Abstract

Three members of Recon, a subdivision of the politically active urban performance group The Shogun Assassins, discuss their involvement at the Ingenuity Festival. The members discuss their backgrounds and philosophy in depth, explaining how Cleveland's economic and social structure influences their progressive social agenda and performance. Discussions of race, class, and economic oppression detail the performers opinion of Cleveland as fertile ground for the broader struggle in America against oppression and the role of art in that struggle.

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Interviewee

O'Neal, Malikee (interviewee); Paythress, Malkiese (interviewee); James, Tunisia (interviewee)

Interviewer

Hons, Justin (interviewer); Yanoshik-Wing, Emma (interviewer)

Project

Ingenuity Fest

Date

7-16-2006

Document Type

Oral History

Duration

35 minutes

Transcript

Justin Hons [00:00:00] I can have everybody just state their name and the date.

Malikee O’Neal [00:00:02] [laughs] Serial number, bank routing number, and account number. Go ahead, man.

Malkiese Paythress [00:00:14] What’s up?

Justin Hons [00:00:14] Just state your name.

Malkiese Paythress [00:00:15] Okay. My name is Nab 1. You know what I’m saying? It’s July 16, 2006. You know what I’m saying? Sunday of the Ingenuity Festival, you know what I’m saying? Relaxing, you know what I’m saying? Chilling with J Urban, Guerrilla Radio.

Tunisia James [00:00:33] My name is Tunisia James, and we can get in too deep if you like. It’s Sunday, July 16th. I want to thank Guerrilla Radio for this interview and opportunity.

Malikee O’Neal [00:00:45] Yeah, my name is Malachi. Sunday, July 16th. I’m hot. 

Justin Hons [00:00:53] All right. And just to clarify, this is actually an oral history project.

Malkiese Paythress [00:00:57] Okay.

Justin Hons [00:00:57] So separate from a Guerrilla Radio thing. So, you know.

Malkiese Paythress [00:01:00] Okay.

Justin Hons [00:01:02] It’s an oral history project of Cleveland that goes through the Cleveland State History department.

Malikee O’Neal [00:01:07] Oh, wow. That’s what’s up. Gonna be canonized.

Justin Hons [00:01:14] Okay, so let me just start off. Let me ask, what group are you guys from?

Malkiese Paythress [00:01:23] Recon’s a subdivision of Shogun Assassins, you know what I’m saying, you know, Recon, you know, military terms and stuff, reconnaissance, you know what I’m saying? Kind of like the forefront, you know I’m saying? The Steppers, you know what I’m saying, tell you, tell you what it is, you know what I’m saying, eyes and ears and stuff, you know what I’m saying, for the squad, stepping into battle, and stuff like that, you know.

Malikee O’Neal [00:01:45] That’s what’s up.

Justin Hons [00:01:47] And what are you doing here at Ingenuity?

Tunisia James [00:01:49] We did spoken word at Hilarities today. Political. It was very political. Very uplifting, energizing, mind-stimulating.

Justin Hons [00:02:01] What were some of the things you talked about in your performance today?

Tunisia James [00:02:03] We talked about Mumia, for one, you know, issues, social issues, and as far as just life, things that we’ve gone through, things that we see, prejudice, unprejudiced things. Basically making you more consciously aware of the world without lying, but without the cussing, without the yelling, but at the same time, words and anger. Poetical threat.

Justin Hons [00:02:33] What motivated you to come here to Ingenuity this weekend to do that?

Malikee O’Neal [00:02:39] It was a way to, you know what I’m saying, reach out to people that we don’t normally reach out to because we’re, you know what I’m saying, we’re mostly like a hip-hop poetry crew. And you know, like, when we performed, it was like mostly all white people in the crowd. A lot of people were, like, really feeling us. And, you know what I’m saying, that made us feel good, that, you know what I’m saying, we got to go up in establishments that on normal terms, we couldn’t even afford to get into and talk about the bourgeoisie and revolution and have, you know what I’m saying, people that could afford to be in there, like actually feel what we were talking about, you know, so I thought that was cool.

Tunisia James [00:03:22] Definitely.

Justin Hons [00:03:24] Give me an example of one of the poems that you performed today and a response that you received from.

Malkiese Paythress [00:03:33] All right, kick a verse from falling. What’s your world and who’s on top? Why is that? Did you give them that stunner society breaking your back? Where’s the placement in life you lead? Unnerved, unorganized, please, you falling for it, falling, you’re falling for it. Social status is the beast, false divinity. Always watching, listening, breeding hate towards low class levels, working class liabilities nonexistent to the wellbeings of your heads of state, their estate and the privilege of the bureaucratic top players of the machine. The so-called voice of free society. We both pay them, they punish we. Ain’t no getting back up. But if you slack up, you [fixing] to get broke or broke up because they love lavish cream all the finer things. Stop and stare. You don’t receive these things. The untold truth, amount of reasoning has burned you. Bless me. So all about the glamour kings and queens. Activism is absentee. People putting trust and work proportionate.

Justin Hons [00:04:19] What kind of response did you get to that?

Malkiese Paythress [00:04:22] You know, people liked it, you know what I’m saying? It’s like, it’s good to come out, you know what I’m saying? I mean, this is the Ingenuity, you know what I’m saying? It’s good for people to come out and receive a message, you know what I’m saying? Because nowadays laws and social media, social situations and stuff got a lot of people, you know what I’m saying misconceived and you got and still deliver a message, you know, dealing with the Ingenuity, you have to make it, you have to deliver that message. You have to give it to them in genuine, you know what I’m saying? You have to show some ingenuity when you’re giving it to them, you know what I’m saying, because they are locking people up for words, you know what I’m saying? They have been, you know, for visual arts, you know what I’m saying, performance art and stuff like that. You know, this country has been knocking people down for just trying to live their message through, you know, even positive medium. So it’s, you know, it’s fun to come out and represent and people receive that, you know what I’m saying, and to people for the crowd to respect that and like, wow, you know, dang, you know what I’m saying, you kicked it like this, you gave it like this, but you’re still giving us, you know, you’re giving us something, you know, not just playing with our heads. You’re actually, you know, giving us a message to think about and stuff, you know, and that’s what’s fun about it, you know, and that’s what’s beautiful about it, you know what I’m saying? You see people, you see the crowd, you know what I’m saying, feeling that, you know.

Justin Hons [00:05:39] I’m gonna just ask you to try to lean to the mic a little bit whenever you’re talking. I know there’s a lot of stuff going on outside. Who, out of the three here, where are you originally from in relation to the city of Cleveland?

O’Neal James [00:05:57] Actually, me, Tunisia, I’m from Oakland, California, and I’ve been in the Cleveland area for a little over a year. It’s different. [laughs] It’s not as diverse as the Bay Area, but that’s why I was very pleased with coming to the Ingenuity Festival and being able to put diversity into my poetry and let people know that since, I mean, being from America, being in the US, everything is very- It’s about technicalities. So it was very good to get technical with my art. So I enjoyed that.

Justin Hons [00:06:34] What was the biggest difference that you noticed when you first came here?

Tunisia James [00:06:40] The diversity. The lack of diversity. Let’s see. Growing up in the Bay Area, San Francisco Bay Area, it’s a lot of diversity, a lot of culture consciousness. You’re very aware of what’s going on here. I didn’t really didn’t see it. Even with the schools, you know, it was a lot of prejudice, even with alternative lifestyles. And you just can’t be that judgmental with anything in life, because if you only know if all you know is the suburbs or all you know, is the ghetto, then there’s no way that you can expand outside of that life. You have to know different things. And that’s the one thing that I did appreciate about growing up in the Bay Area. It wasn’t just one thing. You got to see so many different things, and I’m seeing that here, you know, and I do enjoy that.

Malikee O’Neal [00:07:38] I lived in Cleveland most of my life. I lived in Cleveland most of my life. I lived in Kent and Brunswick, and I’ve been an activist-organizer for about 15 years in the city of Cleveland, mostly focusing on issues around Mumia Abu Jamal and police brutality. And one of the ways I’ve always tried to organize is through hip hop. And you know what I’m saying, we’re just getting Recon off the ground. But I think that there’s a lot of potential to do something like what we’re trying to do because people have just been fed so much dead-end solutions. And you know, Cleveland is like the poorest city in the country. It’s got so many problems. And you know, what we’re saying is like we’re offering a solution to this stuff that instead of these dead end desperate means that a lot of people who are up against the wall, you know what I’m saying, kind of get forced into taking like we’re saying, you know, you don’t have to go out here and sell drugs and you know what I’m saying, gang bang and all this stuff that if you’re going to be hard and if you don’t like the way things are, that we have to start organizing our communities to fight back. We can’t just take it. We can’t take social issues and try to come up with personal solutions to it. You know what I’m saying? These are social problems. We have to have social solutions to them. And we’re trying to inject some hope in people. I think that’s the main things. Like people in this city don’t have no hope. They just been beat down and beat down and beat down, lied to by, you know what I’m saying, administration after administration and you know, we’re doing what we can do, you know, I don’t know what the future holds. All I know is I’m gonna keep fighting for a different kind of future than the one that establishment is trying to bring in the band.

Malkiese Paythress [00:09:47] I’m from, originally from Arizona, from Tucson. I’ve been out here, you know, basically for the most part since 1992. And you know, the biggest difference between Arizona and Cleveland and Ohio and stuff is, I mean, number one, you know what I’m saying, to me Cleveland is more of a, is more inner- Cleveland is more inner city, you know what I’m saying it’s a grimy, it’s grimy out here, you know, and being out here, you know what I’m saying since ’92, I, you know, I came out here when I was 16 and I started to come of age out here and I noticed some things about established. Cleveland is grimy too, you know what I’m saying, it’s like he said, you know what I’m saying, it’s got the people beat up, you know what I’m saying, knocked down, you know what I’m saying? And it kind in a sense Cleveland’s kind of like a city comes off to me, you know what I’m saying, as a city that, you know, sometimes people kind of kind of like they’ve been beat up so much, you know, is in desperate means, you know, they sit up and instead of looking for, you know what I’m saying. [00:10:50] Instead of saying, hey, let’s just get up as a people, you know what I’m saying, we’re not hand. We’re not having this. You know, it’s kind of been like a sleeping giant, you know, just continually getting beat down, you know, I mean, and there are factions within the city of resistance, you know, within the city that are resisting, you know what I’m saying, that future, that are, you know, that a messed up establishment is trying to do, but. And trying to bring for us, you know what I’m saying, but I know there are factions, you know, they are trying to, you know, hey, you know, standing up for the community and stuff, you know, we’re not having this, you know what I’m saying, let’s do it like this, you know what I’m saying, with, you know, with or without, you know what I’m saying, their positive- The establishment’s positive backing or anybody’s positive backing, you know what I’m saying, I do like that about Cleveland, because there are social resistance fronts, you know what I’m saying, that again, you know, trying to get our people off the drugs, you know what I’m saying, trying to keep our people out of jail, trying to keep our people- You know, when I say people, I mean as a whole, you know what I’m saying, as a whole of the whole community, you know what I’m saying? And it’s just like, you know, I’m just- I just hope that, you know what I’m saying? That, it’s like the social segregations inside the greater Cleveland area and greater Ohio area and stuff, you know what I’m saying, I just hope that they can come to a oneness, you know what I’m saying, I’ve seen- It’s possible, you know what I’m saying, but it’s just when you got the boulder rolling, you know, you got to keep pushing the boulder and stuff, you know, so, you know, it’s kind of like Cleveland’s kind of tired of pushing that boulder, you know what I’m saying? But it’s like, nah, man, you know what I’m saying? If you get a little bit leverage, you get a little bit momentum, you got to push harder, you know what I’m saying? Not just sit back and be like, we got it rolling a little bit. You gotta be like, all right, we gotta roll in a little bit. Come on, let’s push it then, you know what I’m saying?

Justin Hons [00:12:34] It seems that race is very central to a lot of the work that your group does. Why is that?

Malkiese Paythress [00:12:46] You know, I say, you know, this one, like I said, about social segregations inside Cleveland, inside Ohio and stuff, you know, I mean, it’s every- It’s all over this country it’s all over the world, you know what I’m saying? But I mean, race and class, you know what I’m saying, have a lot to do about the misunderstanding of people rising and the misunderstanding of what makes people fall, you know, and this is a very well-demonstrated city of that, you know what I’m saying this area, this Midwest area is a well-demonstrated vert, you know what I’m saying scenery of, you know what I’m saying segregation, you know what I’m saying, class systems, you know what I’m saying all that, you know, I mean, and it stays relevant to me because, you know, as long as it’s- As long as it’s a heavy segregated area, you know, as long as it’s very separated, you know what I’m saying, and those mind states are separated, you know what I’m saying, hey, it’s for, you know what I’m saying, that’s why I keep my focus on, you know what I’m saying, either knocking it, knocking that wall down, you know what I’m saying, blowing through that wall or whatever, you know what I’m saying? I’ve been in a lot of situations in my life, you know what I’m saying, class and race wise, you know, and it’s like I’ve been on a lot of different sides of the fences, you know what I’m saying, in the big grid, you know what I’m saying? And it’s like, man, you know, I see. I’ve seen. I’ve seen what can happen when positive, when positivity comes out from, you know, knocking them, knocking them walls down, you know what I’m saying where them fences, you know what I’m saying the fences that. Keeping us from the Joneses and keeping the Joneses from us and stuff, you know what I’m saying. [00:14:16] I mean, that’s why I stay. That’s why I stay adamant about it because this is a heavy demonstrated city of segregation and whatnot, you know, and a, you know what I’m saying it’s going to be well demonstrated, you know what I’m saying of me knocking it down, you know what I’m saying? It’s being a part of bringing. [00:14:32] Bringing, you know what I’m saying. Bringing equality about, you know what I’m saying I gotta bring my hand, gotta put my hand in it, you know what I’m saying? Because it’s. It’s for my benefits, for my kids benefit, you know what I’m saying? It’s for. I mean, it’s for, you know what I’m saying her kids benefits, his kids benefits, your kids benefits, you know what I’m saying it’s for all of that, you know.

Malikee O’Neal [00:14:52] Yeah, I feel like, you know, I feel like if you kind of look at it strategically, it’s part of the reason why I stayed in Cleveland because most of my friends that I grew up with, you know, they Were kind of loosely activists involved with, like, political hip hop. Most of them moved to the coast because they couldn’t figure out how to break through. They either move to, like, L.A., some San Francisco, New York, because there’s more- It’s more easier to organize. But, I mean, even as bad as it was, like, my father was a Vietnam vet, and he always taught me, you know what I’m saying? You gotta fight. You gotta fight tooth and nail, you know what I’m saying, for what you believe in and stuff. And I wasn’t just gonna retreat, you know what I’m saying, as far as- It’s a hard nut to crack here in Cleveland, you know what I’m saying? As far as bringing social consciousness and unity among different nationalities. But it’s a sweeter taste to love because it’s not as easy, you know what I’m saying? It makes it more rewarding when you can get, like, you know what I’m saying? You go out to Los Angeles, you get a protest against police brutality. You might get 5,000 people. In Cleveland, we’re lucky to get 50. But you know what I’m saying? Hey, you know, I’m saying, I think that’s one of the reason why, you know, people smoke wet because it’s a drug they put in you when you’re dead. You know, wet is people, you know, I’m saying, in the inner city smoke formaldehyde, and, you know, it’s just a symbol. Like, you know, I’m saying people is a walking dead. And, you know what I’m saying? I’m trying to bring a resurrection. So.

O’Neal James [00:16:34] Well, for myself, like I said, coming from the Bay Area, Huey Newton, the Panthers, I got to see a lot. I got to witness a lot. And it wasn’t just a Black thing. Huey did, of course, organize in his community. That’s where he lived. That’s where his people live. But if anybody knew anything about the Black Panthers, Huey wasn’t just, oh, I’m Black. So it has to go this way. It’s not the way that it works in this world, and we know that. And that’s the way people believe that it has to work, which is why we have so many social issues. Even in being incarcerated, people believe that the whites should be over here, Blacks should be over here. Everything should be a different sect, even with religions. And that’s. We, as Recon, are trying, like Keith said, break that down, because we have to realize, I have children. All of us have children. There is no way in the world that you are going to make it in this society with the one-track mind. You have to be able to conquer, speak different languages, and I mean literally speak different languages in order to survive. And as far as the race goes, with me being a Black mom, a Black woman and single mom, I had been a single mom for a while before I was married. And you get stereotyped, you get. You’re lazy, you’re this, you’re that, and that’s not true. And I have to, being in the group and it’s diverse with all three of us. And that’s the one thing I like about Recon, because we don’t look at it as a color. We look at it as a struggle. We’re all struggling, whether you’re white, African American, Native American, Hispanic. There are poor people. And anyone who has superiority is willing to keep any oppressed person down because of their job status, whether or not they’re, like we said, different nationalities. But basically, it comes down to it, if you don’t have the money in this society, then you’re oppressed. That’s how America chooses to look at you. So we’re trying to rise above that.

Malkiese Paythress [00:18:57] It’s funny, you know, the race car, the class card, all this stuff, you know what I’m saying, it’s a big issue, you know what I’m saying, because I mean, look at this country’s motto, you know what I’m saying, united we stand, divided we fall, you know what I’m saying, now, if I’m supposed to- If I’m, you know, when you think about it, you know what I’m saying, if I’m truly gonna stand with you, you know what I’m saying as united, you know what I’m saying, I don’t care. I don’t care if you a millionaire, you know what I’m saying, I don’t care if you own on a lower level than me. You know what I’m saying? I don’t care. You know what I’m saying? If I’m supposed to stand with you united, you know what I’m saying? What. What sense do it make to. To I get knocked down, you just be like, all right, divided we fall. Sorry, bro. You know what I’m saying? I mean, you know, that’s. That’s a smiling face to me, you know, it ain’t for me to do that and ain’t for the next man to do that. I don’t want to stand with somebody that’s gonna tell me, you know what I’m saying, united we stand, divided we fall, you know what I’m saying? [00:19:45] If I know, why should I stand with you united when I know if I get knocked down, you ain’t gonna help me back up, you know what I’m saying, just gonna be like, hey, fail. you know what I’m saying. It’s like, man, ah. you know what I’m saying, hey, if I’m down here, no sayings for me. And Cleveland’s got the crab in the bucket, you know what I’m saying? Cleveland’s a victim of the crab in the bucket theory. You know what I’m saying? It’s like, I say it all the time. You know what I’m saying? Cleveland’s a city where it’s been like, you know, when people try and reach the bottom rung on the ladder, you know what I’m saying, instead of being like, hey, you know, I can grab the bottom rung. Let me help the next one up. You know what I’m saying? Here, come on, I can reach it. You grab it. You know what I’m saying? You know, cats, we’ve been. Guys shifted into a mentality where, hey, man, I grabbed that bottom rung and stuff instead of saying, hey, man, boost him up so he can grab the second rung. You know, cats got the. And the government’s got the mentality twisted, you know what I’m saying? Where, you know, knock his hand down, man. Knock that hand down. You don’t need him grabbing the bottom rung. You need you to grab the bottom rung or you grab it, you know what I’m saying, don’t help him, you know what I’m saying, it’s like, man, you know, it’s like, shoot. I mean, you know, as long as it. And to me. To me, it is the- It is the politician government, you know what I’m saying. I mean, that’s been running this country for a while that’s got it like that, you know what I’m saying. It’s got, you know, I mean, look at the kids now. They listen to get rich or not trying and believe that, you know what I’m saying, get rich or die trying, you know what I’m saying, let me get rich. I ain’t worried about the next man. Let me get rich or die trying to do it, you know? You know, man, right now, we in a- We in a struggle, you know what I’m saying, we still, you know what I’m saying, I don’t care what your background is, you know what I’m saying, you know what I’m saying? You’re in a struggle right now to even try and get some. You know, cats think it’s about prosperity. It’s not. It’s really about being able to live on a level where you can maintain. You know what I’m saying? And we got that twisted because we. We as Americans, you know what I’m saying. Some Americans want to say, yeah, it’s for us to maintain. It’s us as Americans, you know what I’m saying. And then we look at third. And then they turn around, look at third world countries or something, you know what I’m saying? Like, ain’t American though, you know what I’m saying? And it’s like. And then you got some cats that be like, I’m American, you know what I’m saying? Put on. I’m on this million dollar tax bracket, you know what I’m saying? I’m just, hey, man, I kick it. I go to the wine and cheeses with the, you know what I’m saying, with the Bill Gates and stuff. That’s my posse. That’s all I’m worried about, you know, Shoot, you know, and then, and then you got cats down here, you know what I’m saying? I mean, to the street levels, to the, to the curves, to the concrete and stuff, you know, it’s like, it’s like they’re getting, you know, got gangs and stuff out here, you know, like they roll for, they say, you know what I’m saying, some cats roll for their block and ain’t on my block. I ain’t trying to help you out, you know what I’m saying? I mean, you know, that’s. And that all leads back to that. United we stand, divided we fall, you know what I’m saying? It’s like, shoot, if I’m gonna stay united, you know what I’m saying I might as well just keep, keep united with you. United we stand, you know what I’m saying, I ain’t gonna try and knock you down. I ain’t trying to watch you get knocked down, you know what I’m saying? Not if I’m trying to stand with you united, you know what I’m saying? Oh, shoot.

Malikee O’Neal [00:22:43] I think you know what I’m saying, you look at the American government and his policy around race, like if you look at his policy around African Americans, you know what I’m saying? After the Civil War, they had an opportunity to integrate African Americans fully into society. And like they did with a lot of Europeans shortly after the Civil War, around the turn of the century, because, you know what I’m saying, different Europeans were considered oppressed Irish and Poles. And they, you know I’m saying, incorporated them into the greater so called white nation. But they had a chance to abolish, you know what I’m saying, racism after the Civil War because you had, you know what I’m saying, during Reconstruction you had a lot of Black people starting businesses, a lot of Black people getting high jobs in grants, administration and government. And then, you know, I’m saying when the leadership of the Confederacy reorganized and came with that Ku Klux Klan thing, they, you know what I’m saying, they could have sent federal troops down in the South, smash that. But they actually decided to undercover handedly side with it and prevent. And then, you know, I’m saying during the civil rights movement and the Black liberation struggles in the ’60s, they could have, you know, I’m saying, done full integration. And I’m not talking about integration like the way that we see it, like, you know what I’m saying a handful of Black people get rich while the majority of the community is destitutely poor. I’m talking about, you know what I’m saying, actually leveling the playing field. And now, you know what I’m saying, they’re coming with this anti-immigration bill, making it seem like Latinos and immigrants are criminals, you know what I’m saying? They got American workers so worried about, oh, they’re taking our jobs, they’re taking our jobs. You know, I told some of these cats that was on that, I said, yo, they’re sending factories into the third world to pay people 3 cents an hour every day. We’re losing 100,000 times more jobs than sending these factories into the third world than we are for some Mexican dude who’s risking his life trying to cross the border.

Malkiese Paythress [00:24:52] You know, I mean, you know, that’s a, you know, them undercover games, you know what I’m saying? Because, you know, at the same time, you know, the Bush family, you know what I’m saying, and the Cheneys and stuff like that, you know, Condoleezza races and stuff, you know, these cats is billionaires and stuff. And they run, you know, they’ll mess around and run game on the poor white folks and sitting there telling them all, hey, you know what I’m saying it’s these immigrants coming over here taking your jobs and stuff, you know what I’m saying, getting them looking around, you know, getting cats looking around, like, yeah, you’re right, you know, hey, it’s them that’s doing it to us, you know what I’m saying at the same time, you know what I’m saying they, you know, they got West Virginia sitting down there, you know what I’m saying, West Virginia messed up like Mississippi, you know what I’m saying? And they’ll sit up in there and be like, they’ll run game on these, you know, these kids up here down in West Virginia and stuff. They, they live in the same way as the poor Blacks and stuff, you know what I’m saying? And, and the poor Latinos and stuff, you know, all that, you know, and they, and they got. And they run and they’ll run game to them talking about something. They’ll tell. They’ll tell us the whites, it’s the Blacks, you know what I’m saying they’ll tell the Black. They’ll tell the Blacks. It’s the Native Americans and stuff like that, or the Latinos and stuff, you know what I’m saying? Then they tell the Latinos that it’s the Asians, you know what I’m saying, you got everybody looking around in a big circle, you know what I’m saying? Then you got a faction of one. One power group of elitists and stuff, who won’t give a. You know, dying about anything, any of it. Taking all the money, sucking up all the money, you know what I’m saying? And then if you ask them about it, you know what I’m saying we’d be like this. We were like, we call. We call on the Bush family or whatever, you know what I’m saying? And the Cheneys and stuff, you know what I’m saying like, man, what’s that? What’s up with that? You got people right here starving right here. You got people right here. You got people all over the world starving, and even within the country, you got people starving and stuff. Y’all sucking up all this money and then turn around like that, you know, just like with they wars and stuff against terrorism and, you know, making it some. Talking about, oh, God, you know, the Arabs are declaring a jihad, you know what I’m saying? Then when you question them about, man, what y’ all sucking this money up for, they’ll tell you. Then they gonna get you looking at looking at, looking. No, it’s the Saudis over there doing it. You know what I’m saying? It’s like, brother, man, you sitting up there taking all this. You slurping this Slurpee real good, you know what I’m saying? When you talking about, son sitting there slurping and Slurpee right in front of us, you know what I’m saying? Be like- They’ll be like, turn the camera off and so they can drink their Slurpee, you know what I’m saying? They come back on, you know what I’m saying? They wipe their lips and be like, oh, you know what Osama did? That Osama drink all your Slurpee up, you know what I’m saying? He did this and that, you know. You know, it’s like, man, and then when. Turn the camera back off, you know what I’m saying? Sucking the whole Slurpee back up again. He was like, you know, while. While the next kid sitting there. You got kids in Cleveland right now, you know what I’m saying? Sitting up, you know what I’m saying? Like, man, I ain’t got no lights, you know, you got old, old women. Old women, you know what I’m saying? They 80 years old, I’m saying. Got the power illuminating company and. And the electric company and stuff like that, turning off, cutting off their lights and stuff, you know what I’m saying? It’s like- And got the gas company right now telling them, we got. Switch your gas over here and stuff, and we gotta run up the meters and stuff like that, you know, you better pay us this money. You better pay us 500 a month on this gas right here. Knowing they only get 3 on their Social Security check or something, and, you know, you better pay us 500 a month right here. We could, but wintertime comes, we cutting your gas, got a little lady sitting like that, you know what I’m saying, worrying about how they even going, if. Is they gonna starve to death this next. I mean, is they gonna freeze to death this next winter? you know what I’m saying while. While they naming, while they, you know what I’m saying they taking flying trips around, talking about some. Oh, yeah, we all. We went down to Sri Lanka, you know, Colin Powell sitting up there, he a millionaire, too, sitting up in there, you know, like, I’m doing good for the country. I’m helping out these people in Sri Lanka. I went down to Sri Lanka and put them all in the magazine. Instead of walking around telling someone, I looked at the damage. I saw the damage, you know what I’m saying? Like, man, yeah, you saw it, all right, you know what I’m saying? Then. Then call on the American people or call on. Call on all the people of the countries and stuff, you know what I’m saying? Be like, yeah, y’all gotta help us out, you know what I’m saying? Like. And then tell the people out on the block, y’ all better pay for this, man. You see, shoot, New Orleans, man, your city just got destroyed and stuff. Y’all better. And you better. You better rally down here and get your money up, you know what I’m saying? Got little old women giving up their last dollar and stuff, you know what I’m saying? To rebuild New Orleans and stuff. And they sitting up there with the bulk of the money, like, we could pay for it, you know what I’m saying? But shoot, you know what? We’re in debt. We got to send some troops to Iraq right now, you know, we got to go find bin Laden, you know what I’m saying? We can’t- We can’t use our money for that right there. Won’t you Give us your last dollar to do it, you know.

Justin Hons [00:29:12] Well, we’re pretty much out of time, but I did want to ask you guys one last question, and that is, what is the role of art in social change in your opinions?

Malkiese Paythress [00:29:26] Art to me is very, I’m a visual artist, you know, performance artist, you know what I’m saying? Art to me is very important within change, you know what I’m saying? Because your eyes and ears, you know what I’m saying? And your mouth, you know what I’m saying? Your five senses and stuff or what make up, you know what I’m saying, the arts, you know what I’m saying, I mean, did people express the arts to appeal to those senses, you know what I’m saying? I mean, we can get deeper if you want to go into the, you know what I’m saying people’s celestial presences and all that stuff. But you know, art’s so important, you know what I’m saying? Because these are what, this is what shapes, this is what shapes and routes, you know what I’m saying? This is what shapes and routes, you know. I mean, and all the countries know this, you know what I’m saying? They, they know they put a certain art out here, they put a certain music or whatever, you know what I’m saying they put a certain performer out here, you know what I’m saying? They know that’s gonna route people, you know what I’m saying? And if they, you know, you know, I mean, they’ll throw, they’ll throw a rapper on tv, you know, and they’ll put a Ronald Reagan T shirt on, you know what I’m saying, then they get a whole bunch of little 15-year-old kids who don’t know, who didn’t come from the ’80s era or anything like that. They’ll be like, oh yeah, man, you see that rapper rocking that shirt on that, on that video, you know what I’m saying, oh, I’m gonna do that. You know, when you got kids out here, you know what I’m saying, you got rock musicians doing the same thing, they’ll throw, they’ll throw a certain T shirt on or tell the, tell the, you know what I’m saying, get- The record labels will tell a certain person, you know what I’m saying, say this, like this, you know what I’m saying, we ain’t gonna put your album out. And they know when they do, you know, the whole, the rest of the public, you know what I’m saying, it’s gonna be like, yeah, they go and they’ll, and they’ll find a way. People will find a way because they enjoy the arts, you know what I’m saying, they’ll find a way to fit that in, fit that message in, you know what I’m saying, no matter how backwards the message is they’ll fit that in to make it right. Because they want to keep on- They want to keep on enjoying it. You know, I mean, visual arts, you know what I’m saying. Musical arts, you know what I’m saying, performance arts, acting and all that stuff, you know, it’s very important. You know that’s, I mean, that, that’s, that’s, you know, they use it, the government likes to use it as propaganda, you know what I’m saying. I don’t like to say down here that we, you know, that we doing propaganda, but we are giving messages, you know what I’m saying, you know, I think when higher ups get a hold of it to shift a different way, I think that’s when it becomes propaganda. But I mean, it’s, it’s, it’s appeal, it changes the senses, appeals to people’s senses regardless, you know, so it’s very important.

Tunisia James [00:31:55] No, well, for me, I believe that art, it’s made up of the two emotions. There are only two emotions in this life. That’s love and fear. So sometimes with different art, it can paint a fear on the screen of your imagination or it can make you do the opposite. You can decide that I’m not going to fear what’s going on in the world. So I’m gonna have enough love for myself and those around me to make a change. So to me, that’s what I’m trying to do with my art. Just make people more aware that you have to stop being fearful of these issues and the realities of life and go ahead and open your eyes to the nightmare of what’s going on and go ahead and get- Sometimes you have to just take those bandages off and allow yourself to really see what’s going on. And it’s the same thing. It could be if I see a beautiful picture someone painted or took a picture that’s going to stick in my memory, I’m going to remember and I’m not going to forget that picture. That’s just like the world. Picture of this world is not beautiful always. And we have to put that in our memory. And with hearing, we do poetry as well. So with hearing it and you already see, well, okay, I can see what’s going on. I see on the news, I see, you know, in the corner, you know, what’s going on. So I want to be able to put a positive message with our art that we’re doing and allow society not just one segregated spot, but society itself to realize that we’re going to have to make a change in order to grow.

Malikee O’Neal [00:33:38] Yeah, I think what you can see in society today is from the highest echelon of the establishment is a like white right-wing cultural revolution. Whether it’s rap music, rock music, everything, as far as music that gets promoted by the establishment is promoting the values of the upper echelon of society. People can’t be trusted making money at any expense, no matter who you’re going to screw over by doing it. And people don’t count, money counts. And you know, I’m saying we can see the outcome of the way that, you know, I’m saying they have destroyed hip hop with these, with these values and stuff. You know, hip hop used to be the voice of the oppressed communities. And now, you know what I’m saying, now you have neocolonialism, now you got neocolonialism and hip hop. You know, I’m saying, just like they did in Africa when the revolutions happened in Africa and they drove the European powers out, the Europeans knew they couldn’t come and recolonize Africa, so they just bought off the leaders and that’s what they did. You know what I’m saying? Hip hop, they started coming with all these big contracts. People started talking about what the establishment wanted them to talk about, you know, so you want to. They knew they couldn’t colonize hip hop so they had to build it, you know, they understand, through neo-colonization.

Justin Hons [00:35:11] All right, thank you all for being with us today.

Tunisia James [00:35:13] Thank you very much.

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