Abstract

This is an interview with Father Michael Franz Pastor of St. Stephen Church and Lorraine Mielnik, Parish Secretary. After introductions there is some background history of St. Stephen's Church. It was established in 1873 to serve the German speaking Catholics of the community. The founding pastor was Father Stephen Falk from Switzerland and a German presence was prevalent until World War I. Next there is discussion about the architecture of the church and parish population. The German identity is now gone and there is some ethnic mix. Neighborhood outreach, community service and the school is discussed. Mielnik discusses the architecture and gives tours. The church is on the city tour. There is some talk about saving the church from closure and what the future may hold for the church.

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Interviewee

Franz, Michael (interviewee); Mielnik, Lorraine (interviewee)

Interviewer

Valore, Kenneth (interviewer); Lanese, James (interviewer)

Project

Sacred Landmarks

Date

9-27-2011

Document Type

Oral History

Duration

44 minutes

Transcript

Ken Valore [00:00:00] -Stephens Church, located on West 54th Street between Lorain and Bridge. Could you just state your name and your affiliation?

Michael Franz [00:00:13] Yes, I’m Father Michael Franz. I’ve been here at St. Stephen’s as pastor for 23 years. And here we are. Long history of St. Stephen parish. I’m the seventh pastor.

Ken Valore [00:00:30] Okay. How long is St. Stephen’s- I mean, when was it started?

Michael Franz [00:00:35] 1869, it was started. The church date of the church building is 1873. It was founded for the German-speaking Catholics who lived west of 44th Street, west of 44th Street in those days. Apparently that was frontier land. They had a German church that served German Catholics, but west of 44th Street was, I guess, a new territory.

Ken Valore [00:01:15] Can you tell me anything about the history of the community?

Michael Franz [00:01:20] Well, there were a lot of German-speaking people, ethnic Germans in this area at that time. Cleveland was a heavily German city in those days. And Lorain Avenue had a lot of German people, German businesses. And so there were a lot of German-speaking people in those days, and the parish was made for them basically. And some of them participated in the construction. And of course they financed it as well. Some very generously, even with second mortgages.

Ken Valore [00:02:03] Back when the church was started, was this already Cleveland or was it Ohio City? I know at one point the west side was Ohio City. It wasn’t Cleveland.

Michael Franz [00:02:14] No, I believe it was already Cleveland. Yes.

Ken Valore [00:02:19] Was it pretty rural back then?

Michael Franz [00:02:21] Rural? Well, not the city. I mean, the situation I think is just like, was just a smaller picture of what we have today, the suburbs. I suppose the suburbs were not yet, I think, very substantial. But this was a growing city of considerable importance in those days.

Ken Valore [00:03:00] Right. Was the founding pastor German?

Michael Franz [00:03:05] Yes, they sent a- Well, he was actually Swiss, but the founding pastor was Father Falk, was German-speaking and came from Switzerland. Yes. Those early pastors were all German, German-speaking people. They used German in church.

Ken Valore [00:03:31] Was it only German or was it-

Michael Franz [00:03:34] Now that I can’t tell you. I would imagine they must have had something in English until World War I put an end to the use of German. There was a lot of German use in the church.

Ken Valore [00:03:56] Okay. How about the church structure? I know. Do you know what style it is?

Michael Franz [00:04:07] Well, I’ve heard it described as German Gothic. It does have a Gothic appearance, you know, high, high arches and such.

Ken Valore [00:04:19] And can you just talk a little bit about the interior?

Michael Franz [00:04:25] About the interior. Well, the things that strike you most are probably the wood decorations, a lot of carved wood and some beautiful stained glass windows, both noteworthy. These are the things that mostly capture my attention in the church. And a lot of the wood was actually done carved in Europe, not all of it, because we had some, I understand, some fine woodworkers here in Cleveland. The windows in those days are not the same ones that we have today. The original windows were not much compared to what we have today. What we have today came in the early 20th century. But the original windows, I understand, were much less impressive.

Ken Valore [00:05:26] Were the stained-glass windows from- Were they made in the United States or were they made in Europe also? 

Michael Franz [00:05:31] No, they were made in Europe. They were made at the Mayer studio in Munich, Germany. And those windows that we have today were put in, I believe, around 1911, the year 1911. And total cost was about $11,000 in those days.

Ken Valore [00:05:59] About the organ.

Michael Franz [00:06:02] Well, the organ we are proud of our organ. I’m told that the original was a Johnson organ, and then it was reworked by Mr. Holtkamp. The Holtkamp Organ Company still exists today. Now, when that- I forget the date of that, but he reworked it, and then after a period of years, it needed to be reworked. And we have worked on it since I’ve been here in the last 23 years. We have worked on it steadily and put it into good condition. It’s kind of an eclectic organ now, I suppose. Originally Johnson and then Holtkamp, and then other things have been done to it, which I don’t fully understand, but I’m told it’s in good condition and we have a man who can play it well and gets a lot out of the organ.

Ken Valore [00:07:03] It’s a pipe organ.

Michael Franz [00:07:04] It’s a pipe organ. Yes.

Ken Valore [00:07:06] It’s not one of these electronic.

Michael Franz [00:07:07] No, no, it’s a pipe organ.

Ken Valore [00:07:11] I have a feeling you’re lucky to have somebody who knows how to play it.

Michael Franz [00:07:14] Yes, we are lucky. We’re very fortunate to have Mr. Kolecki.

Ken Valore [00:07:19] I assume he’s a parishioner.

Michael Franz [00:07:20] Yes, he is.

Ken Valore [00:07:24] You know, obviously, over the years, you know, the neighborhood has changed. Do you have any idea how? You know what the largest number of parishioners was?

Michael Franz [00:07:44] Historically, I’m only guessing now. It certainly was much higher than it is today. I would guess that probably they had maybe 12 to 1500 families up until the 50s. Even in the 1950s, it was substantial.

Ken Valore [00:08:09] What is it today?

Michael Franz [00:08:11] Well, today it’s on the books. It’s 800 families. We don’t see them, a lot of them. So that number, to my eyes, looks a bit inflated. It may, in fact, be less. But anyway, that’s the number we have carried over, at least for the past years.

Ken Valore [00:08:40] Is there still a reasonably large number of people who are German descent?

Michael Franz [00:08:46] No, that has changed dramatically. There are not very many left of those. They moved out over time from the central city to the suburbs. We saw a few German names in the rolls, but not very many. But people usually moved west, Parma and further out. And we make an effort to. We bring them back once a month with the German Mass. And we do get some people come in from the suburbs, almost all from the suburbs.

Ken Valore [00:09:37] Do you get any people coming in from any of the other Masses, or is it primarily just local neighborhood people now?

Michael Franz [00:09:46] No, we get people especially for the Latin Mass. We had a Latin Mass now for a couple of years, a regular Sunday Mass. And a lot of those people come in from the suburbs, a lot of them, and also for our other Masses. So we have a substantial number that come in.

Ken Valore [00:10:08] And I assume Sunday Mass, 11 o’clock Mass.

Michael Franz [00:10:12] 11 o’clock Mass, Yes, a lot of them, yes, we have a substantial number that come in. Not too many that live around here anymore, of course. There are other churches around here too, you know, that take up some of the people that live in close here. There’s several churches in the neighborhood. There’s St. Colman, there’s St. Patrick. So there’s more churches than are needed for the number of Catholic people.

Michael Franz [00:10:45] At one time that wasn’t true. One time it was densely populated with Catholics. That’s changed.

Ken Valore [00:11:01] So what kind of services has the church historically provided for the congregation in the surrounding community? I guess you have a school.

Michael Franz [00:11:14] I would say that’s the number one service, this parish. Right from the beginning they had a school and they’ve had a school here always. There’s never been a time when they didn’t have a school. St Stephen’s it’s changed a little bit over the years. At one time they had a high school. The last year for the high school was 1971. But the grade school continued and now the grade school continues in a different form. We have a merged school. Three parishes went together. Three neighborhood parishes went together and made one school about 20 years ago. But the school continues, has been doing well.

Ken Valore [00:12:12] I noticed on one building it says Parish School and the other building says Metro Catholic.

Michael Franz [00:12:21] Oh, I want you-

Ken Valore [00:12:22] Do you use both buildings?

Michael Franz [00:12:25] Actually, yes, they actually there are two school buildings. When I say school, the whole class is in them. There’s the back red-brick building, and then there’s the one over here, the yellow-brown-brick building. And then there’s the nuns’ convent. They call that the Faculty Residence. Now, so those three buildings actually constitute the school now. They have diocesan support. The care of the school doesn’t depend on the parish anymore. Diocesan support, and the nuns help from their own resources. And then there’s tuition. And many of the students get government aid, government vouchers, which helps greatly.

Ken Valore [00:13:24] You still have nuns?

Michael Franz [00:13:26] Yeah, we do. Yes, we do. The Sisters of Notre Dame who were here from the beginning. Not the same ones here from the beginning. Still after school, they make a special. This is a priority among them. It may be the. They may have more Notre Dame sisters here than in any other school that they have. So they make a priority for it because it’s the inner city and they want to help. We do have several nuns, principal is, Notre Dame sister and staff with several on the staff.

James Lanese [00:14:07] The school is K through 8?

Michael Franz [00:14:10] Yes.

Ken Valore [00:14:14] Is that kind of unusual to have a high school?

Michael Franz [00:14:19] Well, in those days it wasn’t. In those days, there were three German Catholic parishes in this part of town, and all of them. Well, at least two of the three had high schools. St. Michael had a high school up in Scranton and Clark, they had a high school. This had a high school. So it was common for parishes to have high schools in those days.

Ken Valore [00:14:54] I wasn’t aware of that.

Michael Franz [00:14:55] Yes, and I’m sure there were others in town, but there are none. I don’t think there are any parish high schools left.

Ken Valore [00:15:03] Right. We interviewed Saint Stanislaus, and they had had a high school.

Michael Franz [00:15:10] Yes, at one time. Well, they have a different- Now they have Central Catholic, which is different. It’s not a parish high school, but it is a high school. It’s on their grounds.

Ken Valore [00:15:31] Right. So what other services do you provide for the community? Do you have, like a hunger center?

Michael Franz [00:15:43] We don’t have a hunger center. With the help of our partner in the suburbs, St. Bernadette Church in Westlake. We provide food cards for people who come looking for food. We are working with some of the children in the neighborhood. We have a youth group. Basically, it’s a work group. They’re learning how to work, and they help keep the church and grounds in shape and they help neighbors in the neighborhood that need work to be done. So that’s a service, about half a dozen young people. Our maintenance man, Frank Milnick, does a good job with them. Not only does he teach them to work, but they have social activities as well. We. We have an outreach now, a garden outreach, I would call it. That’s in formation now. We have an old greenhouse which is being fixed up and will be available in service to the neighborhood. Teaching people how to grow things, teaching them, helping them to learn to garden and learn vegetable gardening. In fact, about two weeks ago, our maintenance man showed people how to make their own greenhouse. He put on a little clinic for them to do that. So that’s another service to the neighborhood today. In years past, we did other things. We worked hard on safety issues. A few years ago, we haven’t been doing that. We used to have a monthly meeting with the police. Any neighbors who wanted to come for the purpose of improving the neighborhood. Any problems in the neighborhood would be brought up. We did that for about 20 years. That’s what comes to mind right now.

Ken Valore [00:18:02] Has the neighborhood kind of stabilized? I know it changed over time, obviously.

Michael Franz [00:18:08] It’s hard to say for me to say whether it’s stabilized because we do have a lot of renting people and we have renting people. Is that stability? Not really. People come and go. I think the housing stock is better than it was when I came. So I think there’s been an overall improvement in the quality of life. In the 20 years that I’ve been here. It’s a little better, but there’s a constant flux. And there are many people that are not stable. I mean, they come and go. They’re renting. Especially on the next street over, 57th Street, we have a lot of transient people over there. But on this street, 54th Street, I think it looks a little better. And the crime has gone down somewhat. There were days when I first got there when if you drove down the street, you might have to stop while young people did drug deals right, drug deals right in the street. And you had to stop and wait for them to finish their business. It’s better today.

Ken Valore [00:19:31] That’s good. Well, obviously the ethnic makeup of your parish has changed. Has the racial makeup changed too?

Michael Franz [00:19:43] Well, I wouldn’t say the racial. We have a few Black people. Basically we have about eight Black people. And that’s been steady. In fact, they’re the same eight people for the last many years. There’s been a little change. There were a lot of Spanish-speaking for a while. In fact, this parish was at one time designated to be the. The center for Catholic Spanish-speaking people. That’s changed. We now Spanish-speaking now have their own parish down in Detroit. They also go to St. Michael’s up in Scranton where they have a Spanish-speaking priest. So we have fewer. We still have a very substantial number of, let’s call them, Hispanic people. I won’t say they’re all Spanish-speaking, but substantial number of that. There’s always been the Oriental mix. I think we have fewer of those now. Because for a long time the Vietnamese people came here as their home. But now they go to St. Boniface Church, which isn’t far. It’s up on Denison, 54th and Denison, where the Spanish, the Vietnamese priest takes care of them. So there’s been some shifting, but not a huge racial change.

Ken Valore [00:21:18] But is there- I noticed the kids going to school. Most of them seem to be Black.

Michael Franz [00:21:28] Oh, well, no. See, there’s a school on the road, a public school down the road on the same street here, 54th Street. If you go past Bridge and you run into Waverly School. So a lot of those kids are going down to Waverly. Now, the school is separate from the parish. You talk about racial mixture. I was talking about the parish. Now, the school. There is a higher number of what we call minority children there than in the parish. See, the school is much broader than the parish. The school is no longer St. Stephen’s School. In fact, we have children coming from nine different parishes. And a lot of those children also are not Catholic. So there are a lot of Black students. And there are some Muslim people, too. So it’s quite a mixed group.

Ken Valore [00:22:31] But I imagine the neighborhood, really, traditionally, there weren’t very many Black people on the west side.

Michael Franz [00:22:43] No, there weren’t. There are more now. There are more now. Most of them are renting.

Ken Valore [00:23:02] Is there any other information you’d like to add or would you like to add, is it Lorraine?

Michael Franz [00:23:11] Lorraine? Sure.

Michael Franz [00:23:22] Well, I could give you a couple anecdotes if you feel like. These are frequently mentioned by Mr. Barrett. One interesting anecdote is the great tornado. Let’s see, when was that? Was that 1950?

Ken Valore [00:23:40] It was in the ’50s, I know.

Michael Franz [00:23:42] Yeah, 1950. The Great Tornado came through here. It was devastating. It knocked trees over. It actually shifted the roof on the church to such an extent that the whole roof had to be replaced. And it also shattered a lot of the stained glass windows. Most of them, I think. So. It was a really big thing. In fact, for a whole year, the people couldn’t use the church for worship. Now, for some time before the tornado hit, one of the parishioners was in the insurance business. Asked the pastor, Monsignor Gertz, to get insurance for the church. And he put her off for a long time. Except two years before the storm, he took insurance, and that insurance probably saved the parish What they did is they had to put a whole new roof on. But now for the windows. The windows had been in place at that time for maybe 50 years. So they contacted the company in Munich, Germany, who had put in the windows, designed and put them in. They still had the plans for the windows, the drawings. So they sent back from Germany an old man who had been here for the original installation. And he came back and he supervised the reconstruction. So they restored them beautifully, except for two windows behind the altar which couldn’t be reconstructed, and those they boarded over, just boarded and painted. When I came here, that was the condition. Those windows behind the altar were no longer there. Sometime later, then, there was an old church on woodlands called St. Joseph. It was very similar to this church. In fact, it had the same architects and the same company.

Ken Valore [00:26:06] Was it a German church, too?

Michael Franz [00:26:08] Yes, it was. The same company had made their windows. Now, they were different dimensions. Our windows were more long and narrow. Theirs were shorter and wider. But we were able. When St. Joseph Church closed, we asked the diocese if we could have a pick of their windows. And we got them. We installed them. It was a considerable job because since they weren’t of the right dimensions, we had to widen the openings in our building. And we had to make a new stained glass to frame above and below. And we did that. And so today we have beautiful windows behind the altar, which for many years they didn’t have. So that’s the story of the stained glass windows. That’s one anecdote that Mr. Barrett tells us. I forget that. I think that’s about it.

Ken Valore [00:27:16] How long has the cat been the parish cat?

Michael Franz [00:27:19] Oh, he is the third parish cat. Really? Yeah, since I’ve been here. That’s another anecdote I can tell you. The same pastor who took out insurance at the last moment was known to hate cats. In fact, he would shoot them from the window. [laughs] He killed many of them. Until one day he winged a cat and went back to its home across the street. Winged. And the owner called the police. And that put a stop to Monsignor Gertz’s cat slaying. But the funny thing is, when I came here, then, much later than Monsignor Gertz, somebody gave me a beautiful picture of Monsignor Gertz. Colored picture. He was in his- He had his red on everything. He gave it to me. What was I going to do with it? I didn’t know what to do with it, so I stuck it on the dining room table. Now, at that time, we did have a cat. We had gotten a cat. And one day I came down. I came down from in the morning, and the picture in which had been standing, was knocked down flat and the cat was sleeping on it. Cat’s Revenge. Let me call Lorraine. Lorraine gives a lot of talks in the church. Lorraine, could you come in for a moment, please? [sound of footsteps] 

Lorraine Mielnik [00:29:20] Yes?

Michael Franz [00:29:21] This- Lorraine, these gentlemen, Ken Valore and Jim Lanese from the Sacred Landmarks Commission. And this is Lorraine Melnick, our secretary. She’s also given many talks, and many talks on the parish. I told them what I know and I told them the anecdotes about the insurance. Maybe you’ve told that one too. The insurance and also the cats. Maybe you don’t know that anecdote of our cat, Monsignor Goretz, who used to shoot cats.

Lorraine Mielnik [00:30:02] Oh! [laughs] Yeah, I’ve heard rumors of that.

Michael Franz [00:30:03] You hear that one? How then when I had a picture of him standing on the table in the dining room. One morning, I came down, the picture was knocked flat and the cat was sleeping on it.

Lorraine Mielnik [00:30:19] [laughs] That’s great.

Michael Franz [00:30:21] That was a cat. Then we had another cat after that. And then we have this cat that we have today.

Ken Valore [00:30:29] That’s kind of unusual, but we were kind of- We’ve always had cats. We were kind. We used to see the cat walking around in church.

Michael Franz [00:30:40] That doesn’t often happen. That was unusual. [laughs]

Lorraine Mielnik [00:30:46] He’s very people-oriented.

Michael Franz [00:30:48] I say it’s okay because he’s a “Cat-lic.”

Lorraine Mielnik [00:30:54] We think that he might hear Father’s voice and be curious enough. We shoo him away from the doors so sometimes he’ll hop up into the windows.

Ken Valore [00:31:04] Well, the- Yeah. When we came, the door was open on the side so we could just walk-

Michael Franz [00:31:09] Yes.

Ken Valore [00:31:14] Lorraine, how long have you been with the parish?

Lorraine Mielnik [00:31:18] I’ve been a member of the parish for five years.

Ken Valore [00:31:22] And you’re the parish secretary?

Lorraine Mielnik [00:31:24] Yes, I’ve been the parish secretary for three years.

Ken Valore [00:31:30] What can you share with us about the church?

Lorraine Mielnik [00:31:35] What would you like to know specifically?

Ken Valore [00:31:39] Anything about the structure. What strikes you when you walk into church?

Lorraine Mielnik [00:31:50] Like a lot of people, I’m struck by the feeling that I get when I go in there, the sense of awe and amazement. And when I give tours, it seems to strike people that the big wood structures are freestanding and they were hand carved. And that really seems to amaze people because it was the wood things. Sorry. The wood items were made in Germany and they just had some measurements to go by where, you know, today they’re measuring and all of that. And, you know, there weren’t any precise laser measuring things and, you know, none of that. And they were able to. To create this perfectly fitted piece which is very large and grand, to fit in the opening that’s our whole high altar and all of that. That’s all freestanding and just it’s amazing.

Ken Valore [00:32:55] I had a question. The pulpit fits the tall one. Do you use that pulpit?

Michael Franz [00:33:07] But we do use it not all the time, but Father Bede uses it every Sunday for the Latin Mass. Do you know the history of that, that particular item?

Lorraine Mielnik [00:33:22] I notice that it’s set out into the pews like that because when they were originally used they didn’t have sound systems in churches. So they were set out into the people. And then the canopy on top acts as a soundboard to keep the echo back toward the people instead of up into the ceiling because of those speakers and things like that.

Ken Valore [00:33:42] Yeah, but that’s kind of unusual.

Michael Franz [00:33:44] Well, it’s not so unusual for older churches. You’ll find these, for example, west boulevard in Lorraine. St Ignatius Church has one too. St James Church, Lakewood, which unfortunately was closed, has one also. But there’s a little history on that pulpit. It was brought to the United States in 1895. They had what they call the Columbian Exposition. It was like a world fair took place in Chicago and it was shown. There was an exhibit there and actually it was exhibited as an example of engineering because the entire upper part depended only on two or three columns on one side of the lower structure. It was considered to be something a worthy example of good engineering to get to do that. So it was exhibited there and then it was brought to St Stephen’s after that. It was made in Germany, actually. If you look carefully at the pulpit, the lower part of the pulpit, there are niches in which are wood carved statues of all great preachers. There’s a statue of Jesus and then a statue of St. John Chrysostom and others. Those statues I’m to trying are among the finest artistic pieces in the church, although they’re not real big, they’re about this big. But they’re hand-carved out of wood.

Ken Valore [00:35:26] Are they part of it or are they separate?

Michael Franz [00:35:29] No, they’re separate, but evidently they were made with the public. You can take them out and put them back. Absolutely.

Ken Valore [00:35:42] Now do you have a lot of, do you have a lot of tours?

Lorraine Mielnik [00:35:46] I normally do during the summer, yes. Like places that take people on tours will make this one of their stops, like tour companies.

Michael Franz [00:35:56] You must have given at least 20, wouldn’t you say?

Lorraine Mielnik [00:35:59] Oh, yeah, at least.

Ken Valore [00:36:03] That’s interesting.

Lorraine Mielnik [00:36:06] High schools too, if they have any sort of religion classes, will make this one of their stops or if there’s anything that they have to do with architecture, engineering, when their classes be there as well.

Ken Valore [00:36:19] Okay. Jim, do you have any other questions?

James Lanese [00:36:38] Father and Lorraine, you had mentioned that there was at one point a threat of merger or closing of the parish.

Michael Franz [00:36:49] Yes.

James Lanese [00:36:52] Was that actively opposed, or how did that story kind of pan out?

Michael Franz [00:37:05] I can tell you a little bit about- Yes. All the parishes in the diocese had been meeting and meeting with others in their neighborhoods in groups, and they were part of the planning process. We knew that there were going to be changes that would- Some churches would be closed and others would be merged. That we were part of a group for churches in our neighborhood, and that group had pretty much a consensus that St. Stephen should be closed and that the recommendation that went to the bishop with that in there. We didn’t agree that St. Stephen’s but that was a- Apart from us, that was the consensus. Well, the bishop threw a surprise. He decided not to close St Stephen’s and then said he was going to merge St. Stephen and the other, St. Colman. But St. Colman reacted strongly with all kinds of letters and protests, meetings with the bishop. Finally, he rescinded that so that St. Colman’s could continue on its own. St. Stephen’s could continue on its own, but in three years, he would be revisiting, and he gave us each a list of benchmarks that he wanted us to achieve. Now, in the meantime, while before anybody knew what the bishop was going to do, many people from St. Stephen’s were writing letters. There’s a large alumni group of St. Stephen’s because of the school which existed for so many years, the high school, that there was a steady stream of letters to the bishop. Mr. Barrett of, you know, went to the bishop and pleaded for both St Stephen’s and St. Colman on artistic grounds. His judgment. Mr. Barrett says St Stephen’s is the finest example of, I guess you call it Gothic church architecture. And then St. Coleman’s is the finest example of Renaissance style. Both should be preserved just from the point of view of the buildings. Of course, the bishop wasn’t thinking primarily of buildings, although certainly maintenance costs are. We had a lot of- Yes, a lot of people wrote letters to the bishop. Interestingly enough, the Protestant Germans also wrote to the bishop, Pastor Hoyer. Horst Hoyer of Emmanuel Evangelical Lutheran up here on. What is that street over there?

Ken Valore [00:40:08] Over there?

Michael Franz [00:40:10] They’re not on- Okay, the 25th Street. Anyway, they’re on the near west side. In other words, he got his people to write to the bishop. So that was an interesting dimension. But they- They put in their two cents. So we had an ecumenical dimension to the fray. And of course we having the school here I think helped also. Bishop was impressed with the school and so we decided not to close. But he did tell us that we needed to do a few things that we hadn’t been doing. So we’ll see in another year. We have to face the examination again. Thank you.

Ken Valore [00:41:03] Okay. Anything else?

James Lanese [00:41:15] Do you gain any, or interact, I should say, or gain any support from prior parishioners? You had mentioned the strong German presence much earlier and obviously they’ve moved west and probably have a couple of key parishes with where they are still involved. Are there pretty much sister parishes out there that kind of maintain contact?

Michael Franz [00:41:51] They’re not. Well, the Germans are now dispersed and pretty much amalgamated. You know, it’s not like they have a German presence special anyway. That’s pretty much over the ethnic phase for the Germans that move beyond that. Let’s see though, there’s a church out in this Valley City. It’s similar to this and they recently built a new church. But the old church which they’ve preserved and keep and use on occasion is similar to ours. So there were a lot of German-speaking people that way as well. Now the. Well, the German people still keep. They have the Lenau Park, which is the Donauschwaben in Columbia Station on Columbia Road. They keep. That’s their main effort to keep their culture going. And they have a lot of events out there. But religiously, no. I think St. Stephen’s is the last of any religious, really German religious element. We’re the only church where there’s any German services anymore.

Ken Valore [00:43:30] Okay, thank you very much.

Michael Franz [00:43:32] Okay, you’re welcome. Hope it helps very much.

Ken Valore [00:43:35] Yeah. Jim would like to take-

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