Abstract
In this 2006 interview, 78 year old Lou Donitis aka Lou Donuts, a long-time resident of the Detroit-Shoreway area, talks about his life experiences in Cleveland from the time he first arrived here in 1950. He talks in great detail about the factories, retail shops, restaurants, theaters and bars that lined Detroit Avenue and other nearby streets in the 1950s. Mr. Donitis also talks about a number of the unskilled and semi-skilled jobs he held in Cleveland, including his work at the Forum Restaurant on E. 9th Street, and some of the "hot spots" of Cleveland in that era, including "Short Vincent," Euclid Avenue, and E. 105th and Euclid.
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Interviewee
Donitis, Lou (interviewee)
Interviewer
Souther, Mark (interviewer)
Project
Detroit Shoreway
Date
2-9-2006
Document Type
Oral History
Duration
51 minutes
Recommended Citation
"Lou Donitis interview, 09 February 2006" (2006). Cleveland Regional Oral History Collection. Interview 955017_999008.
https://engagedscholarship.csuohio.edu/crohc000/875
Transcript
Mark Souther [00:00:00] Yeah. Okay.
Lou Donitis [00:00:02] Okay. Go ahead. Go ahead.
Mark Souther [00:00:05] I’m interviewing. Can you state your name, please?
Lou Donitis [00:00:08] Oh, I gotta say it? Just my name as everybody knows it?
Mark Souther [00:00:15] The real name and the name everyone knows you.
Lou Donitis [00:00:16] Oh, you see the paper I give you, that’s it. We’ll go by that.
Mark Souther [00:00:21] Lou Donuts?
Lou Donitis [00:00:22] Yeah.
Mark Souther [00:00:22] What’s your real name?
Lou Donitis [00:00:24] Technically, it’s the name they give me in the orphanage, but my real name I don’t go by because they give me this name in the orphanage. D-O-N-I-T-I-S. Donitis. And they say Donuts. And I took this when I was- I didn’t take this legally. It’s my AKA, alias. But everybody wouldn’t- Anybody that knows me, Donuts. Who would know? If I put my name on it, they wouldn’t know who it was. So the councilman here, that’s the councilman there. You know him?
Mark Souther [00:00:57] I interviewed him.
Lou Donitis [00:00:58] And what did he say?
Mark Souther [00:01:01] He talked a lot about his family.
Lou Donitis [00:01:02] Yes, Well, I knew his father. His father was a prisoner of war in Germany.
Mark Souther [00:01:09] Michael Zone.?
Lou Donitis [00:01:10] Yeah, the older man. Not this one. And I remember him when he was a little baby. Well, anyway, in this one here, I was talking to Mr. Handy, chairman of the board of Charter Bank, at a table here in the hallway after they had a party here. And he come up and I was talking to the guy, that prints this, or editor, whatever you call it, this paper. Yes. And I was talking to him, and Mr. Handy’s over there eating, and Zone coming as I was talking. He put his arms around me and. And said, well, how you doing, Mayor? So I never told him I was mayor, he did. So they put that slogan and donuts and stuff in there. So I go by it. I didn’t want to correct it, because I kind of like that. But anybody who sees it, they know who I am if they’ve been around a while. I’ve been here since 1950.
Mark Souther [00:02:13] And you lived in orphanage in New York City before?
Lou Donitis [00:02:16] No, not New York. Westchester County. Peekskill, New York, up the Hudson.
Mark Souther [00:02:23] And then when did you live in Manhattan?
Lou Donitis [00:02:25] After I escaped from my foster mother, Mrs. O’Reilly, at 16, I got a job. Olson Brothers Roofing Company, First Avenue and 18th Street, New York City. And I also got drafted in the Army there in ’45, on Church Street, where the buildings come down, by the Fulton Fish Market.
Mark Souther [00:02:47] Where did you serve overseas?
Lou Donitis [00:02:48] Germany. Deutsche, Deutsche, Deutsche uber always. Zwei Kartoffeln uber Alles. That means just two potatoes over everything. I was a colonel’s assistant.
Mark Souther [00:03:02] When you returned, did you move to the Detroit neighborhood. Right here?
Lou Donitis [00:03:06] No. After I got out of the Army, I work at Chevrolet plant in New York. Tarrytown, New York. Olson Brothers Roofing Company, Safeway, before I got drafted. And then I traveled west. I took Horace Greeley’s advice, “Go west, young man.” I got as far as Cleveland and settled down here, you know, fell in love, you know. You don’t want to know about that stuff. You want to know about the history of this area, not about me. I’m unimportant.
Mark Souther [00:03:43] I wouldn’t say that.
Lou Donitis [00:03:44] Yes, because I don’t hold no elected office or taxpayer anymore.
Mark Souther [00:03:49] We’re trying to interview people who don’t just hold offices.
Lou Donitis [00:03:54] Yeah, I used to live on 67th Street for 38 years. Right next to the crippled guy. One house down and, make it short, I’m a senior citizen now. I live in this building upstairs. You want to know my age?
Mark Souther: Sure.
Lou Donitis: 78 and a half.
Mark Souther [00:04:22] What was the first memory you have of this arcade?
Lou Donitis [00:04:26] And when was it in this? I knew the owner, Mr. Tilley. Chief Mr. Tilley. T-I-L-L-E-Y. He was a Scotchman from Nova Scotia and come here to Cleveland and go to Case Western Reserve. And you know why he got big? He joined the Masons and he wound up owning this building. He was the chief potentate Mason in the state of Ohio at one time. I think he died. Well, I’d done some work for him. That’s how I knew him. I’m a painter. Eventually my trade was painting. Not a movie actor or, you know, this or that.
Mark Souther [00:05:15] What did the [Gordon Square] Arcade look like in 1950?
Lou Donitis [00:05:20] Better than now. There was. On the second floor was doctors and lawyers and dentists and offices and a secret, and Mr. Weatherhead had a secret thing for the Navy. Machines and stuff. Second floor was all doctors and lawyers. No, no, no lawyers. Chiropractor. I can’t think of his name. Italian name offhand. The two brothers was woman Doctors for babies Purdom. On the second floor, three or four dentists. And Dr. Perdue, I’d done some painting for him. And down the other end was the Executive Office 219. Down the other end was offices for like corporations and stuff. I never was in that part, you know, because I didn’t live in the building. Third floor was all sleeping rooms. Fancy from the twenties. Yeah, really.
Mark Souther [00:06:27] So in 1950 it was still apartments?
Lou Donitis [00:06:31] Basically it was sleeping rooms on the third floor. And then they got the grants from the governor so that converted them over to the apartments. Then the whole second floor eventually got converted over to apartments.
Mark Souther [00:06:44] It was really a hotel before that?
Lou Donitis [00:06:48] No, no, Just for local people that work downtown. It was high class. Just on the third floor. Now it’s all apartments. And my apartment on the second floor used to be a dentist’s office. In fact, he worked on my teeth. Dr. Menko. And here, when they give me the key to move in, I says, I know this place. I used to get my teeth. So where I got. Where the dentist chair is, I got my chair where I sit and do my crossroad puzzles in the morning.
Mark Souther [00:07:18] A lot more enjoyable, isn’t it?
Lou Donitis [00:07:20] Yes, it is. And yet you picked this career?
Mark Souther: Yes, yes.
Lou Donitis: And is it beneficial for you?
Mark Souther: Yeah.
Lout Donitis: I’m surprised. Too lame. Too bad. Okay, go ahead. What else? Now, about the building where we’re sitting here. Last thing was in here was an Oriental man. Had a window and door of aluminum. Factory making doors and windows, put it that way. Yeah.
Mark Souther [00:07:51] What else was on the first floor? Do you remember any other businesses?
Lou Donitis [00:07:54] Yes, yes. Here goes. Let me see. Was Arnold’s Restaurant, where the Puerto Rican place is. On the corner was a drugstore. I can’t think of the name of it. Cross street was Standard Drugstore. On this side was. It’s an English name.
Mark Souther [00:08:15] You mean across 65th from [inaudible]
Lou Donitis [00:08:19] That was the Standard Drugstore in the Kennedy Building. In the corner here where they got the tax in there. Hewlett Packard. That was a drugstore with a soda and pop where you take your girl in and you buy them malted banana shakes. Because we used to go to the theater and then I used to take my girl in there and we had like banana split malted. They don’t have that stuff no more. Now, Arnold’s restaurant was Italian guys that come up from Florida. And Arnold’s is not an Italian name with Arnold. And then the next. Where they’re. What’s that where you get wounded if the state helps you.
Mark Souther [00:09:09] Disability.
Lou Donitis [00:09:10] Yeah. What is it? Where you go in. They work on your back and stuff. Chiropractic. Yeah. Okay. But it’s the state. Like wounded people in factories and jobs and stuff. The state. State Border Company. I don’t know what it is. Well, Kreip doctor is a German guy, too. Now, that used to be a clothing store, cripe I used to buy my clothes there. Maury’s two Jewish guys. Let me forget their names.
Mark Souther [00:09:42] How did they spell their names?
Lou Donitis [00:09:43] I forget. I’m forgetting the name. Yeah. Maury was the guy’s first name. One was. You know, he never. You know. Now, the next place was oh, and where these dance people are now, that was five and dime store. The guy had, Meyer, he had 12 of them. They moved out and then the sisters was in there. Secondhand store. Now you’re coming up where you come in the entrance to go upstairs. That was a barber shop. My barber, Casanova. See, Remember Alzheimer’s? You know how you don’t get Alzheimer’s or. Stop it. I do a puzzle in the morning and don’t worry about nothing because my check is a pension. It’s a check for work and not welfare or SS9 or SS8. So I’m proud of what I did in my life coming out of an orphanage. I never took nothing off nobody. Army. I got drafted. Okay, Next place was where this lesbians and homosexuals are. That club, the Center. Yeah, that’s the next. They have options there. That was a grocery store where you go in and buy pop beer, more cigarettes and stuff like that. Now the next place where the insurance company is now and the next building over there where they have a community room. The bosses go in there and have coffee in a conference room. Both of them. That was state liquor store, state of Ohio. And on the end was banks all the time. And over here was this oriental guy making the thing in daydream room. The whole thing. No, this whole thing was a big, big. You know, it wasn’t all like cut up. Now. Now you go out. When you go out the back, the conference room, there was a man and wife. They done repaired shoes. Now next door, where Matt Hoofenbacher son got offers in the back and the lady Echo Village in the front, that was. No, that was where the shoe store was. And then going down where Mr. Marks isn’t in them, that was Mrs. Snyder had a beauty saloon for women and nuns and stuff. 49 years in there. How I remember that? I used to put my booking bets in there. You know, make my bets and she took the bets and then the bookie got em and then that’s it. Upstairs was, you know, that’s it. I never lived here until my senior year. 47, 74 years old. Then they had a choice. Where you want to go, Donuts? I want to go right up the street. You sure you want to go? Yes, I want to go. I’ve been here since 1950. Now, they had a lot of bars, this or that. You know where Zone’s got his thing there in the corner, that was the Avenue Bar. Next door was a guy from the Second War. Mr. Hutton. Had a grocery store where you cut up meat you he had a butcher name. And then over there by the Pioneer Bank next door, where it’s empty on the bottom, that was the Victory Bar. Italians. And then forget, you know. What was that? That’s it down. Down the street. Up the street where this furniture store over there was. Was Lou, the Jewish guy. Had a furniture store there for years and years. Now they’re going to convert it over. Apartments. Okay, that’s it. No, down further.
Mark Souther [00:13:43] Wow.
Lou Donitis [00:13:48] At 64, on 61st in Detroit. You come up the empty lot there where the church has Domingo St Helena’s in that empty lot there. That was Gallagher’s Bar. Now, the Gallagher’s is the ones that own Arrow Printing. Arrow Printing. Now that’s big. You know, like the bingo papers and stuff like that. Yeah. And the old man had served me in that bar. He seen me last summer on the end of West Boulevard. They got three mansions. He says, I know you. Who are you? He said, I’m Gallagher from Gallagher’s Bar. 64th and Detroit. I said, I used to serve you. You’re Donuts. I said, that’s me. He said, you used to get I a Budweiser and a shot of Imperial. I said, now you remember, that’s 1950. When I got off the bus, I had to go to the men’s room. I went in there. Now, the oldest place I’ve been here, I’ve been going is City Grill. No, I don’t drink no more. I go in there and have breakfast in the morning, cup of coffee, stuff like that. And then on the corner was William’s shoe store. He was a Jewish guy. I buy my shoes there, right on the corner where that tax thing is in there now. Across the street and next door, some man had a lingerie shop. Used to have it here next to Myers. And he moved over there. Across the street was Perry’s Restaurant. My buddy Perry. I used to eat in there. Next door was Tangier Bar. And then there’s a theater district all the way down. A friend of mine owned all that one time. Father John’s. Last thing they had in there before they turned, it was Wolf Envelope Company and then a machine shop. And down further, Jewel had a hot dog and hamburger joint. Half the bars closed. It was a lot of bars.
Mark Souther [00:15:50] Did it mostly attract people who worked in the factories around?
Lou Donitis [00:15:53] Yes. I was going to tell you there was no such thing as welfare around here. You couldn’t get a room around here. Chevy plant and the Ford plant used to bring people up from Tennessee, Kentucky, you know, loads of them, they needed to help. They used to stay on the third floor here. Four or five in a room with ships. And across the street, the old Detroiter, Mr. Gruttadoria and his wife owned that. They had a lot of sleeping rooms there. So this was.
Mark Souther [00:16:25] Who’s his name again?
Lou Donitis [00:16:26] Who?
Mark Souther [00:16:27] Gruttadoria.
Lou Donitis [00:16:28] Yeah, Gruttadoria. That’s an Italian name. And they own the Detroiter.
Mark Souther [00:16:32] Can you spell that for me?
Lou Donitis [00:16:34] G-R-U-T-T, adoria, D-O-R-I-A. Something like that. Gruttadoria. Now one of the sons changed it. Doria. But that’s a long story. But it’s not theirs now. Blanc City. Well, you know who owns it now? Own it? I don’t know. You know, Detroit, Shuri or whatever. And Pioneer Bank was always there because I’d been doing business there. Like my Social Security check, direct deposit. I’m still going there. And then Alfredo used to be a fancy restaurant where Mr. Heroes is. What’s that name? Where all the executives in all these factories used to go in at lunchtime. I can’t think of the name of it. Fancy place where the executives wanted to eat. Okay, and then that’s about the corner. No furniture store.
Mark Souther [00:17:28] What do you remember about St. Mary’s Romanian Church?
Lou Donitis [00:17:33] I go there to play bingo on Saturday and Sundays when I’m not working. I still work part time, but you don’t have to put. Oh, that’s in there. Doesn’t make any difference. I’m over 75. You mean St. Helena’s Church on 65th?
Mark Souther [00:17:51] That’s the one I mean.
Lou Donitis [00:17:52] Yes. Okay. That’s the first Catholic one in the United States. It’s Catholic, you know. Now, Mary’s the one. You’re talking to one down there that belongs to the arts.
Mark Souther [00:18:04] That’s actually the one I’m referring to. Not St Helena’s then? Interested in either one?
Lou Donitis [00:18:09] Well, the one is still operating. The other one is part of the theater complex now.
Mark Souther [00:18:15] I’m just wondering what you remember about it.
Lou Donitis [00:18:19] I never was a member of it because I was always on the other side of the street. And then where that grocery store where the meat market is used to be. Do your laundry. Yeah, yeah. And the other side was empty. How is that. But where Save A Lot is, used to be Kroger’s, you know. And up where Pick ’N Pay was on 65th and Franklin used to be Kaufmann’s Funeral Home on the corner. Then a private house. And then another German funeral home. Across the street with a high school was a gas station. On this side was a gas Station across the street. My buddy had a real estate in there.
Mark Souther [00:19:10] Let me skip to another topic that I heard you mention. In the beginning. You mentioned that you came here from New York. Did you come by bus or by train?
Lou Donitis [00:19:19] No, I was living in Erie, Pennsylvania.
Mark Souther: Oh, Erie, okay.
Lou Donitis: Visiting relatives. I used to come to Cleveland, Ohio, to go downtown because it was jazzy.
Mark Souther [00:19:32] What did you like to do? This is in. In the ’40s, late ’40s or early ’50s.
Lou Donitis [00:19:39] When I was living in Erie, it was ’48 and ’49.
Mark Souther [00:19:43] Right before you came in 1950.
Lou Donitis [00:19:45] Yes. And when I got laid off from my job in Erie, Pennsylvania, to get rid of my relatives, I decided to come here because this was a town where they had plenty of work. And at that time I was undecided what I wanted to do. I really wanted to carouse around.
Mark Souther [00:20:05] When you first came to Cleveland, what places did you go? Can you remember some of your experiences?
Lou Donitis [00:20:10] Yeah, well, East Ninth Street, Short Vincent.
Mark Souther [00:20:15] Okay, tell me more. Tell me about Short Vincent. I’ve read about it. I know that it’s sort of a red line.
Lou Donitis [00:20:21] They had Humphreys Barbecue there. Lakers had a saloon. There was a barber shop. I forget that name. And Cory had three bars going this way and going that way. And then they had the Gilsey Hotel across the street and the Roxy Theater, but that was jivey. And the place where you go in and play jukeboxes, pinballs, the Penny Arcade or something like that, that was downtown. Was jazzy. I belonged to a billiard club, 6th and Euclid, in the basement.
Mark Souther [00:21:02] Excuse me, say that again.
Lou Donitis [00:21:04] I belonged to a billiard club, played billiards in the basement. 6th and Euclid. Joe Tootuma.
Mark Souther [00:21:12] How is that spelled?
Lou Donitis [00:21:12] T-O-O-T-U-M-A. He was a Lebanese and American, you know, but he was my friend. And the Hippodrome Theater and all that stuff, you know, busy. Was like Times Square in New York, Because I remember Times Square, you know?
Mark Souther [00:21:33] Yes. What was like Times Square in New York?
Lou Donitis [00:21:36] Downtown Cleveland. Like Times Square. Like on holidays you get lucky. You walk down Euclid Avenue, had everything going like shoe stores. Eight or nine in a row, you know. Ninth and Euclid, where the national bank is on the corner. That was all, oh, Bond’s clothing store. Guy used to buy, you know. And then when you go down towards the square, they had the Embassy Theater. From the Embassy Theater all the way up to Bond’s were shoe stores. And then Hippodrome Theater, Richman Clothes. Across the street, another drugstore. It was busy downtown. I worked in the can’t think of the name of it. The Forum restaurant on Ninth Street across from the Cleveland Trust area. In that, because I worked for. I’ve done a lot of different jobs, you know, wind up being a painter, which I paint today, you know, but not too much, just a couple days. I got to work on a weekend in the factory because the women are working during the weekend. They don’t want the dust in their hair. Well, who wants dust in their hair? What kind of work did you do in your youth? [crosstalk] You did?
Mark Souther [00:22:59] For, for my grandfather. [cross-talk]
Lou Donitis [00:23:03] Furthest south I ever been was Camp Lee in Virginia in the Army.
Mark Souther [00:23:09] Tell me a little bit more about downtown Cleveland. Some things that you remember from the ’50s.
Lou Donitis [00:23:14] They had where the theater district is. They had RKO Keith’s and this one had three, four movies in row. It was busy. And they had Halle’s Department Store, Taylor’s, May Company, Higbee’s. It was busy town. The terminal Tower was a railroad station there. I used to get off the train right there and come up and hit 9th Street. Then go back to Erie, PA. When it was like a four-day holiday. I stayed in that hotel on the square around the corner there. What’s different name now? The one on the square. The Hotel Renaissance is. That’s the name of it now. Okay. In 19, say 49, I stayed on the fourth floor for $28 a night. That’s how high class I was. Now it’s 2, 300. Yeah, I remember. And then I go back to PA. You don’t know how to get away from the relatives. But this was. Downtown was jazzy, you know, and I’d done this. Done this, yes. Oh, yeah, that was my thing. But I always was civil, you know. I always had my money that I spent. I earned it.
Mark Souther [00:24:38] Did you come here alone or did you come?
Lou Donitis [00:24:40] Yes, I’m always. I’m alone to this day.
Mark Souther [00:24:43] Did you meet many people when you came here?
Lou Donitis [00:24:45] Oh, sure. Mainly girls. [laughs] Yeah. Oh, you mean famous people?
Mark Souther [00:24:55] Oh, no, no, just everyday people.
Lou Donitis [00:24:57] Oh yeah, over the years. They’re probably all dead. You know, I’m old.
Mark Souther [00:25:05] Tell me a little bit about the train ride to Cleveland. What train? What passenger train was it?
Lou Donitis [00:25:11] I forget, I forget. I got. Yeah, I think it was- Yeah. When Perlman was chairman of the board. And then they consolidated with Pennsylvania Railroad. Yeah, you’re right. I got it on State Avenue in Erie, Pennsylvania. I lived with my sister. In fact, I got three sisters there from the orphanage. Same orphanage. It didn’t take long to come here in downtown. I Could do my thing. And my relatives didn’t spy on me, you know, if I want to stay out all night, do my thing. A horse man, you know, bet the horses, look for women, drink, shoot pool. That’s, you know, my thing. I don’t know what your thing was in your day. Maybe you. Maybe you’ve done dishes for your family. So downtown has changed. There’s nothing downtown. Believe it. I take my bicycle, I got a three wheeler, no motor on it. I go, get away from the building here. You know what I mean? There’s nothing downtown. The Ratners, you know, they own a terminal tower, you know, I heard about. Yeah, everybody does. Well, they used to have just, like lumber yards. What do you call it? That’s how they started. You know, Sam Miller? You ever heard of him? Well, he married one of the Ratners. Did you know this? Yeah. Now, they was big in there. They still are big. They got the Terminal Tower. It’s a big complex, but there’s nothing doing, you know.
Mark Souther [00:26:57] Tell me about Mills Restaurant.
Lou Donitis [00:27:00] Mills. It was down further. It was a cafeteria. Up here’s the May Company here. And you go up Euclid, and it was over there by that Arcade, around in there someplace. Because I worked in the Forum cafeteria. I was the meat cook.
Mark Souther [00:27:22] What was the address for the Forum?
Lou Donitis [00:27:25] Across on Ninth Street from Euclid to Carnegie, in the middle of the street where the Rose Building is on that side. And we used to feed 5,000 people a day. You know what the girls called me? The meat man. I cooked the meat in the back. I had a butcher with the cows and, you know, grinders. Yeah, they don’t have nothing like that no more. You buy meat packaged, what, two years ago? Unless maybe in your place, in your cafeteria. And you teach history at the school?
Mark Souther [00:27:57] Yes.
Lou Donitis [00:27:58] Are you employed there or you’re visiting?
Mark Souther [00:28:01] I’m employed.
Lou Donitis [00:28:03] Yes? How did you pick this university here? And you’re from the South. They got beautiful restaurants. I mean, universities down South. Why did you pick up here in Cleveland?
Mark Souther [00:28:18] This is where the job was.
Lou Donitis [00:28:19] Oh, okay, okay, I understand. Okay. You didn’t get, like you knew somebody here and they-
Mark Souther [00:28:25] Oh, no, no. I just applied all over the country.
Lou Donitis [00:28:27] Oh, and this is the one. You. You must have studied the history of this one, didn’t you?
Mark Souther [00:28:35] A little.
Lou Donitis [00:28:35] I mean, about Cleveland.
Mark Souther [00:28:37] Oh, you mean beforehand?
Lou Donitis [00:28:38] Yes. You pick the locale how, what kind of people they have here and all that. Didn’t you do that? You got family?
Mark Souther [00:28:47] I have family in Akron.
Lou Donitis [00:28:49] Oh, yeah. And you commute, you go back?
Mark Souther [00:28:54] No, no, I live in Cleveland Heights.
Lou Donitis [00:28:56] Oh, okay. I know Cleveland Heights. Yeah, that’s a diverse neighborhood there. Like here.
Mark Souther [00:29:04] What do you remember about the Blue Boar?
Lou Donitis [00:29:07] I heard of it. I never was in it. It wasn’t my style. I was a working man. I’ve heard of it. I even forget where it was. Mention where it was. Maybe I remember.
Mark Souther [00:29:17] I think it was on Euclid Avenue, but I don’t remember what block.
Lou Donitis [00:29:19] Oh, they had a lot of places. They had Crosstown bar, 5050 Euclid. I used to go in there. They had The Alhambra, around 19 and a half and Euclid. And her other side where the Keith Building is. There’s Keith Building there. And that TV station was across the street. It’s not there no more. And 105th and Euclid was a busy place. They had Doan’s Corners Bar. They had the High Low Bar. They had a theater there. Clark’s Coffee. That’s the thing, you should mark it down. Clark’s Coffee was big. And even in Erie, Penn. They had a Clark restaurant on the corner there. 105th, but that’s all. That’s nothing there. Nothing on 55th, nothing. No place except Cleveland State. I done some work for the Jewish Federation. That’s the way I know that neighborhood. I used to hang around there before when it was Fenn College. That one billionaire still there. That was the college engineering though, wasn’t it? Yeah. See, but there’s nothing like that no more. Except for Cleveland. You know, I worked at Cleveland Clinic before it was big. And I was in the X-ray department in the old building. Just in the winter until I go back painting instead of taking unemployment. I never could understand as unemployment. Get paid for doing nothing. I could. I’m what you call ultra-right conservative. I assume you’re liberal.
Mark Souther [00:31:16] Why would you assume that?
Lou Donitis [00:31:17] Because most college professors are. Unless you go to Utah State, Stanford. Most of them are ultra liberals and they all get the taxpayers’ money. Never underestimate your opponent. I took the job just in the winter for something to do. And they had x-rays there for men and women. I was in the men’s section and when the big shot come in, I take the paper and I tell them to sit down. About nine or 10 customers a day, but all big shots. So I put the priest or the rabbi up on top of the list and go down like executives of like the Glidden Corporation, Sherwin-Williams, Warner and Swasey, something like that. And these guys was rich, but the company paid for the [inaudible]. You know, they put that white stuff, the nurses done that. But I. You know. But before, the Cleveland Clinic was big. You know what I mean? Now just a city. Gigantic. I think Lerner took it over and then he died. You know who the chief is there? Cosgrove. You know, never heard Cosgrove. Dr. Cosgrove. Such a big place. He got 11, 12,000 working there. Have you visited in that area?
Mark Souther [00:32:53] I’ve driven there, a number of times.
Lou Donitis [00:32:56] You’ve been in. Oh, that’s a big place. That’s the biggest employee in the state. In the Cuyahoga County. Like the Ford plant, Chevy plant. Well, they’re going to go out anyway, you know, manufacture. You want to know about all the manufacturing plants here? I tell you.
Mark Souther [00:33:15] Tell me about the ones in the Detroit Shoreline area.
Lou Donitis [00:33:18] I’m gonna- I was waiting for you. Where they’re building the condominiums, Eveready Battery, they had 900 people working there. And I used to know a lot of them. I forget. But they had a bar, Cheerios Bar, on Detroit. And up past the church on this side, a little on the corner there. Then they had [inaudible] Acme down the end of 65th on that side. The factory’s still there. And then they had, let me see. Oh, Monarch Aluminum up on Detroit. You heard of that? They had 8, 900 working there. Everybody worked for a living then. No, it wasn’t socialism.
Mark Souther [00:34:08] What about the American Greetings plant?
Lou Donitis [00:34:12] Oh, that’s what was on Lake. And the old man, the Jewish guy, come from Poland in a horse and buggy. I can’t think if it’s [inaudible] or some kind of Jewish name. But the family, the sons changed it. Steel or something. That’s where they got started. The buildings are still there, you know, because I go down there on my way on my bike to go to Edgewater. And they had a factory in there. Baker Rolling, the Tow Motors. That factory stayed. But I don’t know what’s in there because I don’t go over that way. That was big. American Greetings. It started right there. The guy used to go door to door. Schicktenstein [Saperstein]. I can’t think of the name. Something like that. You know, the old man, horse and buggy and go house to house and give you post greeting cards. And look at today. Now this, it’s out there in Brooklyn. This is a big plant. American Greetings. I had Mr. Weiss as chairman of the board. If I don’t, I study a little manufacturing stuff, business. And you teach students lots of- And what do they- What they want to be when you teach them. Professors of history?
Mark Souther [00:35:45] Almost anything you can imagine.
Lou Donitis [00:35:48] No, they come. Why do they take your course?
Mark Souther [00:35:51] Just a variety of reasons. Sometimes if they’re history majors, sometimes they’re taking core curriculum-
Lou Donitis [00:35:57] just because they need so many points to graduate anyway. Some use that as a filler?
Mark Souther [00:36:02] Sometimes.
Lou Donitis [00:36:03] Okay. Okay. That’s what’s- There’s nothing out of that.
Mark Souther [00:36:06] What about- Tell me about your first memory of going that area around. Did you go to the area much around the East 55th and Euclid? You mentioned that briefly about one restaurant, I believe.
Lou Donitis [00:36:18] Crosstown Bar. Across the Street. Across the- Okay. Across the street was a big Catholic church and school and everything. St. Agnes, I think. It was big. But that was white. No, no, it was 55th and Detroit. I mean, 55th and Euclid. No. Yeah, 55th was a railroad station there. You know, Warner and Swasey factory. That was big. Then there’s two Germans making machines, elites and stuff like that. Crosstown. Yeah. And then 105th. I used to hang there. You know, that was just like main street, almost. Only way, you know.
Mark Souther [00:37:06] What kind of reputation. Did I know that the East 55th and Euclid area was a big or a fairly big little downtown kind of area?
Lou Donitis [00:37:15] Yes.
Mark Souther [00:37:15] Retail and that sort of thing. How would you compare it? Or contrast it with East 105th and Doan’s Corner.
Lou Donitis [00:37:23] Oh, 105th was bigger. It was way bigger than 55th. That church wasn’t there in the school. There was not much in that neighborhood. Because I never went off the beaten path either. You know what I mean? I used to take the bus there and then go up 150, then go to work. I work a second shift at Glidden Paint Company.
Mark Souther [00:37:45] Where was Glidden located?
Lou Donitis [00:37:47] Berea Road and Madison. In fact, that’s where they closed the plant down. That’s the last job I had as a factory worker, as a peasant, put it that way, a serf. And then in the meantime, I was a painter. Anyway, I liked that job. And they closed it down. I got an Erie, PA. I got laid off from that job. The roofing company. Ruberoid Roofing.
Mark Souther [00:38:18] When did the Short Vincent area start to change, start to go downhill?
Lou Donitis [00:38:23] I suppose when all the stores started- I’ll tell you what did it. Suburb shopping centers, period. That’s it right there. Now, the people got at it away from this people. And I got away from the other people. And the Parma was settled by Polish Slavish and Croatian people from the east side. To get away from the colored people coming up south here. Well, that’s all over America. And maybe they got away from me, too. This neighborhood was on this side of the street all the way down to the lake. It was pure Italians.
Mark Souther [00:39:04] Where exactly? Say that again.
Lou Donitis [00:39:06] Right here. From 65th up to 73rd. Like down to the lake was all Italians. You don’t dare walk down there. You being a Southerner. I looked like one and I got- They knew me, see. And then they put like welfare people in. Mix something, mix that or mix that, and then pretty soon the whole street is- And that’s done it all over.
Mark Souther [00:39:39] So did the Italians and Appalachians- [crosstalk]
Lou Donitis [00:39:41] They all died out. [crosstalk] Nobody got along with the Italians, you had to be Italian, period. Just like you go down 25th and Detroit, you had to be Irish. You had- Go over Slavic Village, you had to be Slavic people. Well, that was all over America.
Mark Souther [00:40:01] So you didn’t see a lot of mixing?
Lou Donitis [00:40:03] Not here at the beginning, no way. Until they brought in the welfare stuff and closed all the factories. Now there’s hardly anybody that works for a living unless they got a job like you got executives here. Over here, there’s no more factories. No more. What business is here? Like a barbershop, maybe restaurant. That’s no more. Like before. You know how many people work in all these factories? What, 30, 40, 50,000. Everybody went to work with a lunch bucket, you know, had a backyard. Take the family. You’re Catholic, you went to Mount Carmel. If you’re something else, you went to the west over there. Where is Gallagher School now? Well, that Gallagher is the same name as Arrow Printing. You know, Gallagher is a big- You know, even got Gallagher’s down south. You know, Irish. Before the Civil War, Irish fought, Irish against Irish. You studied that in college, didn’t you? Yeah, I like that. Pickett’s Charge, but he wasn’t too good. But he was a hero in the Mexican War. A foolish thing. They give him the order. Lee give him the order. And they want to kill all his people. The Yanks had everything there. That Chamberlain guy from Maine, he stopped it, right? Do you know about this stuff? See, you want to talk about history. Ancient peoples. Now we go into this. I could tell you probably more than you know. That’s what I thought you was going to ask me about.
Mark Souther [00:41:39] Oh, no, no. I’m more interested today in asking you about the neighborhood.
Lou Donitis [00:41:42] Yeah, well, I told you.
Mark Souther [00:41:44] You told me a lot.
Lou Donitis [00:41:46] I could tell you. Let me see. There’s nothing. Oh, up there where the dollar store is, that was Fisher Brothers grocery store, you know. You go in there, Fisher’s, you know, and then Kroger. No, they didn’t get. What do you got?
Mark Souther [00:42:09] Do you remember any public markets other than West Side Market?
Lou Donitis [00:42:14] That’s the one. I know west side Market. I still go there. I, like go down there. I get on my bike in the summer, I go down there.
Mark Souther [00:42:22] How has that changed since 1950?
Lou Donitis [00:42:24] It’s about the same, only it’s different type of people.
Mark Souther [00:42:28] How So?
Lou Donitis [00:42:29] Well, a lot of people, like Arabs, whatever, you know. And it’s not two original people, like maybe one or two. That their mother and father, their fathers and fathers before them, was there. There’s not too many of that. They all died out. Like I’m going to die out, you know.
Mark Souther [00:42:47] Was the change gradual?
Lou Donitis [00:42:50] No, over the years, 25th Street was pretty jazzy. One time, you know, they had Fries and Shuele. They had Gaylord’s, Super Tiger’s. Everything was gone now. Everything is empty now. They forced housings in there and stuff like that now, you know. But West Side Market, you know, you go there Friday afternoon, you’d be surprised. It’s like New York, but it’s where you want to go. You get decent food there. See? You go in the grocery store on your neighborhood. It’s wrapped up in a package with a date on it. But they changed the date. What? Just for 10 years. And then after that they drove away. Come on. Used to go in the Butcher 69th and Detroit. You had an Italian butcher store there. A butcher shop with a woman butcher. You go in there and out comes the cow with the knife. What do you want, Donuts? You don’t get that no more. You go in the store, it’s wrapped up, used before a certain date, you know, they got the dope in it. It comes from Montana. No more. Ship the cows alive over here on the stockyards. They don’t do that no more. That and sheep used to be over there. Thousands of them come in the railroad car right there. I used to watch. They put the gate and whammo them cows across. My buddy Fritz Bauer was the guy that hit him in the head. He died. German guy from Germany, lived over in the Detroiter there. It was my friend, you know, he died from the drinking. He had to be drunk before he could slam that hammer, sledgehammer, one after another. How many cows, you know, they don’t do that no more. That’s all dead up there. See, now, they had 10 different meat factories in there. You know, this meat that meat this. Curse you. This, that. Curse you, this Swift Foods, Swift Meat. About 8, 900. Worked up there.
Mark Souther [00:44:57] Where was that located? Near the Stockyards area?
Lou Donitis [00:45:00] No, no. Up in between, you know, between Clark and Storer and Denison in there where the Kmart supermarket is there. That was all alive all around there. Big, you know, gigantic. You know. What’s there now? Scrapyard. You take some scrap and Kmart. What’s that? Nothing. You know, they got the lease. And the lease is gone and then what’s going to be there? This is not like it used to be. The only thing about that area, in the summertime you get, you know, from the cows and the sheep, you know, and the slaughtering. It used to get pretty bad there. Never bothered me, in fact, made me hungry.
Mark Souther [00:45:48] Made you what?
Lou Donitis [00:45:49] The stink made me hungry. Who’s going to hear this? Just you? Tell you about the theater here. Over here. Put that on. It used to be. What’s the name of it?
Mark Souther [00:46:08] The Capitol Theater.
Lou Donitis [00:46:10] That’s it.
Mark Souther [00:46:10] Okay.
Lou Donitis [00:46:11] Now, I used to go in there with my girlfriends. 10 cents, 12 cents or something like that. And then go in that drugstore and get the malteds. Now, the last movie was there. I was the assistant for the German guy, had German films. Mr. Snyder from Germany. I was his assistant. You know, when they come in, in the parking lot, I spoke a little bit German. Not much, you know. And after that, they closed it. Now they’re going to. I heard they’re going to get the money and fix it up again like that theaters across the street. There was a dump over there when my buddy owned it, you know. But that was a big theater there. But not like the ones in New York, you know. And that was there. And the bars, that’s all there was in this neighborhood, you know what I mean? And this building here was busy, you know. In fact, up through here was a pretty busy area, you know, because if you collected all the people that rented the rooms in these two buildings was going a couple hundred, you know, they all had to eat. They all had to buy something. They all had a drink. Mainly all us working guys, we, you know, have a beer, you know, you get true work. You have a beer. You’d never done that. I bet you do. You ever really work? You said you was a painter.
Mark Souther [00:47:43] Oh, just in the summer.
Lou Donitis [00:47:45] Yeah.
Mark Souther [00:47:46] Never that much.
Lou Donitis [00:47:49] The day I was 16, I got my Social Security number and went to work and got rid of my foster mother. I got a room. I promised the man, you give me a job, loan me $20 to get a room, and I promise you I work for you a year, no matter how much I’m going to disagree with you. I kept my promise, but when the year was up, I went and got a job in a grocery store. That’s part of my background going on there. And all my life, you know, pulled around. But what else around this neighborhood you got about it all, you know, there’s nothing here no more. Everybody. Everybody’s dead. There are no factories here in my building here where I live. It’s mostly people that something. Put it this way, something is the matter with them. Misfortunes. Maybe they’re born that way, maybe they’re not born that way. I think I’m the only one on the pension. The rest is on helping the Social Security system. Like you got diabetes, where they got this. Or maybe somebody was on the pill stuff or maybe somebody was on the booze stuff. But I don’t know of anybody myself. But I imagine most people was born with something. So the government, which is. I go along with that. You have to put them in some place. They used to have these institutions which was bad for people, really. It was like being in jail. You ever been in jail? You buggered? No, because I was in an orphanage. I know what it is. But I had it nice in an orphanage because it was during the Depression. And the Catholics. I was raised to Catholics. So I know about being strict. Work, don’t take nothing for free in America. And then the Catholic Church in America, they don’t have that in school no more. Your Tulane and the other universities, they’re affiliated with a Catholic with a religious outfit or are they just state schools? Both of them you went to are state schools?
Mark Souther [00:50:16] No, neither one.
Lou Donitis [00:50:18] Okay, private.
Mark Souther [00:50:19] Private.
Lou Donitis [00:50:21] But support from the state though, right?
Mark Souther [00:50:25] No, none.
Lou Donitis [00:50:26] Oh, that’s the kind of colleges I like. So you had to get a scholarship or really pay your way in this one. I admire you. That’s, you’re a man. I don’t care for there’s free. Everything free. And they teach them sports and more sports and they come out. You’re doing something for society. Have ever anybody tell you that? See, I tell you. I know.
Mark Souther [00:50:53] It’S been a pleasure talking with you today. I’m going to stop and interview now because we’re running out of time.
Lou Donitis [00:50:59] Yes, it’s-
Mark Souther [00:51:00] [inaudible] at 6:00 for a meeting.
Lou Donti [00:51:03] That’s okay. In here? They’re over there. They’re over there. A big meeting too. Yeah.
Mark Souther [00:51:10] This has been an interview with Lou-
Lou Donitis [00:51:13] Donuts. Just say Donuts. They know who I am!
Mark Souther [00:51:15] Lou Donuts at the Detroit Shoreway CDO at the Gordon Square Arcade. Today is February 9, 2006, and I’m Mark Souther.
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