Jamilah Zand Interview, 2009

Abstract

Jamilah Zand was born in Cleveland in 1954. This 2009 interview discusses her childhood, racial issues, and the music she grew up with. Zand, who grew up on Cleveland's east side, shares memories of attending concerts, listening to the radio, and sampling new music from her different relatives' record collections. She also comments on the music being released today and how its message is often different from the music she grew up with. Race and race relations in Cleveland are another topic that is covered in the interview, and Zand talks about her experiences with those issues, both in regards to music and in general. Pertaining to the relationship between race relations and music, she contends that music is a unifying force that brings people of all races together.

Interviewee

Zand, Jamilah (interviewee)

Interviewer

Aritonovich, Dana (interviewer)

Project

Rock and Roll

Date

10-30-2009

Document Type

Oral History

Duration

88 minutes

Recommended Citation

"Jamilah Zand Interview, 2009" (2009). Cleveland Regional Oral History Collection. Interview 200004.
https://engagedscholarship.csuohio.edu/crohc000/27

Related Resources

Rock and Roll @ Cleveland Voices

Transcript

Dana Aritonovich [00:00:04] Okay, why don't we start with you stating your name, where you live and what you do.

Jamilah Zand [00:00:08] Okay. My name is Jamilah Zand and I live in Cleveland, Ohio in the Riverview Tower building on West 25th Street on the west side of Cleveland. Oh, I just said West 25th. Anyway, I'm unemployed. My avocation is writing, but my vocation is customer service representative and I'm currently unemployed. I write poetry plays and children's stories. I'm also a self-taught graphic artist and a music lover. I am a music lover. So.

Dana Aritonovich [00:00:53] And where did you, where were you born, what year were you born and where did you grow up?

Jamilah Zand [00:00:57] I was born here in Cleveland, Ohio at Mary B. Talbert Hospital. It's no longer in existence. I was born in 1954. I was raised in Cleveland and had my elementary and high school education here in Cleveland. What else did you ask?

Dana Aritonovich [00:01:21] What schools did you go to?

Jamilah Zand [00:01:23] I went to. Oh man, I went to so many schools. Ah, I kind of. I went to a different school every year in my elementary school years because my mother was a single mom in the late 50s and early 60s. I was a latchkey kid before they coined the phrase. So when they came up with this term latchkey, I already knew what it was about because I had already been there and done it. But it was not as popular to be a child that goes home and, and cooks their, fix their own dinner or lunch, you know, has a key around their neck. It wasn't as popular then. And then I'm an only child, so that was doubly strange because most people had to, you know, go home and fix lunch for several. For their sisters and brothers, you know, their siblings. And all I had to do is go and take care of myself, you know, So a lot of people thought I was rich when. And I almost believed it, you know, but I wasn't. So I went to several schools. Elementary school I went to. Case Woodland was the first school that I ever went to. It was where I went to kindergarten. Then I went to Outhwaite and Oliver Wendell Holmes. I went to Outhwaite, later became Alfred A. Benesch. I don't know who he is or. But they changed the name. I went to Charles H. Lake. I went to Stephen E. Howe. I went to Captain Arthur Roth. I went to Iowa-Maple. I went to Mount Pleasant. So those are just the elementary schools. I. And that was because my mother had to work and. I stayed with my aunt and there were other children there. So I guess she felt like that was a better environment for me to be around other kids. But they used to beat me up all the time. So anyway.

Dana Aritonovich [00:03:55] And what were, what were these schools like? Were these schools integrated at all or?

Jamilah Zand [00:04:00] No, no, the only, oh, the only school that I went to that was integrated, it was later I went to junior high school at Patrick Henry. I spent most, actually that was, I was pretty stable at Patrick Henry. I attended seventh through ninth grade and junior high school was only seventh through ninth grade. But what happened was I spent about three or four weeks of ninth grade at Patrick Henry and then transferred to Shaw. Shaw was the first integrated school that I ever attended and I was only there for about three or four months and then transferred to Audubon Audubon Junior High School. So Shaw was a high school. They started high school in East Cleveland at that time at night at 9th grade they were advanced because now 9th grade starts at, I mean high school starts in 9th grade now, but it used to start at 10th grade. So you probably, you weren't even born, so you don't know what I'm talking about. And then they used to have, in my school actually it was 10th, 11th and 12th grade was high school.

Dana Aritonovich [00:05:17] Yeah. But some other schools in Lake County, they do it, they do it the other way.

Jamilah Zand [00:05:21] Yeah.

Dana Aritonovich [00:05:21] Which I always thought was strange too.

Jamilah Zand [00:05:23] And then also another thing is that we used to have 9A and 9B. When you, the first, like 7A, the first part of seventh grade is 7B. Second part of seventh grade is 7A. First part of eighth grade is 8B. Fifth grade first, second part of eighth grade was 8A. So you would graduate up to the 8A or from the 9B to 9A. So I attended three weeks of 9B at Patrick Henry and then went to high school. I was no longer in junior high school. And then I left Shaw and got demoted, went back to 9B. So it was, it was, it was really. We're transferring from an East Cleveland School back to a Cleveland School. Then I left Audubon and went to John Adams. That's where I attended high school. And I attended high school with John Adams for predominant most of my high school career. But the 12th grade I didn't graduate. I ended up not graduating, went on time like I was supposed to. So I was so embarrassed about not graduating on time with my class. I went to, I transferred to East Tech. I went to East Tech for a few months, didn't work out. Went to John Hay, didn't work out. Ended up eventually getting a GED.

Dana Aritonovich [00:07:05] And what was the experience like at Shaw? That was the first integrated school that you had attended. What do you remember about that?

Jamilah Zand [00:07:11] Wow.

Dana Aritonovich [00:07:14] That would have been probably like the mid to late '60s.

Jamilah Zand [00:07:17] It was actually in '68. And it was a dynamic experience. It was. Wow. It was. Shaw was the first high school where I actually saw Black activism. Well, where students were actually demonstrating, Black students were demonstrating against the so called system. And I didn't understand it and I didn't get involved and nobody talked about it that much. The little group that I hung with or, you know, I didn't make a lot of friends. I wasn't easy to make friends. So I didn't get involved with, you know, social activism at the time. But it was, but it was something. It was the first place where I actually saw, you know, social activism. I didn't.

Dana Aritonovich [00:08:28] Tension between the white students, the Black students, especially the activists.

Jamilah Zand [00:08:35] No, I didn't, I didn't. I don't know if it was because I wasn't there long enough, but. And. Or I just didn't. Or I just wasn't aware. But no, I didn't see any tension. I didn't see. I just remember one sister walking through the halls passing out papers about some protest or, you know, we should stand up for rights. You know, I can't even remember exactly what she was saying, but I have this vivid image of this woman, this girl with an Afro with glasses, walking through the hall passing out papers. And that was what. That is my whole thing about Shaw, you know, that's what I remember the most. And it was the first integrated school that I went to. I didn't have white friends. I wasn't there long enough to make friends, but because like I said, I was only there maybe three or four months before I transferred out of Shaw to Audubon. And another reason my mother moved around a lot, she, she, she was beautician. And I don't know, she's just, like I said, a single mom. And she just did what she had to do, you know, whatever, you know, if she had to move, she moved, you know, so, so. And I just tagged along and what,

Dana Aritonovich [00:10:15] what neighborhoods in Cleveland did you, did you live in? I know you lived all over the place, but anything specific that you remember?

Jamilah Zand [00:10:23] Well, when I went to Patrick Henry, I lived on, on the east side between, in the St. Clair area, between Arlington and St. Clair, on East 130th. And it was like two blocks over from East Cleveland. You know, you walk under the bridge and you're East Cleveland, which was like two blocks over. So. And those are where my strongest memories of school and neighborhood were developed. And it's also some of my strongest memories of music because I listened to the radio every morning before I went to school, you know, whether my mother was there or not. I'd have the radio on as I was getting dressed and I listened to WJMO. I'll never forget because I was small. I was always small when I was growing up. I remember, I can't remember the DJ's name but he used to say I'm a little piece of leather but I'm well put together. And I remember that because I used to, that was my, my, my anthem, you know, I'm a little piece of leather, but I'm well put together. You know, I keep that, I keep that going on, you know, my mantra so that, you know, I would feel better about, you know, give myself little boost, you know, because everybody else was big and had boobs and had hips and legs and it was wear fishnet stockings. I couldn't even wear fishnet stockings, bag on my legs. So, you know, I was really, you know, so whatever that helped boost my self-esteem. And music, the music, you know, it was just Gladys Knight and the Pips and Marvin Gaye and, and oh man, The Dells and oh. I actually went to see Smokey Robinson and The Miracles at Leo's Casino. My best friend. I did have time to make best friend when I was in at Patrick Henry. Tony Smith was my best friend and my mother took her and I to, to Leo’s Casino to see Smokey Robinson and the Miracles. And that was, that was. I see, I never forgot it. Yeah, I was, I was probably 12 or 13. I 13 the oldest. That was.

Dana Aritonovich [00:13:13] What do you remember about Leo’s Casino? Casino and about the environment?

Jamilah Zand [00:13:16] Well, they had, they had a little balcony area and then they had a major table seating area and the stage was in front of the, you know, major seated area. We were sitting in the little raised area. It wasn't, you know, it wasn't. Wouldn't high up and you know, like, like in House of Blues, you know, their balcony is way high. This is just low raised area just slightly above the main floor. And it was, that's where we were sitting. And I could just, I can remember laying, sitting over the rail. I don't know, I guess that was the teenage thing, you know, just get over the rail. And it was just. I thought Smokey Robinson was cute. My mother thought the other guy with tall dark guy with big glasses was, was cute and so did Tony and they accused me of being color-struck because I liked Smokey. I thought everybody did, you know. So you see how. Let's see, racism works within the Black community. Anyway, I also went to see. I saw The Temptations twice. Once at Leo’s Casino and once at the Uptown or the. There used to be a little club on Euclid and 30th, and it was in a penthouse lounge in a very small. The building is still there. And every time I go by there, I remember. And I try to remember the name of that place. Place. What it was called when they had a penthouse lounge. And that's where I saw the. The Temptations the second time. But each time I went to Leo’s, it was just a thrill. I drank ginger ale, you know, sip ginger ale with a straw and had a little cherry in the glass. And, you know, it was just thrill and it. Oh, man.

Dana Aritonovich [00:15:39] What do you remember about the audience?

Jamilah Zand [00:15:42] Oh, I do believe the audience was integrated. It was like, you know, walking into a different world because it was different from just the everyday environment that I was used to. You know, like I said, the only school that I went to that was integrated was Shaw. So. So I was very. I was deeply entrenched in what it was like to be Black and growing up Black here in America, you know, so. It was different when you go out and see people that you actually see on TV sitting in the audience, you know.

Dana Aritonovich [00:16:29] And what about seeing professional Black performers who are attracting all kinds of different crowds? How did that make you feel as a young girl in Cleveland and having probably a different experience with, you know, regular people around Cleveland? And then you see these Black performers who are, you know, so wonderful and talented, and everybody's responding the same way. You. How did that. How did that make you feel? Or did you even look at it like that?

Jamilah Zand [00:16:56] That's kind of. That. That's probably nervous laughter, because I'm trying to figure out a way to say this with my mindset being what it was at that age. I was probably thinking, well, I mean, we did watch American Bandstand, you know, so it wasn't a surprise that white people like Black music. That wasn't a surprise. But with the mindset that I had, I was probably thinking that, you know, they're just biting, you know, And I was young, immature, and that's all I knew. You know, I probably thought, you know, you know, what biting is, right?

Dana Aritonovich [00:17:46] Explain that.

Jamilah Zand [00:17:50] When you're imitating or trying to copy. And I just picked that up. That. That is such an old term. Biting. I. I'm Surprised you don't know it. Oh, my God. Oh, man, that's term way from the ’80s. And I'm just saying it. I thought I was being cool saying it just now, but it's, it's really old term, really biting. So I might have. I might have been at 13, sitting in the audience. With my, you know, rose-colored glasses on or my jaded mentality and probably thought, oh, all these white folks are here just imitating Black folks. That song, you know, that's probably what I was thinking. But yeah, I do believe in. In both instances, when I saw Smokey Robinson and when I saw The Temptations, in both places there was an integrated audience.

Dana Aritonovich [00:19:02] Where else did you go to hear music or to buy? Do you remember what the first record you bought was or that you had in the house, maybe that your mom bought?

Jamilah Zand [00:19:09] Oh, wow. Now, see, that's the one thing that love about my mother. And I can honestly say she left me a legacy because she loved music. She had really. She really had quite a collection. I lost. I've lost several collections along the way in my life. But. I want to try and keep some kind of continuity here and not stray too much. But goodness. My mother's legacy to me was that she loved music. She liked R&B, she liked jazz, she liked gospel, she liked classical music. I went to several concerts. I even went to Gleason’s once. In fact, I got up on the stage and danced with Jackie Wilson. I was about five years old, but. Or was it Chuck Jackson? It was either Chuck Jackson. I think it was Chuck Jackson. I was about five or six years old, but I got up on stage and danced with Chuck Jackson at Gleason’s. And it was on 55th. Yeah. Okay, so that's Gleason’s, and that's where I was with my family. My cousin, my cousin Curtis, my cousin Deborah. These are the. These are the cousins that I live with. When I didn't stay with my mother and why I was transferring to different elementary schools so much because, you know, I stay with my mother. I go to Case, I go to Outhwaite. And then they changed the name to Alfred A. Benesch. Then I moved back with Auntie Betty and Deborah and Curtis and I end up going to Oliver Wendell Holmes. But then they moved and then I ended up going to Iowa-Maple. And you know, so. So the. It was, you know, that's how I ended up going to so many different schools, because I was staying with relatives. Well, anyway, what was I talking about?

Dana Aritonovich [00:21:24] You're talking about your mother's legacy and all the records she had, okay?

Jamilah Zand [00:21:25] And she, I, I, I can remember she had, she had the Miracles. She had Aretha Franklin. She had Cal Tjader. She had Duke Ellington, she had Miles Davis, she had Erroll Garner. I mean, these are just an example of the wide array. Nancy Wilson, Nina Simone. Oh, my. She, she loved Nina Simone, and so do I. I absolutely love Nina. So, I mean, this lion of family, Sly and the Family Stone, the Chambers Brothers. So, I mean, it's just a wide array. Temptations, just a wide array of albums, you know, so. And my job was to keep them in alphabetical order. That's how I learned how. But I was. Because I was good at spelling and I actually, I get paid, you know, get a bonus, you know, get a larger allowance if I put the albums in alphabetical order. And I, I didn't do it often, but I did keep them as much as possible, you know, keep them in alphabetical order. So. I'm trying to think this guy's name, Bryant. One of the. Wow. It's just whenever there was music and she could afford to take me, she would take me if it was, or if it was a free event, you know, she would try to find out, you know, where things were, and we'd go. She took me to plays. I can remember she was actually in Jamaica at the Karamu House and The Pajama Game. So she had some talent and she could sing. Maybe that's, maybe that was her. That's where it developed or where it came from, because she used to sing in church and. But she just. Through her. I learned to love all kinds of music, so, and so.

Dana Aritonovich [00:23:40] Is that primarily what you did for fun or in your free time, just kind of listen to records and stuff since you didn't have a lot, big group of friends or anything?

Jamilah Zand [00:23:53] Actually, yeah. And we had an album, Valley of the Dolls by Dionne Warwick. When I came home from school, I used to play it to death, the Valley of the Dolls, over and over. You know, it was. Then you had to change the. Well, you could have an automatic turntable. But then I had a little, you know, just a single player turntable. So I had to, you know, I had to manually, you know, replay the record. So over and over again, go back, let the album play over on one side, then go back and change it and not change it, but replay it again. And. Yeah, the big CDs, as they call them. I've heard, I heard, I've heard kids say, you know, the big CDs they call LPs the big. The vinyls, big CDs. Anyway.

Dana Aritonovich [00:24:55] What was the first song that you remember that kind of had a message, like a social message or political message or? The first time you noticed a song like that?

Jamilah Zand [00:25:05] I would say it was when I was in the 10th grade. And songs, they can't take away my music. And I think was it. Was it Joan Baez? They can take away my music. Sing it, sing it now. Come on now.

Dana Aritonovich [00:26:08] So you mentioned WJMO. What other radio stations did you listen to? Any DJs you might remember from that time also?

Jamilah Zand [00:26:15] Well, I remember WABQ. I remember Little Anthony and the Imperials. So, you know, WABQ and WJMO played different kinds of music. WJMO played things like Martha and the Vandellas Heat Wave. And WABQ played things like Little Anthony and the Imperials. What was that? More crossover music, I think you would call it, on abq, I actually. And that's how people made their choice, you know, all depending on what mood you were in. And you know, if you want some. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. If you wanted something like that, you turn in WJMO. But if you wanted something smoother, the ballad, what was that? I just, was just on the tip of my tongue. The little Anthony and Imperials thing, their hit. And "Goin' Out of My Head." You wanted over you if you wanted to hear something like that. Yeah, you listen to WABQ and I, that's. But I. When I was going to school, like I said, I used to listen to WJMO when I was getting dressed in the morning, I used to listen to WJMO. I wanted something, you know, some get down music, you know, Heard It Through the Grapevine and you know, Gladys Knight and the Pips and Marvin Gaye and you know.

Dana Aritonovich [00:28:08] So do you remember going to the record store with your mom at all to pick out records?

Jamilah Zand [00:28:12] No, not really, but I do. I had a cousin that worked at a record store and I used to go there after school and it was a. I don't know the name of it, but it was on 123rd and she. They sold LPs and 45s and I go there and stay there for about 30, you know, 30 minutes to an hour after school and listen to music with her. No, I like, like I said, I had a. I got a portable turntable when I was. For my birthday when I was 12 or 13, I think I was probably 12. And anything that I played on it, it was something that my mother already had. Or something that she bought for me because she knew I'd like it. You know, I didn't really select the music, you know, she bought me Aretha Franklin. I listened to Aretha Franklin, but I listened to it over and over again, you know, so. But you were asking me about that socially conscious song, the song that I remember, the song that you Can't Take Away My Music. That was the first thing I remember listening to that over and over again because I didn't own it and we didn't have a copy of that. I had to listen to it at my aunt's house. And my aunt, she was infamous for playing one song over and over again, day in and day out, until it just. Until she wore grooves into the record, you know. Oh, man. Sam Cooke, Marvin Gaye. Oh, my God, You. You'd hate to go in the house because you knew. You knew what was playing. You knew what was going to be on, On. On the turntable. It was just. It was awful. "How Sweet It Is (To Be Loved by You)." Oh, my God. I think she must play that song for a year.

Dana Aritonovich [00:30:32] What do you remember? We're gonna veer away a little bit for music. What do you remember about, like the. Like the Hough Riots or the Glenville Riots? Do you remember your mom saying anything or any other family members or even on the radio, them saying anything about the riots at all?

Jamilah Zand [00:30:53] Well, the first riots. The most vivid image that I. My mother was involved in it. But my most vivid image of the riots is when I walked down Superior Avenue after. And saw the after effects. It might have been two or three days later. My aunt lived on 105th and Amor, which was not that far from Superior. And I went with just. We walked a lot, just up and down different neighborhoods. And we heard about the riots. My cousin and I, my cousin Brenda and my cousin Kathy and their friends, we just wanted to see what the effects were of the riot. And I remember stores and buildings being burned out. And the Liberty. The Liberty movie house. And that was like the only place we had to go, you know, because we. You see three movies for 25 cent. Wow. That was a deal. You know, we walked there, you know, on Saturday afternoons or Sundays. That was where we went. And it was just devastating. I remember wondering if it would ever get fixed again. Or if everything was going to be torn down. It was really. It was something. It was a sad. It was sad. I do remember the burned out buildings. And it stayed that way for a couple of years, not a couple decade maybe. It was the after effects were long lasting. I mean like during that time, I mean, I was still pretty young. I wasn't really socially active, you know, and there are a lot of things that kept me from getting involved socially. But when I really started interacting with people other than people that in my immediate family and my race is when I started going to college. So that was a new arena. And that's probably why I love college. I'm a lifelong learning student now. I'll be going and whenever I can afford to go, I, I take a class, you know, just for enrichment. But you know, at one time I was trying to play catch up, trying to get my degree and get back on track and you know, so that I could compete with my peers. But I found that wasn't for me. The harder I chased it, the further away it got. But I just. Now I just know that knowledge for me is for personal enrichment. But that's when I first started interacting with different people, different races, different cultures, different religions, different, you know, just the world just opened up, you know.

Dana Aritonovich [00:34:42] And what do you remember about Carl Stokes getting elected?

Jamilah Zand [00:34:47] Oh, wow. I was in the sixth grade at Captain Arthur, Captain Arthur Roth High School. Elementary school. What am I talking about? Captain Arthur Roth elementary school, sixth grade. My best friend Tony, who went to see the miracles with me and my mom. Me, Tony and a couple of other people went to Carl Stokes sister's house. She lived. I don't know where we were, but I will never forget it. We visited the future. Or was he mayor? I'm not sure he was mayor then, but I think it was campaigning. And we, we went there to his sister's house. For some reason, I guess she wanted to meet some young people from the neighborhood she lived in that, in the Arlington Sinclair neighborhood, Glenville area. And that's. And I did get a chance to meet her. I don't remember her name but I do remember going to her house. I do remember it was Carl Stokes's sister's house. So. Yeah, and it was a great, it was something, something to be proud of, you know. Oh, wow. But before he became mayor, he was a, a local attorney and he represented my mother in some, some affair. I don't remember what. And my mother wasn't totally satisfied with the way he handled her case. But my aunt Lucy, which is my mother's oldest sister, she and my mother would go back and forth, back and forth about Carl Stokes and his virtues. You know, they would go back and forth, back and forth. But she, you know, in the end she was an advocate so.

Dana Aritonovich [00:37:05] And what do you remember about Martin Luther King's assassination? And maybe the reaction of people around Cleveland and your neighborhood?

Jamilah Zand [00:37:21] Hmm. First of all, the march. I can. I remember people in my building, in the building that I lived in. I actually. I remember the lady upstairs and her daughter actually went to the march. I do remember that. So people were involved. I lived in the Woodland neighborhood at that time. So what happened actually, is we lived in the Woodland area, then moved to the Glenville area, then moved to the Kinsman, Mount Pleasant area. And. And our families kind of all move together, you know, except for. Except for when I lived in Woodland, my. Well, it was kind of like one family member was down there, but then she moved out to Kinsman area. So anyway, like I said, Woodland, Glenville, Kinsman, Mount Pleasant, then. Then back to Glenville. So that's kind of how we migrated around Cleveland and Superior. The Superior area. But that was other family members, but it basically. Superior areas, Glenville area. So. So that's kind of how, like, you know, and I. I got off track. I'm sorry. Oh, yeah, right. And. And I was going to tell you. I do remember the. I remember the lady upstairs when we. When we were living on Case Court, she and her daughter went to the march. And when he was assassinated five years later, I was in the eighth grade. It was. Wow. It was just like. It was devastating. Everybody was quiet. It was like, oh, man. I know I wasn't in school for. It must have happened after school let out or something. But it was not like they stopped class classes like when John Kennedy died. When John Kennedy was assassinated. I was in the fourth grade. I never will forget. They stopped classes. Everybody in the school went to the gym. And it was raining. It was November, so, you know, blustery days wasn't uncommon. But I actually. It was just. It was overcast and blustery and wind was blowing, leaves were turning. And I remember sitting at the window looking out, and it was just feeling. Just overwhelmingly sad, you know, even though maybe I didn't understand what assassination was, I just remember looking out that window and it was just so sad. Everything was sad. So that was unforgettable. And mostly, probably it was so memorable because classes were stopped. Yeah. And then, you know, they say we have that United States has that collective consciousness, that collective consciousness about. About his assassination, about John F. Kennedy's assassination. And my mother, when his. What do you call that? Whatever it is they bring in to. So you can view his. No, no, they. No, they. It was not a procession. It was Just a. I guess a collection of his memorabilia. An exhibit with the coconut that he wrote on. You know, I remember that little. And then a couple of pictures and a desk and, you know, things that they brought, memorabilia that belonged to him. And I think it might have been at the public auditorium. I remember my mother taking me to that. And let's see. And then. But. But when Martin Luther King died, the most significant thing that I remember is watching the procession, the mule. The mule train carrying his coffin. And that's. That. That was the most memorable thing. Memorable thing about it to me, because it was not. I don't remember hearing comments or. Maybe I was too busy doing other things, but I didn't listen to adult conversation or, you know, it wasn't a lot of talk about it in school or not in my. Not in the classes that I attended at that time. So Patrick Henry. I don't know.

Dana Aritonovich [00:43:02] Was anybody in your family?

Jamilah Zand [00:43:04] You know, and I have to. I have to also add that I don't think people. I, I. When I was at Patrick Henry, I was not considered bright. I don't think so. I was in one of the. They had sections too, you know. So. I grew up with a lot of problems, but I didn't find out that I had my IQ, how high my IQ actually was until I was 18. I had been stigmatized or labeled. So I wasn't exposed to a lot of heady stuff. Like people in sections 1, 2 and 3 probably discussed those kind of things because they were socially. They were the future leaders of the black race. But if you were in section 7, 8, 9, or anything lower, and I was in section 7, you know, they probably didn't waste time on us. Like they. I didn't learn. Like, I sometimes feel that I could have been good at geometry because I do remember taking geometry for one semester, but then I was quickly ushered out of that class. And I never understood why, but I understood it. So. And see, because I jumped. I did well. I made the honor roll. I was in section 7. I made the honor roll. And then I was ushered into section three, you know, top three. And that's when I took. That's when I was introduced to geometry and I understood geometry and I did well in those classes, but I never got a chance to do that again. I was in 8B in 8A. They put me in another section and. And I think everything. I mean, I was up and down, up and down ever since They. I think they used to call. They used to have this thing called a PLR. personal learning rate and my personal learning rate was 98. And I don't know what that means. I don't know what that means in terms of IQ, but I. It's different. But I found out when I was 18, my, my IQ and it just means how well you take tests. I, I understand that too, but I guess my. Either it improved over time or nobody really just gave me that much attention. But my, my personal. My IQ was actually 122, you know, so I don't know what happened, you know, from the seventh grade to the 12th grade. I don't know. You know, maybe my. And then my. I learned. I did read more. I started reading a lot more. That. So that could have some effect. That might have, you know, that might have been the reason. But what kind of things were you reading? Oh, wow. First book I read that I remember reading and loved was the The Soul Brothers and Sister Lou. Not a doo-wop group I can identify, you know, so I guess that was. Then. Reading out loud in class. I remember The Reflections of Luann. It was in a reader, a primer of some kind. And I do remember the name of the story. It's called The Reflections of Luann. Actually, I had the textbook at home. Like so many other things that I've had in the past, I've lost. It's gone. I lost a lot of stuff along the way, like I told you. So I don't know how this is going to fit into your- Is it anything? Is. I mean, is it working? I mean, is it. Are you getting in any information?

Dana Aritonovich [00:47:47] That's some good kind of things to put everything in context with the music. That's why I ask a lot of different questions that are. Don't seem to be music related, but they're all going to fit in.

Jamilah Zand [00:47:58] Yeah, they. Yeah, because I'm wondering where's the music coming from? I mean, like, but. But everything was music. Like the, like The Temptations were like the soundtrack of my life. I mean, I. I had operations when I was a kid. I had three. Three operations on this ear and one operation on this ear. I had cysts that had to be excised because they used to. They used to swell up and get pus in them and run, so they had to be excised. One, the first, you know, the operation was successful on this ear, but for some reason it kept coming back on this one. So the third and final operation was. That was when I was in the fifth grade. My mother was working, so I had to move with my Auntie Betty. After I got out of the hospital, that's when I went to Iowa-Maple. But the first few days before I went to school, I laid up in bed and guess what? I thought I was the first person to hear "My Girl" by The Temptations on the radio in our house. "My Girl" the first person I was sure. I knew I was the first person to hear it. Then my cousin Curtis came home and said, hey, I heard this new song on the radio. It's called "My Girl" by The Temptations. And I, I said no. Well, and you know, I said, I heard it too. I heard. But they, nobody heard me say that, you know, nobody knew. No, you know, I just didn't, I couldn't get my, my, I heard it first in first, you know, so, so nobody paid attention to me. It was Curtis who heard "My Girl" first on the radio. And I know, you know, I'm sitting up here, I'm sitting, I'm laying up in bed looking at and listening. That's all I have to do is listen to the radio. Or I could have watched television, but it wasn't that much on television during those times.

Dana Aritonovich [00:50:04] You know, what kind of stuff you watch?

Jamilah Zand [00:50:07] Oh, wow. Didn't watch TV that much. I actually we listened to radio more than we did television. But television we liked Sing Along with Mitch. I do remember that before they started developing programs for a Black audience, there wasn't a whole lot to choose from. From, I mean, comedy, because, I mean, you could, I. And especially if you're a kid, you can identify with this is Mister Ed, you know, a talking horse. But some stuff was just so not real. It just didn't touch our reality. It just, you know, so it wasn't, it was so out there. If you identify, if you identify with it, you know, you were probably a social outcast.

Dana Aritonovich [00:51:12] So what about like variety shows? You mentioned American Bandstand, right?

Jamilah Zand [00:51:17] Yeah, I know.

Dana Aritonovich [00:51:18] Upbeat was a show that was from.

Jamilah Zand [00:51:20] Right, right. As a matter of fact, my, my sister in law, my. Yeah, well, Tia actually is the only one I had used to dance on Upbeat. And I had cousins that danced on. Oh, wow. The other show. I can't remember the name of it anymore. Anyway, there was another little program on Cleveland, variety show that my cousins used to dance on. They, they danced on that show because they had the pretty legs. They had the, they used to win all the pretty leg contests, you know.

Dana Aritonovich [00:52:02] What do you remember about the Upbeat Show?

Jamilah Zand [00:52:04] Ah, with Don Webster.

Dana Aritonovich [00:52:08] That Webster.

Jamilah Zand [00:52:09] Yeah, Don Webster. Don Webster. I remember him. That was nice. It was good it was. It was like local shindig. It was, you know, it was kind of. It wasn't as fancy as shindig, but it was good. So we used to. We did watch shindig and Ed Sullivan and, you know, and Carol Burnett, you know, variety shows. We did watch. I did. I do remember what, watching variety shows. Yeah.

Dana Aritonovich [00:52:47] And was anybody in your family?

Jamilah Zand [00:52:49] And my mother used to. Oh, yeah, my mother like Frank Sinatra. She has some of his albums. Frank Sinatra, Andy Williams, Barbra Streisand. I don't- I don't know how I forgot this bar. Oh, she loved Barbara. Oh, my mom love Barbara. Peggy Lee. Yes. Every. She had a few scattered throughout her. But, you know, the majority of her listening was, you know, African American. But she did have other artists. And like I said, she. She loved music. And I actually think she had an album by Hank Williams. I do. I don't know where she got it from. I know I. There was actually one Hank Williams album in my mother's collection.

Dana Aritonovich [00:53:47] I know one of the things, when I've done my research, because I think the perception these days is that, you know, like in the early days of rock and roll and the country music was starting to get popular then too, because country music was just as marginalized as Black music on the radio. And after World War II, a lot of independent radio stations did. Started, you know, getting licensed, which they couldn't get from, like the '30s. And then the war was over and everybody could do, you know, was a little bit more free to start their own station. So country music was kind of coming up at the same time that rhythm and blues was coming up on the radio, at least so that other audiences would be exposed. So there were a lot of Black music fans who listen to country music and, yeah, Elvis and all that.

Jamilah Zand [00:54:24] Right.

Dana Aritonovich [00:54:25] A lot of people today think, you know, well, Elvis was only for white people.

Jamilah Zand [00:54:29] But that really was not true at all. Okay. And that's another thing. Growing up, Elvis was fascinating. If there was an Elvis movie on, like Blue Hawaii or something like that, we watching it, we're watching it. And then I had a cousin, but see, Deborah. Okay. I grew up with Deborah and Curtis. I have mentioned their names before. Okay. Deborah was the kind of person she liked Al Jolson. Now, that was just way out. I couldn't now, like I said, social outcast now, but now I couldn't get with that. That is something I never really understood. Deborah actually liked Al Jolson and her mindset, I think. And she used to collect the TV Guide covers, you know, TV Guide. They used to have a star on the back cover of all the TV Guides. And my cousin used to collect the covers. And so, you know, like. Like Hayley Mills, you know, the pop artists, you know, Frankie Avalon, whoever it was, you know, she used to. But I wouldn't do that. They. They weren't my idols. They, they. You know, they. I. They were strangers to me. But she felt like she was part of their family, you know, So I guess she. What. And I never understood that. That is something I never. She liked Al Jolson. She bought his records and listened to them. I mean, some white folks don't even like Al Jolson. This one. This girl. And she probably doesn't talk about it as much, but when she was. I guess when she was in her early 20s, she finally. She just made up her mind. I'm gonna. I'm gonna be Al Jolsonph fan, and I don't care who knows it, you know, so. And. And then the sentiment was be. Say it loud. I'm black and I'm proud. And she. She just kind of went. Did a flip, a total flip, you know. So it was kind of strange to watch that dynamic. You know, it was you one. I actually wondered if she's crazy, you know.

Dana Aritonovich [00:57:05] Was she the only one in your family that was?

Jamilah Zand [00:57:08] She is the only person in my family that I know that admits to liking Al Jolson. I don't like him. I mean, I will watch him. I. I think I may have seen him. And the other guy, his counterpart, his contemporary, Al Jolson had a contemporary, used to sing in blackface also. Or. Or his songs were just as whiny and tangy as his. The other guy. Eddie Cantor. Yeah, Eddie Cantor. She liked both of them. How would I know their names if I didn't know who she liked? You know what I'm saying? This stuff is ingrained. This stuff is in my mind because she actually talked about them. You know, she watched any movie, any Black and white movie with Al Jolson or Eddie Cantor, and she watched it. And I couldn't change. We couldn't change the channel because she's the oldest and she gets to watch what she wants. So that's. That's how that kind of stuff trickled into my memory, you know?

Dana Aritonovich [00:58:14] Yeah, but you guys liked Elvis movies and stuff.

Jamilah Zand [00:58:17] But we did. I did like Elvis movies growing up. And, and then later, as I was growing up and, you know, getting socialized into my blackness, I was. I. I heard that Elvis said. Had said Black woman couldn't do anything for him but shine his shoes and cook his food.

Dana Aritonovich [00:58:42] See, I think that's, that's a misquote because a lot of stuff that I've read from him in the '50s, and he wasn't political, like to make political statements, but he did speak out against segregation. But I mean, I've heard people quote that exact thing too. And I think that was taken out of context. I mean, Elvis grew up with Black people and he shopped at the Black stores and he listened to Black music.

Jamilah Zand [00:59:05] And well, I know he listened to Black music. That's a major influence on his music.

Dana Aritonovich [00:59:10] And, and he always gave credit to those artists, you know, you know, Arthur Crudup and all the people that he listened to and Big Joe Turner, I mean, he gave credit. He didn't. But I think the perception today, especially with younger, you know, music fans and, and a lot of, you know, rap stars say this too, that he was just racist and he stole Black music. And I mean, what would do, do you, do you agree with that? Did you think you can steal music? That's, to me what it boils down to. Are you influenced by it or are you just stealing it and calling it yours?

Jamilah Zand [00:59:38] That's a, I think that's very narrow minded perception. You can't really, I mean, if you find some basic style that fits you, it's just like, you know, it's not, it's, it's not one size fits all. It's not like that. But it is. Mostly it can all be. Music is universal. You can live anywhere and hear music and understand what's being said. You can understand the thought that's being conveyed. You feel it. It's just, You can't steal, can't be stolen. You might subscribe to one particular style of music because you like that style and you're familiar with it, but you can't really steal a style of music. You can copy it, you, you can incorporate it in your own, but you can't really steal it because it's something, it's a gift. And you can't steal a gift because it's something. Yeah, it doesn't belong to anybody. It belongs to everybody. It belongs to the universe. So it's not something that you can steal, but you can share. That's something you can do. It can be shared universally, probably globally. You know, it's galactically. I know that they say that the airwaves go out into the universe. What is it? Indefinitely into infinity or whatever. Whoever is hearing the music is understanding what we're saying and understanding our culture. Because music is just that all encompassing, you know, so. Yeah.

Dana Aritonovich [01:01:47] Was anybody in your family politically active or, you know, were they in the NAACP or any other community groups like that Future Outlook League? Do you remember anybody being active more than just going out to vote?

Jamilah Zand [01:02:01] Well, I have one that they call the Social Worker, my mother's oldest sister, and that's where a lot of us got our leads from, believe it or not. She is. She was sort of like the matriarch of the family. And she really kind of. I mean, you have to give credit where credit is. She sort of led the way for a lot of us. She was active in the NAACP. She was. She's active in Urban League. She was active in Tuesday Talkers, which was. Which is a part of the International Toastmistress Club. She was. She. She volunteers to tutor children to read. And I mean, she's always doing something socially to keep herself socially active. And, and she's always set an example, you know, and if. When she. She's in her 80s now and she doesn't do it as much, but, you know, when she was younger, if. And then there are a lot of her. Actually she only has one sibling left, and that's her youngest brother. She's the oldest sister, and her youngest brother is the only sibling that's left. And there were 11 of them. My mother was part of that 11. So when she was younger and her brothers and sisters were alive, she was, you know, always going over here to do this for this sister or over there to do this for that brother and making sure that somebody went to their appointment or making sure that somebody paid this bill, you know, or doing, you know, and that's why they called the show Social Worker. But while she was doing all that, she was also educating us and, and talking about the issues and, you know, but. And see, that's something. I don't remember Auntie Lucy being around when Martin Luther King died. Maybe if she had been around during that period, I might have remembered more or she might have brought something to my attention. But when he died, I remember watching the funeral on TV and I was over my Aunt Betty's house, and basically all they did was drink and smoke and play cards and dance and listen to music. And like I said, she played How Sweet It Is for a year, I swear. So, you know, it wasn't. It wasn't in that same environment. But see, like I said, she was very- She was like our- She was the- Or is, I shouldn't say was because she's still alive. She was sort of like our Gauge. You know, social gauge, or she was always, you know, showing us the way, kind of like. Yeah. So. And she's very conservative. Ah. Actually believe one of her sons is a Republican. She's got two sons. Yeah. One of her sons is a Republican.

Dana Aritonovich [01:05:28] Well, I know early on, Republican Party was. Was Black.

Jamilah Zand [01:05:32] Yeah.

Dana Aritonovich [01:05:32] Yeah. Well, Abe Lincoln freed the slaves. He was a Republican.

Jamilah Zand [01:05:33] Yeah, right up and. Because actually, the class I'm taking now, this what we were just talking about yesterday and kind of when that switch happened, you know, right after World War II, when Truman integrated the military and then, you know, all the Jim Crow stuff that was going on and all that. And then the Democrats started kind of the Democrats who now we would consider Republicans were the most racist people in the country. And they were all members of the Klan and the Democratic Party, and they kind of split off and they become like Strom Thurmond and Jesse Helms and those guys, and they became Republicans. That's when the switch kind of happened. Because it's weird to hear about, like, oh, yeah, I've heard every Black person in the United States, for everyone who voted, they were all Republicans. Because you don't, you know, and once in a while I meet a Black Republican or something. It's like.

Jamilah Zand [01:06:21] Yeah, right.

Dana Aritonovich [01:06:22] It's like a gay Republican.

Jamilah Zand [01:06:23] And they're not. And they're. And he's not a Clarence Thomas, like, Republican.

Dana Aritonovich [01:06:27] Yeah. You know, excuse me.

Jamilah Zand [01:06:30] Yeah, it's. I'm getting over a cold. It really knocked me out. Yeah. I don't know. It's- I think his Republicanism is probably based in, like, the right-to-life, you know, and stuff like that. He is staunchly opposed to abortion, so maybe that would be the reason why he's tipping to that side.

Dana Aritonovich [01:07:18] Usually when I've come across people who aren't usually the ones who are Republicans, whether they're gay or Black or, you know, it's usually an issue like that that makes them stay Republican because it's kind of like it's not like a moral issue of some kind that makes them vote Republican, which, you know, that's. That's fine. It just seems strange to most people.

Jamilah Zand [01:07:40] Right.

Dana Aritonovich [01:07:41] What do you think? Obviously, music has been a part of your life for your whole life, and what. What do you think the role of that particular music that you grew up with? What do you. What do you think that role it played in society? How do you. Do you think it changed anything as far as race relations or, you know, moving towards a better world? That eventually we have Barack Obama, we have more representation, politically speaking, it's obviously not where we should be. Do you think music had anything to do with the way people interacted with each other?

Jamilah Zand [01:08:15] Oh, yeah, definitely. Oh, wow. Wow. Yes, I do. I. It's just if it wasn't. Excuse me. If it wasn't for the music, I mean, like, Okay, in Cleveland, Downtown Cleveland, they used to have summer block parties and they put up these stages and I guess local groups would come and sing and. And it was just everybody from all communities would come to these block parties. If it wasn't for the music, what would bring all these people together? I mean, that was in the late '60s and early '70s, and I think they did it maybe for three or four years. That's when I. J. Fox was still downtown and Bonds and Woolworths and Kresge's, Orange Julius, when these places were still on Euclid and- See how old I am? And Cole shoes and makeup and Higbee's and Halle's and- Oh, my God, they used to have these little stages and people- I mean, it was just fun. And I mean, people were singing and dancing. They know the songs. They. Music brings people together. Together. And. And. And sometimes it doesn't matter. I mean, you could. You could have a band playing the poker somewhere, and you'll find people from different races and cultures, you know, in the audience. It's just music just brings people together.

Dana Aritonovich [01:10:19] And what do you think. For young people today who don't know anything about any of these music and they don't know and they don't care, what do you wish they knew about the stuff that you grew up with that was really important, you know, not just to you personally, but, you know, to the culture at that time, music was in everything that people did. What do you wish that young people would learn from that?

Jamilah Zand [01:10:49] Let me think about this, because I. I've thought about it a lot. I've thought about this a lot, and I haven't been able to put it in words before, but. I think young people are just limiting themselves. They are not allowing themselves to feel or experience love. They're constantly talking about hate and negativity, and it's just not. It is not conducive to understanding and feeling what love is. And the songs we grew up with talked about love, love, love. Everything was about love, you know, Ain't too proud to beg, you know, oh, my God. Love the tracks of my tears Ooh, baby, baby, you know it was love. We, you know, Baby, love me, you know, Love me please, you know, give me some love and. And you know, my. I. I don't care if you hate me. And you can hate me for a little. I. Oh, my. It's just. Yeah. The thing that I would like young people to learn would be how to really know what love is. And I'm not saying they don't, but if they're using the music to guide them as an example what love is, they're not getting it. They're not getting their full dose of love. They're gonna. They're getting a large dose of negativity and. And. And it. And it can't help but affect the way they view the world. So. I don't want you to, you know, don't be a hater just because I'm beautiful. You know? This. Let me see. Let me show you.

Dana Aritonovich [01:13:15] Okay.

Jamilah Zand [01:13:18] I bought this just because I went to his concert. I went to his concert because I wanted to see her. Here it is. Okay. Listen to the title of this song. Used to love you. Okay. Where is it at? All right. Let's get lifted. I don't know. It's something in here. It. The. The lyrics just don't ring true to me. They. They. They. It's just kind of off sides or something anyway. But I went to this concert so that I could see her. She was. She was second. She had second billing on it. But I. I didn't want to mention.

Dana Aritonovich [01:14:16] Oh, no, it's fine. You can.

Jamilah Zand [01:14:17] Okay. I went to the John Legend concert so I could see India.Arie, but that's who I really went to see. I wanted to see Andre, but John Legend's brother. I didn't know it was John Legend's brother at the time. Vaughn Anthony opened the show, and then Andre sang, and then John Legend came on. There was a. I had only known John Legend for one song, and I liked that song. See, just a little bit. Love for me. Now that is a real love song. I just love that song. It's just got a. It's got a nice little jumpy or jaunty ditty to it, you know? And. And I'm not saying that all his songs have to be that way, but that is one song that stuck in my mind, you know, it was. It brought me back to old school, and it made me feel, you know, that some. Some young people still. Still appreciate melody, you know, so that was. I. He didn't even sing that. Yeah, so go figure. But I did. I did go and see him because I wanted to see Andre. There are a couple of things that I like of her, too. I like Brown Girl. And I. I mean, everything that she sings does not. You know, I'm kind of have mixed feelings about some of the things she sings, you know, But I do like the majority of her stuff.

Dana Aritonovich [01:15:55] And are there any other artists that are contemporary that you think? Not that you can compare them to anybody, you know, from. From past, but is there anybody you think it has a voice that you're going to be listening to, like, 30, 40, 50 years from now is right?

Jamilah Zand [01:16:08] Cassandra Wilson, Dianne Reeves, John Legend. I think he's. I think his style is maturing. Well, male vocalist. I'm kind of stuck in the. I'm kind of stuck in the ’80s and the ’90s. I mean, everybody on Facebook was talking about Jay-Z's concert. I can't name one Jay-Z title, you know, I'm sorry, I can't.

Dana Aritonovich [01:17:07] Probably not a bad thing, though.

Jamilah Zand [01:17:15] There are some artists out there that I know that I like.

Dana Aritonovich [01:17:18] Do you think that the fact that you can just, you know, name like, 50 people from, you know, 40 years ago, do you think it's because the times were different? They just produce those kind of artists and things are so. I mean, these days. Like, the person I interviewed yesterday, we talked a lot about this and how you can individualize everything. You don't have to listen to any music you don't like. You can program everything on your iPod, on your computer, and you can only expose yourself to things that you already know you like. And back then, your only way to find things out was TV and radio. And now there's millions of ways. Do you think we could have artists like The Temptations or like James Brown or Nina Simone? Do you think we could have anybody like that now or. The time is just so different and the technology is so different that it's just not possible, because we obviously have social issues that need to be talked about and political things and war and all that, but nobody's. Nobody's really talking about it or is there just not an audience for it?

Jamilah Zand [01:18:18] Well, it's definitely. It's definitely the times. I mean, you have to put it on. The time is. It is the Times. Because, I mean, like you said, the radio and television, and unless you had a cb, you know, unless you know how to get on, unless you had a ham radio, that's the only other way he was going to get some information, you know, or Morse code. So you had to. You were dependent on what was available, which was radio, and. And. And some things you. I mean, you had to listen to the things you didn't like as well as things you liked. I mean, because you had to listen to the. Rate the, the DJs playlist, you know, you didn't have a. And some things you don't, you listen to them anyway. Even though it wasn't your favorite, you still listen to it, you know. Wow. That's how one of this one song grew on me. I mean, I didn't really like the song, but then it suddenly started growing on me. This song called I Love You 1,000 Times. Have you ever heard that? Remember the love notes the teacher found in school? Whole class laughing Me felt just like a fool but here comes a very funny, funny line I had to write it 1000 times that I love you, I love you now that song grew on me and I grew to love that song. And I didn't like it at first. And so, you know, and, and, and that's another thing I'm talking about, see now? And I had to write it a thousand times. I love you, I love you. You can't find that in the lyrics of these songs. I mean, and this is just a simple. It's just a simple thought, you know, but it's something that it's the first thing you think of instead of, you know, when you're looking for. When your mind is searching for something to lift you up, you know, and when you're looking for a phrase, sometimes I find myself singing a snatch of a song that I haven't heard in years. But it's something that. I don't know what's been floating around in my head. And all of a sudden it's coming out and I'm saying, wow, where did that come from? I can't even remember all the words to it. I don't even know the name of the song. But it's coming out. And I, and I can. And then, and then I start remembering where I was and what I was doing and you know, and who I was with or, you know, and it's like I said, the music is a soundtrack of my life. You know, everybody has a soundtrack and they know where they were when they heard a certain song and what they were doing. So the music that you're talking about, the music of the ’50s and 60s, if you mention a song, I can probably tell you what I was doing or where I was when I heard it. And you know, I could probably tell you what dance was out too.

Dana Aritonovich [01:21:52] Well, that's another thing too. People danced and there were names. There's. People are just doing one kind of dancing. They don't really call it anything. They're just like. And everybody's doing the same kind of thing. And music is not really danceable these days. I don't think there's a couple things out there once in a while. But I mean, unless you go. Unless you're, like, listening to, like, dance music, you know, like techno type stuff.

Jamilah Zand [01:22:15] Right.

Dana Aritonovich [01:22:15] It's not like there's, you know, lyrics that you can really understand and relate to. So, yeah, the dancing aspect of it is because, I mean, all these, like, American Bandstand and upbeat and all that, there were people dancing to every single song. You know, they could find something that they could move to. And I don't think you find that a lot these days either.

Jamilah Zand [01:22:33] Well.

Dana Aritonovich [01:22:33] Which is not necessarily a bad thing. It's just.

Jamilah Zand [01:22:35] Well, I. I do think some of the. Some of the. Some dances do have names. I just don't know what they are. I've heard actually. I've actually seen. I don't know. I don't know. I caught a glimpse of something on TV where they were. They. They hadn't actually named a dance. And I was surprised. But. Yeah, I think there are some names for some of the dances, but I'm not sure what they are.

Dana Aritonovich [01:23:05] There's nothing like a twist that everybody's doing.

Jamilah Zand [01:23:08] Right? Right.

Dana Aritonovich [01:23:10] Have. There's nothing like that anymore.

Jamilah Zand [01:23:12] Right.

Dana Aritonovich [01:23:12] We don't have those kinds.

Jamilah Zand [01:23:13] Twist. Mashed potatoes. Philly dog. The. Oh, the Monkey Swim. Yeah. Jerk. Yeah. Popcorn.

Dana Aritonovich [01:23:29] Anything else you'd like to add?

Jamilah Zand [01:23:33] I don't know. Do you have- I don't know. You had this one, one last important question to ask.

Dana Aritonovich [01:23:39] I kind of asked everything in different orders. I mean, whoever I talk to, depending on how the conversation goes, I usually get to all the questions just in a different order. I think that's really it. Unless there's some, like, last philosophical thing you want to say about the music that you love.

Jamilah Zand [01:23:56] Well, I think that's probably. You know, I mentioned that my mother had one Hank Williams album.

Dana Aritonovich [01:24:03] And.

Jamilah Zand [01:24:04] And like I said, my mother liked all kinds of music. She took me to see Duke Ellington. She took me. I can't. I didn't go to a classical concert with her. But she did have Tchaikovsky’s Concerto No. 5 in her collection. I used to do Alpha. I used to, you know, put them in alphabetical order. So I remember that it had a blue, you know, flowers blooming on the spring, flowers blooming on the album cover. Tchaikovsky’s Concerto No. 5. I never will forget some Things, you know, just stick with you. Like the Hank Williams. Now I, now that I, I can actually confirm she did have one Hank Williams album. And I'm saying that to say I even like some country and western. I like Bonnie Raitt and I, I won I one time. I once owned the album where Bonnie Raitt and B.B. King did a duet. There was a. Several duets with country and western artists, with rhythm and blues artists, and I forget the name of the album, but if you look it up, you probably can find the title. Just look for something with Bonnie Raitt and B.B. King doing a duet. And you. I'm sure that leads you to the John Lee Hooker one time too.

Dana Aritonovich [01:25:29] Like in the late 80s when she kind of came back.

Jamilah Zand [01:25:34] Well, this was in the '90s, okay, this was in the '90s. I bought- I do remind you by- I do remember buying the CD in '90. It was probably '96 or '97. I had a really nice collection. Lost my home or lost, you know, lost my apartment, lost and lost everything. Eventually I put stuff in storage and didn't pay. And then so I- There was- This happened to me a couple of times in my life. So, you know, I just try and keep it simple and I- Like I said before, I'm just grateful to be here because if I wasn't here, I'd probably be out on the street again. So. But my mother's legacy to me was music of all kinds. And maybe she was subconsciously trying to broaden my horizons to prepare me for, you know, a larger world. You know, a world that wasn't, you know, confined by. By this physical being. You know, my mother was. Oh wow. She was. She was a lot of things, but mostly she was open-minded. She tried to be. She really tried hard to be. And she tried to be a mom and a dad, but she could probably. She didn't succeed too well at being the dad, but she. She tried to be. She. I don't think she did too bad of a job raising me, but I do have issues. I don't think she did too bad of a job. I know she did a lot of things for me that stick with me all my life. I know how to clean a house. I know how to clean a refrigerator and a stove. I know how to. And sometimes you look at people and you wonder do they really think that's clean? You know, we watch them watch to clean something off and you wonder if they really believe is that the best they can do? And it. And it's because you don't know any better. And you and you. And they can't help. They were never taught. If they weren't taught, they don't know. So I'm saying just the littlest, smallest things, you know? So. So. So everything she did wasn't all bad. And I love her for what she did give me that sticks with me and stays with me and makes me happy. So. And music was one of them, the great lesson.

Dana Aritonovich [01:28:29] Thank you so much for your time. We're going to hit. That's one of the longest ones I've done so far. It's great.

Jamilah Zand [01:28:35] Yeah.

Dana Aritonovich [01:28:36] Thank you.

Jamilah Zand [01:28:36] You're welcome. Wow. Yeah.

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