid it. Maybe that’s the word. I try not to bring attention to it unless I’m in the middle of the fray. And then I am very, very tough.
Matías Martínez Abeijón [00:33:20] Thank you. I learned on your website that you have had the ambition to become a filmmaker. Can you tell us a little bit about your interest in film?
John Rivera-Resto [00:33:33] Yes, I love films. I was working on Super 8 films, doing my editing the old fashioned way. You know, you got to tape it, do that kind of thing. I love the entire process because when you’re painting, you have a brush, et cetera. You design, but when you’re editing, you’re cutting a different film. I enjoyed everything. I learned everything I could about it. And again, my idol was Errol Flynn. Swashbuckling guy. Not that I would look like him, but he has that drive, that joie de vivre, and that’s what pulled me. And right now I’m stuck on the image of Errol Flynn. And then what inspired me in life, and that was- There was this picture of Errol Flynn going with this lovely girl in a gown going down those stairs. And I said to myself, that’s what I want to do with my life. I want to own that tux. By the age of 25, I owned three. And I have satisfied my fantasies, okay? But the reason I did it was because that duality between the Spanish, my Hispanic traditions, my Native American, we’ve got the most percentage of Native American, or African, for that matter, that we have. And then coming here to the United States and immersing myself away from the Latin community only in what we call a white environment, and then bringing it all back.
Matías Martínez Abeijón [00:35:07] Thank you. Can you tell us a little bit about your work with some key figures of baseball in Cleveland?
John Rivera-Resto [00:35:14] Figures of who?
Matías Martínez Abeijón [00:35:15] Baseball. Like Carlos Baerga, Sandy Alomar Jr., Mike Hargrove, Ómar Vizquel. It’s my understanding that you have painted them. However, you are not necessarily a baseball fan. Can you tell us a little [JRR: Not at all] about your relationship with baseball, with these figures, in your work as painter, decorator, how does it all come together?
John Rivera-Resto [00:35:39] Well, baseball is a religion in Puerto Rico, but we’re very odd. We don’t do American football or soccer. Now it’s catching up, but we’ve been very odd in that respect. So we’re a little different from both sides. It so happened that at the time, ’80s, early ’90s, half of the Cleveland Indians were Hispanic players. Okay? And these are young guys who all of a sudden are millionaires. But they were poor before, okay? So it so happens that again, through religion, because Carlos’s, for example, wife was the daughter of a minister. And through that association, I got associated with my uncle. All of a sudden, they got their first big house and their first million dollars, and they don’t know what to do with it. They got to decorate, some decorator wanted a humongous amount of money. They asked, why don’t you ask John? Because I did that. They introduced me. I went there and I said, okay, we’re going to do it. Six months later, I had done the fantasy of every woman in the world, which is spend $136,000 decorating the place with a small army of decorators, painters and Chinese craftsmen. So that was the thing. But besides that, you also taught him, this is the way you used the fork, this is the way you did this. So it became more of a culture guru and friend in that respect. And of course I spoke Spanish, I spoke English, I used to have his checkbook in my pocket and he used to drive his Supra. That’s how close we got. Just to get into that duality. And through them, I got two others and they got to know me and they realized there’s something different about John. He does a job, he walks off. He’s not asking us for more of this or that. And that was the thing. Same thing with artists. I thought they were very interesting creatures. I love their stories because, again, I paint them. But I’m more of a dramatist. It’s the writer in me really, that pushes that. And also, like I tell some students, I have a very unusual quality. I have an accent, which I can change. And I learned this because I talked to some very, very wealthy people. And I never have met a lazy rich person ever in my entire life. Maybe they don’t inherit money. Yes. No, not self-made men. They work hard. Seven days a week they’re working all the time. So much, they don’t- They really enjoy their money. By that I mean they buy expensive things, but they don’t take a trip to go to Florence and see the Uffizi Gallery or go to the Louvre or get some culture or go to a good restaurant or know what a great homemade, you know, pancake made from scratch is from that from the box. But they really are- Well, they call them in French- I have friends who call them in French, Americans are rich people, I mean, poor people with money. They mean culturally. So that’s where I come in. Because if you sponsor some gallery, it’s just going to be your wife. All these people does it and you’re there, you’re going to walk to the opening. Who do you think they’re going to ask? What do you think about this painting that you think somebody just puked on a wall? Why? You’re the successful person. You must know this. You’re like a celebrity, you know, the cure for cancer. Okay? And they’re like, they don’t know what to say. However, if I do their place, I have an accent and I sound sophisticated. They say, oh, who did this. Oh, that guy did it. Oh, he sounds sophisticated. I know. I pick him. So I’m more sophisticated. So that’s the association. Okay? But our world in that respect is a lot of our appearances and perceptions. And as an actor, I knew how to walk that. And as an artist, I could deliver. Okay? That’s the secret of making money.
Matías Martínez Abeijón [00:39:44] Very good. Thank you very much. Can you tell us a little bit about any projects that you are currently working on or collaborations, anything that you are currently working?
John Rivera-Resto [00:40:04] When I was about 1940, when I was doing that internship, I decided it’s time for me to start writing in English. And I wrote my first play. I was going to write a play titled what happened in 1510, about the biggest rock star of Spanish Conquistador, who was Juan Ponce de León. And the story that happened there about that Indian rebellion that, I mean, you could not write a better piece. Everything’s there said, I got to do this story. I was researching it for years and what came out was another story that I call it an excise of my previous life, my travels, Death of a Mercenary, people that I have met, et cetera. Deals with the Somoza regime, Central America and all that. And I figured, okay, I wrote my first play in English, but I’m not going to go to Cleveland and show it to friends, because they’re friends. I want people to tell me what they think. So I sent it to the International Playwrights Festival in London, sponsored by the London Times and Scarborough University, and it made 8th place out of 1200 entrances. The gentleman, Peter Thompson, who’s a very famous director [unintelligible] said, you should take this to Hollywood because it’s too big for the theater. I said, I didn’t make it. He actually did a handwritten letter and told me, I didn’t do this to be produced, okay? So at that point he put, I got the idea in my mind. You know what? I got plenty of stories for Hollywood, but why don’t I write my own? Because the fun is not to write a little piece. Somebody’s gonna pay you money and the tax man takes all of it. I’d rather make my own story because creating it is what I want. So I wanted to do an independent film. I had it all planned. I managed to gather $100,000 to do it here in Cleveland. It was titled Bad Blood, about Cesare Borgia. I even went to Rome to do a little research. It’s a modern gothic thriller, okay. And I got cancer. So that sidetracked me for five years. And then I got into murals and doing other things. I got married. But then when I turned 60, it came back to me. I said, I want to do this. That’s when I told my wife, you know, without wanting, I have achieved the American dream. I live in a nice home in a fancy street in Lakewood, Lake Avenue, in front of the park. I got a trophy wife who drives a trophy car and has three trophy dogs. But I’m not happy. Say, when were you happy? I was happy in my twenties, when I was starving, sleeping in my car in the middle of winter, trying to learn English and doing theater. So get back to it. That’s why I got back to the. When it was being created, the Latino theater. And I said, all I want is just to do a walking part. I’m the butler. Here’s your coffee, man. I don’t think I can memorize things. And I ended up doing Death and the Maiden, Dr. Miranda, who’s got a Bible thick of dialogue. And I truly enjoyed it. And I said, okay, I’m going to do something, but I’m going to do my own work. So that’s when I wrote Tropical Macbeth. It’s not a literal translation of Macbeth. It’s something that tried to explain why Hispanics have this admiration of dictators. We have over 200 dictators since independence from Spanish countries. And why do the United States keep backing them? That’s the main answer. I had immersed myself in the early 20th century during my production of The House of Bernarda Alba and Tiempo Muerto, another play. And I figured, well, this is what I want to do, the film. So right now I produce part one. I’m trying to finagle around finances to film it in a closed set the way the BBC does Shakespeare plays, which I would like to do next year, if all the cards are right.
Matías Martínez Abeijón [00:43:59] Thank you. You have already touched a little bit about the need to make money. Can you expand a little bit? Like, what advice would you give to people who are starting in the world of the arts, the world of theater? About. Like, what advice would you have for them, particularly expanding maybe on that idea of the importance of making money?
John Rivera-Resto [00:44:25] If you’re an actor, don’t act. Don’t act at being an art, an actor. Many people want to be something, and they pretend to be it because they have this fantasy of what it is. If they’re a painter, they pretend to be a painter. Painting is the only thing where you can put a shingle that says painter. If you don’t do a thing. You don’t have to paint, you don’t have to do poetry, you don’t have to write. You don’t do absolutely anything. Just say, I’m an artist. And you can sue people for not giving you a grant for being an artist, even if you don’t do your thing. It’s the only place you cannot do that, being a doctor or a professor or anything else. So if you’re going to be an artist, first you need to be really good at what you do. This is not to do with inspiration, because if you get a cent, you’re already a commercial artist, you’re being paid for your work. And an artist needs an audience and he’s a patron. So before your butt gets up that chair talking with that client, you better know exactly what you’re gonna do with your work. That is experience, that is training, and that is discipline. Okay? Whatever you do to practice is not a masterpiece. It’s practice piece. It’s garbage. Throw it out. Okay? You have to be good. You got to accept that you have to make changes and realize that just because you desire to be something doesn’t mean you will be. Being an artist, and I know some fantastic people who be fantastic artists but they don’t practice art, it’s a way of seeing life. It’s a way of expressing themselves. It’s this desire to do it, but have also the mechanical capability because your brain can work it out. When I paint, all I see is numbers, for example, my mind works that way. I see values. Bingo. Got it. Okay. Same thing with acting. You have to be very, very good at what you do. Be able to improve at it and create opportunities where you will shine so people can notice. We call it, you know, putting that searchlight. It’s bright, but it’s short-lived. And those are the hooks. When you’re down, when you’re broke, you need to learn, practice, improve on yourself. So when you get that opportunity, you’re ready for it. That’s the story of my life.
Matías Martínez Abeijón [00:46:55] Thank you. Is there anything else that you want to add before we wrap up the interview? Any thoughts that you think is important to people to know about you or your work?
John Rivera-Resto [00:47:08] Not sure. My life really has gone through different stages. The least thing I do is paint. But that’s the thing I’m most known for. Someone has said, you know, I go to places. Everybody asks about you. You’ve never shown a painting and it’s kind of a sad truth because it tends to outshine some of their work. And I said, well, the difference is this. If you’re a gallery painter, you paint 50 paintings. Show them in a place, several hundred people will see it. And that’s pretty much it. I do a mural. Millions. You know, some people see it every day. So that’s the other thing. So you need to know who you are before you get into this world. What I mean by that is you have to be, know about your personality. You have to be sure what you do. You have to realize there’s others that are better than you. You have to keep your ego in check. And you have to realize that everybody is kind of in your same position. Everybody wants to do best. Okay? More power to them. I’m a very live and let live. I give free advice. I know life is short. It’s not gonna be long enough for me to learn everything I want to learn. And that is my only sorrow. Okay? But quite frankly, being an artist, you’re a citizen of the world. There’s no barriers, really. And that’s the way I was seeing it.
Matías Martínez Abeijón [00:48:30] Thank you. Mark, is there something that you’d like to add or to ask?
Mark Souther [00:48:35] I want to maybe ask just maybe two questions. One, you mentioned that you went to Puerto Rico when you were five years old, and then you came back, I think, in 1977?
John Rivera-Resto [00:48:46] Yeah, I was 19 or 20.
Mark Souther [00:48:50] Tell me about your impressions of Cleveland when you came back. What was it like?
John Rivera-Resto [00:48:55] Yes. The first one is this. We see snow on TV. We say Jimmy Stewart, and we think snow is 90 degrees and you’re playing with snow. And then we get here and snow is cold. As odd as that may seem, that was the biggest shock. Snow is cold. Okay? I wasn’t prepared for that one. Okay? The other one, again, is this color divide. I mean, that was very shocking when I came here. And the fact that people didn’t wash their hands after they used the bathroom. Okay? In Puerto Rico, we shake hands a lot. Okay? Here, it’s like, my God. So that was the main thing I have to say.
Mark Souther [00:49:39] I have to say I don’t think I’ve ever heard that said about Cleveland, impressions of Cleveland, but, you came in ’77. Were you here for the blizzard then?
John Rivera-Resto [00:49:52] Yes. Yes. God, I was stuck in the freaking blizzard. And then when I went for my master’s in Vermont, Montpelier, I’m driving through Vermont. There’s walls of ice reminding me of the same thing. And I’m thinking, you know what? I could be near the beach and palm trees. I actually grew up in front of the tropical rainforest. So this is- I mean, it couldn’t be different. But I like the change of weather. I like the change of scenery. Okay? If you don’t have to get up to go to work in the morning and dust your car, then life is good.
Mark Souther [00:50:27] One other unrelated question, you mentioned that the- I’ll paraphrase you and hope I get it more or less right. Early in the interview, you mentioned that the fun in painting for you is the planning.
John Rivera-Resto [00:50:38] Yes.
Mark Souther [00:50:39] But the actual execution of it is something you want to get done as quickly as possible. Maybe if you could expand a little bit on that, why you think that is. And also you mentioned that you train youth to do the paintings, that you can train anyone and, in a few months’ time, they can be excellent at it. I guess I’m interested in how you do that. When it’s something that you don’t apparently enjoy doing, is part of the process of training them, getting them to enjoy or see it as a process to get through and get done? I’m just trying to understand that a little bit better.
John Rivera-Resto [00:51:21] I have known probably about 50 teenagers in my life that I worked with. I mean, some of the best commissioners in Cleveland, they all work on them, which is great because they go to college, et cetera. I worked on that. Hey, I did this. They want to be artists. They see it as artists. They enjoy the role. Now, when you paint a mural here, so different, time stands still. They’re big. You’re not with little paint brushes. You’re wear rollers and big brushes. And it’s very methodical. You don’t paint a mural once you paint it 20 times, one layer, second layer, third layer. It’s like a coloring book in which you keep adding details. And some are good at doing faces, others are good at doing this. Others are good at just painting flags. Okay, so everybody has their own skill, which you tend to guide. They enjoy that because it’s a group activity. You’re not alone. Okay, so in the first half of the mural, all I’m doing is teaching, guiding, doing this, all the practical things that you have to learn, all the tips of how not to fall off scaffolding and things like that. And then the second half, I take over with only a few of them because it’s really my painting to the end of detailing. And that’s how I work with them. I like to take things apart and see how they work. That’s how I learned how to paint. I used to, with a magnifying glass, look at pictures of - I’m 12 years old - of the Sistine Chapel, figuring out how did he do it and read everything I could about it. So when they asked me to make a painting, I could recall how the others did it and I tried to replicate it. First thing I did was open a can of paint and threw up. I couldn’t stand the smell of paint. So that’s how I do it. Yeah. But I can relate to people as opposed to in school in which you have to have inspired and they already tell you who the geniuses are without telling you why they’re geniuses. Because genius, kid genius. How do you know? Tell me why. For example. Okay? I like to break it apart in simple ways. So when I’m telling people how to do it, you can kind of tell by experience and talking through them and guiding them what they do. The same thing with theater. Okay? I prefer a blank slate. Last production, three-fourths were first-time actors, including my wife. It’s the only way I could see her. Okay? I guess teaching is what I do best. I enjoy that. Okay, any questions?
Matías Martínez Abeijón [00:54:00] Thank you very much. Once again, thank you very much for meeting with us. The time is now 3:47 P.M. and we are going to stop the recorder, completing this interview with John. Once again, we really appreciate your time with us today here.
John Rivera-Resto [00:54:16] This was fun. Thank you.
Mark Souther [00:54:18] Thank you so much.
Matías Martínez Abeijón [00:54:20] ¡Muchísimas gracias!
John Rivera-Resto [00:54:23] It’s funny, you never know what people are going to ask you.
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