Abstract

Sean Veney is a volunteer engineer for the Cuyahoga Valley Scenic Railroad and physics professor from Kent State University. He discusses his train hobby, volunteer work and reflections on race and representation.

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Interviewee

Veney, Sean (interviewee)

Interviewer

Ross, Rainah (interviewer); Schnack, Erich (participant)

Project

Cuyahoga Valley National Park

Date

7-19-2021

Document Type

Oral History

Duration

95 minutes

Transcript

Rainah Ross [00:00:01] Hello. My name is Rainah Ross. Today is Monday, July 19, 2021. It is 2pm and today we are interviewing Sean Veney as a part of the Cuyahoga Valley National Park’s African American Perspectives Oral History Project. We are at Stone Cottage. So I’m going to ask you a few questions and then I’ll give you a brief overview of what the section of questions will be about. 

Sean Veney [00:00:23] Okay. 

Rainah Ross [00:00:24] So we’re going to start with some background. What is your full name and can you spell it?

Sean Veney [00:00:28] Sure. My full name is Sean Veney. S, E, A, N, V as in Victor E, N, E, Y.

Rainah Ross [00:00:35] What year were you born?

Sean Veney [00:00:36] I was born in 1972.

Rainah Ross [00:00:39] Where did you grow up?

Sean Veney [00:00:40] In Alexandria, Virginia.

Rainah Ross [00:00:43] Tell us a little bit about your family.

Sean Veney [00:00:46] So I have a younger sister. She currently lives in Little Rock, Arkansas with her husband and three kids and my parents live in Alexandria, Virginia, still. 

Rainah Ross [00:01:01] How do you identify yourself culturally? 

Sean Veney [00:01:04] As an African American.

Rainah Ross [00:01:07] What was your childhood like?

Sean Veney [00:01:10] Very adventurous, I would say. Growing up I spent a lot of time doing outdoor activities, was always serious about schoolwork, so that was always a priority as well. But I grew up in the outdoors. I’m an Eagle Scout, so a lot of my time was spent camping and just exploring areas around Alexanderia, where I grew up and just being outside doing outdoor things.

Rainah Ross [00:01:40] Tell us about your education. What subjects did you study in school? What universities did you attend?

Sean Veney [00:01:45] So I’ve always loved science. I’ve always loved science and known I’ve loved science for a very, very long time. So graduated from what was T.C. Williams High School in Alexandria, Virginia. If you ever saw the movie remember the Titans, it was actually about the integration of that high school. I wasn’t there during that time, but there was a movie made about that. And I went to school at University of Virginia for biology. I was a Bachelor of arts major in biology, graduated in ’94 with my undergraduate degree and stayed on for another six years to get my doctorate degree in biology and also at UVA. And while I was there I was taking classes doing research, but all in science. I stayed a biology major from the first day I started college. After I left UVA, I then spent four years in East Lansing, Michigan, where I did a postdoc work at Michigan State University. And in 2004 I applied for a position and received the position at Kent State University, where I’ve been ever since.

Rainah Ross [00:02:44] What led you to your career in academia?

Sean Veney [00:02:48] So with science there’s multiple sort of directions you can go. The most direct pathway for a lot of individuals who major in science is to end up doing research and or teaching. So that was sort of a natural following for me. As a graduate student, I did have the opportunity to teach. So I was an undergraduate assistant in one of the, in one of the labs, and I felt like I made a connection with the students. The interaction was really fun. It was really great. And of course, I love the science. So it seemed like a really natural fit for me to pursue academia as a career, as opposed to an alternative career pathway, which may have been something like industry or something to that effect.

Rainah Ross [00:03:30] Where do you work now and what do you do?

Sean Veney [00:03:32] So currently I am employed by Kent State University and I am professor of biology.

Rainah Ross [00:03:39] Do you have any memorable moments in teaching?

Sean Veney [00:03:42] Memorable moments? Ones that I can talk about, huh? I think the most memorable moments for me are when you have students who maybe start your course or start working with you, and they really have really. They’re not at the level they need to be or want to be, but you work with those students, you see the persistence, you see how much they. How much effort they’re putting into learning things, and at the end you see that payoff. So there was one particular student I remember from many, many years ago who was taking not my class for the second time, but was taking the class for a second time. And he had taken it from a previous individual, didn’t get the grade that he wanted to. Second time around, he took it with me. And his approach was a little bit different to the point where in addition to normal lectures, he and I would meet regularly just to go over the material, go over the material, go over the material. And you could see the transformation. You can see the growth, you can see the learning curve just go up. And at the end, he aced the course. And for me, that was really, really a powerful moment because it just showed how when students put hard work into stuff and when you can give your time to students, it can pay off. Certainly pay off.

Rainah Ross [00:05:04] Okay, now we’re going to move on to your interest in trains. Trains can have a unique place in the imagination of youth. Did you have relationship with trains from an early age?

Sean Veney [00:05:16] Oh, yes, yes, yes, yes. I got my first train set when I was around 7 or 8 years old. For whatever reason that sticks out of my mind. The reason why I say that sticks out of my mind is because I still have those same trains today. When I was eight years old, I had a layout of my house and having trains around, being around trains, being interested in trains has always been a part of my life. I don’t know exactly what it is that draws me to them. I think it’s a combination of the sounds, the smells, just the action around them. But for me, it’s exciting and both relaxing to be around trains. So I’ve always, always had an interest in trains from a young age to my current age, present age.

Rainah Ross [00:06:06] Did someone special inspire your love for trains?

Sean Veney [00:06:11] So when you hear about a lot of train buffs, you often hear stories of individuals who had parents or grandparents that worked for a railroad. My parents did not work for a railroad. They worked for the federal government, but neither worked for the railroad. And I would think, or I would say that my interest in trains again started at a very early age. And I hear stories my parents telling me how they would take me down to the local train yard and watch the trains. And I think that’s what probably got my interest going. I so where I grew up doesn’t exist anymore. But in the area where I grew up, there was a very large train yard called Potomac Yard. It doesn’t exist anymore. But this is where they would reclassify trains. They would switch them around and do all kinds of things with the locomotives in the rolling stock. So from a good vantage point, you can watch the entire operation. And I just have very fond memories of just being there when I was younger, just watching different movement of the cars and hearing the clanging and the banging and the squeals of the flanges against a rail. And for whatever reason, I don’t know, I think that just kind of stuck with me. I just like that action. And so I would say just having my parents taking me to places like that really had a profound impact on my interest in trains today. It’s one of these things that just kind of stuck.

Rainah Ross [00:07:34] Did your love for trains grow or change as you grew older?

Sean Veney [00:07:38] It definitely grew from a model railroader. I went through different scales of trains. Started off with O gauge and then transitioned now into HO. Obviously, when I was in college and working on my doctor, I didn’t have a lot of time for training, so it kind of waned at that point. But my interest in modeling trains and what I wanted to model and how much time that I could spend with them has definitely changed over the years. It’s kind of gone up and down. I always try to make time for trains, not only in the park, but also my own layout. But of course, as I’ve gone through my career, it’s changed over time.

Rainah Ross [00:08:17] You mentioned that you really, like, love the sound of trains. What would you say you love the best about trains, overall?

Sean Veney [00:08:23] Well, it really depends on what type of trains we’re talking about. So if we’re talking steam versus diesel, that’s obviously two different conversations there. But if I were to focus specifically on diesel locomotives, I think for me, maybe I’m a little biased being an engineer because I can actually be in a locomotive as opposed to watching one off to the side. I like the power of the locomotive. Just, it’s- it’s like being in- You know, how you have your car and you know what your car sounds like, you know what your car feels like, you know, when your car is working properly or not working properly. Locomotives are the exact same way. And there’s something very exciting. For me, the best- For me, the best part about it is starting these locomotives up. They have the most unique sounds associated with starting the engine. Like, you can identify locomotives based on the sound of them. And for me, that’s probably the most exciting part about just the feel and the sounds of them.

Rainah Ross [00:09:28] Do you have any favorite trains from fiction, movies or books?

Sean Veney [00:09:33] You know, surprisingly, I don’t or haven’t watched a lot of. Trying to think historically, have I watched a lot of train movies. I. I do like some of the classics. Like the Orient Express is really good. I just ironically watched the other day, an old Gene Wilder, Richard Pryor, Silver Streak movie. That one brought back some memories from the late ’70s, and those are some of my favorites. I mean, they’re not exactly culturally correct anymore in some parts of it, but I just love the train scenes. And actually, I just watched that movie the other night, and there’s one particular scene that reminds me, for people who really don’t know, one of our crossings is Riverview. And so in the movie, there’s a scene where their train is kind of going across a crossing and it’s at a diagonal. And every time I see that, I just think about the Riverview crossing. So it’s just. For whatever reason, I just love that scene. I just play it over and over and over again. I’m like, that looks like the CBSR as we go across Riverview. So it’s a sight that I don’t get to see from my perspective. But if you’re, you know, in the car, you would see that. But I just love that scene. I don’t know why I’m so attracted to that scene. But so would be some of the two favorites. I would have the Orient Express, Silver Streak. And then I think I grew up, you know, reading books about the Little Engine that could that type of thing. So those are some of my favorites, I would think. I would say.

Rainah Ross [00:11:02] Have you ever collected or built model trains?

Sean Veney [00:11:04] Yes, yes. So I started off with an O gauge layout. It was a basement layout, not huge, I would say, you know, a couple four by eight plywood pieces put together. And I pretty much ran that up until the time that I left for college. And unfortunately after I went off to college, the layout got broken down and everything kind of sat idle for a number of years. And most recently in my basement now I have an HO scale layout that’s built into three, some good-sized modules. And so I spend a pretty good amount of time working on the scenery, the details, everything associated with making it real realistic.

Rainah Ross [00:11:48] How much time would you say that you spend on each model?

Sean Veney [00:11:51] Probably too much. Overall, I try to put in it’s not a set amount of time. One of the weird things about model railroading is there are periods where I think you’re pretty cold and nothing happens like now because it’s nice outside. So I prefer to be outside and do things outside. When I’m stuck inside in the winter months, I think I find more time working with the railroad, working with the model railroad. And it’s interesting in that you get very easily caught up in what you’re doing. So it’s not unusual for me to start working on the layout early afternoon, late afternoon, and next thing I look at my watch, it’s two or three in the morning and I haven’t even realized where time has gone. I’ve been so busy, focused and working on things. But you’ve put that much time into it. So it can easily range from an hour of just running things around and making sure things are okay to several hours. If you’re really into the details and specifics of fixing this and updating that and adding this, it can be several hours easily. Easily.

Rainah Ross [00:12:55] What is your favorite train of all time? 

Sean Veney [00:13:02] Wow. My favorite train of all time. I would have to say the Big Boy. The Union Pacific Big Boy would be my favorite. I’ve never got an opportunity to actually see it. I have heard that there are some excursions scheduled for it this year and I think I’m gonna make it a point to try to go see it if I can.

Rainah Ross [00:13:22] Is this like a busy train that people like book all the time?

Sean Veney [00:13:27] No, no, this is. This is an engine that’s not really used for regular excursion. They just bring it out occasionally like the 765. But it’s one of these things where everybody comes out and sees it. When it’s- when it’s- when it’s available and it’s running. If you’re talking about sort of trains that are. That are around and constantly kind of doing scheduled runs, only in the United States we have the Amtrak. But out in Europe, I’ve been on several trains that I thought have been really, really impressive. None that are specific by name, but mostly good because of where they go. There’s a lot of great scenery to see.

Rainah Ross [00:14:03] Do you have a favorite CVSR locomotive?

Sean Veney [00:14:07] Every engineer does, and the answer is yes. So my favorite is the 365. Sorry, sorry. 1822. 1822.

Rainah Ross [00:14:14] And why is that?

Sean Veney [00:14:16] 1822 is my favorite locomotive because it is the most forgiving locomotive to run. It was the first locomotive that I trained on. It was the first one that I ever ran. So for that reason, it’s special to me. But in terms of, again, every locomotive has its own unique personality, and there are certain locomotives that are very touchy and others are very forgiving about certain things, and the 1822 is the most forgiving and easy locomotive to run. It’s just- It’s just a- it’s just a smooth running locomotive in every capacity. Every capacity. So it is my favorite by far.

Rainah Ross [00:14:50] Do you have a favorite train car?

Sean Veney [00:14:53] Favorite train car. Hmm. Up until then, we got the Zephyr cars, which are quite amazing. My favorite and had to be the St. Lucie, which we’ve run for many, many years. And I like that car because it has sort of a more intimate setting at the rear, which you don’t get from the coach cars. Coach cars are just standard seats. But there’s something special just about how the Lucies laid out its arrangement. I wish we operated more as an open end car. It’s designed to be an open end car where you can actually see out the back. We don’t run it that way here in the Valley. But just the car itself, I think is really unique. And given its history, where it’s come from and how many miles it’s seen and where it’s been, it’s probably my favorite passenger car that we have.

Rainah Ross [00:15:49] Does anyone else in your family have a special interest in trains?

Sean Veney [00:15:53] I am the oddball out, so the answer is no. No one else in my family shares my love of trains the way I do. But it’s interesting in that everybody knows about my interest in trains, and it’s no secret that I love trains. And when it comes to gifts, when it comes time to finding the right gift for Sean, people know what to do they get something related to trains. It’s pretty easy to shop for in that capacity.

Rainah Ross [00:16:21] Is there a particular aspect of train history that intrigues you?

Sean Veney [00:16:26] So train history is really broad. I think the one aspect that most recently kind of just got me thinking about things was a few years back, I had the opportunity to go out to Utah and visit Promontory Point, the transcontinental railroad. It was kind of met from- from the- from the west and from the east, and it kind of got me thinking about the historical context of where I was and all that it took to get the two railroad lines to kind of meet at that particular location. And to me, that was really amazing because that really set the stage for the railroad network that we have today. So that was really kind of impressive to kind of reflect on that and be a D. Well, not exact location, but be a D location where that actually happened. So historically, that was really cool. That was really cool.

Rainah Ross [00:17:17] Are there any connections between your personal interests and trains in your professional life.

Sean Veney [00:17:26] Other than the fact that various colleagues have actually ridden a train? When I’ve actually been engineer, there’s not a lot that I bridge running trains with biology. I do tell stories about things that happen on a train, but in terms of my actual professional career of teaching biology, specifically neuroscience, not a lot of interaction there. Not a lot of cross talk.

Rainah Ross [00:17:51] Do you have any other hobbies or favorite recreational activities?

Sean Veney [00:17:56] So working on the railroad and volunteering for the CVSR is probably the number one thing that I do for hobbies. Extremely relaxing, extremely rewarding, extremely fulfilling. You meet some great people, both in the volunteers and the passengers that ride the train. But in general, again, I’m an outdoors person. Some other hobbies include doing outdoor stuff in the wintertime. I like to ski, so I’m a snow skier. So you’ll often find me out here, Brandywine or Boston Mills or other places if I can find the time to go. I bike a lot in the park. I do a lot of hiking in the park. So just being outdoors as much as possible are additional hobbies. If I can’t be on the train.

Rainah Ross [00:18:41] Okay, we’re gonna move on to some more questions about volunteering.

Sean Veney [00:18:44] Okay.

Rainah Ross [00:18:45] How did you come to be a volunteer for Cuyahoga Valley Scenic Railroad?

Sean Veney [00:18:50] So this was a pretty interesting story, and it happened by chance. So I had just moved to Ohio in 2004, and shortly thereafter, I had some friends who were visiting from out of town. In fact, they were visiting from out of the country. They were from London. And so I was racking my brain trying to come up with some ideas of how to keep them entertained for a couple days. And I had no idea the railroad even existed at this point. And I suppose I had done a Google search or somehow or another CVSR came up online and I thought to myself, it’s really close. I’m curious. I love trains. And so let’s go check out this ride. And so bought tickets from Akron to then Canton when the train was actually running to Canton at that time. And while we were on the train, there was a poster in one of the metro coaches we were riding in that said, come volunteer to work for CVSR. So I thought to myself, you know, I’m already busy, so what’s something else in my day? And I called the number and I spoke to then Peggy Wood, who was the volunteer coordinator, and went to my first volunteer meeting shortly thereafter. And that’s literally how I got involved with the railroad. Just from a flyer that I saw inside one of the coaches that I took a ride in as a passenger.

Rainah Ross [00:20:07] And what year did you start volunteering? Was it that same year?

Sean Veney [00:20:10] Yeah. 2004. Yep. No, wait, wait. I back up, back up. No, I started volunteering 2008. Yeah. So I took the train ride, got interested, and then it was 2008 when I officially became a volunteer. So I’ve been with the railroad, what, 13 years, is that right? A little bit more. Do math here, real quick. Okay, that’s about right. Yeah.

Rainah Ross [00:20:37] Describe your various volunteer positions over the years.

Sean Veney [00:20:40] Yeah, so I started off, as most individuals do, with what they call car attendant/trainman, and the main position or the main duties of a trainman, to essentially assist the passengers. So you take the tickets, you interact with the passengers, you answer questions, just basically be a good ambassador for the park and for the railroad. And I did that position for several years. Shortly thereafter or soon thereafter, I then started training to become a brakeman. And a brakeman’s job is essentially to be an extra set of eyes to be the engineer while you’re in a locomotive, but you also assist on the ground if there’s any movements of train cars. We call them cuts and ties where you have to uncouple and decouple and uncouple cars. It’s the brakeman who primarily works with the engineer to do that. So I spent a few years doing that. And almost while I was doing brakeman training and working as a brakeman, I also was training to be a conductor. And of course, the conductor is for all intents purposes, the individual who’s in charge of the train. So I’m in charge of the passengers. The conductor tells the locomotive engineer what to do. It’s literally his or her train as a conductor. So I spent a couple years as a conductor and then I got an opportunity to join an engineer training class, which is kind of a funny story how that happened. And it happened when we had day out with Thomas one year, which we used to hold down here at Boston Mills. And at the time, on this particular day rather, I was working with Will Carney, who was our director of operations. I was the brakeman, he was the engineer. And we had a few moments in between runs. So we decided to take a walk down to the Boston store to get some ice cream. So we walked down to the store and just having casual chit chat conversations. And as we were walking back to the train, I just sort of nonchalantly said, you know, Will, a lot of your current engineers that we have here are getting up in age and various ones of them are having various health issues and health problems that you have to deal with. Have you all ever thought about working with or promoting some younger engineers, Someone who might be around for a while? Again, I wasn’t specifically naming myself, but I was alluding to the fact that I would be interested. And Will kind of nodded his head and said a few things about, yeah, we’ve been kind of thinking about having it on the engine year class and I think you would be a good candidate. And that was really the end of the conversation. So I didn’t think much more of it. So now we fast forward. So Thomas is typically we held in May. So now fast forward to the end of the year and we’re either getting started with polar or it’s at the end of our polar season. I get this random phone call from the railroad. It just comes up as CVSR. I’m thinking to myself, did I forget to show up for a run? I mean, why is the railroad calling me? I had no idea. So it was Will Carney. He calls me and he says, just wanted to check in with you. And he goes, we’re thinking about starting an engineer class in the spring. Would you be interested? So after I kind of put the phone down and started doing cartwheels, because that’s exactly what I wanted to do, I enthusiastically said, yes, I’d be interested. And yeah, so started engineer training. And that’s primarily what I’ve been doing ever since. And that was, I would say, close to seven, seven years ago now. So it’s been a while. So I’ve done a little bit of everything at the railroad.

Rainah Ross [00:24:06] What kind of training was required for you to advance as a volunteer?

Sean Veney [00:24:11] So the different positions all require a different amount of training. As a trainman, you primarily work with. Well, let me back up a little bit. When you first join the railroad, you are a trainman in training. That’s the car attendant. So your primary training comes from more experienced trainmen just shadowing them. So you shadow a more experienced person and once you have 50 hours under your belt and you feel comfortable, then you are able to serve as a trainman solo by yourself. And so they teach us specific things about how to open the traps, which are the doors on the cars, safety measures associated with having passengers. We go through trainings associated with, you know, if there’s passengers with wheelchairs, how to load them, strap them down, if there’s any emergencies in your car, what do you do, who do you contact, that type of thing. And all of this again comes from shadowing more experienced people. In more recent years, no. However, they have started doing continuing education where they start doing this more formally, which is fantastic. But that’s the main training associated with being a trained man. When it comes to being a brakeman and a conductor now you have to go through more specific and formal training. So brakeman again, a lot of it is shadowing and working with more experienced people. But now because you’re working with very heavy and dangerous equipment, there are special classes that you have to take specifically on safety, about how to be safe around the locomotive, how to be safe around the coaches, all that type of thing. And assuming you pass all those checks, then of course you, you’re qualified to be safe brakeman in terms of being a conductor as well as engineer. The different classes of qualification conductor, you have to pass an annual rules test. We have a rules book that we’ve got to know forward and backwards. And in addition there are physicals we have to take as conductors. You have to pass those either annually or every couple years to be a qualified conductor. But the most qualifications come from being an engineer. So in order for me to be an engineer, I had to do about 150 hours of just training that is just running locomotive training. There are written tests that we have to take. There’s the annual rules test that we take along with the conductors, but we also have sort of a bigger exam that we take every three years. We also have to take vision and vision and hearing test us annually. And then we get periodic checkrides where the we basically, we get a sort of a spot check on how we’re doing with running locomotive. So the more advanced your qualifications, leading from training all the way up to locomotive engineer, the more training that you have to do. And it is something that we can we keep up to date on annually at a minimum. At a minimum.

Rainah Ross [00:27:07] What would you say was the hardest thing to learn?

Sean Veney [00:27:12] None of it was really hard because for me it was all fun. I think for me, the hardest part though, if I had to put my finger on one thing that I probably had to study for the most and take the most time to understand, were the parts and details of a locomotive. Just being able to go like you would open the hood of your car and be able to identify this is this, this is this, this is that we have to do something very similar for the locomotive, but just imagine that on a larger scale. So you have to open the doors and be able to identify where certain things are, because in part, you need to be able to diagnose if something happens and you need to look for things to make sure they’re working properly. You need to know what to check, you need to know the right gauges to be looking at. So for me, just learning the layout of a locomotive would say was the most difficult part, because again, I’d never been experienced to it before. I know cars, you know, you, you can, you can identify the engine, you can identify the steam, you know, here’s the water pump, but you can’t. Those same things either don’t exist in locomotive or look completely different. So learning where everything is was the most challenging part.

Rainah Ross [00:28:20] Becoming a trained engineer is no overnight task. Is there anything else you can tell us about how you acquired the knowledge and skills?

Sean Veney [00:28:27] Again, a lot of it was just due to coming out and practicing over and over again. Running a locomotive is one of these things where you can’t just tell somebody how to do it right. Just like driving a car, you can’t just tell somebody what to do. They actually have to get behind the wheel and feel and understand what it’s like to be in traffic and to do, to manipulate, maneuver your car through different circumstances. The same thing is true for locomotive engineers in terms of, for me, the more practice you get, the better you are at it. And so when I was training to be a locomotive engineer, it was a little bit of a juggling act because in part I had to still maintain my job at Kent State and do very well with that, but also put the hours in I needed to qualify to be a locomotive engineer. Again, you needed those 150, at least stick time, which we call stick time or throttle time before you even eligible to get your license. And so being able to fit all that in at the same time, work a full time job just required me to really just kind of put my nose to the grindstone and say, I’m going to be dedicated to putting all these extra hours in just so I can build up the time that I need. And for me, what that meant was, and fortunately, when I was training, we were running in Canton during this time. So I was able to actually get most of my hours by running down in Canton. And so it was not uncommon for me to run several times a week down in Canton. I would do my time at Kent State and then I would drive down to Canton, do the afternoon shift, sometimes go back to work after that, or come back the next day and do the exact same thing all over again. So if you put the time in, I think that’s the big factor that was putting the time in to acquire the skills that you really needed.

Rainah Ross [00:30:13] What did you enjoy most about each volunteer position at the scenic railroad?

Sean Veney [00:30:18] Each position is very different. I think if you are a people person or you love the park, then being a trainman is ideal because you get to interact with people. We get passengers literally from all over the world. And so it’s amazing to hear why people come to Ohio and why people come choose our railroad to stop and check out. So interacting with individuals, just learning about people from all over the world and why they’re here is a big part and the most fun part about being a trainman. Being a brakeman is fun because now you’re promoted to being able to ride in a locomotive. And the experience of riding in the locomotive is just so much different than what passenger see in the coach cards. I remember this was probably right before, side story, but I remember right before I started officially training, I’d been accepted into the training program, but I hadn’t actually started training yet. I was invited, or maybe I invited myself down to actually take a formal ride in locomotive. It was the first time I’d actually done it. So I rode from Pennsylvania, then slid down to Akron and back. And the first time I got to see what the park looks like from outside the front of a locomotive as compared to the sides of a car. Way different. Way, way different. So I would say as a brakeman, that’s the most exciting part was being able to ride in the locomotive and get a completely different view and a completely different perspective of the park. That’s part one. But I also found the operational part of being a brakeman to be fun too. That is making the switches in the yard, you know, cutting and tying. I just found that to be as fun as well. Similarly, being a conductor, you have to be a people person. You also have to be sort of a leader, right, because you are in charge of the train. So you have to be people person in that. You can direct your crew, you can keep your crew safe, you can keep the passengers safe, but at the same time, you have the leadership skills to make the calls when necessary, you know, make important decisions, but again, keeping everyone safe while you do that. So it’s kind of like I see the conductor sort of being a combination of training with hyped up or increased responsibility. You gotta have the people person skills, but also the leadership skills. And then of course, the most fun part about being a locomotive engineer is running the locomotive. I still get very giddy even after all these years when I show up for a shift. And it’s, it’s really. Again, I go to Fitzwater and it’s- It just to pull into the train yard and see the train there first thing in the morning is just really kind of cool. But to pull out of the yard first thing in the morning and just, you know, realize that you’re now in charge of this entire consist, this entire machine, it’s just one of the most fun things to see and experience. And I have, you know, in, in certain parts of our route, you know, I often love this, but there are parts on the track where the train will turn on itself, either going into a left or right hand curve. And I’ll take the opportunity to look in the mirrors and just see like the train that you’re pulling behind you and be like, wow, I’m actually moving all this stuff, you know. So to me, it’s just like, it’s the coolest, coolest. It’s, it’s the coolest feeling. It really is. It really is.

Rainah Ross [00:33:46] Is it a- is it right to assume that the engineer position has been your favorite so far?

Sean Veney [00:33:52] Yes, yes, yes. Like I said, I’ve been in, I’ve been in all the ones I talked about before, but by far the engineer is my favorite. Yeah, by far.

Rainah Ross [00:34:01] You’ve worked your way up to train engineer. Did you always have that vision or did your passion, dedication, grow as you became more engaged as a volunteer?

Sean Veney [00:34:10] You know, I never thought that I would ever get an opportunity to be an engineer. And it’s one of these things where my passion for science and my passion for education has always been there. I’ve always loved biology. I’ve always loved science and has never waned. But when people talk about their dream jobs, you know, it’s one of these things where you have something that you always wanted to become, but most of us never become that thing, type of, type of idea. [So when I had this opportunity, to me it just seemed like a childhood dream being fulfilled. Every child wants to be an astronaut or to be a pilot or do something like this again. Most never achieve those goals for various reasons. But I see this as a really, really neat ending. Not an ending as in there’s nothing more for me, but final. Like you’ve dreamt of doing this forever and now you get the opportunity to do it. So this is part what makes me so giddy, I think so much when I talk about what I do is because I’ve always wanted to do it. And I’ve never thought. Because when I went to school for biology, I mean, it was one of these things where working with trains was just a hobby. It’s a little layout that I had in my basement, you know. Yes. I use pretend. And we pretend things happen here, there we have imagination, get older. But that’s as far as I thought that dream would take me. Would just be the imagination that I would have with my model layout. And when I got the opportunity to start volunteering and then learned about the possibility of ever becoming an engineer, and I thought, wow, this can be a reality now. That was really, really cool. And it didn’t detract from my interest in science. It didn’t detract from my interest in education. It’s just I had to learn how to balance the two. I think if I had my way, I would probably spend more time with the railroad. But unfortunately, the railroad doesn’t pay the bills. So I’ve got to spend more time with the job that actually pays the bills. But for me, the railroad is a balance. It’s a balance. So I spend my week dealing with people and problems and issues and other things that again, pay the bills, but has to be done. And I really see the train as an opportunity to relax. You know, they can be long days. It’s not uncommon for me to work 10 hours or do a shift or double shift to 10 plus hours. And you’re exhausted at the end of the day, you’re absolutely exhausted. But I feel totally okay about putting those 10 hours in because they were fun hours. I actually had a lot of fun doing what I was doing.

Rainah Ross [00:36:43] Describe some of the CVSR projects that you’ve been involved in.

Sean Veney [00:36:49] So in addition to my time or my roles that I played in the railroad over the years, I also spent, I want to say four years, maybe five as the vice president of the Volunteer Association. And during my time as the vice president of the Volunteer Association, I did get involved with a lot of projects at CVSR. The one that I remember the most was the 40th anniversary celebration that we did a few years back. And that required me to attend this meeting or this celebration was planned, or the planning started about a year prior to the actual event. And so I just remember being involved with all those planning meetings and seeing how we went from a state of what seemed like complete chaos of where to start to actually seeing that event being pulled off was really, really cool and really, really amazing. So I learned a lot about sort of the behind the scenes works of the railroad. So I got to work with a lot of the board members who you don’t really see or talk to very often. But being on this special project of helping, kind of helping with the anniversary celebration, I got to work with them a lot more. So that was really a memorable moment. And there have been other sort of smaller projects sort of related to improving volunteer relations that I was involved with with the railroad. But most of most of those have come with the responsibilities associated as VP when I was VP of the Volunteer Association.

Rainah Ross [00:38:35] You encounter all kinds of people working on the train. Do you have any funny stories or memorable visitor interactions?

Sean Veney [00:38:45] I think most people, there have been some unique characters we’ve had on the train over the years. I’m trying to think back because as engineer, I’m cut off from a lot of the public. Right. I don’t really interact very much with what’s happening behind me. You know, we do get a lot of curious individuals that want to come up and ask questions about how old the locomotive is. Horsepower, just general statistics about the. About the locomotive. So it’s always great to interact with those individuals. We do have some recurring passengers on the train that are really fun to see. There’s an individual, I’ve not seen him in a while, actually. There’s an individual who literally rides or he does the Bike Aboard program. And so he rides our train constantly. Constantly. And he is just great to talk to. A really neat guy. He knows pretty much all the crew because he rides all the time and everybody knows him. So other than him, I mean, we have some repeat passengers. There’s really no one that stands out other than our regulars that we see occasionally. But I think, for me, again, just being in the locomotive, the most fun part about the interactions and the unique people that I might see are the ones that always want to tell me stories about, you know, their former days of the railroad or something that they’ve encountered or some past history that they may have had with some railroad. So those are kind of fun stories to hear occasionally. They have nothing to do with CVSR specifically, but it’s interesting to just talk to these people and kind of get their perspective on, you know, where they’ve been in life and how they’re relating that to what we’re doing here.

Rainah Ross [00:40:24] Have you- have you had any particularly positive or negative experiences?

Sean Veney [00:40:31] Well, I think every day working on the railroad, you’ve got a little bit of both. I’ll start with the positive first. The positive experiences are great. When you see people’s faces light up when the train pulls into the station. I just love that. I don’t know what it is about it, but you pull into the station, you hope you’re on time and everyone’s got the cameras out and the little kids are waving. I think it’s just so much fun. They’re just waiting for the train and hopefully they’re gonna get a great ride. The negative experiences typically are related to people doing very stupid things around a train. Unfortunately, people fail to remember most of the time that we’re on track, so we can’t steer away. We don’t brake like a car does. And so when they do stupid things around you, it does put you in a very. Not necessarily bad mood, but that does. It’s very concerning. It’s very concerning. So those are usually the negative experiences when people do stupid things around the train.

Rainah Ross [00:41:30] The CVSR attracts a broader demographic than the rest of the national park. What can you tell us about the diversity of its ridership?

Sean Veney [00:41:40] So, again, because we are a tourist attraction, or at least for some people, we’re considered a tourist attraction. We get folks from all over the world, and that means the demographics of individuals are going to be representative. So I think the individuals that ride the train are going to be a lot more diverse than what you actually see using park facilities like the trails or anything related to that. And I think that’s just because of how we branded the railroad versus what people see there to do in the park, per se. So demographically, there’s a lot more diversity that I’ve seen on the train than I’ve seen from just using the park as a regular user.

Rainah Ross [00:42:24] What have you observed about the diversity of the volunteer workforce.

Sean Veney [00:42:29] It’s been increasing. It’s not as diverse as I would like to see, and it’s still relatively low. It’s really interesting, like why we attract the people that we do and how we attract the people that we do. And I’ve always said, even as a member, when I was vice president of Volunteer Association, I’ve always said that there’s two main reasons why people would opt to volunteer for our train, and that is you either have to love trains, you’ve got to love the park, or you have to love some combination of those two. Otherwise you may not get a lot of enjoyment out of being on the train. But I think those are two very good and broad reasons that would potentially attract a large, should attract a very diverse group of people. For whatever reasons it doesn’t, we get a large group of people that will show up to volunteer orientation that we never see again. And that’s fine because, you know, you may not think once you hear about what we’re all about, it may not be right for you. That’s great. But in terms of the diversity of the people, again, we have mostly, you know, one group of people that tend to show up for orientations and you don’t see a lot of diverse people. And I don’t know why they ride the train, so they certainly know we exist. I just don’t know why you don’t see it in our volunteer form. And it’s been an issue that we’ve kind of talked about before. We don’t know what the magic bullet is to try to attract more diverse individuals to our ranks. And I don’t know what the, what the magic solution is either. But again, they ride the train, so they know we exist. Just don’t know if there’s a- there’s some disconnect between their knowledge that we’re there versus maybe their ability or willingness or desire to want to volunteer. Because again, it does take a time commitment. And if you don’t have the time, you don’t have the time. So that could be an issue for a lot of people.

Rainah Ross [00:44:23] Would you say that the, the interest meetings or maybe the starting orientation is pretty diverse or just even from that point, it’s not very diverse.

Sean Veney [00:44:33] It’s not. It’s not.

Rainah Ross [00:44:35] After all these years of volunteering, how do you maintain your precede- appreciation for the train?

Sean Veney [00:44:42] I maintain my appreciation, I think mostly because, well, it’s easy for me because I love to train. You know, literally, it’s one of these things where you hear the statement, if you love what you do, work is really not working. You know, you’re not really working. I think that’s so true. Related to what happens on the train. Furthermore, my appreciation for the train, I think, grows when I hear about and learn about all the programming that the train does that has grown exponentially over the years. When I first started working for the railroad, or volunteering for the railroad, rather, there would be one special event train a month. A special event train would be a wine or beer train, and that was it. And that’s, you know, the train just did regular scenics, but just one special event train. If you compare that to what we’re doing right now, and the amount of special programming that the university, the special programming that the railroad has for children, for adults, whether it be our wine and beer tasting, our murder mysteries, our wine and canvas, if you just lay all these things out, it’s pretty amazing, impressive that the railroad can put together all of these options for people. Even if you’ve ridden a train once, here’s another opportunity you can have that will give you a completely different experience. And having individuals at the railroad that can brainstorm these ideas and put these things together in a marketing plan that attract people to me is very, very impressive. And I think when I see that, it really, again, just makes me really happy to volunteer for such an organization. It doesn’t get stale. Again, if you’ve taken this event train, fine, come back and experience this. It’s completely different. Or if you’ve had this experience that wasn’t great, come back and try this. It might be much better for you. So having those individuals that put those pieces together and keep the train fresh and keep the train interesting for people that may have taken it before is what I think really is what gives me the sort of inspiration or keeps me happy about what I do with the railroad.

Rainah Ross [00:46:52] From your vantage point riding the train, what changes in the park landscape have you noticed over the years?

Sean Veney [00:46:59] Oh, I tell people this all the time. Riding the train through the four seasons looks completely different. I mean, it is. As a passenger, you may not know it, obviously, you may not come out very often, but for as much as I operate the train and work on the train, I see the transformation. I totally see the transformation. From winter into spring, you could see, like a barren land of just bare trees. I mean, you could see for miles and miles. And then as the leaves start to go on, the trees, they start to bloom, the trees. You can actually then see the amount of vision kind of just get closer, closer, closer, closer, closer to- Now we’re in full-blown summer where you can just see not much beyond the canopy, the trees on the other side of the tracks. And then of course, by the time you hit fall, it starts to expand again. So just having that transition of the amount that you can view, even the wildlife, what you see in the park changes over the course of a year. It’s remarkable, it’s real. You can definitely see changes in the park. Even activity of people in the park changes over the years. So there are, there are changes in many, many different directions that as an engineer, you see firsthand for sure.

Rainah Ross [00:48:14] What special wildlife do you look out for on your train rides?

Sean Veney [00:48:18] Deer are rampant. Deer are really rampant. I always get excited when there’s a coyote sighting, which we see occasionally. I saw one actually last, not last week, but the week before last, I did see a coyote. Wild turkey are also really cool to see. Those are probably other than birds and, you know, the geese and everything, those are probably the biggest category of animals that I see pretty regularly. The wild turkeys always kind of throw me a little bit. They’re always fun to see. Lots of raccoon, lots of possums. Like I said, deer are completely abundant. And every once in a while you catch a glimpse of something in the- the river itself, whether it be a beaver or think it may be otters here too. So if you catch a head, you know, something pop up in the water. It was always fun, too. That was always fun.

Rainah Ross [00:49:11] I don’t know how practical this is, but if there was like an animal on the tracks, what would be the game plan?

Sean Veney [00:49:18] So it depends on what the animal is and what you’re doing. So typically the animals we encounter the most are deer. They are deer. Deer, for whatever reason, I don’t even as a biologist, I don’t know the reason for this either. But deer are not. It’s amazing that they’re still alive and the numbers that they actually are. The deer will actually run parallel with the train, in some cases for a mile or two if they can, or at least a mile or so. And then the last second, for whatever reasons, they’ll either hopefully dart off into the woods or in some cases they’ll actually dart in front of the locomotive, in which case there’s nothing you can do. Now, me personally, I’ll tell you a side story here in just a second. Me personally, if there’s animals on the track or animals that are close to the track, I will give a warning, either bell or horn and that typically will get them to move off. They do sometimes saunter off at their own pace, but they at least get moving. And fortunately, we have not had any encounters, or at least massive encounters. They do manage to escape the locomotive, but I do at least give them warning that you’re there, and hopefully you get to scare them off. I do remember a story, though. Or actually, this wasn’t a story, but this was a time I was running the train down in Canton. We were coming into Akron, and I don’t know if you know the Canton line, but there’s a portion of the line where you go past the Akron-Fulton Airport, and we’re on the straightaway heading towards Akron. And out of nowhere, I wasn’t even. I didn’t even see this. Someone else in the back called this to my attention. There was a deer that literally was running, and he was keeping up with us. Our top speed at the time was 29 miles an hour. So this deer is just galloping and galloping and galloping and galloping, and he must have run alongside of us. He’s out in the field now, and we’re on the track, and at the end of the. The airport property was his fence. And you would think that this deer would have, you know, caught. I mean, obviously may not have seen the fence or whatever. He actually leapt over the fence, like, literally just leapt over the fence and just kept galloping and galloping and galloping. There was video that one of our trainmen had taken showing this deer, like, literally pacing us along the side of the train. It was the most odd thing I’ve ever seen in my life. Like, why is this deer pacing us the way he is? It must be a natural instinct for animals to, I don’t know, run alongside of something that is. Is kind of beside it. But again, if I encounter something on the track, usually a little bit of bail or warning horn will get them to scatter.

Rainah Ross [00:51:49] What is your favorite season to be on the train?

Sean Veney [00:51:53] Gosh, each one is so unique. I can tell you what my worst one is. I think my favorite season is probably winter. One of the things that I like a lot about the winter, which we haven’t had here in a while, is there was one time I ran in the winter time, and I can’t tell if we were the first train out that morning or it just had been a pretty big snow event. But it’s really. It’s really weird, in a cool sort of way, to not be able to see the tracks because they’re covered with snow. And so I was out one year at either. Again, I was the first train out that morning or it had snowed in between the last time we had come through. But you’re running through the valley and you can’t see the tracks in front. So it’s really. It’s a different, unique look. But I also love the winter just because of the picturescape, you know, just everything covered in snow. And I think. I think the scenery, the park just looks so great when it’s in snow, when definitely the snow is falling. So that would be my favorite part of the year, if it’s snowing, not just cold, but if it’s snowing. The least favorite, if you want to ask that, I have not very fond. Fall is kind of. Fall straddles the line for me. I think it’s very pretty from a training perspective, but operational wise, running in the fall is a little more difficult because the leaves, they do make it a little bit more challenging for the train for reasons that we can go into a little bit later if you’re interested. So it’s a little bit more challenging operationally to run a train in the fall. I also sometimes dislike the summer because we do have to deal with trees down the tracks and we have more opportunity and more chances of that happening in the summertime. And those are not fun when you come around a blind corner and there’s a tree right across the track.

Rainah Ross [00:53:46] Yeah, yeah.

Sean Veney [00:53:48] Gotta get your heart racing.

Rainah Ross [00:53:51] What is your favorite CBSR event?

Sean Veney [00:53:59] I love the Steam events that are coming up in September. I’m not plugging that. I’m just saying I love the Steam events. I like the enthusiasm that steam brings to the valley. I fortunately have gotten the opportunity to be inside the 765. Also got to run it at one point a couple times. So that by far, just with the amount of buzz, the amount of people, the amount of energy, the amount of excitement coupled with, you know, the fact that it’s fall, you got the changing leaves. That to me is my favorite event that CVSR does all year long. The Steam event.

Rainah Ross [00:54:36] Do you have an interesting story that took place one time during that event?

Sean Veney [00:54:41] Not so much an interesting story, but I think the most fun activity that I have associated with Steam was just I got to run the 765. And so when I tell people that story, you know, there’s actually a couple of videos that are floating around where you can actually see me running locomotive on YouTube and I’ve actually saved a couple and I’ve said, see there’s proof right there. I’m actually in the seat and I move. So to me, that was probably the most fun story associated with steam being here is my ability to actually be a part of the operating crew for this locomotive for at least a little while. But I know locomotive is just, it’s amazing. It’s amazing.

Rainah Ross [00:55:20] What do you like or not like about wearing the CVSR uniform?

Sean Veney [00:55:28] I like the uniform. So my uniform is basically just coveralls, coveralls that get covered in oil and other dirty parts of the locomotive. I like it because when I put it on, it means I’m going to work on the train and I like being around the trains. I like again, everything about CVSR. So when I put that on, to me it’s a sign that it’s going to be a great day. I’m going out and have some fun. This is fantastic. I think what I least like about the uniform, it’s incredibly hot. Summertime, it is hot. And for reasons, safety reasons, we have to wear what we do wear. But locomotives are not air conditioned. And so you get a hot day in the park and minimal air in the locomotives and you’re sweating, you’re sweating pretty bad all day long. So that’s probably the most, you know, it comes with the territory. It’s part of, it’s part of what it is. And so- But that’s probably my least favorite part of what I have to wear is that sometimes it can get hot.

Rainah Ross [00:56:28] Would you say that people react differently to you when you’re in uniform?

Sean Veney [00:56:33] Yes, yes. And so if I get identified as the engineer, that just changes people’s perspective about, you know, who wants to say hi, who wants a picture, who wants to wave, that type of thing. So I have, depending on how much I want to interact with the public, I might wear a different hat, literally, so to speak. So the standard uniform for brakeman and engineers, pretty much the same coveralls, that type of thing. So brakeman and engineer kind of blend in together. Now the hat that I wear though can usually identify me as engineer because there is an engineer cap, the striped, blue and white one. So if I’m in the mood for a lot of pictures and a lot of questions, I’ll wear that hat. If, if I want to kind of blend it a little bit more, I’ll just wear a standard CVSR cap. And that really drastically changes the interaction with the public. It really does. And you can tell I can wear the CVSR cap and I can walk from one end of the platform to another. And, you know, no one will know unless they saw me step off the locomotive, who I really am. But if I have got the engineer cap on, I won’t even be able to walk 10 feet without a question, without a picture request, something like that, which is fine. It’s great. It’s great.

Rainah Ross [00:57:41] What are some of the top questions that you get from people or your colleagues get when you’re in uniform?

Sean Veney [00:57:47] How long does the train? How much the train weigh? They have questions about why there’s locomotives on both sides of the train or engines on both sides, both ends of the train. You got questions about where our track rights extend, how far north we go, how far south do we go? A lot of it’s operational based. How many horsepower? What’s it like driving a train? Are some of the more common questions I get.

Rainah Ross [00:58:22] Has your family or friends ever ridden the train?

Sean Veney [00:58:26] Yes. So my family did come up for Polar Express, I want to say, back in 2018, and I took them on a ride. I was the engineer during that time. So they rode from Akron to the North Pole. And there are plans for them to come back and take a trip in the summer. So if not this year, then hopefully next year. And I have colleagues that ride the train and they’ve seen me on it pretty often as well. But my family has been on the train. Yes.

Rainah Ross [00:58:58] Have you developed any special friendships with trained staff or other volunteers?

Sean Veney [00:59:05] We, I have. So I see the CVSR volunteers, honestly, as us all being a big family. We’ve got monthly meetings where, quite honestly, it’s fun for us to be able to come together. I’ve learned a lot about a lot of the volunteers, their personal lives in terms of, you know, their spouses, their children, what’s going on in their personal lives and vice versa. And so it’s just been great to connect with multiple people. That’s one of the things I like most about the CVSR is that we’re really. We all really get along. It’s really. It’s a friendly group. It’s friendly faces. And having this past year where everyone had to be isolated and socially distanced and our meetings had to be virtual and. Or canceled, you actually, I missed a lot of people. I missed a lot of people in terms of being able just to chat with them and see how they’re doing and what’s going on and reconnecting with them. And everyone’s got a different story, everyone’s got a different background. It’s interesting to see where people came from and why they chose to volunteer with the railroad. You know, you obviously have me and what I do, but you’ve got other professionals. We’ve got homemakers, we got people in all walks of life. And it’s interesting to hear their story about why they come to the railroad, why they enjoy working at the railroad, why they enjoy volunteering at the railroad, and again, just how their personal lives are either completely different from or intermixed with what’s going on with the train. So I would definitely say there have been some good relationships that I’ve established from being a volunteer.

Rainah Ross [01:00:44] Is there anyone or something someone did that made you feel particularly welcome?

Sean Veney [01:00:51] I remember as a new volunteer, from the moment that I went to my first volunteer meeting, being completely welcomed in the organization. And the reason why I said that is because as a new person walking in, again, I didn’t know anybody there. And at the time we were meeting at Hale Farm, the carriage house at Hale Farm, I didn’t know anybody. It was my first meeting and I go there and one of the things they asked new volunteers to do is to stand up and introduce themselves. So I did and said a few words about what I did for a living, that type of thing. And it actually happened to be. And I didn’t know this at the time. There was another professor who was volunteering to train at the time. He was in a different department, so I didn’t know him. But at the meeting when we had a break, he actually came up and introduced himself and we started talking about work things, of course, but we had that immediate connection that we worked in the same place. But it wasn’t just him. Every other person I got a friendly hello from. People were very engaging. They wanted to know more about me, they wanted to hear more about me. It was an extremely welcoming environment. I mean, again, you’re a little bit unsure when you go into a new place whether or not, you know, not so much you’re going to be accepted, but what’s going to be the feel? What’s going to be the mood here? What’s the environment going on be like? I felt completely at ease with these individuals. Again everybody was so friendly. Everybody was so talkative. The hardest part was just trying to remember everyone’s name. I know I talked to you before, but I can’t remember your name. That was probably the hardest part. But in terms of feeling welcoming, totally, absolutely. I felt completely welcome and absolutely welcome.

Rainah Ross [01:02:25] Have people of color told you that they feel unwelcome in parks or on the CVSR either recently or in the past?

Sean Veney [01:02:35] So not so much on the train. I think of the ones that I recall that we still have as active volunteers, you know, they come out pretty regularly whenever they can. We have not had any, fortunately, we’ve not had any conversations about them feeling unwelcomed or not fitting in as because of being a minority in the organization. And I have to say, unfortunately, again, the number of people that I know of color that even utilize the park service, park system is sad and shockingly low. And because of that, I have not heard any personal stories of anyone having any negative interactions in the park, which is good in itself, but it’s also bad because again, they don’t even come out to the park in many cases. So I would have to say no on both answers or both questions, mostly just because the sample size is pretty low. It’s pretty low.

Rainah Ross [01:03:43] What about yourself?

Sean Veney [01:03:45] I have not actually. Again, CVSR has been extremely welcoming. I have not had any instances where I felt unwelcome at the organization. And even as a park goal, one of the things that I am often amazed at, and I don’t know why I should be amazed or shocked about this, but when I utilize like the towpath or some other trails, 90-plus percent of the people that I pass is willing, are willing to wave or say hello, engage, just. Just kind of talk about, give you another story related to that. A couple weeks ago, I was biking with a friend of mine and he had just gotten a new bike. We were on the hiking bike trail and we had ridden from Stow, where I live, to Brandywine Falls. We were meaning to go a little bit further than Brandywine, but we were just had gone down to the valley. We just crossed over the Brandywine Waterfalls, which starting to go uphill now and his bike broke. So we kind of pulled off to the side. It’s in that big field where that bed and breakfast house is, I think right there. And we pulled off and he had like this little toolbox and we were trying to fix his bike, but we weren’t making very much progress with the tools that he had. I didn’t have any tools, but he, you know, what he had wasn’t really working. And people were passing by here, two African American males, right here we are sitting on the side of the road. We’re clearly having issues with this bike. I would say that a good majority of people actually stopped and asked if they. If we needed any help, which was really encouraging to see. One individual, after he had passed by again checked to see if we were okay. We’re like, yeah, we’re having some issues here. He actually stopped, got off his bike and actually had tools to assist us. So I would say he didn’t have to do that. And the fact that he took it out of his, he felt it okay to approach these two African American men and see if they needed help, to me was a really positive thing about the type of people that you can meet in the park. So just based on those two experiences, you know, my interactions in the park have all been pleasant. I have never had any interactions where I have had any unpleasantries with anybody that I felt were associated with race in this park.

Rainah Ross [01:06:13] Okay, we’re gonna move to some more train-related travel questions.

Sean Veney [01:06:17] Okay.

Rainah Ross [01:06:18] Have you, have you been involved with trains in other ways?

Sean Veney [01:06:22] Not involved other than a passenger. I have not operated trains. And the reason why you can’t do that is because, because you have to be qualified on whichever lines you’re operating. So I have been a passenger on trains in other jurisdictions in other areas, but that’s part of the extent of my interaction with other trains.

Rainah Ross [01:06:44] You mentioned this earlier, but are there any other specific trains in America or abroad that have caught your passion?

Sean Veney [01:06:51] So surprisingly, I’ve never taken Amtrak in the United States. It is on my bucket list of things to do and in fact I was planning a trip that would have put me. There’s two things I want to do in Amtrak and I’m talking about the trains I have experienced before. So two things I want to do on Amtrak. One is to take Amtrak cross country through the Rockies. So I want to be in like the Zephyr and take it across country and just see the Rockies. I mean, I’ve been out west many occasions with airplanes, but I’ve never taken cross-country on a train. So that’s one of the things I just want to do is just take a multi day train trip across the country. The second thing I want to do, and I kind of think back to my childhood for the reasons why I want to do this particular trip. And that is Amtrak runs an auto train. So the auto train is sort of an express train that runs from Lorton, Virginia, which is just south of Washington, D.C., which is the area I grew up in. And it stops in Sanford, Florida just outside of Orlando. And the great thing about this train is you can put your car on the train and they’ll transport you and your car down to Florida. So it’s a great way to vacation in Florida and have your car with you. So it’s a trip that I’ve always wanted to do. And I have yet to do it, but I came very close to doing it this year. But circumstances changed that. So my experiences for trains in the United States is pretty minimal to zero, other than seeing them and knowing a little bit about their routes and that type of thing. I’ve not experienced them as a passenger. I’ve done a lot more train travel in Europe. So in Europe, folks rely a lot more on train travel than they do cars, which is complete opposite of what we have here. So when I traveled in Europe, I was in several countries there that was the main mode of transportation, both within the country itself and even across several countries. And there were no specific trains by name other than I did take the TGV. I was a little bit disappointed by that, but we’ll get to that in just a second. But the trains in Europe, in my opinion, were very efficient, very clean. They were on time, like to the second they’re on time. So when the train says it’s leaving 11 o’clock, it’s leaving at 11 o’clock. If you’re there at 11:01, you just missed the train. But they’re very efficient, they’re very clean, they’re very convenient. Multiple times a day, you have access to being able to move around. So just the efficiency in which European train travel works compared to what we have in the United States is like night and day. My one specific train travel that I remember specifically, or one specific trip that I remember, if you want to name a train, would be a couple years ago, I was traveling from Milan, Italy to Paris. I’ve done this trip before, and I booked a ticket on the TGV, which is supposed to be this high speed. The TGV premiered, I mean, late ’70s, ’80s. I mean, it’s an older train, but at the time that it premiered, it was supposed to be one of the fastest trains in the world. So I was very excited to, 30 years after the debut, to take my first TGV trip. And I wasn’t really impressed, quite honestly. You know, the train wasn’t. Yeah, there were parts where we were going fast, but I wasn’t extremely impressed. You could tell that it was an older train just by the decor and just the feel of it. So it got me to my destination. It was still a lot more efficient than what I could have done alternatively, but I just wasn’t as express. I was really thinking TGV was going to be this really luxurious train, and it just wasn’t. Again, maybe if I had written it 30 years ago when it came out it would have been, but it definitely was showing its age. It definitely was showing its age.

Rainah Ross [01:10:37] Do you go out of your way to travel by train? I guess. I guess over abroad, since you don’t take many trains in America.

Sean Veney [01:10:47] I would do it in the United States if trains here were more efficient than what they are. The problem with Amtrak, obviously is they don’t own much of their own rail lines, so they really have to jockey with freight traffic in terms of being able to get from destination A to destination B and unfortunately slows Amtrak down a lot. You hear stories about trains being hours late in some cases. So if train travel were more efficient in the United States, I would be the first person signed up to travel to any destination by train because in many cases, again, not necessarily the fastest way to get there, but it’s just a different way of traveling. And again, it’s a way to travel if you’re not in a hurry. You don’t have to be at a certain place by a certain time. It could be great. So I certainly would actually do that. What was the question again?

Rainah Ross [01:11:38] Just what do you go out of your way to travel by?

Sean Veney [01:11:40] Oh, yeah. So again, if it was the United States, I definitely would go out of my way to travel by train. And in Europe, I mean, that’s, that’s just, it’s just, that is the standard. So it’s not really going out of your way. It’s just normal transportation because again, they’re just so efficient. The trains run so much more efficiently over there. So. But yes, I would, I would be the type of person to go out of my way to travel by train over an airplane or car.

Rainah Ross [01:12:04] What would you say is your preferred mode of transportation?

Sean Veney [01:12:11] Well, yeah, that’s a trick question because I would prefer to travel by train if the destinations were more convenient. But unfortunately, just because you want to get there fast, it’s airplane. Just because you just want to get there and not take three days to do so. But if I wasn’t in a hurry, and again, Amtrak were a lot more. If Amtrak served better cities and more major cities, I would take the train over a plane or even a car any day. Any day.

Rainah Ross [01:12:43] Have you ever visited other national parks with ties to trains?

Sean Veney [01:12:48] I have not, but they are all on my bucket list. So I definitely want to go out west and these aren’t necessarily in national parks per se, but I definitely want to ride Silverton to Durango, some of the ones that are the narrow gauge out western Colorado, but I have not been in the national parks where there’s a train directly tied to them.

Rainah Ross [01:13:11] Now, some of the earliest companies who supported national parks were railroad companies who helped to increase tourism. Have you ever seen. Have you ever seen yourself as a continuation of this historical legacy?

Sean Veney [01:13:25] What’s the first part of the question, again?

Rainah Ross [01:13:28] Just the fact that some. The first companies to support national parks or railroad companies to increase tourism.

Sean Veney [01:13:34] Oh, I see. So I think, obviously, CVSR has a rich history. That’s how we got started was a way to sort of bring people into the park who would otherwise sort of visit the Cleveland area again, without full knowledge of park services that have trains running through them or to them. I’m sure that’s how a lot of these parks may have gotten established or have a basis, but I just don’t have any knowledge of that specifically of any examples where a train service has actually improved tourism in a national park, specifically.

Rainah Ross [01:14:19] Okay, we’re gonna move on to some questions about parks.

Sean Veney [01:14:22] Okay.

Rainah Ross [01:14:23] How did you experience nature growing up?

Sean Veney [01:14:27] It started with me going out and collecting ants and jars, collecting lightning bugs, fireflies in jars. I was always just. I grew up not near wooded area, but there was a creek and some woods near where I grew up. Up. So we would go down and play in the creek all the time and catch minnows and catch salamanders. Occasionally we would get lucky and find a box turtle that I would keep for a little, for a couple weeks, and then, you know, eventually let it go. So I think that’s what really started my interest in nature. Just kind of exploring and doing childhood things in the creek and out in the woods and seeing what I can catch and try to keep alive for a couple days. I think my interest in nature really exploded when I joined the Boy Scouts, because prior to that, again, it was just weekend excursions with friends, just killing time type of thing. But joining the Scouting program, really, and I say this truthfully, really opened my eyes to experiences that I never would have thought I would have ever had and probably would not have had if it were not for the Scouting program. I’ll give you a classic example. Camping, skiing. These are things that I probably would not have. Well, maybe camping, but skiing. Probably something I would not have ever done in my life had I not been exposed to it through the scouting program. So Scouts really taught me how to appreciate more of the outdoors. And I was already an outdoor person to begin with, so it wasn’t really a hard switch to get me in that direction. But it just opened my eyes to things that I probably would not have been experienced to growing up the way that I grew up or having the experiences that I had growing up.

Rainah Ross [01:16:19] Do you have any favorite parks?

Sean Veney [01:16:25] They’re all different and unique in their own right. I would have to say my favorite parks, unfortunately, say this would be out West. I love Yellowstone. Yosemite’s on my list, but from what I’ve seen of it, it is also a cool park to visit. I visited a couple of the parks in Utah, so Arches and Badlands, those are also very, very cool parks. Very unique. And every park is so different that you can. You have different ones for different reasons.

Rainah Ross [01:16:59] And what do you usually do when you go out West?

Sean Veney [01:17:01] Mostly it’s hiking and sightseeing. Just viewing the different vantages and the terrain out there is completely different than what it is here. So it’s amazing to actually see, in my opinion, what the earth should look like, or at least one point did look like, compared to all the city buildings and skyscrapers and everything else we have here on the east coast and around much of the world. But I just am amazed by the difference in terrain. So mostly for me, when I go out west to visit these parks, it’s, you know, it’s driving around and just seeing what you can see. It’s hiking, the different trails. It’s basically just taking in all the differences compared to what we have on the East Coast.

Rainah Ross [01:17:43] Have you explored this national park much?

Sean Veney [01:17:46] I have. There are always little gems of places that I’m discovering that I’ve never been to before. But I do make it a part- a point when I am deciding to go out on a hike to maybe try a new trail that I’ve not been to before, or to find a new place to bike that I’ve not been to before. But mostly in terms of hiking, I think that’s the biggest sort of advantage that we have here. But yes, I do make it a point to try to find some place that I’ve not been to before.

Rainah Ross [01:18:15] What are some of your favorite trails or sights to see?

Sean Veney [01:18:18] So a recent one that I discovered, which, again, I didn’t even. It’s. It boggles my mind why I’ve not been to this before. But a couple weeks ago I did the Oak Hill Trail. And I love the lakes that are back there in part of the trail. Like, I just. Like, it completely blew my mind that they were even there. And I took the opportunity to kind of just sit there. And I guess the particular day that I was there, the sun was just right, so the trees were reflecting off the lake, and it’s things I’ve seen before, like with Indigo Lake and stuff on the train, but I just had never seen it at that particular location before. So just the things that I saw on that trail and how nicely manicured it was and how easy it was to hike, it was one of my favorite trails, I have to say now. And it wasn’t crowded, which is the best thing.

Rainah Ross [01:19:05] How can parks be more welcoming places?

Sean Veney [01:19:10] I think there’s a lot of things that would deter people from coming to parks. For me, I tend to avoid parks that are overly crowded. So I wouldn’t say limit the number of people, but find ways to either spread people out more so they’re not just congregated in one area. That for me would be more welcoming because I know specifically I don’t like going to Peninsula on the weekends. I try to avoid Peninsula on the weekends. So if I can go anywhere else in the park, I will, except for Peninsula on the weekends and you know, Boston Mills becoming the same area the same way now. So parks can be more welcoming if they can find ways to disperse people once they’re in the park. I think parks can be more welcoming if they offer a lot for people to do. So various hiking and biking trails would also be very welcome. You want people to come back and have a new and fresh experience every time they go. Parks can be also more welcoming, and I see this a lot in this park, by having ambassadors or people just talk to people as they’re traveling or they’re moving to the park. See if you have questions, where are you guys from? Welcome to our park. I think little things like that really go a long way to making people feel really welcome. And that’s the experiences that people will remember as well. That a ranger actually stopped by and just said hi to us and you know, asked us where we’re from and said, you know, I hope you have a great hike and told us some interesting things to try or visit in the park. If you like, you know, if you like waterfalls, you might want to go here. Or if you like long distance hikes, you might want to go here. I think that really that personal touch is really what’s going to drive people to come back, I believe.

Rainah Ross [01:20:46] Okay, we just have some closing questions now. What does it mean to you to be a part of the CVSR crew?

Sean Veney [01:20:55] To be part of the CVSR crew? I think the best adjective to describe that would be extremely proud. It’s fun. When I tell people that I volunteer for the CVSR, I probably get more questions about that than I do about my real job. People don’t care about being a professor. People don’t care so much about the biology of science. But when I tell them that I get to run a locomotive, I get just this long laundry list of questions. How do you do that? How did you get involved in that? What’s it like? So for me to be able to address those questions and see that people have an interest in them, to me, that’s probably the best part about being a volunteer.

Rainah Ross [01:21:44] How do you envision the future of the CVSR?

Sean Veney [01:21:47] I thought about this question recently, and obviously the CVSR has a really important partnership with Cuyahoga Valley National Park Service. The railroad could not run if the park said, no, we don’t want you to run. So I am very hopeful, not that there’s any indication that this is going to happen, but I’m very hopeful that the relationship between the park and the railroad continues indefinitely, that the park will always want the train to be a part of its environment. I also hope that the programming that the railroad does continues to grow and attract ridership. I’m amazed at one of the things that I thought and hasn’t happened yet, fortunately, but one of the things I thought was when we went from having one special event train a month to now having them literally every Friday, my first thought was that people are going to burn out. That people are going to burn out, and you’re going to have people who maybe went to an event, and even though the event’s a little bit different, they’re going to just see it as it’s just another opportunity to ride the train. We’ve already done that. We’re going to skip that. I am always amazed at how each of our special events sells out week after week after week after week. So to me, I hope that continues, whether it be increased programming, whether it be increased marketing, I hope that that continues. And so, to me, the future of the railroad is bright again. I hope it remains bright if the relationship between the park and the railroad continues to be on good grounds as it is now. I hope the future remains bright if programming remains fresh and new, and they find interesting ways to keep people interested in riding the train. And I also hope that the future of the railroad is bright if they continue to maintain their infrastructure, find ways to, you know, maybe go back to Canton one day. Maybe. I know this has been in the works, probably never happened, but extend trains all the way to Cleveland, you know, so things like this, I think, would be great ways to expand the train, make it fresh. But overall, I see the future as being really bright from what I’ve witnessed so far.

Rainah Ross [01:24:08] How do you envision the future of trains as a whole?

Sean Veney [01:24:10] Unfortunately, well, for- let’s break this down to like two sort of categories. Talk about freight versus passenger service. I think freight service will continue to be strong. We depend on freight trains, and I don’t see that declining in any capacity. So freight service will continue to grow, continue to be as large as it always has been. Amtrak’s a little bit more, I don’t know, it’s a little bit more wavery. It’s always kind of been on certain years to make a profit, other years to have a loss. I think Amtrak needs to, not so much Amtrak, but the federal government needs to invest in infrastructure. They really do. If we want to improve train travel and make it, as you said, the preferred mode of transportation for certain people, you have to make it more convenient than what it is. And Amtrak has to operate at a line where they can’t be the cheapest because they won’t make any money. They can’t be the most expensive because then they won’t get any passengers. So you have to straddle a very fine line of sort of pricing. It kind of brings back to my example about the auto train. I kind of priced out a trip or what it would take to get me down to Florida and with my car and, you know, accommodations on the train overnight, it was just above what it would be for an airline ticket and rent a car down there. So when people have to make decisions like that, they’re going to go for the cheapest. So I think Amtrak has to invest in infrastructure or Congress has to provide funds for Amtrak to invest in infrastructure that’s going to allow them to make train travel more convenient for people. And I think if you make it more convenient for those of us that are rail enthusiasts, we’ll definitely flock to it. But even for people that are more on the fence, where they may not like to fly, but they have to, or they may not want to drive, but they have to, train travel could be a very viable option for them if you make it a lot more convenient. So I see freight traffic overall being just very strong. Train travel has to do- they need improvements. They need improvements.

Rainah Ross [01:26:20] What gives you hope?

Sean Veney [01:26:26] I am hopeful. If we’re talking about the future of trains, I think having a dedicated group of individuals that want to see like Amtrak succeed, that want to see train travel grow, is hopeful and inspiring because those are the ones that are going to push for things to happen, unfortunately, it’s uphill battle because there’s a lot of hurdles, there’s a lot of red tape, there’s a lot of little tiny details have to be worked out. And it all comes down to money. It all comes down to money for the most part. But I am hopeful that there is still a core group of people that are dedicated to keeping train travel alive and at least somewhat viable in this country. Again, there are lots of improvements that have to be made. But for the ones that are adamant that we improve and we do much more to compete with, like European train travel, there is hope that improvements will be made. It’s not going to happen overnight. It’s not going to happen in two years. It may not even happen in five years. But to see success stories about things improving the way they are, I think is what is going to be most hopeful for, in terms of my opinion, keeping train travel alive. 

Rainah Ross [01:27:49] What discourages you? 

Sean Veney [01:27:51] The naysayers, the people that say it’s going to cost too much. We in this country have a problem with making investments that are going to benefit us long term. We live a lot, unfortunately, a lot of us live in the now and not planning for the future. We are reactive as opposed to proactive. And we see that unfortunately with a lot of things. There have been, you know, numerous bridge collapses, just example where the signs have all been there that there’s deterioration. There have been, you know, train accidents, unfortunately, where the signs have all been there, recommendations have been made that things have to be made to prevent these in the future. And rather than putting the money into investing before accidents happen, we are more reactive. We try to, we play the what if scenario, let’s just sit back and wait type of thing. And when you tempt fate like that, that’s how we get accidents happening rather than being more proactive. So I think that’s going to be the biggest discouraging part is convincing the influential people and the people that we need to make things happen, convincing them to be proactive rather than reactive.

Rainah Ross [01:29:02] Is there anything else that you would like to tell us?

Sean Veney [01:29:07] From a trade perspective or from an anything perspective?

Rainah Ross [01:29:10] Anything.

Sean Veney [01:29:11] So in terms of I’ve been thinking a lot about just since this is the what is the African American perspective of oral history. I’ve been thinking a lot about a question you mentioned earlier about getting more minority involvement and participation in parks. And one of the programs, and again, I’m not 100% familiar with this and park still might do this, but I remember there’s a service or a program that you all used to do, the get up, get out and go program. Didn’t see it last year, obviously, but maybe the year before it did happen. I wish that they were, back up a second. So I think in order to get more African Americans and minorities sort of interested in the park services, to get them more involved with volunteering, you have to, in many cases, start early. And I think for me, it was a natural fit because as I said, I was a kid, I loved going out and collecting the pill bugs and lightning bugs and things like that. So for me, it was a natural fit. But for a lot of these youth, I was really amazed when I ran that program and when I did it many, many years ago, they busted a bunch of kids from Akron and the plan was to take them to, I believe, Indigo, have an event in Indigo, and then coming back, but some of the buses were late, so we ended up not doing that. But I remember talking to the rangers who were running that. So Ranger Pam Machuga and was running it and some others were there and just hearing some of the stories of these kids who live in Akron and obviously where Akron is located, it’s in the heart of the Cuyahoga National Park. And just being completely blown away and almost saddened by the responses that many of those kids never even been in the parks or they had never been to the Cuyahoga Valley National Park before, and here it is literally in their backyard. They don’t have to go very far to get here. There’s no entrance fee to this park, one of the few national parks in the country where you don’t have to pay to get in and to hear the stories about how these kids had never ventured into the park and experienced what it means, means to be in a park, whether it means, again, each person’s experience is going to be different. But the idea that they’ve never even taken advantage of that, not in school, field trips, nothing like that, was really. It was mind boggling. It was mind boggling. So my point is, as a thought, I would like to see or wish that the park service could put together more opportunities to showcase what they have available so that these kids can learn about the park, would want to come in and do these things. For a lot of kids, I don’t know if it’s considered taboo to want to come in the park. It’s not interesting. Their friends aren’t doing it, so therefore they don’t want to do it type of thing. I don’t know what is the mindset associated with it. But I think if the park devoted some effort into making itself welcoming at all levels, particularly young minorities, I think we can see a lot more of minorities coming to CVSR meetings. We can see a lot more minorities using the park. I mean, I take note mentally when I’m in the park how many people look like me, right. When I’m on the bike trail I take mental note how many people that I pass by that have skin color like mine. And sadly in many cases I can count on one hand number of people that are like that. It shouldn’t be that way. We live in Akron and Cleveland, you know, large minority population. So I would like to see the park. If I had one final thing to say or final thoughts, it would be great if the park had some type of programming that specifically targeted minority populations. Whether it be going to schools, you may already do this. So if I’m repeating something that already exists and forgive my ignorance, but whether it’s going into schools and having more school based field trips in the park, whether it’s having more programming so that students can be exposed to things like what it’s like to go camping. I know you can’t camp in a park here, but you know, just some simulated version of let’s take you through what it means to camp. Let’s take you through what it means to, you know, identify poisonous plants and non poisonous plants. Plants, just simple things like that I think are enough to the right individuals to, to turn on that light bulb that really would get them kind of like, huh, science really can be fun. And I shouldn’t be afraid to go take a walk in the woods as some people call it, you know, and again, some people are afraid of spiders, some people, or they don’t want the natural mosquitoes or God forbid they see a snake. But taking some of the mysteriousness out of that, taking some of the fear out of that and starting that early, I think will go a long way to improving a lot of what we see around us. And for adults, I mean, it could be separate programming that’s different. But I think for getting more kids in a park, something like that might be a really good start. And I was encouraged again when I saw the get up, get out and go program because again there were busloads, literally the students and most had never even stepped foot in the park. And I thought to myself, what a wasted opportunity here rather than reaching out to these students once a year for this program. And literally all they got was a train ride, unfortunately. But there could be other ways you can reach them and really get them excited again. If their friends are likely to do it, they’re likely to do it. So the more people that participate, I think that could pay off in terms of improving the image of the park. That’s a goal. If that’s a goal.

Rainah Ross [01:34:48] All righty. Well, that was our last question, so thank you for participating in our oral history. We really appreciate it.

Sean Veney [01:34:54] Absolutely. It’s been my pleasure.

Rainah Ross [01:34:56] Yeah.

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