Abstract
Barbara Grey, a Shaker Heights resident, served as the president of the Shaker Heights School Board for eight years. She oversaw school closings and integration. All five of Grey's childten went to the Shaker public schools and now she has two grandkids in the schools. She is impressed by the vibrant arts programs at the schools and the active school community. She says Shaker Heights is a civic minded city and residents are always involved in the commnity whether it be the schools, the library, or finding out more about the city's past. Grey is happy to live in such an active, close knt community.
Loading...
Interviewee
Gray, Barbara (interviewee)
Interviewer
Halligan-Taylor, Gabriella (interviewer)
Project
Shaker Heights Centennial
Date
6-28-2012
Document Type
Oral History
Duration
43 minutes
Recommended Citation
"Barbara Gray Interview, 28 June 2012" (2012). Cleveland Regional Oral History Collection. Interview 915017.
https://engagedscholarship.csuohio.edu/crohc000/493
Transcript
Gabriella Halligan-Taylor [00:00:00] Let’s just start out with, start with the basic, you know, what’s your name? Where were you born?
Barbara Gray [00:00:08] My name is Barbara Gray. Barbara Mulvihill Gray. I was born in a suburb of New York and moved to Cleveland in 1958, about.
Gabriella Halligan-Taylor [00:00:26] Why did you move?
Barbara Gray [00:00:27] My husband’s employment was here after the Army.
Gabriella Halligan-Taylor [00:00:31] In New York, what did your parents do?
Barbara Gray [00:00:37] My father was in the insurance business, my mother was a homemaker.
Gabriella Halligan-Taylor [00:00:42] And you went to school there?
Barbara Gray [00:00:44] Yes.
Gabriella Halligan-Taylor [00:00:45] And did you continue with college?
Barbara Gray [00:00:48] I went to college at Mount Holyoke College in South Hadley, Massachusetts.
Gabriella Halligan-Taylor [00:00:53] Okay. And then, you got married?
Barbara Gray [00:00:57] Married, yeah.
Gabriella Halligan-Taylor [00:00:59] Where did you go to, in Cleveland, where did you move to?
Barbara Gray [00:01:06] We first, well, we first lived in a two family home in Shaker. Then we moved to an area in Warrensville Heights called Shakerwood, which was of a starter community for young families. And we were there for about eight years and then we moved to our present address in Shaker. We’ve been in our house for 44 years.
Gabriella Halligan-Taylor [00:01:31] And where is that? What neighborhood is your house in?
Barbara Gray [00:01:35] It’s right across the street from the Shaker Middle School.
Gabriella Halligan-Taylor [00:01:40] So you’re right there. And your children went through the Shaker schools?
Barbara Gray [00:01:45] Five children all went through, graduated from Shaker schools.
Gabriella Halligan-Taylor [00:01:51] And what was it like kind of back in early ’50s to kind of through the turbulent ’60s around here? What was that like to live through?
Barbara Gray [00:02:03] You know, we were so busy raising family and children. Our children were too young to be part of the turbulent part of that generation. We were too old to be part of it really. And so it was not something that deeply affected us at the time.
Gabriella Halligan-Taylor [00:02:23] Because your kids were probably really young still?
Barbara Gray [00:02:25] Right.
Gabriella Halligan-Taylor [00:02:26] Okay. So then going through the ’70s and the ’80s. I know you’re president of the school board, correct? In the ’80s?
Barbara Gray [00:02:33] Yes, I was. I was on the board from 1980 to 1988.
Gabriella Halligan-Taylor [00:02:38] And so I know a lot of changes went through. Can you speak on why?
Barbara Gray [00:02:41] Yes, you’re right, Sure. I had been involved with the Shaker schools from ever since my children were involved through volunteer activities in the PTA district wide committees of one kind or another. One of the hot button issues that I was involved with was, at that time all elementary school children went home for lunch. And there was a desire to have children be able to stay at school for lunch. And that was the beginning of the period of time where more working mothers, and so there was a district wide committee to study the issue. I was not personally involved or in favor or disfavor one way or another, but it was an eye opening opportunity for me to see different viewpoints, different sides of the issue among a group of very vocal and very active citizens. And from that point on, I guess I was involved in a number of other district study committees of one sort or another and volunteered in the middle school library and so forth, and eventually was approached by the Shaker Heights Citizens Committee to consider running for school board. Shaker Height Citizens Committee is a nonpartisan organization made up of citizens who try to encourage people to run for the school board who they feel would be interested in the welfare of the community and of the schools. And my first reaction was, oh, who wants that kind of a headache? But then I realized with my level of experience with the schools and my knowledge of how they work and the personnel and the parents and many teachers, I thought, well, I guess it’s my turn to step up and do a civic duty. So I did agree to be interviewed by the committee and was selected as one of their candidates to run for school board, and then was elected and reelected four years later for a second term.
Gabriella Halligan-Taylor [00:05:12] And what was the politics like?
Barbara Gray [00:05:16] Well, by law, in Ohio, the school board race is nonpartisan, and in Shaker, that tradition is upheld quite, quite strongly. So it was a question of people who in the community who had strong opinions on issues, but not partisan issues. And that’s the only reason I was even willing to run, because I felt very strongly that it should be nonpartisan. The issues at the time were, and always have been and continue to be financing of education, tax structure. Shaker Heights has very little commercial property to tax, so therefore, the burden is on the homeowners. And so it’s always been expensive to, for the homeowners, the taxpayers. So that’s always been an ongoing issue. There was concern happening nationally, drop in population, that we might have to close some schools at some point. So those were really the- Well, the main issue, really, that Shaker Heights was dealing with in a very positive way, but nevertheless stressful for many people was integration, integration, racial integration in the community and in the schools.
Gabriella Halligan-Taylor [00:06:49] And how old were your kids when you were going through the school board?
Barbara Gray [00:06:57] Two or maybe three of them were already out of the schools, had graduated and were off to college, which gave me a perspective, looking back, were they well prepared? Yes, they were very well prepared. And I had one, I think, in middle school and one in elementary school, and then followed up. By the time I finished my eight years on the school board, I think all of my kids were out of school by then. They were all in college or out of college.
Gabriella Halligan-Taylor [00:07:29] So what were some of the big changes, kind of dealing with the issues of integration, funding, equality?
Barbara Gray [00:07:35] The big changes, at least in terms for the schools, were to try to maintain the high standards and quality of education, at the same time providing opportunities on a voluntary basis for parents to become part of the integration process. And so we developed some innovative programs in the different schools where parents could select an emphasis on French in one school or, I’ve forgotten what some of the others were, history in another one or something, and could voluntarily transfer their children to a school that would improve the racial balance of that school. And that program was in existence for quite a few years and helped bridge the period of time that we needed to help the community to adjust to the changing demographics of the community.
Gabriella Halligan-Taylor [00:08:49] I knew that the library was a school, wasn’t it?
Barbara Gray [00:08:53] That’s correct. Yes, it was. Moreland School.
Gabriella Halligan-Taylor [00:08:56] Okay, that’s what I thought.
Barbara Gray [00:08:57] And Moreland School was in an area that was largely Black and therefore the population of the school was largely minority and was one of the schools that was difficult for reasons, many reasons, transportation and others, to try to internally make the area, the school, more racially balanced. So our next effort then was a really combined effort when we recognized that we needed to close some schools. How do you go about that? If there’s anything that’s stressful for any school district, it’s closing. School Shaker was known for its quote unquote neighborhood schools. You lived in the Moreland area, you lived in the Onaway area, you lived in the Sussex area. And those were all clustered around an elementary school. So to close any of those had far reaching effects for the communities themselves. So our plan was then, after much discussion and changes of plans and so forth, our plan then was to move the ninth grade from a junior high into the high school, make it a four-year high school first. And then we combined the seventh and eighth grades into one of the two middle schools to create a middle school. And then the question was, what do you do with the, I think there were eight or nine elementary schools, and that was the most difficult ones for the community to accept. Ultimately, then the plan turned out that we closed four elementary schools and redrew boundaries that would help to improve the integration of all of the remaining schools, some of which were more white than the population of the community and others which were more black than the population of the school community. In doing so, then we turned the former junior high school, Woodbury, into a fifth and sixth grade upper elementary school. That is the plan that is still in existence in the community today. I think it has worked quite well in terms of the community accepting the fact that the neighborhoods schools would change to some degree. But Shaker also had a strong sense of neighborhood communities, even outside of the schools, and many of them have remained the same. The Malvern community is still the Malvern community, even though the school has closed and so forth. So I think the plan worked quite well and has certainly for more than 20 years, been successful.
Gabriella Halligan-Taylor [00:12:21] At that first initial kind of change, when the schools closed, did that drive people away, or do you think people just wanted to make it work as a community and as a city?
Barbara Gray [00:12:32] The character of the people of Shaker Heights has always been very outspoken, but ultimately supportive of the community and recognized the many attributes of living in community like Shaker, one of which was to be in an integrated community. So I think, by and large, people were willing to give it a try. And I would say most people stayed and became part of the process. Some families may have chosen to move their children to private school. Others may have physically moved out of the community, but not in huge numbers. By that time, the concept of Shaker as an integrated community had been quite well established and accepted by the people who were living there. And today, most of the people who were affected by the changes at the time, their children have moved up and out, and they have sometimes moved up and out, too. So I think it’s an issue that’s no longer one that’s divisive at all in the community.
Gabriella Halligan-Taylor [00:13:51] And when did Moreland make the switch, the building at least, make the switch to be the library?
Barbara Gray [00:13:59] Oh, gosh.
Gabriella Halligan-Taylor [00:14:01] Was that recently?
Barbara Gray [00:14:01] No, that was- We closed it as a school while I was still on the school board. And there was a period of time of indecision about what we would do with the closed buildings. And so it didn’t immediately happen. But within a couple of years after the school was closed as a school, it was remodeled and reopened as the library. The library, which old main library, which is right next door, was outgrowing its space and had been looking around for space and thought, well, but the Moreland School is a pretty big school, more space than they really needed or wanted, but ultimately found there were other uses. Turning, like the room we’re sitting in right now, into meeting rooms for the community. Computers becoming more and more popular. Then we have big computer lab and so forth. So I would say that it happened certainly by 1989 or ’90 or so.
Gabriella Halligan-Taylor [00:15:14] It seems like a, kind of almost like a little community center. I see people in it for a long time, a bunch of activities. Has that always kind of been like that, or has that changed?
Barbara Gray [00:15:24] Well, that has been growing as the space has been remodeled and made more accessible to people. There’s a preschool drop in center down the hall. There’s a teen center. Now a lot of kids, especially middle school aged kids, didn’t seem to have any place to go after school, nobody at home. So they would come and congregate at the library. And kids being kids, were getting kind of boisterous and a little bit noisy and disturbing other people who are used to a quieter library. So they opened up a teen center here where kids can come and kind of hang out. And I think they can also get help with homework and things like that. So they’ve found quite a few different uses for the space here. And certainly as computer use has grown, that has taken up more and more space in this big building.
Gabriella Halligan-Taylor [00:16:24] Right. So did your, did your children kind of have a really good experience going through Shaker?
Barbara Gray [00:16:33] Yes, I would say they did. Sometimes you don’t appreciate what you have until after you’ve been away from it. I think they realized when they got to college that they were very well prepared compared to some other people. And as they now have children of their own and are involved in education. Two of my grandchildren are in the Shaker schools, others are in other parts of the country. But I think they realize that it was a unique experience to grow up in a community that accepted integration as a norm.
Gabriella Halligan-Taylor [00:17:18] And so you’ve lived in the same house for-
Barbara Gray [00:17:20] 44, 45 years.
Gabriella Halligan-Taylor [00:17:24] And besides kind of being actively involved in the school system, were there any other kind of community activities that you or your husband or children are involved in?
Barbara Gray [00:17:34] Well, yes, we, of course, well, the branch library, the Bertram Woods branch library of the Shaker Library system is right down the street from us. So that’s been a huge resource for us. Thornton Park, the swimming pool and tennis court and ice rink of Shaker Heights was within walking or bike riding distance. So our kids use that quite a bit. While I was on the school board, we had a lot of interactive communities, committees rather that I was involved with the city looking at various things. Recreation program was one. We used to have a jointly sponsored and funded recreation program between the city and the schools that has now separated. But we had a separate recreation board. And as a Shaker School board member, I often served on that recreation board. The Shaker Schools Foundation was founded while I was on the board, and I served in that capacity, first as a board member representative. And then after my term on the board expired, I continued on for another term on the Shaker Schools Foundation, raising money for additional projects and activities for the school district teacher grants and various other community involved programs. And I guess just have always felt a keen sense of wanting to know what was going on in the community and being involved.
Gabriella Halligan-Taylor [00:19:25] Were there any kind of place that you would go? You mentioned Thornton Park, but were there any kind of theaters or restaurants they would kind of regularly go to?
Barbara Gray [00:19:36] Not located within Shaker Heights. We used to have, actually, we used to have two movie theaters, of course, years ago. Many, many years ago, those all had closed. There are a few restaurants in Shaker, but not too many, unfortunately. So we do venture out from outside Shaker too.
Gabriella Halligan-Taylor [00:20:02] Were you ever on the west side?
Barbara Gray [00:20:05] Of course, the old joke is, do you have your passport if you’re going to the west side? We don’t get over there too frequently. We have some friends in Rocky River and various other places that we have visited from, from time to time. But I haven’t been there in a long time, but some years back I used to go to the West Side Market, things like that, a couple of restaurants on the west side, but we don’t go over there too often.
Gabriella Halligan-Taylor [00:20:33] It’s the Shaker centennial it’s also the West Side Market centennial this year.
Barbara Gray [00:20:37] Yes, right. That’s true, yes.
Gabriella Halligan-Taylor [00:20:43] Before 480 was built, was it kind of virtually impossible to get to the west side?
Barbara Gray [00:20:50] Well, it certainly was more difficult, but not, certainly not impossible. You had Detroit-Superior Bridge and others downtown. And just really in general, compared to other cities, Cleveland is really a much easier city to get around, at least in terms of rush hour and things. We don’t really understand what a rush hour is here in Cleveland compared to a lot of other cities. So we’ve been very fortunate in that respect. So it’s possible to do it. Mostly things that we want to participate in are either within the east side or downtown Cleveland, the Playhouse Square area, things like that.
Gabriella Halligan-Taylor [00:21:39] Was there a kind of certain attitude about, like your west side versus east side? Was it just kind of overall Cleveland?
Barbara Gray [00:21:48] Oh, I guess you hear a lot about the west side - east side divide and of course the river is a physical divide and so it’s kind of a natural division too. But I think from the standpoint of people feeling free or comfortable to go either place, there are lots of people who go over to the west side to restaurants and so forth. So I think it’s something that perhaps the media plays at more than reality.
Gabriella Halligan-Taylor [00:22:27] So kind of going through, are you still involved in the Shaker schools now?
Barbara Gray [00:22:32] Not in any direct way. I still maintain an interest in what’s going on. And having two grandchildren in the Shaker schools, I certainly maintain a keen interest in it. And I’ve been to several of their programs in their various schools, elementary, middle school programs, and have one granddaughter in the Shaker Middle School, and have been tremendously impressed with the music program that they have there. And at Woodbury, the upper elementary school, where starting in fifth grade, all children must take an instrument and they have an opportunity to try them out. And parents can rent the instruments so they don’t have to buy them. And if parents can’t afford them, they do have some available for kids, too. So I think that starts them off in becoming interested in music. And many of them do continue on. I understand now they have over 300 kids who want to be in the marching band for the next year. The marching band practices right across the street from us on the playing fields of the middle school, which is so much fun. I love listening to them and watching them. I hear the Star Spangled Banner over and over and over all day. But it’s fun. And I’m impressed with how quickly they can coordinate not just playing the music, but coordinate movement with it, too. So I enjoy that experience very much. Being across from the middle school, we tend to see more activity of kids coming and going too.
Barbara Gray [00:24:20] So it makes it still a very young, vibrant community for us.
Gabriella Halligan-Taylor [00:24:28] I hear about the high school music program, theatre program-
Barbara Gray [00:24:32] Continues tremendously, impressed with the music and theater programs there, too. I haven’t been actively involved in them since we haven’t had anyone at the high school for a number of years. But as my grandchildren approach that, why, I’m sure I’ll be interested in seeing more of that, too. But it has been just a wonderful program. A number of the graduates have gone on to Broadway and Hollywood and other successes in writing, creating, acting, in theater and music.
Gabriella Halligan-Taylor [00:25:07] How important do you think that is in education?
Barbara Gray [00:25:10] I think it’s tremendously important because you’re not going to remember the facts that you learn in history or the mathematical formulas you learn or things like that and probably won’t use them again. But music stays with you all your life. It’s one of the senses, apparently, that stays with you. Even through Alzheimer’s and other degenerative diseases, people still respond to music. So I think that’s extremely important. Certainly in today’s world of communications, theater and movies and stage activities are becoming a bigger and bigger part of our culture. And so, yes, I think it’s very important that kids learn the basics of that early.
Gabriella Halligan-Taylor [00:26:09] Did your kids do any kind of theater?
Barbara Gray [00:26:13] Yeah, a little bit. Not as much as I think the kids are doing today. Our daughters were in dance and choir programs primarily, none of them played musical instruments. They played piano, but not marching band types of instruments or anything. And I think today, if I were to do it over again, I would push that a little bit more because I see that as something that they can come back to later in life and would probably benefit from having had an early experience with it.
Gabriella Halligan-Taylor [00:26:51] Do you know anything about kind of living in Van Sweringen kind of houses and how they built it up?
Barbara Gray [00:26:59] Yes. I’ve been involved in the Shaker Historical Society for a number of years, some years more actively than others. But I attend a lot of their programs now. I used to do the book purchasing for the museum shop. And there was a period of time where there was a tremendous amount of interest, not just in Shaker Heights, but nationally, about the Shakers. And about every week a new book about the Shakers came out that I think has shifted and changed somewhat right now. But one of the books that came out while I was involved in the museum was the book on Distinguished Homes of Shaker Heights by Richard Campen, and coffee table book. Beautiful, beautiful photos of a lot of the homes and information about the architects and so forth. That was an extremely popular book. Then it was out of print. And I, up until a couple of years ago, I was still getting phone calls from people who wanted to know if I knew where they could buy a copy of it. It was just highly sought after. You could buy them on eBay for hundreds of dollars. Since then, the book has now been republished and is available at the Shaker Historical Museum and other places, and is still a very popular book because there were a number of distinguished architects who designed the houses in Shaker. And the houses have stood the test of time very, very well. Many of them, of course, have been modernized and updated over the years. But even in areas where there were smaller homes, two family homes in the original planning of Shaker, they were all designed by architects and were made to look like Shaker homes and have very distinct, distinctive styles. And it has made the community distinctive. The other very distinctive part about the community, of course, is all the trees. And when you look at early, early pictures of Shaker Heights, of course this was all farmland. There were no trees. And then suddenly you look at later pictures and there are all these beautiful elms arching over all of the streets. Now, of course, almost all the elms are gone. So the city is trying to replant with a variety of trees so that you no longer have a monoculture that will just be wiped out. But nevertheless, we still have a lot of old and very attractive trees, which is nature’s air conditioning.
Gabriella Halligan-Taylor [00:29:51] These ones out here I saw outside the library are huge.
Barbara Gray [00:29:55] Yeah. Not sure, there may still be a couple of elms. I think that looks like maybe an elm there. There are still some elms around.
Gabriella Halligan-Taylor [00:30:03] Wasn’t there only, kind of when you wanted to build a new house, wasn’t there only a handful of designs you could actually?
Barbara Gray [00:30:10] Oh, I think early there were some restrictions. And I do remember probably maybe in the early 60s, a fairly distinguished architect wanted to build a very contemporary style home on a vacant lot and built on lot. And there was a lot of opposition to that. And I do, if I recall correctly, I do think he had to modify his design somewhat, but it and several other very contemporary homes have since been built. In fact, this particular house I’m thinking of, I think it was Donald Hisaka or something is his name. His home was just recently mentioned in the paper as having withstood the time that it was built, I think in the 1960s. So, yes, there are some very different looking houses now. Large parts of Shaker are now in designated historic districts. And there still are, I think, some restrictions then as to how drastic you can, drastically you can change the exteriors of the homes. You can do whatever you want inside, as long as it is up to code.
Gabriella Halligan-Taylor [00:31:27] Right. Did that kind of set the, you know, set kind of the bar kind of the, I guess the feeling of Shaker?
Barbara Gray [00:31:40] Oh, I think so, yes, very definitely. You see pictures of a community and if you see one of Shaker, you can almost say, oh, that looks like Shaker Heights. And sure enough, it is. Some of the newer areas further east that were built after World War II have a different feel and different style to them and are not as distinctively recognizable as Shaker homes. Still, one of the restrictions that is not 100% depending on the lots, but if you drive around the community, you don’t see garages. Some of them are detached garages in the back and others have back entryway garages. And so that adds to the uniformity and the charm of the neighborhood.
Gabriella Halligan-Taylor [00:32:45] Is your house kind of one of these uniform houses?
Barbara Gray [00:32:50] No. Well, our house was built in 1933 and it’s a brick and stone house and very much a stone Shakers style. The architect was, I forget his first name, Norcross, who’s done a lot of houses in Shaker and elsewhere in the area. I would call it a very traditional Shaker home.
Gabriella Halligan-Taylor [00:33:16] Were there any kind of other, normally I’d be like up to an hour about but I asked all my questions. And you speak very wonderfully. Were there any kind of, any kind of unique stories that you have of, kind of Shaker-related or school-related?
Barbara Gray [00:33:36] Well, since my background and my most intense involvement was with the Shaker schools, I would go back to that a little bit and just say that the eight years that I speak spent on the school board were rewarding, very stressful, very community involved. And we were going through a difficult time. We had to select a new superintendent. We were faced with closing schools, we were faced with realigning the schools in the community and at the same time maintaining and enhancing the Shaker efforts and tradition for enhancing integration wherever and whenever we could. And I feel gratified that I think the decisions we made have held up over time and were probably the correct decisions for the improvement and the betterment of Shaker Heights as a community and a wonderful, desirable place to live. But there were difficult times. And I think what surprised me the most was how much I enjoyed campaigning when I was running for office. That was not something I was necessarily looking forward to, but it meant a lot of walking door to door. And you see a community differently when you’re walking through it than when you’re driving through it. You have time to notice the houses, the people, the yards, the gardens. And we’d often walk around on Saturdays and people would be out mowing their lawns and you’d start, stop and talk to people. And I really enjoyed that opportunity to feel that I knew the community in a way that I would not have otherwise. So that part of it was very enjoyable. But I think what’s unique about Shaker is people who choose to run or are asked to run for a school board are doing it because they are civic bodied. They want to better their community, they want to make a contribution. It’s not to further your political career or to gain any kind of line in your biography or anything, but you just want to help your community. And I’ve continued to know many of the people who have served on the school board. I knew many of the ones who had served in the past and they’ve all just been very civic-minded people who want to do their job, serve their community and make a difference. And that’s Shaker. That’s very much Shaker Heights.
Gabriella Halligan-Taylor [00:36:45] And with the centennial, has that just kept [inaudible]?
Barbara Gray [00:36:51] Yes. Not to make me feel old or anything, but I was involved, because I was on the school board, I was involved in the 75th celebration for the 75th anniversary of Shaker Heights, a wonderful community-minded person by the name of Sandy Goodman, who unfortunately died a number of years ago. Very civic-minded person. She chaired that committee for the 75th. And you still see the logo that was developed then on the service trucks and definite sense of community then. This hundredth celebration is focusing on very different things, which is kind of interesting. A lot of it has been focused on the ecology of growing your own vegetables and plants and things, which was something we hadn’t even thought about back 25 years ago. So we’re keeping up with the times at the same time maintaining the values and the tradition and the heritage of Shaker Heights.
Gabriella Halligan-Taylor [00:38:07] Any kind of final thoughts?
Barbara Gray [00:38:13] I feel privileged to have lived in Shaker, especially privileged to have been selected to serve the community for eight years on the school board and hope that I’ve made some contribution to the betterment of the community, which is, I guess, what Shaker Heights is all about.
Gabriella Halligan-Taylor [00:38:42] I spoke to Charlene Higginbotham, and she told me yesterday that you can’t be selfish when you’re in Shaker.
Barbara Gray [00:38:53] That’s interesting. Yes.
Gabriella Halligan-Taylor [00:38:56] You have to always be willing to serve the community.
Barbara Gray [00:38:58] We are willing to serve, which isn’t the same as not having some self interest. Obviously you do. Everyone here is tremendously interested in the welfare of their children. And therefore that does lead to a lot of community involvement, which can also lead to a lot of community stresses because you have different viewpoints and different needs that people bring to the table. But people by and large are willing to share them in a thoughtful, rational way. We have some very civic minded people who have continued to serve the community. They’ve moved from school board to being on city council. Our current mayor, Earl Leiken, was on the school board at the same time I was. He then served on city council for a while and now he is mayor and just tremendously dedicated to helping the city through very difficult financial times right now. And I do very much appreciate the kinds of sacrifices and dedication these people have. That’s very much typical of Shaker.
Gabriella Halligan-Taylor [00:40:15] Thank you so much.
Barbara Gray [00:40:15] [recording restarts abruptly] And Cleveland Heights. And so a group of civic, mostly women, some in Cleveland Heights, some in Shaker Heights, some of course, self-interest, they lived right along that corridor. But others just were concerned about the community, fought that and got it changed and turned it into a designated park area so that it could not be built upon. And so that’s just a wonderful resource for the community too. So I think people have tried to make the best use of an area where people’s recreational habits have changed over the years. And so when you’re limited by your geography, you’d make the best use of the resources that you have. And I think Shaker has done that.
Gabriella Halligan-Taylor [00:41:10] And the highway, wasn’t that the Clark Freeway?
Barbara Gray [00:41:10] Clark Freeway, you’re right, which was today, would be the extension of I-490, I think it is, which now ends at East 55th Street downtown. And so this was a great plan to take it all the way out to Pepper Pike, which is where Albert Porter lived, of course, and it would have been a nice, easy commute for him.
Gabriella Halligan-Taylor [00:41:38] Right, a highway so it’s just a straight shot.
Barbara Gray [00:41:40] One of the difficulties in a community like Shaker is trying to give people driving direction because of the windy roads and the crazy intersections. Sometimes there are four or five roads that come together in intersection. And people who are used to hopping on a freeway and hopping off a block from their home come to Shaker, Shaker, Cleveland Heights and the eastern suburbs anyway, and they realized, you know, but there’s no interstate to get there. But that’s kind of the way we like it. So it is a little tricky. But, you know, we go to the symphony, and we get out of the symphony and we’re home in 15 minutes. There aren’t many cities where you can do that and go to the theater downtown, 30 minutes, an easy commute. So a lot of benefits to being in the Cleveland area, especially to live in Shaker Heights. Yeah, it’s really a hidden gem. We had one son who lived in Boston for a while. He came back to Cleveland, established his own business here, and raising a family in Cleveland Heights. And people realize it’s a good place to raise a family. It’s much more exciting as a young person to go to Boston or New York or West coast or something. But if you want to raise a family, Cleveland’s a good place to be.
Gabriella Halligan-Taylor [00:43:17] There’s still a lot of things to do in Cleveland.
Barbara Gray [00:43:22] Oh, they really are, wonderful theater options. You like theater? Museums are terrific. If they ever finish the art museum. It’s been a lengthy process. Yeah. Well, anything else for me? Okay.
Creative Commons License
This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 License.
