Abstract
This is an interview with Bob Hook, Garfield Monument Guide and Mary Krohmer, Lakeview Cemetery Public Relations Director. In the first part of the interview there is discussion about former President Garfield and Hook as a history teacher. The interview continues with conversation about the monument regarding the design and raising funds for construction. It is noted the monument is the highest point at Lakeview with a view of Lake Erie. It was a major attraction and cemeteries were places to visit. Later in the interview there is more detail about the construction of the monument. In the later part of the interview there is more talk about present day activities and how the monument is used during Memorial Day and Veterans Day ceremonies. In closing there is also some more detail about the cemetery and the band concerts on the hillside and walking tours.
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Interviewee
Hook, Bob (interviewee); Krohmer, Mary (interviewee)
Interviewer
Lanese, James (interviewer); Valore, Kenneth (interviewer)
Project
Sacred Landmarks
Date
11-8-2011
Document Type
Oral History
Duration
51 minutes
Recommended Citation
"Bob Hook and Mary Krohmer Interview, 2011" (2011). Cleveland Regional Oral History Collection. Interview 127021.
https://engagedscholarship.csuohio.edu/crohc000/383
Transcript
Mary Krohmer [00:00:02] Good morning.
James Lanese [00:00:03] My name is Jim Lanese, and I’m joined by Ken Valore, Bob Hook, and Mary Krohmer to conduct an interview for the Center for Public History and Digital Humanities at Cleveland State University in order to document the history of the Garfield Monument. The interview is being held at Lake View Cemetery, located at-
Mary Krohmer [00:00:27] 2316 Euclid Avenue, Cleveland.
James Lanese [00:00:31] And we are in Tool-
Mary Krohmer [00:00:34] Toolhouse D.
James Lanese [00:00:35] Toolhouse D. In order to proceed, could you go ahead and introduce yourself and note your affiliation with the cemetery and. Or the monument?
Bob Hook [00:00:48] Sure. My name is Bob Hook, and I am a guide at the Garfield Monument. And I have been an employee of the cemetery for eight years.
Mary Krohmer [00:00:59] And I’m Mary Krohmer, director of community relations at Lakeview Cemetery.
James Lanese [00:01:06] Thank you, Bob and Mary. As a starting point, I’d like to ask you to just talk about your. past connection with becoming a guide at the monument here and some insights into your experiences with guiding tours through the monument and some insights about the monument itself.
Bob Hook [00:01:33] Sure. I taught history for 30 years at North Olmsted High School. And then my wife and I moved to Williamsburg, Virginia, where I was a guide also. And so when we came back to Cleveland, it was a natural, I guess, progression that when I saw they needed a guide, I came to Mary and she hired me. And I have been here then again for about eight years. The job is a fantastic opportunity to meet people. People come here from all over the world, the country and in fact, the world. And when the groups come in, it is really fun, especially for me with the grade school and the high school kids, to again go through some of the things like, who is Garfield? What is he as far as his place in history? Why is the monument in Cleveland, Ohio? I have found that a lot of the people who come to our monument think that the man was shot in Canton, Ohio. And of course, that was William McKinley. And so it’s really, really kind of interesting about all the. Some of the misperceptions that people come in with. And it really is. He was shot in Buffalo. No, he wasn’t shot in Buffalo. He was shot in Washington, D.C. and it’s been a good experience as far as teaching that way, too. So it’s kind of, like I said, a natural progression. Some of the interesting things that have happened over my eight years. Well, I guess two years ago was really very interesting. The Sons of the American Revolution came in and did a dedication and presented a wreath at the monument. And it was kind of a really interesting day when I got to talk to some of the people who were the reenactors and some of the people in that organization about American history and of course, James Garfield in particular. Other people have come in, gentlemen, came in from Minneapolis St. Paul actually, who claims to have the second largest artifact collection for James Garfield. And he was really interesting because of his knowledge. And then what he can add to ours too. It’s always fun to have people who are associated or have done research or anybody like that. For instance, Alan Peskin, the man who wrote the biography of James Garfield, also comes in. And he also is a valuable, valuable resource because I can always ask him questions if somebody asks me something. And believe me, there are things that are still unknown as far as I can, you know, figure out about James Garfield. I guess other interesting things that have happened. Sometimes people come in and want to know, are there ghosts? Are there any supernatural things going on here, here? And that led me, it’s really interesting that I went to the Western Reserve Historical Library and found in the Jephthah Wade papers that Jeptha Wade had communicated with the dead, Garfield through a median. And Garfield communicated back through that median. And they asked him what we should do with the assassin. And Garfield wrote back that the assassin should not be executed because taking a life for a life is not something you should do. They also ask him what he thought of the monument, what should be done. And the answer is that you do whatever you think is best. So that was really interesting to find that. And of course that got me interested. So I figured out that in that period of time when Jephthah Wade, who of course the owner of the cemetery, that was very common, very common to hire medians and try to communicate with the dead. So. But that was really interesting, I guess. You know, overall, again, the big thing is when the kids come in to explain the life of Garfield and try to get them a little bit interested in the artistic work. And then as the adults come in, it’s more involved them with the artistic work because usually they know a little bit about James Garfield. And the other thing, of course we do is try to push them to go to Mentor, Ohio to see the house where the National Park Service conducts tours.
James Lanese [00:06:42] Could you talk a little bit about the building itself, its features and its inception?
Bob Hook [00:06:51] Okay. James Garfield died in Elberon, New Jersey on September 19, 1881. That day, the mayor of Cleveland and the trustees of this cemetery, Lake View, had a meeting and they decided that they were going to do some kind of monument. And the day of the funeral in Cleveland, there was a two day funeral in Cleveland, Ohio, on Public Square. The trustees of the cemetery had made it known that there were certain locations around the square where you could contribute money for some kind of monument. They got about $1,400 the first day, and that was enough to bury James Garfield in the ground with a stone. Like more than half of the presidents of the United States, they decided to wait. And they also put in every major newspaper in the country. Actually, it was a request that if you would like to do something for James Garfield, we would solicit donations, and you could send those donations to the National City bank in Cleveland, Ohio. And after doing that, they waited two years. And at the end of two years, they had $150,000. That’s about $3 million in today’s terms. And from there, they had an architectural contest. They decided that the best way to do this was to have a public contest. They solicited entries again from around the world, and they got almost 50 entries anonymously, came to Cleveland and were put in the actually with the Rider Art Gallery. And from there, they hired two prominent architects, One from Boston, one from New York, to come and judge the entries. George Keller from Hartford, Connecticut, was chosen as the architect. Charles Schweinfurth of Cleveland, Ohio, was second place. And there was a lot of controversy about that because many people thought there should be a local person. But it was done fairly, it was done competitively. Keller came to Cleveland, Ohio, looked at the site. He wanted to see what he was doing and where it was. And after that, he said, I am going to go to Europe and I’m going to find what the building styles and what has happened in the past in Europe for monuments. And he went to Italy and Germany and England and all the different European capitals, looked at all the buildings, modified his building here in Cleveland. The original model in Cleveland looked too much like a lighthouse, was the comment that he got from the people here in Cleveland. And so he modified his building by lowering it 65 feet and putting cones on the top and on the side of the building. And with that, the building was judged to be more like a memorial. Keller also found in Europe many, many artistic things that are just wonderful, wonderful additions. If you see the building, the dome of our building is done in Venetian art glass. Keller went to Venice, and in Venice, Antonio Salviati had a company which had rediscovered the Renaissance technique of Venetian art glass. The island of Murano is where they did the work. The glass in our dome is the very first use of Murano glass. The depictions on the glass, of course, all of the iconography there is of course, we have angels and we have directional north, south, east and west. For the four corners of the earth coming to morn, we have the trees of life with we have the Roman laurel race. All cemetery motifs which honor James Garfield. Keller then goes to France. In France, he found a company that could do full figures in a mosaic. We have a surround in the building, in the middle of the building. We call it an allegorical funeral procession. It is made up of 200,000 pieces of tape tessera or small pieces of marble, naturally occurring marble. They are generic figures, but they are mourners to the president James Garfield. Stained glass windows he did in London. Now, he asked Tiffany if he could do windows and Tiffany had just started. Favreauglass said it was too big a commission. Keller, the architect goes to London. In London, H. Walter Lonsdale is the man who cartooned the windows for St. Finbar in Cork, Ireland. Keller grows up in Cork, Ireland. He liked the windows. He went to London to find Lonsdale. Lonsdale was a transplanted American, but Lonsdale cartoons the windows. Now they need an American motif or American theme. And so they choose the 13 American colonies. And if you see the windows, you will see that there are allegorical figures, women, and each of the women holding something from the 13 original colonies. Virginia in tobacco and Pennsylvania the oil lamp. New York, the Statue of Liberty. It really is a very, very wonderful depiction of American history. And again, to honor James Garfield symbolically, other things in the monument. Then we have a statue in the monument which is 7 feet 9 inches tall. It is made of white Carrara marble. Sculptor is Alexander Doyle. Actually born in Steubenville, Ohio, but then did most of his work out of New York City. Now the statue is James Garfield speaking in the Congress of the United States, where He was for 17 years, and is a wonderful, wonderful view of James Garfield in the 1870s. The statue itself is white. And there was controversy about the statue. The architect wanted any statuary to be bronze. And Doyle had come to Cleveland when Keller was in Europe. And so we do have a quote from the architect. And the architect came back from Europe and said when he walked in our building, get that monstrosity out of my building. He’s arguing with the board of trustees. Who are the millionaires in the city of Cleveland? John D. Rockefeller and Charles Brush and Jeptha Wade. And he loses the argument. The statue has been there ever since. It’s a wonderful statue. The first thing that people look at when they walk in the door is the statue of James Garfield. So it’s really- But we have a lot of little interesting things about the building like that the rest of the building as far as artistically the red granite in our building comes from Nova Scotia simply because we hadn’t found it in Colorado yet. The American Indians of course are still active in the West. When this monument is thought of. The wainscoting in the building is really unusual. It comes from North Africa, from present day Libya and Morocco, the quarry. And it is a wonderful combination of red and really kind of pinkish marble which matches the red granite which goes along with the stained glass windows which the architect in his note said I want to give you a church like feeling when you walk in the door. And Keller thought he succeeded. We think he succeeded. It’s a wonderful, wonderful artistic. It’s high Victorian. The primary features are Gothic but it is one of the last great Victorian buildings of the 1800s. Think of anything else.
James Lanese [00:16:11] If you would go on and connect President Garfield with the building as far as his story and interests and so forth.
Bob Hook [00:16:25] Well, James Garfield, born in present day Moreland hills of course 1831. Grew up in the area. He worked as a carpenter, he worked as a teacher. He was teaching the younger kids. But his real, real love was the sea and he wanted to be a sea captain. He practically runs away from home. He comes to Cleveland, he can’t find work on the ocean going vessels. He goes down to Valley View and works on the canal. He doesn’t do well because he falls in the canal, gets pneumonia, comes back to Moreland Hills and his mother says you are going to school. Goes to school, loves it. Becomes a Greek and Latin scholar at Williams College in Massachusetts. Comes back as a full-fledged teacher. He becomes the president of Hiram College. 28 years old. Civil War hits James Garfield anti slavery. He breaks a little bit with his religion, the Disciples of Christ over this. But he goes off as a Union lieutenant colonel, goes to Kentucky. That’s one of the big battles that was Sandy Valley. And after that works for or becomes the staff of General Rosecrans at the Battle of Chickamauga. James Garfield becomes a major general. And then Abraham Lincoln said how would you like to come to Ohio and come to Washington, excuse me and represent Ohio in the Congress of the United States? I need Republicans. Garfield says yes. He quits the war in the middle 1863, comes to Washington for 17 years, is in the House of Representatives, never loses an election. He is a candidate. His district is from Ashtabula down to Youngstown in Ohio. Again, Northeast Ohio is His whole story. In 1880, when he went to the convention, he did not want to be president. He supported John Sherman and Ulysses S. Grant, wanted to be president a third time. Half the Republicans said no way. On the 36th ballot, James Garfield became the dark horse candidate, the compromise candidate for the Republican party for the election of 1880. He defeats Hancock in the election by 10,000 votes. It was a very close election. [00:19:18] And off to Washington in 1881. The inauguration was in March in those days. Inaugurated in March. Shot July 2, 1881, in the train station in Washington, D.C. lives for 80 days. They actually take him to Elberon, New Jersey, for the ocean breezes. He dies September 19, 1881. The day after the death, the trustees of Lakeview Cemetery sent a telegram to Lucretia, his widow in New Jersey, saying, would you like him to be buried in Lake View Cemetery? He made it known to us that that should be his final resting place. Lucretia said back, yes, Lake View will be the spot. He told me that also. So that is why he comes to Lakeview. She could have buried him in Arlington. He was a Union general. There was a lot of controversy afterwards about why he wasn’t buried in Mentor at the house. And Lucretia had to actually come out publicly in the paper and make it known that she was the one that in fact had said, yes, he’s going to be buried in Lake View Cemetery. So James Garfield had talked to Jeptha Wade, of course, the owner of the cemetery before. And that’s our connection now, where the monument is special. They had about five or six different places in the cemetery picked out in 1883. After collecting the money, they walked around to every spot that they thought was a good spot for the monument, looked at it, and came upon the present location, the highest point in the city of Cleveland and overlooking Lake Erie. Remember again, James Garfield wanted to be a sea captain. When they told Lucretia about the spot, she said, perfect. And that’s how the spot is chosen. And then again, the money is collected. The contest for the architect and the building of the monument actually started in 1886. So 1886 to 1890, they’re building the building. On Memorial Day of 1890, President Benjamin Harrison comes to Cleveland, Ohio to dedicate the monument to James Garfield. One of the biggest days in the history of Cleveland.
Ken Valore: Anything else? When I visited the monument summer with my sister and my wife, you asked my sister where she was from. She told you Alabama. And so you looked at your list?
Bob HOOK: Yes. Yeah, we have in the Monument. There is a book and of course it lists what the different states of the Union gave, which when they put the letter out to ask the people of the United States for money, everybody in the United States responded, including the territories at that time. And we have also from foreign countries, England, France, Australia, Canada and Belgium. Money that came in the money. Half of it comes from Ohio and the other half from all different parts of the country. The northern states, by and large gave more than the Southern states. James Garfield is a Union general, which accounts for some of that. But yeah, the money situation was 150,000 and then the money kept trickling in. So finally they got $225,000, which again is about $4 million in today’s term, to finish the monument. The money was not sufficient and there are unfinished things to do at the monument. There are actually two rooms above the dome of our monument and they are empty and possibly could actually become an observation room, the top room again today, if it could be opened. There is a limitation liability here because of railings and stuff to go up there, the outside of the building. Very interesting. In the description of the original documents, we are supposed to have 12 statues, the signs of the zodiac. We have 12 pedestals surrounding the building. We do not have statues. The money wasn’t there to complete the job. And so there are no statues there. The shields from the states. The 38 states were supposed to be on the monument with inscribed depictions of their coat of arms. We have the shields, we have no description, we have no carvings. Again, no money, not completed. So it’s very interesting that way that there are things. In the first 10 years of the monument, the records show that 679,000 people came to the monument. They charged 10 cents to get in. So they actually made the $67,000 money from the monument. And after that the records become sketchy. But we think the first 20, 30 years we averaged about 30,000 people at the monument. And I have no idea when it was open to you at that point.
Mary Krohmer [00:25:13] You mean month wise?
Bob Hook [00:25:14] Yeah, all year round or whatever.
Mary Krohmer [00:25:16] I do not know that.
Bob Hook [00:25:17] Okay. But no, that’s fun also to see the people. And then basically, I guess what’s happening then is that when William McKinley becomes president and the Spanish American War happens, you can see the figures start to drop. But this was a major tourist attraction in the city of Cleveland and in the state of Ohio. It was interesting enough the day of the dedication. Panned by the Cleveland Plain Dealer’s architectural critic. He said it was too French looking. It looked too Much like a fort, it didn’t belong in Cleveland and the architecture was out of date. Really interesting. That’s from the Cleveland Leader, by the way. So, yeah, lots again, interesting things about the monument.
Mary Krohmer [00:26:06] I think when Bob was talking to you about the first 10 years with so many visitors, I mean, think about again about the Victorian time period when cemeteries were, besides burying people, also a park like setting. And very honestly, that Victorian concept of on a Sunday morning going to church, packing a picnic lunch after church and going to the cemetery to visit their dearly departed. Very definitely that time period after the monument opened was at the height of that. And at one point, as I understand also because of the number of people coming to visit the monument and President Garfield is the lot owners were actually given tickets so that they could come in to visit their loved ones versus people coming in that had no family buried at Lakeview and visiting the president. So it was a very interesting time period. The first 10 years the monument opened.
Bob Hook [00:26:58] Yeah. Jeptha Wade invited the people to come from Cleveland. You have to remember, Cleveland ended at 55th Street. It was four and a half miles of country and farms between 55th Street and Lake View Cemetery. And he invited the people to come and bring their picnic lunches. And of course, being a wonderful businessman, sent his salesman around and was selling lots to the cemetery because in 1869 when it was founded, all the graves are down near Euclid Avenue and he has this whole big two farms actually to fill. So when they actually did the Garfield Monument, it is sitting up on a hill half a mile from Euclid Avenue. There is nothing around it. And of course the hope is by putting it up there as a wonderful visual effect, that other people will come and want to be buried in Lake View Cemetery. So that hasn’t changed in 121 years, the promotion of getting people to the cemetery and being buried here. Yeah, but. Yeah, how is the. Ken Valore: Is there some kind of foundation or something that maintains the monument?
Mary Krohmer [00:28:12] The James A. Garfield Monument actually, when it was built, was managed by the James A. Garfield Monument Commission. It was some mutual trustees of the monument and Lake View Cemetery. In 1923, that commission was in essence dissolved and the Lake View Cemetery association took over the operations of the monument and still does own and operate the monument. In 1984, Lake View Cemetery approached the federal government for funds to do some restoration in the interior. The association with the conversation with Congress, we were awarded $500,000 and we had to match that. We then organized the Lake View Cemetery foundation, which is a 501c3 public charity to help raise that match, which we did do. So there is a very small endowment, but the building is owned and operated by the Lake View Cemetery Association.
James Lanese [00:29:18] Did a local firm construct the building?
Bob Hook [00:29:21] Yes. Thomas Simmons from Berea, Ohio, was awarded the contract for the outside of the building. And of course, Berea, Ohio, has Berea sandstone quarries at this time. And when the architect Keller came to Cleveland, the building originally was supposed to be granite. And he saw that by using Berea sandstone, he could save lots of money. He used the stone, put the money into the interior. But Thomas Simmons is a local builder contract, and there were five or six bids. He won the contract. Now, the other thing about the engineering of the building originally was that about after they started building about already six months into it, some of the engineers in Cleveland decided that maybe there was something going to go wrong here. The building was too heavy. And so the architect, George Keller, actually had to bring in a man from New York, an engineer, and they determined that the building was not going to sink into the ground. Berea sandstone, of course, being very porous, is not as heavy as some of the other materials. But Berea sandstone, being porous, absorbs pollution. So our building, like the old stone church, like the arcade, like the. Really the Society of Savings, all have turned over the years. In our case, of course, mostly black.
Ken Valore: Are there plants to clean it? They asked me. Yet.
James Lanese [00:31:11] There’S a lot of information and data concerning the stonework within Lakeview as being contributed considerably by the local residents of Italy. Was that true with the construction of the monument as well?
Bob Hook [00:31:34] The Italians who came to do the dome of our monument, we believe half of them built their houses next door to the cemetery. The other group couldn’t find enough work here in Cleveland and they went back to Italy. But the group that stayed, of course, formed the basis of Little Italy. Now, Joseph Carabelli, the father of Little Italy, had come to Cleveland in 1880, and he was the master stone carver. He wanted to again get his work into the cemetery, and he offered to do the base where the casket lies in the cemetery here. It is unknown, as far as I know, whether he did that or not, but what he did do was to make his firm available for other people to have stones made. And so the Carabelli firm was the first. Today it’s the Johns Carabelli, of course, still in existence. Joseph Carabelli is considered one of the finest carvers of granite in the United States. Ever people I have the gentleman came who did the stone in the cultural gardens just recently, for, I want to say, Lithuania, he went to some of the monuments I pointed out and said, Carabelli did this work. And he said, that’s impossible. Can’t be done. It is so well done. So absolutely. Carabelli then invited his friends to come from Italy. The people did come who were the stone carvers, continued the tradition of living in Little Italy. There are still smoke ovens and stuff in back of some of those houses. It’s really interesting. Where the communal bread was baked, People from Little Italy walked to work. The wall on Mayfield was not there, and Depression. And so they walked to work, actually. And then when it came time to be buried, you will find a section in our cemetery which is against that wall, which is primarily Italian. Really interesting.
Mary Krohmer [00:34:02] Carabelli also, for those that didn’t have the skills to be stone masons, the Italian immigrants would then come in and cut the grass and trim the trees. So besides having the artistry tied with it, the immigrants did help with landscape at Lakeview.
Bob Hook [00:34:24] Can I tell them the story?
Mary Krohmer [00:34:25] What story?
Bob Hook [00:34:27] About the organ grinder.
Mary Krohmer [00:34:29] I don’t remember that story. Yeah, I don’t remember that story.
Bob Hook [00:34:33] Interesting story about the Italians. A woman came to the monument one day and said, my grandfather was the organ grinder in Little Italy. And he had a monkey. Of course, like in those days, everyone did. And she said, he is buried against the wall here in Lakeview Cemetery. Is the monkey buried here also? And I ran down to the office and everybody I could find, I asked the question, you know, do we bury animals? And the answer is, no, we do not bury animals. But being where the location is next to the wall next to Little Italy, there is some speculation that in the cover of darkness, someone came over here and buried the monkey next to the grandfather. So those are fun stories. Those are the fun stories. Yeah. When people come.
James Lanese [00:35:34] Among presidents. You had mentioned earlier that about half of the presidents are buried in the ground.
Bob Hook [00:35:40] Yes.
James Lanese [00:35:42] How is the Garfield Monument unique with respect to monuments to presidents?
Bob Hook [00:35:50] Okay. We believe we consider five buildings in the United States to be of the size and stature of the Garfield Monument. Ulysses S. Grant’s memorial in New York City is larger overall, but is not as high as the Garfield Monument were. 180 feet. And grant’s is 150. That’s one of the buildings. McKinley’s tomb in Canton, Ohio, is a wonderful white building with green sarcophagi in the middle, but it does not contain the color of James Garfield’s monument. But that is another large one. In Marion, Ohio, William- Warren G. Harding Memorial a round rotunda. Again, massive, but not the color that Garfield’s memorial has. And the final building, which is of course Lincoln’s in Springfield, Illinois. Wonderful, wonderful brown marble. It’s a gorgeous building. It’s not as big overall, it’s not as high, but it is a wonderful building to visit because, of course, of Abraham Lincoln. Now, other than those five, and I tell all the kids, the kids from Cleveland come in and they believe that all presidents are buried like James Garfield. And you have to make it very clear there are only five buildings like it. The only one that comes anywhere close to the color is the Woodrow Wilson burial site, which is glad. The Washington Cathedral in Washington D.C. and of course, his little crypt downstairs is colorful, but it’s really a church. They also ask me about George Washington and say, well, Washington’s buried in the Washington Monument. The answer, of course, is no, he’s not buried in the Washington Monument. His family didn’t want him there. It is 555 feet. It’s a wonderful building, but it is not a burial place. So again, only five buildings like it in the United States. And more than half the presidents in the ground with a stone mentioned the.
Mary Krohmer [00:38:05] Casket on full display too.
Bob Hook [00:38:07] Oh, yes. Other unusual feature of Lake View and the Garfield Memorial is that James Garfield was kept above ground from the day of the funeral to the day of the dedication. Lucretia, his widow, put him in the receiving vault here in Lake View. And they guarded it day and night for eight and a half years. It came to the monument about a month before the dedication. And because of the unique feature, because what had happened, James Garfield had come to Cleveland for the funeral in a wooden box. A company in New York City had seen or heard about that in and they offered to send the first sheet bronze casket to Cleveland. And in fact, it was done. Garfield was transferred into the sheet metal casket. That is what was placed in the receiving vault. And then a month before the dedication, they brought that casket up to the monument, placed it downstairs on the base. And it is unique because it is the only president’s casket you will see on display. Everyone else is either covered with marble or granite or somewhere. You know, it’s really, really unique. And the number one question, of course, from all the kids is, is there a body inside the casket? And the answer is yes. Lucretia was buried here. 37 years later, she died of the Spanish influenza. She was actually in Pasadena where her son actually had built the house in Pasadena. Another quick story here. The oldest Living relative. Bob. Rudolph. Rudolph. Bob.
Mary Krohmer [00:40:00] Rudolph Garfield.
Bob Hook [00:40:01] Thank you. Rudolph Garfield came to the monument one day and I said, can you tell me something about the house in California? And he said, no, but I have a story for you. Another gentleman and I were in California in Pasadena. We knew the house was there. We walked up to the door, identified ourselves and said, could we look around? And the occupant of the house says, no, I don’t know who you are and I don’t care. Get out of here. So very, very interesting. I get little tidbits like that. I love it when the Garfields come because you can ask them questions. They’re very, very good about answering questions. And it’s just a wonderful, wonderful experience to add to my knowledge too, it really is.
Mary Krohmer [00:40:45] Rudolph Garfield is the great grandson of the president. The military is charged to place a wreath at all former president’s graves on or close to their birthday. We will do again the wreath holding ceremony of November 19th. Rudolph will be present. We have the wife of James the third, who passed away about four or five years ago. And then we do have great, great, great grandsons that will be present along with their children. So we have four generations of Garfield family members that will be here to remember president Garfield. And as Bob said, it’s wonderful when the Garfields do visit the Garfield monument.
Bob Hook [00:41:24] Yeah, the youngest one is great, great, great, great four greats granddaughter. She’s nine years old this year. Her name is Molly. They, they kept the family names going. And when Mary said Rudolph, it’s because the wife’s name, Lucretia Rudolph Garfield. So all those names are still in the family. It’s a wonderful, wonderful thing they’ve done there. But she’s nine years old. She comes to the monument. She put flowers downstairs by the caskets and just didn’t want to be known. It was fun.
James Lanese [00:41:59] Is the monument site used for any other events or is it strictly reserved as a grave site?
Mary Krohmer [00:42:13] The monument, of course, is almost a tourist destination. As Bob indicated, we do use the area of the James A. Garfield monument for a couple different, different types of programs. One being the Memorial day observance at Lakeview cemetery on Memorial day. As Bob talked about president Garfield being a major general in the civil war, President Garfield actually was the first keynote speaker at Arlington national Cemetery Memorial Day in 1869. So it’s a wonderful tie to have our Memorial day observance in front of the James A. Garfield monument. And that day we have 18 to 20 patriotic and veteran groups that place wreaths in front of the Monument. We also, for just again, the view and the area that the monument is located. We actually hold band concerts on the hillside at the Garfield monument during the summer months, June, July and August. And it’s just the hillside is just a natural venue for people to come and enjoy concerts. We do because of the location of the monument. Most of our walking tours that we conduct at Lakeview cemetery do start at the Garfield monument. It’s easy for the general public to locate the monument itself. We have about 13 miles of roads in the cemetery, and without getting people lost, we just say enter the Mayfield gate and just kind of follow the road to the left. So there are various functions that are held primarily in the outside of the Garfield monument.
James Lanese [00:43:48] Are there ever any religious affiliated ceremonies or observances?
Mary Krohmer [00:43:54] Boy, not that I can remember. No. I mean, Wade memorial chapel on the cemetery property kind of lends itself to the religious aspect. And of course, president Garfield was a very religious man. But at this point, we have not had any type of religious ceremony.
Bob Hook [00:44:15] James Garfield is the only ordained minister to be President of the United States. The Disciples of Christ. And his home church still stands behind Lutheran west hospital, the Franklin circle church, where he was a minister. Rode 40 miles from Hiram across the river, you know, to ferry across the river. Two services every Sunday. Again, interesting. He apparently got tired of doing that, went to the trustees and said, can I have a raise? And the board of trustees, it’s in their books, by the way. You can see this. Said no, and he quit as the minister. Many plaques in Cleveland for James Garfield, though, where he preached. James Garfield is also one of the freemason presidents. And so his home lodge is in Garrettsville. And from time to time, we get people from Garrettsville who come up and they know that connection with James Garfield also. But yes, his mother, Eliza Ballou, had established, along with Alexander Campbell, the disciples of Christ’s religion in northeast east Ohio. [00:45:26] So very, very religious upbringing of James Garfield. Yes.
James Lanese [00:45:31] Who succeeded James as president.
Bob Hook [00:45:35] Chester alon Arthur was the vice president chosen because Garfield needed to balance the ticket. The wing of the party that he fought with so much had to have a candidate. And the vice president, Chester Arthur was from New York. And at Garfield’s death, Arthur takes over as president for the three and a half years, wants to run for a second term. [00:46:05] The Republicans turn him out. And so actually, Arthur died the very next year.
Mary Krohmer [00:46:17] Bit of trivia also. That was, I think, the only year in 1881 when there were actually three presidents. Three different presidents of the United States.
James Lanese [00:46:38] Is there anything Else that you’d like to add.
Mary Krohmer [00:46:42] Why don’t you talk about the opening in the floor in. In the lobby and the balcony?
Bob Hook [00:46:47] Oh, okay. Well, the people who come to the monument today walk right over a rectangle in the main foyer of the building. Really don’t realize that what they’re walking on was or is a trap door which was opened when they brought the casket over the month before 1890, when they were going to do the dedication of the monument. There is a spiral staircase going downstairs which does not accommodate a casket. And so the floor was cut, the trapdoor is there, and the casket is lowered to the bottom crypt. The floor was filled in, and 121 years later, it’s still. The rectangle can be seen and it’s covered with the mosaic and the marble and very, very interesting. And why the architect never accounted for that is another unknown. We simply don’t know why he never did. Fifteen years after Garfield’s funeral, they built a marble staircase in the monument going downstairs to the crypt because they knew with the visitors and with Lucretia still alive that someday she would be buried there and the family, that they would have to do something else instead of going through this whole process again. And so they in fact, built a staircase and brought the other bodies down that staircase. Yes. The other nice feature of our building, which is visited by many, many people again towards. When’s the air show? Labor Day. Because of the air show, they come in and promptly say about two words to me and march upstairs the 64 stairs, because we have an open balcony upstairs. And when you get to that balcony, you can see 40 some miles of the Cleveland shoreline. You can see every building from Case all the way down to downtown. And the crib out in the lake, of course, is about five miles from our building. On a good day, you can see probably 10 miles out, you can see all the way to Avon. It is really, really a unique view of the city of Cleveland. And it’s one that we encourage everybody to go up and see because it is so, so wonderful. We do have to lock it up for the air show because people come with their coolers and their chairs and they want to sit up there. The planes, the Thunderbirds do, or the Blue Angels, whoever comes that year, do come by and do the turnarounds and stuff using the monument many times. And so they are very close and it’s a wonderful experience to hear them roar. But you can’t have them up there because of liability problems and other people going up. So we lock it up.
James Lanese [00:49:59] Is there anything else you’d like to add?
Mary Krohmer [00:50:01] The only thing that I’d like to mention is the Garfield monument is open daily April 1 through November 19, which, as Bob mentioned, is the president’s birthday. The building is open 9 in the morning until 4 in the afternoon. And we always have guides in the building to talk about the beauty of the building and the history of James Garfield’s life.
James Lanese [00:50:23] Bob, anything else?
Bob Hook [00:50:24] Just that we do encourage people to go to mentor and then to our building or from our building to Mentor to get a complete picture of the life of James Garfield. It’s always better to have both of those aspects. And of course, if you have the ability to go to Moreland Hills also on the way to see his recreated log cabin where he was born. And so it’s kind of like a triangle that we recommend people do to get the complete picture, because this is a man that’s ranked 27 out of 44 as presidents are ranked. And it’s because of his previous experience. He was president for only 200 days. There are no bills signed by James Garfield, and yet he rests in one of the most unique monuments in the United States. It’s a wonderful tribute to the man.
James Lanese [00:51:20] Thank you very much for your time and story.
Bob Hook [00:51:24] Thank you.
Mary Krohmer [00:51:25] Thank you.
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