Abstract
Mary Webb Scibana talks about her experience moving to Shaker in the late 1960s. She and her husband lived in the Lomond Neighborhood. She relates her experiences in buying the Moses Warren house and its history. Her husband at that time, Tom Webb, was on city council and was influential in getting streets blocked. Mary was assistant to Mayor Stephen Alfred and first female president of the Shaker Heights Historical Society among many other positions she held in the community. She covers race issues, communtiy issues and history in Shaker Heights.
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Interviewee
Scibana, Mary Webb (Interviewee)
Interviewer
Smith, Kelsey (Interviewer)
Project
Shaker Heights Centennial
Date
6-26-2012
Document Type
Oral History
Duration
51 minutes
Recommended Citation
"Mary Webb Scibana interview, 26 June 2012" (2012). Cleveland Regional Oral History Collection. Interview 915005.
https://engagedscholarship.csuohio.edu/crohc000/505
Transcript
Kelsey Smith [00:00:00] So first I’m just gonna have you say your name so I can check the sound.
Mary Webb Scibana [00:00:05] Mary Scibana.
Kelsey Smith [00:00:08] And today is June 26, 2012.
Mary Webb Scibana [00:00:12] Correct.
Kelsey Smith [00:00:16] Okay. So where were you born?
Mary Webb Scibana [00:00:19] I was born in Traverse City, Michigan, which is in the baby finger of Michigan. And I like to call it God’s Country because the air is clear, the water is pure, the sky and the water are the same color of blue. It’s beautiful country.
Kelsey Smith [00:00:41] So did you grow up there then?
Mary Webb Scibana [00:00:44] I grew up there, yes. And then I was at Michigan State in East Lansing, Michigan, and I became- I was married to Tom Webb. Tom was working on his PhD in marketing at Michigan State. So through a grant of a government grant through AID, we spent a year in Recife, Brazil. We had one child at that point, and my daughter was born there. And when we came back, we spent a short time at Cleveland State and then he was given a position at Cleveland State University as a professor. So we moved to Cleveland, or we bought a home in Shaker Heights.
Kelsey Smith [00:01:40] What home did you buy in Shaker Heights?
Mary Webb Scibana [00:01:42] We were going to rent. Shaker has a lot of two families. And we met a woman by the name of Renee Schechter who was affiliated with Shaker Heights Housing Office. That’s what it was called at that time, under a marvelous woman director by the name of Lucille Anderson. And Renee was rental coordinator. And at that time, I believe she was paid through the Lomond Association. The Lomond Association being a vehicle to- What do I want to say? I haven’t thought this one through. Continue to attract white families at a time when integration and blockbusting was going on big time. It just so happened that there was a house right across the street from the Schechter family. And we purchased that home and our children grew up together, still friends. So she was the first person I met in Shaker Heights. And after a couple years in the summers, when it was busier in the housing market, I worked under Renee, helping her out, showing people the neighborhood, selling the Lomond neighborhood and Shaker Heights, everything just snowballed from there. We lived on Ingleside, which was an extremely busy street at that time, along with another busy street, which was Avalon. Lomond Association decided to get involved in this project of slowing traffic down, which eventually my husband, my ex-husband, I should say Tom Webb, was a replacement for one of the councilmen, Harry Broder, who has since passed. And Tom served on Shaker Heights City Council for 11 years. He became chair of the traffic committee for council. And this is where I’m going in this lengthy thing, we did all kinds. I say we. Because it was under Tom that neighbors got together and did traffic counts. This went on for several years now. Cleveland at that time, said we wanted to block streets to keep out the black, at that time, our African American population, which was not true at all. The traffic in the mornings and in the evenings was horrendous. Not only the counts, but the speed at which they were traveling, which was very bad in the afternoons because at that time children were playing. And as mothers all along the block, we were out there yelling, slow down, slow down. Which a lot of times people would slow down, but a lot of times then they would step on the gas and go faster. Eventually, Tom, working with counsel in Cleveland and Shaker Heights, the streets were blocked, which today they are still blocked, and the traffic is down. Also on Scottsdale Boulevard, there was a diverter so people could come and go, but you had to be careful which streets you turned on. If I can say that. During that time we moved from across the street from the Schechter family down the street to the Moses Warren home. The reason we got that home, it was sort of the white elephant in the neighborhood. It was an old farmhouse built in 1817. I always admired the house. There was three quarters of an acre of land around it. One day, Rene being bolder, Renee Schechter being a little bit bolder than myself, she said, come on, let’s knock on the door. We knocked on the door and the third owner in all those years was Ruth Brooker. Her husband had passed, but he was a plumber. And all the plumbing in the house was up to code and all the electrical and the house was immaculate. But what they had done was in 1947, after World War II, there was a shortage of housing. They had one child, so they made this large old farmhouse into a two family. First floor living, second floor living. I got ahead of myself a little bit there. But Mrs. Brooker did invite us in and I fell in love with the house and told her if she was ever going to sell the house to contact us first, which she did in 1977. And we moved in. Actually, it’s the oldest frame house in the county. And going back to Mr. Brooker jumping here a little bit, they had plans, what they had done to the house, which was very fortunate. So we started renovating the house. It had 1950 molding. We went. We did a lot of research. Dunham Tavern was built shortly thereafter. So that was our clue to the woodwork. And we had Taft Wood mill wood for all over the house like it was originally done. We took out portions of walls where there were doors. We made it into a single family as we had three children at that time. Raised our children in Moses Warren house. Everyone thinks that Moses Warren was the first Warren here, but he was not. He brought his son Daniel Warren here from Connecticut. They had horses in a flat and Daniel Warren was actually the first Warren here. He came out with his father to work on the Painesville courthouse with his brother in law. And Daniel Warren his wife and children were in Painesville. And then they eventually moved to what we now know as Shaker Heights and build a little cabin on Milverton Road that is long gone except in the Shaker Historical Museum. There is a replica of that cabin. Moses Warren left Daniel here in Painesville and he saw how desolate the country was here and he walked back to Connecticut. Yes, quite a trek. But three or four years later Moses Warren came back with his family and he purchased 159 acres of land as a farm. And that’s what takes in the Moses Warren home which we lived in. It went from Chagrin Boulevard, which at that time was Kinsman Road to Lee Road to Palmerston and up to Scottsdale. That’s 159 acres. Eventually in parcels, it was sold off. And it faces Kinsmen or Chagrin. It had a Chagrin address. However, when the houses were built up around it, it was hard for the postman to deliver to the house. So they gave it an Ingleside address and the side door almost became the front door. And a lot of people think that’s what it is, but actually it still faces Chagrin Boulevard. There were bear at that time. There’s a story about Mrs. Warren was at some meeting down by Warrensville Center Road and she was headed home and it was dusk. All of a sudden a black bear came and chased her all the way home to the front door where she jumped off and ran inside. But there’s some fascinating stories about the history of the Warren family. Moses Warren passed the house off to his another son when he passed away. So the Warrens lived in the house until I believe it was the end of the 1800s when the Palmers bought the house from the Warrens. Now Palmerston Road, where the house backed up, got its name from the Palmer family. Mr. Palmer served on Shaker Heights City Council. I’m sorry I can’t give you the exact years. And they raised their three daughters there, two of whom I met back in the early ’80s. They have since passed away. But when Mr. Palmer passed away, well actually when he was ill, he was so valuable to counsel that they met in the Palmer’s dining room. That’s the only time that I know of that they met outside of council chambers. When he passed away, his wife took the place of her husband on council and served for a few years or served throughout his year years leave me as well on my memory. The Palmers lived there until 1947 and raised their girls there. And they had the girls, Norma and I was going to look up their names, but they had some fascinating stories to tell about them. In fact, there’s a picture in the Shaker Historical Museum of Shaker girls hanging out laundry. But it wasn’t Shaker girls, it was the Palmer girls in their yard and they had them dressed like Shakers and took their pictures. Now that’s a little known story that I heard from Norma Palmer Wilson. Another trivia fact was Virginia Palmer, I was going to look this up too, but I didn’t. She married a Palmer? I believe so her name was Virginia Palmer-Palmer. It was something like that, but it was a silly story anyway. Those two women, their third sister had passed away a good many years before them, but they could also tell me things about the house which were fascinating. She told me the dining room is not where it is now. It was where the bay was or is now, which is a bedroom or it was a bedroom when we were there. That was the master bedroom, but that was the dining room and it was open to the living room. And they always had people dropping into their house. They had a seat in front of the bay windows. So anyone who dropped in during dinner just sat there and had dessert with them. I’m losing my train of thought now. All over the place. However, going on to the. When the Webb family purchased the home, we were the fourth family in well over 100 years. And of course it’s coming up on 200 years in 2017. We were in the house until 1998. My ex-husband Tom Webb and I were divorced in ’89. So I was in the house nine years mainly with our younger son because the other two either were in college or had left college and had jobs outside the city of Shaker Cleveland area. Then eventually I thought this is silly to continue to maintain this home and the yard. And I built a home in Lyndhurst. So I went from a very old home that had 18 inch basement walls to a brand new construction, very different. And that’s where I am today. You Mentioned also in that time that I was in Shaker Heights, not only did I. I was rental assistant to Rene Schechter. The housing office eventually became a department within the city and. And moved to the city facilities, city hall facilities. And when my ex-husband left council, Steve Alfred, who served many years on council, ran for mayor of the city. And I became his assistant in 1984. And it wasn’t so much as a secretarial position. As an assistant to Steve, he was also an attorney with Squire, Sanders and Dempsey. There was a lot going on. He wanted the people of Shaker Heights to feel they had a voice again. And so I would take all these calls and return calls and do research for people or be the inner. What do I want to say? Actuary or not an actuary. But I would go to department heads, say, what is going on with this? Why is it? So people had a nice fuzzy feel about their city and about their mayor and where they lived. That was a very rewarding job. Eventually I went into the fire department as things changed in City hall, which was the most delightful job I’ve ever had because firemen are warm and fuzzy. They’re people and they’re always helping and they have that demeanor about them. So shortly after my divorce, I felt I had another family. It was wonderful. Actually. That position lasted for about three years. And Mayor Mearns came into office. Patricia Mearns. And again, things were changing. That’s the name of the game. And I became manager or director of Senior Adults when Evelyn Krent, who was the first director of Senior Adults. That particular department was started by Mayor Kelly, who was right before Steve Alfred. He started the senior adult office. He and a councilwoman by the name of. Of Lillian. I drew a blank on her name. That’ll give you something to look up. I want to say, Jaffe, that’s not right. But anyway, that was the time that there was a lot of rebuilding in Shaker Heights. The downtown area on Chagrin Boulevard needed a face lifting. There were individual store owners and there were some slum landlords. And instead of the city purchasing all the buildings and renovating the buildings which could have been done and kept the flavor, Mayor Alford and the development Planning and Development Director, Phil Heinzelman decided to level the area, which they did on one side and now they’re doing slowly on the. I think that’s the west side of Chagrin. So that was a busy time in Shaker Heights and that was the time the library came into Moreland School, which we’re sitting in right now. And the old library became the Shaker Community Building. I have to throw this in.
Kelsey Smith [00:20:32] Go ahead and throw in whatever you want.
Mary Webb Scibana [00:20:34] Okay. At that time, Pat Mearns became mayor and I became the manager of senior adults. I felt seeing the seniors were in the Shaker Community Building, that the building should be named Walter C. Kelly Community Building. Pat Mearns felt we should hold off on that. So I have to tell you, there is animosity, and I’m sure you’re going to edit this, but there is animosity that Stephanie Tubbs Jones name is on the Shaker Community Building. I mean, Stephanie had a lot to do with this whole area. But as far as Stephanie Tubbs Jones in Shaker Heights, I’m sorry, it’s the Walter C. Kelly Community Building to me and always will be.
Kelsey Smith [00:21:34] What was it that he did that made you?
Mary Webb Scibana [00:21:36] Well, he started the senior program and had the first director. Yeah, that’s. I’m sorry, I’m jumping all over the place here. But Walter Kelly was law director for the city and then became mayor of the city. Walter was a terrific man. Very quiet, low stated. But he was a good mayor for the city and did a lot for the city. As I mentioned, the senior adults. Senior adults are still in the Shaker Community Building as the housing or housing revitalization. Now that was emerged too from the early days when Lucille Anderson was director of the housing department and the integration programs were going into effect. In fact on the books. At one time, for sale signs were not allowed in Shaker Heights.
Kelsey Smith [00:22:47] I remember hearing about that.
Mary Webb Scibana [00:22:49] Yes. And it eventually as anything else, gosh, that has to only be like 15, 20 years ago, which is a short time to me. That was ruled by the Supreme Court as unconstitutional. So now today, of course you see for sale signs or for rent signs, but it had a purpose. At that time there, there were many, many African Americans who were instrumental in the different community associations. Ludlow being the first, Moreland, Lomond, Sussex, and eventually there became Malvern, all named by the different school districts at the time. And also Mercer. Gosh, it seems like I’m forgetting one, but maybe not. I am Boulevard. They were very important and there were some very important people who became involved in their associations. Off the top of my head, I can think of Irv Feldman, an attorney who was president of Lomond Association, also went on to serve on school board and president of the school board. Very instrumental in shaping Shaker Heights. Lou Einban and his wife. His wife was Lomond PTA president at one time. They have since retired and moved with their children out to California. Very instrumental. I think of Ralph Pruitt who was an African American and he was president in Lomond Association. Ralph passed away at an early age. He was a professor at Cleveland State, I believe at Cleveland State. And his family had one of the few. Here’s trivia. Swimming pools in the Lomond area, which has since been filled in by the family who bought it from the Pruitts. I think of the Rush family, Carlton and Gloria Rush. They were African Americans, highly involved in Lomond, wanting, yes, they wanted black neighbors, but they didn’t want to live in a black ghetto again, they were professional people who wanted their children to have the integration experience. So here I bounced all over to today. A lot of editing for you. I’m trying to think what else can I the main reason or one of the reasons going way back to when we moved here in 1968 and moving to back to Shaker because my husband was raised. Ex husband was raised in Shaker and his parents wanted. Wanted us to move in either the Fern Way or the Onaway area. But we wanted our children to have that integration experience, to be accepting of others. And that’s why we moved in Lomond. All three of my children went. Michael, Carolyn and Paul went through Lomond School and at that time went through Byron and then through the high school. So unfortunately none of them came back here because they all have jobs in other cities. But anyway, I’m still here.
Kelsey Smith [00:26:57] What are you doing today?
Mary Webb Scibana [00:26:59] I retired. Gosh, I can’t believe it. I think it was six or seven years ago and eventually, because I live in Lyndhurst, I’ve become involved in that area and doing volunteer work. A short time after I retired, I became bored and I saw an ad in the paper for a tour guide in Lakeview Cemetery and applied. And because Lakeview is extremely historical, I was hired and for four years I was tour guide in Wade Chapel. Now I could get on my soapbox about Lakeview Cemetery in Wade Chapel as well, but I will not. This year I decided just to be a total tour guide or a docent for Lakeview, which I am, because there is so much history there. And if you go back to the time that Jephthah H. Wade and other gentlemen were instrumental in purchasing that land that was all woods. It was five miles outside the city of Cleveland. So again, if you think back to that was 1869, the Moses Warren home was 1817, this was really woods and farmland. So that’s my passion. Now I also do volunteer work at the Discovery Shop, which is American Cancer Society high end resale shop. We’re the Nordstrom’s of resales, we say, because we get beautiful things donated. And we have 40 to 50 volunteers, one manager, paid manager, and all the proceeds go to the American Cancer Research. So I feel in that way I’m giving back a lot by volunteering there as well. And of course, I think almost anybody is touched by cancer these days. Which takes me to my other volunteer position at the Gathering Place, which is a facility for those who have been touched by cancer in any way. Started by Eileen Safran with a volunteer group back, I believe, 12 years ago. Now there’s a second facility on the west side even, fantastic facility. Now they have several paid social workers there, but that’s very rewarding too. My volunteer jobs with the cemetery, with the American Cancer resale and with the Gathering Place. I’ve never met kinder people, people who want to give all the time. And that’s the way I felt in my initial workings with the City of Shaker Heights. For Steve Alford and then for the seniors, had a wonderful social worker type, Marie Prendergast, I have to mention her in here, who is still loved by so many people, not only seniors, but she did so much for the city of Shaker. She retired, I believe, about three years ago, four years ago. And she’s one of my best friends, which is an also terrific working relationships. But Marie and I worked it out, toughed it out. And so I’ve had so much in the city of Shaker and such a love for a fantastic city. I’m a walker and I love to walk. And in my new community, which has been 14 years, I was exploring all around, but there’s nothing like walking in Shaker. You never get bored. Beautiful community. Whenever we used to have guests, and still when I have guests who do not know Shaker Heights, it’s still part of my tour.
Kelsey Smith [00:31:24] I’m just going to ask you a couple questions-
Mary Webb Scibana [00:31:26] Sure.
Kelsey Smith [00:31:26] To clarify some things.
Mary Webb Scibana [00:31:28] Oh, you didn’t follow some of that.
Kelsey Smith [00:31:32] No, it was great. Really.
Mary Webb Scibana [00:31:33] Okay.
Kelsey Smith [00:31:33] I mean, because what we do is we clip the audio into like minute clips. So your little stories will be great.
Mary Webb Scibana [00:31:39] Okay.
Kelsey Smith [00:31:40] But I was wondering how, like, how did you end up as mayor, assistant to the mayor. Because, you know, the way you said it, you just kind of ended up. Did he ask you or how is that?
Mary Webb Scibana [00:31:50] Yes. When my husband, he was appointed to counsel and then he ran twice and I was his campaign manager. And I have, I must say, and people will tell you this to the point that I am anal in organizing and keeping everyone organized and myself as well. That’s one of my very strong points. So with my ex-husband running for council, I would keep calendars and phone calls and we had volunteers doing phone banks. That was a first in Shaker Heights. Nobody ever called residents to vote for Tom Webb in this case. And we paid for the phones through the donations to the campaign. But we had so much fun. I baked cookies for the volunteers and we had little speeches, less than one minute clips. And at the beginning everybody in the campaign said, you don’t do that. That’s just awful. Well, people loved it. And my ex husband also did something that Shaker never did. He went door to door. He covered every single neighborhood in his campaign twice. That was never done. And people jumped on the bandwagon for that. I mean, you just didn’t do that. Shaker Heights. And for one of the campaigns, I believe it was his last campaign, we had a 1920 something Ford, you know, an old Ford truck. And that was donated to us by one of the Daltons of Dalton, Dalton Little in Newport. One of their sons had old cars and that was more fun. And we put a big sign on that. That was never done. So, little avant garde. And that takes me to your question. So my husband’s term was up when Steve Alford was running for mayor. In fact, my ex-husband and Steve were good friends, both extremely intelligent men with a vision. My ex-husband would have run for mayor if Steve hadn’t. But Steve did run for mayor and I worked heavily on his campaign in organization. And so Steve saw my abilities and that I was something that he needed. And so he decided that he’d bring me on, see how I worked with him. So we worked pretty good for about seven years. He was in office eight years. And then it just, you know, I was with, in the city and I was, I had a history, I had some abilities and a lot of people saw those, which was a real tribute to me. And I appreciated it, truly appreciated it.
Kelsey Smith [00:35:18] And then what did you do at the fire department? Because you said you worked there.
Mary Webb Scibana [00:35:23] Oh, okay. The fire department at that time the receptionist position was under the fire department. And at that time City hall was remodeled. Actually, while I was in Mayor Alford’s office, it was being remodeled. One of the vaults was made into an elevator because it was not handicapped accessible. And the door going into City hall off the parking lot was a real back door. And so in their planning they somewhat. It’s still a back door but they made it wheelchair accessible. Handicapped accessible with the elevator in there. In fact, that was. And I can’t give you the exact year, but where an earth. The earthquake hit this area. And I happened to be. That’s when they were putting in the elevator. Steve had gone down to his law office and I had my head down looking over some papers on his desk to organize some things. And I thought the workmen had dropped something in the elevator. And I paid no attention. And everybody’s saying the building’s shaking. Yeah, it’s the men working on the elevator, probably. But it was the earthquake, so I never knew what hit us. But your question? Oh, why? So anyway, because there were two doors in City Hall. They wanted somebody to direct people, so there was a receptionist. They didn’t know where the budget should go. It was put in the fire department because of the proximity at that time. The watch office for the fire department was right there at that time as well. And people coming into meetings in the evening, the fire department would tell them where to go because the receptionist was not there in the evenings. So it had a balance. And I’m not sure it’s not in the fire department now, but that was when City hall was becoming computerized as well. And the fire department had a computer program which was not user friendly. So I was learning that along with the chief and the captains and the lieutenants, and we all learned that together. And so I could put in data. So. And that was fun. So, you know, that was the interaction. And I had to go through the fire department to get to their administrative offices. So there was a lot of interaction. Does that answer your question?
Kelsey Smith [00:38:26] I don’t know that I have any more questions. This was really great, actually. You have some great stories.
Mary Webb Scibana [00:38:31] Oh, thank you. I know once I leave, I’ll remember some other things, but-
Kelsey Smith [00:38:36] I mean, if you have anything else to add, you can always call me or if you have anything right now that you just off the top of your head that you want to add.
Mary Webb Scibana [00:38:45] I remember one thing when you said off the top of my head. This is sort of funny. Amy Joy Donuts used to be on the corner of Chagrin and Lee Road. It was open 24 hours and they had, well, Ms. Pac-Man. And you know, the big machines that first came out, you know, almost. Well, they were almost before computers, you know, became popular. Well, because it was 24 hours, kids were hanging out at Amy Joy Donuts. So they had this measure or this, what do I want to say, ordinance before council to do away with these games. And it was in committee. And a lot of the committee meetings at that time would go from 8:00 to 11:00, you know, if it was really a meaty subject. Plus there were other things on the agenda. So they were talking in committee one night about what to do with these kids hanging out. And that’s my older son Michael was probably 10th grade because he wasn’t driving yet. He was still on his bicycle. And my ex-husband was driving home because he’d go Lee Road to Chagrin to go to our house. And he was really heated about this subject and these games and these kids he drives by. Amy Joy. And there’s our son playing games about 11:00 at night. And our older son was really a good boy. So that’s, that was always a joke in our family. Yeah. What’s off the top of our head? My head. But what else? Oh gosh, I can tell some other stories but I, oh, I remember George Lamboy was the police chief. I don’t know if anybody’s told this story. There was Sam’s Fashion Post. I’m not sure if it’s still on Chagrin but it was on the corner of Lee and Chagrin on the northwest corner. And at that time it was not such a popular place in the Shaker community. It was being held up and the call came into the police department that there was a man in there with a gun. Now we’re talking 19, late 1970s I believe. And guns and holdups were not as common as they are today. And the police went and George Lamboy was an old police so to, I hate to use the term flat foot on the beat cop and the building I think was being surrounded. Well, George said if anybody’s going to get this guy out of there, it’s the chief. And George, he had a colorful language as well which he did not use around so called ladies. But George got up from behind a police car or whatever they had and started in to Sam’s Fashion Post to get this guy. Anyway, the guy came out and I, I don’t remember the exact story but later on they said that was really stupid George, but George was the best guy. He has since passed away as well. Really. There’s, oh, the other story to take you back to Shaker Heights. The first service director was Rudy Rife. Old, old family in Shaker and he had a little farm up in the Sussex area with his house. He had built his own house and he raised bees even. And when Rudy became old, his son Bernie Rife took over the service department. And of course that was a time when Things were done by a shake of the hand and people knew everyone and things were kinder and more humanitarian at that point. Then a little graph started back in the late ’70s in the service department and Bernie was a little bit pushed out. Walter Ugrenk, who was police chief, took Chief Lamboy’s job. He went in, I think it was before he became police chief, he went in the service department. He had great organizational skills and could really relate to the laborer and they loved Walt. But eventually Walt became police chief and gave up the service director position. But that then Chief Lamboy didn’t have a place to go and needed his retirement. And as I remember, Chief Ugrenek was doing both service and police. And so he put George into the service department. And George said he didn’t care what he did, but he needed this retirement. So George worked in the service department. Pride as big as the world. But the reason I’m again rambling, but the Rife family, Bernie Rife, the son, he continued raising bees. And I remember when my ex-husband was on council, that was his gift to the councilmen and women at that time. He would give them little jars of honey for their Christmas gift.
Kelsey Smith [00:45:39] That’s neat.
Mary Webb Scibana [00:45:40] It is neat. Yeah. I also remember when Tom was on council, they had so called holiday or Christmas parties at that time at the mayor’s house. And this was a carryover, gosh, probably from Mayor Van Aken who served 32 years in Shaker. I also knew Mayor Van Aken’s son. He this is more even jumping around. Where am I? Oh. And anyway, I’ll tell you one. First Walter Kelly, who was mayor at that time, he would have a Christmas party at his house for council and school board. Those were so much fun. I’ll never forget that. And Walter Kelly could play the piano like you can’t believe. And so after our cocktails and our dinner, Walt would sit down at the piano and we’d all sing Christmas carols. We would have the best time. And even after Walt went off council for the first couple years, he still had council and school board at his house for Christmas parties. Those were, you know, that takes you back to a different time again. I don’t feel that old. Kelsey. One part I forgot to tell you is when we were doing research on our house and we initially bought the house and we saw the baseboards from Dunham Tavern, I started doing research on the Warren family and the Palmer family and the reason I know so much about all of them, I went to the Shaker Historical Museum at that time I was raising the three children as an at home mom and they saw, ha ha, a volunteer. So that was part of my life too, was not only doing the research at the historical museum, but I became involved in the gift shop with wonderful woman Muriel Nachman. Her father served on city council too, and he passed away on council with cancer many, many years ago. And Muriel and I were chair of the Spirit Tree, the shop at the Shaker Historical Museum. And then I became president of the Women’s Committee. Then after that and serving on the board of the Shaker Historical Museum, our society, I became the first woman president of the Shaker Historical Society. And again, there were a lot of historical people. As I mentioned, there was Bill Van Aken, whose father was Mayor Van Aken. And Bill served on council. And when Mayor Van aken died after 32 years and Bill felt that he should just step into the mayor’s spot, well, council did not think that. And Bill held a lot of animosity through the years, but became involved. And I don’t know if anybody has told you about the reason the Larchmere area is Shaker Heights is because Mayor Van Aken’s family had a farm there. It was a decent sized farm. And he could not become mayor of the city. He knew the Van Sweringen brothers and they wanted him to be mayor of the village, but he lived in Cleveland. So they took that little piece of land, I guess they must have dealt with the city of Cleveland and made it Shaker Heights.
Kelsey Smith [00:49:48] Just so he could be mayor.
Mary Webb Scibana [00:49:50] Just so he could be mayor, yes. So that little piece of land that juts out there, that’s the reason. And I have been told, and I don’t know if this is true, the Van Sweringen brothers developed Shaker Square. And so I better not even mention that. But I was told that at some point the Moreland community, or a good portion of it, was sold to the city of Shaker Heights or traded with Cleveland. But of course, Shaker Heights has so much, or Shaker Square has so much history. A lot of the architects who built the homes in Shaker had a lot to do with Shaker Square and Moreland Courts. And so anyway, I’m done, I think.
Kelsey Smith [00:51:02] I like how living in an old house gets you into the historical society. That’s how my family did it.
Mary Webb Scibana [00:51:06] Really?
Kelsey Smith [00:51:06] Yeah.
Mary Webb Scibana [00:51:07] [inaudible]
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