Cordell Stokes interview, 08 July 2021

Abstract

Cordell Stokes is the son of influential politician and Cleveland mayor Carl Stokes. Carl was the first Black mayor of a major American city and practitioner of what now could be considered Environmental Justice. While Stokes was a leader in the cleanup of the Cuyahoga River, he also acted against urban environmental problems. In this oral history, Cordell discusses his father's legacy on the environmental movement and shares family stories growing up. He also discussed lessons imparted by senator Louis Stokes, his uncle and influential Cleveland congressmen. He also discusses his personal heroes and father's passion for sports and the outdoors.

Interviewee

Stokes, Cordell (interviewee)

Interviewer

Ross, Rainah (interviewer); Schnack, Erich (participant)

Project

Cuyahoga Valley National Park

Date

7-8-2021

Document Type

Oral History

Duration

83 minutes

Recommended Citation

"Cordell Stokes interview, 08 July 2021" (2021). Cleveland Regional Oral History Collection. Interview 343014.
https://engagedscholarship.csuohio.edu/crohc000/1435

Related Resources

CVNP @ Cleveland Voices

Transcript

Rainah Ross [00:00:01] My name is Rainah Ross. I am interviewing Cordell Stokes for an oral history on July 8, 2021. My tech person is Erich Schnack. We are located in the Cuyahoga Valley National Park at Stone Cottage. It is currently 1pm. What is your full name?

Cordell Stokes [00:00:17] Cordell Edwards Stokes.

Rainah Ross [00:00:21] Where and what year were you born?

Cordell Stokes [00:00:24] Born in Cleveland, Ohio, 1969.

Rainah Ross [00:00:28] What was your mother’s and father’s full names?

Cordell Stokes [00:00:31] My father is Carl Burton Stokes and my mother is Shirley Sacks. S, A, C, K, S. 

Rainah Ross [00:00:41] What year were each of them born?

Cordell Stokes [00:00:43] Well, my father was born in 1927. June of 1927. My mother was January of ’53. I mean, no, I’m sorry, ’35. ’35.

Rainah Ross [00:01:00] What are your siblings’ names?

Cordell Stokes [00:01:03] My brother Carl Jr., my sister Cordy, and just myself.

Rainah Ross [00:01:08] What year were each of them born?

Cordell Stokes [00:01:11] ’58 for my brother Carl and my sister would have been about ’61.

Rainah Ross [00:01:18] Could you tell us about your mom? What was she like, her personality?

Cordell Stokes [00:01:23] First of all, I grew up well, obviously I was born to both of my parents, but around the age of four my father had custody of us. However, I care for my mother today and she is someone who grew up in the Deep South of the Mississippi. Her family were all business people. She was one of about seven siblings. She married, had a second marriage, and then on his death took over a pharmacy store in the core of Cleveland in which he relocated from New Jersey here to Cleveland in order to take care of the business that her husband at the time had been operating and then subsequently retired. And now she’s in her middle 80s, but good lady, very solid, good cook, very disciplined and just a delight.

Rainah Ross [00:02:35] How would you describe your father? What was he like, his personality?

Cordell Stokes [00:02:40] From a family standpoint, there was a discipline, the balancing act of having to manage three children while he was carrying on his own professional career, very involved and attached to the Black community from which he derived, obviously coming out of the projects in Cleveland. Very much so a leader, someone who was willing to put himself on the front line to help advance many of the causes important to the civil rights arena. But more importantly for him, he transitioned it from the civil rights to Black political power. That led to him becoming the first Black mayor of a major American city here in Cleveland, Ohio in 1967.

Rainah Ross [00:03:30] What do you know about his family?

Cordell Stokes [00:03:32] I know everything about the family. We have a very strong record from family trees that continuously get updated. We were first sold in Virginia and then we were taken, more or less the majority of us, into Wrens, Georgia, which is W, R, E, N, S. Very small area and we still have family down there. As a matter of fact, a couple of weeks ago they participated in a conference call, virtual call. I wasn’t a participant. And so I know a very good history. And then I have a long-tenured relationship with all the immediate family that did first come up, first, Georgia to Cleveland, which was actually my grandmother. [00:04:29] 

Rainah Ross [00:04:29] How did your parents meet? 

Cordell Stokes [00:04:31] Over at Case Western Reserve. My mother was a graduate student there. She actually, she’s a HBCU graduate of Fisk going down your area. And my father had already graduated from Cleveland Marshall Law School and was working in the prosecutor’s office. So those two met. Well, I guess he was running around the university probably trying to find someone to have a relationship with somewhere along the lines. But they got together and produced three.

Rainah Ross [00:05:11] Your father was a talented public speaker. Where did he get that from?

Cordell Stokes [00:05:16] Really can’t give you that background other than I can say this now. My grandfather died. He was a foundry worker. He was probably about maybe a year to two years of age. My uncle was two years ahead of him. So he would have had a little bit better understanding or at least being able to identify my grandfather physically. Grandmother worked as a domestic worker. And so for me from that standpoint, there was nothing that would have been generated from there. However, there is a long time community activist that I had to learn from, learn about when I was a young person from my father, and that was a gentleman by the name of John O. Holly. John O. Holly was a Black man from the South. He had become very politically active in the community down in the project area below 55th. Since you’re from the area, you know Cleveland quite well. And so his popularity at the time was that there were a lot of white businesses in the area, but no Blacks could work for them. So John O. Holly put together a program protest that if you won’t hire us, we won’t buy from you. And then he took a mentor, protege relationship with my father when Mr. Holly was doing work for then Governor Rhodes. And so he drove Mr. Holly. So I think that if anything derived to drive him to become either a good public speaker, speaker, an activist, etc. The foundation was with John O. Holly and those that might have been close to him.

Rainah Ross [00:07:13] How do you look back on your childhood?

Cordell Stokes [00:07:16] Well, they get it finally. And it also provided a preparation for me to be able to deal with challenges in life. My father died when I was just getting into my young. I was in college, all basketball scholarships. I was about, actually about 25 at the time. So growing up with him in the big city of New York, especially during the 1970s, watching his activities as a professional and then off site from work, because he was very engaged in the community, especially being a very fantastic pool player to the point where he’s played against some of the world renowned historic pool players. Not because it was just a joy. I’m not like it was for competitive reasons. So that brought you into the community regularly then obviously me being very athletically oriented, football, basketball, he was very engaged with me from there. And so when I look back from my childhood, I thought that he provided a great foundation for us on all levels, for us to be able to deal with our life not as special people, but as people like everyone else.

Rainah Ross [00:08:47] How did your father balance home life with his career?

Cordell Stokes [00:08:50] Well, that goes back to the previous question. He perfected it to the most part. And this was. He was outside of public life at this time. This is more when he was a newscaster in New York. So where my older brother, sister, they had the challenges earlier on when he was in public life that he would not be at home as regularly. And that’s where my mother would take care of the business. Me, I grew up more on the back end of that as he was transitioning out of the mayor’s office. And then for the two of us, we had forged a very, very special relationship. Not that he didn’t love it, you know, my brother or sister, we just had a very special relationship, had a chance to kind of grow together.

Rainah Ross [00:09:44] Did your father have any special hobbies? I know you mentioned the pool.

Cordell Stokes [00:09:48] Play the pool. Oh yeah. But he also is a good question. Heavy reader of all books. He loved watching sports. He was a boxer by nature. Grew up boxing at what was then the Portland Outhwaite Center in the projects. And then he went on to become middleweight champion for West Virginia State College, another HBCU. So he was very involved with the boxing industry, both from the personal and then obviously observing it. And so he engaged me on that. Big time tennis observer and player. He played quite a bit there. And so I think those also as he got a little bit older and I’m in high school, he really got involved with tinkering around the house, building things. Had his own little wood shop down downstairs. So he was quite proficient.

Rainah Ross [00:10:55] Did you join in on any of those hobbies?

Cordell Stokes [00:10:57] I stayed away from the extra workload. I was trying to get out. I just want to know what chores I had to do. Hey, I tried to get them early, done out so I can get out and do that. Because I was an athlete, so all my years, ever since a youngster, so I was very, very high level. Basketball and football all the way through the end of high school until I decided I’d go off for basketball moving forward. So everything that I mentioned about observing, tennis, playing tennis, boxing, all of that, he taught me how to box. We would go to the gym together, box. He showed me when I was younger, so participated there. When he got into the tinkering around the house, I left that to him.

Rainah Ross [00:11:48] How did being in the public spotlight impact your family?

Cordell Stokes [00:11:53] For me in particular, because, you know, that would be a question for my sister. She has now passed on a few years back, maybe about eight years or so ago. My brother, being older, he had not- He actually departed our home in New York very early on to move to California. So he wasn’t really around at that time. But for me, from a public standpoint, with my uncle, who was still in Congress at the time, he was a second father to me. So when it came to politics, I spent quite a bit of time with him. So when the two of us would get together, I would fly to D.C. or Cleveland and join him for whatever political activities he had. Both of them made it a very clear point to me, particularly again with my uncle. He and I had a very special relationship, despite he having four children who were much older. I was the youngest of everyone. But between the three of us, my uncle, my father and I, we had a very, very special relationship. And it was very important to them to make sure that I understood that what they did in their political career, that doesn’t mean it’s a green path for you personally, that I would have to develop my own talents, identify where I wanted to go, and then pursue it accordingly. So in answer to your question, humbleness is number one. Number two, never better than anyone. Just because we’re running around here, people recognize, Stokes this, Stokes that. That’s what we did. You have to figure out what you’re going to do to make your mark. And so it was very easy for me, and it continues on today. You know, just the only thing I have to do is represent well, that’s all.

Rainah Ross [00:13:52] How involved was the family and your father’s political career?

Cordell Stokes [00:13:56] Well, external family in particular, you know, was very involved. You know, my brother and my sister, we were very young. My brothers were 10 years older and eight years older, so they weren’t heavily involved, but they would be, obviously at various occasions. But our external family members were very involved. The older ones. And of course, my mother would be with him as his spouse.

Rainah Ross [00:14:23] Do you have any funny family stories involving your father?

Cordell Stokes [00:14:29] Well, there’s quite a few, but there’s one I just told my wife about. It revolves around tennis. The two of us, we actually. He took me down to Jamaica, friends of his who also were tennis players, and he was trying to get me into tennis where he would get a sponsor. I had sponsors looking at me, but I wasn’t mentally ready. I was basketball, football. So we traveled down there, and this is a time that he wanted to showcase me to one of his friends who had money and had invited him down there. So we were playing doubles, and at this time, it was time for me to serve. So he was at the neck, if you know, tennis, and it went up to serve. And I was a good tennis player. I mean, he wouldn’t try and parlay me to someone if I didn’t have the skills. And, boy, that boy hit him in the behind. You should see. I mean, you can already imagine when you looking up front and that ball came in there, hit him in his behind. Boy, I think we shut the whole game down. But he had to get me off the court. So that’s a good one for you right there.

Rainah Ross [00:15:52] How did your father influence your aspirations as a child?

Cordell Stokes [00:15:56] I mean, every level. I mean, first, from an educational standpoint of teaching me four very important Black individuals that I had to learn. Learned maybe as soon as I could start reading and comprehending his discussion. He always talked to me as an adult, like the kiddie stuff. And that was Paul Robeson, Toussaint L’Ouverture. You familiar with Toussaint? We just lost the Haitian president, of course, Martin Luther King. And then going back to the local John O. Holly.

Rainah Ross [00:16:36] Could you tell us about your career?

Cordell Stokes [00:16:39] Well, my career. Well, the pandemic shut down the greater portion of it, unfortunately. But for the majority of my years up until the pandemic, the name of my company is called CLC Stokes Consulting Group, which stands for Carl, Louis, and Cordell. I named it after them. I started in 2015, in September 30, 2015, my son’s birthday, and my uncle had just died the month before. And so my firm is a mix. The services that I offer are a mix of my expertise, which entails government relations, business development, talking about corporate business development, corporate business expansion, helping companies expand their services into the west coast, primarily Las Vegas, L.A., Houston and Phoenix, and then government relations. I said government relations, business development, workforce development, business extension.

Rainah Ross [00:17:51] How has your father influenced the person you are today.

Cordell Stokes [00:17:55] He would take a combination of everything we said. But my uncle played an even greater part because he was with me throughout the formation of my career, starting in my career up until the time he died in 2015 at 90 years of age. So from 1990, 1994 to 2015, he played a very critical role. My dad died in 1996.

Rainah Ross [00:18:24] Okay, now we’re going to move into some questions surrounding your father’s career.

Cordell Stokes [00:18:28] Sure.

Rainah Ross [00:18:30] So could you describe your father’s career?

Cordell Stokes [00:18:33] Well, started out, as I stated in the projects, and then was able to get through college, law school. And then he was a liquor inspector at one time in which he and another gentleman, a very good friend of his, Eddie Payne, they would travel around into Canton and other areas to help break up liquor establishments at this time, then into the prosecutor’s office. He was a lawyer. They started my father start their own law practice. Then ultimately, as I stated earlier, civil rights was the big movement. He was very supportive and engaged, but he saw a different opportunity as a state legislator that he figured that the one way to make a big change in the dynamics for minorities would be to use Black political power to take over City Hall, meaning get elected as mayor. Now you’re the chief executive of the city, eighth largest at that time. Now you can mandate things, hiring policies. For his standpoint, he was the one that established the EEO department, so Equal Employment Opportunity. So now that’s the big thing here that provides. It gives a foundation for creating a diverse business environment, hiring environment, etc. From there, he subsequently became the first Black anchor of a major news network, which is at New York, NBC Channel 4. And then from there proceeded to return home and start a law practice again in which he represented the United Auto Workers, which was very significant for an African American to be representing an organization of that sort. And then he went on to run for judge, became a municipal judge, and then subsequently was appointed in 1994 as Ambassador to the Seychelles Islands under Bill Clinton, in which within about a year and a half, that’s when he died after his appointment. So very diverse. He’s been elected at every level, judicial, state, executive level. And as an ambassador, not elected, but appointed.

Rainah Ross [00:21:13] Once you became of came of age. What did you think of your father’s time as mayor?

Cordell Stokes [00:21:18] Well, any reflection, I mean, at that time, during prior to my graduation, he was completing his second book, Promises of Power Then and now. His first book in the ’70s was Promises of Power, Promises of Power Then and Now, which was probably produced, I think about 1986, gave a reflection since City hall up until that day of ’86. So, I mean, when I look back, it’s just a phenomenal career that still today resonates throughout America.

Rainah Ross [00:22:00] Prior to your father being elected, many newspapers portrayed him with fearful rhetoric. One newsletter when, as far as to say, dictatorship in Cleveland. Preview of Stokes and MLK as mayor. Do you want MLK and his discipline disciples running your city? Where do you think he got the strength to stand up to these attitudes?

Cordell Stokes [00:22:19] That’s a very interesting question. You know, I’ve had some very intense interviews, but that question right there, I’m glad you brought that up. Number one, Martin Luther King was his idol and Martin Luther King was doing the right thing. But as my father would always say, because I preach nonviolent, doesn’t mean I’m nonviolent. Right, but you’re not going. What he used to reference a lot of times in some of his speeches is all you had to do is during that time and even prior to what white America could do to a class of people that become disorderly, you can look at from the foundation of America, from Indians, the Indian Trail on up to any other point in time. And so King and that distinguishing characteristic by the reporter, that’s one of the things that my father probably did not receive a standing ovation from King followers is because he wanted to create some distance here in Cleveland. Because you have to look at and recall during 1965, ’67, the things that Dr. King was doing was not as well received up north to the point where he was almost killed in Illinois as well, you know, down south. But for the purposes of our conversation here in Cleveland, eighth largest city in the country, about a 37% black population. And with those other factors, my father felt that because after the ’66 riot of Hough, going into the 67 election, white business people felt in their minds that we get behind Carl Stokes, a Black man, we might be able to quell and offset the rioting that was transpiring in all the major cities across the country. That was what their thoughts were. I don’t think my father had any disbelief that he could never by one person control anything. But I think you can understand the ideological thought process behind it at that time by white business people and the fact that he was skilled, he had the characteristics, he was the best well known Black representative. I mean, everything he stood for legitimately, he had all the qualifications to be able to compete for that particular position. So it was not going to be a King following, nor did it, because you could even use it when he was elected that evening. Dr. King never came down. He stayed up in the room with my uncle, so he never came down. He did come into Cleveland. He played a critical part in working with other organizations to go out and register people to vote. But my father really wanted to keep a distance between them. Not for disrespect, but for the purposes that he’s trying to be elected, to set precedents, to help our people move to the next level.

Rainah Ross [00:25:40] What issues was he most passionate about?

Cordell Stokes [00:25:44] Well, obviously, housing. One of the big things. He was able to free up some HUD money and urban renewal money. Should say urban renewal money to come into the city, housing, you know, all of the issues that you could think about in the ’60s when people were still being hung, just not up here necessarily. You know, equality, you know, the ability to make sure our people had an opportunity to compete and be a part of the American dream.

Rainah Ross [00:26:20] What, in your perspective, inspired you to father to push forward?

Cordell Stokes [00:26:26] Just himself. He’s a competitive person. I think he was just like a lot of leaders, including the maker efforts. As a matter of fact, the Dick Gregory. I just saw Dick Gregory’s full documentary. You should watch that. If you didn’t. The one and only Dick Gregory. Its title just came out and I watched it, learned a greater appreciation for him, for the depthness of his involvement in the civil rights movement. He gave up everything to go down to Mississippi and work with Medgar Evers, to get shot and go on a hunger strike to do all those things and then tie in to Dr. King on the Vietnam War. With my father, it’s very similar, you know, very focused. His drive was about he’s living it, or he lived it. He saw poverty. He sees, you know, what’s going on in the neighborhood, mistreatment, the inequalities that exist. And so his drive was he wanted to do as others in his work, in his own perspective, to help people. And that was become a mayor in order to have a foundation or I should say have a platform from which to be able to help turning some of those things around.

Rainah Ross [00:27:43] Did your father ever talk about the legacy of Cleveland: NOW?

Cordell Stokes [00:27:47] Of Cleveland: NOW? Oh, yeah. I mean, that was, you know, that. I think that became one of the more disappointing factors because if you think about it, I mean, that was unheard of at that time. A black man with very wealthy white business people coming together as a consensus to put money into a fund to create recreation centers, etc. But because of the ’67 riot, Glenville riot. And the association, quote, unquote, well, he was associated with the Black nationalists, but not to the point where he was over the trying to fund them for guns or what have you. But the point is, you had J. Edgar Hoover out there with COINTELPRO and many other things that were impacting black and white existence from a law enforcement standpoint to a private citizen, public citizen, et cetera. So I think that that Cleveland Now from him, great achievement because some of those same. Some of the same entities that are still in existence and available to people in recreation centers, housing, like on South Woodland, etc. That may not have been done during his tenure had they not come to an agreement. And then with the riots and all the fallout, it became very disappointing that you lose that out because of the lack of trust and faith by the white business community based on some of the critiques from media or some of the insinuations of what he was or was not doing.

Rainah Ross [00:29:40] Many looked up to your father as a leader because of his decision to have only Black police officers patrol the Hough area during the Hough riots. Did he ever speak about this particular moment with you?

Cordell Stokes [00:29:51] Of course. I mean, there’s not much I can go through that I’m not aware of this whole thing that was a fortunate thing with both of, you know, all three of our relationships, my uncle, my father and myself, because I was more in their line of their area. Quick correction, it wasn’t Hough. Hough was ’66. It was the Glenville riots. No problem. It’s all good. The Hough riots is why the white business establishment thought he would be good to offset another riot. But the riot did take place, which was the Glenville, which is what you’re talking about from there. So your question is around, say your question.

Rainah Ross [00:30:35] Oh, did he ever speak to you about this?

Cordell Stokes [00:30:37] With the Black police case? First of all, at that time, you let white police get out there. You see, you have all the film that you need to see what they did down south and what they did in some northern areas during the riots. But for his purposes and along with the other Black leaders, it was thought that because he was connected in and other Black leaders thought it best that we remove the white police to help calm the situation. See, the white police would only, what, potentially ignite the situation, whether it’s them or it’s the Blacks that would ignite it. Whichever way, it wasn’t going to go good. So by removing that element that gave a chance that I’m not going to try and jump on you, one of mine, right. We’re all in the same neighborhood. So that helped create a quicker relay of getting down the violence and all the tension that was transpiring. Once we can get them out of there. And then of course, you have the National Guard there, you know, one thing after another. But the premise of the vision was set in stone and appropriate. But that also created, I think, the police union. That’s when I think the police union was developed because they said that would never happen again.

Rainah Ross [00:32:07] According to environmental historian Sylvia Hood Washington, your father’s decision to pursue public housing in green spaces in the Lee-Seville area lost in the potential of the Black middle class vote, which prompted him not to pursue being reelected. Did he ever talk about the Lee-Seville area with you?

Cordell Stokes [00:32:27] Well, the Lee-Seville area, matter of fact, you can look at there right now and where the old drive is beautiful up there, I have a couple of friends that just bought new homes up there. Now, without getting into the weeds of that one particular statement, the Lee-Seville situation had nothing to do with his desire not to run a second, a third term. At that time, you were elected every two years. Now you’re elected every four. It was a culmination of a fact of the changing dynamic based on with the rioting and all of the other fallout where you don’t have that infrastructural support system to continue on. You know, when you’re, it’s just like a president. When you’re elected president, you don’t have a roadmap as to how to be president. You got to get in there and get your hands dirty. And you know you’re going through ups and downs, right? You learn on the job. Similarly, you think 1967, 1969, very tumultuous time frame. Still, you have that riot take place now you have just dynamics changing all around. Some things are when you have a hostile city council because even though you have a strong mayoral system here, you still can’t just automatically, just like president, even though they have a full democratic majority in Congress and only a very slim majority in the Senate with the vice president being the determining vote, President Biden can’t go out there and just say we’re doing the infrastructure deal at $20 trillion, I don’t care what anyone said, we can’t just do that. So for him, with Stanton, who was the city council president and others, he had a very, he had a very adverse city council to work with. So being able to accomplish things are tough. And that’s why today, 50-plus years later, you see a lot of congressional Senate people just like our own Senator Portman stepping away from the political process when it becomes just too tenuous. ’Cause politics is about negotiation.

Rainah Ross [00:34:50] How did the issues he cared about over time change or change over time?

Cordell Stokes [00:34:56] I don’t think you have to remember again, we’re going back to his life was short. He died at 69. So when he was elected mayor, I think at 40, 42, right around that area, you know, he’s had, you know, maybe since mayor, all those issues stayed relevant up to 1996 for him. There wasn’t really much room for him to change by ’96 because there was still a lot of stuff to be done.

Rainah Ross [00:35:28] Was he involved in civil rights or environmental justice issues after he was mayor?

Cordell Stokes [00:35:34] Well, civil rights never goes away because, you know, I mean, just as a topic, civil rights covers a myriad of topics. Black political power was a- a vision and a goal to attain something in order to help change the dynamic. But it’s still civil rights. Right. Because it gave them a chance to start the EEO and other items. Environmental. Very interesting. That’s something that I just had breakfast with the president of University Circle, a good friend of mine, Chris Romaine, and we were talking about that when my father was elected in ’67, unlike most mayors, when they were elected, he developed an international platform because of the significance, right, of his mayoral election. So because he had that platform based on that type of election, he parlayed it to deal with our lake. Now, the lake had caught fire many times prior to him coming in, but the last time was significant because now he was able to shift his gears and focus on environment. And so that’s how everything started to drive itself to where he was able to push media and other outside leadership, internal leadership, to focus in on the environment, the river and all those other elements associated or that support or benefit from a sustainable river and all the life that comes from it. From there, in the early ’70s. And now my uncle was elected Congress in ’68 and entered in office in ’69. So while he’s in in Capitol Hill, my father in the city as mayor, they were able to help further push and advocate for the establishment of the EPA, Environmental Protection Administration, which would be your governmental protection entity, and then help push for the Clean Water Act, which was subsequently adopted. And all are relevant and have, have a, well under the last administration with Trump, many of those EPA regulations that were to the benefit of trying to be prepared and address many of the climate issues were pulled back. And I spoke about that a couple of years ago at the conference we talked about earlier, and all the rollbacks. But now under Biden, some of those things could continue on or be enhanced.

Rainah Ross [00:38:26] Were there any historical events that had a significant impact on your father?

Cordell Stokes [00:38:32] Well, several. Now, how do you want to say, impact from West End? Just a personal or business, political, I mean, or just any culmination.

Rainah Ross [00:38:44] Any.

Cordell Stokes [00:38:46] Okay. Paul Robeson, he said. Are you familiar with Paul?

Rainah Ross [00:38:52] Not really.

Cordell Stokes [00:38:54] You should look that up. He’s one of the four. Paul Robeson was an academic, a high-level athlete, artistic, one of the best in movies and plays. And this was at Rutgers University. And then of course, later on, the FBI as well as Hollywood tried to deem him a communist. And he suffered quite a bit, both within the world that he had grown within to achieve great prominence, gets knocked down, but also he had a lot of difficulty within his own people and subsequently was left to move to Europe and get out of. He was basically almost outcasted from America. That type of incident, obviously, Dr. King’s shooting was very significant to him. I think those are two things I could bring up that I think would be kind of relevant for today.

Rainah Ross [00:40:10] What professional accomplishment was your father most proud of?

Cordell Stokes [00:40:15] Well, I think in his, you know, I think his grave site on his marker, it says he fought, never gave up, may not have won, but fought the good fight. So it’s a culmination of everything that he’s accomplished.

Rainah Ross [00:40:38] Do you think he had any major regrets?

Cordell Stokes [00:40:42] Well, I think in his. I mean, because of the nature of politics and things, I think that there are some things that he would have enjoyed trying to do. Maybe he would have liked to have been mayor longer under certain circumstances. Maybe he would have wanted to run for mayor, which was speculated when we first returned. He probably- I know one of the things that he would not have wanted to grow up poor, you know, but he was glad for the family.

Rainah Ross [00:41:17] What do you think your father’s legacy is?

Cordell Stokes [00:41:21] Being able to talk to you still today in 2021, and you having the conservatory and entities like the conservatory still drawing the interest, wanting to learn more, wanting to continue to uphold his name, incorporate his leadership from a spiritual standpoint through Cleveland.

Rainah Ross [00:41:51] Is there anything you think public historians get wrong about your father’s legacy?

Cordell Stokes [00:41:57] I mean, there’s always going to be a few things, but we can just stay with one. He didn’t buy those guns for the Black nationalists. How about that? I think that you could speculate. They never came up with any specific documentation showing the transaction, but I think that’s one area. I think what happened by the portrayal, it did more damage by reducing the opportunity for him to continue on the leadership, to move the city forward by some of those things. And then the city council, you know, when you have an adverse, racist oriented city council led by Stanton at the time, it’s a. You know, it did more damage, just like with Trump. I mean, all the progress. Now we’re back to almost pre-1960, back in the fight.

Rainah Ross [00:43:02] A quote from your father reads, it is a lot easier to get the people in Parma and Shaker Heights and Lakewood and even the President of the United States concerned about pollution than about hunger. Carl was clearly mindful about the different concerns experienced by people of different areas, even though he viewed issues like the Cuyahoga River as collectively meaningful to all. Would you like to speak to this?

Cordell Stokes [00:43:26] Okay, say it one more time.

Rainah Ross [00:43:29] It is a lot easier to get the people in Parma and Shaker Heights, in Lakewood and even the President of the United States concerned about pollution than about hunger. Your father was clearly mindful about the different concerns experienced by people of different areas, even though he viewed issues like the Cuyahoga River as collectively meaningful to all.

Cordell Stokes [00:43:49] Yeah, that’s what I just wanted to make sure I heard you correct. When he represented again, right now you have more people that look like us living in Lakewood, even in Parma. But we’re talking about back then, that’s totally different, right? And even me growing up, it was- We didn’t go to the west side and the flats was with police. Police used to try and jump on us sometimes down there. So I’ve been a part of that back in the ’80s in the flats, which is the medium between east and west. He is very correct, especially at this time, because white folks, at that time, there was already a big distinguishing marker between quote, unquote, normal whites and poor whites. Poor whites were outcasts. They were seen beneath the blacks, you know, more beneath the Blacks. With his statement, it is true they were more focused in something like pollution would have been more, you know, readily understood than hunger to them. Because the majority of whites at that time, minus the poor ones, had privilege. We were still drinking from separate water fountains and other things. So I would concur with that statement. Specifically, at that time,

Rainah Ross [00:45:26] How do you view your father’s influence on the passing of national acts like the Clean Water Act of 1972 and the Clean Air Act of 1970?

Cordell Stokes [00:45:36] I forgot about the Clean Air Act, too, that was another one, but I think very important. First of all, it’s unfortunate to see, like me living in the west coast for so long, Las Vegas and Phoenix, we’re used to 100°, 110°. But right now the heat is just off the charts. You have people dying in the state of Washington. We had people dying years ago up in Chicago because of lack of air conditioning when the heat waves were changing. Cleveland has not seen winters like it was when we were growing up. Things have changed. You’re seeing the erosion of the west coast in which I remember even being in school when our teachers used to say, you’re going to see it later than now. That parts of California, California going to start going into the sea because of this and that. All of it relevant to environment. Look at what’s transpiring at North and South Pole with the ice and the temperatures and the migration habits changing various fish and marine life. So all of this is around the tip. We only have one planet. We have an increase of people even from where my father was elected. While the city might have been 8th largest city in the country and where we are today, where we’re not even on the map, population, you know, high up in the ranks, we have more people today than ever before in the world. And so there are certain needs that have been talked about going back to my father and maybe even before about things. Clean Water Act, Clean Air Act, the EPA, the need to establish different guidelines so that we could have these protections here. So I think he was right on point.

Rainah Ross [00:47:42] Okay, I’m going to ask you a few questions about your father’s relationship with his brother.

Cordell Stokes [00:47:46] Sure.

Rainah Ross [00:47:48] How would you describe Congressman Louis Stokes?

Cordell Stokes [00:47:51] That’s my man. First of all, from me, he is hilarious. He is the most enjoying of a good time and conversation and jokes and what have you. Very loving. His family. He loves all of his family. I’m not talking about just as a medium. He loved his family. Very, very astute, very academic, street smart, but more academic. My father was more a real street guy with the academics. However, when it gets into business now, he was a litigator, obviously, you know, very proficient, been to the Supreme Court on several levels several times and then won. But in particular, he was very serious when it got down to the business at hand as it dealt with issues relevant to our people and health care and all other areas. But health care, housing, business access, equitable platform, those are core areas of his leadership throughout his years. Veterans, things of that sort.

Rainah Ross [00:49:14] What would you say are some similarities or differences between your uncle and your father?

Cordell Stokes [00:49:21] Differences is that my father was political. My uncle was not. My uncle transitioned into a politician, not willingly but he did because of the cause. That’s a big difference there. Another difference, you’ll find my father in some of the darker areas of the street where you won’t find my uncle. And he’ll be very comfortable where you find. That’s another difference. Now on the flip side, similarities, both leadership qualities had the same focus about the way they grew up. They knew they wanted to make a change. My uncle was very, very involved with Martin Luther King and providing legal services for people going to jail and other civil rights oriented areas a lot more than what my dad was because my dad was more in politics, you know, so he had a different track. My father did love his family, his entire family as well. But my uncle really embraced it. You know, he stayed in touch, you know, all the way up until he died. Every time we have a family making sure to call people and my father would do something like that, he to the next level. Another thing would be his work ethic. You’re not going to catch them sleeping. You want to catch them up in the morning and trying to figure out what they can do to have something of substance accomplished for the day and whatever that may be. Let me see. Sports-wise, they both enjoyed sports, watching sports and as a matter of fact, I’ll tell you that they also got along very well with other individuals. They could work across party lines. My uncle in particular in Congress had built a very long standing relationship. But also awareness by others that Lou Stokes works crossed lines with Barry, with some deep, deep, religiously bigoted legislators at the time. But they had some good relationship, whatever he did with him.

Rainah Ross [00:52:00] Could you talk more about their relationship with each other family wise and professionally?

Cordell Stokes [00:52:05] It was thick as thieves. They were just like any other brotherly relationship. They fought, but they always loved one another, had their differences. They talked every day just about. They were dependent upon when another’s existence. And as an example, best example I could use is when my dad died. That’s when aside from the fact that Newt Gingrich came into office, my uncle was really starting to tire from politics because he didn’t have the loyalty that existed with my dad and he didn’t have my dad to reach out to and talk to on issues that, you know, when you’re out here politically that you want to have a confidant and he was that confidant of trust.

Rainah Ross [00:52:59] What do you think was your uncle’s biggest accomplishment?

Cordell Stokes [00:53:03] Oh, shoot. Retiring three times. I think he retired from Congress. Then he retired from Squire Sanders and then let me see, he got on the board of Forest City, I think it is. And then he retired off of that. And then Squire, Sanders and Dempsey, he ended up retiring from there. So I think his biggest accomplishment was to be able to, and this is all seriousness, to actually make money, which is something we never had. The real theme for our family between the two is not rags to riches because we didn’t have money. It was poverty to power. Now, with my uncle having longevity and the type of career he did, his 30 years in Congress, he was able to come out of Congress and then eventually get in a position to make some money, to be able to try and take care of his wife a little bit more of a life that he would like to have her, have her kids, you know, their kids, I should say, loved his grandkids, Eric, Brett, Alex, all of them. He was very close to them. But I think his biggest accomplishment is the everything that he was able to accomplish, like the Terry v. Ohio situation, which has every college student, law student, has to learn about the case that my uncle was able to win at the Supreme Court. Now you have a congressional battle here with Chantel, Nina Turner and others. Those are the two frontrunners for the seat that he created. Legally, he had to take that litigation to the Supreme Court in order to create the 21st congressional district. Now, that vision, that district was to be created for my father to run for Congress, but when they lost the first round, he ended up becoming mayor. So when the Supreme Court ended up bringing down the ruling that they would create the district, he told my uncle that, hey, I’m mayor. He said, you run for it, you litigated it. And he did. And so 30 years, we had a majority minority district that could now elect a black person. That’s still today. But now, you know, things have changed dramatically, population wise.

Rainah Ross [00:55:42] This is a pretty similar question, but what do you think your uncle’s legacy is?

Cordell Stokes [00:55:47] Uh, oh, being a gentleman. And the title of his book that he rushed to get done before he died was the Gentleman from Ohio. And someone that can be called, someone that can be trusted and counted on by the state and city.

Rainah Ross [00:56:10] Okay, now I’m going to ask you some questions about the outdoors and the environment.

Cordell Stokes [00:56:14] Sure.

Rainah Ross [00:56:15] How did you experience nature as a child?

Cordell Stokes [00:56:18] Oh, I mean, playing football, you always out there. We had a place called Van Cortlandt Park, and that was one of the larger parks out of the North Bronx. But the point is, I know what you’re talking about. So with my father, we used to go up into upstate New York. We had a cousin that lived up there and he had a cabin and. And we would go out hunting, all of that. We would travel, you know, of course, to Grand Canyon, other things. So I’ve been very engaged. And then. Oh, let me say this. My involvement would have been in camp during camp during the ’70s. Even though it was a sports camp, the camp always incorporated being able to introduce you into the wild where you, you would take time during the summer, you would stay a week in the cabin somewhere with other kids and they show you berries and you eat different things of that sort. And so it stayed with me. I’m very oriented into wild game. I’m a big health nut on all the things that the earth has to present.

Rainah Ross [00:57:34] What was your favorite thing to do outside when you were young?

Cordell Stokes [00:57:40] Outside of getting into trouble? Just be playing basketball and football. Things that normal kids would do. Because at that time, you know, you had to leave the home, you know, after you had your breakfast and all. There’s no need for you to be staying around here. But you know, obviously things have changed.

Rainah Ross [00:57:58] What’s your favorite thing to do outside now?

Cordell Stokes [00:58:01] I don’t play sports anymore. Probably hang out, drink beer with the fellas. Then we can talk old war stories. [crosstalk] What we used to do 40 years ago. Right. We can remember a lot. But yeah, from that update now, swimming. Now I’m a big swimmer. So we do go to Lake Erie quite a bit. We have, between my stepbrother and my friends, we have a boat. We have. I don’t have a boat, but a friend of ours has a boat that we regularly during the summer get on and go out and I go out to the middle of the lake and I get out in the water. So I swim because I grew up in the ocean so they think I’m crazy. But I, I like to get out there in the middle. I would do it in the ocean, but lake here, I can go way out and jump in there and hang out. So yeah, being around the beach. So everything relative to what’s being developed even more now along Lake Whiskey Island, all of that Edgewater, that’s us. 

Unknown speaker [00:59:12] It’s a great full circle story to have. Your dad really helped clean up Lake Erie and here you are swimming up. 

Cordell Stokes [] Absolutely back then. Right, right. That’s. That’s a good point. Good point.

Rainah Ross [00:59:27] What memories do you have of visiting parks with your family?

Cordell Stokes [00:59:33] Oh, let me see the beat. Let me. I can’t think of the name of the park in New York. Well, I could tell about- I could tell you over at the park in New York, Central Park. Central Park, we had a zoo. A lot of mountainous areas. I mean the park back then and probably still today, I haven’t been there in so long. But during the ’70s, early ’80s, you can go to Central Park and you felt like you were on your own. When you’re running around, I mean it was anything you want to do. I mean a lot of trees, forests, mountainous, you know, you jump all the rocks and play. The zoo was in there. I’m sure they still have a zoo. So from that standpoint, that was one area. Then the park I can’t tell you about upstate. I can’t. I can’t think of name. That was another area. The national park up there or state park always had a ball up there. That’s where we would do hunting, etc.

Rainah Ross [01:00:46] This is also another similar question. But what were some special activities you guys did as a family?

Cordell Stokes [01:00:54] Well, really with my father, you know, everything was pretty much sport related. And travel. He would come home again. I mean our special time. Of course we traveled and we would just be a regular family with my father and my sister primarily at this time and my stepbrother and stepmother at this time. So I mean we just like any other family, we used to eat. My father used to say, oh, that’s what we did. I’m sorry. Going back to equator, we used to go up into the Hamptons. Hamptons was a good place, but that was more of a beach area. But it did have some forestry around there. But yeah, just getting out and just traveling. This was in the ’70s and ’80s. It was just a time when a lot of families just got together and it was just a different era.

Rainah Ross [01:01:48] Did your father have a favorite outdoor activity?

Cordell Stokes [01:01:54] It would be being able to play tennis, softball. He used to play quite a bit of softball. He was on the NBC team. So a lot of their games were at Central Park. Tennis. He was a swimmer, but by that time after 50, he wasn’t so much. But he would get out there in the ocean with me and play football with me and all that. But that was probably just stayed right around the sport. Oh, indoor was one thing. Now outdoor, he loved to be out there working on the grass and everything else around the house.

Rainah Ross [01:02:32] Did you hear any stories about parks in the Cleveland area being formally or informally segregated?

Cordell Stokes [01:02:41] Formally, no.

Rainah Ross [01:02:44] Growing up, were the public parks where you didn’t- Were there public parks that you didn’t feel welcome?

Cordell Stokes [01:02:50] No. Good question.

Rainah Ross [01:02:53] Do you remember visiting the Cuyahoga Valley long ago or more recently?

Cordell Stokes [01:02:57] No, just more recently, what we discussed earlier. And of course we go, now, I’m sorry, I forgot about the park up there, the Metroparks up off of Miles. We used to call that- What was it called? Squaw Rock.

Rainah Ross [01:03:17] Oh, yeah.

Cordell Stokes [01:03:18] So we, when we were young, we used to spend a lot of time up there as high school kids. But a lot of that was, you know, you take a girl and go on up in there. [laughs] But we did walk around.

Erich Schnack [01:03:34] Take her to see the Mermaid Rock, right? Yep.

Cordell Stokes [01:03:38] Yeah. It’s just down there [laughs], another hundred feet. Yeah. 

Erich Schnack [01:03:44] Some things never change. 

Cordell Stokes [01:03:45] Right, right. [laughs] It just came to me. Yep.

Rainah Ross [01:03:50] Did your father ever speak about this national park?

Cordell Stokes [01:03:53] No.

Rainah Ross [01:03:56] Did your father ever talk about his views on the environmental movement?

Cordell Stokes [01:04:01] Yeah, very similar move that, it was very important. Again, by that time there was really no need to push a discussion about the environment by the time being 25 when he died or anything. But when we did have a discussion, I remember there was a discussion. Where was it? Over at Woodhill Park. Every Labor Day we started a parade that goes down Kinsman to Woodhill and it still is on today. But I’m talking about during the 30 years of my uncle’s service. That was the real crux and heyday. And I do recall there’s a, at the bottom of Woodhill, we used to always have a camper, a trailer. And that’s where Dick Gregory, Don King, Jesse Jackson and other heavy hitters, depending on the year. But this one particular year, I do remember there was some sort of event the night before that was relative to the work my dad had done as mayor for the river. So I’m going back to- I remember this was probably about maybe ’79, 1980, because we weren’t here just yet. I remember we flew in from New York and he had to. I didn’t go with him. But that night before, he had been recognized for some of the work he did for the river. I do remember one of the individuals congratulating him on that. And then you can hear the discussion. Yeah, the river was this or that. You know, they had a short, brief discussion. So that was about the extent of that. My uncle and I, a little bit more because, you know, that was more in line as I grew as a professional.

Rainah Ross [01:06:01] Historians David and Richard Stradling wrote that your father was not a self-identifying environmentalist, but instead focused on issues that could be considered environmental because of their effects on people. Did the Stradlings get that right?

Cordell Stokes [01:06:15] I think that’s fair because there are questions that are posed to me, like, was this a concept of your dad to just go right after approaching the lake as an issue and what have you. Now I can’t say ultimately definitively that he didn’t have an agenda that started somewhere that he wanted to attack and address the issue at the river. But to date I’ve not had any of his people who have died off now, but who used to regularly speak with. No one has ever really brought up anything other than the work he did to support the enhancement of the river. And never like con member Carl told me he was going to have that as a platform issue. And do that never hurt him. No one has ever brought that. So I would have to agree with the journalist’s view because I cannot pinpoint, nor have I spoken with anyone that can pinpoint how did that actually derive as an issue. What I do say is that as he got in the position and the fire transpiring, that obviously it is of concern to him and he took it as it needed to be taken.

Rainah Ross [01:07:40] Your father was outspoken about what he saw as hypocrisy. In congressional testimony in 1970, he attacked Richard Nixon for approving an Alaskan pipeline days after the first Earth Day. Do you consider your dad an environmentalist or more of a critic of the movement?

Cordell Stokes [01:07:56] Okay, so [inaudible], he also praised him, praised Nixon for what he did on housing, which was more than any other Democratic thing. But the point is, on your question, you’re saying that the congressional testimony 1970 referenced his critique against Nixon. On Nixon’s critique about the development of the Alaska pipeline, or what was it?

Rainah Ross [01:08:25] The approving the Alaskan pipeline.

Cordell Stokes [01:08:28] Okay, so my father was a critic of him approving it. Did he say why?

Rainah Ross [01:08:36] I’m not sure.

Cordell Stokes [01:08:37] Okay.

Erich Schnack [01:08:38] He basically said that it was hypocritical to approve a pipeline short days after Earth Day. I made that question in there. 

Cordell Stokes [01:08:48] Oh, did it? Okay, yeah, I’m not familiar with that reference. Do you have an idea why he might have said that? Was there any other additional information? In the comparison and contrast of Earth Day and the pipeline. 

Erich Schnack [01:09:02] He found that constructing a pipeline and being enthusiastic about a pipeline, the text suggested that he thought that that was hypocritical and that by doing that and constructing the pipeline, you were making a mockery out of Earth Day. Or at least that’s how I read it in the biography. 

Cordell Stokes [01:09:29] Okay, well, at that said, what I could say is, well, I guess it’s almost like what we just faced where Biden had to halt the development of the pipeline across some of the Indian lands. Once he got in the administration because of the thoughts about some of the environmental concerns. I don’t know during that time how diligent environmental regulate regular environmental regulatory policies were. Obviously we didn’t have, that was 1970, was this comment from? So you had Clean Water Act in what, ’72 or ’71, where ’72 was the- [crosstalk] 

Erich Schnack [01:10:16] Clean Air Act.

Cordell Stokes [01:10:17] ’70 was what? 

Erich Schnack [01:10:20] Clean Water Act. 

Cordell Stokes [01:10:21] Clean Water Act. Okay. And then you had the EPA actually get established. When? What was that about ’73, ’74? 

Erich Schnack [01:10:30] I think ’74. [crosstalk] Don’t quote me on that. 

Cordell Stokes [01:10:33] Right. Okay. I think we’re trying to- So my thing would be, okay, if you’re standing for Earth Day and what it’s meant to be, you have a president support the Alaska pipelines because now you’re talking about oil and depending upon how those pipelines are configured. Now I know I have two good friends who originated from Cleveland and were engineers on the pipeline and who have letters of congratulation from my uncle on their walk in Vegas. So if he’s taking a perspective. And of course we don’t know for sure. I’m just assuming that as a mayor supporting environmental causes of protection for environment, depending upon how those pipelines were conceived and ultimately approved to be built, if there was not enough due diligence and he might have had some information that there might have been some potential harm because of a lack of due diligence, then maybe that might be the critique. That’s the only thing I could say potentially. But you guys are digging deep. I see that. [laughs] You guys are digging deep. Good. 

Erich Schnack [01:11:52] When I read that, I thought to myself, that’s just such a visionary thing to say for your father. I mean, I guess personally until reading that, I didn’t realize that people could be so outspoken about things like a pipeline back in, you know, your father’s day, it really seemed to be relevant. 

Cordell Stokes [01:12:13] Well, you educated me on that and so I appreciate you. I’m with you on that because it was environment outside of probably the Indian tribes and those that you know were real enthusiasts around activists around environment. Those were. That was not really pursuing as the main issue of concern for minorities. Right. So I guess that is in a sense some of the visionary standpoint. That’s where we go back to how did he get so engaged? Which we can’t really put our whole finger on. But I can tell you this. You know, there’s a good point. When you grow up like he did and obviously people worse when they grew up on 69th Street, you know, when you have rats and all that kind of stuff in the home and you have non functioning necessary things such as clean water or ability to heat and protect yourself, living, you know, everybody’s sleeping on one bed or something. And then you get an opportunity to transition to the first public housing being built, which is the projects down there, we called it. But when those were developed, they had a little garden in front, running water, heat. You didn’t have rats and roaches. Now, those projects then, that was when it was pristine. Now again, so maybe, and I’ve said this before, another potentially what he envisioned and saw and lived, he knew that must be better whatever else, because, you know, you had the depression around there. So you don’t know whether him my uncle and others during that time really saw and what things really, really caught his eye on what he wanted to do. [01:14:03] Maybe he did want to do something on environment and just the opportunity presented itself. But it’s a civil rights issue. 

Erich Schnack [01:14:13] Absolutely. 

Cordell Stokes [01:14:14] So, I mean, that’s another thing. It definitely was a civil rights issue. Clean water and all of that. So.

Rainah Ross [01:14:23] Both Carl and Louis Stokes played important roles in cleaning up the Cuyahoga River and Lake Erie. Do you remember them talking about this?

Cordell Stokes [01:14:31] No, just other than what I alluded to earlier about that. But that was really my father pushing that in the initial and of course my uncle back then.

Rainah Ross [01:14:40] What policy issues did they agree on or disagree on?

Cordell Stokes [01:14:47] I’m trying to think. There was. It was one political issue I remember Well, I wish I could think about what it was. I don’t know when they disagreed, it was something. So, I mean, I won’t be tell you all of them, but there was one political thing that there was a disagreement on. We were living in New York and my father had to come back here to Cleveland, which we would often do to support because we had the Black Caucus and all that here. The Congressional Caucus was very. I mean, the 21st Congressional District Caucus was very popular in America. And so there’s a lot of policies, politics going on. I can’t really answer that for you. If it comes to me, something specific, I’ll give it to you. 

Rainah Ross [01:15:45] Okay. Largely because of your father’s public tours and testimonies, the Cuyahoga River is now a symbol of the environmental movement. Is anyone else in your family involved in environmental justice issues now?

Cordell Stokes [01:15:57] Well, my cousin Chucky, my uncle’s son, only son, he worked with me during the conference on that. Now he’s a newscaster, where he’s a- I don’t want to call him a newscaster because he has. He’s an executive with the firm, but he has his own show. I don’t know the work that he does as it relates to potential promotion or pursuit of stories relevant to it. All the other family members, I pretty much say I’ve not seen them engaged like I have been, but I have a different type of business model than all the others. You know, the others are all in news. Me, you know, I represent firms that do green sustainability and then work in environments like Las Vegas where the casinos are big proponents and advocates for sustainability and all the environmental issues that come with it.

Rainah Ross [01:17:05] Have you been involved in park-related issues in your own career? Park -related issues in your career?

Cordell Stokes [01:17:13] What is that? Populated?

Rainah Ross [01:17:16] Park-related.

Cordell Stokes [01:17:17] Oh, park-related. Oh, I’m sorry. Not so much park-related issues, but issues around sustainability and the environment.

Rainah Ross [01:17:30] You and Chuck Stokes participated in the regional Cuyahoga 50 celebration back in 2019. Describe how you became involved.

Cordell Stokes [01:17:40] Well, we were requested by different entities and local officials to get engaged.

Rainah Ross [01:17:48] And what did you do?

Cordell Stokes [01:17:50] I know we did a presentation, a joint presentation down at the Nautica in which we kind of characterized both of our parents involvement in pushing for the clean air, you know, all things rather than. Then I gave a speech my own self the next day downtown. Mayor Jackson, myself, we had the Ohio EPA director here. And so I spoke at that in which I had discussed all the rollbacks of the president at the time, the pluses and minus, minuses and those things that we need to be pushing forward as a collective in the industry.

Rainah Ross [01:18:38] What did it mean to represent your father’s legacy?

Cordell Stokes [01:18:43] Well, it always means a lot to me because in my mind at least I can speak to it at a high level of competency because they both took the time to make sure what I didn’t know. I had good enough information. And then I was engaged with them at every level. I was in the room, as they say, of a lot of stuff. And so I was able to digest and be able to proceed.

Rainah Ross [01:19:10] What did it mean to other family members who were also at the celebration?

Cordell Stokes [01:19:15] I think just Chucky and I just the two of us were there and then my wife, now my wife Teresa, she’s born and raised in East Cleveland. And so she really likes, you know, East Cleveland has gone through a lot of turmoil around there environmentally and the like. And you know, East Cleveland was one of the most prominent cities in the country, not just in Cleveland.

Rainah Ross [01:19:44] And lastly, is there anything else you like to tell us?

Cordell Stokes [01:19:48] No. I mean one of the things that. Well, first of all, thank you to both of you and Ranger Rebecca in the conservatory overall for continuing to make this push. Because just like when we talk about civil rights issue up until the Trump administration. And of course this is not a Republican or Democratic thing. This is just about who he is when he was president and what he did under his administration to attack everything that had been built up over the many, many years environmentally through regulations, legislation, etc. To try and prepare a world that could sustain itself. I mean, just. But to have people like himself and others to not have an ability to understand and be so adverse. I mean, you just have to understand that this world cannot sustain itself. I mean, time and time again, you know that you have to do things in order to counter trash and the omission, etc. So for the conservative standpoint, from a local. I’m so happy to see that there is an anxiety of not only this organization, but multiple organizations to look at Cleveland as a beacon of having took the lead to be able to be on the front line of these issues so that our children and children’s children can hopefully have, have an environment where they can breathe good air. Because even up until recently, I mean, in L.A., there’s times you can’t even see the mountains and then you have- I remember here in Cleveland at one time when I would come back and travel in, you had an advisory level. Just like in Phoenix or Vegas, we would have an advisory level, you know, of the, of the air content. That’s for a reason. So I commend you all and I’m glad to be a part of it. I’m here to help support you all.

Rainah Ross [01:22:07] Are there any family photos that you’d like to share of you guys being outside and doing outdoor activities that we’d be able to scan?

Cordell Stokes [01:22:16] Oh, shoot those, those photos right there. Those are some old. Yeah, there’s some old photos that would be- it would be difficult to probably scan. Let me try to take a little time to. What kind of timeframe are you looking for?

Rainah Ross [01:22:32] Any time.

Erich Schnack [01:22:33] Your timeframe. Yeah. No rush at all. 

Cordell Stokes [01:22:36] Yeah. Let me see what I might be able to find, maybe over the weekend, take a look in the cupboard and see what we have. 

Erich Schnack [01:22:45] That’d be fantastic. Thank you so much. 

Cordell Stokes [01:22:47] No, it’s my pleasure. Thank you very much. Anything else?

Rainah Ross [01:22:52] If we have more questions, are you willing to do a follow up interview?

Cordell Stokes [01:22:56] Absolutely.

Rainah Ross [01:22:58] That’s the end. Thank you so much for talking to us.

Cordell Stokes [01:23:00] Well, thank you very much.

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