Abstract

Carol Malone talks to a high school class about her past and present experiences as a Cleveland resident. The interview is more of a question and answer session with Malone and the students. Along with the students asking questions, Malone also gives them advice that she followed which helped her have a successful school career.

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Interviewee

Malone, Carol (Interviewee)

Interviewer

Lanese, Jim (Interviewer);Jane Addams High School Students (interviewer)

Project

Cedar Central

Date

2-25-2013

Document Type

Oral History

Duration

54 minutes

Transcript

Student [00:00:08] For the record, can you please state where you're born?

Carol Malone [00:00:12] My name is Carol Malone, and I was born in Cleveland, Ohio.

Student [00:00:15] How was it back in your day?

Carol Malone [00:00:18] Well, I was born in 1955, and I was born in a Glenville neighborhood. But as far as my history to the Cedar-Central neighborhood, it goes to my parents and my aunts and my uncles. They came from Alabama in the 1920s, really, my family joined- My uncle joined Antioch Baptist Church in 1922. Then my dad would come here in the thirties. He used to tell me he came in 1933 to make money to send back home to his family in Birmingham, and then married my mother in 1941 and they came here and lived on Golden Avenue off 79th.

Student [00:00:53] What about you? Are you married?

Carol Malone [00:00:55] No, I am not married.

Student [00:00:58] How is this neighborhood like when you moved here?

Carol Malone [00:01:03] Well, when I was a little girl, my father had a friend named Mister John Roberts. Mister John Roberts owned the first Schwinn bicycle dealership owned by an African American in the state of Ohio. And his bicycle shop used to be on Cedar just before 79th. It was Mr. Roberts Bicycle Shop. It was a bicycle shop and a car wash. So when I was a little girl, I would go there and get my tricycles. My dad would stand around and talk with his friend Mr. Roberts. But they all came from Birmingham, Alabama, together to the Central neighborhood. But you asked me about the sights and the sounds. I can remember very busy, lots of businesses, lots of stores. My uncle had a cleaners on Cedar called Bell's Cleaners. One of the restaurants that I remember that stood out, everybody went to Art's Seafood, and I actually went to school with his grandchildren. You were going to ask me something else.

Student [00:02:08] What kind of work did you do while you were here? Did you work anywhere?

Carol Malone [00:02:11] I mean, when I was. Well. Well, now I'm working with this project. I'm hopefully working with you guys again, and I'm lining up people to be interviewed for the Cedar-Central oral history project. So I've gotten in touch with a lot of folks who want to talk and tell their stories.

Student [00:02:30] Did you do anything while you were young?

Carol Malone [00:02:34] Yes, when I was younger. [laughs] Jeez. Well, when I first came out of school, I worked as a substitute teacher. So back in the eighties, actually, I used to come to this school a lot as a substitute teacher.

Student [00:02:46] What other schools did you substitute at?

Carol Malone [00:02:49] I subbed at Mary B. Martin for a long time. Patrick Henry. I used to go to Collinwood a lot as a substitute teacher.

Student [00:03:01] How was it like? How was the environment?

Carol Malone [00:03:05] Well, I like the environment, you know, sometimes with anything, you can have the, the difficult parts and the good parts. But as I was saying to Ms. White this morning, for students, you have to remember that's. And my daughter has graduated from honors with honors at East Tech High School. She's now a freshman at Cleveland State University. So I used to tell my daughter when she was younger, very little, that you remember that school is your job and your paycheck is a report card. So from kindergarten to 12th grade, this is the most important job that you will ever have because it is the foundation for everything else that you will go on and do in life. So school is your job, your paycheck is your report card. [laughs]

Student [00:03:44] Do you have any memories, like childhood memories from back then?

Carol Malone [00:03:49] As a matter of fact, I do. On Central, there used to be a barber shop called Sonny's Barber Shop. Sonny was my father's barber. So every Saturday I would go shopping with my dad, and one of the first places that we would stop at would be the Woodland farmer's market on 40th and Woodland, there were farmer markets. It was a market, and you could come and buy your fruits and vegetables and groceries and things of that nature. But I remember my father used to always buy his eggs from an Amish gentleman that he bought eggs from, literally, literally for 40 years. And then, it's no longer there but where the, the Q Arena is, that used to be the East Side Market [Central Market], and there used to be a marketplace there. And you could go and buy fruits and vegetables. And actually, that was all cleared out to build the Q. I remember that every Saturday I would go there with my dad, and on Sundays we would go to church at Antioch, and then we would leave church and come around the corner to Olivet. Everybody know where Olivet Institutional Church is? Okay. It's right across the street from the Karamu House. And at that time, the minister was a gentleman named Reverend Hoover, who was very popular. And I can remember, speaking of sights and sounds, Antioch, we would be finished with service about noon and maybe about 1:00 or 2:00. Reverend Hoover was just getting started good. [laughs] So I can just remember, we would leave Antioch, drive around the corner, and there would be lots of cars, lots of traffic, because Reverend Hoover, he was just getting revved up good at 2:00 while other churches were letting out.

Student [00:05:38] Well, what was your favorite color and what did it remind you of?

Carol Malone [00:05:42] My favorite color? That's a very interesting question. Actually my favorite color is actually rose or like an antique rose. And you know what? Probably my grandmother, because she loved flowers. And even though I know that gardenias, I don't think they come in rose color, but it would remind me of my grandmother.

Student [00:06:06] Well, does anybody have any questions? Have you ever been out of state or out of city of Cleveland?

Carol Malone [00:06:28] Yes, I have been out of state. When I was younger, we would travel back and forth to Birmingham, Alabama, where my grandmother's from. And then when I went away to college, I went to school in Boston. I graduated from Boston University, graduated from Shaker Heights High School, and I graduated from Boston University. And I went to school originally to be a city planner and urban designer. And then in 1976, I studied in eight countries. I studied in- I went to all of the Netherlands, Amsterdam, Rotterdam. I went to Paris. I went to London. I went to all of Yugoslavia, which has now been kind of broken up, but it was. Went to Ljibljana, Mosta, Sarajevo, Dubrovnik, Split, Yugoslavia. I went to Bern, Switzerland, went to Milan, Italy. So, yes, I highly suggest that you travel. And I went through school, and I got 20 credits to do it, too. Yes.

Student [00:07:24] What was your favorite part of traveling?

Carol Malone [00:07:27] I was 20 years old at the time, and I had my 21st birthday in a city called Dubrovnik, Yugoslavia. Give me the question again. I'm sorry.

Student [00:07:38] What was your favorite part of traveling?

Carol Malone [00:07:40] Just to meet people, to see new places, new people, new things. Just open yourself up to new experiences. That was the most exciting part. Being able to see what was coming next, being excited about what I was going to see. Yes.

Student [00:07:54] Have you ever went out of the state with your family, something that you could really like remember or cherish?

Carol Malone [00:08:04] Oh, yeah, absolutely. My mother was involved. My mother and father were very involved in the community clubs and organizations, and my mother was a part of a historical organization called Tots and Teens. Tots and Teens was founded in the 1950s because at that time, in the forties and fifties, you know, we still had laws that were restrictive. We had Jim Crow laws. We had segregation laws. You had colored- I'm old enough. I'm 57 years old and old enough to remember colored signs and white signs. It's not something I read about in a book. It's not something that I heard about in a conversation. It's something that I actively experienced myself. Yes.

Student [00:08:45] What is your most favorite part of like- What is your most favorite thing of doing this?

Carol Malone [00:08:53] The most favorite thing about doing this is meeting you all, because, like I said, we're making history doing this for the first time. With regards to the Cedar-Central Historical project, Cleveland State has been collecting narratives for quite a long time. But this is historic. And so to be able to meet you guys, to share this with you, so that you'll go on and continue to ask questions in your own family, ask questions in your own community, ask your friends, be aware of history and record it, because there is a saying that if you don't know where you're going, if you don't know where you've been, you won't know where you're going. People who do not know their history may be doomed to repeat it again. So history is major. It's key, it's important. Yes, ma'am.

Student [00:09:36] You talked about that you traveled across the country, right?

Carol Malone [00:09:40] Yes.

Student [00:09:40] What was your favorite place to visit?

Carol Malone [00:09:43] Let's see. Well, I've lived in Florida. I lived in Boston, I lived in California. I've been to Chicago, New York, DC. I spent every summer just about of my life in Birmingham, Alabama. I'd have to say maybe I'm a warm weather person. So I did like, when I lived in Florida, it was like being on vacation every day. Yeah.

Student [00:10:02] As a child, what was your favorite place to go?

Carol Malone [00:10:06] As a child, what was my favorite place to go? Okay. Well, the first thing that pops into my head is an amusement park here in Cleveland that no longer exists. And that's Euclid Beach Park. You guys don't know anything about Euclid Beach. It was over on Lakeshore Boulevard, about 156- [152nd] and Lakeshore Boulevard. There's a plaza over there, if you guys are familiar with it. Well, across the street there's these arches. And you may not even know in this apartment building, that used to be Euclid Beach Park. And it was a free amusement park here in Cleveland. So I used to, whenever my father, if I come around that curve and I saw the lights, I was always very excited about Euclid Beach Park. And you just don't find an amusement park in an urban environment anymore. It had been there for over 100 years. Yes.

Student [00:10:56] What was your favorite moment as a child?

Carol Malone [00:10:58] Was my favorite moment as a child? That is a very profound question. My favorite moment as a child. Wow. Yeah. Well, let me see. [laughs] Okay. Well, it's really funny now that you're an adult, it goes so fast. But as a kid, I was always excited when it came around to Thanksgiving break, Christmas break, because we would always have the Thanksgiving show in elementary school, the Christmas show. And then you knew it was going to be a Christmas holiday. So that used to be very exciting for me. Even now that I'm older, it seems so long when you're a little kid. But now that I'm older, it seems very short when you get on holiday. Yes.

Student [00:11:51] Did we discuss, like, what school did you go to when you were, like, our age?

Carol Malone [00:11:57] No.

Student [00:12:00] The elementary school?

Carol Malone [00:12:01] Okay. Well, I started out, well, as I stated, my parents married in 1941, and they lived on Golden Avenue off of 79th. Then my parents moved to the Glenville neighborhood. As African Americans began to move from the Central neighborhood, they began to move to Mount Pleasant, to the Hough neighborhood, to the Glenville neighborhood. So my parents moved to 90. We lived at 9507 Empire Avenue, and that was 19- They moved there in 1947. I was born in '55. I entered afternoon kindergarten at Miles Standish Elementary School, which I definitely believe is closed now. And we lived on Empire. And I did kindergarten at miles Standish. And then Shaker Heights desegregated about 1956-1957. And my parents bought a house in Shaker in 1960. And you guys know what the desegregation means? Okay. Desegregation means is that this country practiced what was called segregation, keeping people separated by race or keeping people separated by class, or a combination of both. So Shaker decided to voluntarily desegregate in 1960s without a federal court order. So my parents bought a house in Shaker in 1960, and we moved into the Ludlow district. The Ludlow district is a historic district. L u d l o w for spelling, the Ludlow district. And it voluntarily desegregated in the late fifties, 1960s. So I went to Ludlow Elementary School from, like, 1960 to 1968. Then I went to Woodbury, got to Woodbury Junior High School in 1968, which is now a middle school, Woodbury Middle School for fifth and 6th graders. And then I went on to Shaker Heights High School and graduated in 1974. Then I went from there to Boston University.

Student [00:13:57} What were your memories in high school? Do you remember anything that happened?

Carol Malone [00:14:02] Oh, yeah. There was so much going on then, because you had the Civil Rights movement going on. You had the women's movement going on. You had the Vietnam War era going on. There was a whole lot going on in the sixties and the seventies. I can remember that Shaker was a very- I actually, I had fun going to school, and junior high, I can- During my elementary school years, it was really a very college prep, because I can remember in elementary school, I had to turn and type term papers with footnotes and three by five index cards. That's 6th grade, 5th and 6th grade, and then my 7th. And during middle school, we had a lot of activities available to us, everything from lapidary. I don't even know if they have lapidary in the Cleveland public school system. But it's create the making of jewelry with stones and the cutting machines and stuff like that. And typing classes. We had noon rec. We used to have the noon movie. Things are so different for you guys now. We would go to the movie, we would go down to the rec and we could dance or we could go outside and hang out. Junior high school we had, when I was in high school, we had a- Oh my gosh, we had a jukebox in our cafeteria. We had a jukebox in our cafeteria. We had card tables, we had open study halls. It was kind of a different time period. Yes, ma'am.

Student [00:15:32] Have you ever experienced segregation on your own?

Carol Malone [00:15:35] Oh, absolutely. Oh, absolutely. In terms of deseg- Yeah, I mean, I've been called n-----. I've been spit on. I have been told to- This was when I was twelve years old. We were going down to- I was spit on and called n----- right here in Cleveland. I was called n----- when I was in Boston, at Boston University. My parents are from Birmingham, Alabama. And so my parents raised me in a certain way in terms of how to carry myself and believing in myself. That kind of attitude existed. It still exists now. But you have to make up your mind in terms of how you're going to allow it to affect you. I have this little saying is that you have to choose how you respond to the stimuli. So you can either choose to respond in an intelligent manner or you can choose to not respond at all. And I always say that no response is a response. So you don't always have to open up your mouth and say something. Sometimes silence speaks volumes. So when people want to say something nasty to you or call you a name, you don't have to react. Not reacting is a reaction. Looking at them, smiling, and keeping moving.

Student [00:16:56] Do you think there's still a lot of racism going on now?

Carol Malone [00:16:59] Yes. The only difference is, is that the time period when I was growing up, when my parents were growing up, your grandparents, aunts and uncles who were much older, it was much more overt. Okay? Because you had a society that made that seem it was okay. But yes, it does exist. It's maybe under the cover but it's still there.

Student [00:17:18] Do you still feel weird sometimes when you go places?

Carol Malone [00:17:22] No, I don't. I don't feel uncomfortable. Sometimes you can read the faces of other people who may not be comfortable with your presence, but if you're comfortable with yourself, that's all that really matters, is that you're comfortable and confident with you. That's all that matters. That speaks volumes.

Unknown Speaker [00:17:40] May I interject?

Carol Malone [00:17:41] Yes, ma'am.

Unknown Speaker [00:17:42] I wasn't here for the whole interview, but you talked about Birmingham?

Carol Malone [00:17:45] Yes, ma'am.

Unknown Speaker [00:17:47] Okay. Now, how did you all get into this neighborhood from there?

Carol Malone [00:17:52] Okay.

Unknown Speaker [00:17:53] What happened to what brought you here?

Carol Malone [00:17:55] Well, there, it's called the Great Migration, the period of the twenties and thirties and forties when many people were coming up here from the South for the jobs. Well, definitely trying to escape Jim Crow segregation and the whole repressive, you know, segregation of the South. And that's why my parents came up here. The Great Mi- Jobs. People coming here from Chicago, going to Detroit, coming to Cleveland, going to Akron, Youngstown, coming up here for jobs. So that's basically- That's really why my father came up here, because he knew that he was not. My father was bright. My dad went to college when he was 16 years old, graduated, 16 in 1936, graduated the age of 18 in 1939. So, I mean, he knew that- [laughs] And he was outspoken. So being in Birmingham was not going to- It was going to, you know, it was going to hinder his growth. So he knew he had to get out of Birmingham and come to Cleveland. So he came here, married my mom in 1941, came back here and lived on Golden Avenue. He got a job with the Ohio Bureau of Employment Services. My mother actually graduated from her mother's school in Birmingham, which was called the Leona Cartwright School of Beauty. My grandmother was a friend and protege of Madam C.J. Walker. I don't know if you guys know who she was. Madame C.J. Walker was the first woman millionaire in the United States. She was an African American woman. She was the first woman millionaire. And you can find books on her now. So that's how we came to Cleveland. And there is a book that you should get, or at least peruse. It's called The Warmth of other Suns, and it's about the Great Migration. The woman who wrote the book is a professor at Boston University, and she was here. She spoke last year at Tri-C. The Warmth of Other Suns.

Student [00:19:37] The Warmth of Other Suns?

Carol Malone [00:19:38] Yeah. The Warmth of Other Suns, yes.

Student [00:19:42] In the past, like, where did you go to the movies to see movies? [inaudible]

Carol Malone [00:19:48] That's a good question. Okay. Well, my earliest recollections of a movie theater was when we lived in the Glenville neighborhood, you know, on the east- There were neighborhood movie theaters all over the city of Cleveland. Many on the east side had been torn down. One of the movie theaters that on the east side that I would go to was the Liberty Theater on 105th and Superior. And I was five years old, and I saw Walt Disney's The Shaggy Dog starring Fred McMurray. I'm really dating myself. [laughs] I'm really dating myself! So the Liberty Theater is no longer there. Actually, a low-income apartment building sits there now. When my parents moved to Shaker, right on the corner of Lee Road and Chagrin Boulevard was a theater called the Shaker Theater. And we used to go there. And it's really funny, you don't even think about kids doing this today because some parents were like, what, all day long? But we would go to the movie theater at noon and literally be there till like 7, 7:30 in the evening. Because back then they used to do double features. So you could come in and you could, you know, see the movie and see another movie and then stay and see the movie all day long. So that's what we used to do. We'd go to Shaker Theater or maybe the Colony. But kids used to hang out at the Shaker Theater. Yes, ma'am.

Student [00:21:06] [inaudible]

Carol Malone [00:21:10] Oh, wow. And when I was in afternoon kindergarten, 1960, going into Ludlow, my father gave me two pieces of advice. I was five years old. Never forgot this. One, he said, learn how to throw paper because people like to throw paper. I said, daddy, what do you mean by that? He said, document. Learn how to document everything. Just like you're taking notes now? Always take notes. Always have a pen and paper with you. Always have a date book. Always have an appointment book. Always. The second piece of advice my father gave me was never let anybody think that they have something that you want so bad that you are willing to do anything to get it. Did you get that? Okay? Never let anybody think that there's something that you want so bad that you're willing to do anything to get it. And always remember to document it.

Student [00:22:19] During your child years, like, what type of music did you listen to?

Carol Malone [00:22:24] Oh, wow. Okay. There was a lot going on. I had an older brother who has passed away now, so. And it was really funny. I was exposed to my parents' music. Cause I was born in '55 so I was listening to jazz, you know, from my parents' era. And then my brother was born in '43. I was listening to his music in the early days of rock and roll. And then I came along in '55. And then there's the, you know, the rock and roll coming into the Motown period and then coming into the early sixties music and the Beatles and what have you. So it was kind of eclectic. Everything from Jimmy Smith's The Sermon, which was my parents', which is classic jazz, to Johnny Mathis, you know, to, you guys know, Patti LaBelle. But she used to be called Patti LaBelle and the Bluebells on up to the Beatles, you know, Sly and the Family Stone, you know, so James Brown, the Four Tops. So just a whole bunch of everything? Yes, dear.

Student [00:23:29] So basically, like, all the stuff in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, that's what you listened to?

Carol Malone [00:23:33] Pretty much. [laughs] Yes, dear.

Student [00:23:40] So the music that you listened to back then, do you still listen to it now?

Carol Malone [00:23:46] Yeah, and basically, and you all do, too, because everything just samples itself, repeats itself. I mean, I can remember when rap first hit. And actually, rap is not new because there was a singer in the forties named King Pleasure. Okay, this is a little homework for you. All right? His name was King Pleasure. King Pleasure was known as a talker, but actually, you could have called him a rapper because rapping goes all the way back to the plantation. But King Pleasure is somebody that you all can actually pull up and listen to. And he did a tune called Moody's Mood, and it's really a rap, if you will.

Student [00:24:22] What did he rap about?

Carol Malone [00:24:23] Well, I'll let you do the homework. I'll let you research it. I'll let you find out. [laughs] Yes.

Student [00:24:28] Now, now, in the neighborhood that you live in, do you hear, like, any gang violence and stuff like that?

Carol Malone [00:24:38] Yes, as a matter of fact, I, kind of have a saga and journey. Like many Americans, I grew up in Shaker, uh, took care of my mom. My father and my brother are deceased. My mother just passed away three years ago. So I'm kind of like, called the sandwich generation. Like a lot of folks, you know, went through the foreclosure. We had the foreclosure, lost our home in the foreclosure. So I've kind of been on this journey and which brought me to back to the Central neighborhood in 2009, moved in Outhwaite housing estate. So I lived at Outhwaite for a year. I lived on 70th and between Cedar and Central for two years. And mind you, on the corner of 71st and Central is an empty building which actually used to be my parents' restaurant in the 1960s, it was called Effie's Cafe. Give me the question again.

Student [00:25:27] Oh, no, I just asked- I said do you have a lot of [inaudible]?

Carol Malone [00:25:35] Yeah. Yes. Okay. So keep me on track. So when I moved in August, back to South Moreland, right around the corner from where I grew up at, when I lived in central neighborhood, yes, I experienced and I saw it, but I saw things changing just all over in various communities, like the late seventies, early eighties, and, you know, the drugs and gang violence. When I moved over on South Moreland, yeah, I did, as a matter of fact, I did call the police, and I had some young men who were living in my building. Unfortunately, they were arrested because they were you know, doing things they weren't supposed to be doing and shooting off guns. So yes, it is something I have seen some, experienced, and I'm one of those people if I see something, I'm gonna call and report it. Yes, sir.

Student [00:26:24] Were there any clubs or anything that you went to?

Carol Malone [00:26:27] Clubs as a child?

Student [00:26:29] Like as a teenager, or like, you know, college life? Any places? Like where would you-?

Carol Malone [00:26:34] Okay, well, I will tell you, I briefly mentioned an organization called Tots and Teens. Okay? These are historical organizations, Tots and Teens. There's an organization called Jack and Jill. These are two social organizations that were started in the late forties, fifties, because as I stated before, people of color were restricted for where they could go. So these organizations were founded so that you could go together and go to places as a group. So in Tots and Teens, we used to meet every Saturday at Fairfax. As a matter of fact, I recently found some pictures in an old newspaper. I should have brought them in. And we would meet at Fairfax and we had different teen groups and we would go to plays, swim parties, we would have cookouts, we would go on picnics and things, horseback riding, hay rides, things of that nature.

Student [00:27:19] I just have a quick question.

Carol Malone [00:27:22] Yeah.

Student [00:27:23] Have you had any other siblings that you really connected with?

Carol Malone [00:27:28] Any other siblings? Well, actually my brother, who's passed away now - he was 13 years older than me - but we used to do things together. But I had a lot of friends that I would hang out with.

Student [00:27:43] Where did you do your shopping mostly?

Carol Malone [00:27:46] Oh, well, back then we would go downtown Cleveland. Everybody would go downtown. I mean, there wasn't, you know, there weren't the shopping malls that you would go to. There weren't the shopping malls. You would go down, you would shop at May Company, you would shop at Higbee's, Woolworths, McCrory's downtown, Sterling-Lindner building. The Sterling-Lindner store. Sterling-Lindner's was famous because the way it was designed on the inside, you would go in and it was designed on levels so that you could visually see the levels. And so they were famous for their Christmas tree, the Sterling-Lindner Christmas tree. You could go in and see this beautiful Christmas tree. Yes, dear.

Student [00:28:28] Now, did you say that you used to be a substitute here?

Carol Malone [00:28:31] Yes, I used to come here and sub in the eighties.

Student [00:28:34] How did you like it here?

Carol Malone [00:28:35] I liked it. I subbed for the Cleveland public school system for eleven years. I liked it. Yes, dear.

Student [00:28:43] Have you ever went to Tower City downtown?

Carol Malone [00:28:45] Yes. Well, I remember when Tower City was actually the train station. [laughs] Okay, it was a train station. The trains used to pass underneath Tower City. You can go and get on a train and so my brother was- My brother was in the military. So when he was headed back to basic, going back for basic training, they were going to ship him out to Hawaii and then they shipped him to Vietnam. So back in the day, you caught the train there. Yes, sir.

Student [00:29:12] Do you remember when RTA first came on?

Carol Malone [00:29:15] Yes. Because actually, RTA was originally CTS. It was the Cleveland Transit System. It used to be the Shaker Rapid, Shaker Transit System and the Cleveland Transit System, and they combined them to create the Regional Transit Authority. But when we- Oh, my gosh, am I really that old now? I guess I am. We would ride down. We could catch the rapid at Shaker Square and ride downtown for ten cents. Cannot do that now. Yes, dear.

Student [00:29:47] Did you say that you used to sub here?

Carol Malone [00:29:48] Yes.

Student [00:29:50] How much has it changed? How much do you see that's changed ever since you subbed?

Carol Malone [00:29:57] Well, I always liked this school. I mean, it hasn't really changed that much to me. I was just telling Ms. White this morning, I would love to, I'd love to eat at the culinary restaurant that you had downstairs. And she told me that you guys still have the restaurant, you know, and the food is very good. So I always liked the environment here. I tried to. Actually tried to get my daughter enrolled here, but I got enrolled at East Tech, but it's pretty much the same.

Unknown Speaker [00:30:20] Here's the menu for this week.

Student [00:30:25] The other schools that you subbed in, did they have any culinary [inaudible]?

Carol Malone [00:30:32] Well, Collinwood did not. I spent a lot of time at Collinwood. I just did sub a little bit at South High. You know, they had the beauty school over there. I don't know if the cosmetology school still exists in the Cleveland public school system. I know that it was at South High School. Yes, sir.

Student [00:30:50] Who was your favorite person or idol, like, when you were growing up?

Carol Malone [00:30:54] Favorite person or idol? I'm gonna tell you guys a quick history. Some quick little historical stuff. Okay. Real quick story. My mother told me. She said, one of my girlfriends is coming in town. I want you to go pick her up. I'm like, okay. Because my mother was involved in a lot of stuff. She says, now I want you to pick her up. I don't want you to be late. I said, okay. And she says, you know, because, you know, Rosa is staying at her nephew's house. I said, Rosa who? She said, Rosa Parks. I said, well, okay. She and my mother were friends and they would talk all the time on the phone. They were in this club together. So the club was- Top Ladies of Distinction was one club and another one was the National Negro Business and Women's Professional Association. So the first time, her nephew lived at the corner of Ashby and Milverton. So as you can see, I kind of like to talk. [laughs] So the first time I had to pick her up, I really couldn't talk. I was just really kind of in awe. Petite lady. She had really long braids. And as I stood there, watched her wrap her braids around her head to get ready, and it was just me and her in the car. So I was like, okay, I'm keeping my hands attending to a clock. This is like the mother of the Civil Rights movement. [laughs] I gotta get her, take her to the Warrensville Heights Public Library. Got her there. The next year, my mother said, Carol, Rosa's coming. I want you to pick her up again. I was like, oh, my gosh. Okay, I gotta talk this time. So. And I wish I- And I- Next time I come in, I can bring you pictures of me and her and my mom, the ladies and stuff. So I got her in the car and I said, Ms. Parks, I said, you know, last time I met you, I said, I was really in awe and I really couldn't talk. I said, but I want to ask you about that day, as many other people have asked you about that day. So she told me, she said, well, honey, you know, people thought it was planned. She said, it was not planned. She said, we, she wasn't acting. You know, people thought I was just tired. She said, but this is something we had been planning all along. Because one month before, she had decided that she was not going to give up her seat. A 16-year-old young black woman did do it in Birmingham, but her parents were afraid of moving forward with litigation because of the bombings, because of the threats. So that's my Rosa Parks story. Yes, ma'am.

Student [00:33:21] What was the most popular restaurant that you went to?

Carol Malone [00:33:26] Here in Cleveland? Well. Well, I can tell you, but here in Cleveland, back in the day, everybody went to the Forum downtown. The forum is completely long gone. It was on East 9th Street. The Forum was a cafeteria style restaurant, which was, you know, no matter what you had in your pocket, you know, you could still go in the Forum and get something to eat. And I would always go in and get fried chicken, mashed potatoes and gravy [laughs], you know, and maybe some corn, a roll and butter, and always a piece of cheesecake. When my mom and I would go downtown, Woolworth's always had fabulous vegetable soup and cheesecake. I used to like to go there.

Student [00:34:12] What were your best childhood memories? Like recollections of the neighborhood from your childhood to your teenage life into like now?

Carol Malone [00:34:22] Okay. Well, as a little girl on Empire, I really liked, I would play with my friends, the tallies. As a matter of fact, Mr. Talley still lives in this house. He's probably one of the few people that's still on Empire. Now, when we moved to the Ludlow area, the Shaker school system had something at that time called Play School. Well, your parents - unheard of price now - your parents paid $5.50 a week for you to go to summer camp. $5.50 a week. And you went from 8:00 in the morning to 4:00 in the afternoon. You carried your lunch. You got art and activities, field trips, swimming, games. Actually, the program went from- I entered maybe first or second grade and went straight through to high school. And that's actually where I took up riflery. Shaker used to have a riflery range.

Student [00:35:25] Have you ever attended plays as a teenager?

Carol Malone [00:35:28] Yes, we used to go. Part of the things we used to do with Tots and Teens is we went to a lot of plays at the Karamu House. You guys know about the Karamu House? It's founded by Rowena Jelliffe and her husband. Actually, they're a white couple that founded the Karamu. A lot of people don't know that. And Ms. Jelliffe, I think she lived till she was about 102 or 103 or something like that. So we'd go to Karamu all the time.

Student [00:35:54] That's old. That's older than I thought.

Carol Malone [00:35:56] Yeah, Karamu- Actually, Karamu was the first integrated theatrical performance facility in the United States. So Karamu is a lot of history. If you haven't been over there, go check it out.

Student [00:36:07] Did you ever have a special friend or a best friend?

Carol Malone [00:36:10] Quite a few still do now. Yeah.

Student [00:36:16] Do you still know some of them?

Carol Malone [00:36:17] Oh, yeah. I still know people I've known since afternoon kindergarten. Yeah, I sure do.

Student [00:36:24] As a teenager, did you ever go to parties or anything like that?

Carol Malone 00:36:28] Yeah. I mean, that's the thing that I feel bad now for you guys because there's like so much gun violence, you know, when kids get together for just stupid stuff? But when we were kids, we would have house parties. I don't know if you all still do that now. We would have house parties. You know, you break out your 45s. Now, you all break out your iPads, iPods. But, you know, we'd have our 45s, you know, the blue lights in the basement, you know, your punch and what have you, and do house parties. Or we would go to- I remember at Plymouth Church, we used to have canteens. They would call them canteens on Fridays where we could go from 6:30 to 08:00 and pay twenty-five cents to get in. Yeah.

Student [00:37:08] What's the difference between parties from now and then?

Carol Malone [00:37:11] I think the difference for parties now and then is the level of safety. I really, I think that's, I think that's what your parents worry about. I know my daughter's 18. She's in college. I still call her. So, I mean, that's what you worry about now. She's going to college parties, which is a different, you know, a different level of engagement and of involvement. So I think that's, that's the only difference here, is safety. Yes.

Student [00:37:36] I used to hear about how gas prices used to be a quarter.

Carol Malone [00:37:40] Yes, they were. Twenty-five cents a gallon.

Student [00:37:44] So, were y'all making a big fuss about gas prices being a quarter?

Carol Malone [00:37:49] No. Well, I mean, well, for, well, I would, I would say yes and no, 'cause, from my parents' perspective, you know. Yeah. Because they were always watching their pennies and counting their pennies. I can remember my father's story because, you know, kids used to always, you know, make fun of- Your parents would say, I walked a thousand miles to school, you know, but my father would talk about how you could buy, you know, a pound of bologna for five cents, you know. You know, or you could buy a pound of bologna for five cents, you know, buy a loaf of bread for five cents. But, and even that, even that, as my father talked about, and then that was, that was tight, too. You were really pinching your pennies just to have that. Five cents for a pound of bologna or five cents for a loaf of bread. Thank you. Yeah.

Student [00:38:32] So what else was cheap back then? What about cars?

Carol Malone [00:38:36] [laughs] Everything was cheaper. Everything. It was. Everything was cheaper back then. Absolutely everything. I mean, you stop. When I stop and think about my parents. My parents bought the house on Empire in 1941. They paid $6,000 for that house in 1941, which really was a lot of money for a young Black couple in 1941. 1947, rather. They bought the house in 1947 on Empire, and then they sold the house in 1960 to move to Shaker. They sold the house for 22,000. I can't even remember. I remember this stuff. They bought the house in Shaker for 25,000, sold a house in Glenville for 22,000. That was a lot of money. Yes.

Student [00:39:22] Like everything was cheap so how much would you say a car costed?

Carol Malone [00:39:28] Oh, back then? Oh, man. I would say, yeah. Yeah, that was a lot of money. $3,000 for a car. Yeah. That's a used car price now. That was a new car. Brand new.

Student [00:39:45] Just a comment. Well, cars nowadays be like 23,000 and all of that, but then it was 3,000- [inaudible]

Carol Malone [00:39:50] Yeah. But you know what? They're not as made as well today as they are then, because if you had an old car, you had a steel car. So if you had an old car from today versus a new car for today. And they crashed into each other, I guarantee you, the old car will barely be touched. [laughs] The new car would be in pieces. Yeah. The old cars were worth- They were steel cars.

Student [00:40:14] Was there any McDonald's then?

Carol Malone [00:40:17] McDonald's? Oh, honey. Fast food was unheard of. There were no restaurants. I remember. Oh, no. Now, you had your neighborhood- You had your neighborhood restaurants. I mean, back in the day, you had Scatter's. Scatter's. Write that down. Scatter's was a barbecue man. Scatter was famous in the Black neighborhood for his barbecue. You had Scatter's. You had, like I said, Art's Seafood. You had Scotty's, which was down on Cedar. Scotty's was. Scotty's was a joint where he- Every Thursday, you have all the fish and spaghetti, and it would be packed in there. Absolutely packed. You had, let's see, you had- Juanita's was a soul food restaurant. And that was in the Carnegie Hotel. Juanita's was in the Carnegie Hotel, which is torn down now on Carnegie. And actually, Carnegie Hotel and the Lancer's were really the meeting places for the Civil Rights movement. Martin Luther King came here all the time. One of his attorneys was a man named Mr. John Bustamante. Mr. Bustamante and his son and daughter, now, we all went to Boston University together. And I didn't know this about Mr. Bustamante myself until I went to his funeral three years ago. Mr. Bustamante was a giant, really. He came to Cleveland from Cuba, and he actually got hired by Cleveland Trust. He had graduated from Harvard and Boston University. And so Cleveland Trust really didn't know he was a Black man. So when he got here, they wouldn't give him the job. They hired him, not knowing that he was a Black man, based on his credentials. Once he got here, they literally would not give him the job. So he ended up working for mister- The funeral home that's closed up over there on 55th. Oh, man. Not Boyd Funeral. What was that? Funeral home over there. Yes. House of Wills. House of Wills, right. He was working for- He started working for Mr. Wills, and Mr. Bustamante went on to- He, Mr. Bustamante, Martin Luther King, and a man named Mr. Dargan Burns II - his son and I graduated from school together - they all went to Boston University together and they were Alphas. So you could probably go online and find a picture. As a matter of fact, they used the picture at the MLK celebration this year. And you asked me what? Bring me back to what I was saying. Didn't you ask me the last question? Wasn't it you? Who asked me the last question?

Student [00:42:37] What about fast food?

Carol Malone [00:42:39] Okay, okay. But I know, I digress. But anyway. But definitely write that name. Mr. John Bustamante is somebody you guys need to know about, because he. He was Martin Luther King's attorney and he lived here in the city of Cleveland. He did a lot of stuff here in Cleveland. I was just really amazed at how quietly he was behind the Civil Rights movement. He was Medgar Evers's attorney. He lived right here in Cleveland.

Student [00:43:02] Can you spell that?

Carol Malone [00:43:03] Bustamante. B u s t a m a n t e. Yes, ma'am.

Student [00:43:09] In your child life, did you go to any type of circuses or something?

Carol Malone [00:43:15] You mean the activities like. Did you say the circus? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Well, one thing, here in Cleveland. Oh, my gosh, I can't believe the Arena. You guys don't know. The arena is long since gone. The Cleveland Arena, it used to be down on Euclid between 30th, 40th. Yeah, 40th and Euclid. And Cleveland used to have a hockey team called the Cleveland Barons. I can't believe I remember that. Okay, the Cleveland Barons. So the Cleveland Arena is where we held everything. The Ice Capades, the circus used to come in town there. The Cleveland Barons used to play there. And I can remember for my 13th birthday, I went to see Smokey Robinson and the Miracles, the Drifters, and a couple other singers. Leon Isaac [Kennedy]. Leon Isaac [Kennedy] went on to be a movie star, but he used to be a disc jockey here in Cleveland. And guess how much the concert was? It was at Adele's. Linda White, Smokey Robinson, Miracles, couple other groups. The concert was $3.50. [laughs; crosstalk] Yeah, they are, they are, they are. I think they're kind of robbing people, too. Tickets are too expensive.

Student [00:44:28] Are you still a substitute or what year did you stop substituting?

Carol Malone [00:44:32] I stopped subbing about 1992. My daughter- No, I'm sorry, I stopped subbing in the '96-97 school year. My daughter was little then. I was caring for my mom, so I just kind of made my daughter and my mom my full-time job up until maybe three years ago. My mother passed away August 2009, got my daughter graduated from school, and so now I'm back here in the community volunteering my time, and I'm involved with a couple of things, just to let you know, I'm with an organization called Cleveland Connections, and I'm a grant maker. What that is, is that I sit on a committee with other citizens from around the city, and twice a year we review proposals of neighborhood folks like yourself. You don't have to be a 501(3)c, which that means you don't have to have a- You know, you don't have to have a nonprofit status. But we grant people's proposals from $500 to $5,000 twice a year, and it'll either be money that, you know, either ongoing money or a new entity. New idea. Yes, ma'am.

Student [00:45:38] The goals that you followed when you were a little kid, do you still follow them?

Carol Malone [00:45:43] Oh, absolutely. And that's a really good question. Like I said, going back to the two things, like I said, my father told me, you know, document everything and don't let anybody think that you want something so bad that you're willing to do anything for it. Oh, yeah. But as you grow and mature, you know, you fine-tune things, you tweak things along the way. But I always say, you know, silence is power. You know, sometimes you can say a whole lot to a person. You don't have to- I used to tell students all the time, I don't have to tell you all. You see, kids here in the hallway always think they got to say something back, don't they? And when I was a girl growing up, don't think girls didn't want to beat me up, but I was the type of girl where I would let you scream and holler at me, and I'd say, are you done now? And then I'd walk away. They're still standing there and I'm on my way to class. Okay? So, yeah.

Student [00:46:33] What was your favorite [inaudible]

Carol Malone [00:49:36] Oh, man, I love school. I really love school a lot. And I think when I look back on it, I love science. I was really good in science. I really, I really, had really, really good, really good science teachers. I really, really did. I liked it a lot. I wish I had gone into geology when I look back on it, but you know.

Student [00:47:00] How was your school district back then? [inaudible]

Carol Malone [00:47:05] Well, actually, to be honest with you, I take exception with that in terms of there's enough blame to go around for everybody. My mother retired from this system after teaching for 38 years, and many of my mother's peers were school- I grew up with a lot of teachers, a lot of principals, a lot of educators. You know, school is not an easy task, but at the same time, what's important is the person that's in front of you, if you have a dedicated person who really cares about your learning. But what's also important is you. Again, I go back to saying, school is your job. Your paycheck is your report card. You come to work every day, so you have to be prepared to come to your job and don't let people distract you from your job. So you have the power and ability to be proactive and get involved, too, to talk with your teachers, talk with your parents, talk with people in the community to share ideas. Because my daughter actually came from Cleveland Heights school system to East Tech, and because I am a very proactive parent, I was involved with a lot of things. I didn't go by that well, this is Cleveland Heights it's so fabulous. And Cleveland school system is not, all that. I never looked at it from that perspective. It was about who's in that classroom, what subject being taught, and what am I doing as a parent to be proactively involved with my child in school?

Student [00:48:29] Back then, was your house big like it is now?

Carol Malone [00:48:33] Actually, I live in an apartment now. [laughs] We had a- The house that we lived in in Glenville was a very comfortable home. Those houses probably in Glenville were probably built maybe in the 1920s, 1920s, 1930s. My parents bought and moved in in 1947. The house that I lived, grew up in, in Shaker was built in 1960s. Yeah, we bought, moved in 1960. So the house was probably built about '58, '59. So now I live in a two bedroom apartment, no grass to cut. [laughs]

Student [00:49:05] Is there anything that we haven't, like, you haven't figured out about you yet? Like, is there anything that you want to share that we didn't know yet?

Carol Malone [00:49:14] Yeah. Well, I do want to tell you. Read. Read everything. Acquaint yourself with everything. Read the newspaper. Watch the news. Become acquainted with the world. Not just Cleveland. Become acquainted with the world. Get to know other people. Contact the Council of World Affairs. Find out what they're doing. Get speakers in here. Read all the time. Equate yourself with what's going on in the world, current. Know your history, know other people's history. All those things are very, very important. And like I said, take notes. Write stuff down all the time. Learn to be detail-oriented. It will serve you well in the future, trust me. Yes.

Student [00:49:56] If you can give us girls a piece of advice that will help us through life, what would it be?

Carol Malone [00:50:07] Respect yourself. My grandmother used to have a saying, you know, when you grow up and you have folks from the South, you have a lot of little southern sayings that make no sense to you when you're young, okay? But if you live long enough, they make a lot of sense to you. When I was a little girl, and this is just not for the girls, this is for the guys, my grandmother used to say to me, love yourself, baby, because if you don't love yourself, nobody else will. So it starts with self love. Love yourself. Be true to yourself. Be honest with yourself. Watch people. There's another old saying. Watch what folks do and not what they say. If a person's conversation and their behavior don't match up, then maybe you should stay two steps back, check them out a little bit further. Yes, ma'am.

Student [00:50:55] Back then, for your birthday, did you have any birthday parties?

Carol Malone [00:50:59] Yes. [laughs] Oh, my gosh. You all are digging up all kind of memories. Down on Euclid- Down on 55th and Marginal used to be a Howard Johnson's restaurant. Okay, Howard Johnson's is. No, it was Howard Johnson's restaurant and hotel. Oh, my gosh. And it also used to be a Howard Johnson's right there on Euclid and MLK Drive in 105. I forgot. Used to be a Howard Johnson's hotel. That sat right- There's a PNC Bank right there. You know where John Hay High School is? The PNC Bank? That used to be a Howard Johnson's hotel. I can't even remember because the children's museum that's there, that was actually part of the hotel. So Howard Johnson's used to- You could have a free birthday party as a kid at Howard Johnson's. So I can remember going to birthday parties there at the Howard Johnson's over on Lakeshore, or the one on Euclid. They give you a little paper hat and. Yeah. Some ice creamy cake. Yeah.

Student [00:51:53] As a kid, what was, like, your favorite food or desserts, anything like that? Bringing back memories?

Carol Malone [00:51:59] Oh, well, you know, any African American family on the holidays is going to be collard greens, candied yams, you know, sweet potato pie, pound cake. You know, things that are- That I still traditionally eat around the holidays and still cook for myself.

Student [00:52:17] Does it bring back any memories when you taste that food?

Carol Malone [00:52:21] Comfort. Makes you happy, something that you feel comfortable, comforted by 'cause it's familiar.

Student [00:52:29] Did you have, like, for your 16th birthday, did you have, like, a big party or what?

Carol Malone [00:52:35] For my 16th birthday, I didn't have a party. But for my 16th birthday, which I still have. I still have. Oh, my gosh. The record player that my father bought me when I was 16 years old. My father gave me my own telephone. I had my own personal phone at home and my record player for my 16th birthday. And I still have my sweet 16 record player because it's so funny that you mentioned that. When my daughter was nine years old, she found my 45s in the attic. She said, Mommy, whose CDs are these? I said, baby, these are called 45s. These are not CDs. And then year before last, I realized that you guys really have never really heard a record player. Exactly. So I pulled out my old record player for her, and I pulled out some old 45s. And she pulled out, because I still have some of my Beatles records and my Motown records and everything, and we played them. So if you. That's another thing. You guys have not listened to a record or a 45. Find someone with a record player and listen to a record. Yes. Yes.

Student [00:53:40] [inaudible question about the Jackson 5 and Michael Jackson]

Carolyn Malone [00:53:45] Oh, honey. I still have my original Jackson 5 45s. Are you kidding me? [laughs] I still have mine.

Student [00:53:53] Are there any questions before we end?

Carol Malone [00:53:56] Yes, dear.

Student [00:53:57] [inaudible]

Carol Malone [00:53:59] No, that's a set. That's a- That's a 33 and a third. There's 78 records. Then there's the 33 albums where you would have, like, six, seven records on one side. Six. I can't believe that. This is an antique now! [laughs] Six or seven on one side. And then the 45 is a smaller record. So next time when I come in, I'll bring, you know, we have to, you know, find- And if you find a record player or something like that, really actually buy them now because they are collector's items. It's been an absolute pleasure talking to you. [crosstalk] I hope to see you again. You're welcome. Oh, I appreciate you. Thank you. [applause

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