Abstract
Heidi Barham grew up in the Lee Harvard area. Her doctors’ were in the historic Robert Madison Medical Associates building, now ThirdSpaceActionLab. Topics covered include Laurel School for Girls, Cleveland State University, Dearing’s Restaurant, East 105th Street, the importance of Black medical care, Jazz on East 6th Street and her career in hospice.
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Interviewee
Barnham, Heidi (interviewee)
Interviewer
Taffe, Jamila (interviewer); Schnack, Erich (participant)
Project
Green Book Cleveland
Date
7-2-2023
Document Type
Oral History
Duration
29 minutes
Recommended Citation
"Heidi Barham interview, 02 July 2023" (2023). Cleveland Regional Oral History Collection. Interview 723003.
https://engagedscholarship.csuohio.edu/crohc000/1452
Transcript
Jamila Taffe [00:00:00] Well, thank you for participating in this oral history. My name is Mila, and over here we have Erich, who is our tech person, and then we have Heidi here with us today. So I just want to give, like, a short preface that oral histories may explore topics that could elicit strong emotions. While we do not want to avoid hard subjects like racial discrimination, we want you to feel comfortable letting us know if you want to decline a question, change topics, or end the interview at any point without judgment on our part. So we’re just going to start off with some background questions just to get to know you a little bit better. What is your full name?
Heidi Barham [00:00:41] My name is Heidi Barham.
Jamila Taffe [00:00:45] All right. And what year were you born?
Heidi Barham [00:00:48] 1964.
Jamila Taffe [00:00:51] So tell us about your family growing up?
Heidi Barham [00:00:54] So I was raised by a single mom here in the city of Cleveland, and we moved to Shaker when I was 12. But my grandparents were also here in Cleveland, and we were in the Lee Harvard area. I was her only child, so I didn’t grow up- I have two brothers that I met later in life, but very family-oriented. So I would adopt brothers and sisters from my friends who lived in the neighborhood, many of whom I’m still close to today.
Jamila Taffe [00:01:31] And your two brothers?
Heidi Barham [00:01:32] Older brother. One of each. Okay, yeah, one of each. My younger brother passed away, unfortunately, but my older brother lives out in Washington State.
Jamila Taffe [00:01:44] All right, and how did your mom specifically, specifically come to live in Cleveland or Northeast Ohio?
Heidi Barham [00:01:50] So her parents were residents of Cleveland? My grandmother was born here. My grandfather was born here, moved to Virginia with family, and then came back when he was 5 years old. And so they were- She was raised here her entire life.
Jamila Taffe [00:02:08] And before you moved to Shaker Heights right? Where did you live before that?
Heidi Barham [00:02:14] We lived on a street called Invermere. Yeah, Right at the. Literally two houses from the border of Warrensville. So if you walk across the street, you went into a whole different city.
Jamila Taffe [00:02:26] And what was your neighborhood like when you were growing up?
Heidi Barham [00:02:31] It was very family oriented. We were close with all our neighbors. That was back in the day when kids would play outside till dark. They knew when it was time to come in. We didn’t have cell phones or pagers. You just knew when the street lights came on, it was time to go home. And if it was a little late, my mom would come to the side door, call my name really loud, and I better be within hearing range so that I could get back as soon as she started calling.
Jamila Taffe [00:03:02] And so what kind of work did your mom do growing up?
Heidi Barham [00:03:06] She was a teacher. She taught At John Adams High School.
Jamila Taffe [00:03:09] Has that influenced you in any type of way?
Heidi Barham [00:03:12] Absolutely. Growing up, I did not want to be a teacher. And then when I got much older, I ended up being a teacher at a university. So it came full circle. But both my parents were actually English teachers.
Jamila Taffe [00:03:29] And speaking of teaching, where did you go to school?
Heidi Barham [00:03:33] So that’s an interesting story. I started out at Adlai Stevenson Elementary School, and I went there for the first three years, kindergarten, first and second grade. And then I transferred to Gracemount Elementary, which has since been torn down, where they had a major work program, for lack of a better word, for gifted and talented students. They had the major work program. And so I went there third through sixth grade, and then we moved and went to Laurel School for girls for one year. Total culture shock. Did not have the most enjoyable experience there and begged my mom, please let me go to the Shaker schools. So I went to Byron Junior High school for eighth and ninth grade, and then Shaker Heights High School.
Jamila Taffe [00:04:23] Okay, so what was the experience at Laurel schools for girls? Like, why was that?
Heidi Barham [00:04:28] So for me, when I say it was a culture shock. The neighborhood I grew up in, the schools I had gone to were predominantly African American. At that time, Laurel had, I think, 650 students total from the kindergarten through the 12th grade. It was not a girls school, and only 24 of those students were Black. And I was there on scholarship. Many of the other girls were not. And so just that whole difference in, you know, growing up living in inner city. Well, technically not inner city, but outer edge of Cleveland. And my experience there was vastly different. And so, you know, they. Most of them had gone to the school since kindergarten. I was a newer kid coming in, in seventh grade. And it’s very different.
Jamila Taffe [00:05:22] Yeah. So not just, like, the race, but the economic situation?
Heidi Barham [00:05:26] Yeah.
Jamila Taffe [00:05:26] So where did you go to college?
Heidi Barham [00:05:31] So I started at Case. I was encouraged to go there for the engineering program because I was an African American female with an aptitude for math and science. And so my guidance counselor said, oh, you would be great in engineering. The only problem was I did not have a clue what engineers did and had no interest in it. But I went because that’s what the guidance counselor suggested. And so I spent my first two years at Case. I won’t say they were wasted, but it was not anything I wanted to pursue. So I dropped out of Case and decided to try to find myself. Started working in retail, eventually ended up working in banking and decided I needed to go back to school. So I ended up going to Cleveland State and finished there with my Bachelor’s in Finance. And then I went and got my MBA. And then I went to seminary several years later because I finally figured out what I wanted to be when I grew up.
Jamila Taffe [00:06:34] And what is that?
Heidi Barham [00:06:35] Retired.
Jamila Taffe [00:06:37] That is so true.
Heidi Barham [00:06:38] I felt that.
Jamila Taffe [00:06:42] So what did you do for fun as a kid?
Heidi Barham [00:06:46] As a kid, it just depended on which day it was. A lot of times we would play outside. Being my mom’s only child, I spent a lot of time reading. That was like, my love. I loved books. I could get lost in books all day, riding bikes around the neighborhood. You know, kids played together back then. It wasn’t- You know, I look now and it’s like I feel like kids miss out on so much because they’re glued to their phones and their Xboxes or whatever the current game system is. But we play with each other, you know, hide and seek and hopscotch and jump rope and jacks.
Jamila Taffe [00:07:24] Do you have any memories of East 105?
Heidi Barham [00:07:29] Actually, yeah. The building where we’re in. We spent a lot of time here because all my doctors were in this building. But also my great uncle owned a house and an apartment building around the corner from here. And then the church that I attended used to be located over on East Boulevard. So we were in this neighborhood pretty much every Sunday. And depending on who had doctor’s appointments, we were here during the week.
Jamila Taffe [00:07:58] What’s the name of the church?
Heidi Barham [00:07:59] It’s St. Mark’s Presbyterian Church. They have since relocated. They’re now in Beachwood, but it used to be right at the corner of East Boulevard and Superior.
Jamila Taffe [00:08:10] Do you have any memories of, like, the best places to eat or listen to music on 105?
Heidi Barham [00:08:18] So when I was over here, I wasn’t old enough to hang out, go to restaurants and listen to music. I remember hearing about a restaurant called Dearing’s. And I met some of the family, the grandkids. Their grandparents had owned the restaurant. That was, like, one of the spots that I would hear about, but I wasn’t old enough to go by myself.
Jamila Taffe [00:08:40] And going back to this building, which was the Medical Associates Building. Right. Do you have, like, any specific memories? Like, how was that coming here, interacting with, like, Black doctors, when that was some very prevalent during the time?
Heidi Barham [00:08:54] Well, back then, I didn’t know any different. I thought that’s the way it was. My pediatrician was here, so Dr. Arthur Burns, he was my pediatrician. My dentist was here. Dr. Roderick Adams Sr. And then eventually his son, Dr. Adams Jr. I had surgery once. The surgeon, Edward Wilkerson, he was in this building. Then one of my cousins who was an OB GYN, Dr. Sylvester Davis, he was in this building. So that’s all I knew. And it wasn’t until I got much older and was, you know, doing. Taking care of my own health care and going into the hospitals and different systems that you saw, oh, wait, all doctors aren’t Black.
Jamila Taffe [00:09:38] So do you think, like, that image of being around Black doctors and Black professionals, do you think that impacted your own, like, sense of self and kind of career going forward?
Heidi Barham [00:09:48] So I never knew I was going to be in the medical field, but I will say it just made sense to me, I think. And my primary physician now, Dr. Frederick Harris, prominent African American male doctor, Love him, would recommend him to anybody. My previous gynecologist, he moved away, but Dr. Bradley Dennis, he was African American. So I just. That’s what you’re supposed to do, you know, you want people that have similar lived experiences to you. And when you go to them and you need health care, they understand. One of the running stories, it’s really funny. A friend of mine tells how this revelation she had, when you talk to certain physicians and they say, well, how long have you had this pain? And we say, well, it’s been a minute. In the Black community, we know what that means, that it’s been a while. But to somebody that doesn’t have that same shared experience, you say, it’s been a minute. They think, oh, you just started having the pain when you walked in the door. And so just finding people who can relate on that level, it seems really minute, but it’s extremely important.
Jamila Taffe [00:11:04] And being here now, how do you feel the building has changed over the years?
Heidi Barham [00:11:09] Well, I’m excited to see that there is new life in the building. So much of Cleveland, like my elementary school, it’s gone. The nursery school that I attended when I was a little girl, it’s gone. So many other buildings around the area don’t exist anymore. And so you feel like your childhood, those wonderful memories that you hold, those places, places that you’re used to seeing, are just not there. And so to know that this building in particular, even though it may not be the Medical Associates Building anymore, but now it’s found new life and sharing culture and making sure that people don’t forget our past and that there is promise for the future, that it makes sense for us to have a place where we can come and celebrate who we are as a people.
Jamila Taffe [00:11:57] And it’s still a space. Space for Black people?
Heidi Barham [00:11:59] Absolutely.
Jamila Taffe [00:12:02] So what were your favorite things to do in Cleveland growing up?
Heidi Barham [00:12:05] Like when you were much older, you had to say much older. Thanks.
Jamila Taffe [00:12:14] Teens, early 20s.
Heidi Barham [00:12:17] So one of the things we used to do all the time on, Especially on Friday nights was go down to West 6th Street. There was a jazz club called 6th Street Under. And we used to hang out there. That was our spot. And just to go to listen to music and just enjoy ourselves. I was not a big club person, but we would go to the Flats periodically, go to a couple of different clubs. But I like going to the movies. Not a big shopper, so I didn’t do a whole lot of shopping. I worked in retail, so I really was over the shopping piece. I spent too many years working in the mall to want to go do that as part of my off time. But going to, you know, every now and then we go down the boats like Nautica or- Can’t even think of the other one right now. The Goodtime. Yeah, I was like. There was different ones. Goodtime 1, 2, and 3. So doing things like that. Okay.
Jamila Taffe [00:13:18] Do you know if the Sixth Street Under jazz club is still.
Heidi Barham [00:13:22] I don’t believe it’s still there. There’s a whole lot of other stuff going down on 6th Street. And a couple weeks ago, it really wasn’t pretty because that’s where they had that mass shooting. Yeah.
Jamila Taffe [00:13:36] So how do you feel East 105 has changed over the years?
Heidi Barham [00:13:41] I actually went to Glenville for the first time time a couple weeks ago, and I was excited to see that there’s spaces where there’s restaurants, there’s stores, there’s life, you know, to see the new housing that’s been built up and that this used to be the space. This used to be the place where, you know, everybody was in the neighborhood. And now it feels like we’re trying to come back to the neighborhood. That it’s not a place to be feared, but a place that you can actually go and hang out and enjoy. I just wish the restaurants were open longer so you could get more food. But I will say it’s been good.
Heidi Barham [00:14:24] Yeah.
Jamila Taffe [00:14:26] All right. What is your dream for the community? If you have?
Heidi Barham [00:14:33] I remember a day when we didn’t have to be afraid of our neighbors. And that’s what I would love for us to be able to go back to where community really is. Community where we can come together, where we know one another, our kids can play together, we can have conversation with one another. And even if we disagree, we don’t have to be disagreeable about it. And it doesn’t have to resort to violent end just because we might not see eye to eye on a specific subject. But just seeing all the revitalization, seeing the new housing, seeing the, like I said, Glenville and Third Space, and just more activity and people feeling that there’s an inviting space for us to be.
Jamila Taffe [00:15:25] What gives you hope?
Heidi Barham [00:15:28] People like you give me hope, Mila.
Jamila Taffe [00:15:30] Thank you.
Heidi Barham [00:15:32] That there are people who want to see us be better, who call us to be better and that, you know, with everything this current generation has messed up across our country, to know that there’s people who. Who are inspired to do more, to be more, and to leave a legacy. And so what gives me hope is knowing that there’s this whole generation. I have two children and eight grandchildren, five boys, three girls. And when you look at the news, it can be very- Feel very hopeless, especially when we think about young Black boys. But then I see them and it’s like I have to have hope. I have to believe there’s something better coming for them.
Jamila Taffe [00:16:30] So going back to your parents, I heard, right, that they were maybe involved in like the NAACP or something of that sort.
Heidi Barham [00:16:44] Wow. My dad was actually in the NAACP. I actually have a photo of him in jet magazine from 1960.
Jamila Taffe [00:16:59] I have to see that.
Heidi Barham [00:17:01] And it’s really funny because in the picture he is pictured with a gentleman by the name of Clarence Holmes. Clarence’s daughter and I graduated from high school together. And so we had our 40 year class reunion last summer. And there’s a picture of the two of us together that I can put side by side picture of our dance together.
Jamila Taffe [00:17:22] That’s beautiful.
Heidi Barham [00:17:23] Yeah.
Jamila Taffe [00:17:25] So what was his role? Or was he just like a member?
Heidi Barham [00:17:29] My dad was a member in the NAACP and if I try to quote the sign he has in his hand, I’m going to get it wrong. So I’ll pull it up so I can say it right. But it’s something to the tune of if segregation lives, democracy dies. But let me just make sure I’m quoting him accurately. “If segregation lives, democracy dies.” And he was the youth leader, so wonderful.
Jamila Taffe [00:18:07] Do you mind sending me that picture?
Heidi Barham [00:18:11] Sure.
Jamila Taffe [00:18:11] Okay. That is so perfect. Thank you.
Heidi Barham [00:18:13] And apparently there was a second one. And I don’t know which paper this was in, but it was taken at the same time. And that’s actually my Uncle Kenneth, Kenneth Clement, who was another famous doctor here in the city of Cleveland. And then a Reverend James Lawson, who I didn’t really know him, but then my dad.
Jamila Taffe [00:18:34] And this is right here in Cleveland?
Heidi Barham [00:18:36] Yeah, my dad went to Western Reserve University.
Jamila Taffe [00:18:42] And can you talk a little bit more about, like, what you do currently with your work in hospice and?
Heidi Barham [00:18:48] Absolutely. So I have been with Hospice of the Western reserve for almost 16 years. I spent the first part of my career as a spiritual care coordinator, which is a fancy word for chaplain, working with patients and families as their loved ones are approaching the end of life. And then about two years ago, I moved over into the role as manager of diversity, equity, and inclusion. So I do a lot of work.
Jamila Taffe [00:19:15] Thank you.
Heidi Barham [00:19:16] Out in the community, education, wanting to make sure that people in communities that have historically not utilized hospice services as much as know what it is, what the benefits are, know what it’s not. A lot of it is clearing up misperceptions and myths and dealing with the historic mistrust of a health care system that has really not done a good job of instilling trust in particularly African American communities. So that’s most of my day now.
Jamila Taffe [00:19:49] Do you enjoy it?
Heidi Barham [00:19:50] I love it.
Jamila Taffe [00:19:50] That’s right. Perfect. Yeah. All right, so before we close out the interview, Erich, if you have any additional questions you want to ask.
Erich Schnack [00:19:59] Yes, thank you, Mila. I have a couple here. First, I want to go back to the Medical Associates Building. I’m wondering if you remember any of the layout. You know, what did the building look like in? On the inside, like, when you walk in, was there a front office?
Heidi Barham [00:20:18] Oh, wow.
Erich Schnack [00:20:19] I know. Very neat.
Heidi Barham [00:20:22] Well, it wasn’t an actual office. It was trying to remember. You walked in and there was something in this space. I don’t know if it was. I don’t think it was a coffee shop, but there was something, like, right there to the right, which is now, like, the main little open area down in third space where the couches are. And I remember going up the elevator to go to the offices and those bricks, because you could always look through them, and they were so cool, and I’m glad they’re still here. But that was the one thing I remember about being able to see through the bricks. And the doors had these big knobs in the middle. It wasn’t like just a classic doorknob. Yeah, it was weird. It was like there was something like. I want to say it was like, around red circle, and then there was a doorknob was in there. But it was bizarre.
Erich Schnack [00:21:14] That’s fascinating. So it sounds like there was almost like another business or a room in there that wasn’t even medical associated?
Heidi Barham [00:21:24] Okay. I’m being perfectly honest, Erich. I started coming here literally when I was born, so I can’t take credit for remembering everything. I don’t know if it was like a pharmacy or there was something in there, because I remember there it was, glass wall, glass door to get into it. But yeah, that was a long time ago.
Heidi Barham [00:21:43] And I probably stopped coming here 40 years or so ago when I aged out of going to the pediatrician. And then I would come back periodically to see my dentist. But then we changed. So
Erich Schnack [00:22:03] Next question I have here is about the Jazz Down Under. I’m wondering-
Heidi Barham [00:22:08] Sixth Street Under.
Erich Schnack [00:22:09] Sixth Street Under. Gotcha. I’m wondering, what was the atmosphere like? What musicians played there? You know, were they the jazz greats? Because I know Art Tatum really cut his chops in Cleveland.
Heidi Barham [00:22:22] That was a little before me. Yeah. So Sixth Street Under, you had Russ Thompson and Free Agent. Marion Meadows used to come to town. He would perform there. There was another group, the Wright Reynolds Project, performed there. I can’t remember. I’m pretty sure Forecast probably played there. So, yeah, that, that genre, general group.
Erich Schnack [00:22:51] What was it like? If you walked in the door, paint a picture if you remember. Because this is back in the ’70s then.
Heidi Barham [00:23:01] No, this would have been in the ’80s. I was born in the ’60s. I couldn’t go to the clubs back then. See, this is ’80s, ’90s, and it- You still felt safe. And that’s the big difference for me. It’s like, you know, you knew you needed to be mindful that you were going into a club because it’s, you know, 8 o’clock, 9 o’clock at night, you know, female walking by yourself. But you came in, you went downstairs to get in. You know, the atmosphere was set, mood lighting. We always laughed because we had the front table and everybody knew if it was Friday night, there was a crew of us, we were coming, that was our table. We would get upset if somebody else was sitting there. But it was- It felt community. Like you knew the regulars because you were there every week and just really enjoyed the music. It wasn’t. There was no fighting, there was no shootouts. Yeah, no, none of that. Just really good music and just sitting around just talking to each other and enjoying being together.
Erich Schnack [00:24:11] What was the clientele like with. Was it mainly Black individuals?
Heidi Barham [00:24:16] For the most part, yeah, for the most part.
Erich Schnack [00:24:20] If you were to guesstimate when that closed down, a shot in the dark is okay too. And we could also, like, look at it afterwards.
Heidi Barham [00:24:30] Yeah, I’m trying to remember because I was working Downtown in the banks, so probably in the 2000, 2000s, early 2000s.
Erich Schnack [00:24:43] Time to bring it back. I support it well, if you can.
Heidi Barham [00:24:47] Find John Story, he was one of the owners, and Larry, I can’t remember his partner’s name.
Erich Schnack [00:24:52] Okay, thank you. The next question I have here is about your father. And I’m wondering what chapter of the NAACP was he in? Cleveland?
Heidi Barham [00:25:03] Yeah, it’s Cleveland Chapter. He was a youth leader.
Erich Schnack [00:25:08] And are you sure of what years he was active in the Cleveland NAACP?
Heidi Barham [00:25:16] I don’t know the years, but I can tell you the jet magazine was April 7th in 1960.
Erich Schnack [00:25:21] Oh, okay. And how do you spell his name?
Heidi Barham [00:25:29] It’s Gilbert. G, I, L, B, E, R, T. And last name is Blount. B, L, O, U, N, T.
Erich Schnack [00:25:41] Yeah, we’re very interested in the NAACP from Cleveland, particularly from the Cuyahoga Valley National Park, because there was a lake that was - well, still is there. It’s called Kendall Lake down by Virginia Kendall area in our park. And it was one of two public swimming areas between Cleveland and Akron back in the ’60s and the ’50s that was a place that socially accepted African Americans and the Akron Metropolitan Park Board, who owned the lake at the time, they made the decision to turn it into a fishing hole. So the NAACP got involved. And it appears to be seems clear that it was racially motivated. I’d be interested. I’ll have to look into your father’s name and newspapers to see if he was involved in that case.
Heidi Barham [00:26:34] I can ask him when I talk to him Sunday.
Erich Schnack [00:26:36] They still around?
Heidi Barham [00:26:37] Yeah.
Erich Schnack [00:26:38] All right. Please do. Very interested.
Heidi Barham [00:26:41] He’s in Norway for the summer, so we’re being on the phone Sunday so I can ask him about his NAACP days.
Erich Schnack [00:26:49] Great. Okay.
Heidi Barham [00:26:54] And as far as I know, Mr. Holmes is still alive as well, so he was the chapter president back then.
Erich Schnack [00:27:02] Next question I have is just about your ancestors and were they from Cleveland? Oh, no, you said you came from Virginia, so.
Heidi Barham [00:27:15] My maternal grandmother’s family came from Talbotton, Georgia, but she was raised here. And then my maternal grandfather, his folks came from Virginia, and then he was born here, but then they sent him back to Virginia to be raised by, I think his grandparents or his aunt because his mom died when he was a baby.
Heidi Barham [00:27:41] Then he came back to Cleveland. On my dad’s side, I know less about his family, but I know there’s South Carolina involved in there with his dad’s family. And then my grandmother’s family, most of them were from Cleveland, but I don’t know where they started from originally.
Erich Schnack [00:28:02] You know, people pass down stories generation after generation. I’m wondering if any of your, excuse me, family members talked about East 105 when they were raised here in Cleveland, if they had any locations that they would reminisce about.
Heidi Barham [00:28:26] I can’t think of any off the top of my head. Like I said, I know my uncle actually lived in one of the apartments right around the corner, East Boulevard and Wade Park. I remember them talking about Dearing’s. Can’t think of anything else.
Jamila Taffe [00:28:57] Okay.
Erich Schnack [00:28:58] Thank you very much, Heidi.
Heidi Barham [00:29:00] Thank you.
Erich Schnack [00:29:00] That’s all I got my end.
Jamila Taffe [00:29:02] Okay. Yeah, I think we’re good. Thank you so much for coming here to Third Space Action Labs with the interview at 12:30.
Heidi Barham [00:29:10] Thank you. You’re welcome.
Jamila Taffe [00:29:12] Yeah.
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