Abstract

Mary Jane Schiros began working for unions in 1974, at the International Associations of Machinists and Aerospace Workers, District 54. She worked there for 20 years. In this 2012 interview, she discusses her duties and experiences working for a large district union. She also discusses her experiences attempting to join the DALU union and not being allowed.

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Interviewee

Schiros, Mary Jane (interviewee)

Interviewer

Kocian, Stephanie (interviewer); Ken Valore, Ken (participant)

Project

History 695

Date

3-1-2012

Document Type

Oral History

Duration

17 minutes

Transcript

Stephanie Kocian [00:00:01] Okay. My name is Stephanie Cosian. I’m doing an interview of Mary Jane Schiros for the Women in Labor History Project.

Mary Jane Schiros [00:00:16] I’m Mary Jane Schiros giving the interview.

Stephanie Kocian [00:00:20] And Today’s date is March 1, 2012. 2012. Okay. Is that all right? Okay. All right, we’re going to start with which union did you work for?

Mary Jane Schiros [00:00:39] I worked for the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers, District 54.

Stephanie Kocian [00:00:45] District 54.

Mary Jane Schiros [00:00:50] Our offices were on Euclid Avenue and our headquarters are in Washington, D.C. 

Stephanie Kocian [00:00:57] What year did you begin working for them?

Mary Jane Schiros [00:01:00] 1974. April of 1974.

Stephanie Kocian [00:01:06] How long did you work for them?

Mary Jane Schiros [00:01:07] 20 years. I retired in 1994.

Stephanie Kocian [00:01:12] Did you think that working for a union would be different from working for any other type of private employer?

Mary Jane Schiros [00:01:22] Well, I really didn’t have much experience in the private bay. I worked before I was married with 20th Century Fox movie studios and then I worked at a couple other places. But then I was married and had children and was there until I was older, took care of children until 1974 when I entered into the union.

Stephanie Kocian [00:01:47] You didn’t have any expectations of working for them?

Mary Jane Schiros [00:01:51] No, not at all. Only through my sister, who is Joan Yarano, who has worked for the AFL CIO for many years.

Stephanie Kocian [00:02:00] Okay. What kind of work did you do?

Mary Jane Schiros [00:02:03] I was executive secretary to the president of the district.

Stephanie Kocian [00:02:09] And what did that involve most?

Mary Jane Schiros [00:02:12] Well, I worked also for 10 business representatives and the president. I did their contracts, all their paperwork, and for the locals. Also we had six or seven locals in our building and outside locals, I think we had 18 when I started there. Anything that had to be typed or machine wise or whatever, I would do.

Stephanie Kocian [00:02:44] So how were you treated working for the union?

Mary Jane Schiros [00:02:47] Actually, I was treated very nicely. They were very nice people to work for. It was more like a big family. There were 28 of us in the building and we were all getting along very well.

Stephanie Kocian [00:03:03] Did they ever refer to you as the girls?

Mary Jane Schiros [00:03:06] Always. It’s always the girls. The girls want to go to lunch. Do you girls want to do this? You know, so it was always the girls because there were, let’s see, there’s 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 other locals in this building along with the district. And they all had one office secretaries. I mean, one girl secretary.

Stephanie Kocian [00:03:31] Girl secretary. So when it came to your joining the DALU, the secretaries union, what was the reaction of your of your bosses and what was, well, did they let you?

Mary Jane Schiros [00:03:52] No, no and no, no, no, no, no. We were not. We were not. They were not going to hear about, especially in the office that I worked in, the district president’s office, there were one, two, three of the other offices where the secretaries were allowed to join the union because they were all like independent offices. They were all received their salaries from the local where I received my salary from the district and Local 1363, which is the auto mechanics, they wouldn’t hear of it either. So we never did get to join the union because it was three page contract, two and a half pages of management and a half a page of signatures. That was what they always joked about, that that’s what it would consist of. And there was a long, you know, the girl, the secretary from the AFL–CIO, she came over and tried real hard to get, you know, everyone in the. Our particular building into the union, but it was just not heard. We were not allowed.

Stephanie Kocian [00:04:58] Was there more than just you who wanted to be in the union? Did you have trouble getting other people to go along with unionizing?

Mary Jane Schiros [00:05:06] Well, like I said before, there were three locals in the building which did join, but the rest of us, we did want to join. But one of the secretaries held out and she didn’t want to join. So as a result, when just my office, the district, never joined the union, we weren’t allowed.

Stephanie Kocian [00:05:24] So what kind of pressure did your bosses put on you not to join?

Mary Jane Schiros [00:05:29] Well, they weren’t exactly mean about it, but it was a definite no. I mean, that was it. We were not going to join the union if we wanted to stay there. You were not going to be in the union and that was it.

Stephanie Kocian [00:05:43] Did they threaten firing you?

Mary Jane Schiros [00:05:45] No, I don’t think. Well, it might have been a little unpleasant, but I don’t think it would be fired. I never heard the word.

Stephanie Kocian [00:05:54] You never heard the word. Okay, so the resistance came from top down. So did you ever resent the other girls, the other women in the locals that were allowed to join? Did you ever resent that?

Mary Jane Schiros [00:06:08] Well, I wouldn’t say resent, but it was kind of a. A thing that I really wanted to do because I really, you know, wanted to belong to the union because I think the union, I know the union has a lot of advantages, but like I said before, we were all got along really well and you didn’t really want to cause trouble among the other secretaries.

Stephanie Kocian [00:06:33] So were you as well. Getting down to. Were you as well paid as the other secretaries who were in the union?

Mary Jane Schiros [00:06:40] Yes.

Stephanie Kocian [00:06:40] You were as well-paid?

Mary Jane Schiros [00:06:41] I was well-paid. Got a pension.

Stephanie Kocian [00:06:44] Okay. Was your pension as good as the union, as the men?

Stephanie Kocian [00:06:49] Well, as the other- As the other women who joined the union, were your pensions as good?

Mary Jane Schiros [00:06:53] I never knew because I never saw their records because their records were entirely different than ours. They were all private offices. Okay.

Stephanie Kocian [00:07:03] Is there something else I wanted to ask?

Mary Jane Schiros [00:07:04] I know the business reps had better pension than we did. I can’t say that I was paid poorly, because I wasn’t. I could have had more, but that was their policy and they were the bosses.

Stephanie Kocian [00:07:22] So the resistance came from top down and from some other women. So how about the union itself that was trying to organize you? What did they say to your bosses? How did they?

Mary Jane Schiros [00:07:33] Oh, they fought. They fought for it. There was, like I said before, Joan Yarano, who was executive secretary of the head of the AFL–CIO, she was very adamant about us joining. And how would he really look if it got out that you didn’t let your- A union wouldn’t let their secretaries belong to a union, you know, but it was still a no.

Stephanie Kocian [00:07:59] So how did the union respond to that? Besides no?

Mary Jane Schiros [00:08:02] How did who respond?

Stephanie Kocian [00:08:03] How did the union respond to her?

Mary Jane Schiros [00:08:06] Well, kind of laughed it off. It was not that serious to them that they said no. It was just a thing that they said no, and that was no.

Stephanie Kocian [00:08:16] Okay. I know that you didn’t work for them that long. That’s it. If I can think of anything else, but with yours, that’s. I knew it wouldn’t be.

Mary Jane Schiros [00:08:25] I know I wasn’t in it when it was a problem, the union, like some people, because by the time I got there, it was pretty. Things were pretty well established and it was actually a good union. The machinists had a very good union, except for, really the part where Mr. Wimpensinger, who was our president at one time, he was a doll. He was a nice person. Very nice.

Stephanie Kocian [00:08:51] So you were treated well?

Mary Jane Schiros [00:08:52] Well, they did. They treated me well and they’re very nice to me. I can’t. I liked working there because of the people, not so much because of the work. And I got a paycheck too, and that’s about it, because we stayed in our own little office and did what we had to do. 

Ken Valore [00:09:13] Just out of curiosity, what companies did these union people work for? 

Mary Jane Schiros [00:09:17] We were- Yeah, we had, like I say, when I started there, I know there was 16 or 17 different locals and they entailed, like, Parker-Hannifin, Crown Cork & Seal. We had two companies, Prototype. And we had- When I first started there, we had like over 200 companies. And then that big problem came and I don’t know, it was in the early ’80s or ’70s where we lost a lot of- We went down to 100 and some companies. But we. They were mostly machine shops that had. Even Joseph & Feiss, who had men that repaired the machines. They had. Their people that repaired were called machinists. And so anyone that was a machinist, we had. You know, they were all invited. But a lot of like Crown Cork, we- They never did join the union, even though the NLRB said to join. I mean, that they had won the election. But they never put us out. Put us till they went out of business and then. So we had a number of companies, a lot of companies, a lot of big ones.

Stephanie Kocian [00:10:22] What did you learn about union organizing?

Mary Jane Schiros [00:10:26] Just working for them. It’s a tough job. It was a tough job, union. Our boss put a lot of time into organizing. They put a lot of work into it. And what I learned is that you don’t always get what you want. That’s for sure, because they didn’t. You know, I think it was. Especially after the plants started closing, it was very difficult to get a union to join. And you had to have. I think it was 20% or. I can’t remember quite now, but it was a large portion, large amount of people wanting to join before you. And they said no. They said no. And usually they were enthusiastic until they had a few meetings with the company and then it was. So I didn’t have much to do with organizing. The business representatives did all that. I just did the typing, the contracts and stuff like that.

Stephanie Kocian [00:11:29] Overall, do you have anything else to say about working for a union and working with other unions?

Mary Jane Schiros [00:11:36] Well, all the unions that I have known and the people that worked at the AFL-CIO and the construction workers and they were all very nice people. But for the most part, I enjoyed working there. I can’t say that I would really find any fault. They were always nice to me. I never had a problem other than joining the union. But for the most part, I would say that most of the people I knew through the union were very, very nice and respectful people. The girls were always welcome.

Stephanie Kocian [00:12:09] Did you have any of the business agents maybe, or other employees or other union members that were members of the IAM? Did they maybe go to back for you, go to bat for you to join the union?

Mary Jane Schiros [00:12:22] No.

Stephanie Kocian [00:12:22] Did the members not know that you wanted to join?

Mary Jane Schiros [00:12:26] Mean the members of the other districts, I mean, other locals? No, I don’t think they did because, you know, like 244 and 439, the secretaries there were, belonged to the union and there was no problem there they just let them. You know, they won. They won. They got what they wanted and they did well.

Stephanie Kocian [00:12:50] So what do you think would have happened if you held out?

Mary Jane Schiros [00:12:55] The answer would have been no. There would never have changed. There would never have change in the. In the district office. No. It’s a no. That’s it. Although I don’t know why, because there’s a lot of other people that belonged, worked for the presidents of their locals and they, you know, they belong to the union. But that was the way it turned out. Okay. And I made a pretty good living there. I got a pension, so.

Stephanie Kocian [00:13:24] Okay. I don’t know what else to ask it.

Mary Jane Schiros [00:13:27] You’re welcome.

Stephanie Kocian [00:13:27] There wasn’t much controversy there.

Mary Jane Schiros [00:13:29] No, there wasn’t really- I worked for a very good union. The machinists were very, very nice people, from the international president down to all the business reps and the secretaries. We had a nice time.

Stephanie Kocian [00:13:41] So if they weren’t so nice, would you have pushed harder to join the union?

Mary Jane Schiros [00:13:45] I might have. I might have, you know, fought them if I. But by that time I was comfortable there because I’d been there about 10 years or so. So.

Ken Valore [00:13:59] Just out of curiosity, did they give any reason why they didn’t want you? 

Mary Jane Schiros [00:14:01] Well, the president at the time, he said that because I worked for an executive in an executive position as a secretary to the president, that we weren’t allowed to join because of the position I was in, you know, being an executive, I knew too many things that were going on in the district that I shouldn’t belong to a union. So that was his reasoning.

Stephanie Kocian [00:14:29] That was his reason.

Mary Jane Schiros [00:14:30] And the kind of the business representatives, I said there were 10 of them at the time. They kind of went along with it too, you know, because there’s things that go on that you want to stay in your own building, you know, I mean, not there was anything wrong going on because I really- The machinists were the very honest union. If you knew Mr. Wimpensinger, you know, that nothing would go on. He was wonderful guy. Okay?

Stephanie Kocian [00:15:01] I guess I thought you would have more to say, but I guess Aunt Joan’s going to have more to say.

Mary Jane Schiros [00:15:06] Oh, yeah, I don’t have- Because, like I say, I wasn’t like Aunt Joan, who was into- She was an organizer. She was on the committee for the contracts, and I wasn’t because the men took care of all that. Oh, and there’s another thing. I know we had no female business reps. That’s all I know in the whole country.

Stephanie Kocian [00:15:27] Why do you think that was?

Mary Jane Schiros [00:15:30] You’re asking me, because they didn’t- Female- Didn’t think that females knew what to do. You know, there probably weren’t many female members of the unions that you guys in the machinists union either. There were women that worked in these factories and the shops, and that’s how they picked them, the business reps, you know, from the personnel that worked in the different shops, and they belonged to their unions in the shops. But there was never any females picked. But I think after I retired, there was one woman who lived in a different state who was a business rep. I think it was kind of like a good old boys thing, you know, that women don’t belong in that kind of a job. So they were never picked.

Stephanie Kocian [00:16:15] So women never got leadership roles in the union?

Mary Jane Schiros [00:16:18] No. And the officers vary. In our particular union because it was mostly men and a few women in the factories, they were all men, all the officers of our locals that I can remember until maybe after I was there 10 years. And a couple of the women in the locals were picked as president and vice president of the different locals. But up until that time, it was all. All men. And that was, you know, that was the way it was.

Stephanie Kocian [00:16:50] I have to ask you, just out of curiosity, when it came to the feminist movement, did you. Did you think that being. Working for the union, being part of the union, did that have any influence on whether or not you were going to lean towards politically toward feminism or politically either way, or didn’t you care?

Mary Jane Schiros [00:17:12] No. No, actually, probably I didn’t because I was working and I needed a job, so I had children to raise. And so it was just something you get stuck into, and rather than rock the boat, you just live it out. You. That’s it.

Stephanie Kocian [00:17:37] That’s it.

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